Breeder Contracts

In this episode of VetLife, Dr. Cliff Redford discusses the significance of Diwali and its impact on animals, particularly regarding fireworks. He shares experiences with difficult client relationships, emphasizing the importance of respect and support within veterinary teams. The conversation shifts to the complexities of breeder contracts, vaccination controversies, and the realities of conditions like hip dysplasia. Dr. Redford encourages pet owners to make informed decisions about their pets' health and to foster kindness in their interactions with veterinary professionals.

First, if you haven't watched my film and live in Canada (or have one of those VPN things), you can watch it here:

https://youtu.be/oMUx3yuyznc?si=oagpg7bGnpbuyXlJ

Be sure to follow me on Instagram @drcliffworldwidevet.com and on Twitter at @drcliff_vet
Listener questions, episode suggestions, or if you have a good idea for a guest, email me at dr.redford@vet905.com
Additional information can be found at drcliff.ca

Transcript

Dr. Cliff Redford (00:10)

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of VetLife with me, Dr. Cliff. Happy Diwali everyone. This is coming out tomorrow. So Diwali is today. So happy Diwali to everyone yesterday. It's been three years, three years that Emily and I and my good friend, Diego, producer, director, writer of our film went to Hyderabad, India to film our documentary.

With the backstory, I guess, of Diwali and us experiencing the Festival of Lights, but also that the Festival of Lights have a bit of a dark side when it comes to animals. Pun intended. That the fireworks and the noise and the lights and the odors, even the smell of the burning candles, or not the candles, but the crackers, as they call them there, cause a lot of negative impact on animals.

Take that into account everyone, whether it's Canada Day fireworks or the volley fireworks, et cetera, et cetera, that this world is being shared with us by the creatures around us. So please be kind to animals ⁓ and be kind to your veterinary healthcare team. That is a very awkward segment to this story about me firing a client. ⁓

I probably have to fire a client once every six months, maybe. It seems like there'll be like, I'll have two or three within a couple of months and then nothing for a couple of years. Maybe it's that I learn to catch the signals early and I, so I either sort of educate the client about the expectations of the way they they're going to treat us. And then they either quit on their own or they, they improve their behavior and then we work.

great together. And then the time goes by where it's been a while. So I haven't had problems and I start to forget about it. And then, you know, I sort of let things escalate, ⁓ before nipping in the bud. don't know if this story I'm going to tell you about, I don't know if this. Pet owner sort of gave us signals. ⁓ and I was too slow on pulling the trigger, but, ⁓ I did eventually.

tell him to take a hike. There's a gentleman, we're gonna call him Gary. It's not his real name. And Gary's dog's name is Buddy, not his real name. ⁓ And all I remember is Buddy had a wound on his tail. It was like a ruptured cyst. And it needed, it needed surgery.

But I don't think we'd seen him. I think he called, I think we hadn't seen him for many years. And even when we had seen him years and years ago, he was a bit of a see you next Tuesday. He was a jerk. If I remember correctly. And I don't, mostly because once I deal with these things, they're dead to me. Like I don't, I don't think about them again.

That's why I still have a lot of my hair. I was going to say most of my hair. I still have a lot of my hair at 52 years old.

And, ⁓ anyways, so this gentleman made an appointment to come in because of a wound on his dog's tail. ⁓ that's what he said. Maybe he thought it was a tumor, if I remember correctly. Anyways, I just want to tell you, I just want to read you some of the medical notes, ⁓ here. So this is done by one of my technicians entered into the file, ⁓ a couple months ago.

the 6th of August in the afternoon. And she wrote owner walked in after me at 7 30 AM while I was unlocking the clinic lights were still off. We open at eight. This technician was coming in quite early, ⁓ probably to deal with some work, right? Get things, get things going ahead of time.

So he was there more than 30 minutes early. Whatever. That's good. I asked him to leave and he did and waited outside of the clinic. informed him I would come get him when we were ready. Owner then walked in after AC, which is another teammate, around 7.50 AM. Lights of the clinic were still off. I asked how I could help him. He mentioned that the patient had a wound on his tail.

