Ashley The Vet Nurse

Summary

In this episode of Vet Life, Dr. Cliff Redford speaks with Ashley, a veterinary technician known as Ashley the Vet Nurse. They discuss Ashley's journey in the veterinary field, the increasing demand for veterinary professionals, and the importance of building relationships within veterinary care. The conversation also touches on the daily life of a vet tech, handling client complaints, and the emotional challenges faced in the profession. Ashley shares her aspirations to travel and conduct spay and neuter clinics, emphasizing the need for more recognition and support for veterinary technicians.

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:00)

Hey everyone. Welcome again to another episode of vet life with Dr. Cliff. I'm Dr. Cliff. We've had some good guests lately and Ashley is another great one. You can follow her on Instagram at Ashley the vet nurse. And yes, you guessed it. She's a veterinary technician

and just a wonderful woman and person to speak to. So stay tuned. I know you're going to enjoy it.

AshleytheVetNurse (00:35)

Well, it's nice to meet you, Dr. Cliff.

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:37)

Nice to meet you. Thanks for being here. This is exciting. This is exciting. You know what? Let's jump right into this. Why don't you first tell all our listeners who you are, how they can follow your cool content, and then we'll go from there.

AshleytheVetNurse (00:40)

Yeah, no problem.

Well, my name is Ashley. Most people on the internet know me as Ashley the Vet Nurse and I am on Instagram and I sometimes post on TikTok.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:01)

Very nice, good stuff. Yeah, I wanted you on here. You're, I mean, obviously you're a vet tech, but you're headed to vet school. Is that right? No, no.

AshleytheVetNurse (01:11)

Mm-mm, mm-mm, not me, no. No, honestly,

I wish I had gone to vet school or thought about it. I became a vet tech in 2013, and in 2013, it was not a good time for vets. They were struggling. It was like, we get out of school, they had non-competes even within their externship programs.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:21)

Uh-huh.

AshleytheVetNurse (01:37)

They were working for five years to pay off student loans. They were pretty miserable. And I feel like that was not a good indicator for me to go to vet school. But now I'm jealous, right? Now, know, vets are needed. Everybody wants a vet. Everybody wants to be a vet. You can work from home, basically, in some triage, virtual triage cases. You can work per diem. You can work travel. And you're not stuck in all of these non-competes.

basically getting paid more appropriately than you were 10 years ago. So I wish I was going to vet school because now it seems appetizing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:13)

What's stopping you? Let's go for it.

AshleytheVetNurse (02:17)

To be honest, I don't know if I want to go back to school. I think if I went to school to a vet, it would literally just be to do surgery at this point. like I said, like 10 years ago, I think to be a vet, you do need to be business minded.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:18)

you

AshleytheVetNurse (02:40)

Unfortunately, you can work for all these great companies, but before you needed to own your own practice in order to really make the decisions you wanted and practice the medicine that you wanted. And I just don't know if I want to own my own business or get that far, but I don't think being a vet is for me. I just like helping.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:58)

Being a vet nurse is pretty amazing and I'm always inspired by the stuff you and your colleagues post. A lot of this stuff I'm like, I can't do that. I don't know how. Like it's incredible that the skills that you guys have. And I think it's, I think it's a sign of sort of age as well. And although I take my continuing education very seriously and I'm constantly trying to improve my skills, it's

AshleytheVetNurse (03:10)

is

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:27)

primarily in the wildlife world now that I've sort of started volunteering at the wildlife shelter or rehab place near my clinic. So yeah, some of the drugs and the techniques. I have a friend of mine, I've talked about her on the podcast before, Linda. Linda was what we would call a clinic trained technician at Wellington and she now has moved with her husband to Texas, he's from Texas.

And this was maybe a year ago. Hi, Linda, if you're listening and, uh, she might be working for a better merge group. that who you work with? Yeah. Yeah. So I think she's working with a vet emerge group and they've got her on a program where they're helping her go to tech school and get her skills and whatnot. But like, she's sending me these cases. She's like, look, I got to scrub in on this diaphragmatic hernia.

AshleytheVetNurse (04:04)

Yes, I do work currently for a veterinary emergency group.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:25)

I was just like, man, could you take pictures and teach me how to do that? So kudos to you. And look, the reality is, is yes, veterinarian students when they graduate now can pretty much write their ticket on, it's like, I want this, this and this. And veterinarians are in such demand, but so are, I don't know how it is in the US, but in Toronto and in Canada, so are veterinary technicians in incredibly high demand.

AshleytheVetNurse (04:50)

Well, think,

yeah, I think that's a really good point. You know, there's been a few articles or something published that, you know, the demand for veterinarians has gone up 125%. I don't know if you've seen that. And unfortunately, I was like, oh, that's great. But I'm like, no one's talking about the increase or demand of veterinarians is going up. Well, is the increase for demand for veterinary nurses or technicians going up?

