Dr. Lachlan Campbell

In this episode, Dr. Cliff Redford reconnects with Dr. Lachlan Campbell, a dedicated veterinarian and volunteer who has been actively involved in animal rescue efforts in Ukraine and Afghanistan. They discuss Lachlan's upcoming trip to Ukraine, his experiences volunteering during the war, and the importance of making a difference in the lives of animals. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by veterinarians in conflict zones, the friendships formed through shared experiences, and the impact of trauma on those who volunteer in such environments. 

To support Dr. Lachlan in his trip to Ukraine, visit and donate to https://www.nowzad.com/donate and be sure to follow his efforts at @drlachlancampbellausvet

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:00)

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of vet life with me, Dr. Cliff. we got another fun guest today. My good friend, Dr. Lachlan Campbell. Lachlan and I met pretty much three years ago, almost to the day when we each volunteered together, in Ukraine or in Poland at the Ukraine Polish border during just the beginning of the current Ukraine Russian.

Conflict Laughlin is a veterinarian like myself who likes to volunteer and travel And he's all the way from Australia. I think he's up in the Gold Coast in Australia, but we're gonna find out and he's just He's one of those guys that wants to get up off the couch and and do some good

And I haven't talked to him other than some texting in three years. So I'm really, really excited about this and hang on for the ride. And we're going to learn a lot about the amazing volunteer trips that he's up to. And he's got another trip to Ukraine coming up. So stay tuned.

Hey man, how you doing?

Lachlan (01:19)

Yeah good, how are you?

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:21)

Excellent. Excellent. it's okay if you don't have your camera on, but you realize it's not on.

Lachlan (01:26)

I'm not sure why it's not working, mate. I use my camera all the time. So I'm just using my computer. I figured it'd be probably the easiest way to do it. But for some reason, I can't get it up and running, which is annoying, mate, because I want to see you and I want you to see me.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:31)

Ha ha.

Alright, no worries.

Oh, you can't even see me. Okay. All right. Got

Lachlan (01:47)

No, I can see you. I can see you, but I you to see me.

I think it's only fair, isn't it?

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:52)

yeah, I don't know. What can you do? Well, we're gonna, we'll do this semi-regular anyways. Who knows? Yeah. It's good to hear your voice. It's good to hear your voice. It's been three years since we, yeah, since like we've talked on the phone, we've just like really texted, right? Yeah. Cause, cause it was only a couple of weeks after the war began.

Lachlan (01:57)

Yeah, it's good to see you, buddy. It's good to see you.

It has.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yep.

It would have been pretty much about now when we would have been there. It was sort of coming into April, I think, the end of March, and then coming into April, wasn't it?

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:27)

Yeah, Yeah. I just know it was really, it was really early in the, in the war. It's got to be coming up any day now. I'm going to start getting

Lachlan (02:34)

Yes, was

within the first month that we were there. And yeah, I seem to recall that I think we were there probably even for a couple of weeks prior to coming in the first of April. Yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:40)

Yeah.

I believe so. Yeah, I believe so. Definitely. Boy, boy. You've been busy though. You're still going all over the place.

Lachlan (03:01)

I am mate. Yeah, look, depends on what we're talking about really. I mean, look, I'm back in Ukraine on the 12th of April, you know, in the next sort of three weeks odd. And which happens so happens to be my birthday. That's when the when my when I fly into when I fly over there, which I guess my family's not too I don't know.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:28)

Yeah.

Lachlan (03:28)

They're

okay with, but they're not super impressed with that. yeah, look, I mean, it is what it is. When you get to this age, mate, like I'm coming on to 45, I don't really care what day the birthday's on.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:39)

Yeah. Yeah, you can celebrate before, can celebrate after, celebrate both. How long are going for?

Lachlan (03:45)

It should be three weeks this time. Yeah, look, it's three weeks. A nigh on to the day when I've got my flight booked out to fly out of Poland.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:58)

Wow. And so how many times you and I were there again three years ago and then you went once or twice after that?

Lachlan (04:07)

once after that. this will be my third time back there. Yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:10)

Okay.

And are you working with Penn again or is he still up in Afghanistan?

Lachlan (04:15)

No, will be with Penn. So he will drive from the UK through Europe and then meet me in Poland. And then we'll head through the border house together. And then effectively, we're there together throughout those three weeks. We'll travel around Ukraine, I guess, to different projects that Nausad have around, I guess, almost the whole of Ukraine.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:28)

Beauty.

Lachlan (04:42)

As far as I'm aware, where we would be heading, or at least there's multiple projects and we'll probably vary depending on what's going on with everything, but we'll head over to the east to Harkeve, which you headed to. Then we'll head south from, you know, on that eastern side down to Kramatorsk. And then we will head, I think probably back

west and then hit down south again to areas down south as well.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:18)

Wow, wow. yeah, so it's with his charity now. Like it's with Nozad basically.

Lachlan (05:26)

Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:29)

Does he have

his own shelters there or is he like sort of an umbrella organization that looks after others and supports others?

Lachlan (05:37)

It's more of a, I mean, look, so now as that does operate out of Ukraine, so they primarily operate out of Lviv, so in the West, as you know, and then they have, yeah, they work with partnerships with other shelters and support shelters throughout Ukraine, and veterinarians and a range of things throughout Ukraine.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:03)

Right. Who's the group? Do you know? Are you working with a specific group in Harkeib or is it is again his own his own shelter?

Lachlan (06:11)

It'll be one of the shelters that we're supporting. I'm actually not quite sure which shelters over that way. There's one sort of north of Keeve, one over sort of near Carr Keeve and then down in Cramartorse where we were last time. So last time I went, they did an amazing job, guys at Nowzad, what they did is they...

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:16)

Nice.

Lachlan (06:34)

transported over shelters from the UK. So they were prefabricated shelters in the UK, all made in the UK. They had them trucked over to Ukraine. And then we built them all in Kramatorsk. And so we'll go back to that shelter where we built all the shelters for the dogs because in that particular shelter, and as you know, mate, they literally just

the dogs are chained up. Some of the dogs have been chained up for literally four years and not let off their chains. And they're just living in a small dog box with a chain. And basically they're fed and watered and these sort of things and kept as comfortable as possible. as you know, mate, like the weather over there is ranges from being really pretty hot sort of.

mid sort of 30s or 30 degrees Celsius, whatever that is, is Fahrenheit. And then all the way to sort of sub-freezing temperatures, so they really get pretty cold. So we built those shelters enough for those 80 dogs in a lot more sort of comfort. And they've got a run, and we built quite a large exercise area and made it much more comfortable for them all.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:55)

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. So in this trip, like it sounds like you just get to show up and, use your veterinarian and, and handyman skills and help out. Is there much planning on your part is Penn and his team's taking care of that.

