Jordan Trowbridge

In this episode, Dr. Cliff Redford and Jordan Trowbridge discuss the challenges and joys of wildlife conservation and animal rescue. They explore the impact of invasive species, the role of hunters in conservation efforts, and the importance of education and community involvement in protecting wildlife. Personal stories and experiences highlight the emotional connection to animals and the need for logical solutions to environmental issues. The conversation emphasizes the significance of listening to experts and instilling a love for nature in future generations.

Be sure to follow Jordan on Instagram at @jordantro

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com and on Twitter at @drcliff_vet
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:00)

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of bet life with me, Dr. Cliff. I'm very excited about this episode. ⁓ but I want to give you guys a little, I want to, I want to make a, what's the word, what's the word where you tell the truth. I want to make confession. That's it. can you tell I'm not a Catholic boy? I wanted to make a confession. I was, I was thinking about canceling this podcast. like not this one particular episode, but.

not continuing with this podcast. I was gonna give it a couple of weeks just to kind of finish it off. ⁓ yeah, it's just, you know, I was a little bummed. You know, I still am a little bit bummed about the film. It's getting a lot of love from the people who have seen it, but you know, across the world, we're still trying to sell it to the US and to places in Europe and the UK.

⁓ but I'll be honest, it's, ⁓ prognosis is not great. ⁓ so there was that and, there's not a lot of work this podcast, but it's, it's a bit of work. ⁓ and, ⁓ frankly, it hasn't grown the way I, the way I anticipated it. now I do so much appreciate the people who listen regularly. ⁓ I don't just mean my family. Hi dad. Hi mom. ⁓ that might be it. Who knows? Occasionally my kids.

But I really appreciate you guys that do listen. ⁓ But as I said, just, sometimes you try things and it just doesn't work out and you start to have some other things you can focus on. And I do have a lot of ⁓ focusing regarding my book that I'm gonna have to deal with soon, ⁓ et cetera, et cetera.

⁓ But, you know, I had made the decision. It was one decision that I didn't jump to. I usually jump to decisions incredibly quickly without really researching them. I go on gut instinct. Let's talk about that. But I guess I didn't have the gut instinct yet to give this thing a quit. ⁓ I'm not a quitter, but you know, just to pass it up. ⁓ And then the last couple of days, I...

heard from a couple of people and just sort of made these random connections with these amazing wildlife rescuers, ⁓ these amazing conservationists, these amazing veterinarians around the world, these amazing actors. ⁓ And it just sort of, it just made me feel nice and warm and fuzzy inside.

You know, some of them had seen my film because I, you know, after talking to them, I sent them a private link because a lot of them weren't in Canada. Got some in the UK and a few in the US, including Mr. Jordan, who's joining us ⁓ today. He's American, so he's not ⁓ the Jordan that a lot of people probably don't want to hear from here in Canada. It's not Jordan Peterson. ⁓ I don't...

I would probably have, I'd have him on my podcast. I'd talk to him, but I don't know what we would talk about. I'm not interested in talking about politics with him. ⁓ But, he's not, he's not ⁓ a animal activist. He's not, I don't know how animals play a part in his world. So I'm not really interested. Anyways, I am rambling. ⁓ I ended up having these literally just even the last 24 hours talking to a few people and informally.

planning to have them on the podcast. And it just reminded me that the main reason I'm doing this is because it's fun and it's fun for me. ⁓ And it's okay to be a little bit selfish and, you know, I want to share this podcast with people and I love that you guys listen. Thank you very, very much. ⁓ But if I'm not having fun, then you're not going to have fun. If I don't find the,

interesting and if I don't want to talk to them then you're not certainly gonna want to listen to me talk to them. So it just reminded me. So I guess ⁓ you know prognosis is pretty good as far as this is concerned ⁓ and I just have to not worry about the stats and just kind of focus on the experiences.

So with that, stick around. We got this great guy named Jordan, who's a conservationist and animal rescuer and snake and reptile guy out of, no surprise, out of Florida. So stay tuned. It's going be a great episode.

you doing man?

Jordan Trowbridge (05:01)

Doing great, pleasure to finally meet you, sir.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:03)

Yeah,

yeah, it's nice to talk. Holy geez. I got to start it off, man. Your mustache and your style, man, your hair, it makes us so jealous. I love it.

Jordan Trowbridge (05:06)

Absolutely.

⁓

Thank you, thank you, I appreciate it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:15)

During the COVID

day, I had like a raccoon attached to my face. My beard was so big, but ⁓ I couldn't rock that.

Jordan Trowbridge (05:23)

I tried the beard, doesn't grow for me, get the neck beard, you know, so I can do the mustache, that's about it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:32)

Yeah, man, no, no, it looks good. Looks good. it's come back, that's for sure. The Magnum PI style.

Jordan Trowbridge (05:36)

I appreciate it.

definitely get

some comments about it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:42)

Yeah, yeah, I love it. ⁓ got to know we are running good. Good. ⁓ Listen, so we'll start. Yeah, we just start right. We just we just go for it, man. I kind of clean it up a bit afterwards, but I really don't edit anything out and we can just talk about whatever. But I'm really excited about your your wildlife conservation thoughts. And I do have to be honest. So

Jordan Trowbridge (05:48)

Right into it, cool.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:04)

When you first came on my radar, you were the snake handler for Natalya Nightheart's photo shoot. For people who don't know, she's a good Canadian girl who's part of the Heart Foundation family and is a WWE Diva wrestler and a good friend of mine. But I just thought you're a guy that had snakes that had snakes for photo shoots.

Nah man, you are hardcore into this animal rescuing, so why don't you tell everybody what you do and what makes you tick.

Jordan Trowbridge (06:37)

Yeah, so first off, ⁓ getting to hang out with Ellie and Natalie Hart was absolutely amazing. They were great people. They loved animals. ⁓ I think that was her first time doing a snake shoot, and she was a little nervous, but she was very excited about it. She was wonderful. And Ellie, mom was just a pure, both of them, but Ellie, her mom was a pure.

animal lover just right away. Just wanted to hold the snakes, completely comfortable. My snake actually had to poop and as she noticed this she could read the animal. She was like, I think something's going on and it pooped and you know, that happens but they took care of it. yeah, so I'm not into the business of really doing that. That was kind of a one-off gig.

All my animals are really rescues or unwanted pets that people have just needed a place to dump and I've been that resource for them. And so, you know, it started off in college when I was studying zoology. A girl got in trouble with a bunny on campus and she couldn't have it. I was on campus too, which was funny, but she knew that I was the animal guy. So was like, you know what? I'll take the bunny in.

got a lot of heat for it, but that was my first animal rescue. I just, after that, I just kept taking in animals that needed a home and I've collected around 30 or so now, not including all the chickens and ducks that I've brought to my dad's house. But ⁓ it's just been a passion of mine for my entire life. I just love animals. I love nature. I love wildlife.

