Overcoming Toxic Perfectionism and Finding Peace in Christ with Jeff Benintendi

Have you ever struggled with the feeling that you’re just not measuring up? In this powerful episode, we dive deep into the concept of toxic perfectionism and the freedom found in truly understanding the Savior’s commandment, "Be ye therefore perfect." Our guest Jeff Benintendi shares his intensely personal 25-year struggle with self-doubt and feeling unworthy, even while serving faithfully in the Church and as a temple worker.

Inspired by a talk from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, we explore how the adversary distorts the gospel’s ideals, turning commandments into a source of self-loathing and despair. Jeff recounts a powerful, life-changing blessing he received that instantly lifted the burden of his chronic lack of peace of conscience, opening the floodgates to finding joy in the temple and a new perspective on true worthiness.

We discuss the vital distinction between toxic perfectionism, the fruitless self-battering that Satan loves to encourage, and being perfected in Christ, a surrender to His power and a focus on His achievements over our own failures. Learn how to discern the negative, shaming whispers of the adversary from the loving, encouraging voice of the Spirit, and discover how to finally give up the impossible quest for perfect performance to embrace the joy of the Atonement.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who feels overwhelmed by the constant comparison of their "worst to everyone else's best," and who is ready to receive the peace that Christ offers.

Key Discussion Points:

• Elder Holland's sympathetic counsel on feelings of self-doubt and belonging.
• The adversary's masterful craft of turning covenants into curses and inspiration into self-loathing.
• How comparing your "worst" to others' "best" is a destructive path.
• The true meaning of the commandment to "Be ye therefore perfect" as a tribute to God and what we can achieve with Him.
• Jeff's 25-year struggle with feelings of unworthiness and the spiritual breakthrough that brought instant peace.
• Discerning between the Spirit's voice and the adversary's shaming whispers.
• Why "beating up on ourselves" is ineffective and harmful to true spiritual growth.
• The difference between toxic perfectionism (giving up the self-imposed, impossible performance) and being perfected in Christ (surrendering to the Savior's grace).

It's time to stop comparing your worst to everyone else's best. Discover the freedom in surrendering the impossible quest for perfect performance and embracing being perfected in Christ. Learn how to discern the shaming whispers of darkness from the loving voice of the Spirit, and find the joy and worthiness that are truly yours.

Temple Bound is Going to Kenya!

Will you join us? Temple Bound is heading to Kenya, Africa, November 2nd through the 9th, to help a local group of members attend the temple for the first time! We are also raising money for an orphanage to provide medical supplies, food, and shelter.

How You Can Help:

1. Follow Us: Stay connected and follow our daily journey on social media! Follow us on Instagram: @TempleBoundPodcast
2. Donate: Support our humanitarian efforts via https://www.gofundme.com/f/templebound-in-africa
3. Come With Us: We have a limited number of seats! Reach out to join us in sharing this good work overseas.

Thanks for listening! If this episode inspired you, please share it with a friend who might be contemplating temple service.

Transcript

Quiet Hearts, Hidden Sorrows

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You know, I'm literally, you know, um, Lord, I would follow thee as my favorite hymn. And I have some deep feelings about that line that's, you know, in the quiet heart is hidden sorrow, that the I can't see. I know where that that that phrase came from and why it was in there. But to me, I I live that. You know, about a year ago, my uncle, Stick President Draper, asked Jeff, if you can have anything in the world, what would you have? And we were talking about work and all this stuff, and I said, Anything? He goes, Yeah. I go, I know exactly what this answer is because I've thought of it a gazillion times. I said, I picture myself laying my head on my pillow and for the first time in my life taking a big breath and exhaling and feel peace.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Temple bound is going to Africa, and we want you to come with us. November 2nd through the 9th, we have been asked to go to Kenya to help a local group of members of the church go to the temple for the first time. And not only are we looking to help them get to the temple, but we're helping raise money for medical supplies, food, and even some shelter for a local orphanage. So if you'd like to join us, here's how you can do that. Number one, follow us on social media. If you'd like to be a part of it remotely, you can check us out on a daily-day basis. We're doing podcast episodes while we're over there. Secondly, you can donate. We're gonna have a GoFundMe link in the show notes of these episodes over the next two months. Or you can literally come with us. We have a limited number of seats, and we'd love for you to come join us in this effort of sharing this great good with members of the church overseas. So if you'd like to learn more, please reach out and we'd love to have you.