I informed owner of our exam price and he told me that I was ripping him off. I told him I would remove the booking and we didn't have to see him today. And he said, no, I'm still coming. I will see you later. ⁓ Look, first of all, the team doesn't set prices. So you got a problem. Talk to the veterinarian, talk to the owner. That's me. A lot of see you next Tuesdays of the mail.

form, ⁓ they like to women. ⁓ And they don't talk to the male vets or the male owners the same way. ⁓ don't know female veterinarians who own clinics out there, or maybe just female veterinarians who don't own clinics. ⁓ Is this a vet thing, you know, that they're nicer to vets? Or are they just nicer to owners? Or do you also have to be a man?

probably with this guy, it was both man and owner. Otherwise he wasn't going to give you any sort of respect. but good on, good on, ⁓ KV is our initials. Good on KV for saying, look, we don't need to see you. you, this is our price. We don't need to see you. We're happy to see you, you know, so make a decision, man. ⁓ and of course he said he was going to come in.

She already could tell this is going to be a problem. ⁓ Anyway, so then another, so this is from another teammate. When speaking with the owner, it was very rude throughout the entire appointment. When going back to speak with owner about prices regarding blood work, owner responded with, why do you guys have so many reviews claiming that you are money grabbers? Why? Because that's what people complain about.

I don't know what our Google rating is, but apparently it's quite good. I don't know because as I've talked about in this podcast before, I don't read them. I don't read bad reviews and I don't read good reviews. That's, that's the rule. I just don't look. ⁓ I just keep doing the work I'm doing. I take care of the patients to the best of my ability. I'm, I'm honest. I'm compassionate. I'm a hard working. make recommendations and a benefit of the pet. And I work with clients if they've got financial.

sort of limitations ⁓ as to the best of my ability. Anyways, why are we money grabbers? ⁓ Because money pays our bills, pays my technicians and my front team staff and my other vets and me and everything else. ⁓ Okay, so. ⁓

Anyways, then they, and then, ⁓ and then, and then this person said, attempted to explain to the owner that I would not have this conversation with him, but would discuss recommendations from the veterinarian owner then stated, no, you should have this conversation with me. So this is he's, he's giving a, again, he's, he's bullying this female non veterinarian. ⁓ about situations that have nothing to do with her, right?

Her job is to assist the veterinarian and to communicate sort of recommendations, not talk about money, but explain to the owner. So I explained to the owner that as a technician, I do not make prices, but I can discuss with the owner. Owner then said, I should calm down and that this is what's wrong with your generation. Owner states that he would like a second opinion. Informed owner, that's okay. Informed owner that at this point, it would be best to continue care with another member of the team.

Again, good on her. ⁓ if she's listening to this, she knows who she is. ⁓ I support my team. If they really feel like things aren't going well, they're, they're able to calmly and professionally stand up for themselves. And if the person is going to keep pushing, ⁓ then they, they just say, Hey, maybe you should, maybe you should go talk to somebody else, whether it's here or at another clinic.

Owner came to the front to settle up and multiple times repeated that the brown girl in the back was a B. Except he used the actual B word. He called her a bitch. ⁓ And was she new? And that she was woke.

⁓ all right, that speaks for itself. We were trying to help put the cone on his dog, but he was aggressive and didn't like being touched. This is what it says in the record. Repeated that the front desk people were the only competent or helpful people in the clinic. And that the only reason he would come back called the back members, B words and bitches at multiple points. So this is in, this is in.

This is in quotations. So actually when my team puts it in quotations, because sometimes people swear and when they swear, we pretty much tell them to get the fuck out. We don't say that, but that's what I say behind closed doors to my team. Tell them to get the fuck out if they're going to be that way. Just don't to say, you know what? You can, you can go, just go take your drugs, just go, whatever's going on. Just go. But when they put it in and then they say, well, you know, I say, put it in the records. What was said? Well, but he swore. Okay. Put it in quotations.

