Dr. Rick LeCouteur

In this engaging conversation, Dr. Rick LeCouteur and I explore themes of wildlife conservation, the importance of empathy in children, and the role of storytelling in educating young readers. We discuss LeCouteur's book, 'Nasty Names Are Hurtful,' which addresses bullying and conservation through the lens of a misunderstood bird, the Australian white ibis. The dialogue emphasizes the need for authentic children's literature that fosters a connection to nature and encourages empathy among the younger generation. The discussion highlights our shared passions for wildlife conservation and education, culminating in a call to inspire the next generation.
Dr. Rick's book(s) can be found at www.rickleouteur.com

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com and on Twitter at @drcliff_vet
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:00)

In this episode, I sit down and talk with Dr. Rick as we explore themes of wildlife conservation, the importance of empathy in children, and the role of storytelling in educating young readers. most importantly, we discuss Dr. Rick's children's book, Nasty Names Are Hurtful, which addresses bullying and conservation through the lens of a misunderstood bird, the Australian white ibis.

Be sure to stay tuned.

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:32)

Nice to talk. Nice to see you. I love that mothash.

Rick LeCouteur (00:34)

well, it covers a lot of faults. I hide behind it most of the time. I love you, beard. So there you go, we're even. You've got obviously a lot more to hide than I do.

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:43)

does it? Thank you. Thank you. There you go. There you go. I guess so. I got a nice chin, but I don't know. The story, and a lot of people have heard this already, but I became a single man eight years ago after 21 years of marriage. And I love my ex-wife. She gave me three wonderful children. And she was right that we would be happier divorced.

But she never liked facial hair. So I never had any facial hair because I want to make my wife happy. I think that's important. But of course, the second I became single, I'm going to see if I can grow a beard. And boy, did I ever. It looked like a raccoon was stuck to my face for a while. I had this giant beard. And my father's had a beard his entire adult life, or almost, certainly as long as I can remember.

Rick LeCouteur (01:15)

Wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:40)

And so now I'm the favorite because I've got the beard just like him.

Rick LeCouteur (01:44)

Absolutely. Well, I'm imagining you now in the Black Mountains with that beard. Have I got the right picture?

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:52)

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty close. One of the jokes is I grew the beard because about four years ago I took up surfing. Now I'm in Toronto, so we surf on Lake Ontario. The lake is so big that, yeah, as you know, the lake is so big that it gets waves, but the best waves are in January and February. So the beard keeps me warm and...

If it's well below zero, I will have a giant ice beard by the end of it. That's really the reason why I do it.

Rick LeCouteur (02:24)

Yeah, well, you know, I knew you were going to be cool and now I'm in no doubt whatsoever. It's so nice to meet you and to learn that you have three kids and what ages are they now?

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:30)

I think so, maybe.

So I have twin boys. They are going to be turning 26 in the next couple of weeks, in about four weeks actually. Nicholas is three minutes older, so he's the first born. And then, so that's Nicholas and Brandon, and then my daughter Emily, who does a lot of traveling with me and is an animal rescuer and helps me save animals' lives around the world. She is, I gotta think about this.

She's gonna be turning 24 in February. So they're all out of the house. They're all out of the house and employed and chasing their dreams and not sure what their dreams are and having fun trying to figure that out. It's great watching them navigate this world.

Rick LeCouteur (03:11)

Fantastic.

Yeah, it really is too. So I learned a lot about you in those few words, but you know, Cliff, this is supposed to be you interviewing me. So I would keep going because I just, I love meeting people and particularly in researching who I was going to be talking to this morning. I mean, we have so many...

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:36)

That's right.

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (03:52)

convergent points in our histories and futures. It's just remarkable actually. mean to mention wildlife and conservation and small animal practice and as just a few plus of course not forgetting our common roots at the Ontario Veterinary College.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:14)

Yeah, and what a great story. I'd love, we're definitely going to talk about your book, of course, but I'd love for you to tell the listeners the story you told me, because talk about stubbornness in a good sense. Like, go go out and get what you want. There was, yeah, please.

Rick LeCouteur (04:26)

Hahaha!

Cliff, we like to call that persistence. It's a lot.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:38)

Well, you know.

