Temple Bound
God's children are searching in greater numbers for answers and hoping for miracles as they look to Jesus Christ for relief. On 'Temple Bound,' hosted by Will Humphreys, explore how temples offer not just solace but also powerful tools for navigating these turbulent times through faith in Jesus Christ.
Tune in every Monday to hear Will Humphreys engage with guests who bring inspiring stories, profound teachings, and insights into accessing divine guidance through temple service.
Each episode promises to enrich your understanding and strengthen your connection to the Savior in unique and transformative ways.
Whether you're seeking answers, yearning for peace, or in need of a miracle, 'Temple Bound' is your weekly spiritual refuge, helping you anchor your soul to the Savior. Join us on this sacred journey to deepen your faith and discover the blessings of temple worship.
Temple Bound
Climb the Mountain: Why Temples Matter Now More Than Ever with Heather Humphreys
Why does the Lord ask us to ascend? In this deeply personal episode, Will and Heather explore the symbolism of mountains and temples through the stories of Moses and Abraham, showing how preparation and trust are key to receiving revelation. It’s a conversation for your children, your grandchildren… and anyone ready to climb.
Key Takeaways:
- Temples are modern-day mountains where we ascend to meet the Lord.
- Preparation, trust, and overcoming opposition are vital steps in our spiritual climb.
- The journey of ascent itself transforms us, strengthening our spiritual "legs."
- God's ultimate purpose in calling us to higher places is to help us become more like Him.
Scriptures & Quotes Mentioned:
- Exodus 19 (Moses on Mount Sinai)
- Genesis 22 (Abraham and Isaac)
- Elder Jeffrey R. Holland
- Elder Jack H. Goslin & Elder Rulon G. Jackson
- 1 Nephi 21:9 (Isaiah 49)
Connect With Us:
- What does "climbing the mountain" mean in your life? Share your thoughts!
- Subscribe to Temple Bound for more insights into temple worship and personal revelation.
Hey friends, welcome back to Temple Bound. I'm your host, will Humphreys, and joining us today is the producer of the show and my wife, heather. In this first episode of our three-part series, we're diving into one of our favorite themes how mountains in scriptures mirror the temple experience. We'll talk about Moses on Mount Sinai, Abraham and Isaac on Mount Moriah, and how the Lord uses these climbs to shape us, refine us and ultimately bring us home. This series is different and it's very personal. It's a love letter to our four boys and, one day, our grandkids.
Speaker 1:But we're excited for you to be able to listen in as well and we're so grateful to share this with you. Enjoy the show, all right. Well, this has been a really special week as we've been preparing for this episode, comparing and understanding the relationship between mountains and temples, and for me, at the beginning of this whole journey, I didn't I think I've always known there's been comparisons, but this has been like the national treasure experience, where we've gone down this rabbit hole and finding these connections and understanding how it really illustrates the relationship between temples and mountains. And, yeah, I want to thank you for just being so supportive on like helping me understand and like see things as we've gone into it, because initially you were looking at researching more of the 10 virgins and that, that whole concept of how we prepare. But as we've continued to study this concept of how mountains relate, I think has been viable.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I have. I've loved the conversations that we've had. Um, we've talked about this topic. I think that, um, you know, rabbit hole isn't the right word, because it's not really like hasn't been a distraction, it's been like an awesome focus to think about just this connection between mountains and temples, which, you know, maybe has lived in the back of my mind somewhere, but when we really like dug deep and we found a lot of meaning behind it, it's been really great. So, thank you I mean thanks for inviting me into this study, because it's been a really great. You know, we've had a whole week of personal study and really great conversations at home, and so that's been a great experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm also a fan.
Speaker 1:Producer and a fan. No, it's been great. You know, obviously the show has been a labor of love for both of us, as we've tried to create follow up on this inspiration that we had when we started getting connected to the temple. And you know, just for some background, I mean, I think both of us always had a love for the temple, but would you say it's the last, like four or five years where we really started like getting into this space of wanting to understand more.
Speaker 2:Definitely, of wanting to understand more Definitely.
Speaker 2:I definitely think when I look back for me personally, I think since about 2020, there's been a shift and um, and it's interesting, I think that you know, for me, my temple attendance, you know, started from a place of duty, um, and that was great. There was a place of, from a place of duty and obedience, and then I feel like that shifted into my temple attendance, was probably motivated more by I was looking for specific blessings. Yeah, now I feel like my motivation behind my temple attendance, my temple worship, is an actual love for the temple. I love, I love being there. It's just a great place to be and I'm really, I'm really grateful that that is the perspective that I have now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and your example has been such an inspiration in our home for me in particular, and I think that you know I always want our kids and our grandkids to know that, like, that kind of experience wasn't the initial journey for me. It sounds like for you as well, but you know it was something that it was a duty and I believed in and got value out of. But then it turned into this, this love, and now it's a matter of and I think I was telling you this recently, a couple of weeks ago, when I started I think I went last month and the second I crossed that threshold I felt this wave of peace and I was I was just so like proud of myself in a way, but just so grateful that, um, that repeated attendance has resulted in an experience where I feel almost like this conditioning, where my spirit starts to feel connected to God. And I think, as we think about our kids and our grandkids, this connection between mountains and temples goes so far deeper than what we're gonna start with today. And to just encourage them as they're listening to this obviously there's other people listening, but you and I are primarily motivated in today's episode so that our four boys and their future kids will will speak to see us at this, this revelatory stage of understanding at the very beginning level what this could be for our family. So, yeah, I'm so excited to talk about this connection. The the mountains and temple relationship is such a powerful one and it's something that we see in the scriptures all over the place.