Lachlan (08:10)

Look, I mean, there's an element, there's elements of things being sort of covered that way. So, you know, effectively, I will head across there and, you know, exactly what you know, do some vet things. you know, obviously, head to these shelters and treat any animals that need, you know, need care, vaccinations, you know, and any general sort of, any general treatment. And then,

pick up anything else that's not in a good way and assist treating that. At this stage, it also looks like I'm speaking at L'Evive University for the veterinarians, the veterinary students at L'Evive University. I'm putting together, this is one thing I'm just currently organising, is some workshops for the students at L'Evive University.

I'm going to do some workshops for them on CPR, dental nerve blocks and surgical extractions is currently what I'm planning. So it'll be a couple of days of me basically just spending at Laveve University and training up the local vets there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:14)

Nice.

Yeah, this is so exciting. It's, I mean, it's such a overused word. I use it all the time. I guess my English isn't good enough to think of other ones, but it's so inspiring. It's, cool to see. I mean, I thought I traveled and volunteered a lot, but you've really jumped into this second half of your life for sure.

Lachlan (09:44)

Well, I

don't know, mate, like you do a pretty good job with these sorts of things. Like, you you do a fair bit of traveling and you've done a hell of a lot, you know, yourself. I don't know. think we just, it's just one of those things that both of us are, you know, prepared to do and get out there and actually help and have the opportunity to do that. Like you can, you know, what I would say is you can, you can sit around and you can rest on your laurels and basically just do things day to day and you can get quite comfortable with that. Or you can.

put yourself out of your comfort zone and really try and get out there and help as much as possible. And I think the more that you're out there helping, the more that you see that you can help and you can provide this sort of assistance and make a difference. And then of course, the more that that happens, the more that opportunity is sort of open to be able to get in and help more. So yeah, I I just...

I think for me, mate, I actually just like making, I like to be able to help and make a difference and I guess utilize my skills to be able to make a difference and then look back on things and hopefully one day I'll look back and actually say, I've done some pretty good things and some pretty helpful things across my career and across my life really and hopefully things just continue to sort of head that way.

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:07)

Yeah, when you went three years ago to Poland and Ukraine, was that your first epic or significant volunteer travel trip?

Lachlan (11:19)

Yeah, look, I guess it was. Certainly, I'd done quite a bit of volunteering in Australia and looked after and worked with rescue groups and these sorts of things in Australia. And as most veterinarians do, we really do sort of go above and beyond in many respects to try and help rescue groups and stray animals and wildlife and these sorts of things.

But yeah, mean, Ukraine, that particular trip was, I guess, the first sort of probably left field international trip where I was out to help.

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:59)

Yeah. And you did it like me and that it was just you decided and a couple of days later, you're probably booking your flight and you figure it out as you get there.

Lachlan (12:09)

That's it, mate. I think I seem to recall, so I did it in five days. So I pretty much decided and then booked my flight and then left within five days. Now, I seem to recall that you beat me with that, that you made a decision and you got out, you know, you left Canada so even faster.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:26)

No,

I remember making the decision on a Sunday, midday, by the evening I messaged my kids to say, your dad's going to Ukraine. Emily was on a backpacking trip, a little solo backpacking slash volunteer trip in Europe, mostly backpacking. And she said, well, I'm in Spain, get me a ticket and I'll meet you.

Lachlan (12:40)

Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:53)

for understandable reasons that didn't make her mother very happy, but we kept her safe, you and I and herself as well. She's a cool kid. And I was on a plane, I think Friday. So it was about the same. Yeah, it was about the same. I mean, you can't do much, especially when you're, you you got lives and you're a top vet and you're in your side. Well, you were between jobs at the time, weren't you?

Lachlan (12:56)

Yeah.

Of course.

Yes.

I was made, which sort of gave me the opportunity to act. Well, I was just in the process of resigning from my role and then moving on to another role. So it did give me the opportunity to make a pretty hefty decision pretty quickly. When I look back, think within that sort of five days, probably what, if I look back and probably what impressed me most, continues to impress me the most about what I did within that five days.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:31)

You

Lachlan (13:49)

is I reached out to so many, and I look back at some of these emails that I sent and the contact that I tried to make to rescue groups across Ukraine, Poland, Romania, all these sorts of things, because as you remember, it was going off and the war, everyone was just, it was intense. rescue groups.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:06)

Yeah.

Lachlan (14:13)

across Ukraine and that whole region were just taking in so many animals and they didn't have time. They must have been working 20 hours a day more just to try and maintain what they're doing. And I reached out to so many of them and I got very little replies and I got replies from two locations, which of course you and I both went to in Dias and Ada. And they were the only two replies, but that was enough for me.

within that very short period of time to organize, to go, and also, I guess, put this out in the public domain and then get tens of thousands of dollars worth of donations to, I guess, make a lot of this sort of stuff happen. So, yeah, guess it was a really big time and people were really prepared to get on board and support. And it just sort of all seemed to...

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:41)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Lachlan (15:10)

to happen very, very quickly. And you sort of look back now and you think, well, geez, that all happened within that such a short period of time. But yeah, mean, it all worked out well for both of us and we're able to really provide a lot of support and really help on our trip that we made then.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:27)

Yeah, and then the friends we made, mean, you and I again didn't know each other at all until that first day. we got to sleep in that dorm room together when we heard about the slap that resonated around the world. Everyone was talking about Will Smith hitting Chris Rock and you and I looked at it and we're just like, all right, back to whatever, who cares, back to the work we got to do, which kind of...

Lachlan (15:33)

Bye.

Yeah!

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:55)

I think shows the importance of the trips that we were doing and also the lack of importance that most of the things and most of the media talk about. But like who really cares about these Hollywood heroes other than I guess the impact they have on children and whatnot. But then like the other people we met, right? And you know, there were issues with...

Lachlan (16:10)

you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:20)

with some of the charities I've worked with over the years, especially the ones where I haven't had times to really vet them, no pun intended. But I mean, like meeting you and meeting who I call Cheesy John, this guy from the UK that really likes his cheese. Have you worked with him at all?

Lachlan (16:33)

Yes.

not really. Or not prior to that, of course. Yeah, that's right. And then after that, I guess, we stayed in contact for a bit, but not so much since.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:40)

Not with the big red bus. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, he's still he's going back like he he still has his little charity right in in the city of Poland on the border the name I can never pronounce. Shamshell Shrem Yeah, something like that. I love you guys. Yeah, I mean, hey, it's, it's, know, not everyone speaks English. That's the beauty of it. Thank God not everyone speaks English.

