Belonging Over Checklists: A New Way to Teach the Temple with Teaching Restored Podcast

In this special crossover episode, Wil Humphreys (host of Temple Bound) joins Julie and Kevin from the Teaching Restored podcast for a deep dive into how we share the beauty of the temple with those we love.

If you’ve ever felt like teaching the temple was just about checking off a list of "shoulds," this conversation is for you. Wil reframes temple worship not as a task to be completed, but as a divine antidote to the anxiety and disconnection facing youth and adults today.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The "Belonging" Antidote: How connecting to our ancestors and the House of the Lord can literally move the needle on anxiety and depression.
• Meeting Youth Where They Are: Moving past the "checklist" mentality to help teenagers feel seen, heard, and valued through the Savior.
• The Gift vs. The Wrapping Paper: A powerful analogy for understanding the symbolism of the endowment without getting lost in the "Old Testament" details.
• Redefining Our Language: Why shifting from "taking out" an endowment to "receiving" a gift changes our entire perspective.
• Patterns of Daily Living: How the five covenants made in the temple aren't just for the altar—they are patterns that help us become more like Jesus Christ every single day.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome back to Temple Bound. Today's episode is a little different, and I'm really grateful to share this with you because I was recently invited to be a guest on the Teaching Restored podcast, where we had an honest, thoughtful conversation on how we teach the temple, especially to youth, parents, and leaders who are trying to help others feel safe, seen, and connected to Jesus Christ. What I loved about this conversation is that it wasn't about checklists or pressure. It was about belonging, about anxiety, about helping people understand that the temple isn't something you get through. It's a place you come home to. We're going to talk openly about teaching with empathy, leading with the Savior, and helping both youth and adults feel that they matter before we even talk about covenants and ordinances. This episode fits perfectly with the heart of Temple Bound, so I wanted to bring it to you here. I hope it blesses you as much as it blessed me. Enjoy the show.

Meet Will And Temple Bound

SPEAKER_02 1:00

So, Julie, today we have our friend Will Humphreys with us, who gets to teach us about how to teach about the temple. And I'm really excited about this because I still have some that are will be going through the temple, and I want to get better at this. Even though we've had practice, I want to get better overall. So, Will, if you would tell us a bit about yourself and how you came into this. Uh, well, first off, you are the Stud Man of Temple Bound podcast. I don't know if that's what your official title is.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

It's a title. It's a temple. That is, thank you. That's the actual title on the show, Stud Man. No, it doesn't say that at all. I am the host. I am the host of a podcast called Temple Bound, where we discuss all things temple and uh family history. And I've been doing that now for the last couple of years, and it's been a beautiful journey that's taken me all around the world. We were just in Africa last month uh helping members actually go physically go to the Nairobi temple. And um, I'm so honored to be on your show, guys. This is such a great thing that you're doing. I am so grateful to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Well, we're thankful that you are part of this because I mean, the temple we teach, right? We we're all about teaching the gospel, and it leads a lot of this just leads right to the temple, which leads to Jesus Christ, of course, right? But oh my goodness, the more we can help people understand the temple, uh, I think this is gonna be. I mean, that that's that's that's kind of, I mean, if we want to say you cross the finish line, although there is no such thing as that at all, but once you hit that, once you're once you're going to the temple, you're like, wow, now you can really see the blessing. So tell us how you got into this. How how did you start, why, why, why did you start doing this?

A Family Revelation Story

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I love this question because you know, the assumption by having a podcast that I'm an expert is usually most people's mistake. I have literally, I my whole journey was more for myself. I am very selfish in this path, this path. And the reason this came to light was back in 2020, I was doing some strategic planning for the next year. I was doing some personal and doing some professional, and I was using this book called Living Forward, which gives a very cool process on how to create chapters of your life and then organize them around what you want the end in mind to be. And to be really to the point, you start by writing your eulogy and then you start thinking about the different parts of your life and building towards it. And I was praying and fasting, something I'd never done before in this process, and was looking for guidance. We had some struggles in our home, but nothing that at the time seemed that abnormal. And I was led to focus on my ancestors and the temple. And that was a big shock to me. And it was the reason I knew it came from the Lord was because I had no organic desire to like just go pursue that route. There was something in my patriarchal blessing about it, but it was like the strong feeling of like your ancestors. And I said, Okay, well, what can I do? And I scheduled some weekly time. Fast forward, we end up discovering through this process that one of my children had an undiagnosed uh brain injury, had been working through the challenges of that. And we had been during this time when we didn't even know that was going to show up as a problem. I had been, because of this revelation for me, going to the temple more frequently, just because, like, I didn't know why, but I realized now looking backwards, it was so that I could be in a position to receive the revelation for my family that I needed. And there's a long story that we don't have time to go into about how this came to light, but it was so transformative that my testimony went from, you know, hoping it was true to believing it was true to having fundamental knowledge that attending the temple gave me access to revelation I wouldn't get otherwise. And I can't deny that. I can't ever go against that because of how it showed up very literally in my world. And as a result, I had that natural tendency to first and foremost want more of it because we were just beginning this process of healing, and it was a very scary, long road that we were looking at doing. But number two, just you know, you have something beautiful from the Lord. There's a natural desire to want to share it. And so I prayed and asked what I could do to help share what I had learned. And I had a professional podcast. And so I offered it as like, what do you think about this, Lord? And I received a very strong revelation, as did my wife, that this would be good for us. I and so my thought was when I started Temple Bound, I'm gonna do this so that I can learn with my spouse and how can Heather and I become better parents and get access to more revelation for my family. And then it would be recorded for my kids and posterity. So it'd be like I'm also doing some family history. And um, boy, did I have no clue what that was gonna turn into. Um, it just started spiraling in a good way, started snowballing, better said, for to where the the amount of people I've been able to meet through this podcast, the amount of learning that I've made, I just I'm grateful to Heavenly Father every day for the blessing of being guided to a place where I can I can just learn more about how to draw my heart closer to the savior. And at the end of the day, no matter what we're gonna we're gonna say next, you know, when it comes to teaching, all we're doing is helping people just increase that light and knowledge of the love that our savior has for them, and that the temple is a very, the very sacred spot for them to feel that love.

