The Book Deal
Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.
The Book Deal
Supercharged brains and publishing advice with author and Publisher Dani Vee
Tina Strachan welcomes multi-published author, podcast host, and publisher Dani Vee to discuss her journey and the release of her two new books, 'My Pet Croc' and 'My Supercharged ADHD Brain.' Dani dives into the inspiration behind her books, her personal ADHD experience, and the dynamics of writing humorous kids' books. The episode also highlights tips for aspiring writers and debut authors, focusing on market awareness, honing one's craft, and building a supportive community. Additionally, Carla Salmon introduces her upcoming teen crime mystery 'We Saw What You Started,' out now.
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:43 Introducing Dani Vee: Author and Publisher
01:52 Discussing 'My Pet Croc'
05:30 Exploring 'My Supercharged ADHD Brain'
12:55 Carla Salmon's Upcoming Book
14:42 ADHD in Writers: Tips and Experiences
18:18 The Power of Deadlines and Competition
19:00 Sleep Patterns and Productivity
21:20 Using Alarms to Stay on Track
22:31 Creating a Productive Writing Environment
23:39 Advice for Aspiring Authors
25:34 The Importance of Honing Your Craft
31:50 Tips for Debut Authors
34:48 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books. No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
Madeleine Cleary:The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
Tina Strachan:Hi, it's Tina Strachan here, and in this episode of the Book Deal Podcast, I am interviewing Danny Vee. Many of you would know of Danny because not only is she an author of children's books, including picture books and junior fiction, but she's also a publisher at Larrikin House. I. In this interview, we discussed Danny's most recent book, my Supercharged, A DHD Brain, and why it's important for books to represent both sides of the A DHD experience. We share our tips for getting the most out of our own supercharged brains when writing and Dani also shares her publishing advice for debut and aspiring authors. There's something for everyone in this episode, and I hope you enjoy. Dani Vee, welcome to the Book Deal podcast.
Dani Vee:Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
Tina Strachan:Oh, I have been so looking forward to chatting to you on the pod because I know you have so much advice to and to share, and tips to share with our listeners.'Cause not only are you a multi published author, uh, but you are also, the Podcast host of the incredibly popular Words and Nerds podcast, and a publisher, at Larrikin House publishers as well.
Dani Vee:Yeah, I've actually become now the publisher at Larrikin House. So, um, it's just, I think it's just that a DHD brain having lots of fingers in all the pies.
Tina Strachan:I hear you with the A-D-A-D-H-D brain just, uh, trying to fit as much in as possible, right?
Dani Vee:Yeah. And it's a hyper focus as well. You know, like books and writing has been something that I've always loved as an English teacher before I was, you know, writing and podcasting. And so that's just always something that I've loved. And, you know, when your brain loves that, it just wants to do. All the pieces of it. So
Tina Strachan:a hundred percent and wants to put it, um, ahead of everything else sometimes, but firstly, and I've, I've got lots of questions about that. Um, but firstly, congratulations on your two new books that have come out recently. My Pet Croc and My Supercharged, A DHD Brain. Can you tell us a little bit about them? Can we start with my pet Croc?