Lachlan (16:58)

Yes, shrimp. Yeah, that's it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:13)

but I mean, meeting him and then meeting, Dr. Andrew, from the U S who still does a ton of volunteer trips, not only in Odessa with his Ukrainian background and then, and then non non rescue types, you know, there's a, should see if he's in, in the Ukraine right now. I think he might be, but Adam's Evo is a big time political journalist and writer here in,

in Canada and has ties in, in Ukraine and, was the one who found me or, or sort of recommended the apartment that I ended up staying in in Harkev when I went the second time, because he had been there before, but he may be there. He may be there right now, but yeah. And then, you know, these organized that organization that when I went the second time that ended up taking, we got $50,000 worth of human pharmaceuticals donated from a

Lachlan (17:54)

yes, yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:12)

a pharmacy in Montreal here in Canada and this, this one group, cause you forget, like they were getting their meds from both veterinarian and human meds from Russia. so all of a sudden, war, war breaks out and, and people need their chemo therapeutics and, and whatnot. So it really does. I don't know, make the world seem smaller, in a good way, or it makes strangers seem more friendly. Cause,

Lachlan (18:14)

Mmm. Mmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:40)

Well, there's a lot of cool people out there and, and, obviously you're one of them and, Penn's one of them and same thing. So you met Penn and for the people listening, Penn Farthing, well, you know what? I'm going to let you explain who he is other than I'll say read his book, Operation Arc. good friend, Dr. Loughlin is mentioned in it for about a paragraph or two, a couple of pages, but yeah, tell me how you met Penn and I got to get him on this pod.

Lachlan (18:53)

What?

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:05)

after you create tell me how you met them and tell me all about the work that you guys did not can stand

Lachlan (19:05)

Yes.

Yeah, so Penn is a ex British Marine commando who served in Afghanistan. I think he had five tours in Afghanistan. look, he may very well correct me on a number of these things, but I'll tell you what I recall. And whilst he was in Afghanistan, one of the areas that he was posted in was called Nowzad. And

What ended up happening is he ended up spending a lot of time there and ended up rescuing a number of dogs over time whilst being there. they were street dogs, were Afghani street dogs, and looking after them. And what he did is he looked for opportunities or he tried to figure out how he could get them back to the UK to provide them with a better life.

I guess what happened is that sort of people started hearing about this, you know, through some of his tours and started donating to him, just randomly, just donating money personally to him. And, you know, I think he felt a bit uncomfortable about that, but, know, in time, what he did is he ended up bringing animals back to the UK and effectively rescuing them from the life that they had, which is a pretty horrible life in

in Afghanistan there that way. And he ended up starting his charity called Nowzad and named it after obviously the location that he spent a lot of that time. One of the big things, and this is Operation Arc that you're referring to, is he ended up, of the pullout of all the troops, of the US and the UK troops,

a few years ago, ended up raising enough money to hire a 747 and bring back hundreds of dogs and all the staff from the veterinary clinic and their families and a range of things. So he brought back, I think, about 70 odd people plus a few hundred animals as well, and bringing back and rescuing them back to UK.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:20)

Mm.

Lachlan (21:36)

massive event and a massive thing that occurred and really did save multiple people and multiple families and bringing them back to a better life in the UK. And guess, know, Pins, he's got his charity and then the war broke out in Ukraine and given his experience and his skill set,

He and his charity went into to Ukraine and that's when I first first met him in Ukraine. So I'm not sure what happened with you, mate. Like I think you and I were sort of I think you went one day away for a bit and then I went another way. And that's when I met I met Penn and I I guess went on I guess some adventures further into Kiev and

and Irpin and Butcher, just as the Russians had pulled out of that area. And if anybody, I guess, recalls, that's where some of these atrocities occurred as the Russians were in there. it was really quite a horrific event. what I saw when Penn and I were

Traveling around that was really pretty horrific. And there were a lot of animals there, from an animal standpoint, that were just abandoned and left and people just trying to get out as quickly as they possibly could. So they had to prioritize their family and effectively had to leave these animals, which were left with nothing, either locked in pens or cages or apartments or whatever it is, for up to a month.

you know, through that period while the Russians tried to push forward. So, yeah, and I, we traveled around, know, up and around Kyiv and throughout Ukraine throughout that period together. And that's when I first met him, but I obviously spent, you know, a lot of time with him, you know, 24-7, you know, through those times and some pretty harrowing stuff. you know, we came pretty close just from that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:38)

Yeah.

Lachlan (24:01)

you know, from those, from that time together.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:05)

Yeah, this was your second trip, right?

Lachlan (24:07)

No, this is the first trip. This is the first trip. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:08)

This was the first trip. Okay. So this, this

I think happened very close to when Emily and I left. Cause when we went to the border, we were only there 10 days, maybe. How long did you go on that first trip?

Lachlan (24:21)

Yes.

I was there for three, three and a half weeks. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:29)

Yeah. So that's,

that's what, yeah. Like you and I, you and I met it at Diaz. We worked there. We then went to, I'm not going to try and say it that city right at the border there. and then, and worked with Ada and I just, I just, I didn't get along with them faster, faster than you didn't get along with them. so I left, so I left.

Lachlan (24:41)

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, that was a bit wrong. That's a good way of

putting it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:57)

Yeah, now I think part of it

was, uh, I had my daughter with me as well. So, you know, Papa bear gets a little bit more, uh, little gets, gets a little bit more protective. Um, that was an interesting, at least for us, that was interesting because all of a sudden we didn't know what to do. We, know, I wasn't going to stay working with them. They do some amazing work, but you know, it wasn't working out. And so we just, we decided to go to the border right at the crossing.

Lachlan (25:05)

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:26)

Cause I wanted to meet Dr. Andrew. and, for people who are listening, he's, at, at the Nomad vet, he's very, he's very, well followed on Instagram and does amazing work. and. I wanted to meet him and I met him and, know, down this, this strip of road where, you know, refugee refugees were crossing from Ukraine. We're just.

Like dozens, there had to be 50 charities lined up providing food and water and medical services and, you know, things you wouldn't think of, but like free cell phone, SIM cards, that will work in Poland for the people that were coming across, you know, all these things that are, that are pretty important. And, within three or four hours, Emily said, Hey, can we stay here and volunteer for, with, Siobhan's trust?

Lachlan (25:57)

Mm-hmm, yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:23)

and start making pizza for the rescuers. So was kind of a nice little 180 degrees and she ended up, was kind of cool because she connected with Siobhan's trust a couple hours before I did. And so she agreed to volunteer with them. And so the joke was she had seniority and she was no longer Dr. Cliff's daughter, but instead I was Emily's.

dad, which was kind of nice. She, you know, she's spent a lot of these trips being Dr. Clif's daughter and sort of in my shadow. but then you, you, other than the trip you and I did into L'viv on the big red bus for that one day, you ended up, you ended up, yeah, you, took it a whole nother level and, and, and met Penn and, and how did you like, how did you meet him? Was it again, just, hey, here's

Lachlan (27:01)

Yes.