You're putting in quotations. You're saying what he's saying. You're not using bad language. Like I just did 10 seconds ago. You're saying what he or she is saying. Let's be honest. It's mostly gentlemen who talk this way. ⁓ definitely compensating for not being hugged enough or whatever. ⁓ so this actually means this guy was using, he was saying B word that Brown girl is a B word. ⁓ beautiful.

Maybe he meant beautiful. I don't think he meant beautiful. Anyway, so this guy's been a big jerk. Um, and so we had, we had said, okay, we're going to send you, we're going to send you an estimate, et cetera, et cetera. As soon as I found out what was going on. So we're done. I'm not even trying to correct this guy. It will never be a, a positive working relationship. Um, so I sent him an email.

And I wrote, dear Mr. Etc, etc. As the owner and hospital director here at Wellington Vet Hospital, I am emailing you to formally state that I am closing Buddy's file permanently. I do not allow pet owners to speak rudely to or of my team members. We will not send you a surgical estimate and will not follow up on how Brody is feeling. You are not to utilize our services in the future, be they routine visits or even emergency visits.

You are not permitted on the premises and I will instruct my team to not engage in conversation with you. Should you call us, do not reply to this email. If you wish to say anything in response, you can email me directly at dr.redford.vet905.com. I am sure I have made myself clear best of luck finding care for buddy. Dr. Cliff Redford. I always make sure I, you know, emphasize the doctor when I'm talking to people on the phone.

You know, and, in the very rare circumstances, and this is a very rare circumstance, 99 % of our interactions are wonderful. 1 % are a little tense. Most of those is just emotion. We're, we're patient. People often apologize. Um, uh, if it's sort of bad enough, they'll apologize. If it isn't, if they were just a little bit cantankerous, then they're just in a better mood.

Afterwards and that's fine. We get it. ⁓ but when I'm talking to them and, and, I recognize there might be some sort of question about our abilities or our ethics or whatnot, and I'm dealing with a potential complaint. I'll make sure I answer the phone with hello. Dr. Redford speaking. And I'll sort of hit that doctor a little bit more firmly. Maybe I'm compensating for something too. Who knows?

Anyways, this guy did end up emailing me and, and spewing off how, ⁓ horrible a couple of team members were and that my business will never succeed if I have, if I hire people like them. ⁓ and then again, he kept talking about the wonderful, well-spoken, well-educated, ⁓ front staff that he was dealing with.

I do not think it was a coincidence that the people he was shitting on were not white and the people up front that he was talking wonderful things about were. So let's say we dodged a bullet, but we kind of took a ⁓ non-fatal hit because this stressed us out. This was hurtful ⁓ to my team and I apologized to them.

We're having to deal with this. ⁓ anyways, I wanted to bring this up because, you know, veterinarian team members, and to a lesser extent vets, they got a hard job sometimes with dealing with the public and. know, be kind to animals, be kind to each other and then be kind to yourself. ⁓ and as Dana White said, ⁓ after the wrestling guy drew.

mentioned, if you don't love animals, you're a prick. As Dana White closed out that interview, I encourage everyone to listen to it a couple ⁓ episodes ago. Don't be a prick. ⁓ And this guy was being a prick. Anyways, this is not what I was going to talk about today, but it was, ⁓ you know, it's part about the life of being a vet, right? And I'm going to try and do more stories like this. So normally going to be very positive stories. This one today is not really going to be a positive story. It's going to be educational. It is a frustrating thing.

The veterinarians and vet techs and, we all have to deal with. And that is specifically in relation to breeder contracts. So a breeder contract is essentially. You buy a dog from a breeder and it's almost exclusively with dogs. ⁓ you buy a dog from a breeder and they have this contract and it's basically.

Although you own the animal, you paid for it, it is your animal. If you do not follow A, B, C, D, E, F, G, we will not support you if something goes wrong with this animal. So I guess it kinda makes sense, right? If you're not taking care of your car and your car breaks down, then the warranty isn't voided, right?

