Beyond the Table: Claiming Space in Uganda's Civil Society

What does it take to claim space in Uganda’s civic landscape? In this episode, civil society actors discuss closed doors, power imbalances, and the strategies grassroots groups can use to make their voices heard and influence decisions that shape their communities.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Hall of Pain podcast organized by Flamport Uganda. My name is Esther Awur and I'm a lawyer and I work here with Flamport. With me today I have beautiful ladies. I can't wait to hear what they have to tell us today. Amazing smiles, ladies, and amazing voices. Today we are under the theme claiming space. How can civil society organizations, especially women-led, claim the space? Today, our main objective is to look at some of the opportunities, the challenges, the barriers that come with both the traditional and the non-traditional civil society organizations that are women-led in this country. So for those of you who do not know what traditional CSOs are, that is civil society organizations, those are organizations that have existed for quite some time, but also are informal structure. Whereas the non-traditional civil society organizations and those that may have an informal structure also existed for lesser period of time compared to the traditional ones. But also this would be youth-med organizations and all those marginalized organizations that you can think about. So to kick us off, we shall have these ladies introduce themselves, tell us who they are, so that we're not asking ourselves who is this, who is this talking and all that. So I think we'll start from let's see, okay, my minutes. We'll start with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Thank you, Esther. Hello everyone. I'm very, very happy to be here.

SPEAKER_05 1:38

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah, yeah. Um, my name is Sharifa Chibi Rango, and I'm an executive director of a beautiful organization called the Center for Rehabilitation of Survivors of Acid Attacks and Bans Violence. So I work with people that have been banned. Uh um my civic journey started way back over seven years now. Wow. And uh worked on youth. I started with youth and health policy, and that was around 2018-2019 when we started working on the National Youth Manifesto, the East African Youth Policy. I was part of those processes, then National Adolescent Health Policy. Yeah, we're part of all those processes, and all that experience has told me that policy starts with listening to the realities of people it is going to serve. But also, I've been so much into community engagement, gender justice, youth advocacy, and public policy, engaging in community and manually and national decision making. Wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

So many policies and people.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

So hi everyone, my name is Rachel Tafumba. I work with the Women's Programmer Initiative as a legal officer. Uh so I've been working there for a year now. But uh just quickly about Women's Programmer Initiative, commonly known as WPI. We are a feminist-led organization and uh we are really just working towards a just and equitable um society. We have all girls and women in the diversities, a few of all forms of violence. So, how we get to do our work, we do um legal aid work, we brand legal aid clinic, we do a lot of work around research, and we've done a lot of research work around, say, um, marginalized communities, uh, we've done research around policies that have been put in place by the government. So you can look at say analysis of the sexual offenses bill, analysis of the marriage bill, and um the AHA. So that's some some work we do around research. So we also do um public interest litigation, where we generally look at issues that are um uh constantly happening in specific communities, and then we reach out to the people that have been affected, and then we take on the money, so we go to court and we argue all these cases. So maybe you've had about us around the polygamy case, you've had about WPI, we do the diapers case where we challenge the taxation, the increased taxation on adult diapers. Um we have cases on abortion that are ongoing, and yeah, so we do public interest litigation, research work. We also reach out to universities and do mentorship sessions. So we have brand back sessions at Kavendish and the International University of Istanbul. So ideally, we just want the conversations around women issues running around every place where women's voices are existing. So be it in schools, be it in government spaces, be it in um educational institutions, we are there and we're doing the work and we are just excited to be here. Wow, so many words!

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Um good day everyone. Good day, everyone. My name is Chiorego Danita Karungi. I work with Uganda Women's Network. Um, just a bit about Uganda Women's Network. Um, we are, like the name says, under women's rights organizations, um, 32 years old. We were um formed in 1993 as Uganda was going to work to be represented in the Beijing platform for actually 1995. So the idea was that women's rights organizations in Uganda all should have one solid directed voice, right? So that we are represented in a unified manner. So we had a number of organizations come on board in 1993, some of them are still existent, you have ACFOD as one of them. But our membership has brought right now. We are 24 member organizations and 13 individual members. Women Cobana Initiative is one of our member organizations. We have Theater Uganda movements of ideas to have representation across different files from technology, disability rights, um, legal aid, whatever it might be, and to also have the individual voices come through regards to the needs of women. We're also a recession advocacy organization. Um done a little work around the Domestic Violence Act, right now the social offensive bill, the marriage bill, there's a coalition and groups in which we're a part of, and a little advocacy work around that. We also do a little research. Um, every election period we produce what you call the National Women's Manifesto, a research on the needs of women in the country for the forecast of the next five years and what our priorities should be like as a government system. Um so Uganda Women's Women is a very diverse organization. We have um we've had organized shelters in what to do out of our access to justice. We've had GDP shelters in Kamuni and Namutunba districts running for over 10 years. Um and yes, so I also work with umoja women's Iran, which I think needs to come out because this is um something about informal and traditional organizations. So Moja Women's Ran is something, is a coalition put together by a number of women's rights organizations, FEMFOD Women's Revolution Initiative, ONET, to look towards sustaining our own funding as a country. It starts with Iran, and the run pushes awareness, and the awareness pushes local philanthropy and continental philanthropy. Um so this is where I stand. As an individual, I've worked with a number of organizations aside from ONET that do in menstrual justice, women's leadership and communication, and I look forward to doing much, much more work in the women's space.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Interesting, interesting. We want to start up and do an immigration, but unfortunately the speakers may hinder us. Let's say it's everyone else here. You had everyone is doing something in the women's space. So we're going to begin with the first uh elephant in the room. Yesterday I was uh I was watching a clip and they said it was an animation and there were animals in the room, and then they said, we'll start with the elephant in the room. So they started off. Everyone in the room is knowing no one is actually claiming the space. And what space do we want to claim as uh women organizations in this country? What is claiming space?