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:06)

Wow.

What's the range of animals that you have? mean, are they mostly reptilian?

Jordan Trowbridge (08:23)

Mostly reptilian and that's just because of the space the money the time I would take in dogs out I would take in really anything if I had the availability but you know you got to do what you can and you got to you got to know your limits, you know Absolutely

Dr. Cliff Redford (08:39)

Yeah, yeah.

And the cold-blooded animals need to be warmed up a little bit with some TLC too, right? There can always be more dog rescues. There can always be more cat and bunny rescues. But the reality is there's really not many that are rescuing snakes. Yeah, and people...

Jordan Trowbridge (08:57)

Not a ton. And the issue

is people in Florida, they'll dump them in the Everglades if they can't find a resource, you know? And that ends up hurting people like me who eventually want to own some property, own some land, and get some cool animals when the time is right. But the people who let them go, they're kind of ruining it for the rest of us.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:22)

Yeah, cause people won't be as open minded as I will in that they'll see you and just say, this is some weird snake guy. Yeah. And we, you know, he doesn't need the land. He's just, he's not rescuing these animals or worrying about conservation. just, he just thinks it's cool to have snakes. Yeah. Yeah. Which obviously is not the case. I remember there was a

Jordan Trowbridge (09:31)

Yes.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:45)

A memory I have, and my father listens to this podcast religiously, Hey dad, he's going to, he's going to probably then message me and go, remember that story. And, ⁓ I, I was lucky that all of my aunts and grandparents and cousins were all in the Toronto area. And I remember being, I was probably eight years old, nine years old and we're visiting my aunt, ⁓ Beth in Toronto and some somehow.

We were told that the guy down the street has two either alligators or crocodiles in his house. And I was like, all right, let's check it out. Right? Like I didn't know I was going to be a veterinarian. I just had a fascination for animals. And I'm sure my memory is very much clouded. ⁓ but I do remember going down into this guy's basement and he was this, this giant of a man too heavy sitting on this recliner chair with this old TV.

And beside them was this concrete like enclosure pool thing with a bit of water and two gators or crocodiles. And I mean, they were probably six, seven feet. You know, I probably, to me, they look like they're 10 feet, but they were big enough. like the entire basement was all humid and mold everywhere. And I was young enough, but, but

Jordan Trowbridge (10:55)

Wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:12)

I was still old enough to realize this isn't right. Like this is not, this is not, this is not right at all. So yeah, there's a lot of people like that, unfortunately still to this day. ⁓ And you know, they get these animals and then as, as you said, they, they realized they can't keep them or they don't want them or they're not as cooler, as exciting as they thought. ⁓ And then they just dump them.

Jordan Trowbridge (11:15)

Now.

Yup.

Yep, yep. Yeah, it's interesting. You can get the alligators and the crocodiles and the caiman up north, especially in America. I'm not sure how Canada works, but people get them at a small size and then they get huge. They don't know what to do with them. There are places that I think they buy them and then they process them for the leather eventually. But it's...

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:56)

Yeah. There's very

few places that you can legally purchase, uh, caimans here. Um, and again, I don't know much about them, but they would be really tiny and they would be kept in a, in a, in a aquarium type of situation. And then are they like turtles that they grow sort of based on the size of their environment?

Jordan Trowbridge (12:11)

Yes, exactly.

not at all and and i think that's kind of a myth in in the way that they're there they're getting messed up morphologically they're staying too small like it's a turtle that's supposed to get large and it's in a small tank that's that's not right either so i get

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:34)

Even,

here, red-eared sliders are hard to purchase at pet stores. There, you know, there's the risk of salmonella and whether it's, it's a real risk or not. ⁓ I mean, people are allowed to eat raw meat. So, ⁓ you know, it's so, so there's this risk with salmonella. So a lot of municipalities across Canada have, have bylawed the sale of them. It's not illegal to have them, but then I mean,

Jordan Trowbridge (12:50)

Exactly.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:02)

I used to have red eared sliders when I was in university and we ended up finding another vet student when, when my wife and I were getting married and she was going to have kids and et cetera, et but I mean, people end up dumping them in, ⁓ in the rivers and the lakes and while they can survive our winter, ⁓ they're not supposed to be here. and they're invasive species, so they cause a lot of problems, but.

Jordan Trowbridge (13:21)

Yup.

Nope.

I think it's the same thing in Florida. think actually the red eared sliders are on the not allowed list in Florida because the same thing, people get them and then eventually they think, it's just a turtle, it's fine to release it into the water and no, it's not. Florida has so many invasive species, you know, and that's one thing I really... Soda Canadian, yes, and Canadian.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:48)

especially Canadians in the wintertime. No, no, I'm saying the

Canadians are the invasive species. We come down and we...

Jordan Trowbridge (13:54)

Yeah, but they're good people. It's fine. Come

on down and enjoy life. Get some warm weather. You know, it's cold up there, Yeah, but that's a big thing for me. The invasive species because you know, think a lot of invasive species get the spotlight when there are other worse invasive species and the number one worst thing is invasive cats. And I always tell people this with, know, keep your cat inside because they're killing

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:01)

It can be cold up here. Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (14:24)

Billions of animals billions. Yeah, we're gonna lose our bird populations our small mammal populations all these things are due to cats, but they seem to have this protection because people like them, know, so people like to throw the reptiles under the bus and I get it, know, but it is a shame because there's so many

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:25)

Billions with a B. Yes. Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (14:49)

really damaging invasive species when reptiles take the brunt of they're bad, they shouldn't be here. There's way worse things and things that need the spotlight in Florida. It's not even always the animals, there's plants. I don't know what the situation's like in Canada, but we have some incredibly invasive plants in Florida that honestly we're having problems dealing with. We're spraying chemicals in the waterways to try to deal with them, leading to algae blooms.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:18)

Mm-hmm.

Jordan Trowbridge (15:19)

It's just a tough situation, but you always hear about the Burmese pythons, right? I think it's a sensational thing. Big scary snake. They are bad. They are really damaging the native populations of the mammals and the birds. It seems to me people don't think they have predators. They do. The big birds that we have, the herons, the owls, they'll eat the baby pythons.

Turtles will eat the baby pythons, gators will eat the baby pythons, even probably raccoons would dig up python nests and eat them. So nature is good at balancing itself out, they are a major issue, but there's way worse things than the Burmese pythons. The troops of invasive cats that I find in my exploration of Florida are just mind-blowing to me. And I think the trap-neuter kill, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard...

when you neuter a cat and then release it back into the wild, I've read some things that when they go back to their little group, the other females will sense the pheromone change and then kick it into hyperdrive and start creating more babies. Have you heard of something like that?