And I thought that was a little bit of a miss there. know, like I think it's fantastic for veterinarians that they're so in need. know, people are replacing their kids with pets daily. And unfortunately, I think they missed a little bit that, you know, they missed it a little bit because it's going to increase the for technicians. And I think that just in order to get licensed protection throughout all the states and get us licensed in all the states and really increase the demand,

Now we got to step it up. We got to step it up there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:47)

Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, my clinic, there's only one and a half veterinarians. work full time and then my associate Dr. Iran works part time. but we're able to handle a massive load of cases because we have five technicians working for us. and then an amazing front desk team and ACA team, but,

AshleytheVetNurse (06:07)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:13)

You know, I'm sort of the, the envy of, of the clinics in the area because they, they have lost their veterinarians or pardon me, their technicians or they can't find technicians. and yeah, there's this demand for vets around here, but partially it's because there's also a demand for technicians. And so now the vets are doing tech, you know, tech duties. And let's be honest, we're not doing it as well. nowhere near,

AshleytheVetNurse (06:37)

I know some vets

that are quite good at it. you know what, more people that are assistants and nurses are the ones going to school. And I think that's why it's like getting that you see vets coming out and they're like, insanely smart. You know, like I said, I worked with interns and stuff like 10 years ago, and it's completely different than the interns and stuff that are coming in now, because they all have like years of experience working in a vet before they went to vet school. And I think that's an amazing talent.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:06)

Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a wonderful industry. You know, obviously there's issues with burnout and, and emotional fatigue, compassion fatigue. and, and, know, getting the, getting the respect that, that we deserve and we need, and this is both, you know, my, my field and yours and the front desk team and the ACA team. but I do think I'm very optimistic. I've always been optimistic.

AshleytheVetNurse (07:15)

Hey.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:33)

but I don't think it's naive to say that the future is very, bright, for vet techs and veterinarians and everyone in the field. I think pet owners are, are, are finally, or even more starting to realize the value, that we bring as a team. and I can't do what I do without, you know, my technicians, and you know, they get the opportunity to intubate and throwing catheters and give emergency drugs and.

and sort of take point on CPR or anesthetic monitoring and client education, all these different things. gone are the days, hopefully. Back in my day when I graduated in 98, a lot of technicians were what we call glorified receptionists. And they went to, they had their R, they had their registered vet technician. by the way, Ontario was the first place in North America to have self-regulated.

AshleytheVetNurse (08:31)

awesome.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:31)

veterinary technicians. I think it was about 20 some odd years ago. Yeah. 22, 23 years ago. so shout out to the OAVT. They've done a great job. but yeah, I think, I think things are, are, are looking up. I think things are, very bright for all of us. So you won't, you won't have any regrets that you're, that you're staying in your field. And, and again, the things that you're doing is absolutely, absolutely incredible and inspiring.

I think I misunderstood about you being, going to vet school because you recently, I hope I got this right. You spoke at the Mississippi State Chapter Association for Black Veterinarians. How was that?

AshleytheVetNurse (09:10)

Yes. Yeah,

it was awesome. Honestly, I talked about building relationships. I talked about like tips and tricks to staying efficient within the hospital. And I talked about building relationships with your vet, which I think is obviously very important. Communication between veterinarians and vet techs is a whole not like it's just a whole entire presentation, right? Because how you?

because I've been there. I've had every kind of vet. I've had the laid back vet. I've had a type A vet. And I think as a technician presenting to a group of future veterinarians, it was good to hear from a tech's perspective, like, hey, this is what I've seen work for vets. And this is kind of what I haven't seen work in regards to the flow on the floor. But I was really lucky too, because they do have a technician school on campus there.

So not only did I talk to the future veterinarians, I got to also talk to the future vet techs there. So I had a little bit of everyone. It was really nice. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:10)

They must have been so psyched. They were probably so excited. Do

you think that'll be something you'll do regularly? Do you do a lot of speaking engagements?

AshleytheVetNurse (10:16)

Oh,

so that was my first one. So was so excited. So Daya, who's the president of the chapter there and she's doing absolutely amazing. They just got officially recognized and everything. She invited me and I told her, I was like, you know, I haven't done big presentations. You know, obviously I train new hospitals. I talked to teams, but I've never done like an actual real presentation. So super excited for the opportunity, you know.

I was able to pay for everything out of pocket. So the chapter didn't have to like pay for me to get there. And I'm like, dude, I'm so excited for this opportunity because I do want to test out my skills and, you know, see how it went. So that's my first one. And I'm hoping to do more. I have one or two more lined up for this year that I'm really excited about. But yeah, I do love talking to people and not a camera. It's really nice.

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:57)

Peace.

Yeah, it's it's it's it's way better. It's way better. I have a talk coming up. I've done some like zoom stuff for St. George University, usually regarding my sort of volunteer travel and my wildlife work. So sort of their zoo clubs and things like that. But in about a week and a half, March 22, for those listening, the discovery vets discover vets program at OVC and Guelph.

Basically, this is my fourth year and they bring in wannabe veterinarians, you know, high school students often with their parents, university students who are thinking about getting into the field or thinking about, or they've already applied and you know, and they just want to sort of learn more. And again, I'll be talking about wildlife medicine and international travel, but it's way better in person. I like it. It's so much better. And they give us, they give us pizza. So, you know, it's kind of nice.

AshleytheVetNurse (11:55)

That's the new one.

That's nice.