Rick LeCouteur (04:39)

You know, in treating, I noticed that emergency care is one of your interests and you know that in treating a brain to a brain trauma in a dog or a cat or any species, the three priorities are that you should have patience. I used to tell the students the three P's of brain trauma and you'll see what happens here. So I used to tell them patience, persistence and

time. And so, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's, so that would see if they were listening and sure enough, one of the five young ladies in the front row would put up their hand and say, but time doesn't begin with P. And I said, well, I will, I will persist in trying to

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:09)

They go, wait a minute.

Rick LeCouteur (05:32)

rectify that and I appreciate your patience while I do it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:37)

Very, very good. Very, very good. Well, so this book, actually, we also share, although you're successful at it in the whole literature side of it, I'm in the middle of writing a memoirs about all my travels. And it's as much self therapy and cathartic as I think anything, but maybe one day we'll see each other at a author's convention.

Rick LeCouteur (05:52)

good.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:03)

But your book, Nasty Words, is it Nasty Words Are Hurtful or Nasty Names? Nasty Names Are Hurtful. What a beautiful children's story about, it starts off being sad, about bullying, and then how you can handle it and how you can persevere over it. And then this amazing, not so subtle lesson about conservationism and...

Rick LeCouteur (06:08)

Nasty names are hurtful.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:29)

How did you get into this? Please tell everybody about this book.

Rick LeCouteur (06:33)

Well, it's my third book. I appreciate you saying that I'm successful. I think as a writer, author, illustrator, success still eludes me. However, I'm successful in my own lunchtime. And at some stage, that's all that matters. know, Cliff with 300,000.

children's picture books being published in North America every year, 300,000, particularly with AI generated books now and with self publishing. It's very difficult to get your book out there, to be noticed, to be recognized. And there's a good deal of serendipity in that, in being found, but...

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:04)

Wow.

Rick LeCouteur (07:26)

part of it is establishing a brand. If Jimmy Fallon or Prime Minister Trudeau write a children's picture book, it can sell a million copies overnight. When Rick Lakuta writes a children's book, maybe five or six overnight, and those would be my closest family members, excluding my brother who would never buy a book that I had written. And so,

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:46)

and digit.

Rick LeCouteur (07:51)

With that in mind, success is relative. this book, Nasty Names Are Hurtful was generated because I was in Sydney, Australia, my hometown or the biggest city near to where I was born and raised in the country. And there are tons of Australian white ibis roaming the streets and people are really mean to them. They have all sorts of names for them. They call them bin chickens and picnic pirates and

and all sorts of horrible names. The kids throw stones at them or chase them. And this bird is much maligned in the city.

I think this is a beautiful bird. You and I see things in wildlife that perhaps everybody else doesn't see, but it's just magnificent. So I set about to find out its story. Well, people used to call it, and these days it's considered a less than nice term to use. They used to call them immigrants. They're not immigrants. They were in Australia long before the first human ever arrived.

They got on beautifully with the Aboriginals as they did with the ancient Egyptians. The Ibis used to roam the streets of ancient Rome and the people loved it. So this bird's not new on the scene, but when white people came to Australia, they decided to dry up all the wetlands, the natural habitat from this bird, and to farm wheat and sheep and cattle. So this bird almost became extinct.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:05)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (09:30)

But it went to a couple of zoos where they were going to preserve the species. A few of them escaped from the zoos and the rest is history. They found the parks and natural reserves in the big cities and they absolutely thrived. As a matter of fact, they talk about resilience and adaptation to a new environment. They're more than thriving. They found

date palms, palm trees, and that's where they live. And these date palms or palm trees with their fronds and big branches mimic for them their natural environment. So they do very, very well. And by the way, most of the rubbish that they're reputed to be eating is dropped on the streets by humans. And so from ancient Rome where

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:20)

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (10:25)

where the Ibis used to be celebrated and worshiped and is found in ancient hieroglyphs on the walls of tombs and pyramids.

to today where kids can't appreciate this. And I just thought there was a message there. I don't like the word moral for a story because it sounds a little bit spiritual to me, but there's a message and we all know about messages and we message one another. So it's a common term. And the message is take another look at this bird. This bird is resilient, adaptable and successful. And you don't need to worship this bird, but...

Help this bird, help to reestablish some wetlands near the city that the bird can live in. It doesn't want to be in the streets of Sydney. would far rather, I am anthropomorphizing as one must do to really appreciate wildlife and animals. If you don't put yourself into the animal's place, you're missing out on a lot. And I know you would agree with me on that.

