How Ancient Worship Reveals the Purpose of Modern Temples with Mandy and Mark Mathews

In this powerful episode of Temple Bound, we continue our deep dive into Mark’s groundbreaking book by exploring the second half, where ancient temples, Restoration revelation, and modern temple worship connect into one unified pattern.

Mark walks us through a sweeping scriptural and historical journey, from the Garden of Eden, to Adam-ondi-Ahman, to Mount Sinai, to the Tabernacle, and ultimately to the Restoration of temple ordinances in Kirtland.

If you’ve ever wondered:

• Did temples really exist anciently?
• How does Eden function as the first temple?
• Why did the Lord restore temple ordinances in our day?
• What exactly happened in the Kirtland Temple, and why does it matter today?

If this conversation strengthened your understanding and love of the temple, subscribe and share this episode with someone preparing to enter the House of the Lord.

Transcript

Welcome Back & Episode Setup

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Welcome back to Temple Bound and part two of our interview with Mark and Mandy Matthews as we explore his book, Understanding Your Temple Experience. If you joined us for part one, you understand that what we touched upon is some of the best information we can share with people who are preparing to go to the temple for the first time. But even if you've been going to the temple, this is going to be a tremendous episode as we explore the history of the temple, as we get into the restoration through places like Kirkland and Navoo and the priesthood. We are going to have a beautiful discussion that will round everything out and beautifully tie it back to the beginning. Enjoy the show. Tell me a little bit about your thought process on that second half of the book. What's the intention of that part of the book?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Oh, great question. So the first half, I knew there was a need to prepare people for the temple. Um, and I at first I thought about writing two books. One that was just a preparation book, and then a second part that would just kind of go into historically the revelation on the temple. I I love the Doctor Covenants, I love the restoration, and so I've I've loved to explore and learn how these things were revealed line upon line, and not only in our dispensation, but how they, you know, originally go back to the beginning uh in the days of Adam. And so I I I wanted to write about that as well. And so, like I said, I thought about having maybe two books, and I thought, well, um, if I can just put them into one book, that would be best. And then I know that it'll get out there because I don't want to write one book and and never have a chance for the second one. So I I put it all into one and I and I hope it's helpful. I hope what it does is it makes the book not only relevant for people that are going for the first time and learning about it, but for people that have been many times. That though that first those first chapters I think has insights for them, but certainly the second half of the book um would be I think a a great blessing to a lot of people to understand how these things were revealed and restored in our day, and and because it's a restoration, that implies that it it dates back to ancient uh you know worship and it and it does. And so that's kind of the the thinking of it.

Eden As The First Temple

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Yeah, and it was a blessing for me. Um after reading through that and getting insights on things, I honestly thought the first half was going to be a review for me. Um, not that I'm an expert, but just you know, you're gearing this towards people understanding their temple experience, so there's an implication of nuance and newness to people. For me, I was blown away in the first half, so the second half really helped validate that. So let's go into these this first chapter of Temples of the Past. Share with us a little bit about some of these temples of the past and how they connect to modern temples.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah. Um well, it it surprised me once, many years ago, I was having a conversation with someone and they they seemed to indicate that that the temple was something that Joseph Smith had invented. And that was really offensive to me as a scriptorian because I thought, how naive, how ignorant to assume that that temples don't date back from the beginning. We know they do. Uh, in fact, it's one of the great evidences that this is Christ's restored church is because you read about temples everywhere in the Bible, and yet so many that believe in the Bible don't practice temple worship today. But this is a restoration of that ancient practice. And so it it dates back from the very beginning. I think a lot of people don't catch that the Garden of Eden itself is a temple. The reason why the temple endowment centers in the Garden of Eden experience is because Eden was a temple. They received, they were in the presence of God. They received ordinances of Melchizedek priesthood, endowment, ceilings. All of these things happened in Eden before they were cast off and left that world. And so Eden then became the symbol for them of what they wanted to return to, was the return to the presence of God. There's even some evidence, like in Ezekiel and other places, that Eden was at the top of a mountain. And so when they fell, they like literally fell to the bottom of the mountain. And so then that symbol of mountains throughout Old Testament is like a return back to the presence of God, back to Eden, right? And so, yeah, I mean, this has been around from the beginning. And so we can start with the Garden of Eden if you'd like. We can talk a little bit about that. So I've kind of hinted at that and touched on that already, but uh, President Joseph Fielding Smith explained that the marriage that they received in the Garden of Eden was an eternal marriage, because death had not come into the world yet. So to marry Adam and Eve would have been an eternal marriage, and God would have performed that. Uh we know in the facsimiles that it was there that he received the key words of the endowment, meaning the uh those keys that we talked about earlier, and received the Melchizedek priesthood and so forth. And one of the things, the connections between modern temple worship and the Garden of Eden that I think a lot of people don't catch, is when they were cast out of the Garden of Eden, uh, cherubim and a flaming sword were placed there to prevent them from coming back to the presence of God. That wasn't meant to be permanent, it was meant to prepare them, right? And so when Brigham Young has the classic statement where he says, you know, that there are you have to know certain things and keep your covenants so that you can pass by the angels who stand as sentinels. This is Garden of Eden imagery that we're all trying to return back to the presence of God, back to the tree of eternal life, black back to those blessings that God wants to give us. And we've got to pass through those angels that guard the way. And only through the endowment are we prepared to pass those angels and return back to the Garden of Eden. But that is, you know, that is why the Garden of Eden has such a you know a you know a clear that's why the Garden of Eden has such a prominent place in the temple worship and the temple endowment.