But in, or the warranty is voided, but in those situations, the things make sense. You got to go X number of kilometers every whatever, two months, whatever it is, you got to go and get your oil changed. I don't know what it is because I just followed the recommendations. And my Honda Accord is 10 ish years old now, 180,000 kilometers and it's running beautifully.

doing better than me. ⁓ that's not true. ⁓ we both had some parts replaced. ⁓ but the, situation with this is people come and they, know, like they love their new little puppy and they have some concerns because a lot of the things that are in the breeder contract are going to be against what the veterinarians recommend. So we're just going to start listing some of these things and hopefully, you guys find this interesting and educational.

The first one is regarding vaccines and we're going to specifically talk about Leptosporosis vaccines. So there are a lot of breeder contracts that say if you vaccinate your dog for Lepto, I'm no longer going to, this contract is this warranty for your dog, this health guarantee they call it is null and void. And so right away I say, look, if you don't want to vaccinate, I get it. This is your dog though, it's not the breeder's dog. You're going to have to make him.

a decision Mr. and Mrs. Smith about what Fluffy needs. So then I just go on and I explained to them, okay, so Leptosporosis is a bacteria. It is common in about 60 % of all raccoons. It's in their urine. Raccoon pees on your garbage can. Hours later, your dog comes out, sniffs the garbage can, they pick up Leptosporosis. Now in a large percentage of situations, they fight it off and they're fine.

But in a not insignificant number, they get sick and it causes kidney infections and liver infections and, and, and can be very, very dangerous. So it's much easier to prevent than it is to treat. And in very rare cases, even more rare than them getting sick, they will give it to people and people will get sick, ⁓ and can be very sick. Like we can have some permanent kidney damage from Leptosporosis. Now look, I've, I've diagnosed and treated.

100 dogs with Lepto. I've never once gotten sick. do a lot of wildlife work. I'm sure a bunch of them have Lepto 60 % of them for the raccoons anyways, foxes, stuff like that. I don't get sick. and I'm not very good at like wearing gloves when I'm handling urine. I just wash up afterwards. So I'm sure I'm putting myself a little bit at risk, but whatever. ⁓ so I kind of go on to say, look, this is a real disease.

I recommended it. give it to my, my pets. and then I'll go on to explain a bit of the history of the Lepto vaccine. So about 25 years ago, I graduated 27 years ago, about 25 years ago, Leptosporosis had the highest rate of vaccine reaction or, or adverse event is probably a better, more technical term because it's not always an allergic reaction. that's a very specific immunological sort of, ⁓ process.

So an adverse event vomiting, diarrhea, severe lethargy, prolonged fever, all kinds of stuff. ⁓ puffy face. ⁓ you know, I joke that, ⁓ if the animal starts speaking Swedish, only Swedish and call us, that might be an adverse event. ⁓ they start speaking in tongues. and, and the Leptovaccine. So it had the higher rate of adverse event and.

Compared to all the other vaccines, still a low percentage, but, not insignificant. And it wasn't very effective because there's different sort of zero vars. There's different.

types forms. like every year the flu is a little bit different. Well, there are different serovars of Leptosporosis. At one point they were counting in the 20s. Now there's primarily only about four that are really problematic. And so that stopped using Lepto and at the time that was the right choice. And then it started to come back, at least in Southern Ontario it did. We weren't seeing it a lot.

you know, et cetera, et cetera. So why vaccinate for it? And so I could understand the breeder saying don't give it. But the problem is, is a lot of these breeders that have this in their health guarantee are older breeders or they were trained by older breeders and they don't recognize that things change. And Leptosporosis came back and the University of Guelph did some great studies to determine what were the four or which serovars were the dangerous ones. Turns out there are four of them and they created a new vaccine specific to those four.

which still has a higher vaccine adverse event as others, but it's minuscule and it's so, so rare. So I just tell people this and I said, you know, so you have to decide if you want to give the vaccine. And then I go on and I answer other questions. and I say, before you decide, let's just talk about everything. And then I'm going to talk to you about the problem with these, these health guarantees in general, because they don't want to break the rules and