Temple As Belonging, Not A Checklist

SPEAKER_02 6:40

You know, I I have a specific question exactly about that, but it's not time for it. But I think as as I was preparing and thinking of different questions to ask, uh this question kind of stood out to me like, oh, this is one that we gotta. So we'll we'll get to it around what you just said, but I'm excited about that one. But first off, if you're temple bound, how many temples have you been to?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Um, I haven't tracked. I haven't tracked how many temples I but I've had a guest, I've had a guest who's been to every single temple in North America, and they've hit they've hit over a dozen uh in traveling. I will tell you, we don't travel now unless without going to the temples, it be it's become a family pastime. Not that my kids always love it, by the way. Like Heather and I are have fully, and we've like I said, we weren't born with this passion. It has evolved as we've received the blessings, and our boys are very into it as well. But there are times we're like, really? We're gonna go to the temple, and we do. So we've, you know, we've been to the Rome Temple, we were in Nairobi's temple, we were in South Africa's temple, we've been to some in Europe. We're we've been very grateful for the opportunity to help people across the globe who are newer to the church learn about this thing called temple. Um, so yeah, it's we've we've been to a few.

Traveling To Temples As A Family

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Awesome. So I would love to be selfish for just a second. So I have a son. Unlike Kevin, I don't have a plethora of children. I have three. And my oldest is in college, opened up his mission portal, is getting ready, you know, to go to the temple for the first time, or at least go to receive his endowments for the first time. And it's been interesting because my husband is currently a bishop in our ward. And so he, my husband, has been really focused not only on, okay, how can we help prepare our son, but how can I help prepare the youth for the temple? And you said something just a second ago that really stuck out to me and is runs parallel with something my husband was just thinking about. Forgive me for like a long question. Um, but he was preparing to teach the youth a class on the temple for like last Sunday. We were having a Christmas lesson in Relief Society. He took all the youth and he talked about the temple. And what he felt so strongly about was making it feel real in their life, making it feel like something that they would want. Because so often we talk about you should go to the temple. Before you, you know, go on your mission, you will go to the temple. Before you get married, you know, how long before that do you want? And it's almost like there, it's something that you check off of a list before you do something else. And there's this new counsel that we've been talking about a little bit in our stake, and I think it's universal, that maybe after high school the youth consider going to the temple, right? And so my husband's like, how do you help them not say you should have to graduate from high school and then go to the temple? How do you help them want, desire that for themselves and feel that motivation internally? And so I would love to know how you lead with that, how you communicate that. You said something even in your introduction about what was in it for you that you discovered that was so beautiful and would be so motivating. How do you typically frame that for others?

Preparing Youth: Speak Their Language

Temple Worship And Mental Health

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I couldn't love that question anymore. That is such a great question. It might be the question that we're here to talk about today, because at the end of the day, we as human beings, we aren't going to be motivated to act unless we understand its intrinsic value to us in a way that's meaningful. So, how do we as parents or leaders support this rising generation in a way to where we're talking about eternal things and all the shoulds of life, but make it to where it's organic and real for them to want to go? And here's here's the short answer is by applying it to them in their own language around the things that they care about. And so here's what I mean a big mistake I've I've made myself and I've seen a lot is that we want to go in and talk about, you know, the five covenants and why that's so great, and start to, you know, get into the meat of of the what the temple covenants are. Right. And at the end of the day, what we want is the product. There's the purpose, and then there's the product. What's the end in mind? And then not even just that, but what's the end in mind for a teenager? And so what we have found, and this is really one of my greatest passions about Temple Bone, I think that was an inspired question, is that in my journey, we have come to realize the power of the temple ceremony and the way it brings us to the savior as an antidote to the dramatically increasing, rising emotional disease and struggles that our youth are going through. Better said, better said, temple revelation and temple connection is one of the greatest ways to relieve anxiety and depression. That's a bold statement, but let me give you some facts as to why that matters. First of all, the church news released an article not a couple of months ago that I spoke across my stake and in some other stakes talking about this actual study that was done internally to determine if temple attendance and worship actually move the needle in people's anxiety and depression. And the results were staggering. But this is something that's not new. This was researched initially. Um, there's a New York Times article called Do You Know? It came out in 20, in the early 2010s. This was like just a few years to a handful of years after the the release of cell phones. Okay. They had released cell phones and anxiety and depression rates were rising dramatically. And so they did this. This group of non-church related uh educators were doing this research study. They wanted to find out what makes the difference between a child who launches in a child well and successfully and independent and confident versus one who doesn't. And they had this theory that they were going to test. What if it was connected to feeling like they belonged to their family history? And so they this do you know study, and I can send you a copy, you can put in the link. It's an actual study that was like it was a subjective study. It was like, do you know where your grandparents met? Do you know things you would only know if you had family dinner and connected to your family and had these discussions?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