Dani Vee:Yeah, absolutely. Uh, my second J Ffic and it was an idea that when I was talking, um, you know, about ideas of what to write next, my publisher's, like what would happen if a kid had a pet Croc. And I'm like, I don't know what would happen. I, I might try and find out. And unlike ri, which was my first jfi, which was just so impossible to write, probably because I was so new at it. This one just, I don't wanna say it was easy'cause it's never easy, but it just sort of flowed. The characters came to me and I was like, well, what would happen? And because I really like playing with the opposites,'cause I like trying to write into humor. So I was like, well you expect the croc to be vicious and that to be dangerous. But what if the croc was as harmless and cute as a puppy? You know what would happen then?'cause my kids used to just watch the Dangerous Animals documentaries over and over again. I was like, well, what if the most dangerous animals on Earth. All became as harmless as kittens and puppies. And then I thought, well then what would that do to the ecosystem? Because even though that sounds great, you know, brown snakes are no longer dangerous. There's a whole chain of events that happen. So I started doing some research, and then I thought of my character. Felix, and he's been dumped with his crocodile from his aunt, who's this eccentric scientist and his best friend, autumn Black. And then I had a little bit of fun with a villain. So I used to be an English teacher, and I remember having a classroom full of these beautiful Caitlins and they were all spelt differently. And I was trying to remember who was who. And you know, it was one of those things that I was, I wondered where that came from. It's really stressing how to remember who these exact people were in their work, et. And I thought, well, what would happen if the villains, and, and don't get me wrong, these girls in the class were beautiful. But I thought, well, what would happen if we had villains all had the same name, Caitlyn, but spelled differently? And, um, they just got worse and worse as the spelling became more complicated. And I just had a lot of fun with that, um, that sort of premise of having villains.'cause I think in kids' books, in particularly humorous books, you want villains that are also fun. Like you don't want villains that you're too scared of. You want villains that are a little bit silly and a little bit like caricatures. And so kids can laugh at them rather than be afraid of them.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I have read something, uh, a little while ago.'cause my youngest, he, um, always associated with the villain in books and movies and things. He always wanted to be the villain. And I remember, you know, as a mom, you know, you haven't done this before. And it's like, there's something wrong with my kid that just wants to always but it, but when you look into it and you read into it, apparently it's because, um, they, they're just more exciting.
Dani Vee:They're often more interesting, you know, either they're funny or they've got a backstory or mm-hmm. Antagonist of their own story. So yeah, they're, they're, I've always been intrigued by villains as well. All those people who are really ambiguous, because I think that's generally what humans are. Yeah. Maybe not as much as, you know, the villains that we see. Mm-hmm. You know, we're all a bit of everything.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. And they have power. And that's, you know, for a kid, you know, that's, that's pretty cool to associate with that. So, um, so that's, yeah, that's a hilarious concept and um, I'm sure kids are going to love it. And what was the age group for that one? So junior fiction,
Dani Vee:pretty fiction, probably up to 12 years old, so Oh yeah. So probably uh, year four to year six. But then I went to a school and all the year twos were buying it as well, so whether they were reading or getting their parents reading. So it covers quite a lot of primary school'cause the premise is fun, you know? Mm-hmm
Tina Strachan:Hmm. I'm sure the parents love reading it to the kids as well. That's an important thing when you're writing a book. It's gotta be, if the parents are possibly gonna read it, make sure it's fun for them too. That's right. Now, um, my supercharged A DHD brain as well, that's just come out very recently also. Um. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What's the, the age group for that one? And, and tell us a bit about the book.
Dani Vee:That's a picture book, so you're three to sort of eight years old, but I actually think, and I used to teach picture books even to year 12 Kids for Visual Literacy. And I think this book, it kind of goes across ages because it's about, I. Our brains. And I think anyone who knows anyone who has a DHD, whether it's your children or your children's friends or some relative or whatever, which, and I think we all do because, you know, diagnosis are going up. It's really just interesting to be able to put yourself in the shoes of a person with a DHD. Now, I was diagnosed pretty late, so only a couple of years ago, and then I started doing a lot of research and knowing that it's quite, um, hereditary. So then I started looking at my daughter. I started looking at my. Dad, my cousin's diagnosed. I'm like, oh, this all makes sense. Mm-hmm. But I think, um, as a kid and as an an adult, I've just always felt a little bit left of center of some of my friends. I've just felt like the odd one out, and I was never sure what that meant. And then as I got older, you know, teachers or whoever would sort of throw things at you, whether they were criticisms or comments like, oh, you're too loud, you're too much, you're too distracted, you're too this. You're too that. And, you know, I've gotten a pretty good self-confidence, but it's still chew away at that, you know, and you think, oh, am I annoying? Am I too much? Am I too talkative? Am I, am I, am