Gratitude and Setup for the Conversation

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, I I will and will I, if I could, just shameless plug for you for a second. Um what you're doing in Africa, like putting this out there, I I I am just so impressed. And I and that is not fluff. We're here doing this regardless, but like I just want you to know, I is I'm I'm so happy you're doing what you're doing. And I'm so glad we talked about a month ago and put this together. I've been looking forward to it too. So thank you. That means a lot to me.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

And they will say meeting people like you has been the highlight. So it's awesome. Uh yeah, let's jump in.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Perfect. So um, be therefore perfect eventually. If you ever wanted to know if an apostle understood what it's like to have self-doubt, a lack of confidence, Holland's the guy. I, you know, he he really is. I feel like Richard G. Scott was like the preparatory Elder Holland, and then you got Elder Holland, and now we have a Kieran, right? Like you have this progression of um church leaders that just are so sympathetic to people that um maybe struggle with feeling like, do I belong? Do I have a place? Um, do I matter? Um, and then the mental challenges that we have. I I latched on to this, and we'll at you know, hand up on a painful story for 25 years, we'll get into, but that's really this this talk out of everything I've watched, and I've watched almost everything that's been put out in the pulpit this year. Um, that was been my little project. Right. This one sticks out to me.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yes, and it's such a powerful concept. It really spoke to me as well for the reason that you said this is this idea of perfectionism. We're gonna talk about toxic perfectionism, we're gonna talk about all the different ways the adversary changes these commandments so that they're limiting us and challenging us unnecessarily. Um, and maybe not unnecessarily, but just you know, we struggle more than we really have to as we look at this idea. But I love how it starts with President Holland talking about it. So let's talk a little bit about how he kicks up.

Comparison, Commandments, and Christ’s Intent

SPEAKER_02 3:48

It's hilarious. Yes. He he he basically goes in if you, you know, and I'll paraphrase uh, but you know, uh, we're so thankful for every scripture we have, every chapter and verse. And he's like, but do you sometimes feel like you're just not measuring up? And he goes through the Beatitudes, they start off very gentle and they go through it, but then it's, you know, we thou shall not kill, but then don't be angry. He's you know, he goes back and forth with all of these things, and he's like, and if that didn't, you know, tarnish your your scriptural report card, um, this this one is sure to do you in and be therefore perfect. And this, of course, everybody starts laughing, but it's true. Like it's just, you know, and it's not irony, no, but it's literally like we're we're commanded to be like our Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ. And and how in the world do we do that when we are constantly comparing the worst because we only know our worst to the best that we see from everybody else?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, and it's so amazingly destructive. The comparing that we do with others as we look at our worst, other people's bests. So it does beg the question why why do you why did the savior use the words be therefore perfect? I think we're gonna get into this idea of what he means by that and what our experience is around it. But you know, this is definitely, I think this is one of those connecting elements of the human journey, right? Is that we all, anyone who wants to be like Christ struggles or has struggled at least with this this concept.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah. And and the feeling that comes to mind here uh is really Mosiah 3. You can work all day long and yet you'd be unprofitable servant. It's not like he's setting a bar that we can attain. He's saying there is no ceiling, there is no bar. You literally cannot achieve perfection with without me. So I think the command is not necessarily to yourself be perfect, but it's like as a team, we're gonna get there. Yeah, and without the team, it doesn't ever happen. Yes. And and there's no way around that. There's no way through it, under over. It's literally with him or it's not.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Got it.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yes. Well, I think that's one of those driving concepts of perfection. Yeah, isn't something that we attain in this life, but it's definitely the but it's still like the whole like goal. He says something here that is really powerful. Um, he says, I so I believe that Jesus did not intend his sermon on the subject to be a verbal hammer for the battering of us of our shortcomings. I believe he intended it to be a tribute to who and what God the eternal father is and what can achieve with him in eternity. And I I think that's such a that's what you just said essentially is that like, you know, when it comes to being perfect, it's not something that we we don't aspire to, but we also recognize it's it's not us. Right. It's never gonna be us. Right.