You know, they're trying to find things that work, do right. And, and, and I get that. So another one is just vaccines in general. You can't give rabies until they're six months old. Okay. Well, that's a problem. Cause now you can't go to dog parks. You can't do grooming. can't do boarding. Animals should be getting their rabies vaccine around 14 weeks. Give or take a tiny bit. or it has to be a three year vaccine. Well, it doesn't matter. You give a three year rabies vaccine.

as their first vaccine, regardless of their age, they could be five years old. If it's their first rabies vaccine, it only works as a one year period. That's the way the science work. That's the way the studies work. That's the only thing the Ministry of Health is going to recognize. CFAIA, if you're going across the pond, across the ocean, you're traveling somewhere with your pet and you have not followed the protocol.

You know, they have issues with that. And then they'll say, ⁓ you got to split the vaccines now splitting the vaccines. do recommend splitting vaccines because we follow aha. American animal hospital association recommendations, split the vaccines if they're five pounds or under regardless of age. And what that means is let's say they're getting a distemper parvo group of vaccine, which is all one sort of one needle, one vaccine with several distemper hepatitis parvo par influenza. We've just called distemper parvo.

and then Lepto kennel cough and rabies, let's say we will actually split it up and we'll say, we're to give you half the vaccines today. Come back in a week. We'll give you the half in a week. We're not going to charge extra. ⁓ and if someone wants to do that for a 20 pound three year old dog, yeah, that's fine. we don't mind doing it's a little bit of extra work for us, but we're just, we just want people to be happy. so, so there are some, you know,

things that the breeders are requiring that I just don't agree with, like avoiding Leptose specifically. ⁓ And then others where, look, you your 20 pound Rottweiler puppy can handle all of its vaccines at three or four months old. ⁓ But if you want to split them, we're happy to split them. That's not a big deal. It's a, it's ⁓ it's a win-win for everybody, right? You just want people to feel comfortable. ⁓

And then another one is related to hip dysplasia. So hip dysplasia, everyone knows, anyone who knows dogs knows that term, but they don't actually know what it means. And hip dysplasia is a condition, a developmental condition. So it occurs when the puppies are growing ⁓ and stops being an issue once they're fully grown. Because what it is is basically the hips are growing a little too fast for the body.

And the, the hip joint is loose. so dysplasia sort of means poorly developing and. What a lot of breeders don't like to admit is it's primarily genetic. We're talking 90%. There's a tiny bit where food plays a factor. There's a tiny bit where exercise plays a factor.

Um, but primarily it's, genetic now. So this is where exercise and food come in and I'll go and I'll explain it in another podcast hip displaces specifically, but the breeders will say. You have to feed an adult food, even when they're a puppy and you cannot let them climb stairs, et cetera, et cetera. If you do this, if I have reason to believe you've done this, how are you going to prove the dogs climb the stairs? I will not.

honor the health guarantee if your dog is diagnosed with hip dysplasia, which may not happen. Like we can't diagnose hip dysplasia pretty much until they're about a year and a half old. guess if it's super severe, you'd see it earlier, but to X-ray and clear a dog, certify it against hip dysplasia, they've got to be fully grown. So depending upon the breed, depending upon the certification ⁓ protocols, it's anywhere from a year to a year and a half.

is the earliest you can diagnose them or clear them from having hip dysplasia. and the thought process is, is if they're getting in-balance nutrients, especially too many nutrients, too many calories, they grow too fast. The hips become dysplastic. So the thought was let's feed them adult food because puppy food is more calorie dense, but it just doesn't work that way. ⁓

You know, a dog, a puppy needs a thousand calories, let's say. Um, obviously it's breed dependent and age dependent, et cetera, et cetera, activity dependent. But if they need a thousand calories and they get a thousand calories from adult food, they're eating a lot of adult food, which means they're actually eating too much calcium and phosphorus, which can then stimulate, uh, hip dysplasia. Again, it's primarily genetic.