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:34)

Yeah, I've never heard of it. So I'm going to assume that's false. ⁓ Female cats will, unless they have like an ovarian cystic disorder and when they do, they can't properly mate anyways or can't properly breed. ⁓ They can go through the actions of mating, but it's not going to do much. Cats will have two litters a year at most. ⁓ And even though they are what are called

obligate ovulates. So a female cat's in heat, maybe she's got 10 follicles on her ovaries, which can turn into 10 kittens. She mates with a tom, she'll only drop like six or seven eggs. And then his sperm will impregnate those eggs, ⁓ then or fertilize those eggs. And then if she breeds again, which she may in the next 12 hours or so, she'll drop another

two or three eggs. So you can actually have one litter with multiple fathers in the one litter, but they do not, you know, they don't really that I know of they don't increase their their number of eggs. I've heard the coyotes will do that. Like if there's a missing coyote, I'll be honest, I heard it on Rogan. But he was talking to he was he was talking to a wildlife guy.

Jordan Trowbridge (17:50)

Yeah, something like that, right? You can't trust all the things you hear.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:53)

He was talking to a wildlife guy who was a coyote expert. said, ⁓ yeah, they'll recognize if a couple of coyotes are missing ⁓ and it will cause a breeding surge. Which is a big, I worry about, a lot of my listeners are here in Toronto and recently there was a pair of coyotes in a small sort of.

Jordan Trowbridge (18:06)

rights.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:17)

green area down by the lake, down by Lake Ontario. And these coyotes were attacking dogs and it killed a few dogs and whatnot. And it was because people were feeding them, right? They were feeding them. They were taking photos, like they were giving them an opportunity. And then they said, Hey, there's also these little Chihuahuas here. ⁓ they ended up shooting the city, got some experts together. No one asked me, no one asked the wildlife place that I work with, which is

Jordan Trowbridge (18:24)

dang.

Yes, it's always that, yep.

Exactly.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:46)

arguably the best wildlife rehabber in all of Canada and they're just an hour north of Toronto. But they ended up shooting these two coyotes and now my thought is, well, is that really gonna work or is just more gonna come into the area, right? Like we need to fix the stupid people. But I mean, as far as cats, so I had not realized, I mean, I knew for decades, I've been a vet 27 years, I knew that cats were assassins out in the wild.

Jordan Trowbridge (19:00)

Exactly.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:13)

But as far as their invasive sort of nature, I was naive in thinking, well, I mean, are they invasive? And yeah, no, I mean, it makes sense. They're, they're come, they come from sort of Egypt and the desert area. And then nine years ago, my first volunteer trip was to Jamaica and we did a bunch of filming and I'll send you the, I'll send you the crappy YouTube videos that I did, but they're, they're decent. ⁓

Jordan Trowbridge (19:25)

Yup, yup.

Yes, please.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:42)

Although I was working with the SPCA and doing with these different rescue work, we had two situations where I was kind of going and learning about wildlife conservation. One was we ⁓ repelled down into St. Clair caves and hiked into this cave, which was amazing, right? And we were looking for the greater funnel eared bat, which is like the size of a mouse.

Now this cave has, they estimated 25,000 bats, but only 500 of them were this greater funnel eared bat. ⁓ then naturally we didn't find any of those species, but the, the entire bat population was dying off and some of them were dying due to, ⁓ white nose syndrome, which is a fungal, ⁓ fungal infection of the respiratory system. And they literally look like they got like white paste in their nose.

Jordan Trowbridge (20:37)

Thanks.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:37)

⁓

and that's just, you know, they think it's from the Europeans, like people, like we would carry it on our shoes and whatnot. And it's just as, as the world became more global, you know, these funguses would spread, but there was also signs of cats. There were giant. Like piles of bones, the size of, know, the biggest turtle you could think of, let's say talking to a reptile guy. ⁓ the biggest, like

Jordan Trowbridge (21:03)

Big turtle.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:06)

You know, like three or four feet. That's not the biggest turtle, three or four feet in diameter and two feet high of bat bones. Basically this feeding table. And there was like claw marks on the, on the cave walls where the cats were scratching their things. So these cats were killing off bats. ⁓ so they were a huge problem. And then the other thing was there's, ⁓ and again, if you ever go to Jamaica, I'll hook you up with these guys.

Jordan Trowbridge (21:19)

Yep.

Yes. Yes.

Wonderful.

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:36)

The,

the, they did a, ⁓ there's a place up on Hellshire Hills. We called it the dragons of Hellshire Hills and Hellshire Hills is this ⁓ sanctuary in Jamaica where they're protecting the, ⁓ greater Jamaican iguana. And it's the largest, I guess it's either the largest land animal or the largest, ⁓ reptile on Jamaica or in Jamaica. And.

Jordan Trowbridge (22:04)

Cyclura

something yes beautiful

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:06)

Yeah, I'm not

sure. And in the sixties, they thought it was extinct. ⁓ and it wasn't until like the mid nineties that some guy was up, boar hunting up in hell, Shire Hills with his dogs. He saw a monster. He shot it, realized it wasn't a boar, brought it down to the zoo and everyone went, Holy shit. This is a, this is a Jamaican iguana. Where did you find this thing? So they ended up.

Jordan Trowbridge (22:10)

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:32)

quarantining off the area and they have this amazing thing called the Head Start program. And they're building up the population. Well, guess what's killing me killing the iguanas, the cats, the cats and there's this one there's this one thing I kind of got it on video, but it doesn't it doesn't work with any of the YouTube things. So it's like hidden. And we're walking down and these are like a veterinarian, my son, I got a future vet, a technician, and then this film crew and this one guy that we need that his nickname was wicked.

Jordan Trowbridge (22:37)

Yes. Good.

The cat. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:02)

because that's all he kept saying. would just say, wicked. This Jamaican guy who lived up like in a tent and took care of these iguanas. And we saw this little cat running around and he tried to catch it and he didn't. But he admitted to us, if I had caught it and I'm coming back looking for it, I'm going to kill it. And I have to. Like this is they are killing this species. And then, know, years later, I went and did some work in Panama.

with the Bocas del Toro turtle conservation group. And they asked me to come down and do a cat and dog spay neuter program because the cats and dogs were digging up the turtles and killing the leatherheads. It was the leatherbacks and the hawksbill. Yeah, is it leatherback or leatherhead? It's leatherback. Leatherhead or the football players? Yeah, Leatherheads are the football players from the 50s. Okay.

Jordan Trowbridge (23:47)

Yeah.

Leatherback, hawksbill, and then green sea turtles, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:56)

Um, so yeah, like it, dawned on me over and over and I had to say, okay, I get it. I would never kill this cat, but I understand why you need to. So if you do, I'm going to turn away.