The Adversary’s Playbook

SPEAKER_02 6:29

And the adversary's tricky, he knows this. Yes. I mean, if we believe all that we, you know, purport to be, we we know where we came from, we know why we're here, where we're going, if that's the case, he knew us. Yeah. You know, tendencies, likes, dislikes, strengths, weaknesses, whatever it might be, and he's had thousands of years to exploit that and be a master craftsman at what he does, which is turning people away from their father. Yes. For no reason at all. You know, if you followed his plan, lived, followed the adversary, and at the end you're sitting in a room and there's bazillions of people there, and they say what next, the answer would be there is no next. I just did it. It's a con job. I just did it because I was mad at my father. Right. I couldn't have what he had without working for it. So I used you to get back at him. That's literally what it is. And so we're just played throughout our life thinking that we're not good enough, we're never gonna be there. Oh, what you learned in the self-doubt, the whisperings, all of these things. You know, try to go to the temple wheel, and the first thought you said, Yeah, let's make an appointment. There will be 98 things right after that, reasons why you won't go, or all of these things. It's just the way it is. Right. And it has to be that way.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

It does. And it's it's I love that you're bringing up the adversary. I think that one thing that we don't talk enough about is his reality and how he influences us.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah.

Worthiness Struggles and Temple Avoidance

SPEAKER_01 7:55

And um, I was recently asked to speak at state conference and to pick whatever topic I wanted for a 10-minute, and after much prayer, the concept was what we learn in the temple about the adversary and the way that he influences us as we look at this thing called temptation. You know, we think about J Jesus going through his trials. You know, we always think about the atonement as the most difficult thing that he did by far, which it was, but we don't oftentimes think about the second most challenging part of his life, which was the trial with the adversary, where he was those three different temptations. And what were the first two? The first two were just him trying to get in his head about questioning who he really was. Right. The third one was a desperate plea, like like everything in the world yours. If you just it's like a bribe, desperate attempt, because he knew he'd lost. But those first two had to do with how they perceived themselves and his worthiness or reality as this the son of God. And so when we talk about worthiness and struggling, especially in the temple, have you had an experience around this? Is it something that you relate to that you'd be willing to share?

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah, hand up. I mean, and it's it's it's my answer is it's been a painful 25 years. You know, I uh I think this is a great format to you know share it. If you've known me since we were married, you would have never known that this is something I struggle with.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Being a seminary teacher and a young yeah, leader in the church and an entrepreneur, young sales guy. Yeah, you name it all. You come across as like the most confident, loving. You would like when you told me that on the phone, the story you're about to share, it really blew my mind. I was like, you? Yeah, even you.

