Dr. Heidi Wong - Alderwood Veterinary Clinic

In this episode of Vet Life with Dr. Cliff, Dr. Heidi Wong shares her journey of opening Alderwood Vet Clinic in Toronto. She discusses the challenges faced during the startup phase, the importance of teamwork in veterinary practice, and their commitment to environmental sustainability. Dr. Wong also offers valuable advice for aspiring veterinary practice owners, emphasizing the importance of guidance and support in navigating the complexities of running a clinic.

You can learn more about Alderwood Vet Clinic at https://www.alderwoodvet.ca/ and follow them on IG at @alderwoodvet.

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com and on Twitter at @drcliff_vet
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:10)
Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of vet life with Dr. Cliff. Today's keynote speaker. Today's main guest is Dr. Heidi Wong out of the Alderwood vet hospital, veterinary clinic in Etobicoke, Toronto. I reached out to Heidi. I actually know one of her teammates, Jess. Shout out to Jessica at Toronto boxing academy and a previous guest of the show.

I reached out to Dr. Heidi because, uh, well, frankly, I was, I was intrigued by hers and her business partner's, uh, story regarding all the sort of challenges they had to overcome in opening up their animal hospital. And for those of you who listen or those of you who know me, and those are not the same. lot of you who know me do not listen, uh, maybe because you've heard my stories all the time, uh, on my own. Uh, I do like to chat.

Um, those of you who know me know that, uh, I am inspired by people who do inspiring shit basically who, who, who reach out and grab life by the horns much like Dr. Loughlin did with the, uh, the antler deer that we had to rescue off up in Poland. Um, when we were volunteering years ago, anyways, um, I do like, uh, I do like people that are kind of savages when it comes to

chasing their dreams and not giving up, especially like Heidi and her partner's case. didn't really have a chance to give up anymore because they had, they had already, ⁓ gone all in on this, ⁓ on this dream to own an animal hospital. And once you've paid all your money and there's delays with permits, there's nothing you can do, but, wait. So it's a great, it's a great interview and something I think you're going to find very inspiring. But first.

We have our second or I guess our true first ⁓ episode of my father talking about all the things he knows best. So stay tuned for that.

Ross Redford (02:23)
it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:24)
You can hear me though.

Ross Redford (02:26)
I can hear you just, and I don't need hearing aids yet.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:30)
Yeah, you

don't need hearing aids yet. All right. Well, let's just do this. Welcome to your favorite part of the podcast. Dad knows best. Thanks. Thanks for joining me. Papa Ross. We're going to talk about a bunch of different things. First of all, are there, are there any corrections?

Ross Redford (02:46)
You're welcome.

No, but I wanted to say that I listened two days ago to ⁓ the, I think he was the guy you were talking to in New York City about the bodega cats of New York. And it's one that I think people should listen to. ⁓ One of the better ones. And ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:56)
that you can think of.

yes.

Ross Redford (03:20)
I realized at the beginning of program you had to get a description of a bodega and I remember being on a trip in the United States and a guy from New Jersey, so that would be the greater New York area, was talking about people in a bodega and I had to have him explain to me what a bodega was.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:40)
Yeah, and I don't

know if that's a, is that a New York term or is that an American term?

Ross Redford (03:45)
I think it's Puerto Rican because there's a lot of Puerto Ricans and like another nationality in Canada that seem to go into the convenience store business that in New York City, the little convenience stores that get into selling food and probably lottery tickets and wine, I think that a lot of them are... ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:49)
that's right, yes.

Ross Redford (04:14)
operated by people from Puerto Rico.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:17)
Yeah, I actually just checked it here and my phone says the term bodega originates from Spanish, where it translates to store room, wine cellar or warehouse. In New York city, it evolved to refer to a small grocery store or convenience store, particularly in Spanish speaking communities. This usage was influenced by Latin X immigrants who opened these stores and established the bodega as a common feature of New York city neighborhoods. There you go.

Ross Redford (04:45)
Yeah.

And my friend talked about, I think it's a place where people will hang out as well. You know, having coffee, having just hanging out in the neighborhood. And my friend was talking about when there would be an accident, like a bus crash, all kinds of people would come out of the bodega and claim that they had been on the bus and injured.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:14)
There you go. Especially in the US, it's a pretty litigious society. ⁓ As in referring to litigation. ⁓

Ross Redford (05:16)
Ha!

Yeah. Yeah.

also happened in Toronto when there was a subway crash years ago and they narrowed down they almost reduced the number of people who were claiming by two they almost ⁓ cut them in half by saying so what direction was the train going in?

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:42)
Forward. I was just saying forward. There you go. I appreciate that. Thank you, dad. All right. All right. ⁓ so our topic of today regarding, ⁓ dad knows best, ⁓ you and I were having some, some text communications regarding, ⁓

Ross Redford (05:44)
Well, yeah, but they weren't as smart as you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:08)
the political landscape here in Canada because we're recording this on Sunday and tomorrow is federal election day here in Canada. ⁓ this comes out, I guess, the day after the election. I am gonna roll the dice and say congratulations, Mark Carney, on becoming not only our prime minister but leader of a majority government. That is my prediction. ⁓

Ross Redford (06:08)
a family member.

and

Jagmeet Singh, we're sorry that you didn't do very well.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:37)
We're sorry they didn't do very well. I don't know if he's going to get 12 seats, but my understanding is if he does not get 12 seats, the party, I don't know if it's just the leading party can still grant them official party status. Is that right?