I volunteer. So I volunteer with another company. I don't post as much on social media as I should because I have so much content and I do all these amazing things. And I really try to live in the moment, which is generally why it takes me a year to do a real on certain things. But I actually volunteer with another company. It's called BlendFed. And it's like the same thing. They're bringing kids from schools, middle school and early high school. They bring them in. We take them to different stations to learn about surgery, anatomy, GP.

And they're able to kind of like dig in a little bit into what being a veterinarian is. And we're hoping with the results from this program is that more kids are going to want to go into vet school or become a vet nurse. And so I think that's amazing that you're doing that. think the field is growing. Everybody wants to work with animals. That was something that I dealt with. It's like, I want to work with animals. And I'm like, I want to be a zookeeper. you know, being a zookeeper is not as easy as people think it is.

It's nice to know or meet someone who has the experience to know if maybe that position or that job is right for you and the steps to get there. So I think that's amazing that you guys are doing that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:09)

So that's how you got into this. You started out chasing the zookeeper dream.

AshleytheVetNurse (13:14)

I wanted to

be a zookeeper. Like no one could tell me anything different. I was going to work in a zoo. So I went to school, obviously got my degree in biology. From there, I did a year internship at the Pittsburgh Zoo and Aquarium. It's an amazing place. They actually have like an elephant sanctuary that's at another location and they built up, they were building a brand new veterinary hospital when I was interning there. And I was in the aquarium.

I will not swim with fish, but I am a fish enthusiast in regards to that. And one of the girls they had brought over, they were doing an exam on a turtle and she was interning from the Vet Tech Institute in Pittsburgh and they were showing her how to draw blood. And I was like, I could do that. I was like, that seems like a good backup job. It's not my career. But so I was like, I'm going to go to, I'm going to go to tech school because this is something that I could do forever. So no matter what career, what I,

get into, have this license and I can work anywhere and I can do this and I did it. And that's how I'm here.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:16)

Good for you. It's such a solid,

like vet nursing and, and being a veterinarian is such a solid science trade, if you want to call it that, that, uh, you don't have to do the classic Monday to Friday, nine to five, look at cats and dogs, you know, you don't even have to do clinical practice. Um, you can get into teaching, you can get into research, you can get into. You know, pharmaceuticals, you can, there's so many things that you can do. So it's, good on you. You pick the, uh, you pick the right one.

and so 2013, so you've been doing this 12 years. So you've already, I don't know what it's like in the U S but you've passed the average, that it is here in Canada. Yeah, really.

AshleytheVetNurse (14:46)

I love it, I love it.

Yeah.

Yes, the average is five. We lose 60

% of technicians after five years. 60 % leave the field. I don't know if that fact has to do with licensed or unlicensed, but most people do. And I always suggest to any assistant or anyone that's not licensed, if this is something that you want to make a career, either go to that school or go and get licensed as a technician, but get your license.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:00)

Yeah.

AshleytheVetNurse (15:22)

can to show that this is something that you want to make a career.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:26)

Yeah, yeah, no, it definitely makes a difference having your, as we call it, having your R, having your registered vet tech. Yeah, we're very excited when our team members get their R. And then they come to me and they ask for a raise, which is appropriate. We're like, yes, you deserve it. There's none that are getting their R soon, so I can say that. They all pretty much have it, so that's good.

AshleytheVetNurse (15:31)

Yeah.

You

It's amazing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:53)

Let's jump into some questions. I got a lot of questions from you, for you. I did, I ended up having to, some of them are repeats. Some of them I've asked other guests in the past, but you hold the record for the most number of questions that were sent my way. So I picked out some good ones, hopefully. All right, this one is a nice, easy knock out of the park. Lisa asks,

AshleytheVetNurse (15:57)

Did you really?

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:23)

What does your typical day look like?

AshleytheVetNurse (16:25)

So a lot of people, I think people ask this question, right? Because I no longer work mainly on the floor. And I think a lot of people are like, you know, I'm still within the vet tech realm. I still help on the floor, but I'm no longer mainly, I don't come in for shifts on the floor. So I do currently inventory and operations. That doesn't mean I still don't step into health, but I do mainly inventory and operations. So my general day is I wake up.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:48)

Mm-hmm.

AshleytheVetNurse (16:54)

Right. I get my slap myself and get ready to go to work. I go in, I generally monitor the whole entire hospital. First, I go in round. I think it's really important for anyone in operations or inventory, whether you understand medicine or not, to generally know what patients are in the hospital, what's going on with the patients. A, because I think it shows a general interest that you still have it, like you still care about the patients and B.

I need to know what you guys are using, right? I need to know if a foreign body went to surgery last night and you've used up like 10 of my NG tubes trying to get one placed. I need to know if you like you there's a urinary catheter placed or sometimes a very large animal that's using very large amounts of any medication or drug. And I'm like thinking about it. And I think that's what makes me a special inventory person is because I'm from a medical background. So I'm thinking about those things. I'm also thinking about what makes things better for the nurses. So I go in, I round, I learn about all the patients. And then I generally do a hospital walkthrough.

