Megan Leslie - President and CEO WWF Canada

In this episode of VetLife, Dr. Cliff Redford and Sarah Lo introduce a new segment called "Highs and Lows with Sarah Lo." Sarah is a psychotherapist practicing in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA), and during this segment, they discuss how to overcome the fear of failure.
Sarah can be contacted here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/therapists/sarah-lo-etobicoke-on/1269356

Dr. Cliff then interviews Megan Leslie, the President and CEO of WWF Canada. They discuss the importance of wildlife conservation, the role of indigenous communities in environmental protection, and personal stories that highlight the connection between mental health and nature. Megan shares simple steps everyone can take to contribute to environmental protection, emphasizing the significance of habitat restoration and community involvement.

Megan requested we include the following information, and of course, we are happy to oblige:

If listeners are interested in learning more about the Southern Resident Killer Whales, they can actually send a letter to our new government in support of protections for these whales:

https://wwf.ca/demand-action-to-protect-remaining-southern-resident-killer-whales/

Planting a native plant re:grow

https://regrow.wwf.ca/

The newsletters I mentioned:

Birds Canada https://www.birdscanada.org/

Wildlife Conservation Society Canada https://wcscanada.org/

And of course WWF https://wwf.ca/signup-for-fieldnotes-newsletter/

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:00)

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of VetLife with Dr. Cliff. In this episode, our main guest is Megan, the president and CEO of the Canadian chapter of WWF, the World Wildlife Fund. ⁓ It was a great interview. It was so inspiring and educational. She brought back some wonderful memories that we talked about, memories of mine. And when you listen to it, stay to the end or fast forward, that's fine.

She has three great simple steps that everyone can do ⁓ to help make a difference in protecting species around the world as well as ⁓ protecting the environment. So I know you're gonna like it. Now, before that, we have the first episode, I guess, first segment of Highs and Lows with Sarah Lowe. So stay tuned for that as well. And thanks for joining us.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:03)

All right. All

right, everyone, welcome back to the podcast. We have a new segment, hopefully a regular segment that I have titled the highs and lows with Sarah Lowe. My friend Sarah, everyone say hi, say hi, Sarah. I think everyone is doing well and after listening to you once a month, approximately, they'll be doing better.

Sarah (01:24)

Hello, hope everyone's doing well.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:32)

so why don't we, since this is the first segment, why don't you tell everyone who you are and why I reached out to you and why they should care about what you have to say.

Sarah (01:45)

Sure. Okay, so I am Sarah Lowe, registered psychotherapist ⁓ and also wellness coach. ⁓ In my psychotherapy practice, I work in private practice, work mostly with clientele and like adults and adolescent clientele. ⁓ In my private practice, I mostly focus on kind of these unhealthy relationship dynamics.

know, aspects of like coercive control, manipulation, some boundary things, emotional abuse, stuff like that. ⁓ As well as like emotion regulation stuff and kind of just helping people improve and reflect on and develop greater self-awareness and greater self-compassion. ⁓ In addition, and kind of separately, I work with people that have suffered traumatic brain injuries from motor vehicle accidents.

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:38)

Wow, that's very impressive. Very nice. ⁓ And I mean, all jokes aside, I wanted to do this segment because, you know, this is a stressful, ⁓ stressful world and a stressful gig being a veterinarian. ⁓ And this is vet life. ⁓ And Lord knows that most veterinarians, myself included, could use with some therapy. ⁓ And definitely, I think most of us could use with ⁓ help in dealing with relationships. I think we all.

Sarah (02:39)

Hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:07)

You know, we check out, we go to the doctor to have a wounds checked out and sore spots and we check our cholesterol. But you know, there's so many of us still that do not formally take care of our mental health. So, ⁓ so it's very important to what you do for sure. ⁓ when I had asked you about doing this and, I should say to everybody, so I know Sarah because her and her husband own Toronto boxing academy. ⁓ so she's a kick ass boxer as well.

Sarah (03:19)

Mm-hmm. Great.

Bye.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:36)

⁓ and coach. ⁓

And I think I've talked about you once or twice on the podcast how I think you might've been the very first person I sparred against. And I didn't realize it was you, because you're wearing all the gear. ⁓ And all I knew was who's this person who keeps punching me in the face? can't, I would shoot the jab out and you would catch me with a counter jab before I would, because I guess I was lazy. But anyways, ⁓ it's not about that.

Sarah (03:42)

No.

.

Thanks.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:02)

But so when I reached out to you and we started talking about doing this, you mentioned, I'll be honest, how nervous you were to do this. And I said, great, we're going to talk about fear. I think that's a great topic. We're going to have so many good topics over the next months as we do this. But, you know, regarding fear, you know, specifically, I like to talk about the fear of challenges and the fear of risk. And I guess.

Sarah (04:09)

Yes.

Uh-huh.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:32)

coming with that, fear of failure, ⁓ opening a business, pursuing your dreams, stepping into the boxing ring, as a middle-aged person, let's say, getting it off your bucket list. These are all things that are quite frightening. ⁓ And how is it for people that wanna take these steps? Are there some recommendations, some simple recommendations that you could give regarding how to sort of embrace that fear or overcome it?

Sarah (04:35)

Uh-huh.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:01)

and accept those challenges.