Ross Redford (06:56)
I didn't know that and I'm not sure they would.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:59)
I we're gonna find out. think they will. I don't know. We're gonna find out.

Ross Redford (07:04)
And the

other thing is he may not get his own seat, in which case he'll probably resign. He may resign at any rate.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:10)
Yeah. And even if he, even if

he gets his seat and just doesn't do well, mean, ⁓ you know, it, it, it, I think they've, they've gone downhill the last 10 years, right? Their numbers have slowly decreased. Yeah. And this is going to be a

Ross Redford (07:27)
sharply, sharply. And

this election has become, they call it a binary election. The bloc in Quebec have also gone down significantly or are expected to. And people have decided, okay, who do I want to be opposing Trump? Will it be the liberals or the conservatives? Now, if you have American listeners, they may not understand our party system that has four parties and...

first pass the post in each riding and the party that has the most seats usually becomes the government.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:05)
Yeah, well, we've got more than four parties. mean, the green are probably going to pick up two seats minimum.

Ross Redford (08:10)
Well, okay, so that would,

well, so they don't have official party status, although they still stand in the hallways and do press conferences, which is what Jagmeet or his replacement would do without party status. Yes, they're, in one of the writings, there's 91 people on the ballot.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:15)
Correct. Correct.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that happens with the American political system, too. I mean, they'll have they'll have, ⁓ you know, 50 people running for governor. It's just they're all independents except for two.

Ross Redford (08:44)
Yeah, yeah

there are anyway yes there's the Green Party, there's the People's Party of Canada that's never elected anybody, there's the Animal Protection Party of Canada that's hoping to get their first seat.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:58)
What do mean the Green Party of Canada has never elected? They've got two, don't they?

Ross Redford (09:02)
No, know people's party of Canada.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:05)
people, sorry, sorry. Yeah, you're right.

Ross Redford (09:07)
Yeah, the Green has two

and the People's Party, which was started by a guy who left in anger from the conservatives. He's never been able to elect anybody, but they get enough votes that they may unelect some of the conservatives.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:24)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, but the same thing happens in certain writings regarding NDP taking from the liberals or the block taking from the liberals or et cetera, et cetera. mean, like that happens, that happens. And, and I guess there's a segue, like the conversation you and I had was I was, I was, there was, there was a text between family members and I was avoiding and answering in commenting.

Ross Redford (09:35)
Yes, splitting the boat.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:51)
And I think you commented to me that, that I don't seem to talk that much. I said, yeah, I don't talk to people about politics. ⁓ and it's not that I just don't want the conflict. It's, it's more that for the most part, I recognize the value in, in all the different parties. I'm not going to say all the different parties, but I recognize the value in, the four main parties. ⁓ and I certainly don't have a hatred for any of them.

I don't disagree with, ⁓ many of their stances for any of the parties, but I also recognize that, you know, Pauliev wants Canada to be better. Carney wants Canada to be better. Singh wants Canada to be better. Everybody wants Canada to be better. They just want it in different ways. And maybe it seems like I'm sitting on a fence and getting splinters up my, backside.

⁓ but, ⁓ you know, I've, I've learned, and this is something I've worked on over my, my, my life and my career, not just through politics, but just recognizing that, you know, someone not agreeing with me on something that's, that's pretty important politics or let's say animal care. I try and understand their point of view and still

support them if they're doing it for the right reasons, you know, if if if someone is Not caring about their pet and their pet is suffering. Well, then I speak up, but I have people that feed Dog a certain type of dog food that I don't like and I and I explain to them the the concerns I have they then make an informed decision and I support them on that decision because it doesn't help for me to keep trying to bully my point, but

I guess the question I have for you is, cause you just sent me a reply text saying, you know, being neutral is good, except you have to speak up when, when you really disagree with something. Where do you get that? Like, where's that line? ⁓ you know, do you, is it just really a matter of passion or do you worry about, do you take into account who you're talking to and, and who they are in your life?

Ross Redford (12:11)
Yes.

It needs to be somebody you care about. Well, you might also speak up to people you don't care about when it seems important. But beyond that, it's people you care about and if they just seem to be ⁓ wrong or misunderstanding.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:19)
Okay.

⁓

Yeah. But I guess that's the thing. Like when it comes to politics though, is so much of it. There are going to be times where it's not a level of, well, you just misunderstand. It's, it's, it's more.

Ross Redford (12:48)
Paulie

Veer wants to have a government similar to Trump. He wants to give tax cuts to the wealthy and small tax cuts to the not so wealthy. And he's going to do it by cutting government expenditures and trying to cut whatever social programs he can and not expanding the ones that need to be expanded.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:10)
Yeah.

Right. Except, and I, and I don't know the answer to that because, I've, I've found over the years and, and it's certainly possible that I'm incorrect that, you know, if you, if you have, people who support party B will say, well, party A is bad because of these three reasons. And then if you speak to party A supporters, they'll say, no, those three reasons are not correct. And.

Here's why I don't like party B. And the reality is, is a lot of times we're wrong in our, in our knowledge, you know, because we're, we, we hang around the same people and the same, you know, the, the same sort of thinking people and they, they get their information from sources that may not be a hundred percent accurate. mean, there are social services and programs that poly have wants to increase. ⁓

and

Ross Redford (14:14)
Further, which ones?