And what they found, and this is like in the New York Times article, said that the results were staggering. That we found that the people who had higher scores on that test correlated dramatically with lower anxiety, depression, and greater launching success. So it boils down to this simple concept when it comes to youth. When I go speak to a group of youth, and it's my favorite thing to do is to go speak to a group of youth, whether it's a girls' conference or whatever, is I spend the first half just talking about my own anxiety that I suffered with dramatically in high school, which by the way, I think is is everyone to some degree, but I just really struggled with it. And then so we want to relate to their pain. If we're gonna really make this impactful for youth, we've got to first make sure they can feel from us that we are on that page, that we see it. Even if we can't totally empathize, that we want to, and that we understand that where their struggles are. Once they feel that connection, they're gonna hear whatever we say afterwards. So what we say next is the antidote is belonging. One word. If we can create a belonging to where we can go to church or school and feel seen and heard and accepted and loved, that is really the cure. And this thing called temple is what ties us to this eternal family, angels on the other side of the veil. So as we go and we learn more about our eternal nature, we learn that we belong to something bigger, we'll actually get support here and now to help us through the struggles of anxiety and depression. That's what I lead on for the people that I've been working with. And it's been a game changer because they they don't see it as like another checkbox. They see it as like a what it is, a resource on steroids. It is an eternal resource that is meant literally to create light and hope in the darkest of nights in their minds.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

I have to be honest, that's not what I expected you to say.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Me either.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Like, and yeah, I I was expecting something and and you know, you had said something about the personal revelation that you can receive. And I really expected it to tie directly to that. That, you know, it is the the place where God can talk to us. And if he doesn't talk to us there, he talks to us because we're going there and spending time there. I expected something like that. This is such, I had never thought of it as the antidote, as you put it, to some of these things that are so intense and part of their, you know, experience in their teenage years. That, and not just that it is, you know, the the temple kind of is the opposite of that, but that it's feeling a sense of belonging, not just to a family here on earth, but to something so, so much bigger. And it puts all of that into perspective in the temple. What a fantastic way to start this discussion.

Empathy First, Then Invitations

SPEAKER_01 16:11

That is I appreciate you saying that. I just want to add a couple things to it because at the end of the day, again, that's what we care about. We care about personal revelation. There are some very, very strong youth who somehow, by the gifts that they've been given, who do care about that. But most of them just don't want to feel awkward. Like, right, sure. Like when we think about what they want, and there's that gap because we we just we've progressed so slowly by the time we hit our age that we don't see the journey that we've taken to get to where we are in understanding these things. And so the youth, and by the way, this isn't the solution, but it is something that has been very effective as we've talked to youth groups about it. And usually when I talk, and I'm you know, I'll mention just the struggles of emotional pain. There's usually a couple youth afterwards that are that quietly come up in tears saying, I didn't know anyone else ever felt this way. And we talk about statistics like over 60% of youth struggle with some degree of anxiety or uh depression disorder, how suicide has tripled in the last 20 years, directly correlative to cell phones, uh, specifically with young women. When we start sharing the actual stats of mental health, we learn, you know, we learn all about these um plagues of the latter days and we think we're expecting more COVID. We're talking about this. These are the diseases that we're talking about. And it's not by accident that the the onset of these technologies that have given us so many good things for temple and family history work that have also brought so much evil are directly correlated with the number of temples that we're building. These things are needed, it's because the Lord needs these temples on the earth so that we have access to his love, which is the only antidote. And it's when we frame it from that perspective of like, this is where you belong versus this is what you need to do, then it becomes a different discussion. And then we can frame the covenants and the in the inner workings in a different way. And we can talk about those things as well, because that's an important part of the discussion. But I think it's really important to understand more than anything else that God's love and empathy meets them where they are, wherever that is, no matter how lonely they feel. And it boils down to two words you matter. If that's the message we can leave with them as we talk about these things, that their existence really matters and that they're not alone in their suffering, when they can feel that connection, they're gonna open themselves to anything else we want to talk about. And it's so empathic.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

