Dr. Warren "Drew" Miles - The Jungle Vet

In this episode of Vet Life, Dr. Cliff Redford interviews Dr. Drew Miles, a young veterinarian who shares his journey in veterinary medicine, emphasizing the importance of fitness, continuous learning, and wildlife conservation. They discuss the challenges of emergency care, the significance of staying physically fit in the demanding field of veterinary medicine, and the adventures Dr. Miles has experienced through international travel. The conversation highlights the need for veterinarians to step out of their comfort zones and embrace opportunities for growth and learning.

Be sure to follow Dr. Drew on Instagram at @the junglevet

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com and on Twitter at @drcliff_vet
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:01)

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of VetLife with me, Dr. Cliff. How's everyone doing? I am so excited for this interview. It's taken a while for us to connect. We've been, Dr. Drew and I, Dr. Drew and I have been, I don't know why I repeated that over and over again. Dr. Drew and I have been chatting a lot on Instagram and just shooting the.

S-H-I-T, and just talking about all kinds of things. And that's what this interview is about. He's a young kid, he's only been a veterinarian for a couple of years. He's already traveled all over the world to more places than I have, which I guess is saying a lot. And he's just a cool dude, cool inspiration. We talk about boxing, we talk about the importance of fitness, ⁓ and mostly about challenging ourselves, and what a great.

career being a veterinarian and being able to volunteer and go around the world and check out new adventures. So it's been a long time coming and I'm very, very excited for you guys to listen to the upcoming interview.

Dr. Drew Miles (01:17)

All good?

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:19)

Yes, I dodged a bullet. He was starting to chew on my wife's very expensive cycling shoes. I was like, ⁓ shit. ⁓ shit. And although she was kind of like, we should probably keep him when we were fostering him. In the end, I was the one that brought him back from the Arctic North. So she still says, this is your dog. What can you do? What can you do?

Dr. Drew Miles (01:26)

Oh no, no, no, no, that wouldn't have been good.

Hahaha.

Yeah, for sure. No, I get it. Totally.

Yeah, right.

You gotta love them anyway. Gotta love them anyway.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:49)

⁓ Dude, thanks for

joining me. This is exciting.

Dr. Drew Miles (01:54)

Yes, yes, of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad we were able to figure out a time, work it out, because I've been super excited for this. That's cool.

Dr. Cliff Redford (01:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

definitely. All right, I'll kind of clean up this beginning because it's already recording, but we'll just kind of get to this. So everyone, welcome back to Vet Life with Dr. Cliff. I've got the jungle vet with me, Dr. Drew Miles. How's it going, buddy?

Dr. Drew Miles (02:17)

It is going great. Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Cliff. I'm excited. I'm excited to speak about everything. Excited to get to know more about each other. Excited to just talk about Vet Med and about being bros, man. That's all, that's really all it is,

Dr. Cliff Redford (02:27)

Yeah, yeah, working out, boxing. Dude, you were,

you posted yesterday or this morning, I guess you finished a late shift. Then we're in the gym at like 12 30 in the morning.

Dr. Drew Miles (02:41)

That is true. is true. Listen, man, has to get done. I mean, I had, I was not able to go in the morning or in the afternoon because I had to hop into work early on in the afternoon for like the swing shift. And, you know, I set a schedule for myself each week and I really try my best to like stick to it. And then, you know, it just worked out where I didn't have work today. So I said, you know what, man, why not? Let me just go ahead and right after work.

get a quick little hour in and that'll help me go to sleep because I'll be tired. it works that way.

Dr. Cliff Redford (03:13)

Yeah. Yeah.

A while ago, I interviewed a, personal trainer, ⁓ out of the UK named Tom Sutherland, and he specializes in, in helping, ⁓ medical professionals, veterinary dentists, doctors, basically people that are busy, ⁓ achieve their fitness goals, whatever they may be. And he had a great saying that he says he chooses consistently good over occasionally perfect.

⁓ Every day so, you know you might have had an amazing workout, but even if you didn't have a you know, the best workout of your life You're chasing those gains and just a little bit of a you know, a good workout is better than none at all. So ⁓ Yeah, yeah

Dr. Drew Miles (03:56)

I completely agree. I mean, ⁓

I completely agree. I think for me, ⁓ I share that same sentiment and like just getting one, 1 % better every day. Like, and that can be through anything physically, like it doesn't have to be an actual workout. It could just be, you know, running. It could be going for a walk. It could be doing a hundred pushups before bed, doing something to, you know, increase your physical and mental fitness, just at least 1 % each day is really all I strive for, man, because

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:16)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Drew Miles (04:25)

It just, it increases your life in so many different aspects when you're physically fit, like for so many different reasons that we could spend forever talking about. But if I can get it in, I'm able-bodied now and I really want to take advantage of that blessing, man, because when you think about it, there are many people in this world that are not privileged enough to go ahead and work out. So I mean, think it's super important that for the ones like ourselves who are able-bodied and have that blessing and privilege to do so.

We should use it and utilize it to its fullest, I'm not getting any younger. So I'm in my prime right now. Let me take advantage of my prime, you know, years right now. Look, you're in your adult prime. I'm in like, I'm in my young adult prime still. I'm 27.

Dr. Cliff Redford (04:57)

Wait a minute. I'm in my prime. How old are you?

Nice try.

I peaked and now holding it. So you, you chase that 1 % growth or that 1 % improvement. I'm fighting off the 1 % decline. That's, that's, that's, that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm doing. No, I mean, I'm, I'm arguably, mean, forget the injuries and the arthritis and the stuff that I have and the metal hip and this and that. although I can't do ultra marathons anymore.