We both do what we do because we want to preserve these species for our grandchildren. so anyway, that's the story behind it. And I decided to have all of the protagonists as birds. And because I thought to stay within that species would.

give some validity to the story, but all the birds look different. So there's diversity from parrots to ravens to rock doves and so on. And so, yeah, I hope it sends a message. Cliff, you're finding something out about me. I can talk a lot. But just to finish your question, these days...

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:53)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (12:08)

My grandkids have fewer opportunities to get to the outdoors than I did. People are concerned about safety and all sorts of, and there are predators out there, let's face it. So parents are very protective of their kids and kids get less access to the outdoors. Another factor in that is of course that they bring the outdoors indoors through their screens. They all have iPads and televisions and.

Some of them have iPhones far too early in life. And so they're spending all this screen time and many parents think that might be a replacement for what you and I do, but it doesn't come close. And so my goal here, and I know you're about to ask me that, my purpose in doing this is to bring what you and I do into the realm of children's...

books so that they can read these books with a parent and appreciate one animal at a time if you like. The beauty of nature, the incredible beauty of nature, the wonder of nature. And so that's all about the book. I think I achieved that goal in

in many ways, but until I get this book or you and I get this book out to as many young readers as we possibly can, then we're not really fulfilling our mission. And I'm done there now. Long answer to quite a simple question.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:47)

I love it. I love it. I'm glad that you're chatty. It makes audio podcasts move along a whole lot better. And the reality is, is I need to work on my listening skills. I've been as I, as I, might, that might be something that my ex used to say as well. She doesn't, she doesn't listen to this podcast. Maybe, I don't know.

Rick LeCouteur (13:58)

You

Well, she's missing something.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:08)

She's maybe, yeah, who knows? Who knows? Maybe I'm sure my kids listen to it, so they'll probably say something. But as I listen back to old podcasts, one of the things I do pick up is, Cliff, you just need to be quiet. Just stop. Let the person talk. So here I am. already talking more than I need to. You know, the great thing about this book, though, is it's not just a story of conservationism and these beautiful animals.

Rick LeCouteur (14:25)

you

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:38)

and this, the story of this ibis, but it does talk a lot about bullying and not only how to respond to it. you know, that whole sticks and stones may break my bones, but names in this case are hurtful. but also it was, it was amazing in picking up or, or showing that the, the, the, bullies who are throwing out these hurtful names.

The ibis is going, wait a minute. You're making fun of me for eating out of the garbage, but I see you eating out of the garbage. And, you know, or you're the ones that put it there. So, you know, it, it, it's a great lesson that, why is that child bullying my child? You know, and, and, and it allows us to, you know, be empathetic. and I think that's a great thing about showing children.

Rick LeCouteur (15:15)

Ha

That's exactly right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:35)

cause often it's a little bit harder, changing, you know, older dogs learning new tricks. let's start with the kids and get them to grow up to be empathetic. And if we can give them empathy through the care and the appreciation and the love of animals, then what an amazing world we're going to have. Right. And, and, and so kudos to you for using this, this platform, this, these, this writing ability and the illustrations are incredible in this book.

Absolutely beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (16:06)

So thank you, Cliff. That means a lot because I know I've read a lot about your background in wildlife and conservation and your volunteerism is truly inspiring. so I love Dr. Cliff worldwide and I think you're doing a fantastic job of...

the same things that I would like to be doing. We're just choosing slightly different ways to reach people. And for me, the hope of the future is our youngsters. And I got into this because I was reading books to my grandkids as they went to bed. And I love doing that. There's nothing like having a captive audience in a quiet environment, hanging on every word. And of course, grandpa pretty

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:34)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Rick LeCouteur (16:59)

It's pretty amazing that he has that opportunity to share this time as well. But I can show you the book that changed everything. I bought it. Is that back to front to you?

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:07)

Please.

No, no, it's good Tony Bologna, pen pal. All right, so.

Rick LeCouteur (17:15)

Yeah, Tony Belloni, pen pal. And so this book, I'm just going to show you, I'm going to randomly choose a page without looking. And here's Tony Belloni at school having a pizza party. So my grandkids were not getting the message that penguins are magnificent animals. They live in a very harsh environment.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:28)

so... Beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (17:42)

The adaptability and the resilience of those birds is unbelievable. Humans are threatening them through bird flu and a lot of other things. We have a lot to answer for. Climate change is reducing their habitat day by day. It used to be month by month, but now it's day by day. And so there are so many lessons with penguins and yet these penguins in this book that I was reading to them were just little humans.