Mountains As Dedicated Sacred Space

SPEAKER_03 5:45

None of this was something that I had thought of before. And what was cool, by the way, you just said this very fast in your description, but you mentioned that God the Father actually married them. That's one of the few things that he came down and did. He's the one who married Adam and Eve. And I read that, and that was it just felt congruent with everything else that I had understand about the temple. And and so when we see the Garden of Eden as as this temple without walls, it opens the door as you know, mankind are evolving over the centuries to see how in the Old Testament, even though it was different because it was outdoors, it really was the same. And so you go on to talk about other temples.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Well, yeah, so from Eden, there's Adam and Diamond, which we learn about was a similar presence of God experience that Adam and his posterity had. And then throughout the Old Testament, there's the experience of holy mountains that we read about again and again. You know, Nephi talks about going up in the mountain to be with God. Moses has similar experiences, and so this idea, one of my favorites is the experience of Enoch, who he's up on a place called Mahujah. And uh it says he stood upon the place, indicating that he's kind of at the top of a mountain. And then he hears the voice of the Lord say, Turn and get upon Mount Simeon. And so he goes down one mountain and goes and climbs another mountain. And I think that's relevant to understand that it's not just mountains in general. We're not just talking about like going out in nature, it's that certain mountains were like dedicated spaces, just like not just being in any pretty building as a temple. Uh, anciently there were certain mountains that were devoted to the Lord, like dedicated space to the Lord. Bethel is Jacob's experience, right? And and and we could list others, but that is where they went to be with God. And so they ascended that mountain to be in the presence of God.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah. And so the nature is used. Um you mentioned this in the book that in when there's no physical buildings to be used, nature becomes the default temple, but not just anywhere in nature, like you said, very sanctified specific spaces. And Heather and I, in our episode, really talked about that journey of the mountain, ascending the mountain, and how there's that purification, sanctification, then there's the revelation, and then there's this exaltation, and then there's a descension where people come back down where they take what they've learned. And just like, you know, not to use military terms, but um Sister Brown, who was in our most recent episode, she talked about like buffing our armor so that we can come down and and continue to share with others and grow and take things on.

Sinai Pattern And The Tabernacle

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I just wanted to point out that that idea comes from the Lord Himself in section 124 of the Doctrine of Covenants. You'll remember that he originally allowed us to perform baptisms for the dead in the Mississippi River. And he said that's allowed for a time, uh, but then in section 124, verse 30 says, For this ordinance belongeth to my house and cannot be acceptable of me only in the days of your poverty wherein you're not able to build a house unto me. But I command you, my saints, to build a house unto me, and I give you sufficient time to do it. And so uh what that indicates is there are times throughout earth's history where they either didn't have the means or or um the way to build a house of the Lord. And so in those times he would devote places of worship where that could happen, mountains primarily, um, where nature would become this sacred place. And the Garden of Eden was like that. We don't know of any kind of physical structure in the Garden of Eden, but it was that nature's sacred space, dedicated, devoted place where the Lord would visit. And so, yeah, those mountains throughout served a similar purpose. To understand the tabernacle, uh, you have to understand Mount Sinai. A lot of people don't make this connection, but the book of Acts even says that the tabernacle was patterned after Mount Sinai. And I think there's a really cool insight. You'll remember that the children of Israel were invited to meet with the Lord on Mount Sinai, and he was dramatically there. Earthquakes and thunder and lightning and trumpets, and they all knew God was on the top of that mountain. And so they gathered at the foot of the mountain, and it says that they washed and clothed themselves. So we're talking kind of of preliminary initiatory rituals that they went through to come into the presence of God. Um they ultimately weren't prepared, and we can talk about that more later, but 70 elders of the of Israel were taken up about halfway up the mountain, and there they had a sacramental experience in the presence of the Lord, where they saw the Lord face to face. Only Moses went to the top of the mountain, though, and there he received the stone tablets, what became the you know part of the Ten Commandments and the law that he received. Well, what's really interesting to me about the tabernacle is when you look at it, uh, if you look at it in kind of a bird's eye view, if somebody looks up a kind of a map of the tabernacle, you'll see it's essentially the a bird's eye view of Mount Sinai. It's like a topographical map.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

