Overcoming Shame, Anxiety, and the "Worthiness Gap" in the Temple with Come Study With Me Podcast

In this special crossover episode, we sit down with Ellis and Eddie, the dynamic hosts of the Come Study With Me podcast. We dive deep into the "psychological warfare" of the adversary that targets young adults today, specifically the heavy burden of shame and the false idea that worthiness equals flawlessness.

From navigating anxiety during endowment sessions to the "Little Caesars vs. the Gym" analogy of post-temple life, this episode is a raw, honest look at what it means to keep showing up for the Lord when you feel like you aren't enough.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The "Busyness" Trap: How the pressure of internships and finance degrees (shoutout to BYU Marriott School) can become a tool of deception.
• Faith vs. Infallibility: Discussing President Holland’s powerful reminder that the Gospel asks for effort, not perfection.
• Temple Anxiety: A vulnerable look at why some struggle with endowment sessions and how to find peace through initiatories and sealings instead.
• Trusting the Keys: What to do when you have a difficult relationship with your Bishop, and why his priesthood keys matter more than his personality.
• The "Unstoppable" Savior: Eddie shares a stirring message on Christ's tenacity and how we can become "bellwethers" for those lost in the dark.
• Mental Health & Resilience: Real talk on antidepressants, grieving the loss of loved ones, and why "putting on your own oxygen mask" is a spiritual necessity.

Resources Mentioned:

• Book: The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Elder Neil L. Anderson
• Talk: "Your Repentance Doesn't Burden Jesus; It Brightens His Joy" – Sister Tamara Runia
• Scripture: D&C 61:2; Philippians 4:13

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU!

Our community grows when we share our light. Please scroll down to the comment section and let us know:

• What is one "small win" you’ve had with your mental health this week?
• Do you have a topic or a specific question about the temple you want us to dive into next?

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

What if the thing standing between you and the temple isn't sin but shame? Today I'm sitting down with two young adults from BYU who are doing something extraordinary. They're taking on the mental health crisis that's quietly destroying the confidence of their generation. We're talking about belonging, repentance, and what to do when you leave the temple and then fall short. Eddie and Ellis from the Come Study With Me podcast are here, and I promise you this one just hits different. All right, so Eddie and Ellis, I first want to start off by just telling you both how much I love you guys and your show. I think what you guys are doing in terms of your podcast is so needed in this space because come follow me is, of course, the way that we are being guided to really dive into the scriptures. But what you guys do on that Come Study With Me podcast for young adults is so much in the lens of how they how your world is being shaped. And I just want to thank you both before we get started on what you're building, because I think it's changing the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

We appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

No, that means a lot. It really means a lot. Okay, let's get right into this thing called worthiness. Because at the end of the day, I think where the adversary attacks, the mental health of not just my kids, but people in college is around worthiness. So, how have you guys, how do you guys see that your generation is being attacked in that way that's different than maybe other generations?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

I think that that's big. We talked about this earlier today on our a uh on our podcast, Come Study with me. And we were talking about how uh King Hezekiah, when he was leading the children of Israel, there was a bunch of, was it the Assyrians that was taunting them incessantly and mocking their faith and really putting them in a in an environment where their faith was challenged. And so how do we how did we articulate it? It was psychological warfare.

unknown 1:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

That was, and I think, at least for me, I've noticed that more missionaries are going into the field and getting to the field and being like, I'm not worthy to be here. Totally. I don't know if I don't know if that was something with your generation that maybe you felt, but with I feel like with us, the people that I would talk to, it's like there was no evidence that they had for that. They just felt so, I mean, unworthy and not, I don't know how I would put that. Just small to be there.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

There's a shaming. There's a there's an indefinite attack, I think, on your generation that I think he's all the adversary has always used these tools. It's not like he has different weapons in his arsenal, but his his degree of force, I think, is changing because of the urgency around it. And like in my generation, that did happen, but it really feels like in your generation, people are coming, like you said, people are coming home feeling that they're unworthy when they're not. Yeah, and there's there's a degree of attack around being enough. There's, I think, if there's a word that is missing in this upcoming generation that you guys have battled through is belonging. So, so let's talk about that. We're talking about the temple and those elements. How do you think the adversary is attacking your generation prior to going to the temple? And then we'll kind of go from there. How is he trying to prevent you guys from going from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

You know, I I'm a finance student in at the Married School of Business here at PYU. And I feel like one of the biggest attacks is busyness. Oh, I'm too busy. I gotta prep for internships, I gotta prep for interviews, I gotta prep for this, I gotta prep for this case competition, whatever. And so I don't have enough time for the Lord. That is like I feel like that's definitely one of the biggest uh tools of deception, you could say.