And I think that's supposed to be a macaroni penguin because of the little feathers on the top of the head, but it doesn't look anything like a baby macaroni penguin. there are, and plus it has a plush toy in its arms and it's holding a letter. Penguin's thoracic limbs are flippers.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:17)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (18:34)

You can't hold it anyway. So many things wrong with this. However, fantastical whimsical books are so important for kids because it teaches them to laugh with the person who they're reading it with. And that's that's a bond that comes through humor and bright colors and whimsical stuff. And that's good. However, I believe and research over the last 20 years would support the fact

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:51)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (19:01)

that they need a little bit of realistic, authentic information as well. And so I would love my books to be read side by side with the whimsical and the fantastical. And the question was about the illustrations. They're all taken from photographs that I've taken. I started with a, I was lucky enough to be included in the starting of a travel and expedition company called Veterinary Expeditions.

back in 10 or 15 years ago with the owner of the company who's a woman, a remarkable woman by the name of Dr. Carol Walton. She's a vet who lives in Texas at the moment. But Carol and I worked to start this company and the idea was that we would educate veterinarians the way you do about the world around them and also get them out of their practices, let them see

the larger world of animals. And it worked like that for a while, but eventually we now have more non-veterinarians coming than veterinarians. And we go to lots of interesting places from Borneo to Africa to the Antarctic and so on. But it was on these trips that I started to learn photography because there were so many good photographers along and I became obsessed with it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:21)

Mm.

Rick LeCouteur (20:25)

and I wanted to be a wildlife photographer, well, that's another story to reach. That would be like me saying, I want to play in the Canadian Football League tomorrow. That's how unattainable it is for a 73 year old to become a wildlife photographer, although not impossible. I won't say that. Yeah, but very difficult. So I called myself a conservation photographer.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:36)

Ha ha.

not impossible

Rick LeCouteur (20:53)

and tried to take photos of animals to spread the word of their environment and some of the problems they face. And so that's where the illustrations for the books come from. They're derived from authentic photographs. I use the photographs to gain perspective and the realistic aspects. And then I turn them into line drawings and colorize them. And they're not...

particularly colorful, but you know, the Antarctic is not particularly colorful. And the Ibis book is actually the most colorful one yet because they live in parks, which are green. And so I had to add a little more color, but the illustration part of it has a purpose. It's to bring authenticity about the environment into kids books. And as I say, I'm not trying to displace any existing

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:28)

Mm.

Rick LeCouteur (21:47)

trends or accepted practices, I'm trying to add a dimension to those. you know, I'm going to show you another book, if I may, is that okay? This is illustrated by a friend of mine and written by an Australian author by the name of Jackie French. And they write about all sorts of things, floods, fires, and everything else.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:59)

Mm-hmm, absolutely.

Rick LeCouteur (22:15)

But this particular book is about plague, a locust plague. And I read, I looked at this book and here's, whoops, here's, I have to go up. Here's what I saw. Beautiful, authentic illustrations. They're just gorgeous. And look over in the corner here. There's the Australian white ibis living in harmony with the Aboriginal people. And look at these.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:27)

There we go, Wow.

Rick LeCouteur (22:45)

beautiful drawings. They're reminiscent of some from my book, aren't they? And so it's unbelievable. And then of course they depict what happens when the settlers come and cut down all the trees and dry up the wetlands. So that's what I would call an authentic book for kids. Whereas on the other extreme, this is the latest book.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:46)

Gorgeous. Yes.

Rick LeCouteur (23:09)

about Australian white ibis that is just taking Australia by storm. This is the third or fourth book in this series by these authors. And as you can see, pictures are quite unrealistic. Lions and zebras sharing an environment with an Australian white ibis covered in cotton candy just doesn't

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:27)

They're cartoonish.

Rick LeCouteur (23:39)

have that authenticity that I think kids demand. And then this is my book and I'll just open it at a random page. That's some of the other birds who call cause names. so I think there's there are the ibis in the palm trees and there's one in a city fountain and it just brings home to kids that we need to

preserve these animals and their natural habitat for generations to come. It's just so important. And I'm talking to a wider audience and I would think most of the people who listen to your podcast are already sold on this principle, but we need to take care of the youngsters, the young readers, the next generation, because without us, it's not going to happen.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:29)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (24:36)

That's one of the important things your podcasts do.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:39)

Yeah, I appreciate that. And here's the great opportunity, right? Like, yes, the people that listen to my podcast are lovers of animals and interested in the environment and conserving wildlife and endangered species and whatnot.