I glance at everything, like I said, make sure that nothing's on stock, nothing looks crazy. And then I have a few admin hours. I am a big Excel sheet person. So I generally I'm checking emails, sending tickets, making sure all the equipment's working. And then I do ordering for the hospital, either I'm ordering or I'm unpacking boxes. And then I generally meet with my hospital manager. I'm an operations lead, so I'm

Basically what you consider kind of like an assistant hospital manager. I'm the quiet one who keeps things going. In the back. I generally meet with my hospital manager. I also manage our customer service, our customer experience, the service customer experience coordinators. So those are like our receptionists upfront. So I generally check in with them, make sure that we don't have any payments. also deal with the angry clients. So I am the person that they will come get when we have someone that's maybe not so

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:23)

Ha ha ha ha.

AshleytheVetNurse (18:47)

be on the phone or in the clinic. I am the person that kind of goes in from that board facing to kind of calm them down and be an outside opinion from whatever is going on. And then at night, that is probably when you see me the most on the floor, because, you know, obviously going to shout out to the night crew. I'm going to help the night crew, but I'm usually there for a few hours at night, just making sure until that little rush is down and then I get to go home. So that's that's my general day. It's not super exciting.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:13)

Beauty.

No, it is. And I mean, it's it's important and you should get a business card that says I'm the quiet one that gets things done.

AshleytheVetNurse (19:22)

I would hope I would.

Yeah, I'm the loudest quiet one that gets things done.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:29)

Okay, I gotcha

gotcha gotcha. You could do bold fonts and that would be fine. That's that's how I could I'm the quiet one. You know, talking about, let's talk about these these client complaints then, because it happens, obviously. Do you see a trend in the sense of like, you know, if you're to put them into three categories of sort of the general problem that they're complaining about? I mean, they obviously don't

AshleytheVetNurse (19:33)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:56)

about, hey you didn't use the right suture material or because they don't know. What is what is like your number one just general trend as far as the most common kind of complaint?

AshleytheVetNurse (20:09)

Possibly, I want to say people who don't understand their estimate. I want to say there is those two. There's people who come in that obviously we work in emergency. It's not a great situation generally when people come in, their animals could have been hit by a car, just whatever it is, it's not a good situation. They're like, do everything to save my pet and they don't realize how much everything could possibly cost. Unfortunately, we're not like,

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:35)

Mm-hmm.

AshleytheVetNurse (20:37)

like human med where it's like, say, do everything and then, you know, insurance covers some of it. And then we see the bill later. We have to present a bill while your pet is on the table, unfortunately, you know. So most of the time it's that. So we always try to make sure that we have signed estimates, that it's not any type of verbal approval, because generally people, they're just not in the right mindset when they're approving some of these estimates. So it's having to go back. So it's not their fault. You know, I don't think it's their fault.

So that's probably number one. Number two is mistakes that we make. I think it's very important to admit that, you know, veterinarians and nurses make mistakes. It's not so much medical mistakes, but like maybe the way they explain something. Maybe we cremated their pet and spelled their name wrong, you know, like, and something comes back like that. Yeah. You know, like, like I said, it's, okay. Everybody makes mistakes. Yeah. Or I would say number three is always probably just miscommunication.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:27)

That's a rough one.

AshleytheVetNurse (21:35)

be it whether from the client or from us. I think there's just not closing that loop of communication and just kind of being on the wrong side of things. And I think the small percentage of it is really the angry clients or the people who, I'm trying to think of the best way to say it, it's the people who, they just don't understand. You know what I mean? Like they're the ones who are like, I don't want your medicine. You're just trying to take me for my money.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:52)

You just said, yeah.

AshleytheVetNurse (22:03)

Those I want to say, those type of situations are the small percentage of situations that I have to deal with.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:10)

Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, one of things I find and, and I'm blessed. don't have, I've owned my business 25 years. I can say honestly, we don't get as many complaints or difficult clients, as, as other clinics at least seem to talk about now. I'm not quick to fire clients, but I'm not slow either. and that makes a difference.

And because I've been there 25 years, some of these clients I've known for 25 years. So we have this really strong relationship. So when these miscommunications or problems happen, we can just sit down and talk about it. And what I find and what I try and tell my team, because they, they, they're the, the, the front staff, they're the, or they're the first, they're the point of the spear, let's say, not to make this sound violent because it isn't, but they're the

the first connection and they want to put those fires out before it comes to the big boss, right? Because one that sort of, and one of the questions is related to this, one that sort of minimizes their value if as soon as the client says, no, I want to speak with Dr. Cliff, they're like, okay, here's Dr. Cliff. Well, now they're never going to listen to that person. So they want to solve it. But I often tell them, look, it's rarely as bad as you think.

AshleytheVetNurse (23:11)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:33)

you're about to go and talk to Mr. Smith about this complaint. And it seems pretty clear that this is just a miscommunication. Obviously, we wouldn't have, you know, purposely did this or that, or he just doesn't understand that, you know, whatever's going on. But trust me, I'll say to them, it is not going to be as confrontational as you think. And

I'm going to say 90 % of the time they added it. come out of the question or out of the conversation. go, yeah, you're right. He just needed someone to listen. And then we explained it and he went, okay. That makes sense. And, know, thank you, Ashley. I really appreciate the time you've taken. And, yeah, I don't want to talk to Dr. Cliff because you're better than he is. so that, that happens a lot, but so I'm going to, I'm going to jump then to another question, as my not so subtle, segue.

AshleytheVetNurse (24:21)

BLEH!