Speaker 1:When we started going through this journey, we started pulling through the stories and we'll get to those in a second but it was neat to think about how mountains are almost always like a symbol of greatness and beauty and challenge and struggle. And as we go into these stories, we're going to understand a little bit more about that connection of of all those things being actual for us. And you grew up in the mountains in Idaho, so you've always had a great love for the mountains. I didn't in El Paso, texas.
Speaker 1:I had a great love for the beach, because that's all we had in El Paso was beach, without, without ocean. It was just sandy desert. So you know, growing up we'd try to go to California, but after being married for 27 years, it's become really like a passion of ours as we've gotten up to the White Mountains here in Arizona and just like the temple. When I get to the White Mountains, when you and I go up there, I just feel like an instant sense of peace and connection there. And so, yeah, let's jump right into some of the stories there. What do you when you were going through those stories, what were some of the stories that connected mountains and temples that stood out to you?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I love this. You know this connection between mountains and temples that we've talked about. I'd love to know sort of maybe how you, how you came to like really dive into that connection and put some of those examples and stories together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's okay. So starting this podcast again, there was people ask why did you start the podcast? And it's like we started this because we just felt like we were supposed to. Um, it's DNC section 58, where he talks about we should be anxiously engaged in a, in a good cause, Right, and that he's not. The Lord isn't going to direct us in all things. It's up to us to figure things out.
Speaker 1:And after you and I had experienced some miracles in 2021 around the temple, I just wanted more of the miracles, very selfishly. It was a matter of hey, how can we get more of these miracles in our family's lives? And so the temple became the answer. And as we started going down that journey together, I couldn't help but start seeing these constant scriptures comparing mountains to temples, and it's been the back of my mind. But about two months ago, it just became really clear that I've got to start exploring this, because it's more than just an occasional reference. It is all the time that it's there, and so there's so many different stories that on surface level, there's a mountain in it, but you don't really necessarily see a direct comparison. It's only until I started putting these stories together and then you and I started talking about them, that I started to really recognize the power and the intentional placement and how God has used mountains forever to help bring his children home. And so, yeah, starting off.
Speaker 1:So let's read that story of Moses going up Mount Sinai. So in chapter 19 it says in Exodus, and the Lord said in verse 10 and the Lord said unto Moses, go into the people and sanctify them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes and be ready again the third day. For the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon Mount Sinai, and that shall set bounds unto the people round about saying take heed for yourselves that you go not up into the mount or touch the border of it. Whosoever touches the mount shall surely be put to death. So this is going into that process of like, in order to even have the opportunity of the challenge to ascend the mountain, there's a process of purification and sanctification, and so there's this three days of preparation that the children of Israel had to go through in order to just see from the bottom of the mountain some of the miracles that we're going to be taking up in Mount Sinai.
Speaker 1:So then, following up in verse 16, and it came to pass on the third day in the morning that there were thunderings and lightnings and thick clouds upon the mount and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God and they stood at the nether part of the mount and Mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke because the Lord descended upon it in fire. So again there's this boundary around Mount Sinai. The children of Israel have been preparing for three days. There's thunderings and lightnings. They're terrified because this is the physical manifestation of the Holy Father coming down to the top of Mount Sinai, and they're not even in his presence. They're just at the base of that mountain and they're scared right and again there's smoke and fire all the way around, and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace and the whole mount quaked greatly. So there's fire and lightning and earthquakes. And when the voice of a trumpet sounded long and waxed louder and louder, moses spake and God answered him by a voice In verse 20, and the Lord came down upon Mount Sinai, on the top of the mountain. The Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount and Moses went up. So after all of this, moses is called up the mountain.
Speaker 1:So just the preparation to start the journey was this process of purification and sanctification. And it tells us this is such a great relationship to the temple because it's not just like an open house 24-7. There are certain things that we have to do to be prepared to go into the house of the Lord, to start that ascent. And you know, I think there's such a great metaphor when we think about ascending into the temple, being compared to climbing a mountain, isn't it? Because some people love to climb mountains? You do that. You just went rim to rim two years ago. People that's not me, but a lot of people love that kind of challenge and all of that.