Sarah (05:03)

Mm-hmm. I mean, I think the simple recommendation is force yourself to do it. The problem is it's not so easy for people to do that, right? ⁓ I think a big part of it is the fear of failure, especially as we, like you said, we come into this middle age. I know for sure for me and that first boxing match, that was what it was. I had come from a long background of athletics and a lot of success in previous.

sports. And so that was terrifying for me. I actually remember, I can remember distinctly warming up for that match and not wanting to go out there. I didn't like the fact that it was quiet. Everybody was watching. They were specifically focused in on me. But I think you're right. I think it was the failure part of it. Am I going to be good at this? Am I going to be good enough at this? Am I going to embarrass myself? Am I going to get hurt? All of these things, right?

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:00)

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I remember, you know, so as you know, and, most of the listeners know when I got into boxing and when I did that first real match at the Brampton cup, um, after the friendly at, at TBA, um, I was going in there with years, hundreds of judo matches. And you could say judo is a little different. You're not getting punched, but it's still combat and you still have a chance of being hurt.

Sarah (06:12)

Mm-hmm.

Cheers.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:28)

And it's still one-on-one and everybody's watching. ⁓ and there was never a time in judo that I was not afraid. And you know, Brandon, who my son, who went very, very high in judo, ⁓ fought on the, with the provincial team and, competed in Europe a few times. he used to talk about how he would just hope that he would get injured or get sick the morning of.

Sarah (06:56)

you

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:58)

⁓ or maybe the other person's going to get injured in the fight before them, anything to just not have to do it. ⁓ and then you get in there and it all washes away and you forget about it. But something that, that my wife had said to me, Vaso, when I was getting ready for the match is she said, she was just so proud of me that I was doing it. Like she was, she said, so many people can't do this and it's not only boxing. It's again, opening up a business.

Sarah (07:02)

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:27)

⁓ you know, trying to get into vet school, trying to compete in swimming, which is one of the sports you were, you were heavily involved in, ⁓ any of those challenges. So many people. Aren't willing to take that chance and people are just so proud of you just for trying. and now when it comes to boxing, especially amateur masters boxing with giant, giant mitts and, or giant gloves and, and, and giant head gear and short, short rounds.

Failure is just, you just lose. Like that's pretty much it. You know, the chance of you getting hurt is pretty, pretty small. And, and, and really, even if you get a little injury, you know, big deal, we heal. but when it comes to sort of failure or, or, being worried about failure with starting a business, that's a little different because it could affect your family, ⁓ your financial security. ⁓ so it's a greater risk. ⁓

Sarah (08:08)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:24)

But it's also something that you can prepare much more for. And, know, you don't have someone across the ring trying to stop you directly. There may be competitive businesses, but, um, yeah, you just sort of have to do it. And one of the things that helped with me is, and this is not only for boxing and opening up a business and things like that is the baby steps of challenging myself or going after something that made me nervous.

Sarah (08:33)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:54)

You know, when I was younger, ⁓ and, taking these baby steps, you know, ⁓ so if you're going to open up a business, you know, maybe, ⁓ do part-time contract work where you sort of are self-employed, right? ⁓ and, and get your savings in order and sort of look at the worst case scenario, that sort of thing. But now how do you, you know, how would you recommend somebody deal with failure?

once it happens. and, and is there a way to sort of accept that defeat doesn't mean you're a quote unquote loser or you shouldn't try it again. Um, you know, are there, are there, are there tricks or what could you tell someone who just says, you know, I, just screwed up on this. My business isn't doing very well. I think I have to shut it down, you know, and I just, feel, I feel horrible. I feel worthless. Let's say.

Sarah (09:44)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I think that, and this is what I probably do with a lot of my clients, because I get a lot of clients that they are experiencing this, these very limiting beliefs that they're not good enough. And then when even minimal failures come, it's very hard to process and get over. It is about acceptance. It is about accepting that failure comes with taking risks. Failure is a part of life and without it, and we don't have to frame it as failure every single time.

Right? It's a learning experience. We can't have success without the growth of failure, because if we started off and we were perfect at everything, then we wouldn't know where we could improve or where we could go. Right? So it is really that there is growth in the failure, and this is how we overcome those fears of going into it and the challenge of it happening to us. And that's how usually I approach my clients.

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:42)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, it's

a, yeah. And it's a, it's a cliche and it's said often, and it's a cliche because it's true that, you know, failure is your greatest opportunity to learn. ⁓ as long as you're willing to learn, you know, and as long as you're not too hard on yourself and you sort of open up your mind and open up your heart to accepting that, okay, mistakes were made. It's rarely nobody's.

Sarah (10:59)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:10)

fault, if you want to call it that there's always an opportunity to improve, always an opportunity to learn from it. ⁓ and so yeah, fault isn't the right word. It's, it's, it's rarely just a fluke, you know, there's always sort of something you can learn from it then, and then take that time off and decide if you want to give it another shot. ⁓ but we all, I think we all become better, ⁓ as people, whether it's career or personal, ⁓ after a failure, once we, you know, maybe

Sarah (11:28)

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Okay.