It's meeting it's meeting them where they are. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah, that's not what I yeah, I didn't. Oh, yeah. How do you teach the youth? But well, whoa, that's I know that was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Makes total sense though. It does. I again that was that was my journey. I was I was a parent and have multiple times sensed, and I will more than likely feel it off and on the rest of my life. I feel, I feel so many times in my life completely disconnected from the spirit and the Lord, despite, and this isn't, you know, lack, I'm sure I'm not perfect in my obedience. It's not because of that, it's just because the weight of some of the trials we go through as parents in particular. I I just that's I've come to to find it myself. And so that's why I go is for the healing balm of that element. And then you start learning about these other things, and revelation kicks in, and and before you know it, it becomes the most sacred spot on the earth for me. Uh and I can I can talk about it from that place. And I I just think we all go through that as parents. I think that's you know what what unites us in the latter days.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Agreed. Agree.

Motivating Adults With Grace

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Okay, that's youth. Let's talk about adults. Yeah. Because I I my current calling is elderscorn president, and I am totally passionate about going to the temple. And for not dissimilar, two dissimilar reasons that you you shared with us. Um it was I I won't go into its stories now, but I mean, it's like, oh my goodness, it has completely changed the life of me, my wife, and my family by going to the temple. And I I would love nothing more than to help the adults go to the temple. And I remember I was the Elders Quorm president when COVID hit first time, and actually before that, when when they combined Eldest Quorm and uh high priest together, I was Eldest Quorm for the Elders Corm president for the first time. And I remember saying, Hey, we all need to go to the temple. And I remember one brother said, I'm sorry, I've got three kids, and you just want me to drop everything and go to the temple so many times, you know, how many ever times a month or whatever, and you think I could just do that? I'm like, Yeah, actually, and you could, because it's you will, you'll be so blessed. You you you just don't know yet, but you you will. If you do it, you will. And so there, I know, and it goes to it goes from that to other people are like, yeah, man, I work at the temple, I go to the temple all the time, and it's just the best. And they testified as well. How do we teach adults the how do we teach adults to inspire them to attend the temple more often? And in fact, recently I said I said to the eldest carpet, and I said, I'm gonna say this the wrong way, but I want you to go as many times until it hurts. I want until it's really uncomfortable that you're going that many times, go that many times. And that was the wrong way to say it, but I didn't know what any other way to say it. So how do you teach, how do you help adults?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Yeah, I love that question as well. I think that's so powerful. By the way, you remind me of Peter in that way. Like you're the guy that jumps off the boat to swim to the savior. Like you just gotta, we just gotta go. Yeah. I just want to do it. Yeah. And I there's so much power. I would just want to acknowledge, again, I'm not an authority in this stuff, but just as one brother to another, I see, I see someone who's so passionate about it that your your passion and your enthusiasm is the beginning. I think having that kind of like deep embedded, like, hey guys, I don't know what else to say. I've I've done this thing that I can't really explain, but it's so worth it. Please go and go as often as you can, and there's kickback and all these things. And and so, you know, Elder Bednar gave an incredible training on the temple a number of years ago, um, where he talked about the covenant path. And in it, he he had these children hold up signs, and one was um receiving the priesthood, one was the temple, one was Jesus, one was serving a mission. So this will bleed a little bit between like young adults to older adults.

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Sure.