Jordan Trowbridge (24:09)

And that's one of the hardest things, especially for me, because you probably feel the same way and I watch your documentary. Animals are so precious and killing them is just hard to do, It breaks my heart. I kill the invasive Cuban tree frogs on occasion because they're wiping out our native tree frog populations. And you have to. They're voracious breeders. They out-compete. They eat literally everything they can put in their mouth.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:18)

They're amazing.

Mm.

Jordan Trowbridge (24:38)

and

they're bigger than the green tree frogs and our native tree frogs. It just breaks my heart to kill these animals, but it's something we gotta do, unfortunately, especially with some of these that are just killing way too many things. And Jamaica especially, that's an island. I've read all the islands that have cat populations, their native wildlife is being decimated. Decimate, yup.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:55)

Hmm.

Decimated, decimated.

Yeah, and it's colonialism. know, it was the British coming down and they had the cats on their ships to get rid of the rats and the pests, and then they just released them. And the vast majority of cats in North America, in the Caribbean, in South America, Central America, like if you just take the population of cats, most of them are feral. Most of them are not pets.

Jordan Trowbridge (25:05)

Yep.

Yep.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:31)

⁓

but even the pets go outside and cause a lot of problems and they're like cats outside or a danger to people. ⁓ you know, toxoplasmosis, it's not a problem here in Canada, but, down where you are and, and in Texas, like, it's a big issue. ⁓ for those listening, it's a parasite that's in their urine. It makes, ⁓ mice go crazy. ⁓ and it's especially dangerous for pregnant women. It will cause abortions, but then even just your average cat.

Jordan Trowbridge (25:34)

Exactly.

Yes. yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:00)

using your kids sandbox or your garden as a litter. I mean, that's you're going to get worms. That's that's a problem. You know, your kid's going to get worms and it can cause some serious health ⁓ health like lifelong health issues. So keep your get your pet spayed and neutered. Keep them inside.

Jordan Trowbridge (26:06)

Yup, yup.

Keep them inside.

love cats. Just please keep them inside. That's all. Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:22)

Keep them inside, please. Yeah,

it's a rough situation. Yeah, it's a tough one. So I mean, again, let's talk briefly about Rogan. He talks about the anacondas or the big snakes in the Florida Everglades killing off like, Burmese, okay, killing off like 80 % of the small and medium mammals. Like, is that true?

Jordan Trowbridge (26:40)

⁓ Burmese pythons, Burmese pythons, yes.

Yes, yes, that

is the, that is what they're saying, the scientists, and it's most likely true. They are constricted to really South Florida. They're slowly moving north. I think they found them maybe as far up as... I don't know, what was the far, not too far, honestly, and they really can't go that far because they don't have the cold tolerance. They are...

Definitely sensationalized. They're definitely here. They're definitely causing problems. I go looking for them all the time. They are hard to find The Everglades is vast. It is incredibly difficult to traverse ⁓ Unless you have a boat and then even then to just find things in there is like finding a needle in the haystack Most people find them on the roads

or shine them at night on the edge of the roads, on the levees. So we really don't know the total numbers. ⁓ The scientists have found, have come up with some good methods to find them. They'll put radio transmitters on big females and release them back into the wild. And during breeding season, the big females will attract a bunch of males. So what they'll do is they'll put these transmitters on there. They'll...

send them out and then breeding season they go find them pick up the transmission and then they'll find all kinds of males and other ones all around them so they form these like breeding bowls almost other people are doing great things i don't know if you've heard of python cowboy he's a guy down here he's you know that's some old florida stuff like he's just a hunter you know he's hunting them he's got dogs that are finding them which is pretty impressive

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:32)

Mm-hmm.

Are you native Floridian?

Jordan Trowbridge (28:44)

I moved around as a kid a lot and I lived in Florida when I was four to six, something like that, and I just fell in love with it. But I came back in 2017 for college.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:50)

Alright.

Because

you guys are a different breed.

Jordan Trowbridge (28:57)

We are out in the woods, you know.

When I was a kid, I think my parents wound up moved because they couldn't stop me from being in the creek. They thought I was going to get killed. So they were happy to leave. But yeah, it's an interesting place down here. What else are they doing? The Python challenge is something that DeSantis has set up. It's two weeks that you get to, it's kind of like an open invitation.

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:12)

Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (29:25)

big prizes for whoever can find the biggest snakes, the most snakes. There's issues with that. A lot of hunters come down and aren't paying attention to local wildlife and end up running them over. That's one thing that I actually want to do something about is the roads themselves. I think we need to make some more land bridges, put more culverts, ⁓ do something to fix these roads because so much wildlife is killed just getting run over on the roads.

Yeah, I mean, other than that, there's contractors that are allowed to, or paid by the state to go catch them and you know, they do a great job. ⁓ People will get the permits and go catch them, turn their skin into leather, it's great. It's difficult because I worked in the exotic pet trade for a little bit, they, it used to be with green iguanas, I'll say. It used to be you could just go catch green iguanas.

sell them you're either yourself or to Pet shops and they'd sell them out of state or to whoever would buy them But a lot would go out of state Florida changed that rule so you can't you can't really do that. You know they put some restrictions on that and their reasoning for that was people were purposefully moving them around to create

small pockets that they could go collect from and then go make money and it wasn't as much about getting rid of them as like profit, know, which it always is. But they stopped that and the populations have skyrocketed again. So they're rolling that back slowly but surely I believe they should just allow people like me to go catch them, sell them out of state. I get maybe us in Florida, we've lost our privilege to keep them, you know, unless you're really permitted and have the licenses.

I understand that. But at least let us get them and sell them out of state or get them and kill them and use them for products or leather or something like that. If you're going kill animals, I really do like the idea of using it. I hate the idea of killing animals for no reason. I what are you going to do with buffo toads and Cuban tree frogs? I don't think you can do much, but... ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:36)

Mm-hmm.

Jordan Trowbridge (31:45)

I think they should probably start allowing people like me to catch them and sell them out of state. Because it's hard. I mean, I don't know. And another problem is when they allow this open season on the invasive species down here, you get complete idiots who go out and start torturing animals. You know, they're not thinking. They go start sledgehammering them in the back. It's not good euthanasia practices, you know. It's not

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:51)

Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (32:15)

clean and quick and painless. That's the goal when you euthanize an animal. Quick, clean and painless. And so that was an issue too. It's just very complicated. It's so many moving parts. But to do nothing is not a great option because they are spreading, they are multiplying. So I think something has to be done. I know they're really paying attention. I do appreciate Rogan talking about it. Back to Rogan.

But then that's the thing, like they don't mention the worst things, right? Like the cats, which Rogan did mention that at some point, but Cuban tree frogs, the cane toads, because our native amphibian populations are beautiful. We have fish problems. There's even bigger problems with pollution and the lack of water flow in the Everglades. There's just so much going on. It's kind of hard. So people like me, you know, we want to do what we can.