Dr. Drew Miles (05:22)

I like that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (05:38)

my cardiovascular fitness might be the best it's ever been. And, and I can't bench as much as I used to, but I can do other sort of plyometric things that I couldn't do 20 years ago. ⁓ you just changed things up, but, ⁓ and you said as, know, as especially as far as being a veterinarian, this is a pretty tough frigging job we got, ⁓ both emotionally and physically. And if we can at least keep ourselves, ⁓ as close to peak condition as possible, it's.

It makes things so much more doable and enjoyable.

Dr. Drew Miles (06:11)

We need be able to lift those 110 pound dogs up to that table to do what we got to do and makes it a lot easier when you're in the gym. I'll say that makes it a lot easier. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:20)

A hundred percent, a hundred percent.

When I was your age, that was always my, I worked at this great clinic up in Nobleton. It was just me and the boss. ⁓ and he had no, no floor scale. The, the exam room table was the scale. So every animal had to go up on the exam room table. And I had learned that my comfort zone was a hundred pounds and I can lift a lot more than that. You know, I can deadlift way more than that, even, even now compared to them.

Dr. Drew Miles (06:42)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (06:48)

but it was a hundred pounds. don't lift a hundred pounds anymore. ⁓ But yeah, you gotta adjust things as you get older. ⁓ See, we could talk about being gym rats and weekend warriors forever. ⁓ And look, vet life isn't just about being a veterinarian, man. It's about all kinds of things. But let's hear about who you are as a veterinarian. Where are you? You're in Florida?

Dr. Drew Miles (06:51)

There, there.

100.

We could.

Yeah.

Yes, sir. I'm in Florida. I'm on the west coast of Florida. Primarily like just like the general Tampa Bay area.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:21)

Beautiful. Okay. And, and you're only 27. So you just graduated like a week ago.

Dr. Drew Miles (07:22)

Yeah.

I am 27.

Yeah, it seems like that, right? I'm still fresh out for the most part, still got the baby scent on me. I graduated in 23. So I've been in practice officially a full two years last month, actually, Yep, yep, yep.

Dr. Cliff Redford (07:41)

Nice, nice.

And do you work at a, like, what's your practice that you're working at now versus then let's get into all your crazy adventures?

Dr. Drew Miles (07:51)

Yeah, of course. So I primarily do emergency and urgent care work. And like I said, it's kind of throughout the general like Tampa Bay area. ⁓ So that's, that's what I decided to do fresh out of school. I felt like emergency was the environment of veterinary medicine that I was most interested in. And it wasn't something that was always of interest for me, like growing up and being interested in veterinary medicine. wanted to actually be a shelter vet first.

And that's a whole lore behind that but we won't we'll save that maybe for a little bit later But there's a whole lore behind wanting me to be a shelter vet that changed actually in vet school Maybe like my third or fourth year when emergency an emergency job came across my table and just seemed very interesting Mentorship was good all those things and it's what made me decide Hey, like I think if I go into small animal to a start at least because that was always my plan like go into small animal for a year or two

get the experience, get the ground skills for dogs and cats, because most of that translates into the larger species anyway. Let me get a solid foundation to maybe three years and then make it fully wildlife. So ⁓ that's what I did. Went into emergency and I really, really, really enjoyed it. And ⁓ that is what I do primarily full time when I'm in the States to make a living, of course, because as you're probably familiar with, ⁓ wildlife medicine, know, Zubet medicine is not great.

with with pay. mean, there's definitely some good ⁓ jobs out there. If you stay in it and build up, you can definitely make a decent living. And that's that's the goal for me. But right now to make a living to pay back loans, all those things, I decided to do full time emergency and like urgent care work. And then ⁓ throughout the year, that's when I do my international travels and do conservation field work in other countries, sometimes even here in the US as well. Like there's

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:26)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Drew Miles (09:39)

certain sanctuaries in Florida, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to move to Florida, is so many sanctuaries, big cats that shouldn't be here, but they're here and they need the attention anyway. So I spend my time and efforts, you know, throughout the year, intermittently volunteering and going across abroad to help out there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (09:48)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, you know, you bring up that good point about, you know, the big cats that are in sanctuaries and they shouldn't be there, but they're there anyways. ⁓ I get, you know, I occasionally, I don't do really zoo work, except when I am traveling, I've done some work at zoos and in the West Indies and in India. And occasionally people are like, like, what are you doing? You know, you're, treating these animals.

Dr. Drew Miles (10:18)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:20)

And I kind of say, look, if I was ⁓ a, I don't believe in violence, but if I'm an army medic, I'm gonna be taking care of not only my fellow soldiers, but if I come across one of the enemies and they're injured, ⁓ I'm gonna fix them. ⁓ I don't know what happens after that. I guess they get traded for some of our friends, but my little puppy's crying here. He's like, I don't like what you're talking about.

Dr. Drew Miles (10:40)

You're right.

Right, I know.

Dr. Cliff Redford (10:49)

⁓ But

yeah, it's, know what, we're here for the animals and regardless, you just take care of them and you just help them out and they're in the situation that they're in. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Dr. Drew Miles (11:01)

sure and you know

it's tough I mean it's never it's not a black and white topic by any means everyone has their own emotional take towards it and for the most part you just have to respect that but for what we do every day and what we wake up and you know dedicate our lives to again the animals are there they they're not unfortunately not not going to be there so because they're there and they need the attention and the care I'm going to provide it to them when and if I can so

Dr. Cliff Redford (11:27)

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. It's really, it's really smart of you to, you know, focus on the, the companion animals, the urgent care, the emergency, even, you know, regular wellness stuff, if that's what you do to get your skills up. Um, I didn't get into wildlife medicine until I started volunteering seven years ago. have this amazing wildlife rehab place about an hour north of Toronto.