I. And then when I was diagnosed with A DHD, my cousin said, you might feel a bit of grief because you found out so late. But I actually felt relief, not grief. I was like, oh, like thank goodness I've now got something to make me understand my brain. I don't have to feel bad about it. I don't have to take on all those things as insults. That's just how my brain is wired. And I thought, how amazing would it be for a kid to have a book like that? Who was like me, um, and go, oh, I'm not, you know, there's nothing wrong with me. It's just my brain and that's the way I'm wired. And so we all know the hard bits of A DHD. We hear that a lot on the, you know, mainstream media. And so I said, I pitched well, what if we celebrated the A DHD brain? We know that it's hard. Like I get the, you know, deep anxiety. And the overstimulation of A DHD. But it also allows me, as we mentioned earlier, to do a lot to hyperfocus on the things that I love. It, you know, makes me, um, adventurous and a little bit risk taking. And I don't think you can write books or have businesses or do cool things if you don't sometimes take risks. Mm-hmm. And so. I was like, well, let's just, I didn't push the, the challenges aside, they're still in there, but they're a lot smaller than the celebrations.'cause why not celebrate a brain that's a bit different? So it's a really special book, um, because it's, you know, I wish I had it as a kid and it's directly from the experiences my brain.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Yeah. So you're the perfect person to write it clearly. And it's, um, so that, so it was important for you to write this book for kids because? Like you said, you felt like you would've really appreciated that. And, and, and like you just said, lots of kids and more kids now are getting diagnosed with it. We know so much more about it. I think it's, um, starting to become, it had a real stigma even for the kids, just knowing with my kids growing up, you know, talking like having classmates and stuff and there was a stigma for quite a while, but now I think it's. Kids are so used to kids, like they, they have everything in the classrooms from all different, you know, angles. And it's not, it's definitely not a hundred percent okay. Like there's still a stigma, but they are just so.
Dani Vee:But it's not just about the A DHD kid understanding their brain. It's about everyone else in the class understanding that, oh, we're all a bit different, and that's okay, you know? Mm-hmm. That's okay. That we're all a bit different. We can celebrate all of our differences. And you know, James, who owns Z House, is also diagnosed with A DHD quite late as well. It was about the similar time, and then I start, I pitched this idea. I was like, yes, celebrate it. That's a great idea. And he's right into making sure that we engage and celebrate kids. It's been the whole premise of Larrikin House and then. After I'd written like a zero draft. He's like, and what about this and what about this? And we should do this and what about this? And I feel this. And I'm like, oh, I think you actually should have your name on the front too. Like if you've given way too many ideas for this not to be your book and your experience as well.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Great collaboration. Can't hurt having from different, um, sides. And also, you know, the male female differences with A DHD as well, isn't it? Like they've, they, they think there's a lot of that, so that's really important.
Dani Vee:We've been asked to, because we did, we deliberately put a girl, even though it's every kid's experience, we, we deliberately had a female protagonist because traditionally women have been underdiagnosed in this area because it's been a, a boy, a naughty boy's disease. And I'm using the rabbit ears people, because I don't believe in the naughty boy thing. It's just their brains. Um, and so we are going to,'cause it's been really popular, this book and it, you know, I think we sold. More than we had anticipated, which is a good problem to have. Um, we are working on one that's also sort of trying to dispel that myth of the naughty A DHD boy and trying to get a bit more understanding of that kid. So I've been doing a bit of research and that I was a teacher for 17 years, and so just trying to unpack that and not just dismissing them as naughty boys. They just need stimulation. They, you know, what do they need, um, you know, to help them function during day.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Yeah, that'll be great. And even for,'cause it's such a, it'll be such a useful tool, this book. And then even just having, I imagine if it's about a boy with a boy on the front, like the boys are just gonna pick that up more, aren't they, then? So it's important for them as well. Um, no, it's a really important book, Dani. Congratulations to you both. So now you put your supercharge brain to very good use with your podcast and your writing and your publishing. Um, and you're a mom. As well. There's a lot going on. And so it does sound too, you know, and I love how you're celebrating the, um, positives of an A DH ADHD brain as well in these books. And it's funny, I actually had a friend once. Say to me when she found out that I had a DHD, that she was like, oh gosh, I'm so relieved because you do so much. And to her, she was just like, I feel like you're so productive and you do all these things. And I, I just would be like, oh, well how does she get that stuff done and compare herself? She's like, oh, no, no. You've got a DH adhd. This is great. I can just like, I can stop
Dani Vee:comparing myself. The number one question I have gotten asked. Every time I go anywhere, you know, writer's conferences or wherever, is how do you do so much? And I don't like to think about it because it kind of makes me feel a bit stressed. Like, oh, how do I do it? Oh, is that why I'm stressed? Oh, I don't know. And so finally I have the answer.