A Priesthood Blessing That Broke the Chain

Seeking Others Who Carry Quiet Pain

SPEAKER_02 9:27

I put on a great face. Will I tell you, you like, you know, I'm literally, you know, um, Lord, I would follow thee as my favorite hymn. And I have some deep feelings about that line that's you know, in the quiet heart is hidden sorrow, that the eye can't see. I know where that's that that phrase came from and why it was in there. But to me, I I live that. You know, about a year ago, my uncle, stake president and draper, asked Jeff, if you can have anything in the world, what would you have? And we were talking about work and all this stuff, and I said, Anything? And he goes, Yeah. I go, I know exactly what this answer is because I've thought of it a gazillion times. I said, I picture myself laying my head on my pillow and for the first time in my life taking a big breath and exhaling and feel peace. You know, you read in Mosiah 4 2, they had a peace of conscience. I've never experienced that up until this point. It's always been the adversary pecking and pecking and pecking and pecking at me, destroying my peace. You know, you're not good enough, whatever. So, how this started to answer your question. Day two of being married, I'm sitting on the bed, my wife falling asleep, we're in San Diego, and I'm just kind of doodling with her hair, thinking of how lucky I am. And have you ever had an experience where um, you know, something a thought or whatever, it it sounds like words, but it's not words. Right. It's like you're feeling this, but you're hearing it somehow in your head. Yeah, I don't know how that works, but it does. Inspiration comes that way. The adversary can be very tricky, though. In this case, I think he was tricking it to be my mind and my voice. But the thought was in this moment of me being so grateful, just been sealed in the temple. You're gonna ruin this young lady's life. Oh my god, because of the person you are. Um I believed it instantly. And so I carry that around. Now she didn't know this until about three years ago. So I carried that around with me forever. And then about a year and a half later, we're temple workers in the Los Angeles Temple, and um, we go there every Friday. We loved it, and my mom would watch the kids or my son at the time, and uh it was awesome. And we decided to do a session, and um I had this sickening feeling that came over me, and that familiar voice, so I thought it was real. You're not worthy, you don't belong here. I excused myself, one of the temple workers was my friends, and I said, Could you go get Stacy? And he's like, Is everything okay? Are you sick? And I said, No, I don't feel worthy to be here. And instantly carts me over the temple present, and he's like, Hey, whatever guys need you. We have this conversation, and he's like, Jeff, you're totally worthy to be here. You know, be here. Um that plagued me. Uh my daughter going to Colorado as a missionary. I wasn't at the temple. Totally worthy to be there. I couldn't go. I was teaching seminary at the time at the ASU Institute. I was you were worthy to go, you just couldn't let yourself go. Yeah, I was. And I, you know, I had deep feelings about self-worth. I was in the prison ministry program for a couple of years. I'm I'm a couple of times a month working with people that just are at the lowest of low, and I thought, you know, and here I just thought life was meant to never feel peace. Yeah. And so fast forward to April of this year. Life, business, all of these things, I'm at a breaking point. And it's all about this peace thing. Everything in my life was coming together, but I was robbed of my peace still. And he comes over and gives me a blessing after stake meetings and all this stuff, right? Great present steak president in Queen Craig area. Good golf buddy, by the way. And uh doesn't know why he's there other than to give me a blessing. And he says some things that were absolutely by the spirit. Um, it was one of those special blessings where it felt like there were other hands on my head, wow, and some things I just wouldn't share because they're so personal to me, but nothing crazy, but just words that meant something to me. Detailed your soul in a way that no one could guess. Absolutely, and it had to do with things uh that I struggled with and happened to me as a young kid and growing up and all of this stuff. And he said, word for word almost that the Lord allowed these things in your life to carry on as long as they did for a wise purpose in him. But that's over. Like meaning tonight, and this is how he's saying it like tonight, like instantly, it's all gone. He's taking it all. I was in the temple two days later, and I've been like 50 times since. It's like I I can't get enough. It's like everything, I was free. I I didn't know how to put something like that on the altar, and so I don't think he was just waiting for me to put it on anymore. He just took it and it was gone. And well, for the first time, about three or four days later, I had my experience where I put my head on my pillow, I took my breath, and for the first time, I just I didn't have anything encumbering me. I didn't have anything that was robbing me of peace or joy. I literally, for the first time, and it's hard to do that at 51 years old. But it was the first hour. I was 50. My birthday's July, so I was 50. I don't want to embellish. But for the first time in my life, I could feel that Heavenly Father was happy with where I was at, and that I was just it just forge ahead. It's almost like if you went to your dad and your dad would never uh my dad left when I was three, so I don't know what that's like. But if if you had a dad and you keep coming to him and you're just you're just you're feeling like it's just like I'm always in trouble, always something's wrong. And finally, he's like, Hey, just so you know, this whole time, like I'm sorry you felt like that, you're awesome. I think you I accept you that this whole thing. And it was me, my perceptions or whatever it was. I was allowing the adversary that power of my piece. And so I think what it is is with that, this topic is sensitive to me in my calling in the the stake, you know, with temple, temple prep, and all of these things. Um it means so much to me because it's not just necessarily about the temple, but I'm almost like seeking and searching for somebody that's struggling with that piece of it. Not to, you know, oh hey, let's have a deep conversation about worthiness and all that, because that's not my place.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, you're not the mantle of that, but you're talking about people who are struggling with that like concept of like being enough.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Or just worthy, yeah, even though they technically are just feeling that way.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Right. And we get into this funny story in a minute about my son Ashton. You'll understand where my mindset is when I'm talking to them, because when I'm talking to them, I'm picturing myself what because, you know, again, my dad left my three, so I don't really know, I've never had these kinds of conversations. So I try to mimic what I think they would be like with my kids or my kids' friends that struggle. I mean, we've been that house where people have always come over, we always have youth. And my wife and I have been those surrogate parents for people that have said, hey, uh pregnant, uh, I may be gay. Um, I might, I did this thing and I don't know how to tell my bishop or my stake president. Like, we've been that couple for people to do that. They feel safe with you.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