Speaker 1:But it's like when it comes to the temple, that's the beginning of the journey is when we get that temple recommended, we start being able to go in, and that's really where it begins. And in Moses it's in this particular situation. He goes to the top of the mountain. That's where he receives the 10 commandments. And so it's interesting oftentimes, you know, I think the children of Israel were looking for a direct path to their home, but instead what they were given were commandments which were guidelines for them to be better people. Isn't it interesting how many times the things that we're looking for when we go to the temple aren't the things that the Lord blesses us with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and you know there's not a, there's not a shortcut to the top. You know, like that, you, you're required to take every one of those steps, and it's for, it's for a reason. There's wisdom in that, that preparation and in that journey. Um, yeah, I have something along those lines that I'd love to share. When you're talking about this, this process right, this process that comes maybe before we climb the mountain. This is a great quote from Elder Holland. It is the plain and very sobering truth that before great moments, certainly before great spiritual moments, there can come adversity, opposition and darkness. Life has some of those moments for us, and occasionally they come just as we are approaching an important decision or a significant step in our life.
Speaker 2:So I think, that that's great like that. We know that the part of that preparation is overcoming the opposition. You know, I think a lot of people can relate to that feeling where when you feel like Satan is really working to bring you down, you can be pretty sure that something great is coming just around the corner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really powerful and I'm looking for a quote right now from Elder Gosselin Elder Jack Gosselin, this was in October of 1995 that actually parallels that. He talks about how, when it comes to specifically going to the temple, he had a talk that was called Spiritual Mountaintops. It's a beautiful analogy that we're talking about today and he talks about how Satan works hard to make sure that we don't go to the top of the mountain. So it's interesting that the Lord would put us in a position where there's some challenge and effort, I think, in this metaphor of climbing the mountain and how the adversary knows that and in some cases you might say, eh, just take it easy, you don't have to go, this is too much work, or in other cases, you're not worthy or you're not capable, you don't have what it takes to climb the mountain of the Lord. Right, he gets in our head because, like it says right here, satan wants us to fail to reach the mountaintop that will allow us to develop a testimony so powerful that he will be unable to influence us.
Speaker 1:So, kids, as you're listening to this, listen to that again we can get a testimony so strong that Satan has no power to influence us. His work is to thwart our efforts, but the Lord has counseled us fear not little flock, do good. Let earth and hell combine against you for a year. Built upon my rock, they cannot prevail. And listen to that analogy again, heather. I love this. You know we talked about Christ being the rock. The wise man built his house on the rock. What's a rock? It's an element of a mountain. Christ is the ultimate, like representation of this metaphor of being a mountain, something that is firm and immovable, and so, yeah, I love that. You mentioned that from Elder Holland. I think that's a great way of indicating that the adversary is working hard to keep us from going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely yeah, and we're not meant to stay in the valley, we're meant for the climb, and so it takes a lot of faith and trust to make those steps and overcome that opposition.
Speaker 1:It does, speaking of faith and trust. Trust is probably the greatest segue into the next story and this is one of my favorite all time scripture stories. It's found in Genesis 22. This is the very famous story of Abraham and Isaac. This is the very famous story of Abraham and Isaac. So, you know, when we talk about temples, we can't help but mention Elijah, who was a prophet in the Old Testament, who had the promises that we associate with the temple. Right, you know, the hearts of the children to the fathers. I'm getting this so backwards. What is it? The promises of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children and turning the hearts of the children to their fathers. Right, that all came from Abraham. But I oftentimes love this story because it helps me humanize this thing about father-son relationships as it pertains to trust in the temple and the way we relate to our Heavenly Father. We're going to turn to Genesis, chapter 22. I love this whole element of how there's a mountain involved, but there's a direct metaphor, a symbol of Christ in this. That's found very directly. So, in verse two it says and he said take now thy son, thy only son, isaac, who thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. This is something that is so interesting because at the time I don't think there was any way even the great Abraham could have understood how the Lord was spelling this out, so that people in the latter days could hear the story and really understand how temples are playing into this. But once we understand that mountains are temples and temples are mountains, then we start to see the connection and the metaphors become so real.
Speaker 1:In verse four, on the third day. Again, here we are. We just listened to Exodus with Moses, right After three days of purification, sanctification. There's a journey before the climb, just like here. There's other mountains near Abraham that he could have gone up immediately, but the Lord wanted Abraham and Isaac to have a journey before the climb into the mountain. In verse 4,.
Speaker 1:Then, on the third day, abraham lifted up his eyes and saw a place far off and Abraham said unto his young men abide ye here and I and the lad will go yonder and worship and come again unto you. And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it upon Isaac, his son, and he took the fire in his hand and a knife and they went both of them together. So he came prepared for what he was meant to do and I can only imagine Abraham, probably more than anyone else, has a way of understanding to some degree what Heavenly Father must have felt by sending Jesus Christ to earth, knowing that he was sending him as an offering for sin. I can't even imagine what this was like for him. And Isaac spake to Abraham and said my father? He said here am I, son. And he said behold the fire in the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? And Abraham said my son, god will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering. So they both went of them together.