Mm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:22)

Here's someone from another colonial country and let's see if we hit it off and let's hope we don't hate each other.

Lachlan (27:31)

It was actually, I met him in Shremshol and it was kind of lined up through some of the guys like with John and Nina and Sue. And basically they said, look, Penn's coming over and he's heading over to Ukraine and he's going to travel and spend a decent amount of time over there. Do you want to, and I guess it was one of those things for both you and I, like we,

It was one of the, I mean, we traveled over there upon our own fruition. So we weren't aligned with any particular charity. So what that gave us the ability to do was to travel around and, you know, where things were happening. I guess for the listeners, within a sort of war zone like this, you know, there are areas where there's absolutely nothing happening. And then suddenly something, there'll be a flash point and everything will happen in a certain area. And if you're sitting around where nothing's happening, then I guess you really

not making as big of an impact, if you can get to those locations and you can be where things are happening, then of course that's where you can provide your biggest level of help. So we were able to pick up and move wherever we needed to, just like we did with D.O.S. we moved to Ada and then across the border into Lviv and these sorts of things.

So look, yes, it was just through chatting and someone said, look, Penn's heading over to Ukraine. Do you wanna head with him? And I said, yeah, yeah, why not? And they said, do you know Penn? I said, no, don't know anything about him. okay, well, you'll meet him. And I was like, who am I gonna meet here? What's happening? And I mean, he's a great bloke. He really is a nice guy. he's just, yeah, as I said, like we...

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:11)

Mm-hmm.

Lachlan (29:26)

We experienced a lot together through that, heading over to that sort of east side, just seeing some of the destruction straight after. mean, one of the times, particularly in Earpene when we went in, we were one of the first to get in and we actually needed military, we went in an under military convoy into Earpene and then drove around, I guess, the suburbs.

you know, some of the first, well, the first apart from military to be in there and, you know, search for animals, not knowing what we were going to find. So we were going in through, you know, backyards in through houses, which are partly destroyed or fully destroyed, know, apartments, which are ripped open, smashed, you know, to pieces, not knowing whether we would find, you know, animals or dead people or, you know, what really we were going to

come up to, we actually found out that Russian sappers had been in the area, we only found that out a day or two afterwards. So there was certainly unexploded ordinances and there was a range of things that were there whilst we were looking throughout. I mean, me personally,

I guess there were certainly some horrific things that we did see as going in so early. And I guess, I don't know, don't know whether you want me to talk about them too much, but certainly what I could say is that from those early days, particularly there was a lot about, I guess, the atrocities that did occur. And I can tell you 100 % that they occurred because there were things that I saw that I can assure you there was.

nothing could be made up for that. So we went in there and spent time throughout there trying to bring back some animals and then sort of traveled on from there. And then guess since that time with Penn, mean, we've stayed in touch and he's asked me to...

He asked me to head over to Afghanistan with him. He has the Nowzad Hospital. And once again, I'd ask your listeners to look up Nowzad, the website, and have a look at bit of what they do. But they have a veterinary clinic and shelter and a donkey shelter in Kabul. And he asked me to come across and...

into Kabul with him and I guess train his veterinarians. So the veterinarians that are in Kabul in Afghanistan that work for the clinic are all Afghani vets and they are trained in Afghani universities. And I guess the quality of the training isn't quite at Western standards.

Penn wanted me to come in and work with these Afghani vets and train them up and really try and improve the standards and provide, currently as it is, now that hospital does provide the best care out of any vet clinic in the whole of Afghanistan. But I guess we want to continue to improve what they're doing. And I guess to give you a bit of an indication, like they have anesthetic machines, they have...

you know, quite a bit of equipment in there, but they did not have an x-ray machine. So not one, a standard staple, you know, for Canada, for Australia, for most clinics across the world, no Afghani veterinary clinic, no clinic in the whole of Afghanistan had an x-ray machine. And so,

Luckily, one of the great things I was able to do in my last trip was actually bring across a donated x-ray machine. So now the guys there have the only veterinary x-ray machine in Afghanistan. And they make the most of that. They do bone plating. They do a whole range of stuff. I work with them to train them on some bone plating, some dental extraction, a whole host of things that we've worked on. But, you know.

They're a great team and they're dedicated to what they do. They work 24 hours. They really are a great bunch of people in there and dedicated to help. But it's a different place, Afghanistan, compared to obviously Canada and Australia.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:12)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that, blew my mind and, and, and so much of it is my naivete, how naive I am with things were going on. So I'm reading this our operation arc book. I'll do, I'll do lot links to, to Penn's charity and whatnot on my, on my info page, but this book operation arc about, him getting these people and, these animals out of Afghanistan when, the shit hit the fan.

You know, I thought about it. I didn't realize why I kind of knew, but it really struck a chord when he talked about how the female veterinarians were never going to be allowed to be veterinarians anymore. Once the Taliban were coming in and you know that that's devastating and so sad. And then to hear that he went back and the, I guess the Taliban government, you know, accepted them back.

Lachlan (34:54)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:09)

As long as he kind of stays in his line, I don't know exactly how things work there. But like, what an amazing, it would have been, it would have been a hundred percent understandable if Penn was like, I'm never going back. I don't believe in this government. things have gone back a thousand years and civility, but he truly is in it for the animals and, you're truly in it for the animals. And, and to be able to teach these new veterinarians,

Lachlan (35:28)

Mm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:38)

now I guess all male right there's no female vets at the the current moment.

Lachlan (35:43)

Yeah, that's right. So my first trip to Afghanistan, I did do some training and I did train. So there was a female vet there and she was part of the training. In fact, what I understood is she had been given special permission by the Taliban to sit in on the training.

I guess as you do, there were some photos and these sorts of things, and guess some social media and now they've shared those social media and those photos. And that was actually picked up by the Taliban. And they actually went around to her house very quickly afterwards and ransacked the house. And she lives with her parents and ransacked the house and basically...

said you're not allowed to head into the clinic and do work like this. So unfortunately, as a result of that, she's not able to go into the clinic. She does still work for Nowzad, but I guess it's more from home where she provides more sort of accounting support and these sorts of things for the actual charity. I mean, she's a fully registered vet. She spent five years at university in Afghanistan. She's a very smart woman.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:43)

Yeah.

Lachlan (37:06)

She's a very nice woman, she's dedicated, but unfortunately she's just not able to work in the job that she's trained to and dedicated herself to for years. So yeah, it's really very sad.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:20)

Yeah, I guess it's one of those things that somebody pulled some strings and allowed her to to do the job that she should be allowed to do. And then once they someone else then saw it on social media and said, this is going to this is going to give these women, you know, a wrong impression. So we need to stop this right now, because heaven forbid people start to have some freedoms. But I

Lachlan (37:34)

Right.