And by the way, not to like get you know all all analytical on this, but I wonder if the reason you were meant to hold that mantle for as long as you did with that trial was because it did something in your ability to connect with others so that they would share it with you. Could because your ability to empathize and on that level allows people to feel seen and heard. Yeah. And so you've been searching for people in this regard to like help them with this challenge that you can relate to. How's that going? Do you see people who struggle with this type of thing? And constantly. Like what in what context? And to show me, like, tell me about versions of what you see.

Discernment: Spirit’s Voice vs. Shame

SPEAKER_02 17:30

So I'll give you an example. We were this was Christmas, and we were sitting down in one of uh family members who um hasn't been to church anymore. They go to a different church, whatever, perpetuated by these like guilt, I don't feel like I belong, I've been making mistakes, and whatever other reasons are going on, I don't know, but but enough to where you know they didn't feel comfortable. Yes. And so we're having a discussion, and where it started was in the temple. I wasn't prepared, I didn't know what to expect. And the only time I've been was when I received my endowment and was married, and that was on like almost the same day. Yes, and I haven't been back, and it's been like 30 some years, and so you know, a a long time, and that I was literally just called to this calling and then had that discussion like four days after that, and then another and another and another and another, and then we send out you know, survey in the stake, and we start talking to people and realizing that like in one form or another, there's somebody struggling with something. And I just look at this, and I know if you know, I've not been a bishop or anything like that, but I can imagine that might be a first taste for somebody to like recognize that hey, I thought these guys had it all together, and it's a in the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can't see a scenario that everybody is comparing their worst to everybody else's best, and everybody may want to look like everything is okay, and I certainly did a great job at that. I call it like spiritual clown face. I did a great job at masking that everything was awesome. I was as dead as anybody has ever felt inside, you know, with the most personal, I just want peace. I just can I just feel like I belong, I you know, by not having a dad, um, you search your whole life for surrogate acceptance. You search your whole life for like, can I just have somebody tell me like what to do? And is everything cool? And you know, I have friends that, hey, can you give me a father's blessing? I need a father's blessing. Can you be dad for a minute? Asking people, do that's a little weird, but I, you know, that's what you need. Yeah, and like you got to get past it. I just need a father's blessing, man. Wow. That's all. You know, and and that's it, right? So, anyways, long story short, I think I'm finding more of it because I'm actually looking for that. I'm I'm taking Elder Holland's words, and I'm literally like, can how can I enhance it in the little churchy job that I have?