And you do have a picture of this, and we'll have this, it'll have this in the a link to this inside the notes.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

So this is really interesting to me. And so you'll see it follows the same pattern. This is something a lot of people don't catch, but you'll notice the outer courtyard at the start represents the foot of the mountain where they were washed and clothed. This is where Aaron and his sons were washed and clothed in preparation to enter into the next place, which is the holy place. There in the holy place, there's just a few things. There's the candlestick, the uh candelabra, the altar of incense, and then the table of shoe bread. Shoe bread is the bread of the presence. It also often had wine with it as well. So bread and wine to enter, to consume in the presence of the Lord, just like the seventy elders of Israel. Right. You get it? And then they passed the veil. And only uh, you know, Moses went to the top of the mount. That's where he received the law. Well, in the Ark of the Covenant contains the stone tablets, the Ten Commandments. And so it really is like that is what they were, they understood. Even though that symbolism has kind of been lost to the modern reader, they understood that to move through the tabernacle from the outer court to the holy place, to the most holy place, was an ascent into the presence of God. It was a portable Mount Sinai. So not only a portable temple, but a portable Mount Sinai where they could ascend the holy mount and come into the presence of the Lord.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Wow. That is so cool. And then the connection between all these temples, right? Like we going back to the garden again and then talking about what we did earlier with the modern temples, there's something comforting for me in the connection between those. I just think there's something really powerful and how people it's the same process, it's just done a little bit differently based on the time of man's existence and the means of which they have.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's beautiful to recognize that that pattern. This is nothing new, this is a restoration. Uh, and even the keys that gave it to us are old testament keys. It's something a lot of times people don't get Moses, Elias, and Elijah restored these things. This is old time religion. Yes. Uh temple worship is dates us back to the very beginning, and it's and it's beautiful, and something that uniquely and powerfully restored through the restoration.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Yes, and like you said at the beginning of this, so many people confuse temples with like Joseph Smith and modern religion, but there's nothing more ancient about what we believe than the temples themselves.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

All right. So, Mark, before we move on, what's what's in your heart regarding this this part of the book for you?

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Well, maybe my like I'd love to share my concluding point of that chapter, which is, you know, section 124 of the Doctrine Covenants uh says this about temple worship. It says that these things are ordained by the ordinance of my house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name. Now, when you realize that the Lord's people, his true people, his covenant people are always under command to build temples, you realize that temple and temple worship becomes one of the great signs and evidence of Christ's restored church. Um, it's interesting to me that we live in a day where a lot of people, I grew up in Texas and people talked about Bible religion. And what they mean by Bible religion is a religion that that draws its source from the Bible. The irony of that is nobody in the Bible ever had a Bible. Uh, what they had are living prophets, which are largely rejected in our world today, and the other thing they had were temples where they could meet with the Lord. And so true Bible religion is not just having a Bible, true Bible religion that you read about in the Bible is being led by living prophets, who are those true messengers who invite and prepare people to come into the presence of God in temples, just like Moses. And that's what we have in the Restoration. We have Joseph Smith as a modern-day Moses building temples, our modern-day Mount Sinai, and that same invitation given to the children of Israel, come into the presence of God. I will make you a kingdom of priests, kings and queens, priests and priestesses, uh, my holy people, my covenant people, are invited into my presence. And that is a major theme of the restoration, and it's uh it dates back to the beginning throughout the Bible.

Restoration As Ancient Religion

SPEAKER_03 14:43

All right, Mark, thank you. So now that we've done this like historic review of the temples, and we see from the first episode how these elements, you know, from tokens to clothing to promises made to blessings given, how these go back to the beginning of the creation, to Adam and Eve. Let's now bridge that from the the ancient world to today. Let's talk about the restoration. And that's where the book takes us is to the restoration of temples in today's today's world. So let's let's take it off uh from that point.