After The Temple Then Falling Short

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, I mean, even going through the temple before a mission, it's more of it's still the I don't have time. It's just not a high priority. I think it's almost like we have uh it's it's been told to us so many times that we don't understand like the effect that it could have for ourselves. And so I don't think some people won't go because they're like, I it's just something I've always done. I don't know it for myself. And so that's why I found it really interesting going to the temple consistently, because at first I was like, it's just something I do. And then you spend some time like out of the temple or maybe not going consistently, and it's like, no, now I know why I want to go because I've learned that for myself.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

So so do you guys have you ever had those experiences where you go and then like you're not perfect afterwards? You know, something that I I really like to talk a lot about is is when people go to the temple, they come back and then they sin, and then there's this like, oh great, now I've gone to the temple, I've screwed up, now what? Like, what what's the what do you how do you feel that's uh working in your guys' world? How's the adversary playing into that and what do you guys do about it?

SPEAKER_00 4:53

I feel oh, that's actually a really good question. That's a really good question. It was um I think it was President Holland. No, no, I don't think. I know it was President Holland. I've read it this morning. President Holland said this gospel asked this oh okay. This gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ asked for faith, not infallibility.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

I love that. Not faith, not infallibility.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

And for me that gives me a lot of hope because we know that that helps us know that repentance is plan A, not plan B. And so we go to the temple seeking spiritual momentum, and you know, Satan has tripwires the second we get out. Seriously. He has tripwires the second we get out. Um, but if we can go in and knowing, like we hey, like, it's kind of like you go to the gym and you walk out and you see little Caesars. That's literally how it is at the promo bosses. I'm telling you, you got a taco, you got a taco spot on the right, and little Caesars. And Taco Bell across the street. Taco Bell across the street. It's ludicrous.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

It's so true. I mean, I feel that too, but I think with the way your generation's being attacked, it's like this real, like, oh, see, you're not, you're not as good as you, you know, like all these elements. And I think that the shaming of like that comes into judgment is usually internal. It's an idea of how it works. And it doesn't help that you're looking online and social media and you see people who are living at their best lives all the time, right? Like that's just really hard.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah. So, well, let me ask you this. When you ask about, you know, coming out of the temple and sinning, are you talking about like mundane little sins or something that would, you know, put your worthiness in, you know, in the balance or at stake?

Anxiety In The Endowment Session

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Yes. Because because at the end of the day, like I do think those are two different discussion points that we should hit upon. So, like, yeah, you come out of the temple, you you stub your toe, you swear up a storm. Like, I still think the adversary attacks on that for at least me he does. He definitely attacks that. I don't know. Do you guys experience it as well?

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Oh, 100%. I actually experience that in the temple more often than outside. That and that's really Yeah, that's really strange to me. And I think that comes back to where the internal part comes in. Because I personally find it really hard to sit through an endowment session because I will get so anxious and so overwhelmed in my own head about everything I could be doing better or things that I did wrong or where I don't measure up, that I will sit and just cry. And so I personally I only do endowment sessions about every other month because that's as much as I can handle. Um otherwise, I'll go to initiatory in the ceiling because I love to hear those blessings and that brings me a lot of peace. Um, but that is an experience that I like had never heard about in the temple. Where, and because my mom's like, I love the temple. And that is something that I I got from my mom is the love from the temple. But sitting in there being overwhelmed by your own thoughts was something that I had never, I'd never heard. And so that was a new experience for me, and I've had it many a times.

Shame, Repentance, And Jesus’ Joy

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Thank you for sharing that. That's so vulnerable and real. While we're all in the share the mode of being authentic and sharing, I um I don't know what it was about endowment sessions, but for for years, it was just it would just produce anxiety in me. I think it's mostly because I I didn't feel like I could comfortably get up and just leave. I don't think it was necessarily like thoughts in my head or like the presentation. I just was suffering with anxiety so much so that I actually got claustrophobic. So I I would have to like medicate a little before I'd go in. Not not illegally, by the way, just for the audience, but like through the use of a uh a prescriptive medication that my doctor ordered, I just, I just there was something about it that just produced a little bit of tension for me. And I always had like these like panic attacks of like, well, if I can't get out of here, what if I what if I had a heart attack? And who's gonna, you know, just all those little things. But like when it comes to worthiness, I will tell you the most mental mental trauma I've ever gone through is playing in my mind my worthiness through the adversary, and how it's like, are you good enough? You know, and that's hard. So, how did how do you overcome that? Like, how do you overcome those those mental warfare games that you guys mentioned that that go on? Or how do you work through it or manage it?