But how do they, they all appreciate, all of us appreciate ways of spreading that message. And here's a great way for you to spread that message if you have young children at home and bond with them, teach them. I learned stuff reading this book about it's, you know, the Ibis's connection with the Aboriginal people and the Ibis's connection with ancient Egypt.

And it was a symbol of the, I'm going to say it wrong, troth. Was troth the name? Thoth, the name of the god.

Rick LeCouteur (25:25)

Thoth. Yeah, you've got to be absolutely sober to say that word. Thoth.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:32)

thought, thought. Like it was fascinating and it, and it, it, it, I mean, I'm going to say it, it inspires me further, right? Like you can take these tiny little, tiny little pearls of wisdom from other veterinarians or from other people and, and, you know, still learn more and become more passionate about, about the things that you're passionate about. So.

So I absolutely love it. So this is your third book. What are the other two named? What are they about?

Rick LeCouteur (26:03)

Well, I came prepared for that question. So the first book I wrote has not been published yet, but I'm going to because I've had a lot of...

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:07)

Perfect.

called Animal Alphabet. Beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (26:17)

called Animal Alphabet and I'm going to work on that in the new year and add it to my existing books. Absolutely. yeah, I mean, there, let me show you. This is the only copy in existence, but I can print more, it's obviously, but I printed these myself just for the grandkids.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:24)

Now did you take all those photos? So.

I would say I...

They're beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (26:44)

I've got to ask you a question. What would you put in a book, an animal alphabet book for X?

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:54)

no. Cause it's always x-ray and that's, that's not, that's, that's, is that? No. Not that I know of. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (26:56)

Hahaha

It's always the X-ray fish. And have you ever seen, yeah, have you ever seen an X-ray fish? I mean, you'd have to be a fish to see them, right? So humans don't, yeah, so what would you do for X? I'm not gonna torture you. It took me a long time. I almost didn't finish the book. And then I came up with...

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:13)

I don't know. I don't know, what do you do?

The Oxpecker. All right.

Rick LeCouteur (27:23)

And I cheated and I had the second, the second letter, but it's still phonetically a good X, oxpecker. And it's a strong X, which we all aspire to have. so that's the little red-billed oxpecker. And it's a story about how he befriends a rhinoceros.

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:26)

second

Yes, it's a hard X. It's a good. Yeah. Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (27:47)

because they find they have mutual benefit for one another and they become really close friends. And the message of course is that you can make friends with somebody 2,000 times your size and of a different species if you meet in the middle. And so these two, it's a story about friendship and so on. And by the way, I love the little octet. It's my favorite bird. Then I decided to start making illustrations and this was my...

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:03)

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (28:17)

This was my second book, which funnily enough was about the Oxpecker. And again, I just made that for the grandkids. But from there, I actually became serious about it. By the way, we're talking about the span of nine years. my next two books were one about the flightless cormorant in the Galapagos. Norman wants to fly. And then the other one is Penguin Pen Pals.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:18)

second book.

Beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (28:44)

You know where the inspiration for that came from and that's Tony Belloni who had pen pals but he posted the letters. These guys magically communicate with one another and three different species of penguin become pen pals decide across the across the written word that they're all absolutely the same and they say things like isn't it amazing that we're so much the same.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:46)

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (29:11)

because they tell each other they're black and white and they tell each other they swim for krill and they tell each other all these stories. The leopard seal is their worst, their most feared predator and all of that stuff. So these three different species of penguin, a gentoo, a chinstrap and an Adélie, all think they're the same. So let's get together and meet. So they arrange to meet, they go to the appointed time and each of them thinks the other two didn't turn up.

because they don't look the same. So one of them yells out the other two's names and they turn around and they say, how do you know our names? Well, I'm your pen pal. And then one of them says, this is absolutely terrible. How can we be friends now? We're different. And so they start to walk away in different directions and one stops and says, wait, we already are friends.

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:40)

you

Rick LeCouteur (30:08)

And that's the message of the book that friendship again, acceptance, diversity, friendship knows no bounds, you know.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:18)

And you're going to publish this, right? Good. Good. That one's. Yeah. Penguin pen pals.