Temples As Evidence Of Restoration

Purpose Revealed In Doctrine And Covenants 84

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, absolutely. Um it's interesting. We in the church, the modern church today, everybody understands the importance and significance of temples. You know, it is the focal point of our worship, the ultimate blessings, and we all seem to understand that. And 400 temples now in some phase of completion. Uh but I'd love to, when I'm teaching my students about this, to ask them, did Joseph Smith understand that April 6th, 1830, when the church was organized? And of course, the answer is no. This, like many things, is is unfolded gradually, line upon line. And so there's some early hints at temple. He's told to build one in Zion, doesn't really know why. Uh they're told that they're to gather in Kirtland where they'll be endowed with power from on high in section 38. And again, the Lord doesn't connect that to the temple at first. One of really the first major revelation on the purpose of temples is in section 84 of the Doctrine of Covenants. And in section 84, this is a revelation from Jesus Christ to Joseph Smith. And in it he says, Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church established in the last days for. So he's like, I'm about to explain to you the ultimate purpose for why the church was restored and established in the last days. And he says, for the restoration of his people as has spoken by the mouth of the prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem. So he says, the purpose the church was restored was to restore and gather his people to Mount Zion. Well, why? What is it about Mount Zion that we want to gather the people to? We'll take a look at the next verse, verse 3 says, Which city shall be built beginning at the temple lot. And then verse 4 says, Verily, this is the word of the Lord that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints beginning at this place, even the place of the temple. And so what this is saying is the Lord is revealing that the reason the church was restored was to gather his people to the temple, that that is the ultimate purpose. And of course, we kind of recognize that implicitly today. Every good missionary knows you don't just baptize a new convert, you want to have them focused for a year later when you can get them to the temple, right? But this is when that's first revealed. The Lord is in essence saying the ultimate purpose for why I restored my church in the latter days is so that I could gather my people to the temple where they could receive those blessings. And of course, the prophet Joseph Smith has a lot to say about this. The prophet Joseph Smith says that this is the reason that the church, that the people were gathered in any age of the world, was to build unto the Lord a house. Here's the quote. The main object was to build unto the Lord a house, whereby he could reveal unto his people the ordinances of his house and teach the people the way of salvation. For there are certain ordinances and principles that when they are taught and practiced must be done in a place or house built for that purpose. So section 84 is where the Lord first reveals that. This is why I restored my church. This is the ultimate purpose, to gather my people to the temple. Well, still he hasn't explained why. And he does that in verse 19 through 22. This is what he says. And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries, even the key of the knowledge of God. He is saying that the greater or Melchizedek priesthood has the power to unlock, the authority to unlock. That's what a key represents here: a key to unlock the mysteries, which are sacred truths often revealed in temples, and the knowledge of God, the ability to know God. And with that, he then says this therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh, for without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live. Now, in kind of our modern eyes, we read that and like, oh yeah, ordinances, you know, unlock the power of godliness. But you've got to understand that when this was first revealed, there weren't ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood. There was one ordinance, confirmation, right? So this is a revelation that there are going to be more ordinances. And now remember the context is temple. And so we say, and when these temples are built, there are going to be Melchizedek priesthood ordinances who manifest the power of godliness and unlock the presence of God. That unlock what he calls the knowledge of God so that we can see the face of God and live. Well, obviously, what he's referring to here is the temple endowment. The temple endowment is specifically the ordinance of the Melchizedek priesthood that allows us to enter God's presence and come to know him, as we've talked about. And so that is where the Lord first reveals that purpose of the temple endowment.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

Amazing. And one thing I highlighted in the book was that unlocking to see the face of God. It goes back to that concept of what you said earlier in our first episode of how God wants us, he doesn't like he's not waiting for us to go through the veil after we die. He wants to be with us now. And so for us to know that that's actually possible in different ways is such a different way to approach the temple, for sure.