⁓ and I go up every single Thursday right now and I was only supposed to do it for six months. It was because I was doing these travels around the world and I started, you know, they're all of a sudden do surgery on a crocodile and do, you know, help with this giant flying bat, this giant fruit bat in, India. All right, shoot. better start figuring out more than cats and dogs. Cause that's all that I had. ⁓ now again, it was only supposed to be six months. It's now seven years and I'm loving it.

Dr. Drew Miles (12:04)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:19)

⁓ and I don't get paid anything. So you're right. There's not a lot of money in wildlife medicine, but like I learned how to do all the things I'm doing on, on birds and lizards and, and, and deer and porcupines and whatnot raccoons because I had that solid foundation in cats and dogs. ⁓ so if you can, if you can stitch a dog up, if you can do a spay, people think of space, it's just a spay. No, it's a.

Dr. Drew Miles (12:23)

Correct. Correct.

Dr. Cliff Redford (12:47)

This is an ovarian hysterectomy. You're removing arguably three organs. if you can do that, you can do almost any soft tissue surgery. So, ⁓

Dr. Drew Miles (12:48)

in

Yes.

I completely

agree, man. Like people try and like downplay the level of intensity that a spay is, but you're dealing with some pretty major vessels too. mean, if you don't like it off that, you know, that vessel, there's your hemo-abdomen for sure. And it's a whole chaotic thing. for sure, spay might be a routine procedure, but it is extremely, extremely important. like, you know, hard to do. Yeah. Yes. For sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:19)

Yeah. Yeah. It's routine, but it's complex. Yeah, it's routine, but it's complex, right? Like it's routine in

the sense of, know, how this is going to go. ⁓ you know, the steps is not an exploratory, but it's very, very complex. And if you can, if you can, ⁓ strengthen your foundations, it's like that with anything, right? You know, I do some boxing amateur old beer, gray bearded, you know, degree boxing, old masters, old man, old man league. And, ⁓

Dr. Drew Miles (13:29)

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah

Dr. Cliff Redford (13:48)

You know, even I'm telling the young kids, man, that's a sweet combo. What's your jab like, you know, get your jab, get your jab, man. Like, yeah, yeah, there you go. Get your jab, get your cardio. You don't have those two things. I'll beat you every single minute of the day.

Dr. Drew Miles (13:53)

Come on, come on, there it is, there it is, there it is, let them know.

Right.

And I second that no matter what, man, the fundamentals are what's going to lead you to success. Like for sure. I'm still working on my job, man. Like I said, I think I told you in our messages, like I just started boxing recently this year, but I have the background in like MMA and things like that and karate. ⁓ but boxing to me, just, I always wanted to start boxing. ⁓ you know, I just never like, never really like decided to just go do it. you know, all these years. So to this year, I had a lot of personal goals for myself that I was looking to achieve in boxing was.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:23)

nice.

Hmm.

Dr. Drew Miles (14:36)

Definitely one of those like this year I'm going to start getting into boxing and it's been great so far. actually have a session later today. I won like one or two o'clock. yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:43)

Beautiful, beautiful.

you, did you compete in karate at all? Yeah, and MMA? No.

Dr. Drew Miles (14:47)

I did. Yeah. not MMA, but for karate,

I did, I used to do karate tournaments all the time. I was actually a third degree black belt. and, ⁓ yeah, karate was super fun. I'm really thankful that my parents put us in to karate, told us, know, discipline, respect, at a very young age and, know, just how to, in a basic sense, defend ourselves. But that's why I started to do MMA because karate was not enough. Like,

Dr. Cliff Redford (14:55)

beauty

Dr. Drew Miles (15:12)

It just was like very basic movement. So MMA made a little bit more complex, a little bit more serious. And I used to do MMA with my older brother, my oldest brother. And that, you know, was a few years. Then I went off to college and stopped doing it. And then having done really any form of like combat training until now, again, with boxing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:16)

Mm-hmm.

That was, mean, other than switch karate into judo, that was my exact, I did judo and I did a whole bunch of martial arts as a kid. You know, I, grew up in a rough area, a lot of socioeconomic sort of challenges. And I was a short chubby white kid who had a smart mouth. ⁓ I was a bit of a smart ass and I, I, I, I still have a bit of an edge when it comes to authority.

Dr. Drew Miles (15:33)

same thing.

Right.

Okay. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (15:56)

⁓ and so I quickly had to learn and, and, know, when you're arguably five foot seven, if I'm lucky, ⁓ you know, lot of, a lot of the striking sports weren't good for me, but boy, man, did judo take off and, and, but then I stopped doing it during, ⁓ university and then the kids were born, run in my business and then got back into it. And eventually, and I competed, you know, national level, got my black belt the whole bit. ⁓

Dr. Drew Miles (15:56)

for sure.

What a good day,

EEE

Dr. Cliff Redford (16:26)

And then after having these other injuries, cruciate on my knee, arthritis in the hip, requiring a hip replacement, I can name off a bunch of them. No regrets. ⁓ I love it. I fell in love with boxing. ⁓ But boy, I would imagine your karate going to boxing transferred a whole lot better than judo going to boxing, because I got lit up. ⁓ I got lit up. It was crazy. ⁓

Dr. Drew Miles (16:37)

GAYER

Yes, I would have to agree. Man.