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:40)

drown our sorrows with our buddies and, and, you know, have a night out or eat a pound of ice cream or whatever. ⁓ but definitely thinking back about the mistakes that you made. And if I want to go forward, how can I make sure these mistakes don't happen again? ⁓ definitely. ⁓ but go ahead.

Sarah (11:46)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think.

no, I was going to say, think an interesting part of it is if you don't recognize it as failure, like you're saying, it's harder to grow. You do have to be able to recognize it as it is right in order to have that learning opportunity. And if people can't recognize about understanding why, right? Why can't they recognize it? What is underlying in them in their sort of beliefs system?

that they can't recognize that something was partially contributing to them, not just some extenuating circumstance.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:32)

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good point is, is, you know, ⁓ accepting responsibility, know, that accepting responsibility, even if you tried your best, even if, ⁓ you know, it's not like you made a decision to do something immoral or incorrect, but just accepting responsibility that on this given day or this given month or year, I was not good enough, but that doesn't mean I'm not good enough. That just means at that moment. ⁓ and, and.

Sarah (12:39)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:02)

I can get better and I can, you know, potentially pursue this again. ⁓ or maybe it opens doors, you know, to another pathway, but, yeah, that's, that's a good point is, is I thought you're going to go the other way. thought you were going to say, you know, ⁓ you know, seeing it as, as not a failure. ⁓ but no, it's, it's, gotta be honest with yourself and say, ⁓ I lost the match, or I didn't do this. I didn't train hard enough. didn't.

You know, look at my books closely enough and, and, and control costs or control spending or, or what have you. ⁓ there's always a little bit more effort or smarter work that we can do, I think. so as we wrap this up, you have a new service at TBA that's a health and wellness. Quickly tell me about that.

Sarah (13:36)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so kind of meshing the two worlds together, right? There's so much research behind health and fitness for mental health. And so really honing in on kind of the holistic picture of it. So, you know, doing some one-on-one coaching about just like stress and anxiety and some of these things that we're talking about, overcoming fears and challenges and seeing where people's barriers are to the success that they want in their health and fitness.

and then adding in kind of, you know, through the boxing gym, some, the fitness portion of it, and some psycho education around nutrition and balanced eating and stuff.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:28)

Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah, it makes sense. mean, you're, you're, ⁓ you're in a better head space if you're, you know, sort of physically fit, or if at least you're challenging yourself physically, ⁓ it releases endorphins, it increases dopamine, it reduces all the stress enzymes that your body produces. You feel better about yourself. ⁓ and also you are what you eat. makes a difference. Nutrition makes a difference. ⁓ you know, those two seconds of.

Sarah (14:37)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:58)

Taste bud joy doesn't necessarily help your inner self when it comes to how you feel later when your body crashes or whatnot. So it's all connected. So it's a great, it's a good idea. It's something I hadn't really thought about. I mean, it's probably very, very unique. So everyone's got to check out Toronto Boxing Academy. ⁓ Until we see you next time on Vet Life with Dr. Cliff, how can people reach out to you if they want to talk to you?

Sarah (15:06)

Mm-hmm.

So you can actually just search my name, Sarah Lowe, psychotherapy. You'll come to my Psychology Today profile if you're looking for that aspect of it and then Toronto Boxing Academy if you'd like to look further into the wellness coaching.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:40)

Beautiful. Excellent. Thanks for coming on.

Sarah (15:42)

Of course, thank you.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:46)

And now my interview with Megan from WWF Canada.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:50)

Thanks for coming. This is exciting.

Megan (15:52)

It's my absolute pleasure. Thanks for, I'm really glad that we met and I'm also really glad that I now am subscribed to your podcast. I'm excited to listen to Bodega Cats.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:57)

Yeah, definitely.

That

was a good one. My dad was just on, I do a segment with my father called dad knows best. ⁓ cause he would often send me corrections like, or, or not necessarily corrections, but like I may say, I wonder how big Lake Ontario is. And then he'll, he'll send me an email later on with like all the dimensions and all the data. ⁓ and, ⁓ so I just had it, he was just on the episode that, posted a day or two ago.

Megan (16:11)

Yeah.

Amazing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:31)

And he was talking about Bodega Cats might've been his favorite, one of his favorite episodes ⁓ with Dan.

Megan (16:34)

yeah. You know, I didn't,

I mean, I'm not from New York. So ⁓ I didn't even know about Bodega Cats until I guess Twitter. Twitter introduced me to Bodega Cats and I was like, ⁓ I mean, I know there are some problems with some of them not being taken care of the way they should. ⁓ But for the ones that have nice happy lives sleeping on bags of chips and eating mice. ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:48)

Yeah.

That's right.

Megan (17:03)

Hey, looks like a great life.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:04)

Well, that's the goal of, that's the job of Dan from Bodega Cats is he's setting up a, a support system to get these cats regularly cared for. And, you know, it's great. And most of the Bodega owners are a hundred percent into it. The problem is, is the cats are illegal because the, the Bodega's serve food. And so you can't have an animal where you're serving food.

Megan (17:29)

yeah, of course. Of course.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:33)

And so he goes on to describe, and I won't give out too much because you're going to listen to it and still other listeners, but he goes on to describe how, you know, a lot of bodega owners roll the dice and take the chance to get in the occasional fine because they, love these cats and these cats have a job and they're part of the team and they're very well respected and people come in and, and, and pet these cats and it brings them such joy.