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Yeah, I love that you say that. Sister Tamara Runya's talk from April 2025. Your repentance doesn't burden Jesus, it brightens his joy. That one, if you haven't listened to it, it's definitely it's such a language.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Did you say that again? That was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yeah. Your repentance doesn't burden Jesus Christ, it brightens his joy. And this is from Sister Runya. Satan, Satan, the great accuser, the deceiver, uses shame to keep us from God. Shame is darkness so heavy it feels that if you took it out of your body, it would have an actual weight or heft to it. Shame is a voice that beats you up saying, What were you thinking? Do you ever get anything right? Shame doesn't tell us we made a mistake, it tells us we are our mistakes. He may hide, or you may even hear hide. The adversary does everything in his power to keep the heaviness inside, telling us the cost is too high, that it will be easier if it if this stays in darkness, removing all hope. Satan is the theme of hope. And you need to hear this, so I'll say these words out loud. You are not the voice in your head or the mistakes you have made. You may need to say that out loud too. Tell Satan, not today, put him behind you.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Sister Runia said those words in conference, and I balled. Yes. Like you are not the voice in your head. That was huge. I think kind of going off of that, something that I do is not necessarily when I start replaying if I'm worthy, I start thinking of the things that that would make me worthy instead. Um, I love Elder Anderson's book, um, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness. And I have to shout out Eddie because he recommended it for me with like in a situation just like this. We went to the Deseret Book and bought one. But he goes over like some things in here that, you know, he says, sin will forever be a part of this mortal world. Sin draws us away from God, it diminishes our peace and joy, it inhibits us from receiving heavenly comfort and direction from the spirit, you know, it confines our progression and things like that. And I wrote down on the side, like, how do I know I need to go through maybe a bigger repentance process?

When You Are Not Sure Ask

SPEAKER_03 11:23

That's a great question, Alice. Like, because you said earlier, you know, small things are big things. And my my my my natural reaction was like, it's so hard to know sometimes what those are. Extreme cases are obvious. But like, yeah, please go into that. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

I actually studying for this and like going over some of these topics for this podcast, I wrote in my notes if you're not sure, ask. Your bishop is there to help you.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

And you can go to your bishop and counsel with him over these issues. And if you're like, well, I I don't know, he has a little more life experience than most YSAs do. And so he can tell you, you know, how are you feeling? Walk you through some of those feelings and um help you out with that. I mean, ultimately, if you're struggling to feel the spirit, that's something that you can counsel with your bishop about, whether you need to repent or not. So I think they are a great resource to utilize. Now, some people do struggle with their bishop. I've had that experience, but you can still find the savior through his keys.

Trusting The Keys When It’s Hard

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Yeah, let's let's talk about those moments. I think that's probably the like you said earlier, there's things that we don't talk about because we don't know how. I'd like to talk about that. What if we struggle with our bishop? Like, how do we navigate that element? And obviously on being mindful of you know, judgments and you know, the human nature of being imperfect and all that. So this isn't a criticism, it's like a real question of like if if I am wanting to clear the air, maybe I have done something that I know I need to talk to a bishop about, or maybe I'm just not sure. But there's something that's in the way between me and the bishop, and it could be it could be a lot of different things. But I I don't think I want to start that, but like, what do you what do you recommend people do in those situations?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, it was uh one of my friends, I teach the divine gift of forgiveness, and uh I teach the institute class at my steak, and so it's been cool to if you see I got the journal edition too, because I've just been eating this book out Elder Anderson, man, I love him so very much. He's amazing. Me too. He's such a good example. But he really poured his heart out and his whole testimony into this book. Um and my friend in in one of the classes said, Bishop is not standing here to judge, he is here to guide you back. He really is, you gotta recognize like you're you're wearing the same jersey. You're on the same team. You imagine, like, we've had coaches, like we've played sports, we've had coaches that have been frustrating and annoying and difficult at times. But in the end, they want you to win. They want you to to be on the team, they want you to come to practice, they want you to be in the game. They're not trying to keep you out of the game, but they're trying to help you score. And it's the same thing spiritually. Once I realize that my temp my my bishop is really like he is pushing me to become the best disciple of Christ that I can be. Then, you know, it took it as a it was definitely a hard piece of humble pie to eat. But once I ate that piece of humble pie, then I felt like I was getting my spiritual momentum back.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