Speaker 2:What I love about that is you know that conversation that they have between father and son. Abraham knows the whole story, what's happening, right, but he did he lie.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was not interesting, Like that. He responded what he said was true. You know, I think that says a lot about his faith and a lot about what we can learn from that story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing how he was able, and again that trust, the trust Isaac, the trust Abraham, the trust in God as they're climbing the mountain. The difficulty that they experienced was heavy. You know, isaac was oblivious to what was happening at the time, but Abraham wasn't, and he's going up the mountain and he's aware that his heart, the son, that's with him, that he's about to lose his son, but he loved God so much that he trusted it. But it tells us, for me, that when we're climbing, when we're in the journey of the mountain, when we are going to the temple and we start to live life, that we all carry something with us emotionally in, just like Abraham did as he climbed. He had this emotional burden that he took to the mountain and just as we can take our emotional burdens to the mountain and it makes the climb difficult because you don't want to go uphill when you're already stressed out, like we don't want to take time out of our busy days when we could numb on social media. So it takes effort. And so he goes to the top of the mountain and there they came to the place where God had told them and Abraham built an altar and laid the wood and he put. He bound Isaac, his son, and laid him on the the altar. And Abraham stretched forth his hand and he took the knife to slay his son. And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven and said Abraham, abraham. And he said here I am. And he said, and I just want to say, here I am. I want to pause on that here I am. He made it to the top of the mountain. He went to this mountain with a sacrifice in his heart that he was going to make and when the Lord called, he had the ability to say here am I. So whenever you just want to challenge anyone in our family when they go to the temple just to realize that just going there is a huge accomplishment, and they have the ability to say here am I is a huge accomplishment, and they have the ability to say here am I.
Speaker 1:Abraham says in verse 12, and then he said lay not thy hand upon thy lad, neither do thou anything unto him, for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing that thou has not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me. And Abraham lifted his eyes and looked and behold him a ram caught in a thicket by his thorns. And Abraham went and took the ram. And behold him, a ram caught in the thicket by his thorns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. There is so much power in this ram in the thicket. He was commanded to do something. He went to the mountain and it wasn't until he was there and being willing to be there that the miracle came.
Speaker 1:And I think the same is true for us. We go with these burdens that we have emotionally to the temple and it's not what we want to do. It's not easy to go, it's not convenient to go, but when we're in that holy, sacred place and we can say here am I, that's when the Holy Father can provide us with miracles, say here am I, that's when the Holy Father can provide us with miracles. And I've had so many rams in the thicket, so many times when I've thought there was that all hope was lost. And that's why we're so passionate about the temple is that we've had so many rams in the thicket that we wanted to continue to promote those types of experiences, to promote those types of experiences.
Speaker 2:Um, I love that. That's such a powerful example. And, um, yeah, I think that thinking about, as you were sharing the story, and just thinking about just Abraham's faith and his holiness and, um, you know, he went with such great like intention to obey God's commandments and you know, I think that is where we get a lot of power is like just in our intention, you know, to do those things that the Lord wants us to do. And there's a quote I love, a phrase I love and I don't know, um, I don't remember where I heard it, but um, it's. You know, no one has ever drifted into holiness. You know, these are really intentional. People have to, you have to take intentional steps to get there, to get to the top of the mountain, to to be like Abraham or to bring that sacrifice and to have that faith.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and we look. I think it's normal in human nature to want to have things be easy, and when things don't go right, how oftentimes we think it's because of something. The adversary will tell us oh, it's something that you did. And yeah, we make our own mistakes. Right, there's definitely things we do to ourselves by mistake or through sin.
Speaker 1:But when we're talking about the temple, it's interesting to me that one of the most important lessons that the Lord wants us to learn in this life is that the reason he calls us up the mountain is to strengthen our legs. He wants us to become something we're not, and so these steps we take, whether it's up an actual mountain or that spiritual journey up a mountain, there's a reason for the climb. The climb has value, and so we're so oftentimes attached to an outcome that we forget that in the journey is where the transformation occurs, as we climb to meet the Lord at the top of the mountain. So you know why do you think the Lord wants us to climb the mountain, like as we talk about ascending, you know, up the mountain in these stories, literally, but like, in a metaphorical sense, in the temple. Why do you think the Lord wants us to ascend. Why the hike Like? Why the hike? Why do we need to? Why do we need to go up into the temple?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's such a great point, and you know why. Why else do you think the Lord wants us to climb the mountain?
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's because you know, especially back then, where they didn't have physical buildings for temples necessarily, there was this opportunity to rise above. I think there's an important way for us to see the Lord is by rising above our circumstance in like a literal sense, like in the old days, moses and Abraham are going above, so they have this bigger perspective. You know, you've been up a mountain, you've looked down and you've seen the world from a different perspective. Did you know, um? One of one of those famous astronauts it was either Neil Armstrong or Buzz Aldrin said that he wished that everyone could go into outer space, because there's something that almost transforms you.
Speaker 1:The second you see the world from that heightened perspective, you start recognizing how insanely petty all the wars are, how ridiculous we are as a humanity in terms of how we treat the gift that we have called earth and each other. And I think that's part of the reason the Lord wants us to climb mountains. I think that's why he used literal mountains in the old days and why here in the latter days we are given temples is because we physically ascend in some ways, and spiritually definitely in others, above the day-to-day and what the world is all about and we can see things from a heavenly perspective. It's like learning heaven.