Rick LeCouteur (30:20)

it's already published. That's this one. no. Wait a second. Now I'm confused. Yeah, that's one that's already published. That's this one, Penguin Pemper.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:29)

Okay, because that's, what an amazing, what an amazing message. I almost said the other word. What an amazing message. Like moral, the bad word. No, that's beautiful. my goodness. I'm getting misty eyed here. So nice. So nice. I love how realistic they are. So how...

Rick LeCouteur (30:43)

And that's what the illustrations look like for that one.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:52)

First of all, I don't think I'm going to see you on the CFL field anytime, anytime soon. And I do appreciate you giving us a little CFL shout out Canadian Football League. I'm a big fan of the Toronto Argonauts. love it. Got it right. You got it. I hate the Hamilton Tiger cats, but why? Why do we hate them so much? They're just like us. They just look a little different. They just, but anyways, that's a little bit, that's a little different.

Rick LeCouteur (31:07)

It was my team too when I lived in Canada.

Ow.

I see a children's book coming on about the CFL right there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:24)

Maybe, maybe, but like, I think you're a wildlife photographer. I think you hit it. You just don't know it because those photos are spectacular. Like, what do you need for you to feel like a wildlife photographer? I think you're already there.

Rick LeCouteur (31:39)

That's interesting. Thank you, Cliff. I mean, we should talk more often. I'm feeling a lot better about my photography just on those few words alone. to me, a wildlife photographer is someone who dedicates their life to sitting in a damp, dark spot with fear of being bitten by a snake and waiting for that one moment that is...

is unmistakably unique. For me, I've written about photography and I've said, for me, it's a matter of being lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. And so your luck increases when your exposure to the possibilities increases. And so I've been very fortunate the last 10 or 15 years to spend a lot of time in many, many countries.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:09)

Hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (32:35)

ostensibly teaching small group of small groups of expeditioners or travelers about the wildlife, but every day learning far more than anybody I'm lecturing to or talking to or showing the animals to. And so the photography followed naturally, but I'm not dedicated to that as a primary purpose. Whereas the children's book writing, that's that's become my primary

my primary purpose. just, I'm absolutely obsessed. I'm excited every day. I wake up early, early, five o'clock, 5.30, just can't get started quickly enough. It's, my wife has suggested that perhaps it's a little bit too obsessive because I will do almost anything to avoid being taken away from anything to do with wildlife and children's books. And so,

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:27)

Ha

Rick LeCouteur (33:32)

But I think it's what I was meant to do. I was like you, I read somewhere that you said you'd wanted to be a veterinarian from a very early age. And that was the same with me. And in my day, which was a little before yours, we weren't offered the opportunities to see what else we might have been.

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:45)

Hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (33:57)

I loved writing and I loved drawing, but nobody ever suggested to me that I should be an artist or a writer or an author. And turns out now I've probably rediscovered something I should have been doing my entire life. It's never too late and I have no regrets. You cannot have regrets. You cannot look back and say, wish or what if. However, I'm worried I'm going to run out of time before I can get all these books.

into the mainstream. so you're you're having me on today is one step towards establishing the brand that I need to to prevail with these wonderful things that you and I both believe in conservation, biodiversity, environment. I can't say them all. And wildlife. I can't say those four words often enough.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:49)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (34:50)

They tend to come up in every conversation I ever have as I think probably is true for you because we're passionate. We're curious and we're passionate. And so I'm a very lucky person. You know, if I was a celebrity author, my books would probably reach bestseller status based on my brand alone.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:59)

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (35:17)

I don't have a brand. used to have a brand in veterinary medicine, which was a very small community, but that was for doing things like operating brain tumors and doing spinal surgery. What I find with the modern day is a brand is very, very important. You can write a terrible book.

Cliff, you know this, you can write a book that has zero redeeming qualities. And if you have worked your whole life to establish your brand, like so many celebrities have, that book will sell millions of copies overnight. so branding is so important. However, it's more the content of the books that drives me.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:40)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (36:05)

I want to provide books that are not only fun for the kids to read, but carry a message and provide a basis for parents to discuss some of these things with their kids. In all my books, I put a little section at the back, which is what can you do? And the discussion points for the parents to have with the kids.

And with the Ibis book, mean, they're pretty straightforward. I'll actually show you that right at the back. I know you've seen the book, but there's what can you do for the Ibis? And there things like...

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:41)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (36:48)

discourage feeding the ibises and leaving food scraps or trash around. Ensure that garbage lids are securely, know, trash lids are securely fastened. Things that kids can do and they can encourage one another without being the police, you know what I'm saying? And so, and there's also a section in all my books for the parents to read, hopefully before they read the book. And it's just...