Start With Jesus, Not Tasks

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Is that is that we oftentimes don't understand like the way the path is supposed to function. You know, at the end of the day, we we think it's like you start with going, you know, you go to the temple, then you go on a mission, and then you go to the savior. It's it's the reverse. You know, we come to our savior, and there's another great talk from Elder Bednar, who's but that name is eluding me, where he talks specifically about the ability for us to become cleansed and receive an atonement for our sins and a revelation of knowing of God in that way, then inspires young men in particular to go get the Melchizedek priesthood. And then for for men and women to go to the temple. And so we go to the savior first to be cleansed, and then we go, and then the temple is where the ultimate crowning jewel of that end in mind and that covenant path. And he was really good to indicate that although the steps look the same, the journey is unique to each. So what it looks like to Kevin looks like Peter to me. It jumps off the boat, swims there, goes really hard. Other people have to honor the seasons of life that they're in and recognize that they're not going to be void of the blessings by having the right intention to go when their circumstances make it hard for them to go. And this is where it becomes unique into each person's piece. So to the brother who I love that kicked against another thing to do. And I love it because I am the king of getting. I mean, for me, nothing, there's nothing more exciting in the world than canceled plans in my world. When someone cancels plans with me, it's just like the euphoria of like, oh right, you know, it's like there's so much on our plates all the time. But if we do have little kids, we're in seasons of life where what temple worship is going to be unique to each of us, gate based on our geography, based on our our family circumstance, based on our faith. And it's all good as long as we put this the savior at the front end of that. So if we can't go to the temple because we have young kids as often, it's not that we shouldn't try to get babysitters and do those things, but we also know that the Lord is so full of grace. He loves us so much that if we took that time just as okay, while my kids are napping, I'm gonna pull out and just do some family history or I'm gonna learn about some temples, or just put some effort, Lord loves effort. We can actually become temple bound in our hearts still, even if we can't hit that weekly thing. So giving grace around that and taking kind of the pressure off of it, because I'm a very organized, task-oriented person. I actually tracked how many times I went to the temple this last year because that's how I operate. My wife is not that way, she's an artist, she's that to her is death. You put organization around it, you take the love out of it. And the Lord made her and the Lord made me. And so we go about our path in our beautiful disjointed dance, and it works because we try. So I think when we talk about, you know, getting people motivated to want to go, I think first and foremost, Kevin, you sharing your love is the biggest thing. Right behind it is the blessings. And if you haven't seen the videos on YouTube that are compilation videos by the church that just show all the blessings back to back, there's two videos in particular that just show all the blessings back to back. The discussion isn't like, should we go? It's a matter of like what blessings stood out to you. Guys, what blessings in this like stood out to you? Which of these seem like something you would really want and why? What are the challenges that we face in your case as men in this latter day? What are the case? What are the blessings here that we correlate with that? And then, of course, that loving invitation to do all that we can around it. I have seen, Kevin, um, I have seen our stake did a challenge where it was like, hey, we want to do a four-week challenge, you go once a week for four weeks challenge. And it was like, sign up if you want. And if you do, if you feel comfortable, we'd like to hear about your experience on the back end. And that was a really cool way of doing it too, because it wasn't so much like if you don't do this, you're bad. It was more like, hey, if you're up for something to just kind of jumpstart this and you just think there might be something more that you need from God, we're creating this opportunity. But the but other people watching that creates that experience of like, oh, that sounds really special. So um, that was a lengthy answer, but I just think in the end, it's the enthusiasm. I think it's the focus on the promised blessings, and of course, understanding that path that it starts with the savior first. Otherwise, these things just feel like tasks.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Good point. Really good point. Points, plural.

Practical Prep For First Endowment

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Okay, so here's let's lead in now a little bit to the nitty-gritty as you talk about the temple. Because, you know, clearly what I heard you say in both answers is that you have to come from a place of empathy first and foremost. And then I also heard you say in both answers that the the point is to lead with the blessings, like, you know, kind of talking with the youth specifically. I love that we said, and look at what it can alleviate, look at what it can help to heal, help to create, help, you know, you to overcome. And then same with the adults, you lead with the blessings. So now there are things that you can and you can't talk about. Once you've talked about that, you also said in the youth answer, then you can talk about covenants and promises and you know how it all plays out. I personally have a tendency to want to say, okay, this is what to expect. Let me lay it out. Let me tell you what I've learned. Let me tell you what these things mean that I understand. Let me take out my old testament and let's bust through the wrong terrible idea. Terrible idea. So I don't know if it's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I like that you do that. I think there's value in doing that. For some people, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

I know, but for some people it's not. So I really do try to because I nerd out a little bit when I go to the temple, like I'm always trying to understand more. And I've actually had to, in order to receive revelation, stop my brain. I have to tell my brain to shut up and open my heart. It's a that's my harder exercise. So sorry, I digress. What are some of the things that you want to make sure that you talk about as you're helping people actually prepare to go?

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah, so there's there's that technical piece, you know, the Martha and the Mary, the technical and the purpose-driven. We have to, we really do have to touch upon both. I think what you're talking about is more when someone's committing to go to the temple for the first time, like we're getting a date on the calendar. How do we prepare for them? It's a very different preparation in those months leading up to an actual first live ordinance than it is in those earlier days. The earlier days is hyper focused on just the feeling and the correlation between what matters to them and what they're getting from going. It's like this piece of like, you know, you know, you love the savior, this is a big reason to go, but he also blesses you with mentally, physically, spiritually for going. Later on, we start getting into the technical preparation for it. And that's why Mark Matthews, who was a guest on my show last month, wrote, in my mind, the single most important book that can be written on uh understanding the temple endowment. And when we talk about temple, there's a lot of elements to it, but the endowment is usually what we're focused on. And I think there's good reason as to why. Because, you know, baptisms for the dead, that's a very easy concept to grasp for the youth. And the endowment really begins in the initiatory stage, which is something I didn't realize. I didn't realize it was all continuously one process. They know about the end in mind in celestial marriage, but this middle section here that book is a great book to reference. I would ask every parent to read that book prior to preparing their youth for going to the temple for their first experience or leader, because it really does help teach different concepts that would be this would be like a series of podcast episodes, but I'll just share a couple of key ones that I think will be vital. One of the things that uh Mark Matthews teaches in this book is this concept of the gift and the wrapping paper. And this is really good, uh, Kevin. I loved your authentic share of your kids' experiences. This is more for the kid who's gonna go, what was that?