Speaker 1:As Michelle Bentley says, when we have a different perspective, our thoughts are different. So not only are we higher up mentally and spiritually to where the Lord can actually communicate with us, but we're also in a place where we're not distracted because we're seeing things from a much larger perspective. And so there's lots of reasons why the Lord wants us to climb mountains. He wants to strengthen our legs, he wants us to separate us from where we are. He also wants us to be purified and sanctified in the path before we start the journey. Right, we talk about that, those days of preparation or getting ready to go to the temple. There's, there's something that's needed in that, but all of it is for one thing, and that's become like our heavenly father. That's the whole purpose, so that we can become like our savior, jesus christ yeah, I love that point.
Speaker 2:That's so great, um, you know, it reminds me that one of my favorite scriptures that I came back to as we were studying this is comes from 1st Nephi, 21.9. And this is actually Nephi quoting Isaiah. So you can find this in Isaiah 49 as well, but this scripture is well. I'll read the scripture in 1st Nephi, 21.9,. That thou mayest say to the prisoners go forth to them that sit in darkness, show yourselves. That thou mayest say to the prisoners go forth to them that sit in darkness, show yourselves. This is the part of love. They shall feed in the ways and their pastures shall be in all high places.
Speaker 2:And to me, I see, you might not say mountain, right, but there's a reference there to the mountain and that the reason I love this is because I have this image of exactly what a pasture is. And a pasture is a huge field of green grass, right, and you imagine who a pasture serves. Right is a flock of sheep, sure, and you know, this pasture is lush and green and beautiful and it exists in this high place. But how does the flock get there, right? How do they make that climb? Well, the shepherd is the one that leads them, and I love the references that we learn that one of the names of Christ is the good shepherd and that when we talk about this climb, you know we're not here to climb on our own and just meet Jesus on the other side of that climb, but he's with us, he's the one that leads us to those pastures.
Speaker 1:Yeah, heather, I love that. I love that whole story about green pastures being. What was it? In a higher place, high places In the high places. And again this, this whole concept of like higher and lower places, mountains and temples, and these connections are so commonly seen throughout the scriptures that sometimes you start to get even deeper into existing stories and where you didn't even know they existed, like the Good Samaritan, you were sharing with me how there's an interesting like flavor of the story that you get when you understand this concept of like mountains and ascending and descending.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess if you just look at, I mean you could look at every scripture story from a place of elevation, right, and you can see. And one of the things I love in the scriptures are patterns.
Speaker 2:It's it's something about just like the way that I'm wired and my personality. I love finding patterns in the scriptures. So as we studied this together, it really did open up some new ways for me to find patterns in the scriptures. So as we studied this together, it really did open up some new ways for me to find patterns in the scriptures, and elevation is one of them. So we talked about this. You know mountain temples as mountains. Well then I started to start. I just started to think about some of my favorite scripture stories and I thought is there? There are elevation changes in these stories. So, um, so I went to the story of the good Samaritan and the story the parable of the good Samaritan. Why did you start with that by?
Speaker 1:the way.
Speaker 2:I just, I just ones that I thought of off the top of my head. That were stories that I love.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:These are just so there was. There's a couple examples um of you know stories from the time of Jesus that I love and I just thought, let's just see, there's elevation changes, right. So I went to the parable of the Good Samaritan and the parable starts off with explaining how a man went from Jerusalem to Jericho. So I was like, let's just see, is there an elevation change? And I looked up the elevation of Jerusalem and I looked up the elevation of Jericho and, sure enough, there is a drastic elevation change. So you have Jerusalem which sits I think it was 2,500 feet above sea level and then you have Jericho which sits I want to say it was 800, 850 feet below sea level. And I thought, you do, you have an elevation change in this story.
Speaker 2:And so I read that parable through a different lens of seeing like, okay, let's see what happens. We've talked about the climb but like what's on the other side? What happens when we come down? Like this, maybe you've been at the mountain or you've been at a higher elevation, and what happens when you come down? What's your responsibility? Like, how has the transformation that you've experienced going to affect?
Speaker 2:You know your descent, right, and so you know I won't go into all the details, but that parable was really powerful to look at what's on the other side when you came from a high elevation down to a low elevation and you have, you know, the man in the parable who made that descent and he fell among thieves. He man, he came down and he happened upon some really hard times. And you have other characters in the story that came down and should have helped and they didn't. And then you have the Samaritan who comes down and who provides the help and the saving and the lifting. You have another example there of him going to a low place, the lowest place, one of the lowest places on earth, and lifting somebody from that low place, and I just thought that was great. Another example is when the savior comes in contact with the woman taken in adultery and, guess what? There's an elevation change because he comes into that story and he bends down to the ground to talk to her. Like, isn't that so cool.