SPEAKER_01 8:33

So I think that it's important for us to understand that the civil society organization space is our white space and we are all doing different things, but at the end of the day, for you to be able to hold for impact in the communities within which you work, you have to kind of have a space you occupy. So I think training space is really asserting yourself within the civil society space to be normal for what you do and to be unapologetic about how you're doing it, right? It does not necessarily have to be the everyday norm when you're doing things, but like you stand out for what you do, for how you make it later, and you are constantly having conversations around that you do. So when they talk about women's rights, they should be able to think about your organization because that is something that you have assigned yourself to be known for. That is your niche. If you are saying that your niche is around technology, that should be it. And everyone within the civil society space should know that that is what you do. So I think claiming space is really about making sure that at the end of the day, a conversation around your work cannot happen without your organization being made, known or handled in that particular conversation. So I think to me that is what claiming space looks like.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Okay. How about in the global context? Because now sometimes we're giving things to okay, just the women organizations as we speak out, but in other spaces, say the governments, the policymakers, yes, and all that.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah. Yeah. So like I said, um, as long as you are known for this particular work in the civil society space, that is where your connecting channel starts. So when people are in parliament and they have a conversation around women's rights, can they be able to say that, oh, we think that uh can do that, we think that WPI can lead on that in that moment, in that particular like second, can we think about the organization first? Or do people have to like sit back and then like Google and look for organizations that do that particular kind of work? So I think that at the point where you claim your space within the civil society organizations, referrals are like automatic. They tend to just happen for you in that in that sense because you have made yourself known for that particular thing, right? So I think that is how it starts, and then you just keep on growing up until you are in whatever space you intend to be in.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Wow, wow, wow. Let's first hear from how the non-traditional looks like. How is claiming space?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

For me, I think um as as us and how we identify ourselves, we should use a smart strategy of claiming spaces in a way that you know like you've talked from global perspective and government perspective. You've seen where we feel like our spaces are hard, but the way they represent us is misrepresented. So for me, it's more of following up on what government or any other spaces are working in terms of our race as us, as women, but also being able to participate in decision-making processes at all costs without being judged by further receptive and appreciated in whatever capacity that I am to me.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

That's how I see well, well, it's not okay. I'm interested in that over 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Um I think the journal is a bit different. I think we stand on um in a manner that we were behind or ahead of different traits organizations. There are a number of them that will kill us, so our journey is not a man that's under traditional the way we have to validate our colours and we have to um we have to justify our existence and what way we're putting together. Our existence of different organizations and individuals have an organization. And that is something that comes into clearing the space. When we have that organization, we need to have a position on what is going to be something we understand because that is not a fancy. We need to convince people that you want to value, that it isn't necessary, that you want to be well, that you have the capacity to do it and the knowledge. Um why would we have to do that as an organization? As a traditional or a non-traditional organization that you study on has to be. So we need to create a space. We're just like claiming the space. It involves an argument. First of all, how do you make these spaces somewhere someone feels comfortable studying it and continuing it and being happy in? It is not just the aspect of okay, um, it's not automatic that your work will allow you to access spaces that people now think of you. There is a lot in you of groundwork that has to be done in regards to proving your results. So, how do we make it easier to prove themselves? They have good work, but how is that good work? Um, how is that good work being view and had? Um, and more than that, how is that good work being sustained? Because claiming spaces cannot, the conversation around claiming claiming spaces cannot be had without the prospect of resources. Whether resources be people, would that be money, would that be spaces? We have had claims that you know in certain civil society spaces, um, certain they keep to their traditional groups and individuals and persons, and it's very hard to penetrate those spaces. So we need we're talking about an organization of let us make these things happen. As long as someone stands for the cause, as long as someone is doing the work, why are we not giving them the opportunity to exist? Why are we not extending an education?

SPEAKER_02 14:36

It is as easy as it is, it's not as easy, but it is a great starting point. Okay, so now coming back to you, Danita, uh Femfort is organizing this particular podcast under the local leadership lab, that is the LL project. And the answers as to why we actually called it claiming space is because we wanted to understand what kind of spaces exist that actually need to be claimed in the first place. And for somebody, as you're hearing some of you, we hinted on some of the barriers that um are preventing certain organizations from actually existing. Um just help us understand what are some of these spaces that you think should actually be claimed.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Okay, great. And I'm going to come at this from two angles: the angle of the angle of the Uganda Women's Network and the angle of module manager because I feel like that's very represented here. Um, like I say, module. Um so when we speak of the spaces, we speak of spaces, what will be in a room? Like being in a room is a lot, it's actually a lot. Some people are blacklisted so far never over and over again and they cannot hear you. You will go to an organization over and over and over again and they will not hear you. You will go to a coalition over and over and over and they will not hear you. Being in the room is of course, yeah. But more than that, having the platform to interact with those that can give you the resources to continue. When I speak of this, I mean from to from multiple angles. Your fellow CSOs, um, the donors or which majority.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

I think there's some people here who don't understand CSOs. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

GBB, sorry, civil society organizations, the WPIs, um, the Venvoards and whatnot. Um, the government of Uganda, as women's rights organization, our ministry is the Ministry of Gender, right? But it is not as straightforward as me walking up to the Ministry of Gender and saying, hi, I'm running this really nice project. I would like you to just come on. It's a bit monetary support. I would just like you to, you know, endorse my project, review it, validate it, say that it is good because that carries weight. That actually carries weight. It is not necessarily football. I realize it as you know, all of us were working on this run, on the water run, the endorsement of the Ministry of Gender went a long way in opening certain doors for us. It just really put it in perspective, but more than that, I've in the differ in the work I've done in traditional CS or you will receive a partner, particularly those that are in the corporate space, who will ask you what is your relationship with the Ministry of Gender? Is it something you appeal to or is it something concrete? And once you say it is something concrete and you can prove it, all the doors that open to you. And these doors are not just space, they're not just um maybe you can attend the utility, it is monetary support that's a fortune before that project is suddenly available. It is access to individuals you never had access to before. But more than that, when we speak of spaces, there's an angle I think we really need to bring in, which is that of the space to understand how to run your organization. A lot of us start from a point of goodwill, to want to do something, want to do something great, but we don't have the resources in regards to the knowledge, the know-how, the technical know-how of how to do these things. We don't know how to fundraise, we don't know how to manage our accounting systems, we don't know how to manage our monitoring and valuation systems, we don't know any, we don't know how to run a run write a conception on sometimes. And that's okay because you're starting and you're starting from a good place. One of the spaces we need to claim, one of the spaces that needs to be existent, is one that is accessible, one that is available to teach us how to run our organizations and to run them well, especially as we're starting. So for my, it's those three angles the accessibility to individuals and spaces, being in the room itself, and helping us understand how we can manage ourselves in a way that actually is tangible and profitable to us as an organization.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

With non-tradition, it's a bit complex. And I feel like the way Karunda explained it is more, it more benefits the traditional spaces. But with non-tradition, it's really complex for because it comes with security, the type of space you're in, for you to be heard. Like she explains, the space at that particular time, we should know how to collaborate with certain individuals for us to be heard. Sometimes it just takes one individual because they categorize us in very, very different ways. And when it comes to governments, even if they know we belong in different categories, they will turn us into one category for them to pass whatever they want to pass that is in their benefit and their interests. So for us as non-traditional organizations, I feel like we need to first of all know how best we can be heard. Through who? In one space, through who? How do we speak out to these people to hear us? So it's really a bit complex, but if we learn from best practices, what works and what does not work, and we match them together to gather best strategies of finding the spaces, I think it would work more that it we are still learning. We are still learning and we're still fighting for those spaces. You get so if when it comes to non-tradition, it comes with a lot of safety. How where do I speak it from? And seeing see how we can collaborate with traditional established roles to hear and put us in their spaces, which is still very hard and still a challenge that we are facing.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Yeah. So now Rachel here is going to help us understand a little bit. She's had from Donita and Charitwa, and I'm sure she's cooking something in her head. What tell us, what do you understand?