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

So what happens is, and he tells the true story about when he was a kid, he was he had this gift that was wrapped. Clearly, it was an encyclopedia. He could tell from the wrapping, he was super bummed by it. But inside was cut out, was a Nintendo video game that you know. So he he didn't know the gift from the wrapping paper. And so there is a way for us to explain the origins of the temple being Old Testament times, and he describes it as old testament wrapping paper. The the gift that we are given in the endowment is wrapped in this old testament wrapping paper that we don't need to worry about. We don't need to worry about, like as parents, especially me, as I'm learning these things, I'm like, I want to teach them all about the symbolism. I want to talk about what we want to talk about is the gift and why and what why that endowment is so great. And that's where we can talk about those five covenants from a place of like, hey, these aren't that different than what you've already promised at baptism, right? But it's the difference between a string and a rope, the connection and binding to our savior, it's a deeper connection around these elements. And so, um, Mike King, who was also a guest on my show, he said it like this. He was actually at my I flew both of these guests flew in and stayed at my home. Sorry, lucky you. Mark Matthews stayed at a hotel. Mike King stayed at my home. But they Mike was telling me he was like, he he was with my oldest son, Ethan. And he said, Ethan, when you go to the temple for the first time, here's all I want you to focus on. How you feel. And then at the end of it, you're gonna go to the celestial room and all your family's gonna be like, what do you think? What do you feel? And you may not feel or think anything. Or you might have some thoughts that aren't like, you know, anything other than just like, oh, I saw God. It's like he's he said, I want you to go spend some time by yourself and just pray and be alone and ask how you feel about yourself in that celestial room. Just take time and and see how you feel about yourself, not just how you feel, but how do you feel about yourself alone? Let your family leave and just leave you there for a few minutes and then go home and journal that. He goes, That's your first temple experience. And I think giving them that low bar of like expectation, and then we'll talk more about the what more, but just that book is a huge help for preparing uh the adults to help us hit a couple of key concepts just to help preview things without going into so much detail that they get lost in the detail.

Focus On Feeling Over Details

SPEAKER_00 33:42

That's awesome. It's on my bedside table right now, actually. But I've only read about five pages so far. But I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yeah, the first chapter, honestly, I told Mark this too. I said the first chapter, I was like, Yeah, I get it. This is really low level. It's for people who are, but by the middle of the book, I was learning things I had never known. And I and it's it's so it's so beautiful because it will hit you wherever you are, but it more importantly will equip us. You know, preparing people, by the way, I'm not an expert in preparing, but the thing that we did that I I really appreciated for my second son, Alex, who's in on a mission in Texas, is there's a really good YouTube video where someone in five minutes gives a really cool explanation of some of the clothing, yeah, some of the elements. Maybe you've seen that. That was great. Yes. And then from there, we with our with our other son who's now preparing to go, we're having more of these Mark Matthew-based conversations about just the purpose and meaning of the five covenants. And that's really where we're leaving it, you know. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah. Yeah. I and I think you make a good point with, and that's where we're leaving it. Like we don't need to give them a preview of the entirety of the, you know, experience. We can let them go and focus on what they feel. That's really great counsel. Focus on what you feel and focus on what you feel about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Yes. I thought Mark and Mike, you know, they they've both been institute directors for a very long time. And uh, Mark is a state president in Utah over a very large student ward. And he wrote the book because he legitimately just wanted to put in pay in writing what he had been saying to these kids who were getting ready to go to the temple for the first time. He's like, I just want to give them an asset that they can read on their own time and really get into. The problem is a lot of kids don't read books. So I think it's useful for us to read them and then go to them and just kind of talk about different elements as they're as they're up to it. But yeah, man, it's a I I'm always looking for ways to to improve my ability to teach, especially to those young adults, what their first experience is gonna be like.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah, fantastic. I appreciate all those insights.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

All right, so you I'm gonna I'm gonna ask the question now.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

Oh, I was gonna ask if that was coming, Pat. Good. I've been waiting to know what the question is.