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:16)
well, was that one that, that, that we were sent regarding, ⁓ supporting caregivers of people with special needs. You know, so, so, and, and, and, and that's such a small, tiny little thing. But what I'm saying is, is, is I, I wasn't aware of that. And I'm sure if I really took a deep dive again, I would find there are, there are, ⁓ platform pieces from every single group.

Ross Redford (14:24)
That's true. Okay, yes, that's true.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:45)
that I, or every single group that I support, you know?

Ross Redford (14:49)
Paulibearer

put forward that proposal and it's a good proposal, but one of the things that people need to know is that he's doing the right thing, but he also understands that issue more than most people because he has a nonverbal daughter.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:07)
⁓

Yeah. Anyways, ⁓ like, you know, it's interesting. You say you, you, you would speak up, especially towards people that are, that are important in your life. And I, and I actually would have thought it was the opposite in the sense of you wouldn't want to risk alienating that person. Whereas if it is someone that is less important in your life, not a family member, let's say, ⁓ or a close friend, you'd be more.

willing to just agree with and, yeah, it's, it's hard.

Ross Redford (15:37)
Yeah, you're probably right on that. ⁓ But there are

people who I just casually know who are far right or just don't understand issues that aren't political who, okay, I just ignore them because it doesn't matter. And nobody's gonna believe them.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:05)
it doesn't matter and

Ross Redford (16:06)
and nobody's going to believe them, they'll just consider the source.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:09)
Right. Well, that's it. They're not going to, you're not going to be believed or you're not going to be believed. And it's just going to turn into an argument. And, ⁓ you know, that's sort of, ⁓ I try and keep my ears open and I keep my mouth shut, but I also have a filter on my ears. You know what I mean? Like,

Ross Redford (16:27)
They say that in the United States, the biggest cause of breakups in families and relationships, friendships and family relationships is because, and this was eight years ago, is because of where people sided with the politics of Trump. And so life is short. It's better to try and get along with your family members until it's just over the edge that you can't.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:46)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And the thing is though, for those, for those people who broke up with their spouse or their loved one over political disagreements, maybe you didn't, maybe you didn't have quite a strong relationship as you thought. Like, you know, instead of focusing on trying to get them to agree with you politically, how about you focus on trying to communicate and, and, and recognizing the people you love.

Ross Redford (17:06)
or wouldn't get together at Thanksgiving.

or

for putting it aside.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:25)
Yeah, exactly. You can still love them without agreeing with them. ⁓ and, and, know, it's a two way street, et cetera, et cetera. But, ⁓ yeah, that's, ⁓ you know, I don't, I don't, I don't get involved in a lot of these conversations, not to avoid conflict. I sometimes I enjoy drama. It's, it's more that I truly recognize the, the.

value that each person is coming from ⁓ and I find it interesting what they're saying and I didn't know that about that person or that party ⁓ and I will decide if it's gonna change my mind my job isn't necessarily to try and change yours ⁓ especially the people as far as family members like our family members we're all pretty well versed

If we really want to know the information, we're going to know the information. We're going to go out in there and do the research. So, ⁓ you know, I can, I can trust that each of us are making the decisions that are right for their own beliefs. And, ⁓ you know, whether I agree with it or not is not, is not necessarily my place and it certainly doesn't change my feelings for them. ⁓ but now you and I could definitely have ⁓ a conversation about different.

different political opinions much easier than, than other people. But I think that's because dad knows best and you're wise and more patient than most people out there. So why don't we wrap it up? Why don't we wrap it up with that? We learned about what Bodega the word Bodega came from and that when it comes to politics, my goodness, talk about not agreeing. anyways, when it comes to politics, we also, I get splinters up my keister.

Ross Redford (18:59)
Heh heh.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:21)
because I sit on the fence a lot. anyways, thanks for coming on and ⁓ the two dogs turned this into an argument between them ⁓ and ⁓ they seem to enjoy the arguments. So we'll have you on in again in a month and ⁓ we'll go from there. Thanks very much and I love you dad.

Ross Redford (19:27)
You're welcome, Cliff.

Okay?

Okay, love you too, bye.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:43)
Alright, bye dad.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:48)
Thanks again, Dad, for teaching me all your wisdom. And now for our keynote speaker.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:56)
⁓ I got with Dr. Heidi Wong from the Alderwood vet clinic in, guess, would you be considered a Tobacco? The West Toronto at Tobacco. I learned how to play hockey at the Pine Point arena. ⁓ there's a great tobogganing hill, right behind it. That's probably too dangerous, but, ⁓ or it's not that big. And it just seemed really big when I was a kid.

Heidi (20:03)
Yes, we're in a Tobacco.

Nice.

Hahaha

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:23)
⁓ yeah, so thanks for joining me. Everyone. Welcome back to vet life with Dr. Cliff. I wanted you on here. ⁓ once I saw that, that cute little Instagram posts that you did talking about yours and Dr. Kate's clinic, your business partner and it, it being independent and support local business and Canadian owned. And then I started thinking about it. You guys have only been open for a few months. There must've been a ton of challenges and it would.

I thought it'd be a great story. I guess tell us who you are and whatnot and let's go from there.