SPEAKER_01 20:50

So I think uh the majority of what the space looks like has been has been discussed by Donita quite extensively. But then, like I had initially said, the space is ideally people. Yes? So you are trying to penetrate these people in terms of how much you can utilize our capital, in terms of the people they know, so you know that at the end of the day you're going to apply for a grant, but that grant decides to who can recommend you and all these things. So I think that those people that have for a very long time been wanted to establish this particular space to be the voice of consensual. So when, for example, say Honorable Miriam Materi says something, it's easily going to be taken as what the rest of the organizations are saying, right? Because they consider hard OG in these things. So I think that at the end of the day, what is important is, like Danita has said, these people that have been able to establish the space that we all so desperately want to be a part of should we make sure we think so. Accessible, yeah, with people just unbeat to this. Let them be able to tap into the data and experience that you have within this space that you've established, right? But then let them not be so much of the particular organization that keeps us into thinking, oh okay, these are traditional organizations, so they ought to work together. If these are non-traditional organizations, they ought to sit together. Now, because I feel like the way that what we're trying to do penetrates around like experiences, the diversity of women is like why we are all trying to contribute to the same thing, gender justice, we're all trying to contribute to the same thing. Equity, we're trying to ensure that all these gold is regarding this, she's working with assets like she's still trying to ensure the access justice. She's trying to see that they're free from violence. I am working probably from like a very legal perspective. It's the same thing I'm trying to do. Anita is trying to bring organizations together, right? So she's still trying to do the same thing. The end person that we seek to benefit is that woman that can come who so desperately wants to be happy to this. So how do we try to not formalize it so much and make it look like, oh my god, yeah, if you have tried to this specific what you do logically, what you do in this logic, and try to ensure that at the end of the day it's like all two data, can you guys be able to do ABC and each with understanding questioning? Well, I'm coming from because they understand the struggle is the same. Yeah? So for sure we understand that the structure is the same, it makes it easier for us to work. Because these formalities just obviously they're going to realize studying restrictive organizations or studying non-traditional organizations saying we're feeling left out of the space, we feel left out of the space, even if organization X is organizing the creative idea of getting an invitation because they don't understand us what we want to be understood. So, how do we go to understanding that the struggle is a sin, and regardless how people are doing it, they're still doing it for the same thing. How do we incorporate what things work, what open and what rights for high is doing to ensure that we are all speaking to the struggle? Because if we overorganise this, technicalize it, it becomes undesirable because there is a reason as to why probably organization ex is what we just sucked. Like you have to understand that there's been like technicalities that such individual is a seat at the table. Why is it that the formalities to join such any state formations are very complex?

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yeah, how do we make it easier for these people to come and work because the struggle is saying it's actually a big total like those big big customs and let's have the spaces? But especially the big question comes in. Are you aware that sometimes these people are in working our spaces? They actually know we exist and they know what we do and what we stand for. But even with the spaces and they are they are not sweet and comfortable enough to speak for our face.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Speaking of people, that's a point for us coming to you for the screen with me. I actually wanted to come to you and ask what is that you see the non-traditional CSOs? She's mentioned one of the in terms of formalities and all these uh structure and all that stuff. What are some of these things that you think really hid the non-traditional CSOs from getting a chance of claiming a space that we are also keeping up with?

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Uh first and foremost, we are non-traditional. What have seen social experience and what in the non-traditional personnel and restroom CSOs? There is a lot that you like in terms of capacity. We'd like a lot of capacity. And there is a way as I think it's also very there is a way as non-traditional research organization and as a taken. We don't have the information. Yes, I want to fix this space. Do I have the necessary letter to access the space? You might think we are fixing every CD. What is the evidence? Where is that proof? Yeah, for instance. So what is preventing you from getting the data? Um, this is finding, but also established schools have used us to their interests to get what they want, what do I say? Let's say government. Government can come up with a program and they use us together that they want. You'll find that let's say we're discussing, when you go to a hospital, in a referral hospital, pre-commerce hospital, it is always when you look at gender, there is male and female, but there is also other categories. But when they disseminate that data and put it over to the is always disseminated in male-female, so you'll find that some data is missing, what about associated with the LBQ you get? What about that data? That data misses of course in most cases in terms of government problems. You get. So by the time it comes, they have already worked from they have already gotten the opportunity. By the time it reaches to you, you have reach us to take up the space and take up that opportunity, that is also another barrier. But they are also not really wisted in capacitating as a research organization to be at the level where we think there is building more trust. You know there is this thing, there is a free easy and there isn't. Yes. Yes. How about they put in more capacity to give us the capacity to show us how things work for them? Because we find that even when it comes to learner and finding, there is more trust in all the fables in and the other fables in. So how about we collaborate and work together? So that's when these opportunities come in. The trust grows from them, collaborating with us and giving us those faces and claiming them and giving us the capacity to be fully confident to claim the spaces.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