I would definitely agree, mean, first of all, just like kudos to you, man. Like I don't know how old you are exactly and you don't have to share information, but I will say, dude, I was about to say you don't even look that like old. I wasn't going to you sub 50, honestly. I was just going to give you like a high forties. But people tend to just, you know, I'm getting old. I'm not, I'm not going to, you know, take care of myself in the physical sense anymore, man. And like, despite having, you know, those surgeries and those injuries and still.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:03)

I'm 52.

Dr. Drew Miles (17:24)

you know, surpassing that and keeping yourself physically fit is like extremely impressive, man. And I tell my dad the same, my dad's around the same age as yourself. I think you guys are exactly the same age. Sometimes I forget his age. I know he's 52 or 53, but he's, you know, keeps himself in the gym, keeps himself active. He jobs with my mom every now and then. So it's like, it's super important for so, again, so many different aspects, but I just commend you, you know, older, you know, men like yourself and my father.

Dr. Cliff Redford (17:30)

Hmm.

Dr. Drew Miles (17:52)

for maintaining that work ethic in the physical sense of things at your age, because that's how I aspire to be. It's just discipline, right? I think the disciplined man wins. And when you're able to still muster up that discipline and miss having kids and miss having a family and miss having an entire business, mean, it's tons and leaps and bounds more impressive than myself at 27 where, you know, you have my job, but like, you have a family, dude. Like you have kids, like, you know.

Dr. Cliff Redford (18:18)

Yeah. Yeah. The difference

is, is, is you would have as much excuse not to work out because you're not fighting that 1 % decline each year. Right. You are in your peak and, and, and you would be quite physically able, even if you didn't go to the gym, not as able as the fact that you are in shape. Um, but there are a lot of people your age that man, look at me. look good.

Why do I need to go to the gym? Or I can eat processed foods. you had a post recently about eating real foods. ⁓ And they don't, this is where I sound like a grumpy old man, kids these days and every single generation, when you're a kid, don't realize, or most kids don't realize, and I'm considering you a kid, most kids don't realize how important taking care of themselves is.

Dr. Drew Miles (19:04)

Hahaha

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:15)

not only for the future, but for the present, it makes a huge, huge difference. And as far as those older people that say, well, you know, I'm getting old, so it's tough to get into the gym. That's why they're getting old because they have that attitude, right? And, and, and, you know, take it back to, veterinarian medicine. When I started volunteering and when I started learning about getting back into my love for wildlife, cause it was something I wanted to do when I was in vet school, I graduated in 90.

Dr. Drew Miles (19:27)

Right. Right. Right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (19:45)

eight. So you were just born around there. There you go. I graduated 98 and you know, I wanted to do some wildlife stuff, but it just didn't work out on on the clinics that I worked at, which is fine. But it would have been fine for me to at the time at 45 years old to say, look, I'm in the second half, the final third of my career. I'm getting old, you know, in my career, why do I need to learn this new stuff?

Dr. Drew Miles (19:48)

Just born. Yes, sir. Just born.

for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:14)

Well, that's, that's how you get old in this career. That's how you burn out. That's how you lose the love of it. Right. And, and I've always loved people are going to be sick of hearing this, the listeners. I've always loved being a veterinarian. I think it's the greatest profession in the world and it suits me perfectly. like a custom made suit, but I love it even more now that I, you know, get to treat bald eagles and, and

Dr. Drew Miles (20:28)

Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Yeah dude, that's freaking

cool.

Dr. Cliff Redford (20:43)

micro

bats and, you know, just, just the craziest animals that I get to treat. ⁓ and then traveling abroad and seeing these new cultures and learning these new things from non veterinarians and, know, these supposed countries that have lower level standards in medicine and surgery. And yeah, they can't get the anesthetics that we get and this and that, but boy, do they know their, their, their, their medicine and their surgery. And I learned so much. So, ⁓ you're going to be.

Dr. Drew Miles (20:55)

Yeah.

Man, who are you telling?

Dr. Cliff Redford (21:12)

Jesus, by the time you're my age, man, you're going to be, you're going to be a star.

Dr. Drew Miles (21:15)

⁓

I'm trying, man. mean, I'm trying. I'm honestly, I really am Dr. Cliff and I definitely appreciate that, like that, that encouragement because there's so much to learn and there's so many times, you know, in my career, you know, as a young professional that like, I'm just like, man, I need to know more or like, I don't know enough. I don't feel like I'm, I'm at a position where I'm like content with my knowledge. So I'm always finding ways to try and, you know, increase my, my knowledge set when it comes to wildlife medicine, because I mean, we thought.

In vet school, you don't learn about dogs, cats, pigs, cows, horses, and even some small exotics was a lot. But then when you graduate and you decide to pursue wildlife and you got to learn now all the wildlife species as well. like, that's just like, it's like very overwhelming at times. And sometimes it makes me wonder if I want to go and pursue like a residency to get that formal education. I thought about that. I batted with that. ⁓ but there's actually been, I've actually been more inclined to pursue like.

like a master's type of program for like wildlife conservation. way I kind of get the, like there's online programs now as well that allowed me to still work. I can complete it on my own time, but I'm still getting that kind of structured curriculum that I'm looking for ⁓ to increase my, my, my skillset when it comes to wildlife medicine, particularly. So kind of what I'm navigating through right now, I actually just, ⁓ just found a, ⁓ programs curriculum sort of thing.

Dr. Cliff Redford (22:19)

Hmm.