Tina Strachan:Yeah.
Dani Vee:Yeah.
Tina Strachan:No, that's great. Um, and I mean, but it's absolutely different for everyone. And there is that flip side to it, you know, like, um, I have always feeling like, like you're on and, and that sort of thing, um, which is important for people. And so there's negatives and positives as everyone does. Even non A DHD brains. Yeah, it's, but we know.
Dani Vee:About the negatives for so long.'cause I feel like that's been the focus, which, you know, it needs to be for people to understand, but you know, well, you know, it also helps us do this, that, and that. So let's have a bit of a different conversation about a DH ADHD as well.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm.
Dani Vee:No, it's great.
Carla Salmon:Hi, I am Carla Salmon, author of, we Saw What You Started, which will be published by Pam McMillan on the 1st of July, 2025. We saw what you started as a teen crime mystery perfect for 11 to 15-year-old readers. It follows New Boy Otto, a Californian surfer who arrives in a small, insta worthy coastal town in Australia and joins a local surf lifesaving club hoping to fit in and find some friends. Unfortunately, this has made much more challenging for Otto when he's blamed for a string of suspicious fires that damage local businesses. It's only local girl Millie, the club surf lifesaving champion who thinks maybe Otto is innocent because Millie knows that small town rumors aren't always true together. They have to work out if they can trust each other and find out who is actually responsible for the crimes. I've written, we saw what you started specifically for young teens, exploring themes that are relevant to their everyday lives, like what they're willing to do to keep their friendships, the competitive vibe that often exists in groups, meeting parent expectations or more likely pushing boundaries, juggling part-time jobs, and of course, a first crush or two. The book also poses the question, is it ever okay to do the wrong thing for the right reasons? I really hope teens hear their own voices in Otto and Millie's. Dual points of view and enjoy a little mischief and fun during lots of fast-paced action as the characters ride dirt bikes on beach roads, sneak out for night swims and try to avoid trouble at the skate park. The story is very much inspired by some of my favorite coastal towns and childhood memories, and I can't wait for you to read it. Thanks so much for your support.
Tina Strachan:I'm sure we've got lots of listeners with a DHD or maybe they're listening to this and going, oh, maybe, maybe I have a DH adhd.'cause that's where I actually first ever thought that was from a writing podcast that I listened to about 10 years ago. And the host, she had just been diagnosed with a DH adhd and some of the things that she was saying, I was like. Oh gosh, that's, that sounds like me. And just put that little thought in my mind. And that's, you know, it probably took, you know, another five years for, for
Dani Vee:anything to come of it. More than 20 years. I was diagnosed with an anxiety and panic disorder and anxiety meds made me about 50 times more anxious. And I was like, well, why don't they work on my brain? And no one thought to say, maybe you have a DHD. It was, again, something that I. You know, research and thought, oh, this sounds like me. You know, my cousin and another friend said, do you think you have a DHD? So, you know, I, I do think, and I'm a bit been talking about this a bit lately, if you follow me, but I think in a lot of ways the medical profession have let women down in a lot of ways. You know, whether it comes to menstruation or our reproductive organs or A DHD, it's a bit sort of like, suck it up. Mentality. And I'm not saying that's all medical professions, obviously not. I've had some brilliant doctors, but I've also had, you know, experiences where I've been dismissed or misdiagnosed. And I think, you know, part of that was also advocating for ourselves. We know our bodies and our brains better than anyone. We wake up to them every day. So I think as women, until some things start to really change, I think we need to make sure we advocate very deeply for ourselves and for our daughters.
Tina Strachan:Yeah, that's important. That's a really good message. So for those, writers, I'm sure there's probably lots of writers with a DHD somehow, especially if you're someone who's very prolific in getting words down. It's, it could be you. Or on the flip side to it as well, there's the, um, distraction that can come from it. So do you, so I thought we'd offer some tips today, Dani. I know, I know some, some, I have some tips that I guess help me with it. Um, certainly once I had been diagnosed, like you said, it was a relief and it almost made things better kind of straight away because I was like, oh, I just know that I need to do this now. Instead of just trying to be like, well, that person doesn't have to write a thousand things on their list every day. I'm not that person. I'm somebody different. It helps me. And, and that's, and that's been incredibly helpful just in that knowledge. So, um, do you have any tips, Dani, for, writers who, are, are trying to get the words down and trying to focus and with, uh, an A DHD brain?