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:05)

Yeah, yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (37:15)

two pages about the information for parents and teachers. And that enables them to be informed about this bird so that when the child says, what's an ibis or why do they live in the city, they're prepared to answer those questions. So I noticed that one of your passions was education. One of the reasons you do the Dr. Cliff Worldwide.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:36)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (37:40)

YouTube channel show is because of education. Actually, that was the first thing you listed on your bio and I totally identify with that. What greater legacy could you leave? Not that leaving a legacy is important, but it's important to some people.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:46)

Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Rick LeCouteur (38:02)

And it's become important to me because I want my legacy to be this appreciation for the things we've discussed. I love that one of the other four points for you was advocacy for wildlife conservation. through your work, your podcasts and your YouTube channel and so on, that shows dramatically. And I think that will come through in a book that you will write.

And I'll be here for you to offer words of encouragement, unless you happen to have a publisher living next door, which is I was not blessed with a publisher, even in the whole town really that I live in. it the publishing end of it has eluded me. It would make my job a lot easier because then I could spend a lot more time.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:34)

Ha.

Mmm.

Rick LeCouteur (38:50)

writing the books rather than having to promote the books and so on. So anyway, it's circular discussion that always comes back to the starting point of wildlife, conservation, biodiversity, education, young minds, and it's just...

Who could ask for more? I spent my life teaching 25 to 35 year olds about veterinary medicine and that was incredibly rewarding. But no one told me what it's like to provide education to kids. It's just brilliant. Thank goodness we have so many dedicated primary school and kindergarten teachers around North America who dedicate their lives for long hours and

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:27)

Ha

Rick LeCouteur (39:41)

under recognition and poor salaries to do this for our kids. You know, I gave a lecture to a group of local teachers. wasn't a lecture. I presented a discussion. A lecture sounds as though I know what I'm talking about. To a group of educators, teachers in my little hometown here. the title of the presentation was

Will your grandchildren be able to see a lion in the wild? And if we continue on our present path, they won't. But it's not too late. That's the optimistic part of this. It's not too late. And the generation that's coming through now, the five to 10 year olds of today, I'm so confident and yet hopeful that they will be the ones to make the difference.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:14)

Yeah.

Yeah, I think our future is very bright with them. think they've got the passion and they're obviously the intelligence and we'll have the maturity and then they're going to have things available to them that you and I didn't have obviously with the way the world is opening up to them. But this is a great, are...

Rick LeCouteur (40:49)

including, I'm sorry, I was going to interrupt you there, including, including, we hope, authentic, realistic children's picture books about animals and the memoirs of a wonderful wildlife advocate. So we've got to, we've got to keep encouraging each other because these are worthwhile goals. What, what greater purpose could you have than to, than to be involved in that?

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:00)

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, hopefully.

Yeah.

Well, I'll definitely, you know, in the next few days I'll reach out to you on email and I can connect you to, the publisher that I'm talking to. cause they, they also do children's books and, you've already got, you know, a footprint. You've got this proof of co- well, it's more than a proof of concept. You've got this amazing, these three books are incredible. And, and I think the ones prior that you haven't.

that you haven't published, you're only sharing with your grandchildren, I think need to be considered as well. In the meantime, for those that don't have the patience to wait until then, these books are obviously available to the average person, right? How do they find them? How do they purchase them?

Rick LeCouteur (42:00)

They're available through most of the big sellers and I think both Amazon and Barnes and Noble are active in Canada, but many of the other bookstores and if you go to the bookstore and they don't have it on the shelf, which is often the case because

Dr. Cliff Redford (42:09)

Beautiful.

Rick LeCouteur (42:23)

think of the number that they'd have to deal with. They wouldn't have a store big enough. But they're available online and pretty rapid turnaround in North America. It takes a little longer if you live in Australia or France. But in Canada and the US, where Amazon is one unit, basically, they're available on Amazon. And the best way to

find links to the books and take a little look inside the books is not necessarily to go directly to the online stores like Amazon and Barnes and Noble or to go to even boutique bookstores can order these books in but to go to my website where you can see the links to all the places that

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:08)

Mm-hmm.

Rick LeCouteur (43:12)

provide, supply these books. You can read a little about the books before you order them. so my website, I'm happy for you to share it with everybody who's listening, but it's Rick LeCouter, one word, all small letters. And remember that it's spelt the Montreal way with two U's, LeCouter.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:25)

Please.