We subgrate them or we call or we work in our software, or we want to apply with them for the grants, so that you know what happens in this. We tend to, I think we do this in 38 districts, or 48 or 30 districts and utilities and the beauty of content is the continuance of the work. When we leave the district, we love that there is still some grant, because first of all, continue to apply to have the grant to continue their work, but they have the capacity to do so. We have been able to establish structures in which we're able to refine the people in different districts, like, or you can work with this organization. If you're a survivor, you can reach out to this short-term organization, or you can reach out to this organizational psychosocial support. So we always work within networks to end to necessitate that. So when Sharifa says that the aspect of organizations working individually is a problem, it is actually a very, very big problem. There's this misconception that the space is too small. At work, we always say that if we went and did maybe an outreach or we did a project in Wakiso district and we worked in five sub-counties, and in those five sub-counties, we reached out to maybe 1,000 people each. That's about 5,000 people, right? There are still about 20,000 people left in that subcounty that we have not touched at all. We have not interfaced. We do not know about exactly and this is a country of 44 million people. The space is not small. In fact, the numbers are not enough to deliver these things. We need to operate in under the angle that the that uh every organization has relevance because the numbers necessarily it's it's like this thing of we don't we have too few doctors um and so many patients, or we have we keep on saying we're receiving so many lawyers graduating every year, but where are they going? The need is there in this country, the need is there for CSO. Now, how do we work together as a as quote-unquote established organizations to go ahead and um and make sure that there is continuity in our work through capacity building and actually but there's another aspect to this that I really have to bring out smaller organizations suffer in the aspect of getting that first grant is a problem, yeah. Getting that first grant being trusted even with two thousand dollars. So when you partner with an organization like let's say UNEM FEMFOR, that have had years of work that they have done, it validates your work on an to a whole other level. If we do work around helping people, just open that door, that first grant, that first project, we have done phenomenal work in this in the space that we're operating to help organizations prosper. On a secondary level, um you had mentioned Omoja. What uh I think the distinct model is in Omoja is that we reached out to a number of organizations, regardless of whether or not you're a traditional organization, a non-traditional organization, because from the women's rights angle, I I always say that the women's rights battle has been won based on numbers. Whether the numbers are visible, whether the numbers are invisible, that there are people in different spaces of the country of the world moving on with the same agenda is an is uh is a phenomenal uh it's a phenomenal aspect. It's something that is uh quote unquote revolutionary, um, so to speak. So when we speak of that, I I do think this is a model that uh might be that would be um replicated by a number of non-traditional organizations. If you can't find the traditional organizations, find each other. At the very least, find each other, see what you can pull in regards to resources, see what, okay, this person knows this person that can capacitate us together on accounting systems, on MIE systems, on whatever it might be. If you pull those resources, those resources might be someone has social media strength, but more than that, look beyond our barriers of uh associating only with traditional organizations. We have been able to establish, I think one of our most notable partnerships in Omoja has been with Uganda. We were really, really struggling a lot in regards to visibility, and actually to some extent we saw that, but that's not the point. In regards to visibility before we approach them. But in regards to that association, we got to we were able to fill in our gap that we had. Now one post is enough to get 5,000 people viewing a cause that you had 20 people, and the 20 people are working with okay. You got to look at the gap exactly. So we need to look, and I always say this at once, but we need to look beyond our traditional spaces, look to corporate spaces, look to individuals that care. Um, there are certain social that there are certain social lights, like they call them social lights, who actually care for causes. And you find them and you work with them. It's not easy, it really, really is an easy temple, ask you for money, temple asks you for where you are, temple, ask you for. But in the end, if if you just find one person, it really, really goes a long way.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

But that's like what's a the biggest barrier? You still watch us the people that we trust can actually fight for our natural and not comfortable and confident and solid enough for to speak it out and talk about organizations.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

So I think um I don't know if any of you is aware of like general database that has organizations, what they do, and like what uh they are able to overhold it. I feel like the URS based limit a bit different. You would have to specifically look for it to like like I want to. I mean like a database that is able to like. I know we are not very much into this grouping thing, but like we know that when we we are looking for women's rights feminist organizations for this is at least so you know that okay, maybe these are the traditional ones, these are the graduate ones, these are the CBOs, but okay, these ones are working with persons with disability, these ones are working with trauma victims. Like I feel like we need something like that at this point in Uganda. We have very many organizations that have been around. Some of them you've never heard of. You've you've seen instances where you organize a meeting and someone comes and they rejust as an organization and you're like, oh you're trying to find out what this organization does what they do. So I feel like that is very important for us at this point. We need like some sort of uh database that is formalized, yeah. That ensures that at the end of the day, when you need someone, you can easily reach out to them. But also, I think that organizations should tap more into the existing coalitions and consortiums, but they can also go ahead to form their own. Because you say that when you are organization X alone, it's harder for you to penetrate that in spaces. But if it's like an umbrella of organizations that are doing the same thing, when you applied for the grant and there is a need for you to establish a portfolio and existing portfolio, you might not have it, or but three of the organizations that exist have it already. So you already have uh that um added advantage in the sense that you will be able to tap into that same grant or that funding that exists by just existing as an umbrella body. The politics within that umbrella body are not for discussion today. But what I think is that uh you might not have the capacity as a smaller organization, but I could say to leverage on the uh potentials of each other and just utilize them because uh it's going to take forever for us to have a conversation around oh, we don't trust them enough, oh they don't trust us enough, or we don't do this. They want to shine over us, they're not tagging us and that was those conversations, you know, those conversations will continue to exist. The point is, are you able to establish yourself in the space to accept that you can impact the people you claim you want to impact? If you are to go into the politics of, oh no, if we partner with this organization, if we are over China, they're going to do this to us, they're going to do this to us. Remember, the people that you're supposed to represent, those people are suffering because you as the ED, you as the boss, you have said, uh-huh, we are not going to ask for help. Me, I'm not going to reach out to person X person Y. But like at the end of the day, like I said, the struggle is the same. And if we constantly start to remember the fact that the struggle is the same, we are going to start looking at things differently. It's not going to be, oh, she's a young feminine. I don't like how that's happening. We're still speaking to the same thing. We're not speaking to maternal mortality. We're just speaking to the uh to the issues that we have around access to say abortion. We're just speaking to those things that we're going to do. She is, then she is my friend. She's not my enemy just because she is 20 years younger than me. And now you're saying, Oh, I don't like how these younger feminists do their things. They they are always radical, they're always like trying to, but we built systems, we did this. I think the conversation should go outside the politics and focus on the struggle. If you can find two more people that are in the struggle with you, go with those two. Don't wait for certain organization X to give you that blessing for you to be able to like pursue what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 40:19

So now I have a follow-up question for you, my Rachel. So, Rachel, we've spoken so much about non-traditional uh uh civil society organizations, and I think we should also throw more light also to the traditional ones because I know they're also facing some challenges here and there, even on a global level. Um, in as much as the traditional, the non-traditional ones are when we put like a scale, they are suffering more. Suffering more. But the traditional ones are also suffering. So, what are some of those challenges that you people are facing in traditional spaces?

SPEAKER_01 40:54

I think but uh when it comes to first of all claiming the space, I think with most traditional spaces they have tried, they have gotten somewhere. There are certain organizations you are sure you'll find out of an event that has been organized for like you don't even have to see that guessing stuff. You see that you you see that concept note, and you're like, I know, I know some of them this organization is coming, right? So when it comes to being known to establishing that positions, I think most of them have done like uh quite the job after putting themselves there. But like the the conversation is still going to go around and around and around, but then the issue comes back to sustainable funding. That traditional organizations have they have the capacity, they have the experience, they have all these things. But the issue of sustainable funding is something that is uh not to be looked at lightly because uh, like I said, our work is dependent on how much uh money we have. Like, okay, people have goodwill, people volunteer, people will do these things, but you need a certain level of funding for you to be able to do that. So Lenita has put together a thing for us that uh is about funding, bureaucratic uh process or registration government tightens everything with a process now.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

They have they scrutiny and the NGO bureau is what they want to know the type of what you do. You have they have to audit what you do at an annual basis. Because now uh uh the last time when I was there, they are planning to start giving what you have before and registration annually or after like auditing what are you doing? Is it in line with what you told us that you're doing? So I feel like as as non-traditional uh civil society organization, it it puts us in a safety bracket how we say.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

So then I'm gonna ask, I'm going to ask you a question. How then, um, in as much as this whole bureaucratic and all that stuff, what kind of ideal um world would you want to live in as an untraditional organization? Um do you because again, we need to understand that why maybe URSB is having all this uh uh follow-up and what is sometimes people create organizations and it's just there, right? They're not doing anything, but also sometimes people create organizations and they're getting funding from the organizations and using it for things that maybe may be contrary to what the organization was set up to do. So then I'd ask what is your ideal world that you look at for an organization to start up, for example?