Sanctify Yourselves: D&C 88

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Amen. And he he then goes on to actually give an Old Testament example where Moses at Mount Sinai invited the people, like we talked about earlier, into his presence. But the people rejected it. And uh they said, Moses, you go on without us. We're we we don't want to meet God. And that was strike one. He goes up the mountain for 40 days, he comes back, and they're worshiping a golden calf. And in section 84, the Lord explains to Joseph Smith, this is why they were placed under the priesthood restriction of the law of Moses and those things, is because they rejected this invitation. And the Lord doesn't come out and say it, but it's clear what he's doing is he's sharing this as a cautionary tale. He's telling Joseph, look, you're my modern Moses, and I'm about to invite my people back into my presence. But if they go off worshiping golden calves, they can lose this privilege. This isn't a guarantee. I want them to be ready, I want them to be prepared. And so Joseph took this seriously, and he tried to prepare the people. But it was two months later in section 88 where the Lord then extends the invitation specifically to us to come into his presence. And this is what he says. Verse 68, he says, Therefore, sanctify yourselves, that your minds become single to God, and the day will come that you shall see him, for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time and in his own way and according to his own will. Now, the Lord can reveal himself however he wants, but uh the way that Joseph Smith interpreted that the way the Lord would reveal himself or unveil himself is in the temple. And that's why it uses that temple language of sanctify and unveil, right? This is temple endowment language. In fact, it's just a few verses later that the Lord then restores the ordinance of the initiatory, the washing anointing. He says, I give, this is verse 74, I give unto you who are the first laborers in the last kingdom a commandment that you assemble yourselves together and organize yourselves and prepare yourselves and sanctify yourselves. Right? Now remember that means to be made clean, made holy for God's presence. Well, how are they supposed to do it? Yea, purify your hearts and cleanse your hands and feet before me, that I may make you clean, that I may testify unto your Father and your God and my God, that you are clean from the blood of this wicked generation, that I may fulfill this promise, this great and last promise, which I have made unto you when I will. Now again, we kind of look at that in hindsight, we realize what he's talking about. This is the Lord first restoring washing rituals. He's reminding them, this is what happened anciently. I want you to do it again. I am inviting you into my presence again just like I did anciently. And you in order to prepare yourselves, you need to sanctify yourselves through that same practice of washing and anointing just like they did anciently, so that you're clean for my presence.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

So, are you gonna say something? No, go ahead. Okay, so um it's very interesting because this was all happening in section 88, but Kirkland Temple doesn't happen for a little while longer. Is this and there wasn't washing and anointing in Kirkland Temple? Was it was there was there was Washington anointing. So talk us about that that step because he's preparing them for the first temple to be built in the latter days, the Kirkland Temple. So let's talk about that piece and how that temple served as not just like a temple to be built, but was a continuation of what to come next.

Kirtland: Washings, Anointings, Solemn Assembly

SPEAKER_00 24:04

That's exactly right. In fact, so he kind of he's talking about this throughout section 88 that I'm gonna restore higher ordinances and you're going to be invited into my presence, right? That's what he started in section 84 and then section 88. He extends that invitation, tells them to do washing and anointing, uh, initiatory rituals, which do begin in the Kirtland Temple. Uh, but all of that is to culminate at the end of the revelation where he says famously in verse 119, organize yourselves, prepare every needful thing, and establish a house, meaning build a house. We often don't kind of understand that. That's what he's saying. He's saying, build a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God. And so the revelation literally concludes with, Therefore, I want you to build my temple. And that's when it becomes clear, oh, it's in the temple where all this is supposed to happen. That's where he's going to reveal these ordinances, that's where we're gonna do these washing anointings, that's where the Lord is gonna manifest himself to his people. And that's exactly how the prophet Joseph Smith interpreted it and told them. He turned to the saints gathered there in Kirtland, that this is what they were to prepare themselves for. He said, We must have all things prepared and call our solemn assembly as the Lord has commanded us. That's section 88, verse 70, where the Lord tells them to call a solemn assembly. It's what we would call the temple dedication of the Kirtland Temple. The house of the Lord must be prepared, like we just read in verse 119. Uh, and in it we must attend to the ordinance of washing. We must be clean every whit, like we just read in verse 74 and 75. So he's just he's just kind of summarizing the message of section 88, and then he concludes by saying, If we are faithful and live by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God, I will venture to prophesy that we will get a blessing that will be well worth remembering. All who are prepared and are sufficiently pure to abide the presence of the Savior will see him in the solemn assembly. That was the Lord's promise to the saints in Kirtland. And as you know, your history that that was fulfilled. Uh the Lord did dramatically uh visit the Kirtland Temple, and they were prepared through those washing and anointings, through their worthiness, they did come into the presence of the Lord. They they were able to fulfill that, unlike the people in the days of Moses. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Do you still do you see that pattern now, like with the young adults that you work with? Like I just think about like we look like looking at that as an example. Like, do you see, like, I don't know, does that do you feel like that pattern still continues that like we are we're preparing now? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

I mean that that that pattern is um, of course, the pattern and purpose of every prophet in every day and age is to bring the people into the presence of God. And so not only young adults, but but all of them. But yeah, especially our young adults, they're being endowed earlier than ever before, or they're attending the temple more frequently than ever before. And it is to prepare them for his presence, both his presence in the temple, but also you'll remember that the that the temple is the number one preparation for the second coming. The Lord says to stand in holy places, which, if you remember the names of the tabernacle rooms, the holy place and the most holy place, to stand in holy places literally in scriptural language means stand in the temple. And it's to prepare you to stand in his presence, right? What better way to prepare to stand in his presence at his second coming than to stand in his presence right now in his house? If we're worthy of one, we're worthy of the other. If we're prepared for one, we're prepared for the other. And so this really becomes the great opportunity to prepare to stand with the Lord in the second coming. In fact, in section 101, when it says stand in holy places, that the Lord will unveil himself, it actually becomes clear what he's kind of hinting at is we're being gathered to the holy place, and it's like the Lord is on the other side of the veil, and at the second coming, he's gonna remove that veil and we're gonna see him. And so he's kind of using this temple imagery of the tabernacle in the Old Testament to kind of help us understand what we're preparing for. We're standing in his presence waiting for him to unveil himself.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