Centering Everything On Christ

SPEAKER_02 35:54

The question. Okay, here we go. So back a few years ago, President Nelson. He in one of his talks, uh let me, it is called the drawing on the drawing the power of Jesus Christ into our lives. Love the talk. Um he says in there, quote, there is no amorphous entity called the atonement, upon which we may call for succor, healing, forgiveness, or power. Jesus Christ is the source. Right? So he's saying he's saying basically he goes on to say, when we say things like the enabling power of the atonement, it's not quite it's not quite correct because it's the enabling power of Jesus Christ, right? And so, and so we and and as I would and I don't know why this popped in my head as I was thinking about the temple, but I all of a sudden I hadn't realized this earlier. But I do this, I'm like, go to the temple, because when you go to the temple, you will receive these blessings and revelation and uh and I keep forgetting that. Oh wait, no, that's actually Jesus, right? Temple is on temple will just get you to Jesus, but it's Jesus that we need to focus on. So how can we, as we talk about the temple, really focus on the savior?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Absolutely, and it's so funny because you're you're you're calling me out without you realizing it. Is that um that was something else that I remember learning from Mike King in this case was that as we're going to the temple, you know, or after the first time, his big advice was, and I wish I had remembered to say this, was then to go back and look for everything and how it would tie to the savior. So I think that's the key thing for all of us is to almost play this game when we go, um, unless we're, you know, searching for something more more deep and meaningful. If we're just going because it's like we feel compelled, but we don't know why, to look. Why does that how does that correlate to the savior? What does that have to do with the savior? What does it have to do with his love for me? And when those temple, you know, when the temple has evolved over time, and now there's the subtitles and those types of things, I remember walking out of that first time going, I understand so much more about the savior because I came here today. And there's so many more layers behind that, but they have to come through revelation. The Lord, just like his parables when he was on the earth, he doesn't, he's not gonna spell it out in black and white for us because who we become in that transformation of learning is the whole point of us being here, besides experiencing joy and sorrow. So if we can go to the temple from a place of like, okay, Lord, please help reveal to me or show to me an area where I can see a connection to the savior and start drawing those connections, that's when I think we can really get greater access to the light and knowledge he wants us to have, which is ultimately just about him, the savior. It's the only thing that matters. And I know, and I want to go back and say real quick, because I was thinking of this, no matter what we say when we're talking about the temple, I just think we can do a better job. I know I can, of just always bringing the savior into everything I say and do. Right. So, you know, even when we're talking about the clothing, it's like, yeah, we're being, you know, clothed in righteousness as a symbol of us becoming and transforming to be more like the savior. Whatever we're gonna talk about, really just finding an intentional path back to the savior, it's it's gonna matter more to them later, but it they'll never question that piece of it, which is the most important piece, right? I think I even I get lost in that sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Yeah, I think it's really easy for me to do that. And I've never delineated that before. And I should have. I mean, that will duh, yeah, of course, right? But then I started thinking, how would I do that? How do I bridge that gap? I have all these phrases. For example, you know, the um we could say um when we talk about the endowment and going for the first time, we can say uh the more proper way of saying it is to receive your endowment, but we can say taking out their endowment, right? That that was a a phrase that was used a lot, taking out your endowment. Oh wait, actually, to understand it more, it's receiving the endowment. And so then our verbiage changes to reflect more what it's actually about. And so I started thinking, how how can I change my language? And and I don't know if you have any insight into this, but how can I change my language so that when I talk about the temple, um, here's one way, the house of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yes, right.

Language Matters: Define Our Words

SPEAKER_02 40:45

When I talk about the house of the Lord, that I can point back to him each time I do.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

You know, that's a really good question. When you start asking, I started getting nervous because I didn't know what I was gonna think of. But um I'm putting you on the spot, Will. No, it's a really it's a really important question, but something happened recently in our home that um I think is is is like at least a foundation to start talking on, which is um you were talking about the word endowment. We use so much language that we even think we know, but we don't. Right. I think a great opportunity to bring the savior back into these things to help people really feel that connection is to go back to the origin of these words. We were talking about the word that exact same situation, you know, taking out our endowment. Well, no, you're receiving an endowment. The better question is what is an endowment? What is it? And there was um one of my guests said this, and we were talking about it at my house, that, you know, we know that an endowment is a gift if you look up a definition, but why are we using that word intentionally versus the word gift? Why don't they just call it a gift? And it's because when I, using this analogy, if I'm gonna donate money to my university and I send them$500, that's a gift. And I'll get like an thank you email or a Christmas card. But when I donate five million dollars, it's so impactful. They name a library after me and it's called an endowment because it's so impactful that the and so then the better question is why would the Lord call your experience an endowment? And that I think seeds the better questions of like, okay, so if it's all about the savior and and the blessings we're receiving is so massive that instead of writing a library with our name on it, his name gets written in the fleshy tables of our heart because it's so big. What could that possibly be? And then we can look at some scriptures from it. We can look at the same material, but now we're seeing it from the light of its meaning and its greater impact. So maybe some, maybe just for this is I'm saying this out loud for myself, maybe it's a lot more of that. Just defining these words with the definition, going, okay, so what does that mean in terms of the savior's love for me or how the savior is involved in this?

SPEAKER_02 43:02

I think uh Julie and I are big fans of taking words that we use all the time and diving in and saying, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do you really know what that means? And we you're right. We need to do that with endowment. We need to do that with ceiling, we need to do that with initiatory. I mean, things that things that we just throw around, we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Well, well, no, really, what does it mean? I think that is, and I've never gone through that, through that exercise with the word endowment. I need to know. That's that's gonna be my next thing tomorrow. I need to do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

And Chat GPT would be a sun such a fun way to do that too, because you can just have conversations and get that parallel. But it's like it's like I had another guest, um, another author, and her name's alluding me just because I'm like that. But she she she was really big on using defining the word law because in the in the temple we make five covenants and they're called laws. And she was she was just she was making a differentiation or A delineation between law as like a control, like the law, versus the law of gravity, which is a description of a principle. And so in religion in particular, it can be understood in both lights, one incorrectly, like control, and the other one more like. And so she said, sometimes it's really nice when you understand the definition to use synonyms to help further clarify it and to give definition to this, give meaning to the savior's involvement. So she her recommendation is when we're teaching it to say, you know, we say law of chastity, but what we really mean is the love of chastity. Because it's like gravity, it just exists. These are forces in the universe that compel us to be more like our savior. But instead of law, we're gonna call it love. The love of chastity, the love of obedience, the love of all these things. Because when we learn these things and live these things, we are so blessed, we learn to love them. And that love is our savior's love for us. It's why he died for us. And in that feeling, we become more like him in small ways, time over time over time. So I think, I think, um, I think language matters. And as if we're looking for ways to bring the savior in it, I think defining those things through him will be a good thing for me to do moving forward for sure.