Dani Vee:I'm probably going to be very disappointing right now because I get thoroughly distracted and I put myself on a time-lapse the other day when I had the data right, and I thought, I'm just gonna see what I actually do. And it was so funny because I would write, I'd get up and make a tea, I'd write, I'd look at my phone, I'd write, I'd painted my nails like. I just important, when I looked back at it, I went, wow, how do I get anything done? So what really works for me is a little short, sharp bursts because I'm like, okay, I've got 20 minutes to write, go, and I know those 20 minutes are precious. When I have a day, I just squander it. Really? Mm-hmm. Um, I was wondering why I was really good at riding on the plane and in the airports. It's because I don't have anything else to do, but. The laptop in front of me. I don't have wifi and I don't, you know, have anything else that I can do. I can't just get up and get a snack. So I think where I write in a cafe is good for me as well, because you're there with purpose and you're there with a time constraint. Mm-hmm. Oh, please. For the love of God, give me a deadline. If you just tell me that I've got. Whenever to write it, you'll get it. Never. So deadlines really work for me. Competition works. When we did nano rmo and we were competing sort of with each other but ourselves, but every week we'd sort of say how many words we'd each written each week. That was a real motivator because I needed to get to the, you know, the point that we all wanted to get to and, you know, you kind of wanted to beat your mates, so that really helped. Um, but I, yeah, so for me. I, I like to ride in the cracks of time because I think 20 minutes for me is a lot more productive than two hours because like I said, I'll just waste it. Mm-hmm. Um, and making, and even if like, I try and put self-imposed deadlines in, but they're not as. Significant is when someone says, you need to give me this. By this time, I don't know if you're the same. I don't sleep a lot. I try and sleep, but I just, my brain just won't, it doesn't matter what time I go to bed. My brain will wake up six hours later and go, we're awake. Here's 4,000 ideas for you today. Um, so it doesn't matter if I go to bed at 10 or 12, and so I've just started going to bed. Well, not started. I've done this for a long time, about 11 or 12.'cause I don't wanna be waking up at four. Mm-hmm. Thank you, Brian. Even on the weekend, I try and make the room really, really dark and all of that. Mm-hmm. And I managed to sleep until eight 30 on Sunday morning. But I did go to bed at one 30 and I was still very proud of myself. I'm like, seven hours, look at me. So, I don't know. I think with, when you have a DHD, sometimes you have more hours in the day because you don't sleep a lot, but then you've got less'cause you're just distracted.
Tina Strachan:Yep. Yes. Not as productive maybe. Yeah, no. Um. Look great by the way, so that was worth it. They were really good tips and I think they're all, they'll be all huge, hugely beneficial. Um, but you know, some people probably wish that they didn't sleep as much. Some people wish that they could only sleep, you know, six hours. I used to always think that I wish I could just sleep less and kind of get more, kind of squeeze more into my day. But, um. No, I, I totally agree and I agree with you about the holiday thing. If we go, we've got a caravan and we go away, caravan, and I get so much writing done on holidays just because I'll get up early before the kids and I'll sit outside. Like, we don't take, you know, if normally at home I feel like, okay, maybe I've gotta do some exercise and stuff like that. I can still do exercise on holidays, but you know. No one really wants to do that. So I, you know, I just feel like I just get, I just sit in my little cave and I just write until the kids get up. And, um, normally I have all these other things that we need to do, you know, even just like getting ready for school or going to work, but you kind of tracked, so it's great. So I get lots done there, so I completely agree with you on that one. But my other tips at Work Timer, like you said, is great. Um, when I first started getting back into writing a one hour timer, that was that I, I would set a one hour timer when I had a little kid and I was, you know, would like a baby putting them down for a nap. I'd be like, set your alarm for one hour, get it done. I just felt like I could tick the box, you know? Um. Uh, but setting alarms, a thousand alarms, because I don't know about you, but I have a lot of things that pop up in my head all the time. Oh, gotta do that. Oh, gotta do that. Oh, gotta do that. So sometimes I think just quickly, just set, set an alarm in your phone, even if it's for later today, and it'll, it'll,'cause I will always forget it, but if the alarm will remind me, um, and it gets it off my head. Gets, it gets, I have
Dani Vee:alarms for everything in my life. And when you score my phone, it's just alarm, alarm, alarm, alarm, alarm.'cause you know, I, I love my children, but sometimes I get so hyperfocused or distracted. I, if I didn't have that go pick them up from school alarm, I reckon I would've been late. 50% of the time, I'm like, oh, gotta go. So it's really helpful.