Heidi (20:56)
Well, so my name's Dr. Heidi Wong. I've been a veterinarian for the last 10 years. I graduated from Ontario Veterinary College in 2014. And I have to say, at the time, I never thought I would want to own a vet clinic. I thought that life is not for me. I just want to do, you know, practice good medicine and help out some pet parents. I never thought this was in the cards for me. And then my business partner, Dr. Kate Zimmerman,

She graduated in 2010, so she's got a few extra years ahead of me. And same with her, she never thought practice ownership was in her future. ⁓ But we both ended up working ⁓ at a small animal clinic not too far from here. And it was while we were there that we both decided we would love to both be practice owners. ⁓ And it's...

It's just so hard to buy a vet clinic these days just because you're competing with corporate offers. After some, I'm not going say failed attempts, but after realizing that that wasn't going to be a realistic option for us, that's when we dreamed up opening up our own clinic from scratch.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:11)
Yeah. And I mean, back in, in my day, I'm a Guelph grad as well, uh, 1998 and I bought my clinic in 2000. I bought a clinic. didn't open one and you know, it was common. You know, a single vet practice there back then would be making, you know, maybe 300, 400,000, uh, probably 500,000 in revenue, but you could buy it for about 300 grand.

⁓ so yeah, like it was, you know, you'd get it on 60 cents on the dollar, 70 cents on the dollar. If it was really well run, ⁓ you know, gold sort of a gold standard or the actual, the golden rule as a dollar per. ⁓ but even still that's, you know, that's much less than a house, let's say. ⁓ whereas now if you've got a single vet practice on average, it's, you know, it's a million revenue at least. And.

corporations are buying it for two, two and a quarter, 2.5. Like there's no way, you know, the average person can buy that. What, what made you change your mind? Like, what do you think pushed you towards ownership?

Heidi (23:20)
I think because the clinic that we both worked at before...

We were there for a long time and then we just got really, we got really invested in it. Like we were invested in all of these patients where we'd seen their journey from puppy to senior. And it's just something that's so special to be present and involved in the care of a patient. You know, they're literally like their whole life. And see in like the families too, to see, you know, the kids go from like baby or like, you know, pregnant owner to like, now they're, now they're like actual talking humans. ⁓

⁓ So we got really invested in how things went in that clinic and then ⁓ there was discussion about like, maybe partnership or ownership, things like that. ⁓ And it wasn't really until this was brought up that we were like, maybe this is something that we'd be interested in and it makes sense because we love the clients, we love the patients, we don't see ourselves going anywhere else. ⁓

Like anyone who works somewhere for a long time, we were like, like there's things that we think could be improved or like this is how we would do it if it were up to us. So I think for both of us, just, a seed was planted and once the seed was planted, it was really hard to get away from that idea.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:35)
So your clinic owner started talking to you guys about being partners and buying in essentially and that actually, I mean, could you say it backfired on this person in the sense of it didn't work out and then you said, you know what though, I think I am interested in this.

Heidi (24:51)
I don't want to say too much about it. The clinic owner we both used to work for, we love and respect her. She was like family to us. I would just say it just didn't work out the way that all of us would have hoped. I think this is sort of like...

around the time of COVID too, and then after COVID that all of this discussion started. I think the way that we, that like when the way we assess the value of a clinic changed dramatically during our negotiations. And I think that that definitely affected the outcome of the negotiation.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, no, I've talked about it before on, on the podcast. No, there's no sort of ill thoughts about a veterinarian selling to corporate. I had corporations knocking on my door four years ago and I seriously considered it. We were in negotiations. Like it was life changing money. ⁓ and there were, there were

those in my family that needed financial help and I would be able to help them out a lot easier than if I didn't sell. ⁓ It didn't work out, know, the numbers started to drop as the market corrected. And I gotta say it was a bit of a blessing. I'm still happy and loving what I'm doing as I've always done. But ⁓ yeah, the market goes up and down and, you know, good on those veterinarians who are able to... ⁓

you know, retire comfortably or at least semi-retire comfortably on probably something that they've been working on for 20 or 30 years potentially. So good on them. Now you and Dr. Kate, like obviously you'd been working together for a long time and that's quite a, I guess there's some positives and negatives about having a business partner when you're opening up a business that put a strain on any relationship, but then you've also got someone to lean on. That was quite a...

it's quite nice for both of you guys to have you there

Heidi (27:02)
for sure. We talk about this all the time. I can't imagine doing this without her. This whole process has been so extremely stressful. We finally feel like, this is kind of fun now, but up until this point, it was just so stressful. I can't imagine doing this without having someone else next to me, someone that I know and have trusted for so long.

And me personally, I of course am the queen of poor timing. I had a baby and she arrived like two weeks before our CVO accreditation date. So Kate has been especially supportive and fine with this whereas I think a lot of business partners might not be so okay with the other one randomly popping out a baby. But yeah, I'm so grateful to her for being so supportive and you

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:41)
you

Ha ha ha.

Heidi (27:58)
letting me try to be the best mom I can be while also ⁓ trying to be a business owner. So I can't imagine doing it without someone else.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:06)
Good for you guys.

And good for Kate. That's impressive for both of you guys. Yeah, I was looking at, I was going through your Instagram and I was like, wow, you guys tackled this and you tackled this as far as 50 % of your workload while pregnant. ⁓ You opened up in January, is that right? And there had to be some delays though.

Heidi (28:27)
Yes.

