The Book Deal
Motivation and inspiration for emerging writers, helping them pave their own pathway to publishing success.
The Book Deal
The importance of writing residencies, enjoying uninterrupted time to think and write, and eating ALL the cheese
In this episode of the Book Deal podcast, hosts Tina Strachan and Natasha Rai share their experiences from their writing residency at Magnetic Island, Northern Queensland. Joined by other writers as part of the Roderick Centre's Writers on the Reef Residency, Tina and Natasha discuss the inspirational impact of the island on their work, the productivity from uninterrupted writing time, and the joy of being part of a supportive writers’ community. They talk about their respective projects, the benefits of the residency, and chat with Nicole Crowe, who manages the residency program. The episode also features insights on what the program looks for in applications and shares Nicole Crowe's upcoming debut book, 'The Washup.'
00:00 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
00:42 Magnetic Island Writing Retreat
01:46 The Residency Experience
03:10 Writing Progress and Inspirations
10:16 Event at Mary Who Books
11:52 Reflections and Future Plans
13:33 Introducing A Zaykova and Galaxy Grifter
14:24 Introduction to Galaxy Grifter
15:01 Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast
15:22 Writers on the Reef Residency
17:04 Application Process and Tips
21:43 Common Application Mistakes
24:48 Nicole Crowe's Debut Book
28:07 Publishing Journey Insights
31:19 Final Thoughts and Farewell
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This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories, the authors behind your favorite books. No matter what stage of writing you are at, we've got you covered. I'm Tina Strachan. And I'm Madeleine Cleary. And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors one deal at a time.
Madeleine Cleary:The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on. And pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
Natasha Rai:Hi Tina.
Tina Strachan:Hi Natasha. How are you?
Natasha Rai:I'm so, so fine, so fine.
Tina Strachan:Why are we so fine today?
Natasha Rai:Because we're up on Magnetic Island mm-hmm. For a week of sun. Mm-hmm. And writing and cheese and wine. Mm-hmm. Also mainly writing and, and mainly writing, but swimming.
Tina Strachan:Swimming in the pool. Swimming in the beach. I know. Walking in the sand.
Natasha Rai:Oh, it's idyllic. It's idyllic. It really is paradise. It is.
Tina Strachan:So Magnetic Island is in Northern Queensland. Yep. Uh, which is fantastic'cause it's winter here at the moment, yet we are sitting here in shorts and a singlet and very much enjoying the sunshine.
Natasha Rai:Yes. I've been for swim almost every day since we've been here.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. And I'm sitting here with wet hair. Yeah. Even so. Now it does sound luxurious, doesn't it? And it's very, we feel very privileged Yes. To be here. Yes. But, um, we're not, it's not just us. We're here with some other writers as well. That's true. Yes. There's five of us. Mm-hmm. And it's all thanks to the Roderick Centre.
Natasha Rai:Part of the James Cook University.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's, and it's part of their Writers on the Reef Residency, which we were, not only were we super fortunate enough just in ourselves to be accepted onto the program, but I can't believe that we both got accepted in the same year.
Natasha Rai:No, it was such a thrill when I saw your face on the shortlist.'cause we hadn't even told each other, we'd applied. No. So I was like, what? And then the same day that we found out we were shortlisted, we got, we got the phone call. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that was hilarious because I was like, oh my, I know.
Tina Strachan:If only Madeleine was here. I know. I do miss you Madeleine. Um, you would enjoy it very much too. Yes. So, um. So we both, so for this, have you done a residency before?
Natasha Rai:No, it's my first one. Yeah. You too.
Tina Strachan:No, this is my first as well. And I, I think it's gonna be a really hard one to beat, I have to say. And you can't beat this. I'm literally sitting here. We're sitting here beside the pool, um, that's at the beach house that we're in. And I'm looking out to the beautiful Horseshoe Bay. I know. Oh, I can't, we don't even really have words. We don't just. Just staring. I know we're just looking out. Um, but speaking of words, we have been getting the words down.