I guess their argument

mate is that it's actually it's for her safety, you know, to be in an area or in a location, you know, in a work in small areas with other with men, which is which I mean, honestly, these guys are the most respectful and kind and nice people. It's just it's ridiculous. But I guess that's the that's the argument. Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:00)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

or maybe her safety and people in the public, you know, if there's people in the public who don't agree because they bought all in with the Taliban's regime, you know, she'll be harassed, she'll be assaulted, you know, who knows. So what was that? You'd never been to Afghanistan before prior to that first trip.

Lachlan (38:19)

Yeah.

No, no, never been to Afghanistan before prior to that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:38)

What was that like? mean, you know, I've had a lot of people ask me about, can I join you on these trips? And, you know, I'm not doing, I'm not going to places where you're going, but, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't really bring anyone deep into Ukraine. When I went the second time, I didn't bring Emily for obvious reasons. and, and even when I'm going to Egypt or Panama or whatever, I don't bring anyone. don't know because

Lachlan (38:57)

Mm.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:07)

If they're not prepared, you know, it's, going to be pretty ugly and pretty uncomfortable. just for this, a place that's a little bit less developed in Canada, let alone, you know, where there's a war going on or whatnot. But with you being in Ukraine a couple of times, like did Penn prepare you well for what you're going to see? Like how was you step off the plane and you start driving, driving through the streets of Kabul. What were your thoughts?

Lachlan (39:37)

I guess, I, on that first trip, I did spend a couple of days with Penn in the UK and we went through, you know, I guess a range of sort of scenarios that could occur. So, you know, I, you know, he did give me, you know, a good head, a very good sort of rounding as to, you know, what we would need to do in certain instances. And, you know, he did prepare me.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:48)

Hmm.

Lachlan (40:05)

quite well for what I was going into. Probably what I would say, mean, look, a lot sort of struck me when I first went in, but what I would say is it's very much like the movies. It really is. Like you get off that plane and it's like those movies. It's like the war movie. you just sort of, you know,

And it's a very, I mean, it's one of the poorest countries on earth. So there's a lot of poverty. It's very busy. There's a lot of cars. There's a lot of people. There's a lot of really, really lovely people. One of the things that I really liked actually that I wasn't aware of to the extent that I was is how much they love cricket. Being an Aussie, I love my cricket as well. So it was really cool to drive past and see people.

playing cricket. I would have loved to have got out and actually played with them, but I guess for safety reasons, know, we had to be, we do have to be very careful. You can't be out and about and these sorts of things. So I guess what we do is we spend most of our time in the compound and the compound itself is the actual vet clinic. And it's, I guess one of the, yeah, it's, I mean, it's an interesting vet clinic. It's not like nothing you would been

to in your life, is in a compound. Those compound walls are one meter thick, they're bomb blast thick. They have steel gate with a manhole that opens and there's a security guard that basically, a client comes to bring their animal. They call prior to announce that they're coming. The security guard or shalkey door as he's called, comes and opens the slit, looks out.

then opens the steel gated door and the actual, the walls are a meter thick and they're probably about three, three and a half meters high with razor wire on top of them all around the actual compound. The buildings inside the compound have safe rooms. So those safe rooms are effectively rooms that you can run into on, if very quickly for safety.

and they lock from the inside. So they're steel gated doors. you basically, if something's gonna happen, and as you say, if shit hits the fan, you quickly bolt in to those safe rooms and then lock your door. to be in there and you spend most of your time, I guess, in the actual clinic, working in the clinic, but then when you go out and about.

depending on where you're headed and whether how far out you're headed from Kabul and what location. Typically, it's just best to just keep your face sort of covered and maybe just keep on the down low just to not draw attention to yourself because yeah, the other thing too, I guess, because of the security situation in Afghanistan, at the moment, it's a very insecure, it's an unsecure place.

There's a lot of, you know, the Taliban are trying to maintain control, but there's also other groups that are trying to wrestle control from them. So probably every few blocks, there's a Taliban roadblock, Taliban roadblock with, you know, guys with M16s or AK-47s, know, fully kitted up and effectively they're kitted up with all the ex-

American military gear, know, with humvees and a range of things, you know, stopping and checking and, you know, so just to get from the airport to the actual clinic, you know, there's multiple stops you've got to get through really for that in itself. So, yeah, I mean, it's one of those things I do see that some people are starting to head to Afghanistan for tourism reasons.

You know, I think once you spend a bit of time there and you know the reality of actually what is occurring without people truly knowing, I certainly don't recommend going to Afghanistan or a tourist trip. And probably I'd just say, just read in the news just before, probably a couple of hours ago that one, American who's headed there two years ago has been kept in captive by the Taliban for two years. And he just headed over there as a tourist.

So as my second trip coming back at the end of last year, he was a Canadian, Canadian Dave, who I'm not sure whether you know, but he's done a very sort of similar thing to what Penn had done. He spent some tours over there. He made a lot of contacts and rescued quite a number of people from Afghanistan.

Look, he traveled in and out of Afghanistan frequently and he actually got taken by the Afghani secret service while we were there. were actually ready to go around to his place for dinner and he actually got taken just prior to us going there and he was held for a couple of months by the Taliban and he's just only been released probably about a month ago.

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:43)

Jesus.

Lachlan (45:47)

He's safe and sound and these sort of things, fortunately. yeah, it's certainly not a safe place to go to.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:01)

Do you... It's okay if you don't want to talk about this, but I have feeling you're an open book. You got to be feeling the effects of this. When I came back the second trip in Ukraine where I was near and towards the war zone, it affected me. I nightmares, I had trouble sleeping for a good year after loud noises bothered me.

I would say PTSD, very, very small case. PTSD. I mean, there's obviously the good things that this has done for me and has done for you. I'm sure about the, love of humanity and the, the ability to make a difference. and when there's these, you know, conflicts at work, back home, or even arguments with your spouse, they're not as big of a deal anymore. After you've dealt with the stuff you've dealt with, it's really made you appreciate your life. But.

Do you find that you occasionally have trouble sort of returning back to what we would call normal life after these kinds of trips?

Lachlan (47:12)

I guess, yes. I think I find myself wanting to go and to go back and to go and help more because I just know that these things are occurring and I know what's going on and I know that I can help. I guess it's sort of...

I don't know, you know, which one's real? What's reality? You know, is it over there where you're helping or is it back home, you know, where everything's sort of occurring and it's sort of, you're somewhat removed from reality in either location. And yeah, look, I mean, how much, you know, from a PTSD sort of standpoint, I think, I mean, from the way that I see it, I think I'm okay. I think that certainly,

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:50)

Mm-hmm.

Lachlan (48:05)

I would say from my first trip, coming back and, as I said, headed into those areas straight after the Russians had pulled out. honestly, I saw cars that had been with bullet holes straight through the windshield with blood spattered all over the place. I helped move dead bodies around to...

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:32)

Hmm.