I'll never I'll never go through the veil the same way again. You know, just just to remember, this is like this, okay, this is gonna be a similar, a similar experience of what I'm gonna go through when I see it. Dress rehearsal. A dress rehearsal. I love that. And so Kirkland Temple gets built, they go and they have the solemn assembly, amazing things happen. But I don't do you think Joseph Smith had any idea of the number of prophets he was going to see and the things that were gonna be restored. Do you think he had an idea that those things were coming?

Seeing The Lord And Temple Presence

“This Is Just The Beginning”

SPEAKER_00 28:38

No, I I think up to this point, all he knows is what the Lord has promised. Which is bold in and of itself. I mean to promise the people if you're ready, you're gonna see the Lord in in his house. And the temple. I, as a as a as a leader, I can't imagine making that promise and how nervous I would be the day of, as they're like, okay, well, we built and you actually read that in the dedicatory prayer. You see that language, he's like, we build the temple. You asked us to it, we did our best. I know it's not perfect, but and you made this promise, and here we are, and we really appreciated this were fulfilled. You know, don't leave me hanging here. And so anyway, he he does approach the Lord in section 109 and ask for this, and the Lord does appear. And some people see him in the temple. It's filled with angels. You know the stories of the glory that rests upon the temple. Uh, I love how uh Eliza R. Snow describes that although not everyone saw visibly the face of the Lord, everyone felt his divine presence. And so it was fulfilled in one degree or another to everybody that was there. All the faithful saints experienced that. Um, but yeah, I don't think Joseph Smith was anticipating what would come next. In fact, I think the Lord hints at that in what he says to him right before Moses, Elias, and Elijah come. In section 110 of the Doctrine Covenants, is where the first half of the revelation is a description of Jesus Christ. Christ formally accepting the Kirtland Temple as his house and promising that he would continue to manifest himself to his people in that house. And really that's still true of temples today, like we've talked about, we go to the celestial room, so the Lord will manifest himself to us, right? And that was kind of the extent of Joseph Smith's understanding. But listen to what he says next. In verse 9, he says, Yea, the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out and the endowment which my servants shall be endowed in this house, right? So, Joseph, you had no idea. Millions will be blessed by what has happened here today. And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands, and this is the beginning of the blessings which shall be poured out upon the heads of my servants. Even so, amen. And that is the end of the first vision. And what then follows is the vision of Moses, Elias, and Elijah. But I love what the Lord says. This is just the beginning. Like Joseph, I know you think you're kind of done. You've done it, you brought them into my presence, and you thought, okay, that's it. Uh, mission complete. That's just the beginning. What is about to happen is going to bless millions. This is just the beginning of temple worship. This little Kirtland temple that you built, this is just the beginning. And then, of course, Moses, Elias, and Elijah follow, all restoring priesthood keys that would open up and unlock all the blessings of what we do in temples today. The full temple endowment, temple marriage ceiling, vicarious ordinances for the dead, all of that is possible because of what followed next. And so, yeah, I don't think Joseph Smith understood what was about to follow. And I think that's why the Lord prepares him. This is just the beginning, Joseph. Just wait till what's going to happen next.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah, I would have felt the same way. I mean, I just saw angels, you know, they saw him assembly. I would have been like, I am so awesome. And this is as good as it gets. And could it get any better? And it does. It gets so much better. And unfortunately, we just cannot do it justice, I think, on this episode to go into that, because that's how we heard you, Mark, was talking specifically in great detail over these next few sections over what happens with Moses and Elias and Elijah. Maybe you could do a brief summary of that, and then maybe we can have you come back remotely and do another episode just based on that one hour that we spent with you learning, because the depth of the blessings that the Lord's not only alluding to, but then immediately gives to Joseph that we are now experiencing in the modern days is such a testimony builder. It just makes me realize, wow, there's so much love connecting us all together. So would you mind doing a summary of that?