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:30)

my entire team and they're like, you're talking to Ashley, vet nurse ask her this. They would like to know, and this is where the communication comes in. How do you handle a pet owner who treats the techs or the CSRs one way and then the vet another way? And this could basically be, you know, they say, nope, there's no other problems. The dog's not vomiting or no other issues, no lumps or bumps. Then I go in there and I'm like, has.

AshleytheVetNurse (24:35)

You

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:58)

As fluffy, you've been vomiting. yeah. A whole bunch of times. or much more frustrating and inappropriate is when the staff or when the client is. They got an edge. They're kind of rude. You know, they're not appreciative of the team members. And then when myself or Dr. Iran show up, it's all, thanks so much. And you're the best. And I know what they're doing and I correct it, but how would you.

How would you recommend the technicians deal with that?

AshleytheVetNurse (25:33)

They might not like my answer. I don't, I don't, I don't do anything. I think that our job is there to get the owners in, get the owners to take care of their pets, take care of their pets and get them out. If they're being rude or like, you know what I mean? Like really mean, I think that's a conversation for the vet to step in and kind of say something. think if you're feeling some kind of way, the owner's being rude.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:35)

That's fine.

AshleytheVetNurse (26:02)

Generally that conversation is probably not going to go well because there's emotions already kind of built up. So that's when you kind of need someone either you go to your manager or your vet and say, Hey, I feel like this. And either you switch out the technician at that point, or you know what I mean? Someone go in to talk to them. But I don't, I don't think it's up to us in general to have that conversation with the owners. We're just, we're there. Everyone's there to make sure that the pet gets the treatment that they want. Right.

So if they're generally being nicer to the vet, I would probably kindly ask my vet, be like, hey, this isn't going well. Do you mind doing most of the communication? I will step in where it's needed. Because I think we forget that we're customer service, right? We're not there to argue with people. We're there, like I said, to give our products, which is veterinary care, and get them home in the right way. So when you ask that question,

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:41)

Mm-hmm.

AshleytheVetNurse (26:57)

I don't think there's much we can do, like I said, without firing the client. Now I said, like, if the client is being like rude, you know what I mean, physical or like anything crazy like that, get out. Like I said, talk to your veteran manager, send them in and do what needs to happen. But I think that I generally wouldn't do much. But honestly, I love Karen's. I don't know if you use the word Karen in Canada.

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:23)

Yeah, yeah,

AshleytheVetNurse (27:25)

Because to me, it's like such a challenge. I will be

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:25)

We just say Karen's,

AshleytheVetNurse (27:27)

so dangerously nice that people can't even be mean to me. And I think it's such a skill, right?

You don't want me to place the catheter. You want the vet to place the catheter. Okay. Let me go get them for you. The vet comes in. You don't want me placing the catheter. You want the more experienced person place to the catheter. Do you see how that goes versus like, it like being offended that they didn't want me to place the catheter. So I always just say, be so dangerously nice to people that they can't even be mean to you. You know, like when someone's wanting something, wanting something and you can't figure out what they want. will literally stop a client or customer and be like,

I'm so sorry, I apologize that this is happening. What is the solution? What can I do for you to solve this problem? And generally they go, because they just complaining to complain at that point, they don't even have a solution. But you see like how you could be so dangerously nice that it makes someone realize that like, I don't even know what I'm talking about at this point. Like I don't even have a solution at this point. But I think if you put customer service first,

you will generally not get these issues. Or like I said, if someone's like, I want a vet, bring the vet in. But then the vet's going to tell them the truth. You know what I mean? then it's

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:41)

So there's,

yeah, that's actually, so, you know, you started out saying that maybe my team's not going to like what you have to say, but no, the, the, think the best thing to do is not unless, you know, certain situations you need to confront it. but you need to confront it as a team. but it's just, don't take it personally. You know, sort of maybe have the conversation with the veterinarian and what I do.

AshleytheVetNurse (28:50)

you

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:10)

is when I come in, just like the veterinarian in your situation saying, you don't really want me placing the catheter. Ashley's the, the, the experienced one. She's the expert. I'll sort of say things like that or, or the simple, you know, so this is for the veterinarians listening, the simple fact of when you're leaving, thanking the technician, Hey, thanks for your help, Pam. I'm going to leave.

I'm going to leave your dog in the capable hands of Pam. She's going to be the primary communicator. We talk about it, but she's the one that really is going to focus on your pet's care. Pam, thanks so much for your help. And over time, those clients that naturally hold a veterinarian at a higher pedestal, instead of a different, you know, sort of equal but slightly different task oriented

area, they will start to recognize the support staff as as valuable. I have a one quick story related to this. So, you know, I graduated in 98 bought my clinic in 2000 quickly went to a dermatology conference and learned about ear swabs. You know, we weren't doing ear swab cytology, right? We were just stick them on a a cure all. And of course, we weren't doing a good job.

AshleytheVetNurse (30:35)

You

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:36)

Right? It was back when we used leeches and you know, stuff like that. Holy water to cure things. Very, yeah, we're, yeah, we're super modern. And so we started doing it and I taught my technicians how to, you know, not really how to do it. They knew how to do it, but this is how we're going to handle it. And so every dog coming in with an ear swab, the technician would say, we got to do it. You got to do your swab, et cetera, et cetera. And then one time came where this little old lady.