Grief, Nightmares, and Compassion

SPEAKER_01 19:57

How can I how can I magnify this and change people's lives and be a vessel? So let's do this. Yeah, let's for people who are listening, and I just felt a really strong like wave when I said that, for people who are listening who who can relate to what Jeff is talking about, who truly feel either something incomplete in them in their own worthiness, or maybe they know they're not worthy and they're just not sure how to approach it, or they they've gone to the temple once 30 years ago. Um, please pay attention, Jeff. What would you pull out of this talk? What would you have those listeners hear from these words of of an apostle of the Lord that would that you had felt so inspired to read?

SPEAKER_02 20:33

I think a couple of things stick out. This, um, at the very beginning, Sister Darla Jackson were quoting Darla Jackson. He says, I've observed Satanists somehow managed to make covenants and commandments seem like curses and condemnation. For some, he has turned the ideals and inspiration of the gospel into self-loathing, self-loathing and misery making. Okay, so first off, I would say if you can disconnect from all of the noise in the voices and not be so quick to listen to them, but to ask, you know, where is that coming from? Imagine if you're in a crowd of people and you're hearing certain voices and you're actually just willy-nilly absorbing everything. But imagine trying to listen for one specific voice, which is light. Yes, the spirit, right? Anything truthful. Everything else goes away. And I know that sounds easier said than done, but it's become a process for me. And more so, and once you start listening to it, it's almost like the power goes away. So the adversary will just find a different entry point. That's right. Okay, well, I that doesn't work anymore, so let me find a different one. I don't know what it is. People cut you off and make you mad. Maybe we'll a thousand of those will start happening. I don't know. But but at least the one deep dark when you're in the quiet moments of the heart, if those can't rob you of your peace, then you know, you at least have a foundation and a starting point. I'm gonna start listening to the to the voices that actually matter.

A Funny Vaseline Story with a Serious Point

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Well, and I I love that you say that because I this is a big topic that I because I want to talk about nonstop. Um, and I would encourage anyone who's struggling to identify and discern between the thoughts in our heads, yes, which of those are coming from the spirit and which of those are coming from the adversary to listen to the episode with Dennis Deaton in this, there's a two-parter. And just to kind of summarize some of his key points, he talks about, and he's a state patriarch, he was saying that some of the key things there for us to recognize is that anything that creates negativity within us, like a darkness or or like, you know, we look in the mirror, oh I'm I'm so ugly. Oh, I'm you know, this or I'm that. That's not us. Right. We are beings of eternal light that were born of the creator of the universe, and we would never originate those concepts. Now we can choose to latch on to them, and that's what's interesting is that it sounds like it's our own voice, but it's really these quiet whisperings of of darkness and light. And for us, I love that you bring that up because um clearly the adversary loves to and knows how, like a master, like you said, bring us down by simply just suggesting these things and knowing that our weaknesses are going to latch onto those, and then we'll actually own those ideas which aren't true as like who we are. It goes back to self-identity. When we talk about I am a child of God, there's a reason we sing that over and over and over again, is because we need to hear it over and over and over again.