Laws As Daily Patterns Of Love

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Wow. Okay, it's so interesting because you the question that I was just gonna ask you, you just answered, but I want to make explicit what the question was. Sure. Because I think that this is an interesting insight. When um when you asked the question, why would the Lord call it an endowment? After you explained an endowment like a library versus, you know, like that it has so much value type of a thing. Um, why would the Lord call this an endowment? I started thinking about, okay, let's take that same question, why would the Lord fill in the blank? And I started thinking about why would the Lord choose to have us make covenants related to these five laws? Why these ones? And so, in a way, I think you answered the question. I'm just gonna put this forth and then ask you to expand on it. Um, Anthony Sweat talks about these covenants as patterns of daily living. And that's been really profound for me because I've started to think about how, for example, I can the law of sacrifice is a pattern of daily living for me. And it caused some real reflection. It's a little bit easier to see it, you know, in the law of the gospel and maybe a little bit easier to see in obedience and in chastity, but why like how sacrifice and consecration? How am I doing that daily? You know, like those types of questions. So why, though, would it be these? And I thought, if they are patterns of daily living, what you said is they're patterns of daily living that help us to become more like our savior Jesus Christ. So why these? Because these are the laws, the love that will help us to become most like our Savior Jesus Christ if we use them as patterns of daily living. Gradually we become who we have the potential to become. It's gonna look different for everyone, but who we have the potential to become and who we can be as a model, um, modeled after him, I guess I would say. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 47:22

That's so beautiful. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Kevin, you're gonna say something. Yeah, it's just clear. I mean, just like you parted the heavens and the sun shone down. I was like, oh, and of course. Yeah, yeah, Julie.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Yeah, it feels applicable, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

It feels connected to the savior, applicable. And what's cool about it being framed in the temple, always from this place of the plan of salvation, beginning with you know, the pre-existence and going on into the eternities, is that it it ties these daily patterns to the heavens, to eternity, to our savior. So it's really neat to think about how it's these small and simple things, and that's where we can tie those scriptures in when we're teaching this, right? Like those small and simple things, literally, those drops of water that become the Grand Canyon or that small seed that becomes the oak tree, our ability for these daily patterns to evolve into something uh eternal and impactful is so cool. I love how you explain that.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Thank you. I think it also gives purpose to our decisions, like our daily decisions. We start to kind of think about them as things that matter. You know, how are we spending our time, etc.?

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah.

Key Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Interesting thought, too, by the way, that you just mentioned that it helps us understand at wherever stage in our development that is, that it these decisions matter. Because we started this whole conversation with helping understand, teach the youth that one concept that they matter. So what you said almost ties it full of circle because when we can help people at the very earliest stage understand that they matter and they belong, you know, because of Christ's love. And then we go through this ascending of the mountain as we call it, going to the temple and learning these different things and the laws and the love of all these elements that really just tie to these daily patterns. That's what it kind of comes back to, is just one day at a time, one pattern at a time, doing the best that we can, uh, using repentance frequently and just recognizing at the end of it that Jesus Christ is the author and the finisher of our faith, and that we can't, we wouldn't, none of this would happen without him. And that's why we love him so much and we do whatever whatever he asks, because he loves us.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

You know, I was going, I was just about to ask. I was just about to ask, can you kind of sum up everything that we just talked about? And you just did it. I mean, that was that was wow, you read my mind.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

Well, you guys have been so great to talk with because I feel like there's just this, you know, authentic discussion around this thing because we're all in it together. We all no one needs the savior any more or less than anyone else. So the more we can hear these things as we're on a walk or working out, or just like us literally here together, it just reminds us of this thing that we're we are we are a family, we're all in this together. So, no, I appreciate you guys creating the space. And I feel so honored and grateful for the chance to have spent this sacred time with you guys. Thank you so much for the invite.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

This has been really wonderful. Thank you. I'm excited to go take some of the things we learned today and run with them and go learn even more because this I really see this as a springboard for more learning each time we interview someone else, and my our minds just go, whoa, yeah, well, yeah, it's just a springboard for more learning. So thank you for being a springboard. I appreciate that. Sincerely. Thank you. It's been great. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Thank you for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's content, please leave a review and share the episode with others so that people who are looking for this information can find it. Thank you again for listening. Until next time.