AshleytheVetNurse (30:40)

PNG, PNG, PNG and DexXP.

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:04)

Uh, with her big black lab named Dutchess came in and, it was when I was starting out. So I didn't have a full team. And so there are evenings where it was me and like a high school student running the front desk kind of thing. And, uh, she's like, I'm like, yeah, Dutchess has an ear infection. So we got to do an ear swab just like last time. And she's like, okay. So do I come back when the technician is here? I was like, no, I'll do it. She's like, Oh,

AshleytheVetNurse (31:16)

You

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:33)

Did they show you how you know how to do the ear swab? And I didn't correct her. was just like, yeah, they showed me how. And it was the, was, couldn't have been more proud. Like I could not have been more proud. And the reality is like my urine cytology is not very good. So I just, just give me the report. You know, have the technicians take a look at it. So I think that's one of the things is, is having the veterinarian state the obvious.

AshleytheVetNurse (31:34)

Hahaha

Hahaha

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:03)

but it may not be obvious to the client, right? No one would ever let their surgeon put in a catheter if they're going in for surgery. They want not only a nurse, but they want a phlebotomist. They want a specialist who can hit the hardest vein, right? So it's kind of the same situation. You don't get your dentist to clean your teeth. They don't know what they're doing. Sorry, Margaret, my sister-in-law, Margaret's a dentist.

AshleytheVetNurse (32:17)

Right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:31)

And she doesn't clean my teeth, one of her hygienists do, right? So, you you gotta figure things out. So I think that was a good answer that you had. All right, so Cheyenne asks, this is another great one. How do you handle challenging situations that are emotionally challenging, like dealing with a sick or injured animal or euthanasia? I mean, this is such a common sort of problem, compassion fatigue and burnout and whatnot.

AshleytheVetNurse (32:40)

Thanks.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:59)

How do you guys manage it?

AshleytheVetNurse (33:02)

I think you take it, it's 10 minutes in the back. Unfortunately, the freezer in the back is a special place, right? It's where a lot of technicians and doctors go to sit in quiet. It's where we go to vent, you know what I mean? And it's unfortunately where the end of some appointments end up. generally after those, A, I always try to be involved in the euthanasia.

God forbid it's one of the ones where the owners don't want to be present. I'm always there for the pet. I will never let a pet be alone during the euthanasia. I will never let a pet get euthanized in the back. You know, like we're doing it in a room. We call in technicians and we're there for that pet. We're going to see that pet the whole way through. And I think that's something that keeps my capacity fatigue up because instead of just leaving the room and treating it like it's an everyday thing, every euthanasia, every loss is, affects me, you know.

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:45)

Mm-hmm.

AshleytheVetNurse (33:58)

Now I feel the compassion fatigue a little bit when the decisions are made where it's like, this needs to be euthanized. You know what I mean? Where you make those decisions. And unfortunately, I think that's where the compassion fatigue, like how is it so easy for us to say that this is a lost cause or this is not gonna, this is not untreatable. This isn't gonna go anywhere. And I think, like I said, it's just taking time to yourself after those. It's okay to tell the people around you, I need a few minutes or I need to step away.

for a few minutes, I need to go sit in a dark room, you know, and then cry for a few minutes. And that's okay. I think there's nothing wrong with that. I know one girl, she cries after every euthanasia. And that's okay. No one would ever go in the back and... Right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Right.

She's probably the strongest and has

one of the healthiest sort of mental health.

AshleytheVetNurse (34:51)

And no one would ever go and be like, Gabby, she cries after every youth in Asia. It's like, no, she cares. She cares that the owners are making these decisions or that there's not more that she could have done to help. I think we're probably more upset when we know that something's treatable and the owners decide not to treat it and take it home. Like taking something out of an oxygen cage and being like, I'm just going to take it home. You guys aren't doing the right thing. I think.

that probably affects us more than the sadder cases is when we want to help or we want to try and help and the owners are not letting us help. Sometimes it's for financial reasons. I think that's what's really important about veg or veterinary emergency group. We do have a thing where if we're able to do something discounted or do it for free, we do it and our company does it not because it helps the owners, but it helps us.

from feeling bad that we can't help something. You know what I mean? Or do something. And I think that's why the work that you do, Dr. Cliff, and doing wildlife and going and doing all of these things, it helps us feel better that we don't have to charge and do things to help people. So I think if I round up that question, what do I do to help? volunteer. I use my skills and I go and do things that are emotionally and physically fulfilling.

so when I go back to work, I'm like, I'm rejuvenated, man. If I go on a stay neuter trip and I, and I come back, I'm like a whole different person. Cause I was, I was able to like, I'm sure you know that feeling. It's like, it's like a breath of fresh air. Like I'm going, I'm helping people. using my job for something that's not, you know, producing money, you know, I'm just there to help. And it kind of gives you a reset before you go back to work. So I, I advise every technician or doctor, whether it's a vaccine clinic.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:26)

Hmm.

AshleytheVetNurse (36:48)

or spay neuter clinic, or even just like going and talking to people. Do something outside of that. You could use your profession to help people outside of work because it's going to make going to work a lot easier. It's something to look back on when you are having like those bad days of what your why is. Why are you doing this?