Lachlan (48:34)

into morgue vans and these sorts of things. I opened up apartments that smelt expecting to walk in to find people that were no longer alive. Certainly many dead animals and a range of things that way. I think I came back from that trip in particular and I remember it quite distinctly because my kids picked me up from the airport and I headed straight down.

down to the Gold Coast, to the beach where my parents-in-law live. And the kids picked me up and we headed straight down there and actually very quickly we went into one of the local shopping centers and we had some lunch there. And I just remember looking around thinking to myself, like, what the fuck are people doing?

People wander around and they care about the color of their hair, they care about what shoes they're wearing, they care about these minuscule and minute little things that make no difference in reality of the grand scheme of things. know, when on the other side of the world, you know, people are dying, people are losing families, people are losing their houses, you know, there's all these sorts of things that are occurring and here's us, you know, you know, caring about, you know, these things that are just of little importance.

So I remember that distinctly. And I guess I do get a bit of that every time I come back from somewhere, but I probably try to accept it a little bit more. yeah, so I'm happy to say I haven't had any trouble sleeping or anything like that.

I think, you another time, which was a bit strange and my wife thought it was particularly strange, but we're in Japan, you know, taking the kids skiing and we were going to a, just a random sort of a town and unbeknownst to me, I could hear all this, I could hear all this banging and sort of these noises far off in the distance. And I knew just innately that they were bombs going off. I knew that something was going on.

and it just kept on going and bang and bang. My wife and the kids were just walking around shopping and these sorts of things. And so was everyone else. They weren't paying any attention. And I was just hyper-focused on the fact that there were these bombs going off in the distance. I was saying to my wife, what is going on? What is happening? How is this, how, she was like, what are you talking about? Don't worry about it. I'm like, no, mate.

You need to know because if this truly is something that's happening, we need to be the first people out of here. You cannot wait. You cannot be the last because that's when you have trouble. You need to be aware and that's the way you stay alive. Anyway, so she thought I was crazy. And it turns out that what it was, which we've been going on for quite a while, I mean, maybe it was going on for half an hour and I really was very aware of it. I ended up asking some Japanese people who...

who worked around there and there was a US military base and they were doing live fire exercises there. But I just thought what could be happening in Japan? This is too random, this is too frequent, is something truly happening? So that's probably one other sort of thing that I could tell you that's happened that sort of maybe made me sort of hyper-sensitive and overreact to something that maybe I shouldn't have.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:19)

Yeah, well I mean it sounds like you handled it well. I guess it's better to... Yeah, and you would have done it calmly and with composure, which is key.

Lachlan (52:24)

Well, I tell you mate, I would have been the first one out of there if there really was something going on.

It's just about being alert, isn't

it? It's about being alert and aware and obviously not going over the top and just looking for opportunities, looking just being ahead of the game, I suppose.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:55)

Yeah. Yeah. Keep your head on a swivel. And as we say here in Canada, elbows up, as we're saying right now, which is like a hockey fighting. It's all a whole, in, in response to, Trump talking about annexing Canada, which no one really believes is going to happen. There's no way, you know, he's just, he's just being a, a blowhard, but, you know, we're kind of.

Lachlan (53:05)

Okay.

Oh yes, I was going to say. That's right.

Of course not. Of course not.

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:23)

All right, elbows up, man. You're coming in here. We're putting our elbows up like a good hockey player. There you go. Yeah. And then we would, and then we'd patch them up and get them a nice, nice, nice coffee or poutine or something. They, that's right. Have you been to Canada?

Lachlan (53:26)

That'd be nice to watch I think.

Very friendly, very friendly.

I have been to Canada, yeah. I have, yeah. I've been a couple of times, but not travelled too much throughout Canada.

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:48)

We gotta get you to...

No, no, we gotta get you... Where were you when you came here?

Lachlan (53:56)

I was, I went to Montreal and where else did I head? I went to the falls, started down there, Quebec City. Yeah, I haven't been out west. I'd love to head out west. I'd love to go to Whistler, mate. I'd love to go some of the ski fields you guys have got. I'd love to head up into the Arctic.

Dr. Cliff Redford (54:00)

Beauty.

Nice. Yeah, yeah.

Lachlan (54:25)

I obviously saw you spending your time up in the Arctic. I was very, very jealous with what you were doing up there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (54:30)

Ha ha ha.

They also

didn't have an x-ray machine for years. And the second time we went up, which was just recently, they were excited they had an x-ray machine. Of course, it could tell you if the bones were broken, but I had to do two bladder surgeries without confirmation that they're actually bladder stones. Yeah, it was, you know what, it was like, as we kind of start wrapping this up, we'll do funny stories instead.

Lachlan (54:54)

Right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:02)

It was, the dog was big enough that I was like, well, it looks like there's something in the bladder. Let's, let's go take a look. And the stones were a good centimeter in size and they still barely showed up. But the cat was one where, you know, every three months when a vet shows up, the cat would have, you know, horrible hematuria and straining to urinate. They'd stick them on antibiotics and it would go away.

Lachlan (55:13)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:32)

And then it would come back, you know, a month later and no vet, no vet, no vet. And then eventually the would show up and all right, let's do another course of antibiotics. because they didn't have an X-ray, right? And at the time prior to that, they didn't have blood work. They didn't have anything. At least we had a blood machine the second time we went up. And, I basically said to them, and one vet had, had sort of made a, a tentative diagnosis of interstitial cystitis.

Lachlan (55:43)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:59)

and was going to then, and for those listening, so that's like a, let's think of it as a stomach ulcer, but in the bladder lining, non-bacterial related, non, non-stone or crystal related. and they were starting to prescribe prednisone, for this cat with, you know, presumed IC. And, I said, I, this doesn't sound right. so I, so I basically talked them into it. I was like, look, I think your cat's got stones.

and let's do surgery and it'll be a true bladder exploratory. I'm gonna go in and take a look and if there's no stones, I am not leaving empty handed, I will biopsy the bladder wall and then we can confirm, we can confirm, is this a deep infection inside the tissue or is this truly interstitial cystitis so we can properly treat it without guessing and.

I gotta say I was pretty happy when I stuck my little spay hook in there and heard the clink as it hit a few rocks. And of course came out to be streuvite, chronic infection, that sort of thing. So it's definitely, they're developing as far as their ability as a veterinarian clinic, but way different than what you had to do, for sure. So when are you leaving?

Lachlan (57:08)

want some?

Dr. Cliff Redford (57:25)

for Ukraine.

Lachlan (57:26)

I leave on my birthday actually, it's my 45th birthday, 12th of April it is.

Dr. Cliff Redford (57:30)

Yeah.

12th of April. So I think this episode will be coming out a couple of days before you leave. Can people, as we wrap this up, can people like donate? Can people help out? How can they follow you? Like how can they help?