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jordan Trowbridge (33:15)

There's things people like me can do, right? We can rescue animals if you have the time, money, and space, and you'll provide them a good home. I always say that when you're getting animals, you need to really do your research and make sure that they are provided the best life ever. There's so many things. I honestly hate lawns. I think everyone should get rid of their lawn and start planting native plants and native trees because that supports wildlife.

⁓ Manicured law.

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:45)

Yeah, or at least not a manicured lawn. know,

I mean, my lawn is more weeds and bush than anything. I'm very lucky. I have a very large backyard for Toronto ⁓ with massive numbers of trees, about 80 bags of leaves every year we got to rake up. ⁓ I guess you guys don't lose leaves. They don't fall off ⁓ in the wind.

Jordan Trowbridge (33:57)

Yes.

That's love,

They do, we actually

do, and actually I collect the leaves. People will still bag their leaves up and I would even recommend to you throw them back in your yard. It's great, it's great to save the soil.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:17)

well, I definitely don't.

I definitely don't rake all of them. ⁓ Some of that is due to laziness and time. But I also recognize, no, I, you know, I can't. But I can't leave. If I left all of them within about two years, it would be this slime of because they don't really compost well. They just they just turn into this mush that kills everything. But, you know,

Jordan Trowbridge (34:33)

Yes. Nope.

Yup. Yup.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:43)

I've got the dandelions, I've got the weeds, I've probably got more than there is actual grass. Some of that is laziness or time, but it's also, I don't care, the dandelions are gorgeous. My new rescue dog, Bo, from up in the north, he's six months old, for whatever reason, he's recognized that dandelions are nutritious and he eats them. So like, it's hilarious.

Jordan Trowbridge (34:52)

Well, that's good.

Yes, you know, that's something I learned

later in life. Everyone thought dandelions were this crazy weed. They have a lot of health benefits for eating and teeth.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:12)

Oh, dandelion

salads like you can go to some Michelin star restaurant French restaurant and they'll have a dandelion leaf salad. I just a week or two ago, I come out of my house and there's this older lady and she's on my lawn and she's pulling up my dandelions. And I was just like, hello. And she didn't really speak very good English. And she said, is this okay? And I was like, yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (35:17)

Yes.

Yes.

haha

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:40)

I get like you're using them for salad and she kind of nodded and just went back with it and I was just like, damn, all right, works for me, works for you. And she was. I don't know. I don't care. I don't care, right? We don't. Yeah, we don't say get off our lawn like like that Clint Eastwood movie, which is a brilliant movie. But yeah, no Canadians. We're just like, yeah, whatever. That's fine. Do you want to come in? Like we can get you a seat or you would you like a coffee, a beer?

Jordan Trowbridge (35:48)

Good for her. Good for you for being kind about it.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:09)

⁓ and you know, she was probably like 110 years old, but look like she was 70 because she's eating these healthy dandelions.

Jordan Trowbridge (36:17)

I bet that played a part in it. I've heard great things, you know? That's funny. And we don't have them down here. actually, I would love some seeds. I'm looking around. Yeah, we don't really have dandelions in Florida too much.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:21)

Huge, huge, yeah. I haven't tried it.

Really? ⁓ my goodness.

Really? Wow. huh. We'll figure that out sometime. I'll come down and visit you and I'll, I'll instead of, like to bring people things like maple syrup. ⁓ that's a big thing for me is, is, you know, when I've gone, I went to India once and I brought, ⁓ was it, no, was in Egypt. mean, I've done it with each of my countries, but when I went to Egypt to volunteer, I brought a bunch of maple syrup and I handed one to, ⁓ Dr. Ahmed when we went to his house for dinner.

Jordan Trowbridge (36:37)

Yeah.

of the best.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:01)

And ⁓ when I was like, no, it's maple syrup. It's from a tree. And again, language barrier. And he thought it was shampoo. He thought it was for his hair. And then we realized his wife, who was from ⁓ sort of mid Africa instead of North Africa, which is where they were. His wife didn't speak any English, but she did speak French and I don't speak French, but I could at least say for crepes.

Jordan Trowbridge (37:09)

Hahaha

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:28)

You know, like I couldn't say, they didn't understand pancakes. Anyways, so maybe next time, if I come down there, instead of bringing maple syrup, I'll bring you dandelion seeds stuck to my shoes.

Jordan Trowbridge (37:38)

Absolutely, feel free and I can

possibly show you some of the cool invasive species down here. I know where the chameleons are and toke geckos. There's some cool things. Huh? No, no, well I collect them and take them home if I can, you know? If I can. Can't do that with the berms.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:44)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Just don't ask me to kill them. Don't ask me to kill them. You can do that. I. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Even if you're like to

would you? Yeah, I was about to say take them home and feed them. You know.

Jordan Trowbridge (38:02)

Yeah, I mean,

I would take home Burmese pythons and keep them as pets and keep them for their life, but I'm not allowed. It's illegal.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:10)

No, but I saying you could take home these toads or whatever and feed them to some of your snakes. No?

Jordan Trowbridge (38:15)

Well, they're pretty toxic and poisonous. ⁓ I've taken them and kept them as pets before. They're cool creatures. They're all amazing, you know? But, yeah, I don't think you can feed the toxic ones.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:17)

okay, yeah, don't do that. Yeah, Yeah.

Yeah, no. Okay. Good point. Yeah. I don't know

anything about them. ⁓ that was another, there was a, I think it was a cane toad as we were exiting the, ⁓ St. Clair caves in Jamaica. ⁓ yeah. The one guy said, this is a so-and-so, so-and-so, and he used the Latin, the genus and species. And, I was like, Hey, look at this cool toad. Like, look at the beautiful color. He was the size of my boot. He was enormous. And they're like,

Jordan Trowbridge (38:37)

Yes, they're down there too. Yes.

I'm photosynthesis.

Yes, huge.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:53)

yeah that's a cane toad a so-and-so so-and-so it's invasive as well and as I was leaving they were literally picking up a giant rock to deal with it and it was just like

Jordan Trowbridge (39:03)

Yeah, I mean those

will eat the bats. If a bat came down there, that thing would eat it. Those things are voracious eaters, you know?

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:07)

⁓ a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a

lot of problems. And I guess even in Jamaica, like we did some work with the lionfish. went lionfish hunting. ⁓ and at the time. Did I, I think I was a vegetarian then like full on, and then it was that trip. It might've been the lionfish that I became a pescatarian. Like I started eating fish. ⁓ and, ⁓

Jordan Trowbridge (39:18)

⁓ yeah, yeah.

I was gonna ask.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:36)

Yeah. So the lionfish were a big, ⁓ you know, they think three or four of them were released off the coast of Boston, like 30, 40 years ago. And now they've all swept through the Caribbean and, ⁓ down towards Europe, Florida. There you go. All down, down the South and, ⁓ and wiping everything out. ⁓ and the, even the sharks that are there don't recognize them. So don't know the.