Speaker 1:I don't know why that impacted me so hard. I think it's a reminder of how, spiritually, his ways are so much higher than our ways and how much holier he is than we could ever be in this life. And yet, because he loves us, he descends down to be like that good Samaritan. You know, when you told me that story, it blew my mind In that sense. I'd never seen that relationship of elevation and him coming down right, and the first thing I thought of was like, yeah, how many times do we do what's right? We go to the temple, we do what we're supposed to and then we come back from the temple and life happens. This man fell into a bunch of murderers and robbers. We have gone through trials, people go through horrible experiences and the adversary loves to leverage that and be like well see, either that's not true, or you're not good enough, or all those things, or like what's wrong with you, you know? And then the other thing you said in that story that was really powerful, that I loved, was the fact that one of those, those people that came by the way, was a Levite, that was a priesthood holder, right of all the people who should have known better, right, right it just. I think the reason the Lord did that was to help remind us that, in the end, what matters most is the good that we do as we come down out of the mountain, as we come back and we descend into real life below those things, and how the savior, like the good Samaritan, will descend below all things, the lowest places of earth, the lowest places of our emotional despair, and he'll heal us. And then what I thought of when you shared that, heather, was how that man that was helped by the Samaritan, how he must have loved that Samaritan, how, after he was taken to the inn and how he was cared for and after you know, I think I can't remember the story exactly, but I think he leaves some money and comes back and just goes above and beyond, I couldn't help but think that is one of the ways that the Savior teaches us to be like him is by serving us in a way that we can't help but love him, because who couldn't love someone who descends all the way down to where we are to help us be made whole.
Speaker 1:So this concept of elevation, descending, ascending, climbing the mountains, coming down from the mountains Moses, for example, talking about descending back. You're talking about descending. He comes down and what happened after he receives the 10 commandments? They're all worshiping. They made a golden calf and were worshiping it, so he had the real like. I can only imagine what it was like for Moses to be with God, to come down and have that letdown right.
Speaker 1:Or you look at Abraham and Isaac. He comes down from the mountain and one of the most like poignant scriptures in that entire story we didn't read through. So check this out. This is an important part of like coming down and descending from the mountain. So when Abraham comes down after this horrific experience of like almost losing his son, and then there's a ram in the thicket because he was obedient and he did what he was supposed to do, this is what happens with continued obedience, especially when something like this happens. In verse 17, he says in blessing, I will bless thee, and in multiplying, I will multiply thy seed as the stars from heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore, and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in thy seed shall all nations of the earth be blessed.
Speaker 1:All that Abraham had was Isaac. That's all he had in terms of descendants. The Lord asked him to sacrifice all that he had. And it's so hard, like when we get asked to sacrifice what we have to. But if we are obedient and we ascend the mountain and strengthen our legs and are willing to give all that we have which reminds me of that covenant of consecration what happens? The Lord doesn't take that one thing from Abraham. He gives Isaac back to him and then promises him that he will have a large descendancy that will bless the world. Because he obeyed and this is what it says because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Speaker 1:I also noticed that God called Moses up After there was a purification, sanctification. He called Moses up. And so the Lord calls us up. He calls us to the temple, and in this case it's always through a prophet, right, moses, abraham and the other story. What about now, president Nelson? What is he saying? Every general conference he's saying get to the temple as often as you can. Why do you think president Nelson wants us going to the temple repeatedly?
Speaker 2:So I would just say that what's coming to mind in this conversation is this thing that you're talking about, where, like, we're coming down the mountain right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We don't have a lot of control over what we come down into. Right, we're coming down into these situations or these circumstances and we don't necessarily have a lot of control over what the world looks like, looks like, and so what we are coming down the mountain with is we can and we're talking about the temple like we're bringing that with us, right, I can leave the temple and I can bring the temple with me into my circumstances, and I think that's what President Nelson is trying to teach us about the power and the strength and the peace that all of those things can be ours because of our temple covenants, regardless of the circumstances that we come down into.
Speaker 1:That's amazing Because, again, we don't have control and I think again we have this thought of like well, I'm doing the right thing. I have a very good friend of mine that left the church and I remember he had left 20 years in advance and he and I became really good friends. I met him after he had left and we were going on a jog one day and he wanted to talk about the church and it was cool. I was like, so we were close enough where I just said, yeah, so what happened? Like what was your thought about, why you decided to leave that behind for now? I said, for now. And he just kind of laughed he goes, well, he goes.
Speaker 1:I did everything I was supposed to do. I served a mission. I did all the things. I went to the temple. I was AP in my mission. I came home I met a girl who's fifth generation member of the church Great girl. We got married and it didn't work out. We got divorced and he goes.