Megan (17:53)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:00)

And then they have this walking tour of New York where you can go around. think it's ⁓ in Brooklyn. I got to go back and listen to it again. But you learn about, you know, these, these spectacular cats of the history of New York and at the same time learn about the city. So what a brilliant idea. can't wait. I'm going to go to New York. I mean, I go regularly. I go every couple of years. ⁓ I'm going to go next time, like soon, just to do that tour.

Megan (18:19)

No kidding.

Yeah, no kidding. I think it's probably gonna be sold out most of the time. I mean, who wouldn't wanna do that?

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:36)

They are, they are sold out, but Dan promised me he would, he would find the thing is it's a walking tour. So in the end, you know, you just, just be a little quiet and, know, and it ends in a cat cafe. Like, on, come on. ⁓ there you go. ⁓ all right. Well, welcome to the podcast. ⁓ Megan, why don't you tell everybody who you are and, and why I got you on here.

Megan (18:39)

Nice, nice.

why you got me on here. ⁓ I don't know that I know the answer to that one, but my name is Megan Leslie and I am president and CEO of the World Wildlife Fund Canada, also known as WWF, not known as WWE. So not wrestling, but wildlife.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:18)

That's,

that's right. You guys WWF took them to court and said, that's our, that's our name.

Megan (19:28)

Yeah, it's interesting though, the wrestling reference is only America and Canada. Elsewhere in the world, I mean we're a global network, we're a global brand and elsewhere in the world, if I crack the wrestling joke, people just sort of stare at me blankly.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:43)

And is it because WWE wasn't popular worldwide back then? Like when did, when did they have to switch their name? It had to be in the late eighties.

Megan (19:54)

I don't think I know off the top of my head. I'd have to look it up. Must have been late 80s or 90s, but WWF has existed as a global network for over 60 years. Here in Canada, we're coming up on our 60th anniversary soon. So we've existed for a long time and wrestling came after.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:05)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, I think internationally outside of North America, they won't get your joke because I bet you, I bet you WWE, although it was WWF back then, even internationally, people just didn't, they didn't really get, it wasn't as popular. Wasn't as popular internationally, probably.

Megan (20:20)

Not at all. Not at all.

Yeah, I think I need

to come up though, if your listeners have any ideas, I need to come up with a good like wildlife wrestling name, just to like extend the joke further like Megan the wildlife enforcer or something ridiculous. Yes. Wildlife warrior or something like that. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:45)

The animal warrior, climate warrior.

There you go. I have, ⁓ I compete in amateur masters boxing and, and I'm waiting for a time to eventually do like a really well done charity event where they, they hype it up and they have, you know, they have, ⁓ ring names and the whole bit. And my, being a veterinarian in Greek, the word veterinarian is Katina cross, which directly translates as beasts.

Megan (20:57)

wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:22)

Doctor. So I want my ring name to be and there's got to be a proper pause. It's got to be Cliff the Beast Doctor Redford.

Megan (21:31)

That is so good. I love that. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:34)

So yeah, you could, you could be the climate warrior, the nature warrior, something like that.

So, mean, WWF, what exactly, I'll be honest, I was a little naive exactly what WWF does. I mean, I know you guys focus on species conservation and climate ⁓ protection. How, what do you guys do?

Megan (21:55)

Yeah, thanks for asking that. think if I could sum it up, I mean, what we really care about is wildlife is our middle name ⁓ and what wildlife need. Well, they need habitat. So we work on habitat. We work on making sure that there is habitat to support wildlife. And sometimes that means protecting habitat that is already supporting wildlife. Sometimes it means restoring habitat that we've degraded through our industrial activities or

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:03)

Mm.

Megan (22:23)

or urban activities. So protecting, restoring habitat. And then we kind of all learned in school that trees store carbon, right? That they almost kind of quote unquote, breathe in carbon dioxide and then breathe out oxygen. I mean, that's basically true, but it's not just trees. It's all the green things, all the brown things. So all the different plants do that. And then when they actually store carbon in their leaves and their roots,

When they die, that carbon then goes into the soil. And so healthy soil is rich, rich, rich with carbon. So when we look at habitat and we wanna protect the habitat that supports wildlife, restore the habitat that could support wildlife, we look at carbon at the same time. Is there carbon in the landscape that needs protection because it's like in significant amounts, for example? Is there carbon in the landscape that we can restore?

because we've degraded this habitat and the soil isn't healthy and the root systems aren't there. So anytime we work on carbon, we're working on habitat. Anytime we work on habitat, we work on carbon. that's how we, know, that's our way of tackling climate change. We're not, a wildlife organization. We're not gonna work on electric cars, you know, it's, we're about nature.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:40)

And then you guys, you know, worldwide work with different governments and, and encourage them, maybe pressure them to make certain changes. Like, here in Canada, what are some of the, you know, things that you're extra proud of that you put a gold star on and put on your, your fridge as a, as an indication of your successes?