Jordan Trowbridge (39:49)

Yup, they're all around Florida.

Yup, no predators.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:05)

don't know that they're predatory. in Jamaica, they did a great public service announcement and it was something like, ⁓ it had a cool rhyme to it, but it was basically good eating. ⁓ Yeah, mean, Look, when you've had fresh rainbow trout or speckled trout ⁓ out of a river in Algonquin Park, north of Toronto.

Jordan Trowbridge (40:18)

Did you like it? I was gonna ask because I've heard they're delicious.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:35)

Nothing's beating that. Like, I'm sorry. ⁓ but it was, yeah, it was nice. It was good. they did it up with some spices, some jerk and some rice and it was yummy. ⁓ but yeah, they're, they're big thing was the Jamaican government. ⁓ I wouldn't say put a bounty, but they basically were very supportive. There was no limits to, to fishing lionfish. any, any fishing that was done in Jamaica.

Jordan Trowbridge (40:58)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:04)

Like if it's done with a net or any of those sort of larger scale, there were permits and certain places you couldn't hunt. ⁓ but you could hunt other fish. ⁓ what's the, the, with spear hunting, you could do spear hunting, but you could not do it with scuba gear. That was the rule in Jamaica. Cause then people would be down there forever shooting anything, right? Except lionfish. They said, if you go down and we see you go down wearing scuba gear and you got

Jordan Trowbridge (41:19)

Yes.

Okay. Yeah, heating, yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:34)

⁓ a spear, a spear gun, you better come up with a lionfish. You come up with anything else and you're, you're, in trouble. But they basically, they were like anything that we can do to get people to kill these lionfish. ⁓ And it was, you know, again, it was a, it was a lesson learned for me because when I went there, I didn't eat fish. And when I came, I, all right, I'll try the lionfish. get it. And I'm now still very selective, but.

Jordan Trowbridge (41:42)

Good for them.

Dr. Cliff Redford (42:03)

Yeah, it was quite an experience. And again, eye-opening. I know how to do surgery. I know a lot about diseases and emergency medicine. But when it comes to wildlife conservation, it's not something I really understand.

Jordan Trowbridge (42:08)

Yes.

And that's where hunters and sportsmen actually play a key role because like in Florida I follow this guy who's two-spear fishing for lionfish and he'll go out and just get tons of them and he's using a pole spear and he's actually diving without the scuba deer but it's interesting because he'll do these videos that I watch and he'll kill them and then he'll feed them to native things. He'll try to like moray eels or certain kinds of fish.

Dr. Cliff Redford (42:28)

Mm.

Jordan Trowbridge (42:46)

They don't recognize it as food. They never recognized it as food, but now that he's feeding them, after he shoots them, he kind of offers them to them in a way where they can eat around the spines, because they have those poisonous spines. So eventually, I see it possibly things figuring out, like, we can eat these if we do it carefully, but lionfish are another one that are incredibly terrible invasive to have. They eat everything.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:14)

Now where are they originally from?

Jordan Trowbridge (43:16)

I think they're Asia.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:17)

Yeah. And so they must have predators there. There's probably like sea, sea turtles or certain predatory fish that are resistant to the poison or I can't imagine they know how to get around it. It's probably just a resistance.

Jordan Trowbridge (43:20)

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

What's

kind of that evolutionary arms race. So when they grow up in those areas together, they are poisonous and the other things get immune to their poison, you know, but now they're introduced here, nothing evolved with them next to them. So they have nothing to counter it. You know, it's so it's.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:49)

Yeah. Yeah.

And by the time mother nature had a chance to allow these species in Jamaica, let's say to evolve and adapt. It's too late. You know, it's too late, especially like the numbers they were saying, I can't remember, but the numbers of the, like the breeding success that a lionfish has and its ability to grow. was something like it could start to breed at six months old, whereas most of the fish.

Jordan Trowbridge (44:01)

It's too late.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:18)

And then it was like rabbits. were just, they were just pumping out baby lion fish like crazy. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a big, it's a big issue. ⁓

Jordan Trowbridge (44:20)

Yep.

Yup, yup.

And were they hanging

out on the coral reefs in Jamaica or? Yeah, I've heard they're decimating the coral reefs and causing all kinds of problems there, killing all the beneficial fish that play integral roles in the reefs and that's damaging our coral reefs. So it's a huge problem that, know, humans really have to get involved in. That's what it comes down to.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:34)

yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. There's definitely a coral reef issue there. geez, I could go on forever. I'll, I'll have to, I'll send you some videos and I'll connect you with some people because like there's this guy, ⁓ you could, if you were to Google Mel, the turtle man tenant T E N N and T, ⁓ and he did a Ted talk, but, ⁓ we did a mini episode or a mini story on him. He.

Jordan Trowbridge (45:13)

Okay.

Dr. Cliff Redford (45:23)

Now this hasn't to do with coral. There's a story after this about coral, when he arrived in Jamaica, I don't know, 15 years, well, this was nine years ago. So 25 years ago, he was a retired ⁓ computer professor, computer technology professor out of the UK. So I had nothing, no, no idea about biology. He goes down to his, has this little beach down by Aracabessa Bay up in the North, North shore.

And he would call it his beach. It's not really, but he would call it his beach. And it was not even a mile long. And at one point he was like, why are people riding ATVs on my beach? And the local said, no, Mr. Tennant, that's not Mr. Mel, that's not ATV, that's turtle tracks. He had no idea, right? So he started doing this research and he realized, these hawksbills are coming up and they're nesting. And he started to see how the nests weren't surviving. And they weren't surviving either.

people were digging them up because they thought the nest, the eggs, the turtle eggs were like Viagra. the cats and the dogs were digging them up, but also like ants or, you know, a retaining wall was near that nest and the turtle doesn't know. So the water ends up seeking in seeping in and he starts doing research and I won't get into the, like the plethora of research, but that first year, which was 10 years before I interviewed him, he released.

maybe 300 turtles, got them into the ocean, right? Right after they hatched. 10 years later, when I went, he had released just that year, 20,000 turtles. And they have a ⁓ 10 to 20 year return cycle. Like depending on if they go down to the Gulf of Mexico or if they go across the ocean, like I think some of it's fluke, some of it's the time of year.

Jordan Trowbridge (47:04)

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:21)

They're going to return either 10 or 20 years later and they returned to the beach that they were hatched at, right? They have this internal GPS. So it was the next year, so eight years ago that he's like, I'm going to start seeing back some of the turtles that I have released. And his program became so popular, so successful. First of all, they got these big government grants and they started to move the nest to other beaches in Jamaica.

Jordan Trowbridge (47:28)

Exactly,

Dr. Cliff Redford (47:50)

these like PhD marine biologists were now meeting with this guy and learning about how he just simply looked at the data and figured out that nest isn't going to survive and here's why. And you know, he would even know when turtles are coming. He's like, okay, Bessie's coming back again in two weeks because she always comes back and in two weeks.