Natasha Rai:Oh God yes. So I had a plan to work on a section of this new manuscript that I have, and I genuinely thought based on how productive I'm at home, because I just had a really, really, really realized, which is a stupid thing to say, how much time you get when you don't have to worry about cooking and laundry and chores and working like day job, working. Um, so I had planned to do these two new chapters over the co course the whole week and I've done them in three days.
Tina Strachan:That's incredible. Is amazing. Yes. Yeah. Is it the vibe as well and just Yeah. Being relaxed and the ideas can just flow and, you know, going for a beautiful walk on the beach is always helpful, yes. To sort out any plot problems.
Natasha Rai:Yes. And'cause I,'cause the, my, um, setting is on an island. Mm-hmm. In the future. Um, and just walking along the beach, getting a sense of tides. Mm. Getting a sense of who the type of person I might live in a, in an island. I don't know. It is just done wonders. Like, um, you'll hear from Nicole Crowe in a minute. Uh, we, we had, we had a chat to her about, um, the program and she talks about this importance of place. Mm-hmm. And I've heard other writers talk about going to somewhere where they are working and writing and how place influences their work. And I knew that theoretically, but being here has just really brought it home. Just the smells, the sights, the sounds, it's, it's incredible. Mm mm mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel very fortunate.
Tina Strachan:Mm. Yeah. It was good having a chat to Nicole'cause she could tell us all about the, you know, sort of ins and outs of the residency and what they're looking for. Um, so yeah, it's a really important episode, I think. For all, um, writers who would like to apply for the residency.'cause it's truly, it is truly amazing. Um, but yeah, talking about place and just making, sort of trying to involve that in your story. Yeah. Which is something that they do. Um, or part of the requirements, I guess is if the manuscript that you're working on while you're here or the work that you're working on while you're here, does involve a sense of place. And mine didn't originally have. An island involved in it at all. The manuscript that I'm working on while I'm here. But now I've decided just to shift the whole thing to an island. Excellent. Because it actually, it actually really serves the manuscript better and plus I just love islands as well, so that's gonna be, yeah. And it gives it another kind of twist, which would be great. So yeah, so I've had lots of good writing time as well, and a lot of plotting. Mm-hmm. Plotting, I don't know. It is not really plotting, I think it's more just getting the story out. Of my mind and, and onto the page in a very vomit draft. Okay. Yep.
Natasha Rai:So you're actually writing, putting words down.
Tina Strachan:It's words down. Yeah. Yeah. But they, they need a lot of, um. They need a lot of, yeah. Building up and, and expansion. Mm-hmm. But that's fine. It's all part of it and yeah, it's all part of the process.
Natasha Rai:And was that your plan for the week? Like you wanted to try and get some words in?
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Yes, definitely. Because, um, you know, we're talking about this earlier. I think my ideas are sort. Quite well formed in my mind before I start putting them down. So it's literally, it's all just there. I just need to, to find the time to write it all down and, well, you know, we've got half a week left on this beautiful island, so I'm excited to see how far I get. Yeah. So why did you apply for the residency, Natasha?
Natasha Rai:A a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have never been on one, like I've been away with friends, like writer friends and paid for retreats, and I just really like the idea that of going somewhere I've never been before. Mm. Having this beautiful uninterrupted time and having some of it funded. Mm mm by somebody else. Mm-hmm. In a way that there's no, like, I couldn't come here to this specific property that we're on No. And pay for it outta my own pocket. There's just. I couldn't do it. Mm. For the amount of time that we're here. Mm-hmm. So those were all the reasons, and I've just heard now quite a few friends who have been on residencies and just hearing the benefit of A, the writing time, B, the thinking time, and also the sheer wonder and joy of being with other writers. Mm. And you all just get it. And you don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to ask for time or. I don't know. It's just very different to when you are with family or friends or civilians. Yes. Who don't get it in way, who don't quite understand that.
Tina Strachan:Yes. That you could, if you're sitting at the table with your computer in front of you, you could be deep in another world. So it's best just to quietly.
Natasha Rai:Exactly. Why did you apply Tina?