Megan (24:02)

my gosh. we are, I'll start by saying at WWF Canada, the protection work that we do, the restoration work that we do, we have a commitment to make as much of that indigenous led. So how do we support indigenous communities with all that incredible indigenous ecological knowledge, understanding of the ecosystems? If there's an indigenous community, First Nations, Métis or Inuit.

working on conservation, protection or restoration. How do we support that? What resources do we have? Money or communications or mapping abilities or technical skills. What do we have that we can say, here, here, let us support this work. So in doing that, we've had a number of achievements with indigenous communities. One in particular, I know that you have an interest in, cause you've spent some time up in Nunavut in Kalawit.

we have gotten designation or protection for a place called the last ice area. Also it's known as Tuvaiautuk in Inuktitut. The last ice area, there is a place in the Arctic where it is ice 365, 12 months of the year, even in the dead of summer, it is ice. And that is incredibly important for ice dependent species like polar bear, narwhal, beluga, but it's also

just unbelievably important for algae under the ice that form the basis of the entire Arctic food web. And getting protection for that area with, you know, supporting Inuit leaders who were demanding protection for that area was incredibly important. ⁓ This is a place that will be a refuge for ice dependent species in the future because we have a warming climate. This is gonna be the last place with ice on earth. So understanding it, protecting it,

making sure that we don't have icebreakers running through it, know, incredibly important. ⁓ I'm so, so, so proud that we were able to support something like that. I mean, it is of global significance. So those kinds of wins are, you know, I'm sure listeners are, they can go to dark places. I can go to dark places sometimes too, because there's some bad stuff happening out there. There's some bad news on environment, but.

At WWF Canada, we're working on solutions and I have to say those wins are just like so fueling, so motivating. And that's a recent win that we're really, really proud of.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:41)

was prepared or I thought I was prepared and then quite overwhelmed in such a good way by the love that the Inuit people have for their planet or their space on, I don't wanna call it our planet, on let's say Mother Earth. And they've got that balance between...

They hunt obviously, but they understand the need for hunting, not only for themselves, but also sort of it's like this balance in the ecosystem. And then the need for their area to be healthy. And so like, what were the risks for this ice shelf, this area? What were the risks? You you mentioned ice breakers. ⁓ Canada is always looking to sort of populate the North and put a foothold in the North.

As far as military protection and is there, is there issues with oil collection up there? Like what is the, what is the problem?

Megan (27:43)

Yeah, so I think if people ever want to think about an area, an ecosystem, a region, and think about what is the problem, you your question, think about what disrupts and what disruption means, what the impact of disruption can be on wildlife and how we can minimize or mitigate disruption. So in the Arctic, you know, if we send an icebreaker through an area that is usually covered in ice, what does that

disruption of the ice mean for polar bears. So you know in the winter polar bears go out on the ice and they wait by ⁓ breathing holes for seals. This is how they hunt and they wait and they wait and they wait. And eventually a seal comes up and that's how they survive. If you have disrupted the ice with an icebreaker,

there are no breathing holes. There's little pockets of holes everywhere. And the polar bear doesn't even know where to go. Like where will the seal appear? The Arctic is a big place. So just thinking about that disruption and what the consequences of that disruption are. If I can pivot to Caribou in the North, so barren ground Caribou, the, so when,

Female caribous give birth. They migrate to these areas, we call them calving grounds, and they really need ⁓ quiet, they need what they're used to, which is great expanses of Arctic tundra to feed so that they can produce milk. And the cows, well, the female caribou, they can actually get disrupted pretty easily by noise, by exploration, by...

by testing that kind of thing. And if they get disrupted in their foraging, they stop producing milk. Sometimes like if there's an industrial operation happening with testing, they're doing some, making some disruption through its minor explosions or something, the calves, the mothers will actually abandon their calves. And it disrupts their ability to raise their young and keep the herd strong.

So if you think about, how do we mitigate that disruption? Does that mean like, we can't ever go in this area? Mitigation could mean, how about a temporary ban in certain months? How about just making sure for these three months when they're raising their young that they have that peace and quiet, and then we can do the testing at other times or we can build the road at another time. Or let's look at, I mean, that herd.

it's an area that it occupies is moving because of climate change. So let's also be flexible about that. Like maybe this year they're here, maybe next year they've moved a little bit to the West. So understanding where the caribou are and thinking about how do we mitigate that disruption is really important when we're thinking about protecting wildlife and allowing them to flourish.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:45)

Do you find the parties involved on the other side, those building the roads or breaking the ice are sensitive to this? Like once they learn about it, they go, my God, I didn't know. Yes, of course.

Megan (30:55)

Sometimes,

sometimes. So number one, industry, if you regulate them, they're gonna follow the regulations. Like sometimes we've had industry say, just regulate us, we'll do it. Sometimes there is voluntary. ⁓ And I have to admit as a human being, I don't love the voluntary measures because they're voluntary. come on, let's regulate. But let me tell you about in the Salish Sea off the coast of BC,

actually in Vancouver Harbor, there is a voluntary program for ships to slow down because when ships are in that harbor, there's incredible underwater noise. That noise disrupts the ability of some marine life to hunt and survive. So if we look at the Southern Resident Killer Whales, there are only 73 of them left. They use echolocation to communicate with each other, to keep their young close, to find true love, to hunt.