Dr. Drew Miles (22:45)

particularly for African wildlife, that really seems to pique my interest and I think I'm gonna pursue that. I think that would be really helpful for me to start taking on gigs on my own at a higher volume. Because right now I try and still find events that I can work with on procedures or work under or just be around the general vicinity. But eventually I want to start making this, I wanna swap the level of what I'm seeing. I wanna bring down small animal and bring up wildlife. And in order to do that, I have to be more

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:04)

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Drew Miles (23:15)

you know, just a little bit more self-sufficient when it comes to, you know, practicing. And like I said, it's so many species, so it's going to take some time, but I'm working on it. Working on it for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:19)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I mean,

travel is a great way of doing it. ⁓ and, and I've had a lot of people ask me to join their, you know, their charity or their organization as they go abroad. And there's, you know, six veterinarians and a whole bunch of technicians and what they do is amazing. and I'm tempted to sometimes go and not have to do all the planning and be the main person that that is relied upon. But in the end, I think I truly prefer, you know, these trips where it's.

Dr. Drew Miles (23:46)

Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (23:55)

just me working with an animal rescue group ⁓ or working. mean, obviously work with veterinarians. Well, not always, but I usually work with veterinarians in the country that I'm going to. ⁓ but it'll be just me or just me and my daughter who's not formally trained, ⁓ but as an adventurous soul like I am. So we kind of keep each other, keep each other company and keep each other sane too. And when things are going bad or going really good, ⁓ having that person to cry with or celebrate with is pretty amazing.

Dr. Drew Miles (23:56)

Just you? I agree.

Mm.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:25)

⁓ so yeah, there's, there's a real, there's a real power, ⁓ and value in being the, the leader of one, when you go on these trips, ⁓ and you're forced, you're forced to learn, you know, ⁓ where they'll, they'll present you with a case. And this has happened even at the wildlife place. Cause when I started there, ⁓ here in Toronto, just outside of Toronto, I was their only veterinarian one day a week and they were getting

Dr. Drew Miles (24:37)

I agree.

Yes.

Dr. Cliff Redford (24:54)

10,000 intakes a year, ⁓ know, some massive, massive numbers. And they would hand me this owl or this red-tailed hawk and say, hey, it's got a broken humerus bone. We need you to fix it. And I'm like, I've never, I've looked at the videos now, but I haven't done this yet. Like I'm still, I'm still practicing on the deceased animals. And they said, look, if you can't do this, we're gonna, we're gonna have to euthanize. Okay. I guess I'm going to try. And then all of a sudden, Hey, look at that. The animal's flying.

Dr. Drew Miles (25:09)

Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:23)

You know, I mean, eight weeks later, but, ⁓ it's, it's a great way to force, to force yourself. And, know, I think it's important to know your limitations, but I think there is a problem in the vet industry right now where, ⁓ especially the younger veterinarians are. Afraid to step out of their comfort zone and, and be that one that, that is relied upon.

Dr. Drew Miles (25:24)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (25:49)

what if I make a mistake? What if I can't do it? And it's like, yes, if there's someone who's available, who's better, you need to recommend that. But what if the owner can't afford that referral? What if the owner can't afford a B and C and truly can't do it? Like it's, they're not just, they don't want to, they truly can't afford, you know, ABC. So do it with D E and F and, and, know, you got to at least give it a try, right?

Dr. Drew Miles (26:07)

Sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:16)

⁓ And then people will realize they know a lot more than they than they think they know and they're a lot more capable Than they than they think they are. Yeah, I should I'm gonna connect you with my friend Cheryl ⁓ On Instagram. She's at the maverick vet and she is a about my age. She's a veterinarian She's also a part-time ⁓ firefighter ⁓ She jumps out of airplanes into like the African

Dr. Drew Miles (26:23)

for sure.

What?

Dr. Cliff Redford (26:44)

African desert

and like darts animals and Over the last couple of years. I hope I'm not getting this wrong. I think she got her master's degree in wildlife conservation ⁓ So she's she's a cool chick she She's a cool person and she would be ⁓ a great inspiration for you For sure, but now as far as these trips, so where where have you been? I mean, you've only been a vet for two years. What have you done?

Dr. Drew Miles (26:58)

She sounds like a cool person. Yeah, she's cool.

for sure.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, so I've been, been, I would say decent amount of places so far. Some are repeats, ⁓ cause there know, a lot of the work that I love to do is in South Africa. So I've been to Africa quite a few times. So I've been to several parts of South Africa. I've been to East Africa and Somaliland. I've been to Greece for, ⁓ the Athens Zoo, some Athens Zoo stuff there.

I've been to Thailand, I've been to India, I've been to ⁓ Jamaica for conservation work. And next up on the list is Costa Rica, hopefully the end of this year. ⁓ there's, there's, it's a growing list. I definitely have some places that I still like, like at the top of the list, like, man, I need to make it here. And Costa Rica slash like just general South America, like the Amazon rainforest, man.

Dr. Cliff Redford (27:50)

Beauty.

Dr. Drew Miles (28:05)

I've been waiting to get to Costa Rica and or some part of that. It's going to be super cool. So I'm in contact with some, ⁓ some organizations now trying to get something planned for November because I try and do, ⁓ like one trip every two to three months. Like I try and do like, if I can true per quarter of the year, but at least one per quarter. So I can at least get four throughout throughout the year. ⁓ so this would be my, my final trip for the year. And then I started planning in 2026. So.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:08)

That so cool.