Tina Strachan:Um, I saw it coming up on social media. It must have been from last year. And I remember just thinking, wow, like that's incredible. Look at these lucky, lucky people that go on these. Residencies and I thought, well, maybe that could be me, you know? And then it came around this year and I thought, you know, because the, uh, residency that do, you know, we're talking about place. So they do like, um, the requirements for what you're working on. To be heavily involved in place and also, um, you know, all islands, uh, specifically'cause it is on an island or, um, environmental themes. And most of my books are set with environmental themes, uh, in them or kind of at their core. And well, I thought, well, that's perfect because I can, I've got something that I can submit. Um, I'll see how I go with the applications. So I was truly, yeah, really surprised. But, um, really, yeah, really happy to, to, um. Yeah, to, to receive the residency. But yeah, I applied for it, I think because, um, also like, just the thought of a week. Away. Yeah. To write. Exactly. It almost gives you, it gives you permission because you know, you always, like you were saying before, there's always stuff to do at home. Like you're always, you know, and I've got kids as, as well, so there's, you know, your day is just so full and so just have that uninterrupted time is is literally like a dream.
Natasha Rai:Exactly. Because, you know, even I assume with your. Kind of commitments. Even when you have a block of time, you still have to stop to maybe go pick up children. Or, yeah. You know, drop them off somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's never the kind of stretch of time that you. That you hope for. Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan:No, that's right. Yeah. And you're always thinking, there's always other things to think about. Exactly. Yeah. And sometimes sitting down and writing feels a so self-indulgent when you should be doing all these other things, feeling a little bit of guilt sometimes. So, um, so yeah, this is definitely permission to, you know, write. Think Yes. Stare at the wall and think about your plot point. Go for a walk and think about your plot point. Yes. It's incredible.
Natasha Rai:Yeah. And as part of the residency, one of the commitments that we had, uh, was to do an event. So we did an event on Thursday night, so it was the second night we were here at Mary Who Books in Townsville. It's a gorgeous little bookshop. Amazing. So if you are in the Townsville area, please go and check it out. Mm-hmm. Um, Katie. Is the owner and manager of um, Mary Who, so we did a little event, the five of us, and we have such an amazingly, wonderfully engaged audience, don't you think? Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan:Yes, I agree.
Natasha Rai:And it just felt really good for me personally to hear Tina and the other writers talk about their work, because we've got three poets here as well. Mm. And hearing us or just hearing them talk about the different forms and different genres. I dunno. It just enriched my understanding of mm-hmm. How to approach writing. And some of the things that were said were just downright profound. Oh, profound.
Tina Strachan:So profound. I know, I know. So, yeah, I think you learn a lot them as well. But you know what I thought afterwards is, although we write so. Such different styles. Um, fundamentally, everybody is coming from a similar place almost, and speaks about writing and how it feels to write. Yeah. Uh, very similarly Yeah. As well. And those feelings. So that was really interesting too. But yeah, it was a beautiful bookstore. It's, yeah. Um, yeah. We chatted to Tenille, um, who from the bookstore as well. Yeah. Um, and so that was, that was, yeah.
Natasha Rai:Who was our host. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So Tina, once you go home and once you get back into life and every day, you know, work, et cetera, family, what ha, what will you be doing differently or how has this week helped you maybe get momentum back or get back into your manuscript?
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, this manuscript I'm working on was, is brand new words. So I hadn't even started, I mean, I'd done like a. Sort of a, a pitch in a sono, a really high level synopsis of, um, the whole story. So this was new words, which was super exciting, you know, super exciting and a little bit scary to get those new words down. So that has this week means that I'll be a good way into it and feeling comfortable with where I am. Um, and so when I get back, I can just keep rolling with that. Um, it is a little bit harder. To get started or get to that point when you've only got like an hour a day. Right. So that would've taken me so long, months and months and you know, who knows what comes up in that time, you know, getting around to finishing it, so, so yeah, I've been in a good place and I can just keep rolling with it.
Natasha Rai:Yeah. Nice. I love it.
Tina Strachan:What about you?
Natasha Rai:I feel like I've fallen back in love with my manuscript because I've been taking a break from it for a while. Given how much work I will have done by the time we leave, I feel like it's reinvigorated me and renewed my enthusiasm for it, which is great. It is great. It's beautiful. Okay, so I think it's time for me to go have a swim. Mm. Yeah.