And if it's so noisy underwater that they kind of click and squeak, it doesn't work as well and they're not able to hunt. And those 73 Southern Resident Killer whales are extreme risk of extinction. So there's a program with the port of Vancouver for a voluntary slowdown. And I'll admit, I was like, no dice on voluntary. Like that's baloney. But there is incredible compliance. Those shipping companies are following

the voluntary measures and we've had extraordinary success. So they can work, know, to your question, how are folks on the other side or industry responding? Sometimes they fight us. Sometimes they just didn't know and are like, thank you for telling us this. Yeah, of course we can slow down in Vancouver Harbor, of course. And I think it's industry by industry, it's sector by sector. So we're trying to build those bridges as much as we can.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:54)

Beautiful. How did you get into this? Like, you a, were you a, were you a animal warrior when you were a child? Like.

Megan (33:05)

I was like an outdoorsy kid. grew up in Northern Ontario and I grew up with a family that hunted and had appreciation for wildlife in the hunt and appreciation for healthy wildlife. I actually have a political background. I used to be a member of parliament and when I was a member of parliament, I ⁓ was the opposition critic for environment.

And I'll admit, like when I was the environment critic, I was really caught up in, not caught up, I don't wanna be dismissive, but I was really focused on climate change. I was focused on like parts per million and two degrees above 1990 levels, like all the technical stuff. And I have to admit, I didn't, I had a misguided image of what the conservation movement was like, and it was outdated. I kind of thought that conservation was about like making a park.

putting up a fence, you know? And when I got out of politics, I was introduced to some of the work that WWF Canada was doing around fisheries specifically. And I saw that what they, at the time, we now, were doing was, it wasn't about like, don't fish in this area. It was more, hey, how do we do this so that there are fish for the fishermen, fish for indigenous communities relying on those fisheries?

fish for the whales and seabirds. Like how do we tackle this ecosystem problem so that there's justice? You know, not just putting up a fence and saying no, but justice for people as well. And that people can see themselves in those conservation measures and say those conservation measures are for me, for me and the well-being of my community. And so I got introduced to that at WWF Canada and it really opened my eyes to

of working in conservation. And then when I started learning more about, you know, how we can tackle climate change with nature, ⁓ you know, that's awesome. If we are restoring for habitat, we're restoring for climate, amazing. ⁓ That if we are restoring for habitat, we're also making communities more resilient to floods and fires. wow. Like, there's just all these different winds. And that...

We can actually use conservation or see conservation as a tool for reconciliation with Indigenous peoples in Canada, with First Nations, Inuit and Métis. That we can support the work that they are doing in conservation, that we can reinforce their rights and their sovereignty through conservation is just like, ⁓ it's all I could ask for.

in a career, let me tell you, it's pretty special.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:05)

Yeah, you've found your calling. Yeah.

Megan (36:07)

Yeah,

like I said earlier, it feels really good to be on this side, not just the side of good, not just a moral victory, but on the side of solutions.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:17)

Instead of just fight, fight, fight and potentially causing conflict, but actually working with people and recognizing that there is that, not only room to work with, with people, but that need. that's how it's going to succeed in the longterm.

Megan (36:20)

RAAA!

Yeah

Yeah, exactly. You know, we're working with Katesi First Nation in British Columbia, and Katesi believe that ⁓ salmon are their ancestors, salmon are family. And you know that there's a salmon crisis on the West Coast. Part of what's going on is, if you can believe it, unsustainable forestry practices. How does that impact salmon? Well, remember, these trees, these forests, they have roots.

And those roots serve lots of purposes, including holding the earth in place. And if you just go into a forest and cut everything down, there is nothing holding the land together. And that means we end up with all kinds of landslides. ⁓ Also with forestry practices, unsustainable ones, ⁓ roads can be built across the streams or cut off a marshy area from the free flowing water. That is salmon spawning ground.

So working with KC, their knowledge about the ecosystem, their history in that landscape, their territory, saying, okay, this used to be a stream. I know it doesn't look like a stream anymore, but it used to be a stream. How do we reconnect it? So, you know, sometimes this work that we're doing, it's about legislation. Sometimes it's about getting out the backhoe, ⁓ digging out that stream again, where the landslide has happened, putting the plants and tree seedlings along the bank so it doesn't happen again. So we build up that root system.

And so we restored a small stream with Katesy ⁓ a couple of years ago. And I'm not saying this just to make it sound good. The next year, the salmon came back, not in huge numbers, right? This is the very first step, but there were salmon in that stream. And I wasn't there when it happened, but the reports back of like the emotion of seeing that solution take.

root of seeing it pay off, of having family, having the salmon come back. ⁓ Yeah, I get all like misty-eyed even just thinking about it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:37)

Beautiful.

Yeah. You're bringing back this memory that I hadn't thought about in a long time. The summer I turned 17, I was a junior forest ranger up, uh, just outside of Conora. Um, and I was a city boy that, that headed up there, right? Um, it was a wonderful summer, the hardest work I had ever done. I was this chubby little kid who came back weighing the same, but with like six inches off my waist.

Megan (38:45)

yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:05)

My family didn't recognize me. And one of the jobs we did, you know, there's a lot of, ⁓ cutting down trees for, for a tree planting area that hadn't succeeded or cutting down some of the trees to leave room for the healthy ones to grow. ⁓ we became very, very skilled at using these, clearing axes called Sandviks. and, and then other times we'd plant trees and whatnot, but we did this three day sort of.

where we went out and slept in canvas tents. It was far enough away from our work camp where there was this large river that previously there had been a forest fire on either side of it, destroyed all the trees and then all of the soil and silt and ash had gone into the river and it completely ⁓ suffocated the, I don't know if it was salmon, but it was definitely the fish eggs.