Keys From Moses, Elias, And Elijah

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Absolutely. So Moses delivers the keys of the gathering of Israel. Now, most people, when they hear about those keys, they think of missionary work going to the nations of the earth. And certainly that's included in the gathering of Israel. That's why the president of the church who holds those keys sends out those missionaries to all the nations of the earth. But you'll remember that Moses didn't just gather Israel to the church, like we've already discussed. Moses gathered them to the temple, to Mount Sinai. And so the gathering of Israel is not complete until you've gathered them to the temple. And you see the symbolism of that at the bottom of a baptismal font in the temple, 12 oxen, which symbolizes the gathering of Israel, right? Israel is not completely gathered until they've been gathered to the house of the Lord, where they can receive the full blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Okay? And so then Elias comes, and Elias restores what he calls the dispensation, the gospel of Abraham, meaning the Abrahamic covenant. The heart and core of the blessings of Abraham are the blessings of eternal marriage and eternal posterity, right? So Elias essentially restores what we would call the full temple endowment and eternal marriage. Then Elijah comes and he restores sealing power. Now, sealing power does two basic things. Number one, it seals all ordinances, it makes all ordinances eternally permanent. Everything that's performed by the power of the priesthood is binding on earth and in heaven. But then ultimately, what it does as far as the temple is this is what allows us to bind things in the temple so that a vicarious ordinance that's performed in the temple has power to reach beyond the veil and rescue somebody on the other side, or allows us to seal generations for the living to the dead. And so that idea of binding on earth and in heaven to cross the veil, that power is made possible by Elijah. And uh and you see both the keys of Elias and Elijah exercised in a temple marriage today, as earlier today when we were doing temple ceilings. Um that that that ordinance combines both the keys of Elias and Elijah and what they authorize us to do. And so that's what's restored in the Kirtland Temple. Now, the interesting thing about the Kirtland Temple, though, we now own it again, it is not set up to do anything that we do in temples today.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

It doesn't have the rooms.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Exactly. And Orson Pratt later would make this point. It wasn't built for this, right? It was built to be a sacred place where the knowledge and the authority of temples could be restored. The building of temples the way we know them today, so that they can have their full and complete use, that doesn't happen until Nau. In section 124 of the Doctrine Covenants, the Lord. Now remember, they've lost everything. Everything's been lost in Missouri. They've finally gathered here in Nauvoo. They have nothing. And the Lord, at the very start of the revelation, commends them again to gather the people and build unto him a house. And you just can imagine them going, oh what? We have to build a temple again, right? And then he explains immediately why in verse 28 he says, For there is not a place found on earth that he, the Lord, may come to and restore again that which was lost unto you, or which he hath taken away even the fullness of the priesthood. Now we kind of read that today and we go, wait, fullness of the priesthood, don't we have all the priesthood? We've got Moses and Elias and Elijah. What keys came in Navu? Well, no keys came in Nau. What he means by fullness of the priesthood, he makes clear a few verses later in verse 41. For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things which pertain to the dispensation, the fullness of times. In verse 4, he says, Verily I send you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people. So what he means to say is, I need to build, I need to build a house so I can reveal the fullness of priesthood ordinances. And that's what would happen in Nauvoo. It's in Nauvoo that we would get the full temple endowment, temple ceilings, work for the dead. All the things that we do in temples today are revealed and restored in Nauvoo. But the authority was given there in Kirtland. Kirtland planted the seeds that would flourish and grow in Nauvoo and then spread to the ends of the earth. Now we've got 400 temples all patterned the same as Nauvoo with all those ordinances that the Lord has restored towards.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

And I I needed to know that when I read through the book, because I never understood really why Kirkland was built when it didn't have, it didn't stay for very long in our in the church, right? And then there was the lack of rooms in these different elements. But when you see creation in rear in the rearview mirror, you start to see it as this kind of messy process sometimes where people are doing the best they can with what they have, but the Lord sanctifies each of those steps for a very defined purpose. So Kirtland now makes a lot of sense to me. It's like, yeah.

Why Kirtland Then Nauvoo

SPEAKER_00 37:38

It does. It really becomes kind of interesting to me that Moses, Elias, and Elijah needed to have a sacred place. Their keys were primarily temple keys. And the Lord was essentially saying that needs to be restored in a temple. And so they created, they built the Kirtland temple so that there would be this sacred place where not only the Lord could appear, but so these angels could come and deliver these sacred keys. It's interesting in the New Testament to me that it was on the Mount of Transfiguration that those keys were delivered to Peter, James, and John, which itself was a New Testament natural temple. And so it had to be apparently in a temple. That was what the Lord ordained. And so it was the temple built to restore and reveal the purpose of temples. And it served its purpose and it was beautiful. And now we do all the things that we do in temples today based on the knowledge and authority we gained there.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

Wow. All right. Well, listen, this has been such a wonderful treat, uh, Mark and Mandy. I appreciate you guys being here. And as we've as we've talked about this, I think this is a natural way to bridge to the where we are today with temples. So how would you summarize for the audience, now that we've talked about what it's like to go through with the right perspective and prepare ourselves and then how it ties to the ancient temples, what would you have the audience know now that they have this in their heads?