Tina Strachan:I might go, are you gonna go beach or pool?
Natasha Rai:Beach, yeah.
Tina Strachan:And then it's surely gotta be cheese and cocktail time.
Natasha Rai:Of course.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Okay.
A Zaykova:Hi, I'm A Zaykova, author of Galaxy Grifter, a snarky high stake space opera, published by Orbit in June this year. The story centers on Levi, an interstellar con artist, old charm, no conscience. His only real love is his spaceship, Kairos, his symbol of status and freedom, which his forced to surrender as lone collateral to the most dangerous gang in his quadrant. Desperate to get his ship back by any means necessary, Levi swindles a valuable anti-tech blueprint from an alien diplomat, which he plans to sell for millions of credits to the highest bidder. To decode the document he hires Vera, a programmer whose inherited debt. Keeps her trapped on an asteroid in the galactic backwaters, certain that Levi is merely using her. She plans to steal the blueprint for her creditors and finally gain her freedom. Their alliance is plagued by fiery tension, betrayals, and an impossible choice. When they learn that an alien government intends to use the stolen technology to plan humanity's genocide, and that they will stop at nothing to retrieve their plans. Galaxy Grifter is the first book in the blackjack Intertel universe. It's available as an ebook, a paperback, and an audiobook read by Dan Bitner, an award-winning narrator who does a fantastic job. It often gets compared to Star Wars and Firefly, and readers love to hate the protagonist. Read to find Out Why. Thank you.
Tina Strachan:Hi, Nicole Crowe. Welcome to the Book Deal Podcast.
Nicole Crowe:Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Tina Strachan:Oh no. It's our absolute pleasure, isn't it, Natasha?
Natasha Rai:It is. It's a very special episode because Tina and I are here together, um, today from Magnetic Island. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes.
Tina Strachan:Doing some, doing lots of writing. Yes. Doing lots of beachy stuff as well, which is incredible. But that's what we've got you here to talk to us about today, Nicole, because we are here on, at the Writers on the Reef Residency, which is part of the Roderick Center, uh, for Australian literature and creative writing. Which is part of James Cook University and run out of James Cook University. And so that's your job, isn't it? That's your main role is to run this program?
Nicole Crowe:Yes. Yes. So we've, uh, this is our second year in a row running this, uh, this, this competitive residency. Um, and it's just been a real privilege and honor to be able to. Put this on every year so far for, um, authors to come up north.'cause uh, people don't often make it up north very often, so it, and it's, it's fabulous up here. And we've got a beautiful beach house on Magnetic Island, so we have five authors staying in the beach house for a week, um, with, uh, food and everything provided. And so it's a really special opportunity, I think for writers to come up and experience. You know, north and far North Queensland and, um, to have that sacred, you know, really important time away from the real world and the day-to-day slog of life and work and family commitments, et cetera. Um, and really get away and knuckle down and focus on their creative projects. So yes, it's a, it's a fabulous opportunity for authors and I really enjoy running it every year and meeting the authors and sharing ideas and, um, it's just a really special experience.
Tina Strachan:It sure is. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. It's been very special for us. Definitely, definitely. We've got lots of writing done so far. Yes. It's been amazing.
Natasha Rai:Yes. Mm-hmm. Um, so as you said, Nicole, it's a competitive process. Um, so can you go over how writers can apply and what you are looking for or the adjudicators looking for in the applications?
Nicole Crowe:Yeah. So, um, the, uh, our, uh, writers' center has a sort of a, a, a, uh, one of our focuses is very place-based. Um, so for anybody who is interested in applying next year, um, that's, uh, kind of a strong element that we look for in applications writers who are, who are interested in, um, conservation, uh, writing, um. Uh, or islands the Great Barrier Reef,'cause Magnetic Island is, uh, situated in the Great Barrier Reef World, heritage area. So projects that focus on that sort of real, kind of strong element of the place of, of, um, climate change and islands, et cetera. Um, we look for that. Um, and we also look for, uh, a really strong idea of, um, the current project that they intend to work on while they're up here for this seven day period. Um, so we like a, a good, solid sort of, um. Um, yeah, idea of the project. Like, so because, so it, it's not, so try and be specific if you'd like to apply for next year, um, because that will be really helpful.'cause we want, we want, um, authors to have a strong direction, uh, for their, for their time up here so that they're maximizing their time and writing as much as, as they they're capable of during that week. Um, and uh, yeah, that's kind of it. We don't have any particular genres in mind. It's, um, anybody. Writing a, a sort of a substantial piece of work or a collection. That's all, all welcome poets, genre lit, fiction, speculative, uh, yeah, we're not fussy on, on, um, on genre. Um, as long as they, if you've got a reasonably strong publication record, whether it be sort of journals or novels or traditional publication or even self-publishing. Um, we look at that too.