And so our job for these three days was to wade into this water. And first with chainsaws and Sandviks clear out all the branches and whatnot. And, this water was murky and you couldn't see the bottom. There's really no current going through it because of all of these different areas that had been obstructed. And then we took fire hoses hooked up to these diesel run, ⁓ generators and we basically just

blasted the ground in this river to push all the debris ⁓ towards the lake, I guess, downriver. And by the end of the three days, this still standing murky river turned into this fast flowing to the point where we were done a few hours earlier than we anticipated. So we decided to get paid by the Ministry of Natural Resources to just slide down this river on our butts and basically go white water.

you know, butt rafting kind of thing. ⁓ and that was my first, like, I saw the work that we did. And, and, and although we we didn't stick around to see what happened next year, ⁓ we knew, I knew enough about science and ecology and biology that, okay, this is now a healthy, ⁓ creek or river. And, and it was, it was, yeah, it was amazing. And it was so nice to see the effects and, and, ⁓ and I hadn't decided to be a veterinarian. I knew it was on my list.

Megan (41:20)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:32)

But it was that trip up north and working with ⁓ ecologists and the Ministry of Natural Resources that got me sort of interested in the grand scheme of things and interested in animal welfare. ⁓ Yeah, that's amazing. So you're a member of parliament in the East Coast, right? Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. ⁓ Yeah, I gotta go up there and visit sometime.

Megan (41:44)

That's awesome.

Yeah, I was for Halifax.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:56)

You're a, another memory I got to connect you with, ⁓ Dr. Andrew Ross, who's based out of Jamaica. ⁓ he, was in Jamaica volunteering. It'll be nine years in September. And he started and sort of, dare I say revolutionized or really did a good job in rebuilding a coral, ⁓ in the Aracabessa Bay. And the reason I thought about it is you start talking about.

working with the indigenous population and, and recognizing that, you know, we're not just going to say stop hunting. We're going to instead build up this practice so that everybody's happy. And there's this balance. Well, in Aracabessa Bay, had been over fished. ⁓ and they, you know, was indigenous people, indigenous to Jamaica where it had been 10 generations plus of fishermen. ⁓ and so these, these people didn't want to stop fishing.

This was their livelihood, but they were, they were killing the fish population. And Andrew and his team ended up hiring a bunch of local fishermen, teaching them how to plant coral. And they got the entire community to agree in this one bay, no more fishing for two years. They built up the coral, which expanded and then improved the environment for fish. And then all the fish came back.

And now they have this doubles or this team where, okay, now you can fish and look how great the fishing is now. And we've also got these jobs, for other people to build up coral in other places. And now he's gone, you know, to other places in the West Indies. And, ⁓ it's this great again, sort of teamwork with the indigenous population, ⁓ saying if, if we can protect the environment. That will, and rebuild the environment.

that will protect and rebuild the wildlife, which will benefit you and your children and your ancestors and the world. ⁓ it was a great, it was another great learning experience that I got to share with my son as he went down and planted, ⁓ planted a few coral themselves. it's nice. is nice as you say, and it's, and it's easy to get misty eyed and, and, and, you know, you're making a difference. ⁓ not only right then and there, but you know,

for a long time through inspiration and also just the effects that or the efforts that you're doing. Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Megan (44:23)

Yeah, there's,

sometimes people will say, yeah, but you know, I've always been told nature heals and it can heal itself. It can, nature is incredible. ⁓ It'll be around a lot longer than us humans. But there are just so many assaults on it right now that, and by humans, that in some cases it takes humans to actually intervene.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:44)

Mm-hmm.

Megan (44:53)

I think about areas in interior BC where there have been forest fires. Forest fires are natural, but with climate change and with the way we're managing our forests, they're not rich and diverse. We're managing them for wood, for lumber, you know? ⁓ Those fires are so hot and so fast that they sear the land.

This isn't your typical, ⁓ know, back in the day with the natural forest fire and regeneration, there's no regeneration happening. The land is seared. So that's because of humans. So as humans, you know, we're in there supporting the Shibuatmukulu restoration and stewardship society and replanting, that landscape needs human intervention.

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:44)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Let's shift to a different topic. I hear your one true love is your cat. I promised I would ask you about it.

Megan (45:55)

You can't see him and I know we're on a podcast, but you and I are on video. He's just a little lump of black here behind me having a nap. His name is Fletcher. He's the love of my life. He's a rescue kitty from the pound. And ⁓ when we went to visit him, you know how the pound will put like their personality profiles up so you can figure out in advance, like, you know, what kind of cat you're getting into. We went to go visit him and he was in rough shape.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:02)

Okay, there you go.

no.

Megan (46:25)

and we were in this little room and it says like Fletcher on the door and there's like a little picture of him and we were in this room, me and my spouse and this woman walks by and she looks in the window and we heard her say, looks like Fletcher's seen better days. And my spouse, he was like, we're taking him.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:40)

Ha ha ha.