Tina Strachan:No, a hundred percent. And also it helps you focus though, don't you think? Because I have one, I have a two o'clock go, go to school and sit in the lineup on the days that I do pick up and, um. But then I go, if I don't have that alarm, I would constantly be like, oh, is it time now? Yeah. Oh, is it time? Now? I keep looking at the clock, but if you, and I think that's helpful for anyone, um, just to set it and then you actually don't. It's amazing. That was like a game changer for me. I don't know how it took me so long to work that one out, but you just. I can sit back and write and not worry about it. Um, also keeping, I try to keep a routine. So like I try to get up at a, you know, time in the morning and um, just get my writing done so I can kind of tick that box.'cause I get quite frustrated. And sometimes when you get in that ru of not writing, it's hard to get out, isn't it? Uh, headphones as well. White noise. Just, I have those loops, those ones that just block people out. So I was just saying this morning, went to a cafe and just. You know, pop them in so I couldn't hear. And or, um, those binaural, is it called binaural bi bial beats, um, that you can get, you know, just on, you know, apple music and Spotify and stuff like that. And that's just, uh, puts you into like a bit of a really hyperfocused state, which is nice and you don't even know that they're there. But, um, yeah, I find them really productive too.
Dani Vee:I have the noise canceling as well. Cannot listen to music with lyrics because I'll just. My brain won't be able to cope with that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I just chuck on the classical writing music on, on Apple and I don't even notice it's there, but it helps me focus and I'm not distracted by the noises around me.
Tina Strachan:Yeah.
Dani Vee:No,
Tina Strachan:it's
Dani Vee:great.
Tina Strachan:Really good tips. Um, so now before you go, um, drawing on your publisher brain now, uh, do. Do you have any advice for,'cause we have lots of aspiring authors, um, that listen to the podcast. Do you have any top tips for aspiring authors who are trying to get a book deal?
Dani Vee:Yeah, and I think it's a real balancing act. And these are going to, what I'm gonna say is probably gonna contradict some things that we've all been told. You know, write what you love, et cetera, et cetera, which is important. But it's just as important to know the market at the time. It's forever changing. Even as publishers and we have good intel, we look up books and stats and how they sell from Nielsen. We have Simon and Schuster telling us what's going in the marketplace, what Big W are buying, all that kind of stuff. Um, but. It still constantly changes. So you think you know something and something's selling and something's hot, and then it will be like, Nope, not that anymore. This. And so I can imagine as a writer it's even more difficult'cause you don't have access to all those data and conversations that we do. But I think you need to do your best to know who's publishing what. What's the brand of each publisher? What's selling well, what's not selling, what's hot? Um, what are kids reading habits right now? Um, and what are the important issues? And, you know, as we talk about A DHD or neurodivergence or uh, diversity, these are all things that are really important in kids' books at the moment. So it's hard to know everything, but you really just need to keep your ears open. Listen to podcasts, you know, like ours. Go to writing conferences when you can go to, um, book launches'cause they're free. You can just go to, mm-hmm. Book launch and support them, you know? Um, so just do what you can. Look at the best selling list. Go into bookshops, speak to booksellers, and I think just educate yourself as much as you can. I do manuscript assessments as well as part of the publishing, and we do pitch parties and all those kind of things. And you know, the submission, uh, piles that we've just had in June, we signed someone from that, by the way. Um, very, that's very exciting. Um, but I think it's about practice. And now your craft, as authors, myself included, we're always in such a rush to get. Published'cause. Oh my God, when's my next book deal? Oh my God. I need to get a book deal. And I, I, I understand more than anyone that urgency, but it's kind of like you wouldn't expect to be a brain surgeon just by watching a brain surgeon. Do brain surgery once, right? Mm-hmm. And so I think we sometimes underestimate what it takes to be a writer. And someone said it takes you a million words to write any good words. And so I don't know the truth in that, but I actually think the more you write, the more you hone your craft. That's that's the key. You know, because even of what's in, what's great, what's selling, if a publisher comes across a great story, they're gonna want it. You know, whether it's now or in two years or whatever, they're going to want