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Like to start up or like to operate. To operate me, I think I don't know if it's government or what, but government should should like cut on the bureaucratic processes and situations. I look at having a space where women, young people, survivors. Are free to come to decision-making tables without being judged, but rather appreciated and they are received the way they are. That's what I look at rather than being what do I do? What do I believe in? That is me, it is a human right. So me, I look at us, I hope that we achieve that in the future, but me, I would want to see us being all together, let it government what accept us the way we are, involve us in spaces. We have good ideas, we have good decision making, good decisions that we can put on table and can help us move forward as a country and as individuals, not just looking at what is happening, but we should also look at the future of the country. The world evolves and changes every day. Okay. Yeah, so we should also look at that. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

So Danita, I'm going to come back to you. Darling. What is your ideal, ideal space that you look at? How a non-traditional or even a traditional civil society organization can operate in this country.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Okay, great. Thank you for that question, Asta. And I want to come to it, but I also want to supplement something in regards to the issues that traditional organizations are facing. When we talk about getting in the room itself, traditional organizations also face that problem on a global context, right? This manifests in the angle I've been invited for this conference. Um I've maybe luckily the entity that invited us has paid for our tickets. Sometimes they might not even pay for our tickets and we might not have the resources to cover that. But then the visa application process will you will be grounded in this country till kingdom comes. Your visa will come after three months after the event has happened. And what is the what is the what is the and what is the point? What is the essence of it all? Um countries are becoming more nationalistic in their funding. Um when we speak of that, we mean that first of all, we we saw this year the largest, largest donor funding cut, I think, in in the history of donor funding. I might be exaggerating things, I don't think I am. We lost, we we we lost as a country, I think, over one billion dollars in funding, just like that. In a few, not even a few months, but someone woke up in the morning and the next day, people had lost jobs, people had lost access to medication, people had lost access to their life-saving services. When we speak of sustainability of our work, especially as women's rights organizations, there is something in regards to the criticalness of continuity of all our projects. You're not going to go and change, let's see, FGM in with a 12-month project. It is not viable. It requires to talk to the leaders, then the wives, then the mothers. Everyone has to be involved. There has to be mindset shifts. When funding is cut, even for a traditional organization, then continuity of that project, you're back to ground zero. In fact, you're back to a negative because now you're viewed as a threat. People have room to think of you a bit more from a threatening angle. So you've come back to a negative standpoint. So Rachel was um talking, speaking to the think piece that I was talking about, or that I had written. And one of the aspects that I elaborate on in that is that we must look towards local financing as an but not just local. I don't by local, I don't mean chisasi, I don't mean Kampala, I don't mean Uganda, I mean continental funding. We must look into how to pull resources. Last year we put Africans, as Africans, put together 9% of all the funding that we used on the continent. On the continent. 9%, 9%. At least 91% we were bringing in things from all the rest of the world. It is it is deplorable.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

We are very rich as Africans.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

We're very, very rich in theory. And in okay, in practice, it is there. We we see the gold. Sometimes in the airport, if you feel strategic, you might see something being that's not different. That's a different conversation. Um but what I'm trying to say is that there is the aspect of funding that must be talked about. It's something that affects us across the board. It's something that affects the consistency of our work, the ability to access spaces on a continental level. But more than that, when funding comes in, there's an aspect of do I also get control about on how this is implemented? Right? Do I get we have had conversations a few months ago I did research on underinvestment and women's rights organizations? One of the things that came out of that. Fairpod was a part of that. And um one of the things that came out was the idea that someone, a donor, would decide that women in northern Uganda um need lube as opposed to food as a starting point. So you're going to give a community and you've decided that what you're going to give is lubricants for widows who have lost their husbands, people who do not have food, and they're asking you, but we can't even sit and listen to you, and we don't, this is not contextually relevant. We need to be able to look as organizations and see and decide what our problems are and how to solve them. There needs to be that trust, the trust from donors, the trust from the government, the trust from CSOs amongst ourselves, but also in ourselves, that we have the capability to implement these projects and implement them well. And we need to have the ability to sustain these projects. Longevity is the only way we are going to be able to get to a point wherein we say that in a year we have maybe I don't have to say it would sit unrealistic said there will be no domestic violence case. But we can't be having 12,000 cases in a year. It is madness. It is madness. So what I'm trying to say in summary is that the financing aspect is one we need to speak of a bit more. So when we look at an ideal world for a non-traditional organization or traditional organization, mine comes back to sustainability of our work. How I think if you take time to just look at some of the grant calls that are put out, the direction in prioritization has shifted entirely. If we look at GBV, traditional GBV, it is being funded like this. Sprinkle, sprinkle. But we would see tech facilitated GBV that is in trend. People find things that are in trend not necessarily what is happening in the ground, climate changes or conversation, valid, valid points, but we still need help. The things that we the other people are running are no less valid. So ours looks into continuity of our work. How are we continuing our work in 10 years? In 10 years, I on a personal level, and don't quote, okay, quote me on this, please, for my biography. On a personal level, I see donor funding will have dropped exponentially in the next 10 years. And if we as Africans do not think on how we are going to finance our own work, how we're going to empower people economically so that they can also finance our own work because you're not going to fit pull from an empty cup. The cups in this country are far too empty. In fact, they are dehydrated. So we need to empower ourselves economically, figure out that question.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

So in in terms of empowering ourselves economically, what are some of the things that we can do to empower ourselves economically?