Tina Strachan:Oh my god. Sorry. There's a hummingbird at our, literally at our door. Oh. Oh, oh my God. There's so awesome.
Nicole Crowe:Oh, are they humming? Are they, are they not? Are they bright? Kind of yellow? Yes. Yellow and blue. Yes. They're sunbirds. Ah. They're sunbirds.
Natasha Rai:Oh my gosh. They're beautiful in the window.
Nicole Crowe:They're looking for somewhere to build a nest. Oh yeah. Okay. They build this funny little funny little hanging. They find a, like a piece of string or an eave or something, and they ha they, they connect the top of their nest to that, and it hangs down like a teardrop shape, and they have this little hole that they that, so they go into this little teardrop nest. It's very tiny, and they, they're so cute. They even have like a little visor. They build a little visor. On top of their little entry hole into their teardrop nest. Aw. And they make their, they make their nest out of, um, uh, twigs and leaves and spiderwebs. They glue it all together with spiderwebs.
Natasha Rai:So clever.
Nicole Crowe:They're very cute.
Tina Strachan:We are just completely, I know. Mesmerized, mesmerized by that. Oh, they're beautiful and hanging around
Nicole Crowe:just the taste of what you can get when you're lucky enough to receive a, a spot at writers on the reef.
Natasha Rai:I just had a follow up question on what you said, Nicole. So when you said that, um, it helps for writers to be specific, you mean spec specificity around how it links to the themes that you're looking for.
Nicole Crowe:Yes. And a strong idea for a project, like being able to express the, all the, the, um, the scope of the project and the, the goals of the project as well. Yeah. And its links to the natural environment or islands, ecology, climate change, the reef, et cetera.
Tina Strachan:Yep. Yeah. Good tips, good pointers, and yes, I highly recommend everyone, uh, apply for this, uh, for next year. When does it open? When, when we start advertising for next year.
Nicole Crowe:Um, probably, um, early half, early part of next year I would say.
Tina Strachan:Yeah. Okay.
Nicole Crowe:Um, yeah, we'll put, we'll put the call out for applications and we'll have the application window open for probably six to eight weeks, um, for people to get their applications in. And, uh, yeah, then we go from there. Mm-hmm.
Tina Strachan:So the best way for everybody to, um, keep on top of when it opens is maybe to follow the Roderick Centre on social media.
Nicole Crowe:Absolutely. Yeah. Um, visit our website, follow our Instagram and Facebook accounts, and, um, all of that information will be available across those platforms when, um, when we, we have firm dates locked in.
Natasha Rai:Perfect. So, so given that this is the second year running, and so next year you'll, you know, it'll be the third year of applications, what are some common mistakes that you see that kind of go works against writers to be successful?
Nicole Crowe:Oh. Um, some of them are quite random. Like there was one, um, applicant that we received, um, amongst the group that was talking about their project was they described their project as, um, like sci-fi and about how it was gonna be set on Magnetic Island. Um, and I thought, oh, that's interesting. Um, but then when I got into more of the application. There was nothing to suggest that the applicant had ever even been to Magnetic Island or knew anything at all about it and what actually another applicant said I would. I love the Magnetic Islands. And I thought that's pretty obvious that they did not really do any sort of research into the, uh, residency that they're applying for or where it was located. And there was another applicant that said that they're really interested in the history of. Of like copper mining on Magnetic Island, and there's never been any copper mining on Magnetic Island. So just stuff like that. If you don't know anything about the place, don't pretend that you do because, um, it'll be really obvious very, very quickly that you just pulling it outta your bum. Mm-hmm. So don't do that
Tina Strachan:and do your research first.