Lachlan (57:49)

So I guess people can follow me certainly through my Instagram. that is, and I'm sure you can pop this up a bit later, but it's Dr. Lachlan Campbell Osvet. That's my Instagram account. Otherwise, I mean, I would say the best way to donate to these...

for this trip and to assist animals in Ukraine is through their Nowzad website. And they have, there's an opportunity there for you to donate through the website there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (58:26)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I'll get everyone listening, please donate, please check out the little summary page on however you listen to this, whether it's Spotify, Apple, or Virgin Radio, or however you listen to this podcast. Listen, dude.

Lachlan (58:44)

I think,

without, I need you to, there's one story that I think that you need to tell people before we sign off. And that is the story of us rescuing that buck in Poland. And I think I want to hear it come from you because I think you're a good storyteller and I might add a few things to it, but I certainly think unless you've told this before to your listeners, it's certainly worth the story.

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:13)

No, no, I haven't really. So what I'm gonna first do is I'm gonna pull up that little paragraph that I sent you from my book. I'll do a little prologue and epilogue as well, but bear with me one second, everybody. Hey, by the time this comes out, it'll already be announced. I think I told you, I found a publisher. Yeah, very, very excited. Very, very excited.

Lachlan (59:36)

You did tell me mate, I'm super excited for you. It's very, that's very cool mate. I'm very much looking forward to that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:42)

and you're gonna be in that book as well. I love it. Maybe that's the secret to people trying to get a book written is they gotta hang out with Dr. Lachlan Campbell and there you go. That's all right, that'd be cool as long as they're doing good stuff. there was like, I believe ever since I started dating and now married my Greek wife, she's taught me about the Greek fates. And I'm starting to think these things exist because

Lachlan (59:51)

Maybe, maybe that's all right. Yeah.

That's true.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:00:11)

You know, we're working, you know, what 45 minutes outside of the border working with Diaz and we had a quiet day. So you and I decided to go hiking. This was a day before Emily joined us. And first of all, we were going to go to this one park and I got lost. You got lost. You. We're just like all over the place and we're like, you know what? Screw it. Let's head towards the, the, the shelter.

Lachlan (1:00:31)

Yes, the Google map wasn't doing well, it doing this well, was it?

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:00:40)

And there's some, you know, it's in, it's in God's country there. It's a beautiful Hills and lakes. We'll be able to figure something out. And I had seen, I had seen a sign or something. And, so I ended up pinning you on, on pinning you on my phone. And we go, so we go hiking. We don't know where we are. We were about a kilometer away from the shelter, but it was clearly a trail and kind of a road. And first I remember we're walking up.

this sort of hill and there's this clearing to our right and there's this wooden tower. And you go, what do you think? I wish I could do your accent and whatnot. And I do talk in the book how I never really actually thought you Ozzy said mate as much as you do. And you're like, hey mate, what do you think those towers are for? And I said, I think those are hunting towers. You're like, what do you reckon that people are hunting around here? And I'm like, I don't know, like boar and deer.

And you said to me, and if you don't remember this or you disagree, I'm going to argue because I wrote it all in my journal about four hours later. You're like, I don't think there's deer around here. Do you think there's deer around here? And then literally I turn and there's this freaking deer bucking around with its antlers wrapped up in this rope. And then I'll, I'll, I'll read this thing word from word from my book, unless the editor changes it.

Lachlan (1:01:44)

Yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:02:06)

Um, so then Laughlin says time to be heroes, mate. Laughlin declared, was still getting used to the reality that Australians really did say mate. Laughlin flashed me a grin and strode off across the field towards the panic buck. All right. I replied, but let's think about how we should handle this. Easy. said, let's just tackle it mate. Thus ended our strategy session. I couldn't argue. I like to think of myself as an adventurer, a bit of a cowboy, eager to jump in and get things done.

Lachlan was one too. In Australia, I learned they would have called us a ringer. But given that neither of us really knew what we were doing, the more appropriate Aussie slang for both of us on that day would have probably have been Jackaroos, very loosely translated from an Aboriginal language as wandering no nothing white men. So yeah, you literally just said, let's just go grab it. I'm like, all right. So we go and what's that?

Lachlan (1:02:55)

Ha

we had to do something, didn't we? Yep.

We had to do something, didn't we?

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:03:05)

We had to do something. this, this, I mean, it was probably what? 180 pounds. Maybe it was a, it was a good size. it was a good size buck and someone had built or put a giant rope all across this open field. now I realized, or later I realized, it was probably the hunters. So they would go up. They would hope that a deer would get trapped.

Lachlan (1:03:12)

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:03:30)

And then they wouldn't have to wait around and they could, they could just go and shoot it. And now they got their food. so we foiled their plans that day, but, so I grabbed the rope and I'll, and I'll, I'll put a link again in my little summary thing. Cause we have a brilliant video of this whole thing. I will grab, I grabbed the rope and slowly kind of like hand over hand, get towards this thing as it's spinning left and right, left and right. You just run up to the thing as I'm holding the rope and grab the base of the horns.

and try and wrestle it to the ground. Now it first tosses you onto your back, slams you to the ground. You don't let go of the antlers, which good on you, man. Like I knew you had some BJJ training, but you're definitely, you're definitely hardcore. And I'm just standing there slowly going hand over hand and, and then you pop back up.

kind of drive him or he runs, starts to buck towards me. And I like to think that my judo black belt training kicked in and I felt or somehow sensed an opportunity. but I think it was more luck. I think it, it, it bucked towards me and like a good Canadian boy, I put my shoulder down and my elbows up, and it just tumbled to the ground. And then we just jumped on top of it and, and, and I covered its eyes up.

so it got less stressed and then I just held it and filmed it and talked about capture myopathy and, tried to educate the future viewers while you did all the work of, it took us about 20 minutes to take that. To, take that rope. Cause we didn't have a knife. didn't, you know, it didn't have any of that stuff. and then the thing jumps up, we finally get it loose. The thing jumps up, goes tearing across the field. No thank you. How rude.

Lachlan (1:05:09)

time wasn't it really was.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:05:25)

tearing across the field and then almost gets caught up in another rope before it, it heads to the, to the forest. But, yeah, it was, it was just one of those things that, know what we probably, well, not we probably, we should have taken 60 seconds to think about this and talk about, Hey, let's not get hurt. Let's not get the buck hurt. you know, like, you know, all those things, but,

Lachlan (1:05:29)

Yep.

now I might as well end up with a...

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:05:55)

whatever, the, as Cheesy John from the UK would say, we're part of the get off the couch gang and we just get off the couch and do things. But is that how you remember it or were you?