and then the other thought is exercise. If they have pounding exercise, so run, run, run, run, run while they're developing, can over-stimulate the bones to grow. ⁓ now stairs are actually not pounding stairs are good because it builds up the muscles without putting stress on the actual bone. and having thick hip muscles reduces the sort of.

clinical significance of hip dysplasia. So they're just wrong. They just don't understand hip dysplasia. and, and so that's a, another common problem with their health guarantee. ⁓ and if you feed them adult food and when they're a large breed puppy, they should be eating large breed puppy food. If they're eating an adult food, it's actually detrimental to them. So there's a problem, right? ⁓ another issue is filtered water. I've actually seen some saying you have to feed filtered water.

Because this breed, I've seen dogs who don't drink filtered water, ended up developing kidney stones because there's too much mineral in the water. It doesn't work that way. Maybe it doesn't people, I don't know, but it doesn't work that way. So you do not have to feed filtered water, ⁓ like for crying out loud. Our toilet water is cleaner than, you know, probably

60 % of the world. Maybe not that high, but there's definitely developing countries that would love to be able to drink our toilet water, let alone the water they're getting out of a tap. ⁓ So things are okay, you can have your little fluffy dog or your big German Shepherd puppy drinking regular, regular water just out of the tap. That's what I drink. ⁓

And then, ⁓ you know, that's sort of, actually that's sort of the big ones on the list. ⁓ and here's the, the kicker. Then I'll say to people, look, you know, I've listed all these sort of concerns. I'm going to support you in whatever you decide, but you need to make an informed decision. And then I say, what happens? Let's say you follow my recommendations and not the breeders.

And by now they're already saying, you're the vet. I'm to follow what you say. But I say, let's just talk about this. So just so you feel more comfortable. And maybe I should just stop right then and there, right? If they say, okay, we're going to do it. But I want them to feel more comfortable.

What happens, I'll ask them, if you break the contract, if you make the health guarantee null and void, or better yet, I'll back up. Let's say you do everything perfectly. You follow the 100 % to a T. You're getting your oil changes at the right time. You're getting the tires switched over at the right time. You're doing everything, right? Doing everything for your car, doing everything for your puppy.

Well, in a car situation, if you're following everything right and something breaks down that's covered in the warranty, they fix it and they cover the fees. Maybe they just cover parts and not labor or maybe they cover labor and not parts. It depends on different factors, but it's laid out there. Great. the car companies do what's necessary.

That's not what happens with puppies. If you follow 100 % the recommendations, the requirements of the breeder and your dog develops parvovirus or develops leptospirosis, these are all vaccine preventable diseases, or develops hip dysplasia or a heart condition or whatever, cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Do they pay? I'll say, does the breeder pay for fluffy to get better? And they go, ⁓ I'm not actually sure. Or they know what the situation is. And the answer is no, the breeder will take fluffy and give you another puppy. Now I'm saying this to people who have often only had their dogs for two or three days. Not once has I had, have I had somebody not go, she can't take my dog.

This is my dog. I'm not giving him fluffy back. I always say she most breeders are female. That's just fact. And I don't have any more or less problems with female or male breeders. A lot of breeders are amazing, but there are certainly some that are in the dark ages when it comes to some of these treatments. So the reality is, and this is, this is totally fair for the breeder. Like the breeder can't.

They are in a business, some of them, the business is like a soft business that they really, really do love their breed. And they're doing everything can to protect and to improve the breed standards and have healthy puppies and cute puppies and nice puppies and whatnot. ⁓ But some of them, it's a business, you know, or all of them, there's some business component to it that's understandable. They're not money grabbers. That's only veterinarians, according to ⁓ Gary. ⁓

And, ⁓ so they can't, they can't be paying. So they just give you another puppy. And so then what I end up saying to the owners is if you're not going to do that, if you follow everything perfectly and then fluffy comes down with one of these conditions and you're not willing to give fluffy up. Recognize this is going be months from now, but again, two days later, two days into owning fluffy.