Oh my gosh, I can't even. So we bought this building in February 2024, but there was a tenant here and there was just a lot of things to do until we could actually have the building permits in hand and actually be able to start renovating and doing what we wanted to do. Then we had like the

The building had a lot of water damage. At one point the ceiling collapsed and there's just water pouring in and a gaping hole. There was asbestos to abate before anything else. So there is just so much to do before we could even actually start construction. And then when we started construction, we're very grateful to our contractors and our project management team. They knew

we were literally hemorrhaging money, like money that wasn't actually our money, was money we had borrowed from the bank. ⁓ So they knew like every month that we were delayed in opening was just like more tens of thousands of dollars that we would have to pay back. ⁓ So they worked as quickly as they could, but even with them working as quickly as they could, ⁓ it was about 12 weeks for the bulk of the construction to be done. And there were some delays there. I think if,

it weren't for the delays, it might have been done even like in nine or 10 weeks. So it was very light, fast once we started. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:02)
And 12 weeks is quick.

Like 12 weeks is quick. I mean, ⁓ I moved 12 years ago. I moved from the small building that I had owned and then now I rent in this sort of strip mall. And it was about 2,700 square feet that we moved into, but completely empty, you know, similar to yours. was all just sort of concrete, or at least by the time you guys, ⁓ knocked things out and, and, and got rid of all the water damage and whatnot.

I think my guys built it in about eight weeks. ⁓ but there must be something about veterinarian construction crews, like, like those who truly specialize in dentist's office, veterinarian offices that, ⁓ they're, they're like scientists themselves. They're like doctors themselves that they're, they're so organized and so, so quick. ⁓ and obviously the people you'd use must've had some experience with, with medical.

You're shaking your head? No, really.

Heidi (31:01)
No,

no. So ⁓ we had looked into some design build, like veterinary design build companies. And then I think it was just looking at it from like a cost perspective. It did seem to cost quite a bit. And I had some colleagues who had gone through the same process and they weren't super happy with the design build companies that they had gone with just because it seemed like ⁓

you know, it's the same people designing, same people building, there might not be so much consideration for, you know, making it more economical. So after pricing up some options, we had the clinic design done by Mark Hafen. So he's based out of the States. He's an architect who specializes in veterinary clinics in small spaces. So he was great. He designed something for our tiny little cozy space. It's not that tiny, but at the time it felt tiny.

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:35)
Mm-hmm.

Heidi (31:54)
But then the actual execution was done by a general contractor who has done some dental offices, but they mostly do Burger King's and fast food restaurants. This was their first veterinary clinic.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:10)
Wow, kudos to them as well.

So I mean, you guys had some delays, but in the end, there must've been some aligning stars to get this all happening. And you just had to go and get pregnant nine months beforehand. But what an exciting start to 2025. that's absolutely incredible. And your facility, I apologize, I didn't make it to the open house, but your, like the photos, your place is gorgeous.

Heidi (32:24)
You

Thank you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:40)
Absolutely

beautiful. Kind of give me a verbal tour. Like what do you got going on there? How was it put together?

Heidi (32:48)
So it's three stories and then here I will get the square footage for you, but ⁓ when you first walk in on the main floor, we have what used to be a fairly small space, but it seems really open and welcoming now. So we have our reception area when you first walk in. We chose a fairly bold accent color. So it's kind of like a crimson pink burgundy kind of color.

⁓ So we have a splash of that on the wall behind reception. We also have that accent colour for some of the benches that we have throughout the clinic, both in reception and our exam rooms. ⁓ And then our reception desk, my sister actually built it for us. So she built it out of maple and then we added a quartz countertop on top just because we figured we might as well make the front look nice.

⁓ And then as you go back, we've got three exam rooms. We're really happy we were able to fit three exam rooms in our cozy space. ⁓ And in those exam rooms, we have some non-slip flooring, the same kind of flooring you might see in a gym. ⁓ And then ⁓ not too much more in there though. We've got some benches, fold down tables. When we were designing the rooms, it was with patient comfort and client comfort in mind, but also just...

trying to make the most of the space that we had. Then as you keep going back, there's a wheelchair accessible washroom, a pharmacy, a fairly small pharmacy. And then we've got a fairly spacious downstairs outpatient treatment area. And that's where I'm at right now. So this is where we've got our urinalysis machine, microscope, most of our supplies, and a run, some cages, and an area just to...

where we're just going to be giving them a shot of Serenia or taking some blood or if there's something that we're not necessarily doing in front of the client, we're doing it here. And then the back door. Upstairs is where we have our dental x-ray, like a little dental nook, surgery room, prep area, and an x-ray room. And then the basement is where we have just like a staff break area, kitchen, an extra bathroom, and lots of storage.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:10)
Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, I wish I had done the fold down tables. I had plenty of space in my exam rooms. I they're not enormous, but I hadn't realized how often I sort of squat down or get down onto my knees to examine the animals. ⁓ You know, used to be all just the big dogs, but no, mean, even the...

the medium size and some of the smaller dogs I'll sit down like a kindergarten kid you know listening to story time and the dog comes up to me and I just do my exam there. It ends up being yeah the tables used half as much and I'd probably still keep the room the same size it is but at least you could just have a little bit more play area that sort of thing but

Yeah, that's amazing. The three exam rooms for me was a game changer. ⁓ I'd worked at a handful of clinics and there was a period I owned three clinics, two in Markham, one in Brampton. I would never recommend doing that, even with a good business partner. I didn't have a business partner, do not, I should have listened to Darren Osborne at OVMA. It's like trying to ride two bikes at once. It wasn't a lot of fun. But... ⁓

Having the three exam rooms, like one cat, one dog, and like an overflow, or if the vet's chit chatting too much, ⁓ is a real game changer. So are there anything that you wish, you know, you've only been doing this four months now, but are you kind of going, I wish we hadn't have done this flooring, or I wish we had have, you know, done something a little bit different, or so far you're pretty happy?