Speaker 1:I just couldn't reconcile the fact that I did all the things I was supposed to do and and this is no way criticizing his belief structure or anything, if anything I want to say, I relate to that. I relate to that idea of like, yeah, I'm doing all the things, why are these things not going right? And in some people's cases they doubt the church. In my case, it usually results in doubting myself, like, well, maybe I wasn't worthy, maybe I messed up. All of that's the adversary, because if there's anything that we've learned from all these scripture stories we're sharing today is that we, like you said, heather, we don't have control. When we come down off the mountain Right, there are blessings there for having gone, and sometimes that's what we come back to is miracles, rams in the thicket. But other times we come back and there's the children of Israel worshiping the golden calf. Like we don't have control, maybe we fall into a den of thieves, but the point is is that there's a transformation that occurs every time we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. That's so great. What other stories about temples spoke to you in our study?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just I think at this point I want to go over just some brief ones, because there's so many. I'm going to list a number of them. I don't know how how much I want to get into these, but listen to this. Of course we talked about Moses on Mount Sinai, abraham and Isaac on Mount Moriah. Then there's the Mount of Transfiguration. We have to get into the mountain transfiguration. That one is such an incredible metaphor as to what happens with regular temple attendance. Then there's the sermon on the mount right.
Speaker 1:And then you have these prophecies that are throughout the Old Testament, new Testament as well as the Book of Mormon, that talk about mountains. So, like Isaiah's prophecy about temples, this is the famous one of all that in the last days, the mountains of the Lord, how, shall be established and all nations shall flow into it. This is a huge part of our latter day belief structure is what Isaiah said in Isaiah 2 through 3. Then there's Nephi is in the Book of Mormon. We have Nephi's vision on a mountain, brother of Jared on the mountain. King Benjamin's tower is a symbol of that as well. And then you have Alma the Younger on the hill I'm going to get this wrong Onida.
Speaker 1:Either way, I think the thing I want to highlight, before we go into maybe the Mount Transfiguration just for a brief second here, is to show this arc that is consistent in here is that number one God calls us to the mountain. We talked about that. Number two is that mountains are covenant spaces. So this is just like the temple. The Lord, through his prophets, are calling us the temple. The temples are covenant spaces, back when temples were mountains, like, specifically, you've got examples of Abraham on Moriah, king Benjamin on the tower brother of Jared and Shalem. These are deep sacrifices and sacred covenants that are made and they always go together the law of sacrifice, right, and then are always followed with these covenants that are made and they always go together. The law of sacrifice, right, and then are always followed with these covenants that are made and the greatest sacrifice of these earlier examples being Abraham and Isaac, right, like there's this lesson of taking a broken heart and contrite spirit or the pain of this world with us.
Speaker 1:But when we go to the mountain, the third thing is that Jesus meets us on the mountain. Examples of that are the Mount of Transfiguration, the Sermon on the Mount, and then, ultimately, that we are called back. We are called to descend, like we talked about with the Good Samaritan. So again, god calls us up the mountain. So there's this whole climb that we've talked about. Then there's sacrifice, and there's this whole climb that we've talked about. Then there's sacrifice and there's covenants, which results in transformation and revelation, and then there's this descent, and so it's just such a symbol right, this idea of the mountains being these things that we climb. So, now that we talked about this arc, I would like to dive a little bit into this, um, mountain transfiguration. I think this was such a powerful, powerful metaphor as to literally what's possible, and again, it's the savior himself, which is one of the best things we're going to go to. Matthew, chapter 17, verses one through nine.
Speaker 2:And after six days, jesus taketh Peter, james and John, his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them. And his face did shine as the sun and his raiment was white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter and said unto Jesus, lord, it is good for us to be here. Said unto Jesus, lord, it is good for us to be here. If thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles, one for thee and one for Moses and one for Elias.
Speaker 2:While he yet spake, behold a bright cloud overshadowed them and behold a voice out of the cloud which said this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face and were sore, afraid. And Jesus came and touched them and said arise and be not afraid. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face and were sore, afraid. And Jesus came and touched them and said Arise and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. And as they came down from the mountain, jesus charged them saying Tell the vision to no man until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Speaker 1:So there's so many things I love about this story, heather. I love how, first of all, it's Jesus himself. Anytime there's a story that directly has Jesus, it immediately goes to the top of my list, because we just don't have all those many stories about him. But he goes up to the mountain Again, even the son of God, perfect human being. He ascends, he climbs, he goes to the top of the mountain transfiguration and there God descends and meets with Jesus and there's a transfiguration, there's a transformation that occurs there. And when I read this it just hit me Every time we go to the temple this is one of the reasons I think President Nelson wants us to go frequently as frequently as our circumstances can allow is because every time we ascend, we change just a little bit to become more like Jesus.
Speaker 1:And when we go intentionally and we create space, we maximize the power of those individual climbs up the mountain. We're able to become a little bit more, even more so, like our Savior. And that transformation comes partly because of the effort in ascending up the mountain, but mostly because of being closer to God's presence, and so God's presence with Jesus, and his prophets, moses and Elias were with him, by the way. I think it's really cool, as a side note, that we talked about Moses ascending when he had a mortal body. He had to climb up his mountain right, mount Sinai, to see God and talk with God face to face, and now here he is with God descending to talk to Jesus. It really speaks about this cycle of how this process works, of ascending, transformation, revelation, descending, that's a great point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Moses is there and he's interacting with Jesus. And then when they're and this is great the disciples hear it. They fall on their face out of fear. This is so much my experience, right, I go to the temple with fear in my heart, and oftentimes I hear what Jesus said to them. He touched them. He touched them and said arise and be not afraid. We go to the temple to be touched, at least in our hearts, by our Savior, so that we don't have to have this fear. Only he can calm the storms in our lives, but it requires us to show that we want it. And what does that look like? Climbing the mountain, being with him.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's such a powerful example.