SPEAKER_01 51:30

So Danita does my cobalid point about the fact that we are moving towards the non-existence of donor funding. So we did um an analysis of the Trump executive orders and the effect it had on women's rights organizations in Uganda still accessible on our website. So the the thing is when you look at which website is it for the Women's Initiative website. So we have um an analysis of uh the effect of Trump's executive orders on women's rights organizations. So the the conversation that runs throughout is that one, it's not necessarily a shocker that this happened. Yes? So that means even if we were to say that, okay, maybe like if I say this person left power and someone else came in, that will be a change, right? So we we then say, oh, that's hope that after five years, after ten years, we might have some funding. So there's that inconsistency, right? That is bound to exist. The conversation is solid that we're going to get to a point where they will keep narrowing what they can invest in, what they are willing to give you money for, but you as an organization, you cannot keep narrowing the scope of your work because that is what you set out to do, and you're not going to continuously um mutate to to be able to adapt. So if they say they want someone who is doing climate justice, you're going to change a bit of your work to make sure you have an like some sort of climate funding work. So when it comes back to organizations themselves, I know that we run non-profits, yes, but some of the organizations we had when we're doing the consultative meeting were telling us how they are moving to starting like business arms of their organizations to ensure that they have something. So there's one who was telling us about how they were wearing chicken on like uh a commercial basis to ensure that they are able to fund their work because they realize that UNAIDS will go, you said we'll go, these guys will go, these guys will go, these guys will go. But then the people that you serve are not going anywhere because remember, the greatest part of work that CSOs do is work that governments are not doing all the government. They compliment, they compliment. So they are complimenting government, and to a certain extent, they are even the only people doing the work. Yeah. So that means that even when the funding goes, the people you serve are not going anywhere, they are still existing. So we need to start thinking about how we get to making profit, not from the non-profit organizations. The non-profit organizations should stick to providing for the needs of those people that we serve. But as an organization, you need to sustain yourself because a one-man organization cannot do the work you've been doing because you have had to lay off staff. So we have to consider.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

But also, how can we empower our communities? Not to be solely dependent um on, say, the civil society organization. Or will this be getting you out of business? Because you see, because again, it's one thing for us to say uh we are going to help maybe the people in my yuge district um handle their pads or whatever projects that we have in, let's say in my uge district or in Wakiso, right? And then these people are used that say uh FEMFOT or uh Women Provenor Initiative is going to always be there to give us this kind of assistance, right? So, how can we empower communities that even where donor funding is cut, like you said, went uh the beginning of the year and it's normal funding shelters in uh UNED have been closed, some shelters have been closed. So, how can we empower our communities to not be dependent on us? It's like our parents when we're growing up, and then you get to a certain age, and then they say, Okay, now we have please grow, yeah. They throw you out there.

SPEAKER_01 55:28

I think that it's important for us to appreciate the fact that the structures within which we exist have made it possible for this to be continuous. So when you talk about the fact that all organizations fear to do that because they think they'll be out of business, I don't think that's the case. Because you see, if that was the case, I think there wouldn't be more organizations starting up right now, right? You realize that the need for people to be dependent on CSOs is not entirely tied to the fact that they are not able to access spaces where they can be able to afford their unsanitary paths, structures that exist right from government level up to the grassroots is what is making it hard for those people to be self-dependent. The conversation has to shift because we cannot start saying, Oh, um, because government has a responsibility towards us as people, right? But the government has made it so hard for us to be able to not depend on them. So, for example, the conversation around sanitary towels, you will realize that organizations every time they do a recharge, they will be trying to buy sanitary towels, buy sanitary towels. Why is that? Look at the pricing of sanitary towels. Honestly, look at the pricing. There's some government that can wake up one day and say, We're going to charge you 200 shillings for OTT tax, we are going to charge you this, we are going to give this investor a tax holiday, we are going to do this, we have has never come up to say, okay, for the next two months, we are going to have sanitary titles subsidized to say to the point that I can access it at 1,000. We've never had that conversation coming from government, but women go through menstruation on a monthly basis, some for two days, some up to seven days. But if you somehow, if you're not having the conversation around how they can be able to afford, yeah, you cannot say that, oh, we are going to empower these people to self-sustain. Systems are in place to make sure they cannot be able to change their narrative. I cannot wake up one day and say, okay, I will not take the free sanitary towels that I'm being given. Even a person like me, who ideally is supposed to be educated, has some company and whatnot. If I go to a place and I'm over free sanitary towels, I'm taking them. Don't tell me that. Because that is how bad it is, right? If you look at things like, say, um access to water, very basic, government is the one supposed to be doing this. But you're going to find that it's organizations that are going on ground to ensure that people can access water, people can access clean water at that. But still, the conversation is the same. It starts at government starting to take its responsibility towards its citizens more seriously. It's not about what they're doing in parliament, but how what they're doing in parliament is impacting the people on the ground, right? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

But like I say, it's it all comes back if we can all sit together at one table, young women, youth, and survivors, and we contribute to policies that are serving and responsive to our needs as a whole. It starts from right from local government to national level. You will be able to sit in rooms in government budgeting processes. Every there is a government budget that is allocated to every sector. If they follow the processes very well, and we are allowed to sit in those processes and we give our decisions and we give in our priorities. Trust me, they are very these issues are not big for government to cover for us. So it all it all starts with government. Allow us without being judged, but receive us and accept us to participate in budget planning processes. You will see that when budget allocates resources, it will be responsive to our actual needs.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

But like you see, Danita Tony are claiming the space. Being in the room matters, but the effect of the content you share in that room appearing in the final also matters.

SPEAKER_05 59:37

Because you will see that some organizations have had that space.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Some organizations have been able to go to parliament and have been able to speak to these things. But when the final city is, yes, the audited tax, but then you see the conversations around the marriage bill, the sex process bill, organizations were there. WP has there, UNET was there when we're having conversations around the marriage bill. But even just how the conversation flows, you get. You see how these guys are like, Yeah, we've just brought you here so that it's on record. Yes. That you we consult organizations. But what we are going to bring out is about the those in favor say aye, those words like you get. So I think that it is important that when you give these organizations a space to speak to you as government, you take their input as serious as you can possibly take. Because these are the people that are on the ground, these are the people that are doing the work that you have constantly acted like as if is not your work. So I think that we need to be able to demand that beyond just being given a space, we should be able to hold governments accountable for not including our inputs in the final product. Because then why did you balance in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Okay, now I have a follow-up question for you, huh? Uh the government notwithstanding, because we also have the issue of the traditional and the non-traditional CSOs existing in the same space. And so, and you gave a point on uh collab on uh collaboration or joining consortiums. So I'll ask you a question then. How does collaboration and accountability on your end look like? Uh the traditional and untraditional, but even when you speak about government actors, how does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Okay, so I think that um when you talk about accountability and collaboration, it starts from one, the organization itself. Do you have accountability mechanisms that are transparent, that are reliable in the organization itself? Yeah. Are you sure that if um say you are running a project, we trust that that project has been able to benefit the people that you claim it was meant to benefit? So as an organization, do you have self-accountability mechanisms that exist within you if you do great? At collaboration level, if you've collaborated with an organization X, right, do you have systems? Let's say when you are signing that MOU, did you specifically speak to accountability? Who is holding who accountable here in this partnership that we've gone into, in this consortium that we are in? Who is holding who accountable? Do we have checks and balances to ensure that when certain organizations are doing things that are contrary to the cause, we can call them to order? Do we have those systems that exist? Do we have um say, do we, do we, are we able to say that, okay, this organization is constantly giving us space to represent organizations, say with government? Can we be able to say that we as a women's movement we we are no longer comfortable with that organization leading space because they are misrepresenting us? They are not speaking the language that we are speaking. That is the kind of accountability. But at government level, which I don't necessarily think exists, but are we able to call out government and say we told you that this is what was going to happen if you left this particular tax existing on diapers and then government doesn't have to meet, and then we're like, oh yeah, chill, we shall wait when they bring another bill. We go back to them again. Same government, same tactics, they are not going to change anything. But then what is the accountability mechanism that exists between us and government? Because I don't seem to see it, I don't seem to understand how it goes. Are we just happy to be included in the space? Are we just happy to be there working with, speaking with government? But then when government fails on its part, we are like, yeah, so yeah, we understand the politics, we we understand things are hard, things are hard, things are hard. Let's wait. You know, we have this committee, we are expecting them to come, so let's wait and see. Do they even come for these meetings? Anyway, that's another conversation. So don't need to be able to do that. So much anger.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:51