Nicole Crowe:Yeah. I mean, if you wanna talk about. Magnetic Island or where, wherever you're applying for residency. If, if it's got a place, um, Strachan place based element to it, um, it's, it's fine that for you to say that you've never been there and you dunno anything about it because that's really nice. We wanna, we wanna bring people here, we want people to experience the place. Um, so just be really honest and authentic in your applica, in your application materials and that'll put you in good step. Mm.
Tina Strachan:Very good tip.
Natasha Rai:Yeah, that's an excellent tip because, you know, people, I guess, do apply for multiple residencies and it, it, you can fall into the trap of using an application for something else, but with, but not checking it properly and making sure the details match what you are looking for.
Nicole Crowe:Yes, exactly. Yes. Because we do read them all. We don't have, like AI doing its first pass on applicants. Uh, we as a, as a small team read every single application. So your, your application is gonna be read by a human. So, um, you don't have to worry about, um, getting. Um, getting culled in the first round by some sort of bot, because that's not the way we operate. So that could be a double-edged sword because we will spot things that are like weird and inaccurate. Um, and if you're pretending that you know all about the place, we're gonna spot that immediately. And, um, it's probably gonna put you at the bottom of the list. Mm-hmm. But yeah, we, we, we, we, we, uh, we appre we appreciate authenticity in, um, our applications. Yep.
Tina Strachan:Um, so Nicole, your job at the Roderick Centre and the residency is all about helping other authors, um, helping them to get the, the writing done. Um, and you know, if you know publication is on their, you know, their list of, you know, their wishlist, then, you know, it's certainly helping them get there. Um, but you yourself are a very soon to be published author with your debut book coming out in just under two weeks.
Nicole Crowe:Yes. Yes. I think it's the 26th of August, so it is coming up really, really fast. Um, so that's all very exciting. Can you tell us a little bit about your book? Yeah, so it's called The Washup, and it's coming out through Pantera Publishing. Um, it will hit the bookshops on the 26th, I believe. Um, it's also available in audiobook and ebook form. Um. So it's, it's set on Magnetic Island and in Townsville, which is the closest mainland, um, city to Magnetic Island. And, uh. The, the tag, the tagline for it is, um, a tragic accident in Paradise or a calculated crime called
Natasha Rai:Love It.
Nicole Crowe:So it's about, it's about a, um, it's about a young woman. She's 30, her name is Eve, and she's just recovering from, still recovering from the death of her parents in a car crash two years earlier. And then I, um, so she's just ticking along, leaving her life, drinking too much. Having real trouble getting out of our own way. All that fun stuff, um, that we do when we're 30 and kind of at a bit of a loose end. Uh, and then there's a, a, a terrible, um, soon after the novel begins, it's a terrible skydiving crash. And so Eve is, um, convinced that it's not an accident. And so this is kind of the, the rest, the, the rest of the book is her trying to figure out what happened. Um, in this awful crash and who was to blame or was it an accident? And she kind of loses the plot quite a few times through the novel, makes some really bad personal decisions. Um, yeah. And so it's about her trying to figure out that sort of central mystery while trying to also maintain her own sanity, which is tough.
Tina Strachan:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sounds exciting. I can't wait to read it. Congratulations.
Nicole Crowe:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it is exciting. I hope, I hope readers love it. It's all, it's very terrifying having something that you've spent such a long time on and put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into, see it go out in the world and just hope that it does well. So, um, I hope that everybody, I hope that everybody gets a real kick outta reading it. Yeah.
Natasha Rai:And, um, how long did you work on your manuscript before you started submitting it?
Nicole Crowe:Probably about 18 months, I think, sort of. Part-time. I was a couple of days a week working on it when I, I was kind of on maternity leave too, so I started doing that on my maternity leave. Um, yeah, so it took a while and then it took about 18 months after that to find a home in publishing. So yeah, it's a, it's a long process as you guys know, so, but it's all very, um, it's all very worth it at the end of the line and all of those edits and drafts, oh my god, they go on and on and on. But then eventually you have something. Worthwhile in your hand, which is, um, a really great feeling.