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Maybe the simplest way that I would summarize all of it that I would want to convey to anybody that I loved and cared about is simply this. The Lord is waiting to meet you in his house. The Lord loves his children. Our Father in heaven, our Savior Jesus Christ, they want to meet with us in their house. And that's been the case from the beginning. And so throughout history, temples have been built, natural temples have been dedicated so that the Lord could have a place to meet with us. And that really is the purpose of temple worship still today. That we can enter the presence of the Lord, we can come into the temple, we can leave the world behind, and we can just be with the Lord and receive of his choicest blessings. Um growing up, I always noticed that my dad and my mom, when they had some you know, trial they were going through or some answers, some guidance that they needed, they would go to the temple. And uh it wasn't until I was much older that I realized they weren't going to the temple, they were going to the Lord to meet with him in his house. And when you see it that way, you realize that this isn't just some chore, this isn't just something to check off a list, this isn't just something that we're supposed to do out of duty. We should long to be with the Lord. And the temple is our opportunity to do so. He's waiting for us. His hands are extended, he's inviting us into his presence, he's waiting for us to come visit him. And I hope for myself and for all that I care about that we will accept that invitation and we will visit him, where he can give us of his instruction and knowledge to guide us in our lives, his comfort and love to support and strengthen us in our trials, where we can just go and sit with and be with the Lord and receive of his help and strength in this life. That is to me the purpose of the temple, along with all the blessings that will exalt us in the next. But that's why I love the house of the Lord. It's because I love the Lord.

The Lord Is Waiting In His House

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Thank you, Mark. It's all about going home. And I love what we've learned here today. And, you know, part of what we do here at Temple Bound is we love that we're recording these messages to help people across the globe bind their hearts to the Savior. But another purpose of the show is to actually create a record today for your posterity. This is intended so that when your kids are fully grown and your grandkids come, they can see you two here at this stage of life sharing these messages to them. And so, maybe even using your language, Mark, to share a vision of what you feel for them. So, what would you want to tell your descendants about the temple and Christ? Mandy, what would you like to share with speaking to your your descendants?

SPEAKER_01 41:40

You know, through this whole discussion, it's just really touched my heart the idea that the temple is a great opportunity for us to go and meet with the Lord to feel his presence, to see him, to speak with him, to receive revelation. But it's very difficult for us to have that experience if we're not prepared, if we're not ready. If we're just going sh and we have other things on our mind, or we just haven't really thought about it very much. We're just not gonna have the experience that we could have. And I just I'm thinking of um we went to the Mesa temple earlier today, and I loved the big sign on the wall as we walked out where it said, Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. We really do believe that. And I want everyone that I love, all of my descendants, to know that you are a child of God. And if you will be prepared, if you will ready yourself in every way that you can and go and meet with the Lord in the temple, he's there and he wants to talk to you.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

I love that. Thank you. Andy, what about you, Mark?

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Well, that's a beautiful thought. So if I were to address my my posterity, I would want them to know, number one, that I love them, that I love the Lord, that I have found the Lord in his house. He has manifest himself to me. I have heard his voice, I've been in his presence, and you can too. And you can too. And I hope they'll always remember that. And I hope whenever they're going through trials and struggles and they need help from the Lord, they will know they can find him in his house. Whenever they're going through uh times in their life when they need answers to their questions or guidance in their life, they'll know that they can go to the Lord and receive that instruction, that he is waiting for them, that he loves them, uh, that he was their father before I was their father, and he's waiting to bless them forever. And I I love that thought and I love that direction to think about what I would say to them, but that's what I would want them to hear.

Messages To Posterity

SPEAKER_03 43:46

That's so beautiful. Um, thanks to all of you who tuned in to our episode today. I wish you guys could have been with us throughout our wonderful day, going to the Mesa Temple and having car rides together and having this experience. It's amazing how the temple brings people together. And um, so for all of you who've been tuning in and spending these last few episodes with us, we we invoke blessings to you as well that as you go through and learn this journey that you will be bound to your savior and your family. Thanks for tuning in. Thank you for listening to today's episode. We want to hear from you. What additional show ideas would you like to hear about? What questions do you have in your heart that we can help answer? Please leave those in the show notes of today's episode or over on Instagram. Thank you for your cooperation and helping make this show the best it can be. Until next time.