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:07)

Yeah, I like to say that I get paid the most when I'm working for free. it is so, it's yeah, it's so rewarding. And it makes me a better veterinarian. Like my skills get so much better when I'm dealing with these, you know, these spay neuter clinics and whether it's abroad or just locally and doing the wildlife work. I'm now doing things that I never would have thought.

and treating bald eagles and deer and porcupines and raccoons and bats and monkeys and you know all this all this sort of crazy stuff and then I come back and it doesn't it doesn't make me enjoy less my regular job it's just this perfect yin and yang compliment and for anyone who volunteers they they agree with you that

that it is the best way to rejuvenate the mind and the heart and the spirit. you know, it, it, as I said, it pays you the most when you're not getting paid anything. Like it's just so rewarding. It's almost selfish. I joke that it's almost selfish. Like,

AshleytheVetNurse (38:11)

Yeah.

Yeah.

the best two years of my life. So when I went from emergency and I was burnt out and I was in a toxic work environment, like all of, you know, the whole list. I went to Humane Society of Charlotte's Bay Neuter and it was the best thing I could have done. It was like I was there for two years and I loved it. I loved my scene. I loved what I did. I was fostering kittens. We were doing vaccine clinics. I loved educating, you know, owners that wouldn't normally be at the vet on.

what their vaccine schedule was and come to us and we can knock you out for $150 for the year. You know what I mean? But that was the most fulfilling job to this day. I mean, I'm not saying I don't love my job at Veterinary Emergency Group and doing emergency, but to see the looks on people's faces when we would do an emergency pie, because all of the people that I worked with at Humane Society were ex-emergency veterinarians. we would do that emergency amputation, or we would do that emergency pie when people came in.

or when Humane Society needed it. So I was still doing emergency within that realm, but I was doing it for people that needed it, that wouldn't show up to a place like Veterinary Emergency Group or all of these other things. I think that's, like I said, the happiest time of my life. That reset me. I think that was about eight years into my career. It reset me and it kind of set me up for Veterinary Emergency Group. I think without that two years, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be in the field.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:48)

Yeah.

Beautiful. Beautiful. That answers, we've kind of answered some years question, but I wanted to give him a shout out. So he didn't think I missed it. He asked, how do you stay motivated and engaged in your work? and you know, that's, that's a big part of it is, Hey, and volunteer, you're not going to do it for free. That's okay. We're not doing this. I love my job. I'm not doing it for free. I'll.

AshleytheVetNurse (40:00)

He he.

Hey. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, it's, it's,

wish I could,

I wish I could, but unfortunately it sucks. We have to pay the bills, right? Like we have to, I need a place to live. I have to pay the bills. I'm 36 years old. I can't live with my mom, you know, but if I wish I could.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:25)

Hahaha.

AshleytheVetNurse (40:29)

I say, looking towards the future of my career keeps me motivated. What position can I step into next? Who can I help next? What can I do to make this hospital more efficient that Ashley does inventory? That's what keeps me motivated. That's what I love the most. Making things easier for the nurses and being there as a support system for the nurses to grow and to hopefully budding careers that also last over 10 years.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:59)

Yeah, yeah, over the average. Yeah. Being a leader, being a leader is a, it's a fun gig. It's a fun position for sure. I sometimes, I don't know about you. I sometimes don't think I'm worthy of it, but you know, it's the hat I wear and, it fits most of the time. So, all right, well then let's do this. This was a question I was actually asked on a podcast recently and I thought it was so good. I'm probably going to screw it up, but this would be the last one.

AshleytheVetNurse (41:01)

Mm-hmm.

It's just.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:26)

If you could take away any fear of failure or apprehension about the challenge, what dream or project would you pursue?

AshleytheVetNurse (41:39)

I would travel the world. would travel the world. Honestly, I would travel the world and I would go do spay and neuter clinics. Spay and neuter is kind of my passion. Like I said, I love, oh yeah, give me, give me as efficiency. Let's knock out 60 dogs today. Let's go home. You know what I mean? That's my heart. So right now, if I could do anything, I would probably, I don't know what kind of remote job it would be, but I would love a remote position so I can pay my bills and also just leave.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:40)

If you

Yeah.

Beauty, beauty.

AshleytheVetNurse (42:07)

and go help people. would travel. Yeah, I would go to all these different places and volunteer. would go back to Costa Rica. I would try to go to Ukraine. I would try to go to all these different places and volunteer. And unfortunately, I can't because I'm at work paying the bills. So that's my dream job. I'm organizing and putting trips together to prevent burnout for nurses. Because unfortunately, yeah, a lot of these

Dr. Cliff Redford (42:09)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Beauty. Beauty.

AshleytheVetNurse (42:34)

volunteer opportunities are really only offered to vets because they need the people to do the surgeries. And there really isn't a lot of positions or openings or advertising to take more technicians. Because technically you don't really have to be licensed to do all of those things, but I want to see the push for more technicians, whether licensed or not, to be on these trips to help as volunteers and not just vets.

So I'd want to start something to get more people out of there. think, you know, I've even thrown it around. It's a question at Fetch right now. Like, what is your dream job? And I'd be like, dude, I would put trips together for veggies. You know, we call ourselves veggies. I would put trips together for people where they would have to pay, not for free, not covered, because I would want the company to match what they're putting into going to doing these trips so they could donate it.