Jesus

Dr. Drew Miles (28:35)

It works out really well.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:35)

that's amazing

Dr. Drew Miles (28:37)

It works out well because my brother, he works for Delta Airlines. So I'm his companion. I just, this only started this year, but I've been able to fly for free these two, international trips. mean, I pay the taxes like 70, 80 bucks, but 80 bucks compared to $2,000 for a flight does allow me to get around a lot more, a lot more frequently, but that's all going to come to an end because he actually just took a job with Ford instead.

Dr. Cliff Redford (28:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Drew Miles (29:01)

So my privileges end the end of this year. So I'll be back to paying for flights. Yeah, I'm trying to knock them out, dude. I'm trying to knock them out. yeah, hopefully, you'll see me in South America in the coming months. And that would be super cool, man. I'm really excited for that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:05)

You gotta get those trips in.

Get those trips in.

Beautiful.

I've done some work in Panama, both outside of Panama City and then in the community of Bocas del Toro. In Bocas del Toro, yeah, so cool. Bocas del Toro, the local turtle conservation group that takes care of all the turtles that hatch, the ⁓ leatherbacks and the hawksbill sea turtles.

Dr. Drew Miles (29:27)

wow, okay.

Okay.

Dr. Cliff Redford (29:47)

They asked me to come in to do a spay and neuter program because all the local dogs were eating their eggs. And Raul, the guy who runs it would be like, Dr. Cleaf, the turtles are dying from the dogs. ⁓ Less dogs, more turtles is what he would say. ⁓ And so we did this spay neuter program in the jungle under this like overhang, no walls, no electricity, howler monkeys.

Dr. Drew Miles (29:54)

Bye bye.

More turtles.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:14)

Howling at us while we're doing spays and neuters. It was, it was a time of my life. And it was one of the few times on my trips where I took a day to vacation and I had to do some surfing because it's so much nicer than surfing the cold, icy waters of Lake Ontario in January. So yeah, yeah. So that was another thing. So again, I'm in Toronto and I had always had, okay, my retirement.

Dr. Drew Miles (30:16)

real deal.

Yeah.

Dude, you surf too? I did not know that.

Dr. Cliff Redford (30:43)

You know, I'd done a few little surfing like on vacation, right? When I, know, 15 years ago where your goal is to get to the beach, you know, that's it. You'd stand up and get to the beach. And I was like, I like this. And I'm like, all right, I'm going to, you know, eventually I'm going to retire somewhere warm. My wife is Greek. So we're going to retire. have, we have a family and a place in Athens. So if you're ever going back to Athens, let me know. and, ⁓ then the pandemic hit and.

Dr. Drew Miles (30:51)

Yeah,

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:12)

I was like, wait a minute, why am I waiting to, to, know, until I retire, apparently you can surf Lake Ontario. ⁓ now the key is though, the only real times there's waves, ⁓ is in the winter time. So we are surfing with like six to eight millimeter wetsuits, full head mittens gloves. look like these giant fat penguins out there.

Dr. Drew Miles (31:40)

Two.

Dr. Cliff Redford (31:41)

or seals and it is it's like 10 to 15 degrees below zero. You have this giant ice beard ⁓ but you're actually quite warm especially if you pee in the wetsuit beforehand. ⁓ And yeah I mean the waves are they're pretty shitty. We joke that they're like hockey players they're they're kind of rough. They're kind of angry. Did I lose you? I think I lost you.

Dr. Drew Miles (31:53)

Yeah!

Dr. Drew Miles (32:11)

Awesome. I don't know what happened there, but...

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:13)

Perfect, beauty. So yeah,

surfing here is amazing. It's cold and it's sloppy, but there's actually a community, like there's a huge community of surfers here. ⁓ And if we're lucky enough, like occasionally about once every other year, there's some waves like Labor Day weekend for whatever reason. And you'll go out there and there's like different parts along the.

Dr. Drew Miles (32:36)

Thank

Dr. Cliff Redford (32:41)

You know, the Toronto, the Scarborough beaches, can go to, can go to Ashbridge Bay, you can go to Scarborough Bluffs, you can go, you can go up to the Pickering Power Plant, you know, where there's water, where there's waves and there'll be 20 or 30 people out there. But most of the time, especially in the winter time, there's two of you. Like there's, you don't have to fight for waves the whole bit. But anyways, I did my first time surfing in warm water, salt water.

Dr. Drew Miles (33:01)

Dude.

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:11)

was Panama, it is infinitely nicer. do have to say it is infinitely nicer. ⁓ But yeah, yeah. Yeah, I saw you surfed.

Dr. Drew Miles (33:13)

It's amazing. I can imagine. Man! Dude!

You have to send me a picture or show me if it's on your Instagram of you in that pull up wetsuit thing that you were talking about, because that seems insane. But I'm actually, I've never surfed, but I am a snowboarder. do, I just started snowboarding this year as well. Maybe it was from the snowboard picture earlier this year. Maybe there was a little bit of a ⁓ fuse in there. They are, and I'm like an addict for snowboarding now. Like I'm so happy that we're nearing the snowboard season because

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:27)

100%.

⁓ why did I think you did snurf surfing? I don't know then.

Maybe. They're very similar. Yeah.

Dr. Drew Miles (33:51)

I've been thinking about it all summer. was just like, can't. So I'm originally from New Jersey. So ⁓ my first time snowboarding this year, I went back up to PA and ⁓ snowboarded on a few different mountains there. But there's actually apparently much better places to snowboard on the West Coast. Like in Cali, in northern parts of Cali, like Big Bear Mountain, much more powdery snow. So that's the first place I'm hitting this year in December. I'm gonna take a trip over to Big Bear. ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (33:52)

But where do you snowboard?

okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, powder.

Yeah, yeah.

Dude, there's surfing

in Jersey Shore.