it. And I just think in such a competitive industry, and you know, the industry is doing it tough at the moment, for whatever reason it might be the financial crisis, I have no idea. Um, but near enough isn't good enough. And I see in the submissions pile. We talk about rhyme a lot, particularly for picture books, and most of the rhyme I read is not ready for submission. And I think you need to perfect your craft. Um, be honest with yourself. You know, if if it's not quite right in rhyme, it's not gonna be quite right for the publisher. So you have to be honest with yourself. And I know I love rhyme, I love it. I've taught poetry. I'm obsessed with it, but I know that. It's a bit tricky in publishing and so all besides my epic doubt, all my picture books since then have been in ps. Fingers crossed I'll get to write one in rhyme again one day. But you really have to listen to the market and really hone your craft and try not to take rejection personally. We've all been rejected, like every single writer has it's part of the business. Um. And even as a publisher sometimes I love a manuscript and James loves a manuscript, but for whatever reason, we can't publish it because something similar's just come out or something similar, came out with the same sort of idea and it didn't sell well, or they're not, junior fiction isn't selling very well right now, or whatever the reason, you know, and so I think as publishers, we look up stats like a religion, and so sometimes we have had to pass on stories that we really liked because they, we didn't think they were gonna sell at that time. Um, but the good news is that, and I think this is a real lesson in what I'm trying to say, is that someone that I just signed recently through the submissions pile, she said, I submitted to Larrikin House four years ago and didn't get published and four years on, you know, we loved her manuscript and it was, it was a really tight, well-edited. Fantastic issue based manuscript. And it was like, she's listened to the market, she's listened to what we want as publishers and she's really honed this craft within each of its life. Like obviously it's gonna go into editing, but I would say it would not need a lot. Mm-hmm. You know, another author that I'm looking at, um, signing again, she's done a manuscript assessment with me a couple of years ago. The manuscript wasn't ready, but. Two years later, I just read something of hers. It's amazing and I wanna look at publishing it. Um, another author that did all of our school of larrikins, and obviously you don't have to do that, but it's just an example. Um, she did all of our courses and then she pitched something to James. It wasn't quite right. Pitch to pitch pitch, and then she pitched something James like, yes, I like that. You need to write it. And we're publishing that. Um, it's coming out next year. Mm-hmm. So I think if you love writing. You'll keep doing it no matter what. And so I think it's just really important to just keep honing your craft and everything you write is not wasted words. You know? Uh, my sad publishing stories that I wrote a 90,000 word crime novel, the publisher called me to say that they loved it. They wanted me to rewrite it from first to third person. I rewrote it took me, you know, months and months to rewrite it, and then I never heard from them again. Mm-hmm. So we've all got that story. You know? Mm-hmm. And so it's, you can say, yeah, it's disappointing, but I learned a lot from that process. Of course, I would've preferred a publish book, but that's not, that's not the nature of this business. If you want certainty, you know. You, you go to uni and you come out as a teacher or a whatever, and that's certainty and there's uncertainty in business. That's why it is so rewarding when you finally get published. Um, but I think you just have to, you have to hone your craft because I see a lot of submissions or manuscript submissions where people are still learning, which is fantastic. We should be learning our craft. Or people who are kind of like, I did a workshop and now publish me, and sometimes it happens. And I love that when that happens, that sometimes you need to watch a few more brain surgeries.
Tina Strachan:It's a long game. It's, that's what we say, like it's a long game. And I think that's all really important information. Uh, I, I sort of equate it to like, you're not going to sell a huge piece of artwork the first time you pick up a paintbrush. Like, you just, you can't, you just aren't skilled and you haven't painted that well and you, and it's, it's, yeah, but we don't expect someone to just pick up a paintbrush and, and, and sell their work and have a, you know, a huge display at an art gallery. And it's very similar. Just gotta keep going and. And yeah, you never look at those artworks as wasted time. It's, you know, and it's, it's fun and enjoyable for the person and then just getting better every time. No, I totally agree.