Rick LeCouteur (43:38)

So it's EUR, not ER. People make that mistake and then claim I don't have a website at all. dot com. So Rick Lacouto, one word, dot com. And that will give you access to everything you wanted to know about me and a lot of things that you probably aren't interested in about me and and so on. I have a blog on there which which

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:49)

and I'll.

Rick LeCouteur (44:05)

I was looking through because I thought I'd written something about your part of the world in there. And indeed I did. I wrote a blog way, way back. Probably when I, the first four or five blogs I wrote, it was very early and it was about jumping off the cliff in the Alora quarry near Guelph. And so you can.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:28)

yes.

Rick LeCouteur (44:34)

You can look that one up and it may bring back some memories of Guelph in the old days to you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:39)

Yeah. Yeah. What a beautiful, beautiful town or city. Absolutely. I will.

Rick LeCouteur (44:43)

But my blog is on there. You will be on there under the media section because I want people to find your work too. So the three or four people who read my website every year will probably be looking you up.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:48)

Perfect.

I appreciate that. will add the link, the direct link to your website so those that can't spell a couture the French way, le couture, they can just do it. It'll be at the bottom of the, or at the information section of this podcast episode. This has been amazing. I am constantly...

Rick LeCouteur (45:14)

That's fantastic, thank you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:20)

Pleasantly surprised and thank goodness. I'm constantly surprised at at the amazing people I'm meeting on on these podcasts and and you and I aren't that different But we have some differences and yet we've become friends just like the just like the three penguins

Rick LeCouteur (45:36)

Yeah, know, Cliff, like mines, it's a great way to get to know somebody because on the one hand, it's a little bit validating because we're both a little bit obsessed with our love of conservation, wildlife, the outdoors and all those things. yet, so it lets us.

There's a reason to want to get to know each other better. And I think that's fabulous to find common ground. And as you say, that's exactly what happened with the penguins. And it's a great lesson for all of us, particularly in this day and age where things are a little topsy turvy at the moment.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:05)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, very good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they are. yeah, with that, we'll close out by saying, you know, be kind to each other and recognize that the differences is what makes us, I think, special and fascinating to one another. you know, reach out to that person or that animal that might be too, don't reach out to the animal that's 2000 times bigger than you, but our differences are bringing us together. I guess that's what I need to, that's what I need to say. Dr. Rick, it's been an absolute pleasure.

And let's talk regularly and for sure, if, or I will say when my memoir gets eventually published, I will not sell one to you. will send it off as a gift because you've helped inspire me to keep, keep chasing, chasing my passions. I appreciate that very much.

Rick LeCouteur (47:04)

Well, back at you. I thank you for all the work you do and I thank you for having me on the podcast and I look forward to promoting your memoir. think it's a must do for you. I think the world will be a poorer place if you do not complete that task.

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:24)

Yeah, we're almost done. It's 85,000 words done out of the a hundred thousand. it's, yeah, it'll be done by the end of the end of this year for sure. Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (47:30)

Fantastic. you know, Cliff, that's congratulations. I look forward to it and I'd be quite happy to purchase one.

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:39)

Appreciate it.

Now that's okay. Maybe I'll hand it off to you in person. I'll find some time to head down to California and

Rick LeCouteur (47:53)

Or I come up your way occasionally. I was married to...

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:56)

All right.

Rick LeCouteur (47:58)

to a Canadian from Montreal. Her parents were from the Maritimes and I got married during my years at Guelph to Jackie. And she and I had a wonderful life together until she passed away from breast cancer and after 20 plus years. And so I used to visit her parents there in Mississauga, but they've both passed on.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:21)

Yeah.

Rick LeCouteur (48:24)

but still have a lot of friends at Guelph who I keep in touch with. it would be lovely to take a trip down memory lane and drop in at Markham and see you in your natural habitat.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:39)

There you go. There you go. Or I'll meet you up at Guelph and we can go, we can go check out the cannon.

Rick LeCouteur (48:44)

Yeah, exactly. Or we could maybe jump off the quarry, but they've fenced it off now, I understand.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:50)

there's ways around it. I'm not encouraging that though. Thank you very much, Rick. We're definitely, I'm sure we're, I have a feeling we're going to meet in person someday soon.

Rick LeCouteur (48:53)

No.

I sincerely hope so, Cliff. It's been a pleasure and an honour.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:05)

Yeah.