Megan (46:47)

So that's how we found ⁓ my one true love, the love of my life, Little Fletcher.

Dr. Cliff Redford (46:50)

⁓ You're going

to, you're going to find out one day that that woman who said that was a plant. There's a, there's a great, ⁓ don't, I don't watch a lot of sort of typical series on TV, fictional series, but I did catch the first episode of, Will Trent, I think it's called. He's a detective in New Orleans and all the posters he's carrying around this little Chihuahua.

Megan (46:55)

Yeah, probably. It doesn't matter. It worked. It worked.

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:17)

Which is why I want to, I'm like, who is this Chihuahua? Why is this Chihuahua in this detective cop show? And it's him, he comes across this Chihuahua at a crime scene and he brings it to the shelter and the two or three young women that are behind the desk, except in this Chihuahua. And then they go through this clearly scripted, I mean, the whole thing is scripted, clearly scripted guilt trip about this dog.

that that he ends up naming Betty and of course he he leaves with Betty under his arm. So so yeah we yeah yeah she was definitely a plant and and and they they they know which personality profiles catch people's eyes. Yeah yeah they figure it out they figure it out exactly it's like the next step from having the Sarah McLaughlin song.

Megan (47:54)

So she was definitely a plant, you're right.

Yeah.

Pretty much.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:15)

eyes of an

angel with that with the poor puppy dog on the on the screen. I'd be rescuing every single thing. If I could.

Megan (48:20)

Well, Fletcher had

seen better days, so clearly they knew that like, well, these two are looking for a hard case.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:27)

Beautiful, beautiful. How long has he been with you?

Megan (48:30)

Just three years, yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:32)

nice, nice. got a long time to go. That's he looks like he's very comfortable and, he's definitely now seeing the best of days. ⁓ he's living the life. He's living the life. I love it. I love it. So as we wrap up, ⁓ I did want to get, I wanted to get some advice from you as, and as for, for me and for the listeners on two, three, four simple steps we can do, ⁓ to help with environmental protection.

Megan (48:34)

Yeah, he's a sweet.

my gosh, yeah, he has a very good life for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:00)

⁓ wildlife conservation, something that we can do that we is easy and we know will will will make a difference.

Megan (49:06)

Okay,

I got three for your listeners and they are very simple. Number one, go outside. Just like go outside. Put it your calendar that you go for a walk around the block at lunchtime. On the weekend, challenge yourself to 10 minutes, 15 minutes, a half hour, two hours. Just get outside because we protect what we love.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:09)

you

Hmm.

Megan (49:33)

And if you are not, they're like, go outside and touch grass. But like, honestly, if you're not touching grass, you're not seeing the trees, if you're not enjoying the buzz of the pollinators, then you're not connected. So just go outside, that's number one. Number two, when you look outside, remember that this, no matter where you are, even if you're in the dead center of a city, this was habitat, right? Like where our houses are was habitat.

Where are malls and roads? What's habitat? So some of it is, you know, we're eating it up a little bit and think about, well, how can I bring some of that habitat back? It could start with one native plant. So your yard, your balcony, pollinators can go up seven stories, ⁓ your kid's school, your church yard, the yard around your mosque, your coffee shop. Look at where you could plant one native plant. One plant is not going to save the world.

But if you plant a plant and your neighbor plants a plant and that other neighbor plants a plant and you harvest those seeds and you plant maybe another one the next year, all of a sudden we're getting a critical mass of native plants. And what do they do? They support the pollinators and then the bird eats the pollinator. This is how nature works. And the bird scatters the seeds that creates a little bush area for the rabbits and so on and so on, right? Like it's like a Disney movie, but this is how it actually works. So just think about,

one native plant that you could plant. I'll direct people to our website if I may. If you go to regrow, like reduce, reuse, recycle, this is regrow, ⁓ www.ca or just pop regrow into your search engine. We can give you tips on what those native plants are, how to support them, and you can actually log in what you've planted and you can see what your neighbors have done and realize that this can be a national movement of individuals.

restoring habitat one plant at a time. So regrow, number one, get outside. Number two, regrow. Number three, I would say get on an email list. And I know we don't want more email, but find a conservation organization that you are drawn to. It could be www.wwf.ca or it might be the Wildlife Conservation Society. It might be Birds Canada.

and sign up for their email. And if you don't want to get all those emails, like just delete them, it's okay, you can delete stuff. But every once in a while you'll open one and there might be an action where Birds Canada is like, oh my God, this thing is happening and we need you to sign this letter or we need you to raise your voice or you'll get these alerts on when to take action. That is incredibly important. And then those organizations like WWF or Wildlife Conservation Society, when they're doing that important advocacy work, they can say, hey,

We got 20,000 people behind us. It's not just us. So signing up for those email lists, becoming members of something, it seems like a small act, but you're a part of something a lot bigger. So get outside in nature, plant a native plant, and sign up for something. Those are my three simple steps. And that actually can change the world.

Dr. Cliff Redford (52:49)

It's amazing. And that is definitely easy. I will put that regrow link on ⁓ the little summary of this episode. And Megan, it's been a real pleasure. We're going to have to have you on here again for sure.

Megan (52:55)

thanks.

Well, thanks. The pleasure is all mine. I appreciate it.