Joy Without Waiting for the Other Shoe

SPEAKER_02 23:24

So yeah, and he'll he'll attack at the most vulnerable points. I mean, something that's coming to mind that I don't know that I've shared ever in my life. Wow. Um, is my brother passed away just before he was 50, and um the means which he did was terrible. And you know, anyways, without getting into it, because I want to keep, you know, privacy and all that. Um when he passed away, I had nightmares for three years, the same exact nightmare. I pictured how he passed away. I could see it even though I wasn't there, and it was just a feeling of regret. And every night in that dream, or whatever you want to call it, that repeated for a little over three years, the end of that would be the feeling of, and you're gonna follow suit by disappointing everybody that's around you when you're gone, there won't be anything good to say. Every night for three years that was reinforced, like how evil you would, you know, and so this when we and and I don't want to digress too much, but I think stories help. And so when I'm talking to someone or I'm I'm just looking for like anybody struggling like me, whether I'm giving a talk or having a one-on-one, right? I I just I always seem to look for it because I'm so sensitive. I almost feel like I don't want anybody to go through what I went through. And if if we can avoid that, you know, let's avoid it, right? So I try to drag it out. But um Ashton, our little 14-year-old now, who was two and a half at the time, everybody was making, I mean back, I don't know, going back almost 11 years, everybody's making what was it, the uh the stuff they were making, the stretchy stuff and all these little little like whatever. They're watching YouTube and they're learning how to make all these different things. So we had like uh crazy glue, Modge Podge. He grabs out two jars of Vaseline. My wife comes home, the back of the of the sliding door is broken, the entire carpet is uh an ice skating rink of Vaseline all over this brand new TV. It the place was destroyed. Yeah, she's furious. Well, sure. And I come home and am dying laughing because I think this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, but I have to turn around because I can't let Ashton see. And she's like, You are she's like, I'm so mad. I don't, he he's not even three. Can you deal with this? And so I was like, sure. So I explained, you know, and I had to remind him what he did. He'd already forgotten. Yes, he didn't know, he just was playing, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

It's like, oh yeah, I look at all this stuff. I didn't realize I did that.

Toxic Perfectionism vs. Perfected in Christ

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Right, yeah. So I and then I'm like, so that's not good. And and when he realized it was like not good and he saw Stacy cleaning up, for a couple seconds he felt bad, and then you know, his youth just kind of took over and he just went and played. What I would not do is three weeks later at three in the morning, go and shake him and wake him out of bed and say, Don't you remember how terrible you were? You did this thing, right? And drag him down the stairs and point his face in it, and you know, whatever, and then do it again two weeks later and do it again. Like a loving God would never do that, but yet I'll do that to myself a hundred percent, a thousand times over. Yeah, and I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, we we accept that because yeah, we think it's our own voice. So we we hear those those thoughts and we go, yeah, like that makes so much sense. And there's almost this weird, like vi well, I'm I'm I have to feel I have to feel this way because this is part of being imperfect, or this is I don't I'm trying to create language in a way that makes sense, but it's like there's almost this like hurting myself kind of way to justify the thing that I did, and that's not the Lord would do. And the Lord, I I've been called to repentance more than once uh this week. And um, but when I've had to repent, when I when I've had like more significant things to repent of, the spirit hasn't shamed me. It was this like really sad, like longing to be closer to God, not yeah, how could you? Right. That's internal. That's me, that's the adversary, that's not God.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

I I think when you were struggling for the words, Elder Holland says it perfectly. So it's the phrase where and you put your glasses on to read, I have to take mine off. So let's do this. So he says, I also know that as children of God, we should not demean or vilify ourselves as if beating up on ourselves is somehow going to make us the person God wants us to become. No, bingo. Yeah. It's it, it's just like that there's no good that comes from it, you know, literally.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's it's yeah. It there a lot of harm comes from it. A lot of harm comes from it, you know. And so it's interesting. That's what I was trying to say, is I I when I've done that to myself, it's like, well, this is I need to I need to hurt myself in order to, you know, make right what's wrong. That's not how how my father works. That sorrow is is is not the same as as shame.