Heidi (36:47)
I would say in a general sense, we're quite happy. I think there were some compromises made just because of the speed of construction. For instance, we had some really bad rain the other day, like just a few days ago, and yeah, we definitely sprung a leak. There's quite a... It was like raining from the pot lights in one area, like raining out of the windows and the reception. but at the same time, it's...

once the cause is identified, we're like, well, you know, like when you're speeding through construction, there are certain compromises that are made. So, you know, while we definitely need those things to be fixed and I regret that those things happened in the first place, it's, you know, I think it comes with the territory when you're trying to get something built as fast as possible. There's going to be certain things that you don't realize are game changers until it rains like crazy and that rain comes in the clinic.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:43)
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, again, kudos to how fast you guys got this thing put together. with the delays that you had, you're just in the end, even not even financially, but emotionally, you're just bleeding ⁓ emotional energy. Just please, I need this to open. want to start seeing patients. Were you guys working elsewhere while this place was being built? All right. Beautiful.

Heidi (38:05)
Yes, so we were both welcoming both and

so Kate was in private practice. I was in a combination of private practice and the end up the OSPCA. I figured I'd do some spay neuter for a change. So it felt like we had like three different full time jobs. It was like, okay, we have to, you know, we've got our like random side jobs and then we have to deal with this, which is like almost a full time job of its own.

So it was hectic. Like I think towards the end I was sleeping maybe three or four hours a night, just juggling all of it at once.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:42)
Yeah, yeah. But again, kudos and there's gonna be a great party at the one year anniversary mark for sure. Let's talk a little bit about your clinic in the sense of I checked out your website and I love the, you had like five sort of key points about why people should come ⁓ to your vet clinic. ⁓ And you talked about the experience that both you guys had.

Heidi (38:46)
you

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:09)
that you're experienced and skilled veterinarians. ⁓ But there was one, and I'll go through each of them, but commitment to the environment. I've never, I mean, it's brilliant and it makes so much sense and it's so important to all of us, but I've never heard of a veterinarian clinic, and maybe I'm naive, really push sort of the commitment to the environment that you guys have. So let's walk through that a bit.

Heidi (39:34)
Yeah, so I have to give a lot of the credit for that to Dr. Kate just because that is something she's very passionate about both professionally and in her personal life. But yeah, they're basically as we went along with construction and deciding what equipment to buy or just like the general setup of the clinic.

Every time we made a decision, part of that decision was, okay, what's the greenest way that we can do this? How can we minimize the waste that we're creating and how can we minimize the emissions involved in this? ⁓ just some examples of some decisions we've made would be ⁓ like for anesthesia, we use oxygen concentrators just because then we don't have the truck coming every so often with the oxygen canister.

So we're hoping that that's a more environmentally friendly way to do things. This was a very expensive decision to make, but we do have heat pumps throughout the building. So we got rid of our gas furnace and now we just have heat pumps. So we're relying less on natural gas. Our hot water tank is still natural gas, but the goal is eventually to convert that to electric too. So then we don't need to use any natural gas with everything's just electric.

⁓ So we were happy about that decision, but then because there are so many delays and costs and complications involved with that decision, which I think is a lot more routine when you do it residentially, but when you do it commercially, it's a big project to do all heat pumps. So yeah, that was a bit of a painful decision to make and to stick with, but you know, now that it's done, I'm happy about it. So that's probably one of the bigger things that we've done. And then as far as waste management goes,

We actually create very little garbage garbage that goes out on the curb on garbage day. The vast majority of our medical waste, so whether that's old syringes or gloves or whatever, it goes to a company called Synergy. So they're fairly local, not too far from here. And all of those things that otherwise would have been single use items that just get wasted, they recycle them for us.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:46)
Beautiful, Yeah, I mean, there's always the awkward conversation about, you know, we put so much work into separating our garbage into the different colored bins and the different products that they're made up of. And then there's the thought that how much of this actually gets recycled through the normal municipality. ⁓ And whereas if you deal with a company like Synergy, I'll have to look into them. I've never heard of them. But if you deal with a company that specializes in that,

and that's pretty much all they do. I'm sure they're doing a much more efficient job than a municipality that has to outsource and deal with so many other things. ⁓ And then a great thing you guys talked about, mean, very important that vet clinics talk about fear-free, and you know, we're normally fear-free certified and talking about fear-free regarding the animals, but you guys have this shock-free pricing.

which is excellent because yeah, people get surprised. ⁓

Heidi (42:53)
Yeah, so that was really important to me. I mean, I think we've all had that experience where you go to a dentist or some other service that your insurance doesn't cover and then you walk out of it and you're like, wait a second, it was $600. I didn't know it was gonna be that much. So it was something that was really important to me. So basically it's just we're committed to showing people estimates ahead of time. And even if it's not a big formal,

thing that they have to sign, even if it's just reviewing the cost of their next guard or something before they pick it up. We just want to make sure they know what their bill is before they go up front and pay for it. Because then if they, they're like, you know what, like that's just more than I can handle right now, then we can, you know, we want to provide contextualized care. Then we can, you know, adjust as needed, you know, sort of our priorities after discussing with them.