Speaker 1:He also comes down. It's interesting too, heather, check this out. As they come down from the mountain, jesus charged them saying tell the vision to no man until the son of man be risen again. It's interesting. Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, finish your thought. Sorry, I thought of something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that Because there's just there's things about this that, like you know what? Another parallel between the temples and mountains, at least in the mountain transfiguration we don't go around telling everyone all the details of what we do in the temples and it gets a lot of criticism for that. Yeah, it's like no, you don't get it. Like, this is sacred stuff but it's not even about it, is that? But don't you think it's also the fact that, like, we don't want people to not learn the lessons that we learn in going through that journey of purification and climbing the mountain to learn those things directly, If you Google searched what was in the temple and you learned all those different things, it wouldn't transform us because there's no effort and there's no climb. Isn't that interesting? And so that's why we don't talk about these things. They're sacred, but we also want others to go through their journey and climb so that they have their own transformation.
Speaker 2:I love that, and the thought I had, too, is that actions speak louder than words. Right, and do you know what's on the other side of this descent? Right, and do you know what's on the other side of this descent? Because, like I said, you know, I just I looked at these, these stories, from these different angles and I looked at this story, this transfiguration that happens, and I thought I wonder what happened after that.
Speaker 2:I don't know so they come down right and do you know? What happens next is the father of this boy approaches the Savior and asks him to be healed.
Speaker 1:And this is right after he comes down.
Speaker 2:Yes, so that's what happens next in the story. If you read through, if you continue to read this chapter, what happens on the other side is a miracle and I just love that. I love that, you know. You know we read that verse about like, hey, don't talk about what happened, right, but the action on the other side was a miracle and that is. I think that is a great. That's just such a great symbol for what's on the other side of temple attendance and temple worship, and that that descent for us is yeah, you're right, we don't always talk about maybe, our, um, our experiences in the temple and there are sacred experiences that we don't share as well because we hold them sacred but there's miracles on the other side.
Speaker 1:We can testify of that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I again. You know we allude to this frequently and I just don't feel like we can share the details of it. But, um, this pattern, as we've learned it in this journey in this particular week or two, really is what happened to us. There was a calling to go to the mountain of the Lord. There was a calling. I can share that part of it. I remember. I think I've said it on the podcast before, but it was 2020.
Speaker 1:I was in the White Mountains doing like a work retreat, like I was doing an annual planning event for myself, as I, you know, we had sold the company and we were starting a new chapter of business and I didn't know where to start. So I was fasting and praying for guidance as to where to go, and I was in an actual mountain. I wasn't at the temple and at that point, temples were probably more of like a responsibility and not so much a passion. At that point, temples were probably more of like a responsibility and not so much a passion, and so I was fasting and praying and I was told directly to seek out my ancestors, like I kept praying and these thoughts kept coming strong to mind, so much so that it was, like you know, my section of my patriarchal blessing that talks about ancestors is like three sentences, so it was never something that I ever thought was a big part of my life. And here I am looking for something else again. Right, children of Israel, looking for going to the promised land, and that's? I was looking for our professional promised land for our family. What were we going to do professionally next? How am I going to provide for the family? And instead Heavenly Father answers like he does. That's not what you need. What you need is to look out your ancestors. He does. That's not what you need. What you need is to look out your ancestors.
Speaker 1:And so I'm so grateful that, even though it wasn't a perfect journey for me, that I started and you were going through your own journey, which you know around that as well, simultaneously, but I started. I didn't even think I told you, but every week I scheduled an hour where I was like researching our ancestors and like trying to go to the temple. I think back then it was trying to go once a month and which was a huge step up for me, and so I was just in that mode of like going through that and it was in that effort of going more, so that we had an experience where we needed a miracle and we ascended to the house of the Lord, often and not overnight, but inch by inch we went through that. We found our miracle. We had our ram in the thicket. We are, you know, in the example here with the Transfiguration the child was healed, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I think that's part of why this whole journey is so personal to us. It's just because we can relate to this process of being called, ascending imperfectly, being transformed through God's love, by him touching our hearts and then coming back and having a miracle. And, by the way, in that same five-year process, we have a different company now, which I love that our whole family is excited about, and he ended up blessing us with the thing that we initially wanted five years ago, but it was. It was the Lord knew. Yeah, you don't need professional guidance, you need, you need the spirit, you need the savior in your life in the way that only the temple can, and so that's just another connection for me personally, it's just that I was in that actual mountain and he called me to the actual temples to start to go that direction and it changed our lives forever.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I love that. That's a great, a great share.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bound Podcast to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there, thank you.