Surrender, Repentance, and Real Progress

SPEAKER_02 28:27

And I think it's also um, I don't like using words lack of faith or things, but I think on my part, I because of how I was raised and things were just kind of difficult. If something wasn't difficult, then something's wrong. Right. Like I remember telling my wife after this blessing I received that we talked about a minute ago, about a week into it, I said, This is weird. I feel like I'm waiting for a ball to drop. Like I've been joyful. I've I've I'm experiencing joy and peace for the first time in my life. I'm just waiting for something to come and sabotage it. And she's like, nothing's gonna, this is just how I live. She's this is welcome to life. She goes, now just be joyful, and it's gonna go up or down, just be happy. Ever since then, I have. And there's been days that have not been amazing, but it doesn't rob me of my joy. I still wake up at five in the morning and get an hour or two in the scriptures and set myself up for my day. And regardless of what comes, I don't allow anything in to rob me of that peace. Now that I've got it, I'm never gonna let go of it. I hope I never let go of it. But yeah, so anyway, so yeah, I love that concept.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

So, what do you think? Let's talk about this. What do you think is the difference then between, as as he puts in here, toxic what was it?

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

He refers to toxic what do you toxic perfectionism?

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

So, what is the difference between toxic perfectionism and becoming perfected in Christ?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

I for me, and this is where I'm going to. Throw my tie over the shoulder. Michelle Bentley's really good about saying, okay, you're gonna gospel according to just throw your tie over, right? So I'm gonna throw my tie over for a minute. And I think it's okay to do that on this one. I think it's a surrender of the fact that, and you hear it in Mosiah chapter three, you can work all day long, you can serve him who's given you breath, you can do X, Y, and Z, and yet you would be unprofitable servants. You'll never get there. There's no finish line, there's no, oh, I've received. I think it's a surrender to it all, and just realize I'm gonna lift where I stand, I'm gonna do what I can. And as long as Heavenly Father knows that I'm trying, and you go back to the seat of faith in Alma 3234, when Alma and Amulek are talking to some people that built these churches and then they were kicked out of them, kind of con to do the work. Yeah. Um Alma was so grateful that he was kicked out of a place that he there was no spirit there. He didn't belong. It didn't even matter. Like, look, you know, it's and in that he says, even if you only have a desire to believe, like if you just want to believe, right? So my answer without getting more long-winded than I already have is give up. Don't ever try. Like, why? What what is what is you being perfect gonna accomplish anything? You're the more time that you spend repenting, which is a good thing, you're getting more one-on-one with Christ, like the footprints in the sand.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

I'm not gonna say go and mess up so you have more time in him going and find the 90 and 9, right? Yes, but at the same time, you get more time with them. It's not the worst thing in the world to have to repent a little more than the next person and get more time personally loving the feeling of forgiveness and the atonement. And if you start running out of big things, start working, worrying about little things and literal things, and you realize you're never gonna run out of stuff to repent of. And so you can have 24-7 with the atonement if you want to. Forget about being perfect. The only you're not impressing anybody. Heavenly Father knows your heart, and that's all, you know. Uh Maxwell put it perfectly in his 95 talk, you know, Willing Heart. The only thing you have to give is your heart. Everything else is his that he's loaning you. So give it to him. Who cares?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Yeah, I think there's a distinction between perfectionism, toxic perfectionism, and being perfected in Christ in that sense of we should give up toxic perfectionism. It's a choice, it's a real thing to just let it go, stop trying to look to others. Yeah. And you know, so I I love what um Elder Holland says here regarding that. I hasten to say that the focusing on the father's and the son's achievements rather than our own failures does not give us an ounce of justification for undecised lives or dumbing down our standards. No, from the beginning, the gospel's been for the perfecting of the saints. Um, he's just talking about how the need for us to compare ourselves to our previous efforts versus everyone else. We have to, there's a surrendering, like you say, of letting it go, this toxic perfectionism. And I think we let me ask you this: how does someone know when they're like in a state of toxic perfectionism compared to really surrendering and becoming perfected because they're leaning on the savior? What does that look like to someone? What does that feel like?

SPEAKER_02 33:23

I I think it's exactly what I experienced for 25 years, even though I was trying to achieve that, but at the same time, you're allowing that wedge that the adversary absolutely wants to place between you and anything that's light.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Right? So whether it's I'm gonna be the perfect husband, I'm gonna look a certain way, I'm gonna have this, I'm gonna have that, I'm gonna do this, why does it even matter?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

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