Lachlan (1:06:06)

That's yeah, well that's what

happened. That's it. I mean, I think the thing for me, you know, was just the really big thing for me is you and I, you know, getting lost, having no idea where we are, stopping really on the side of the road and just walk, going for a bush walk wherever we can find. And, and, know, as you say, there was some paths, but they weren't proper bush walking paths. So we just kept walking for a while and we were just enjoying getting out in the bush and, you know, seeing some of the Polish, the Polish bush. then to come across that and

two random veterinarians strolling across the bush or bush walking from either side of the globe, meeting up in Poland and then stumbling across this buck that's randomly caught in rope and then rescuing him. It was a pretty cool experience.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:06:55)

Yeah, there were so

many steps that went wrong to end up us in this field. So now we could say, nothing went wrong at all. We were, we were meant to get lost and then not go to the original, you know, park and we were meant to do this. And then we were, I just happened to see a truck pull out of this, this sort of a dirt road that, quickly turned into nothing.

Lachlan (1:07:01)

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Still part of the plan, Mike. That's a lot.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:07:23)

when I pulled over and said, Hey, there's a lake on my map, you know, about a kilometer in. let's, you know, come meet me here. That's right. Yeah. no, I don't think we did. We, think afterwards we went down and we saw the, we saw the, lake. I believe so. don't remember everything was such a blur after that deer, but, yeah, like, if we were so many things could have changed, like if we were even.

Lachlan (1:07:28)

Yes, we never saw that light, did we?

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:07:52)

30 minutes early or 30 minutes late, either that buck wouldn't be there likely or that buck would be dead. I mean, there were vultures circling above us. Like it was pretty crazy. And not only two people to find this buck, but two veterinarians who are in pretty good shape, are good enough shape to know how to do this, you know, and...

Lachlan (1:07:58)

Yes.

Yes, yes they were. Yep, yep.

Bring it in. Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:08:19)

not so young that we did get hurt and not so old that we also didn't get hurt. So it worked out great and one hell of a story, man. It was absolutely crazy. I don't know about you, and I've talked about this before in this podcast, animals seem to find me, like wild injured animals seem to find me. I've had injured raccoons come to my front door in the middle of Toronto. I've had, you know,

Lachlan (1:08:39)

Mmm, mmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:08:49)

things like this deer or driving down the road and seeing a snapping turtle that's been injured on my way to Shades of Hope so I can pick it up, stick it in my car and then take it to the wildlife place. Yeah, so do you find that? Do you find the Aussie animals that knock on your door because they know you're a veterinarian?

Lachlan (1:08:59)

Yes, can help us try it out. Yep.

Well, I mean, there's certainly a lot of wild animals in Australia and you do work with them over time and you do help them out. I'd probably say probably no more than anyone else that I'm aware of, but maybe they do. Maybe I haven't thought about it too much, to be honest.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:09:25)

Who knows, who knows? You gotta keep your, keep aware and keep your head on a swivel, just like when you're in Japan. There you go. Listen man, I do wish I could see your face. I'll hit you up. You're not leaving for a couple of weeks, so I'll hit you up on WhatsApp and we can do a little video chat later on in the week or sometimes before you go. But it's been a real pleasure and you know, I smile.

Lachlan (1:09:32)

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

That'd be good.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:09:54)

Every time I think of you, I smile. You're one of my favorite people for sure. And I can't wait to come down to your country and surf a little bit and see if we can change our Jackaroo title to Ringers.

Lachlan (1:10:10)

Yeah, absolutely,

mate. I'd love that. I'd love that. Or at the very least, well, the other way around, I've got to come to Canada and meet you and see you over there. That'd be fantastic.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:10:18)

That's fine. We'll do a little bit of each. Yeah, there's not great skiing where I am. That's not bad. But you come down here for a bit and then head west.

Lachlan (1:10:29)

We'll swap surfing spots mate, I've seen you surfing and it does look bit sort of chilly compared to what I'm used to but I'm sure I can survive.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:10:39)

It's, I mean,

in the, in the six, it's a six, eight millimeter wetsuit. You're quite warm. it helps to pee in it before you get in the water. so I, I'm never cold, even when it's like minus 15, I'm never cold. but the waves are there. They are harsh. They're like, it's like trying to surf in a washing machine. or maybe I just suck at surfing. That's probably what it is.

Lachlan (1:11:04)

Right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:11:09)

but, if you come down the winter time, yeah, well, definitely. Cause there's only really surfing here in the cold six months. yeah, the, winds, cause we're all wind based, right? And, the winds just aren't strong and consistent enough, sweeping along Lake Ontario to pick up the, to pick up the, the waves. I've been surfing now for five ish years, I think. And only once did I surf.

Lachlan (1:11:16)

really? Wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:11:39)

No, twice did I surf during the summer and it was basically like the first weekend in September. So it was barely summer. And the waves were nice, but it's almost always winter time. But if you come in the winter, we got Christmas markets and just some beautiful places. Toronto is an amazing city and it sounds like you've never been here.

Lachlan (1:11:45)

Yes.

Well, sounds pretty cool, mate. I really can't imagine how cold that would be. I I find it cold here in Australia when the water's sub 20 degrees Celsius. So that's freezing to me. So to surf when you're surfing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:12:14)

Yeah.

it's very cold.

Yeah, yeah. mean, our wetsuits are super thick, very difficult to get up on, like to move around. got booties, we got mittens, we got hoodies. So the only thing showing is our faces. And as I tell everybody, we look like fat penguins running around out in the, in fact, I've had people that when they've gone to the East coast and they're surfing in the East coast and during the winter time.

Lachlan (1:12:29)

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:12:47)

people will be like, hey, I thought I saw seal, seals swimming around in the water and then they zoom in with their camera and they realize, holy shit, these are Canadian surfers out in the freezing cold water. you know, it's all about the gear and whatever, it's a couple of fingers you lose from frostbite. got seven or eight more, so it's not a big deal.

Lachlan (1:12:50)

Enough with.

Well,

yep, I guess you do. That's it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:13:12)

That's why you got to grow a beard though before if you don't have one you got to grow a beard before you come here so you can get an ice beard.

Lachlan (1:13:16)

Nah, I've still got my beard mate, I

keep that running so that's alright.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:13:20)

Beauty, Excellent, buddy. Thanks so much. And it's really, really nice talking to you. It warms my heart.

Lachlan (1:13:29)

Yeah, really good to see you, mate. Great to see you as well. Really good to speak and great to see you. So, you know, hopefully we'll talk again soon, shortly.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:13:36)

100%. All right, everyone, thanks for listening. I'm gonna have Lachlan stay on while I figure out editing just for a minute, but be kind to animals and get out there and volunteer and don't take the little things so seriously. It's not that big of a deal if you didn't get the right type of oat, skim milk, whatever latte on your drink. Just take things by stride, man. It's a good time.

Lachlan (1:14:04)

Beauty, mate. Good to speak to you. Good to speak to you. Good to see you all. And yeah, take care.