Natasha Rai:Has there been any elements or aspects of this publishing journey that you've gone through so far that's really surprised you?
Nicole Crowe:Everything. Yeah, everything. And I guess the biggest surprise, um, as somebody who is new to publishing, I think when you're, when you're writing, um, when you're in the middle of writing your book, you think that. You don't know what you're doing and that the people in publishing know what they're doing. And then you get your foot through the door, and then you have this team around you, and then you quickly realize that they, I mean, they know what they're doing, but it's really hard. It's impossible for anybody, even publishing veterans to predict the next big thing or to create the next big thing, right? I was, I mean, before I had anything to do with formal publishing, I just assumed that everybody was smarter than me and better than me. And, and that's not the case. Everybody's just doing the best that they can. And some things take off and go gangbusters and other things that a publisher or people in publishing will think it'll do really well, does it. And nobody can really explain why.'cause that's just culture.
Natasha Rai:Mm-hmm.
Nicole Crowe:Culture and zeitgeist is a total mystery to even people at the centre of it. So. That was quite illuminating, and everybody's doing their damnedest to get you the, the best sort of, um, awareness and profile that they can, but it's so unpredictable. So I, I kind of didn't realize that level of unpredictability until really just very recently. So that's, um, that was a learning curve. Yeah.
Natasha Rai:Yeah. And it feels like the way you've described that, that it would both take the pressure off and on at the same time, like,'cause then you can focus on things that you can control, like making it the best version of the work and collaborating with the publisher and the publicist and you know, doing everything you can to get the book out there.
Nicole Crowe:Or making it, as I said, as good as it can. And then the other stuff like the culture, the zeitgeist, what's hot, what's not like, yeah. Yeah. I think there was a, I think it was Andy Warhol who said, like, somebody asked him a similar question, like something about, you know, how is he so popular? Or whatever. And his answer to that was, oh, you know, I just make stuff. Other people decide if it's art, and while they're deciding whether or not it's art, I just keep making stuff. So that's, I think, the best that we can all do. We just keep doing what we, what we can do. We, you know, write what you know, all of those old adages. Just keep pushing with them, keep running with them. Try not to listen too much to the noise because you can't control any of that. All you can control is your own sort of work and your own ideas and your own output. And then just all you can do is fit cross your fingers. So, yeah, just keep going. Keep going.
Tina Strachan:That's such good advice, and I love that quote that Andy Warhol said.
Natasha Rai:Yeah, I, haven't heard that before, so I I really like it too.
Nicole Crowe:Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's great. I always remember it when I'm sort of stuck. I'm like, oh, well I'm just gonna do what I can. And then it's up to the universe, culture, zeitgeist, all the rest of it.
Tina Strachan:That's perfect. I like it. Thank you Nicole. Thanks for looking after us, um, this week and
Nicole Crowe:Oh my pleasure.
Tina Strachan:Very welcome and, um, catering to our chocolate and cheese requests.
Natasha Rai:A special, special thanks with the chocolate and cheese.
Tina Strachan:It's what fuels writers, I think. Yes. It's the secret formula.
Nicole Crowe:Absolutely. Chocolate, cheese, and a bit of sneaky wine. And that's kind of, that's the secret ingredient to the, to the good work in the absolutely perfect weather.
Natasha Rai:Oh gosh, yes. It is like paradise.
Nicole Crowe:Yes, it's the perfect time of year to have, um, to have residencies up here.'cause it is lovely. The bugs aren't too bad. The, the, the, the animals are going a little bit mental though because it's, um, breeding season. But, um, that's always very entertaining. I love it. And the sunbirds come to your window and try and build a nest in your front doorway. Yeah.
Tina Strachan:Oh well, it's a very special residency and I think we feel very grateful to, um, have be part of it on this second year that it's been like, oh, been here for. So thank you. Thank you so much. And to the Roderick Centre.
Nicole Crowe:My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks guys. Go forth. Do fabulous work. Eat the cheese.
Tina Strachan:Thank you for listening to the Book Deal podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the pod so you can receive updates as soon as our new S drop and to keep up to date with what the pod is doing. You can also find us on Instagram.