Dr. Drew Miles (34:22)

Really? I feel like I'm gonna be so bad at that though. I like I've been terrible. Yeah, right, right, right, right, right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (34:23)

Huge surfing. ⁓ yeah.

well, I mean, I hope so. You'd got to suck at the beginning.

I did when I picked up surfing, you learn to how to paddle and pop up on the flat water because the waves aren't consistent enough here. ⁓ and then, so I did an entire summer of three days a week going out there and just paddling, paddling, paddling. Cause I knew a lot of surfers have horrible paddling skills and it, and it hurts them. And so when the first.

set of waves came, I went out and my wife's like, how'd it go, how'd it go? And I was like, I was out there for two hours and I tried to catch 20 different waves and I caught one of them. Like this sucks. Like I am so bad. But now, now it's like I got them all except for one, you know? So you just gotta practice.

Dr. Drew Miles (35:10)

Look, dude. ⁓

That's awesome.

Let me be honest with you though. Many people don't notice about me, but I have a very big fear of open water. I wanted to be a marine biologist vet as well in high school. Like that was something that kind of piqued my interest until I became conscious and realized what is all in the water. And I was like, oh man, I used to go far out into the ocean as a kid. wouldn't leave my parents and come back, come back.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:28)

yeah?

Dr. Drew Miles (35:46)

I had no, I was ignorant to what's out there. So I didn't care. ⁓ So, and then once I got, once I got hit to what's out there, I got really scared and I was like, ⁓ no, I don't want to be eaten by anything or step on anything or, I just don't go out that far anymore, man.

Dr. Cliff Redford (35:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry, man. Give me possibly shark-infested waters with sea anemones and fire coral over the Florida swamps any day. Dude, you're going in there picking up handfuls of snakes in the middle of the night. No, thank you. No, thank you.

Dr. Drew Miles (36:10)

What?

I guess we look at it that way. Yeah. guess you pick your poison there and I, yeah, I can see how there's like even, even look of craziness there, but then, yeah, I'm scared of, right. Different breed. Different breed. Now I said, like, I am down to do some things in the Everglades, but there are people who

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:33)

And just the Floridians alone. The Floridians alone is down in the swamp people are a little... You got to watch out,

Dr. Drew Miles (36:47)

me beat by a mile. mean, they go places that I wouldn't even like imagine going without hesitation. Like I will do some things for sure. Like I have no problem getting into some murky water, but man, these guys and girls, even like guys and girls, both out there, they are relentless. Like, wow. I'm like, it's impressive hats off to them because just certain things. just, I like my life and I want to live a, you know, a long age. I want to get, you know, grow old and see my grandkids and all those things. And you know, you gotta have.

Dr. Cliff Redford (36:53)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

Dr. Drew Miles (37:14)

Calculated risk in order to do those things your risk have to be calculated

to make it up that age man So I'm gonna continue to be calculated

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:21)

Yeah, yeah, that's the good thing about being my age is I don't have to worry about risk as much anymore. My dad would be like, no, this is the exact opposite. My kids are like, how do you, you know, my, my boys do boxing with me occasionally and they did a lot of judo and whatnot, but especially Nicholas trains a lot with me and helps me get ready for my matches. But when we spar essentially, I'm not allowed to hit him in the head. ⁓ I can only do body shots and he can hit me wherever he wants, which

Dr. Drew Miles (37:26)

Right. ⁓

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (37:49)

is not great for his boxing because he wails, he swings with his hook and he has no fear of me popping him with a jab, right? But it makes my defense amazing. But he's like, aren't you worried about your brain? Like I'm too worried about my brain. I'm like, nah, man, I'm, I'm old and these are 16 ounce gloves and we're wearing like us old guys can't hit that hard and we get tired after 30 seconds. So it's fine. But, ⁓ but, ⁓

Dr. Drew Miles (37:58)

countering, right?

Nah. You'll be alright. You'll be alright. That's fair. That's fair.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:16)

Yeah, so you got it. Yeah, I believe it. You got to think about the risks. where did you, who'd you work with in Jamaica? Cause I did some volunteer work there as well. That was my first trip ever.

Dr. Drew Miles (38:20)

Yeah.

So it was actually a vet that I lived next door to growing up. That was actually my first veterinary position as an assistant. Her name was Dr. Tomlinson. I don't recall the actual organization that I went, but she's Jamaican. I'm also Jamaican from my dad's side, but Dr. Tomlinson, she's born and raised in Jamaica as well. So she had some connections or whatever out there, spay and neuter things that she would do out there. And I went with her one time.

and that was super cool. just don't remember the actual organization.

Dr. Cliff Redford (38:57)

Beautiful. did, ⁓ that was my first trip ever. It was a three week trip and it was also to try and catch footage, to try and pitch like a television show, which never really worked out. ⁓ but like we did, ⁓ work with the St. Clair caves association with the, headstart program, which is, where they're, ⁓ rehabilitating the Jamaican iguana numbers, ⁓ up on hell share Hills. ⁓ obviously the JSPCA.

Dr. Drew Miles (38:58)

Yeah.

you

Mmm. ⁓

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:26)

⁓ yeah, quite a few different little, and then the Jamaican, the Kington Kingston zoo, a little bit of work with them. ⁓ but what a cool, yeah, cool, cool place. And, ⁓ same thing, man. I got, I got all kinds of people. I get introduced to you there. ⁓ I should introduce you to the Wilcott family. I need is the main one. he's a champion pro surfer who then became a Marine biologist, but he'll get you in the water. That's the problem.