So that's something that was really important to me to not just say that we're gonna do it, but like commit to doing it, like make a promise to do it. And I think too, it relieves some of the pressure on some of the folks working upfront because the client's going up there, they already know what the bill's gonna be or they have a rough idea how much the bill's going to be. So it's not like you're relying on them to give them this bad news. They're already prepared and that way the...

know, the heavy discussion, the heavy work involved in that discussion is already done by the time they go up front and they're leaving with a much more positive impression because the last thing that happened was not something bad necessarily.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:21)
Yeah, I would imagine your front desk team really appreciates that. If there's going to be, like it's the reality, know, budgets, people have budgets they have to stick to. You know, you wanna have that conversation in the privacy of an exam room or some other room instead of out front and, you know, hopefully your business is busy enough that there's other clients standing around so you don't wanna be having that conversation with other people that aren't involved.

⁓ You know, it's just nice to have that conversation with the technician or with the veterinarian or who have it. ⁓ I mean, obviously you guys on the website, you talked about being independent owned, which we sort of discussed. ⁓ And then the team approach. And what I liked that you said about the team approach is most people would assume, you know, we rely on our technicians and we're teams with our

customer service representatives, our front desk staff, et cetera, et cetera, and we're one big happy family sort of thing. But no, you guys are talking about the pet owners also are part of the team.

Heidi (45:27)
Yeah, so that's something where Kate and I just sort of unconsciously, we already practice the same way. And I think this is why we're both fairly compatible with each other when we're, you know, by owning the clinic together and working together. ⁓ I think it's very rare, unless it's a crazy emergency that we're like, you have to do this, this and this, we're just gonna do this.

almost always there's some sort of conversation where we again try to provide you know contextualized care where we're like okay you've got some options here's option a does that work no you know you can't bait the dog okay option b so we just sort of go through all of those options with the with the clients so really they're the ones who are deciding the the finer points of their game plan and i feel like there's better

client satisfaction because they chose. And then at the end of the day, because they chose and I feel confident that they understood their choices and what their options were when they were choosing. If things don't go well, ⁓ I feel like they're more involved because they're more involved in that decision making, they can then get back to us and say, actually, maybe we should have explored this option B or option A rather than option C.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:42)
Yeah, and in the long run, I mean, I've owned my clinic 25 years now. And I loved what you said at the beginning about becoming sort of bonded with the pets, with your patients and with your clients and seeing them, seeing the children grow up. ⁓ You you haven't been in the industry long enough yet, but soon you'll see children, you you knew when they were born, you knew them when they were born, and then they're bringing in their own pets when they've moved out.

That will happen eventually. ⁓ I have quite a few clients that drive a fair distance and some of are local, some of them drive a fair distance. And I remember going to their kindergarten class and giving a conversation in pet safety and whatnot. it's a great, it pays dividends, this team approach.

Heidi (47:12)
you ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:39)
and having these conversations with the owners, because one, they trust you. They learn to trust you if they don't already know you. ⁓ But it does such a great job in strengthening their ability to be proactive for caring for their own pets and being involved in their pets' care. I don't know much about cars, so when I go and get my car fixed, I trust the guy, but I'm not involved at all.

in the conversation and there's not a whole lot you can do other than routine maintenance for caring for your car. But when it comes to sort of having that conversation that you're having with these pet owners, it will make them better pet owners as well. ⁓ And it'll make them better clients and it'll make you a better veterinarian in the long run. ⁓ It's a great, it can be time consuming at times, but it's a great.

It's a great long-term investment ⁓ into the health of your practice, the health of your patients, the health of the relationship you have with your clients. ⁓ And it's one of the reasons why I still love what I'm doing after 27 years is, yes, I love the animals. They're amazing. But all of the animals I knew 27 years ago were gone. But I have some clients that I've known for

over 25 years, have some that ended up coincidentally coming, moving up to Markham when they lived in Toronto, when I used to work in Toronto. So I've known them for longer than my clinic was open. ⁓ And it's, it warms my heart, ⁓ you know, and they appreciate us, which I think is, which I think is important. It's a tough gig that we have. So it's important to sort of grab on to any sort of lifeline that we can find. ⁓

As we slowly wrap this up, ⁓ mean, we talked about opening up new versus buying one that's already existent. It's really not feasible these days, I think, for most people. What advice? I mean, you've only been doing this for four months, but you're quite experienced now in the challenges of opening a clinic. So for those vet students, I have a lot of vet students that listen to this podcast and maybe future owners.

What advice do you have for them if they find themselves thinking about starting up their own practice?

Heidi (50:13)
I would say ⁓ get some advice. So the first thing we did was we talked to Darren Osborne at the OVMA and then the other group that's been amazing at giving us advice has been the folks at Vet Circle. So I think for someone who's considering it and they don't know where to start, those are the two places that I would go to. ⁓

they've both been invaluable resources to us. ⁓

both Vet Circle and Darren Osborne at the OVMA or whoever at the OVMA happens to be giving advice for this. Just because there's so much, there's so many little things that you don't think about, like you don't know what numbers you're supposed to be aiming for, you don't know how feasible it is to open in the neighbourhood that you're opening and you don't even know which things to think about, you just know how to practice medicine. ⁓ So I'd say those are the two resources we found most helpful when deciding whether to even proceed with this endeavour.