And it also shows that I'm not just going on this trip because someone's paying for it I'm going on vacation because a lot of people like want to do these trips and stuff because they think they're like going on vacation. No, you're going to work. You're going to volunteer. And like I said, ultimately, I think that this it prevents burnout in nurses and vets to go take a week, meet a group of people, have dinner at night, live, laugh, love, whatever. During the day, you're volunteering, you're using your skills to help pets and people. And then you get to come home back.

reset. So that's what I would do. That's my dream job.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:05)

Beauty. I love it. mean, you know, for those veterinarians that do these trips or these organizations, there are ones that are, that are vet designated, you know, sort of focus on the veterinarian. Um, I've been to the Arctic North twice, uh, both times in January, um, up in a city, you know, it's only 7,000 people, but it's the biggest community and none of it. Um, I've talked about it before on this, on this podcast and the first time it was myself, my son and my daughter.

And they helped, but it was really me. And there was a paramedic that lived in a Cali that helped like a firefighter paramedic and then volunteers. So there was no, technicians and we did spays and neuters and vaccines and emergency surgeries, whatever, because there's no veterinarian there. But this last trip in January, I took one of my technicians, Arthur, and, not only was it a blast and obviously he's amazing in his job.

but I was able to see twice as literally see twice as many patients because I didn't have to put it in the catheter. And for some reason that didn't, wasn't working very well the first year. I think the tape in a Callowit is different. I don't think it works well in city folks hands. That's what I'll say. But actually I came back from that first trip going, man, you technicians have a hard job. this is, how do you keep those?

AshleytheVetNurse (45:25)

Hahaha

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:27)

Catheter's in what the heck? But like he was able to vaccinate animals he was able to do simple examinations in one room while I'm dealing with harder examinations in the other and then surgery time we were able to do twice as many surgeries because he was intubating and throwing in the catheter so it ended up being a huge benefit and air quotes investments Having a technician there. So for anyone

AshleytheVetNurse (45:54)

Oh yeah, think we're

able. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:56)

I was going to say for anyone listening who puts on these trips, invite the technicians as well. You're going to get a lot more work.

AshleytheVetNurse (46:04)

Yeah, was so big sent us to Baja Spaniard. We went to a trip to Mexico. I think it's probably like just over a year ago now. And I was the only technician. And I think technicians, like you said, are so valuable, right? Because we're thinking out the box. You guys are focused. You guys are doing surgery. And we're able to monitor and keep everything else moving while you're there. You know, like I was able to like I'm looking at the incisions. You guys are coming off the table and I'm like, someone needs to fix this. You know what I mean? Like and if there wasn't

a technician there, you know, like no one would have probably known that. Also, you know, like remember you guys have animals recovering. So it's nice to have either whether a regular technician or an emergency technician that knows what to look for and what should be happening while these animals are recovering. Because as you know, we work in different situations. We're doing surgery, it's sometimes intubated, sometimes not. Sometimes we have catheters, sometimes we don't. So I think it's valuable to have technicians there and hopefully they start

valuing us more in regards to like these mission trips and things like that. But I'm lucky that I get to be a representative and kind of show that technicians can show up and do good things too. So thank you for bringing your technician from all technicians.

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:14)

Yes.

Yeah, no problem. My pleasure. And, yeah, we're going to do it again. And I think Tex will start outnumbering the vets. That's the, that's the, that's the dream job. this has been, this has been so much fun, Ashley. as I said, you are a huge inspiration for, for so many people. I dig the cool stuff that you do and it really does inspire me. and keeps me thinking, that I'm young maybe. and I get to keep, keep pursuing these dreams.

And one day I'm gonna see that you're gonna have that dream job somewhere remote. Every month you'll be moving to a different place and rescuing animals and do you surf? You gotta learn how to surf. I'm a big surfer, so that's where I like to think I am.

AshleytheVetNurse (47:58)

So I want to, I know

everyone cool surfs and I'm like not, I'm like a little scared of the ocean. I'll swim. I just like, I'm not a strong swimmer. So I'm like a beach layer. I just like want to tan and like watch everybody else surf. But I think it would be really fun to surf so I can hang out with my friends in the ocean and not just watch from the beach. So I'm hoping maybe to like do a trip.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:09)

Okay. Yeah, you need to know that.

Beauty.

AshleytheVetNurse (48:26)

some sort of spay neuter trip where we can also incorporate like maybe some surf lessons or something like that. That would be really cool, right?

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:29)

Beauty, beauty.

Definitely every cool person surfs, but not every surfer is cool. And I'm a tribute to that. All right, so once more, remind people who have stuck around to the end, how they can keep up with what's going on with Ashley, and then we'll say goodbye.

AshleytheVetNurse (48:36)

Bye.

So you guys can find me on Instagram, Ashley the Vet Nurse, and hopefully I have some tricks and tricks for you guys on the internet and show you guys some cool equipment and things that'll make your hospital more efficient.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:02)

Yeah, perfect. I appreciate it. Thank you.

AshleytheVetNurse (49:04)

No problem. Thanks, Cliff.