The moon's going to be located in a certain spot in the sky and she doesn't like to lay eggs ⁓ in the shadows and these trees are going to create shadows. So she's going to lay her nest a hundred yards down there. And he was always right. Like it was this amazing, this amazing frigging thing. ⁓ people, experts believe he has possibly made the steps to teach people to save the species, right?

Jordan Trowbridge (48:31)

Wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (48:42)

⁓ And then there's this issue with the coral that the coral were being bleached. But the biggest issue was this one thing in Aracabessa Bay, the coral were dying because it was overfished. ⁓ But they were able to then through government grants, get the fishermen to agree not to fish this one bay. And they paid some of the fishermen to learn how to plant coral. It's like, we're going to give you a new job.

Jordan Trowbridge (49:08)

Wow, yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:10)

you need to feed your family, we get it. So we're going to pay you to plant coral. So we ended up we actually got our patty license, our our open water scuba license, so we could go and plant coral. And they have completely rejuvenated this coral ⁓ field, ⁓ park, whatever you call it ⁓ in Aracabessa Bay, and now the fish have returned. So now that you know, then the fishermen got fish. So is this this amazing if people can just figure out

Jordan Trowbridge (49:26)

Yes.

Yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (49:37)

Okay, this is hurting the environment. It's also therefore going to hurt us and especially the natives who, you know, or the people who are relying on that environment. And let's not just say, don't do it. Let's say, don't do whatever you're doing. Here's the alternative that's going to give you a job and also improve the world, improve the environment so that later your friends can work and your kids can work and you know,

Jordan Trowbridge (49:47)

Exactly.

Yeah.

Exactly. That is the

right way to go.

Dr. Cliff Redford (50:08)

Yeah, it's got to be education and it's got to be, ⁓ you know, sort of empathy and understanding. And, and, and I guess as we wrap this up, like, and I'm to have you back cause this, could talk forever. ⁓ like the, the, I like what you said about hunters. Like there's a lot of, I'm a, I'm an unusual vegetarian in that I will, I only don't eat meat because I don't like factory farming and I don't have the money or the time.

Jordan Trowbridge (50:20)

Forever man, I could go on forever.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (50:37)

to figure out, you know, there are a lot of great ⁓ full free pasture grass fed grass raised grass finished beef, you know, that sort of thing. But I would, I would eat hunted animals, you know, now I don't hunt. I don't have the time. I don't have, I just, I just don't. So I just generally don't eat meat, but what a lot of

Jordan Trowbridge (50:47)

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (51:02)

animal rights activists and I love them and it's great. And what a lot of vegetarians or vegans don't recognize is probably the greatest supporters of the environment and wildlife conservation are hunters, ⁓ especially duck hunters. Like in Canada, we have ⁓ a protect the wetlands sort of society and there's these massive laws across Canada that have been created to

Jordan Trowbridge (51:15)

They really are. Yes, yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (51:31)

to protect wetlands and it was funded and pushed and created by duck hunters. You know, they, they recognize there's gotta be a need. So, ⁓ yeah, there's gotta be a need.

Jordan Trowbridge (51:38)

Yeah.

Exactly. And when I was growing up in Pennsylvania, it was very interesting to me. I never ended up shooting anything, but I did get my hunting license. I went through the classes. I learned about the conservation efforts by the hunters. where I was, you mentioned the coyotes. Coyotes come in because the wolves are all gone. And that was the predator for the deer for such a long time, but we've wiped those out. So where I lived in Pennsylvania, the deer were so...

so vast in number, people were hitting them with their cars. Like every day there was a car accident with a deer. They were everywhere. And PETA, unfortunately, would buy up the doe tags so hunters couldn't even go shoot them. And I had friends who would complain, but sometimes you have to do things. And you know, love for animals is great, but sometimes it can go too far. And it really...

Like I said, it comes down to humans to be good stewards, to really set things straight because we've messed them up. So now it's our duty to kind of do what that guy in Jamaica is doing and save the turtles, go out and hunt some deer, know, fix the populations. And it's, you really got to listen to the scientists and look at the data, but then you can come up with solutions, you know? So it's a beautiful thing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:03)

Yeah, you can,

you can have the emotion of, I want to protect the species. want to, I want to protect the environment and, and, conserve wildlife. But you can't use your emotion to make the final decision. You got to, you got to, you got to talk to the experts and look at the numbers and look at the, at the big picture, right? ⁓ you know, yeah, yeah. It, it, it broke my heart to think about Mr. Wicked.

Jordan Trowbridge (53:22)

Yes, and come up with logical solutions.

Dr. Cliff Redford (53:31)

killing that eight month old kitten, but I understood and I wasn't going to hate him for it. And he was, you know, he was doing a greater good in protecting a species that they thought was extinct and would have been had they had not created this sanctuary. ⁓ So ⁓ yeah, we just need, I think a lot of us just need to, you know, take that emotion that we have and, and just

Jordan Trowbridge (53:35)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (54:01)

Directed in a slightly more positive and open-minded open-minded manner, which which could be for everything in life Yeah, everything in life. There you go. We're solving world problems here. I love it. I love it 100 % understand next time we're gonna have to talk about that conversation you didn't have with that woman on social media who was you're trying to get her have a debate with you, but

Jordan Trowbridge (54:06)

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

We're getting there. It all starts with conversation, right, Dr. Cliff?

I just want to talk

to people, you know? The only way to solve problems, settle our differences, come up with good ideas that benefit everyone is just to talk. But it seems to me that some people don't want to talk. And I just find that to be a shame, especially when you're open-minded and open to new information, you know? And I think that's a great place to be. Don't be so close-minded. Learn. Try to learn. Talk to people who are smarter than you. Talk to people...

Dr. Cliff Redford (54:36)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (54:56)

who you don't know about, know, get to know people. That's all.

Dr. Cliff Redford (54:59)

Yeah, yeah, I was just listening to Bono. Bono was on Joe Rogan while I was mowing my lawn. And he talks about he does this quote from somebody else and he basically says, and he talks about how Rogan has everybody, you know, so many different people on that don't agree with them or different walks of life, different political standings, whatnot, which is great. And he talks about the Bono talks about the power of listening.

Jordan Trowbridge (55:06)

Yes, I haven't gotten there yet, but I will.

Find it beautiful.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:26)

And he says, listening to a different opinion doesn't give that opinion necessarily power or righteousness. It just makes you more human and it makes your opponent more human. So we just got to listen, you know, and then afterwards say, that guy doesn't know what the heck he's talking about, but that's fine. At least you listen to him. 100%, 100%.

Jordan Trowbridge (55:41)

Exactly. Wise words.