Dani Vee:Everyone accepts that it takes four or five years to do a university course, right? And then you're a qualified teacher, and then you're still a beginning teacher and you're probably, if I'm honest, not good for another five years, you know, from my,
Tina Strachan:and you probably didn't get the best job that you wanted either. You just take the kind of the first one that's there, and you are not the headmaster or the head of. School or whatever it is. Yeah,
Dani Vee:I, I think we just need to take a little bit of that into our writing. And there are exceptions to every rule of course, but just take the time to learn and hone your craft. And I think, you know, the, the authors that I was kind of mentioning before, you know, I hope those stories help as well. And even myself, like I was writing for years and years and studying literature and teaching English before I ever submitted anything because I just never thought I was good enough. But then finally I'm like, okay, it's now or never, lady. You're not kidding. Any younger. So, you know, it's not like the first manuscript I ever wrote got published.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, rejections are just part of the part of the deal, isn't it? It's part of the pathway forward. Um, just quickly before you go, uh, what about any top tips for our debut authors? We've got lots of debut authors that listen. We've got, um, some that are about to publish, some that have just published this year. Some that are. Stuck in the second book Blues, we'll call it, trying to work out what to do there. Um, any, any tips for them?
Dani Vee:Yeah, I think you've gotta hit the ground. Um, I did this with my first book. I, you know, spent my own money on sending as many bookshops as I can. A little signed bookmarks saying thank you for having my book. Um. And then I went to as many bookshops as I could, and I just did like a whole weekend day trip. And I just did a little map of, you know, one way map of where I could go and visit bookshops and get to know booksellers. And then they've signed you book, they put a little sticker on it, you know, they, they might hand sell it to someone. So, oh, the author was just in this suits your, you know, what you're looking for, et cetera, et cetera. Um, go to book launches, get to know other authors. Then you'll have a really nice support base. We have a really beautiful group of, you know, authors that we spend a lot of time with on a social matter. You know, we don't always talk about writing, but it's just nice to have that really supportive, um, people who are, you know, because your family don't often wanna, you hear, to hear you talking about writing, they sometimes wanna talk about something else. So it's nice to have that little support group. Um, I would be looking into writing groups, whether it's an official one at your library or whether it's. A couple of writing mates that you just catch up or you can throw ideas around with. Like, I have a lot of people I can go, what do you think about this idea? What do you think about this title? Or could you read this chapter? You know, and I obviously would do the same for them. So I think just creating those little communities, and I'm just trying to think of free stuff'cause I know you don't and a lot of money, um, as a debut author, or you know, sometimes it's established author, either, sometimes, ever, yes. Sometimes ever. So I'm trying to think of things that are just, you know, I'm not saying time's not important,'cause time is very important, but you know, having a book out's really important too. So you should probably put aside a month or two to really go out and get on the ground, I reckon. Mm-hmm. Uh, go to book launches, go to as many, um, you know, Sydney Writers Festival. The Family Day was amazing. That just went,'cause you could go there, you could meet incredible authors, you could watch them on the stage, you could talk to other authors, you could have your book signed. So it was this real. Really great vibe of meeting people and learning and, and seeing what kids are buying. You know? I think that's kind of the best information that you can have and just support other authors, you know, and it's not to get something back, it's just because it's such a great celebratory community that we do celebrate each other because we know how bloody it is to get published. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So when someone has a win, we're not sitting there jealous. In our little witch case, we're like, yay, someone's done it. Whoa. And we're celebrating their book and we're getting them on our podcast and we're putting them up in our stories and we're reviewing their books and we're holding up their book in the bookstore. Like all of that stuff is, is free and helps you to be part of that community. So for me, community is just not, has to be number one. Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan:No, absolutely agree. That's amazing advice. Thank you, Dani. It's been incredible having you on the show today.
Dani Vee:Thank you. I enjoyed talking about all of that important
Tina Strachan:stuff. Mm-hmm. It's very important, and especially to introduce your two new books into the world as well. Thanks, Dani. Great. Thank you so
Dani Vee:much.
Tina Strachan:Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new EPS drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing. You can also find us on Instagram.