Do you want to beat us at this point? Can I add to this?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Um, but I also want to speak to the angle of you you asked a question in regards to I forget, I for and I forget that there was a previous question you asked before. All right, in what regards to what organizations can do in regards to the sustainability of our work, particularly in a communal level, how do we make sure these communities are not dependent on us continuously? And I think whether deliberately or undeliberately, whatever it might be, we have created a system of dependence. Like it's it's it's actually reached a point where um without this individual, without this person um being in a certain space, right, we believe that we cannot do anything as a community. It's as little as transport refunds. This is a personal thing. If I cannot expect people to show up in my space if there is no transport refund, but there is valid discussion, there is valid progress being made in that space, there is valid input and output being made, then we have created a system where it is problematic, it is not sustainable, our work will not reach anywhere. And going back to the community aspect of it all, our programming needs to shift. It needs to shift from okay, I have a community where girls cannot access school because they don't have pads. Okay, we're going to give them pads for this amount of time, maybe three, five, seven months. But in that amount of time, how are we empowering their families to make sure those people are elevated from poverty? Proper, proper elevated from poverty and cognizant of the fact that they have to provide for their daughter. Or you know, this might not the whole provision of their daughter might not take seven months because it's a mindset shift. But we can create especially with numbers, if you are saying that every community you're working with, these maybe the mothers in these organizations are going to be part of a the mothers in these organizations are going to be part of this this um money. Making projects that you already have running, right? They're going to be employees, they're going to be um they're going to be co-owners of it. You set up a system and you provide people with a way to make money through that system, right? Then that's that's it's a it's a good really, really good starting point. It's not going to be sustainable for us to keep in communities um for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

Just to cut you short, I want her to give hers as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:24

What do you think? For me, it's about assumptions. Before you you you you introduce yourself to a community and you say you want to do this. Is it their need? What if it's wrong? You guess. You should also understand the people that you want to serve in. Get to know, first understand yourself and your culture and what you want to bring to these people, then understand them. Once you understand them, you'll be able to collaborate with them. And whatever you want them to do, they will do it wholeheartedly with love. And that way they'll be able to be sustainable. We should take away all that narrative they have to be given. But the way you approach the people also matters. Yeah. So it is the benefits they are getting. Impacting them is showing them the good they are getting in what we're bringing to them. And this is how I've managed to work with survival diversity and bans violence. We have an education fund, but when we take up a child, we take a child, one child per family, then after we put them on a literacy program, economic literacy, take them. This is what we expect to. We give them independence to learn on their own. As we're taking up your child, we tell you it is for two years. After two years, we want you to be able to take up your child, and it has worked. We have given them services, literacy skills, services, digital literacy skills, how can you utilize whatever you have, available resources for you to use, maybe replicate and generate income from any resources that you have in your community. You get. So as you go in communities and so we want to impact their lives, we should also understand their culture, what works for them, for you not to just impact what you have on them. Yeah. That way they'll be able to work on sustaining themselves and moving forward even without donor funding.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Um, our time is getting fast spent. So, our final, my final question, and you'll say it with your parting shots to our audience is um what advice would you give to somebody who wants to start up, for example, um a traditional or non-traditional um CSO civil society organization in Uganda in terms of how can they be included, who can they reach out to, what can they tap into in order to get their voices heard in order for them to be able to claim the space. This could also be advice given to the organizations that are just coming up, that are growing, like Danita Umoja, that is just coming up. So, yes, you could answer that as you give your parting shots.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:02

Um, I would say based on my experience, because um I've been part of the Network for Active Citizens. We are the people that started Network for Active Citizens after Rutherford Council, like Enders. We started Network for Active Citizens. But one thing is I would tell anyone starting out like a grasshop, especially the non-traditional organizations. Take your time, do not rush, take your time, learn, relearn, and learn and understand organizational dynamics, it will save you from a lot of regrets. Invest in capacity building and service delivery.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Yes. Give us your parting shots as we end this because I've not come back this side. After they are done, we're done.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:58

I think that's all. I don't have much to say. Thanks so much. I'm very happy to be part of this podcast. It's really been engaging. I feel like I've claimed my space here, been able to speak whatever I want to say to you. And whatever you're doing out there and you want to start something, feel free to always reach out. Feeling for Taz Mentors. We do. Yeah, you can reach out to me and ask me anything in concerning capacity uh organizational capacity and development systems you need in place to have a fully fledged organization in terms of registration policies for some those are some of the barriers that stop us from gaining opportunities. So, in terms of policies, strategic plans, reach out to me. I can help you with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