Dr. Drew Miles (39:32)

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah.

Okay, look, see, look, like I said,

⁓ I'm getting chills just thinking about it. You're right, you're right.

Dr. Cliff Redford (39:58)

You got to face your fears, man. You got to face your fears. There's

nothing to worry about there in, ⁓ in, Jamaica. mean, just don't touch the lion fish. ⁓ you'll be all right. you'll be all right. But, ⁓ I may or may not have tried smoking weed for the very first time on a mountain in Jamaica. ⁓ I may or may not have, and it's not that I can't remember, ⁓ when you're in, when you're in Jamaica, right? Like, like we're literally on top of this mountain and the guy's like, so,

Dr. Drew Miles (40:06)

Right.

Hahaha! ⁓

You

Right, right, right. For sure. You got it. You got it. You gotta do a little something. Yeah.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:28)

Anyways, yeah, that's cool. You have done some.

Dr. Drew Miles (40:30)

there's ever a time to try it,

it's there for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (40:34)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, my first hookah bar ever, Shisha bar was in Cairo, you know, in this back in this, you know, background hidden out of the way hookah bar. was like, you got it. You got to do you got to do this stuff. And I burned my mouth in India. I mean, you got to do it. You got to do it. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool, man. So you in two years, you've you've done more traveling than I have in in 27 years my career. So

Dr. Drew Miles (40:36)

Thank you, sir.

Makes sense. Makes sense.

You gotta do it. You gotta do it for sure.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:03)

You're at a fast start. That's amazing.

Dr. Drew Miles (41:03)

Man.

Man, know, I just, give all the glory to God that I'm just blessed to be able to start this, you know, start my career, ⁓ the way that I had been starting it. And, know, I can just only hope that it continues to grow, you know, ⁓ I'm trying to continue. I said, always look for ways to improve and grow in this field, meet new people, meet new, you know, colleagues. so I would definitely be, for sure be appreciative of any connections that you can offer me. Of course, you being the biggest one, man, we gotta make, we gotta plan something together that way we can, know,

do something, whether be vet related or not, man, I need to come to Canada anyway. I've never been. ⁓ I plan on, I've never, I've never been to Canada, man. think if anything brings me out there initially, it's going to be a Drake concert. I love Drake. It's like my favorite artist. ⁓ So if I, if I do get out there first, it'll probably be for some sort of concert, outside of that, I do ⁓ need to get over to Canada. So definitely we have to set something up for sure, whether it's vet related or not. I'd be more than happy to come out there.

Dr. Cliff Redford (41:39)

⁓ really?

Yeah, yeah, hundred percent. I mean, yeah,

we can talk about it sort of off air at another time, but there's a couple of trips that, ⁓ that, that I'm thinking about and, know, it'd be nice to have one other veterinarian with, ⁓ and, and yeah, anyways, so, ⁓ that was the other, the other reason I had you on this podcast. I'm like, I want to talk to this guy and make this connection. Cause, you know, not that I'm looking for something from you, but you never know.

Dr. Drew Miles (42:12)

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's do it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (42:27)

We've become buds and, ⁓ you know, I'll feel, I'll feel a little younger hanging with you and, you'll feel a little more Canadian. about that? That's it. It's fair. It's fair. Yeah, it's fair. ⁓ so listen, how can people follow you? Can they support you in any of these trips? Like going to Costa Rica, give, give, give all your details.

Dr. Drew Miles (42:27)

Yeah, of course, of course.

Look, ⁓ even swap. like it. It's a fair trade.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so my, name, my handle is the jungle bet on everything, tick tock, Instagram and YouTube. Um, I'm starting to try and grow my YouTube a bit more. I didn't start it this year. So there's a lot of short reels on there, but as far as long form content, I'm still working to build that up. Um, you know, going forward in 2026, uh, a big thing for me, man, as you can kind of see, I'll kind of get up so you can see, but I'm starting my own wildlife clothing brand. Uh, the name is world wild.

and, ⁓ about, don't know the percentage yet or exactly how it's going to work. I kind of just started it this year, but a percentage of the, ⁓ proceeds will go to conservation efforts, ⁓ to certain, you know, organizations, certain countries, things of that nature. So that's going to be big. am dropping that this year. It's trademarked. Everything's like in the, in the works. So, ⁓ super excited to release that. It's going to be some good apparel for you guys. Super fashionable, super, you know, cool, like the back of this is.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:34)

Beautiful.

Dr. Drew Miles (43:43)

⁓ pretty nice here. don't know if you can see it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you got, got some things in the works there. So you guys stay tuned for that. ⁓ I will post, you know, updates for that on my main pages. So yeah, man. as far as Costa Rica, man, I mean, the support just comes from a follow up, honestly, like as far as funding and things like that, I can handle all that myself, but just support and the post to keep on, you know, getting my name out there and, know, making these connections with other organizations. A follow goes a long way for me, man. So that's, that's all I would ask.

Dr. Cliff Redford (43:43)

Get your fit on, Get your fit on. Look at that.

I love it. Everyone, everyone check them out. The jungle vet. think the future is bright with you and the vet industry and leading the way and inspiring people. You've inspired me. So keep up the good work, dude. Excellent.

Dr. Drew Miles (44:22)

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Dr. Cliff.

I appreciate you having me, man. It's been a pleasure. It's awesome meeting you. And I know this isn't going to be the last time that we talk, so I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it.

Dr. Cliff Redford (44:31)

No, a hundred percent. You're going to be, we're going to be bugging the hell out of each other for sure. All

right. Peace.

Dr. Drew Miles (44:38)

Later,