Dr. Cliff Redford (51:13)
Yeah, yeah. And I would also add when the time comes and I know the teammates, some of the teammates that you have, but surround yourself with brilliant ⁓ non-veterinarians and they will make your job a whole lot easier and a whole lot more fun for sure. ⁓ Let's do one last sort of pitch to your clients or to your future clients who are going to be listening this. ⁓ Why should they come and check out your animal hospital?

Heidi (51:43)
I think everyone should come check us out. Even if you love your regular vet, we still would love to meet your furry family members. So just come on in. You can come for a tour. Let us give your pet some cookies, some pets. Just come and see what we're all about, where we treat every furry family member as if they were our own pet.

and where we are independently owned and operated. you know, every decision that we're making, it's one that we would make for ourselves too.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:14)
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful. And you guys are open Sundays, which I love.

Heidi (52:18)
yeah, Open Sundays with online

booking.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:25)
velocity there for a second. That's okay. I'm clean that up. But it went blank for a second. was just like, Oh, is she open Sundays? No, you guys are open Sundays, but closed Fridays and Saturdays. That's how you manage it.

Heidi (52:32)
Yes.

Yes, but hopefully not for too long.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:41)
Yeah, yeah, you gotta go slow. mean, you're still five days a week and ⁓ your Sundays must be, you get some pretty crazy calls.

Heidi (52:51)
The States are definitely our busiest day of the week. We do have a lot of same-day appointment type things happening too. ⁓ That's one of the few days of the week where we're currently busy enough to have two doctors working at the same time writing appointments. ⁓ Yeah, whereas the rest of the time, we're not quite there yet where we can both run appointments at the same time. There might just be like one of us at a time.

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:06)
You're both running appointments on Sundays.

Yeah. no, that's fair though. That's fine. I mean, it's more than just seeing patients. You guys got to run your business as well though. So there's work behind the scenes that it's not as sexy as taking care of the puppies and kittens, but it's just as important, that's for sure.

Heidi (53:26)
Yes.

Yeah, that I would say ⁓ it's definitely been a learning curve, learning how to run a business. We're like, QuickBooks, how do we use QuickBooks? No idea. ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:41)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I had a lot of secret weapons when I opened up my clinic. ⁓ And again, I bought one that was already ⁓ running and it wasn't, it wasn't run well. The guy had admitted he decided he didn't want to be in clinical practice and he never really should have been in clinical practice. He has a very successful, he's very successful now working at the airport taking care of animals that are traveling. But ⁓ my father's an accountant, my sister's an accountant.

I come from a family of entrepreneurs and my wife at the time, ⁓ Kathy, was a business ⁓ admin, honors graduate from Laurier and her father owned businesses and et cetera, et cetera. So I had the best of both worlds in that I could own a practice and I didn't have to worry about ⁓ anything like Excel or payroll or taxes or.

I just took care of my patients and it worked very, well. Later on we found that I was no longer married, so I all of a sudden had to quickly learn, but she did great in helping me build my practice up, so she was my secret weapon for sure. So hopefully my kids will hear this and then they'll talk to their mother and say, hey, you were saying good things about her. She's a very, very good business partner and great mom for sure, 100%.

Heidi (55:03)
You

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:10)
⁓ And then so where can people find you both social media give us your address your website the whole bit

Heidi (55:18)
So everyone can learn more about us at alderwoodvet.ca. That's our website. They can also follow us on Instagram at Alderwood Vet. Otherwise we're located at 320 Browns Line, Toronto, Ontario, just off the 427. So like 427 all the way to the end to Browns Line, drive to the end of Browns Line, and that's where we are.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:40)
Perfect. Are you guys close to the lake?

Heidi (55:43)
We're fairly close actually. just on the other side of Lakeshore Boulevard West. you might make a bit of a far walk, but it's a quick drive.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:45)
Really close.

⁓ I wonder if you're.

you might be close to some of my surfing spots i do some surfing on lake ontario if the wind is ⁓ heavy enough and and in the right direction

Heidi (56:01)
Oh yeah, Marie

Curtis Park that's really close to us. Yeah, I see people windsurfing there. Oh, so you're a windsurfer. Oh!

Dr. Cliff Redford (56:06)
Yeah.

Yeah, No, no, no, regular surfer.

So there is regular surfing. People are listening to the podcast going, geez, Cliff, you always talk about this. There is regular surfing like Calabunga surfing on Lake Ontario. Three or four days ago, the winds were really, really heavy the Wednesday evening. Well, the waves were six feet.

Heidi (56:18)
you

Dr. Cliff Redford (56:36)
It has to come ideally from the east, so all the way along from Kingston. ⁓ Or if it's strong enough, if it comes from Buffalo, the waves are big enough. The one dilemma is the only time it's really consistently surfable waves is in the wintertime. ⁓ So we are surfing with these giant wetsuits and mittens and booties and we look like fat penguins out there.

⁓ giant penguins and it's fun ⁓ you know it's messy and the waves are kind of what we call mushy ⁓ but you can you can get up and do some tricks and and have a good time so it's and I know exactly where you are there's definitely some some hidden hidden gems of surf spots there so maybe one day I'll come by and say hi in my wetsuit before I head out to the water on a Sunday afternoon ⁓

Heidi (57:29)
for sure. Yeah, come by.

Dr. Cliff Redford (57:34)
Dr. Heidi, I loved having you here and for everyone listening, you're out in the west end of Toronto, definitely check out Alderwood. I'll put all that stuff on the info thing on our main page of this episode and I appreciate it. Thanks for joining me.

Heidi (57:50)
Yeah,

thanks for having us.