Yes, through us, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

Yes, if you want. Oh, please go ahead and finish line. Okay, so uh I think uh as we conclude, I am not going to be as as hard to I put it, love it. So uh Sharifa is an easy, she's such an organization, she knows how organizations start and how they go through it and everything. I think that when you start an organization and it's meant to help a certain group of people, one I think you have to invest so much in understanding that group of people that you are going to be working with, that you want to impact on, so that it's not really like a blanket cover, you claim you're working with this organization, but if they asked you about them, your knowledge is just as good as what Chat GTP could give all of us. Understand the organizations within what you are within which you want to work, but also understand their needs so that you're able to craft your solutions specifically for their needs. Like uh Sharifa said, assumptions are not good because that is where the issue of sustainability comes from. So today we're going to be doing climate justice, the next thing JBV, the next time you're doing this, you need you're doing this. Understand your work. And I think that is, for example, one of the ways we have been able to continuously impact the communities we work in as WPI. We understood that there was a gap when it came to legal aid, service, access and provision in Uganda because of the costs and whatnot. So we tapped into that and we realized that there was a space. People need legal services, people need legal advice, but they cannot be able to afford it, they cannot be able to access it easily. So that is where we decided to put ourselves. We are still speaking to the different issues that women are facing, but we have decided to take a legal approach, right? Because we think that at the end of the day, that is where we are going to be able to address the gap that we found, and that is what we are doing. So when you found that gap, capacity, it's important for you to create and build capacity around that. This is all before you actually start the organization. I don't think that it is good for you to think you're going to learn on the job because that comes with extra costs, that comes with extra um falling back and whatnot. So I feel like all these things should be done before so that at the point where you decide that you are going to start this organization, you're in it and you're in it till the end, right? It's not like today, okay, I am the ED. Tomorrow I I don't think I want to associate with that organization anymore. Can I go and I rechange it, make it a business? Like you know, it is like uh remember the people you're serving are literally dependent on you. They have nowhere to go. So you you do not have the luxury to be in it and out of it the next day. So look at how you're going to sustain yourself 10 years, five years, 30 years from now, like you on it has been in place for all this time. Understand. But it is not a bad thing to not know and to ask for help. We have organizations that are established, like it has been shared before. Reach out and ask it, it is not going to take away anything from you if they do not help you move on to the next, if they do not help you move on to the next until you get it figured out. And then the other thing is let's stop assuming that we understand what we are all doing. Let us invest in understanding what our sister organizations are doing so that we know can I refer this person to FEMFOT? You're going to refer a person to FEMFOT and FEMFOT is going to say, oh no, we do not do that. We do not offer such a service. Do we understand the work that our sister organizations are doing before we refer people to them? Do you understand the length of aid they are going to be able to offer? Someone has come to you, they're looking for a shelter, you're sending them to an organization you know very well doesn't have anything to do with shelters, but you are sure we referred this number of people in the year to organizations to help them. So, but then at the end of the day, maybe this is just going to go to the traditional organizations. Let's involve ourselves in, not involve ourselves, interest ourselves in creating a database, an active database where we update every now and then information about us, information about what we are doing, so that everyone can access you, everyone can access you, even if they do not have your LinkedIn, they do not have your social media. If someone is able to like just put in a search GBV, how many organizations appear, how many of them are categorized in terms of districts, in terms of areas in which they work, because that is important. I am from Oyam. If I have a problem and I'm in Oyam, and then they're telling me, oh, the only person who's going to give you legal aid is in Kampala. But then when you come to Kampala, you've done being helped, watchnot, you're going to hear, oh, maybe FIDA has a branch in Oyam. Because everyone knows this organization is the one doing this, if you want doing this, everyone is sending everyone to that same organization. Let us remember that we are all in it for the same struggle. We are helping the same people. So it does not take away from us if we have information about our work, what we do out there, easily accessible. So that at the end of the day, we are still contributing to what the women's movement has been doing right from the beginning. Yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:08

Yes, Danita. Thank you so much. Um, so first of all, to clear up, umoja is not me, guys. It's yes. It's in the name, it's too many. So um, but I what I have to say is please be comfortable with failing and with shifting at in a not in a heartbeat, there needs to be some evaluation. But you need to not from your primary goal, but new information will come in, new opportunity will come in, new resources will come in, and you need to be able to integrate your final goal into all that. Um that is an aspect to it all. But figure out your resources. Your resources might be people in your networks, your resources might be fellow young organizations, all the older organizations, um, your resources might be, you know, the CSR branch of an organization, right? It's much easier for CSR corporate social responsibility, like MTN, Erital, DHL, whatever those might be. They all, majority of them have an aspect of them that they each year they put money towards certain things. It might be women's rights in some organizations, it might be climate change in others, whatever it might be, evaluate those. Those are much easier to penetrate than typical donor funding is, mostly because these organizations operate on ground, so it's easier for them to follow up on you. Someone in America is not going to give you money easily because they don't know what you're doing. Um, but more than that, um when you are approaching an older organization or a more traditional organization, it doesn't have to be for money. It does not have to be for money, and I think we over we overreach in that aspect. Some of these organizations are struggling themselves, but more than that, the resources they have to give you in regards to a seat at the table is it is immeasurable. Someone will say, okay, we want you to give 100k and then what? I've actually had these complaints from EDs of older organizations. I'm okay with sending that 100k, but I don't think you've fully appreciated what I can give you, right? You can a conversation, a capacity building, say, can we have can we sit in your boardroom with five of our staff members and you teach us how to do this? Just an afternoon, two hours, and your lives will be changed. Your lives will be proper, proper changed in that regard. But the first thing is actually starting and completing something. Something must be started and something must be completed. The very, very fast thing within the resources that are available to you. Numbers help, obviously, if you're able to stretch whatever you have in regards to finances to do something that involves numbers, it's very, very helpful. It gives you traction. It might not be your end goal, but at the very least, it showcases your work and that you're actually doing something and it is able to open more, much, much more doors to you. So, um, let me see. Finally, in my closing remarks, I have to say I'm going to sing the same song of sustainability. Guys, let's let's work as entities. Let us take into account who we are. The end, I think our interests are the same. I would like to believe, though I might be corrected, our interests are the same in the end, a world where women and girls are women and girls. Yeah, that is just it. Fully humane and fully humanized. So as a movement, what are we going to do to make that happen together? Together, sustainability comes for in large in part from togetherness. So let's build up on that. In solidarity, um, Sharifa was saying that she's very available to you know mentor, showcase and whatnot. We as a mojo are very available to give you a community in which you can network in, at the very least, to give you a community in which you can um partake in a cause that matters, to give you access to um individual spaces, maybe people who can at the very least help you with certain aspects of your organizational building. Doesn't matter if you're an individual, it doesn't matter if you're an organization, it doesn't matter what you um okay, what you do matters. But what we mean is that in the end, if that is your final goal, please come through FEMFOT, right? As that's what Esther said earlier, please do reach out. We're very, very happy to stand in solidarity for the same goal, world where women are humanized.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:38

All right, thank you so much. Thank you so much, ladies. Thank you, Sharifa, thank you, Rachel, thank you, Tanita. I mean, we wouldn't come this far without you, huh? I told you guys to be ready for uh for to be wowed today. Thank you so much, uh viewers, for listening in. I hope you have picked a thing or two, huh? Because these have been very, very concretized uh conversations. Thank you so much and have a lovely day. We remain fame port. My name is Esther Award, and this is the Hall of Fame podcast. The theme has been claiming the spaces exactly.