Having them in their family, they're like, this is my dog and they're emphasizing the my, it's part of our family. We're not giving Fluffy back. I love Fluffy. Can't live without Fluffy. I got the next 15 years with Fluffy. ⁓ so if you're not going to follow the, the contract, what difference does it make? Why follow it if you're not going to utilize that sort of health guarantee. And that's just.

You know, if, if we needed to seal the deal, that seals the deal. So what I recommend to anyone out there who is getting a dog from a breeder, which I get, ⁓ Thalia's from a breeder, our Labradoodle. ⁓ she's probably one of, trying to think, I've probably gotten out the last 10 dogs. Two of them are from breeders. The other eight were rescues. Hate me. Do what you want. I don't know.

⁓ so when we had these exact same situations with our breeder and I warned my then girlfriend, now wife about it before we even went there, I said, look, there's going to be this and that they're going to talk about this and that we're just going to nod our head. And that's what I recommend. You say, okay, I understand. Yep. No problem. Filtered water. Yep. No stairs. Okay. Yep. I get it. I'm going to sign here. I'm agreeing to this health guarantee and then just do what you want. It's your puppy.

You get to make the decision it's health is, ⁓ is your responsibility now. And if you're not going to utilize that health guarantee and hand over your puppy to get a new one, then why even follow it? If you don't think it's necessary. ⁓ you know, I had one person say that they would get sued, ⁓ that the breeder had a contract saying you will be sued. If you,

If you don't follow it, they can even say you'll get sued. If you breed this dog, it doesn't, it doesn't hold up in court. That's the reality. And I think the breeders know that they're not going to take you to court, but, ⁓ you know, if I buy a car from somebody, I get to do what I want with that car. If I want to paint it purple and stick Hello Kitty stickers on it, I can do that. If I want to, you know, replace the engine and

put in a lawn mower engine, I don't know, I don't know much about cars, but I'm allowed to do what I want with my car. And the world sees the courts see pets as chattel, as ownership. You are allowed to do, as long as you're not hurting the animal, they can't force you to not breed the dog. You shouldn't breed the dog. There's enough puppies out there. But either way.

You people get worried and then usually by the end of the appointment, they're like, yeah, this doesn't make any sense. Look, you're, you're the vet. We're going to follow your instructions. Okay. Great. ⁓ so that is my 20 minute rant, 25 minute rant about breeder contracts. ⁓ I get it. The breeders, they think they're doing what's right and we got to appreciate them for that. ⁓ but, ⁓ they're wrong in those situations. The ones I listed, they're wrong. I'm sure there's some others that are, that are right in certain.

things they require, ⁓ but they're simply wrong. ⁓ get the information, talk to your veterinarian and very healthcare team. Be nice to your veterinary healthcare team, especially the vets. Yeah, you can be nice to us, but we can handle a little bit more if you're, if you're a less pleasant. ⁓ And ⁓ then make your own decision, make an informed decision. And if the veterinarian.

team and vet doesn't sort of support you in those decisions, then go and find another vet. ⁓ you know, I don't have to agree with what my clients feed their pets. a of times I don't, ⁓ I, I give them the info, they appreciate it. And then I say, look, pardon me. I say, look, ⁓ okay, that's it. Like we don't, we're not, we're not going to.

berate you here because you're feeding raw food or something. ⁓ Look, here's the concerns and let's proceed. ⁓ And people appreciate that. Our job is to help them take care of their pets. ⁓ Our job is not to force them into certain things. So, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. A little bit calmer. We've had some really cool guests in the past. We've got some really cool ones coming up in the next few weeks.

next few months even it's just going and going at doors have been opened, which is fantastic. ⁓ and, ⁓ I guess that's it. So be kind to animals, be kind to each other, be kind to yourself, be kind to veterinarian team members, be kind to breeders. They know not what they do. I just can't give it up. I'm always poking the bear. thanks for listening and have a great day.