Yeah, I mean you gotta use some logic and rational thinking, exactly. Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (55:53)

Alright,

so where can, I want people to follow you, I want people to ⁓ support you and get a gander at your cool hair and mustache. So where can people reach out to you?

Jordan Trowbridge (56:01)

⁓ Absolutely,

follow me on Instagram. That's probably the best place. I don't really use other social medias too much. Eventually I'll get a YouTube channel going and really start talking about ⁓ just conservation, animals, nature. I love plants. I just love all things nature. I grew up watching Steve Irwin. He's the inspiration. I just watched your documentary. It was beautiful. That needs to get out there to the whole world. Dr. Cliff, that was

Dr. Cliff Redford (56:23)

Yep.

I hear you,

man. It's so good. Yeah, they did a great job. We all did a great job in filming it and producing it. Did you cry at all?

Jordan Trowbridge (56:31)

That was so good, man.

Yes.

What wonderful people

too. Did I cry? A little bit. The monkey dying just got me, man. I can't believe you risked your life almost for a pigeon. It was just wild. It was just amazing. Your daughter seems amazing. Emily, right? That's your daughter? Wonderful. You just did a great job raising a true wildlife warrior and I just love that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (56:43)

Did you cry at all?

I know it's so sad

It was pretty. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

she's brilliant. She's brilliant. ⁓

Jordan Trowbridge (57:07)

Is she following

in your footsteps becoming a vet, vet Emily, doc Emily?

Dr. Cliff Redford (57:11)

No,

none of, none of my kids wanted to do that. I mean, ⁓ all three of them worked at my clinic. and, ⁓ Emily, she ended up volunteering at shades of hope with me years ago, and then she started traveling and, she just loved it. She's learned so much. She can do things now that I can't, like if I, if I fix a bird's broken wing and it needs to have a wing wrap, like a figure eight wrap or a body wrap, and they're different.

I hand them to her. I could figure it out, she knows how to do it. There's some great stories about her managing anesthetic when we're in the jungles of Panama with these howler monkeys screaming. I don't have to worry about the anesthetic. She knows the injectable drugs. She's figured it out. She's an animal warrior. Yeah, yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (57:41)

Wow I find that so beautiful. That's amazing

And brilliant, clearly, you did a great

job, man. And I love that, I want more of that. think everything really starts with that. Like when you have children, or even just family or friends that are younger, just instilling that love of wildlife and nature and passing the torch on to them. And it seems that maybe one day she'll be smarter than you, right? Kind of crazy to think.

Dr. Cliff Redford (58:30)

yeah.

Yeah. A hundred percent. She's, ⁓ she's, she's, she's brilliant. My kids are amazing. I'm so proud of them, obviously. ⁓ I love it. Okay. So what is your Instagram? ⁓ TRO. Perfect. And I'll throw it on the, I'll throw it on the summary of this episode. This thing should go up in a couple of days while everyone's listening to this. So it's already up. but this will go up in a couple of days and I'll send you some links and.

Jordan Trowbridge (58:37)

Well, I loved it.

My Instagram is Jordan Trow. J-O-R-D-A-N-T-R-O, yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (58:59)

Send it around to all your buddies, man. It'll be great. Yeah, we're going to definitely have you on again.

Jordan Trowbridge (59:00)

Beautiful, I will for sure. Thank you so much, Dr. Cliff.

Absolutely would love to. Have a great one, Dr. Cliff.

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:09)

All right, we had said goodbye to Jordan and then he pulled out his snake slippy, which was the one that was hanging out with Natalia. ⁓ Tell me about this ⁓ male, female?

Jordan Trowbridge (59:21)

I don't know, I... Sexing snakes is pretty tough for me and I don't like messing with them and I'm not really trying to breed. I'm not a breeder. So it doesn't matter. I just... I just love them. I take them in. It's a super pastel, which means it's real light. It's not the normal colors. It's a beautiful snake and ball pythons are just wonderful.

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:22)

⁓ it's pretty tough.

Yeah, yeah, All right.

Jordan Trowbridge (59:42)

one of the best if not the best beginner snake that I recommend. Do your research. Slippy is probably around

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:45)

And that's what that's what slippy is. old would slippy be?

Jordan Trowbridge (59:54)

Seven? It's really hard to tell with rescues, know? You get them and you have no clue. I mean, it's an adult-sized snake. They don't get...

Dr. Cliff Redford (59:58)

Hmm.

You can't just look at its teeth and see how dirty its teeth are. ⁓

Jordan Trowbridge (1:00:05)

Definitely not, no. I

don't see it too often. mean if I do it's probably an issue.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:00:12)

Yeah, you probably shouldn't. That's right. Now, how do you take care of Slippy? What do you feed him and how often?

Jordan Trowbridge (1:00:19)

So yeah, Slippy's eaten about, she's eaten a large rat, pretty much not a jumbo, but a large rat, ⁓ about once a month, maybe once every three weeks. It depends, it depends on the rescue. Sometimes I get underweight snakes that you gotta feed more. Sometimes I get overweight snakes, which you feed less. And then it depends what you feed them, what size, how long they can go. But yeah, typically a couple weeks.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:00:47)

Beautiful. love it. So pretty. So, so, so, so pretty. And you said it was a light pastel. That's like, ⁓ that's like, ⁓ not a breed, just a color marking morph. Okay. Gotcha. We see occasionally, ⁓ for me, probably one of the most beautiful bird birds is the red morph screech owl. And they're just like,

Jordan Trowbridge (1:00:50)

She is a beauty.

Yes, I like that.

It is a morph. It's not a normal coloration. It's a morph. Yes.

Wow.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:01:15)

Wow. I'll send you some photos. They're incredible. You got it. If you're ever up in the Toronto area or looking to you come up, I'll take you up to the wildlife place. We occasionally I've done some surgery on, ⁓ on amphibians and reptiles. it's mostly birds of prey. ⁓ you know, hawks, owls, eagles, deer, opossums, lot of opossums. They're not native here, but they're not invasive.

Jordan Trowbridge (1:01:17)

Yes, please.

I would love that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:01:43)

Um, they have made their way here. Yeah. They eat ticks. They're, uh, they're rabies resistant. Uh, Lyme disease is a problem here. You know, it's probably much more of a problem where you are, but, um, Oh yeah, no way. Oh, that's awful. Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Trowbridge (1:01:44)

They're good to have, eat ticks.

Yes.

Yup, I got it actually when I was younger. Yeah, hopefully it doesn't impact me later in life, but yeah, got the

deer kick with the bullseye and yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (1:02:05)

whole bit.

The whole bit, the whole bit. yeah, so, ⁓ I love it. This has been great. All right. We're going to say goodbye again. Okay. I love it. I love it. All right.

Jordan Trowbridge (1:02:15)

Amazing. Alright. Second time's the charm. Have a great one, Dr. Cliff. Pleasure.