I think that's one of those beautiful things that show faith when you do that in the face of something that might be in the way. Because some most people I listen, my experience has been the majority of the leaders I've had, I'm like, how do I become like those guys? But there's some people that are just human beings. And I actually love those bishops too, because guess what? If I ever get called to that, I'll be one of those regular imperfect people that hope people can see past my weaknesses and and give that chance. Uh, Alice, you were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I okay, this is like on my tongue, and so we're gonna call it the spirit. Um I had, you know, I was struggling with a bishop. He had actually said some things that had really offended me in a one-on-one meeting. And I was talking to some another adult that I had trusted and or that I I still trust, and he looked me in the eye and said, You don't have to trust your bishop, but thank you for trusting his keys. And that shifted everything for me. It was I was like, wait, because ultimately that was the switch for me where I wasn't going to a bishop to be forgiven, I was going to the savior. And ultimately the priesthood is necessary for that. And so if it doesn't, you know, if you don't get along, if he's kind of a weird guy, or if he said something completely out of pocket, you're not going to him, you're going to the savior. But his keys are sometimes necessary to access that redeeming power.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

It's amazing how like when it comes to repentance, how it's so humbling to realize that like literally there's no one on this planet who's better or worse than anyone else. It's only the savior that matters. And so when we talk about people in authority, it's an it's understandable to like look at a any sort of leader, whether it's priesthood or other, and put them in a different status. But at the end of the day, the there is only one status that matters, and that's child of God. And we're all equals in that trying our best to help each other imperfectly. Alice, that was such a beautiful share. I think that's what we're missing. The only way we're going to overcome the mental games that are out there in the world, and it's not just your generation, but I would say that never in the history of mankind has there ever been an attack on the mental health of a group of people than there has been in this generation in developed worlds. We went to Africa, like I mentioned in the pre-call with my family and my youngest son, Van, we were digging a bathroom for a family through a company called Care for Life. And so they they had as a village, they had come together, got clean water, and so we were coming in, and by the way, we weren't there being the saviors. You know, they really were clear that we were there to learn from them. So they were doing it. We were there to help them, and they were teaching us how to do it. So there wasn't like a status shift. And it was really humbling because we're in this hot sun, we're digging, digging, digging. And um, the village was so loving. Like, as soon as you got there, there's no TV, there's no cell phones, I mean, there's barely clean water. You get there and everyone just loves on you. And my youngest son's son starts crying as he's digging this hole. And I'm like, Oh, the American dad didn't teach his boy how to work hard enough growing up. And he's my son's 12 at the time. And I'm like, dude, are you okay? Like, are you all right? And he goes, I've never been happier. This is like the best day of my life. And he wasn't talking about the work, and and I'm sure it was the spirit, but what he was talking about was like this love and belonging that existed without judgment. And I think that's where this generation is so under attack. So, Alice, when you share stories of authenticity like that, I think that's just so useful for anyone who's listening. And I think it's important to talk about those things. I had um a guest who was on the show who, as a state presidency council member, talked openly about going to his bishop whenever he had the question, Am I worthy? And how it doesn't matter. Like at the end of the day, it's about having the faith to go to talk to someone about that. Is there anything else you guys would add to this role of the bishop in the repentance process that we haven't hit upon already?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

I think I I misquoted my friend and I prayed and had the spirit actually, the spirit brought it back. So this is what my friend said. Your bishop judges your path back to the temple, he judges your path back to the savior, he doesn't judge you. So he's not judging you, he's just judging your path. He's helping you make up a play, he's helping you make a game plan and set a goal to get back. It's not in an essential like imagine you have a stewardship of sheep or a sheepfold. You know, a steward, it was um, if I remember the etymology correctly, the first half of the word is watching over, and word is is sheep, like watching over the flock. And so imagine like your bishop is a steward of your faith. He has the keys to be the steward of your faith. And that wand, not the wand, that cane that he has, he's not using that to hit you. You're one of the sheep. That's for the wolves. And sometimes I feel like, man, you're brother trying to whack me with that thing. You know, you get what I'm saying? Like you're wondering the sheep. You're meant to be in the fold. The sheep, the shepherd's role is to bring you back in. And so it's it's it completely sweeps my mentality. Like he has just that coach coach, like coach is always on the sideline with you, cheering you on and wanting you to do the best that you can. And one more thing, too, is you know, you'll be in a game and people will talk smart talk like you're doing good. Something the opponent scores one basket and then and they start talking trash, but all you got to do is point to the scoreboard and be like, scoreboard, I am up right now. I'm still up by 60. Why are you talking trash? And for us, it's just like you say you you have a week of you you say your prayers, you read your scriptures, you do your ministry, you even go to the temple, you go to the session, and then you have one bad day that slipped up, and you just had an hour of just really struggling with your faith. But you just had how many? 80 hours of good righteousness and one hour of falling short, and you just toss the baby out with the bathwater. Like, scoreboard, remember that you are a score, like you're in a good position for real.

Repentance As Lifelong Becoming

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, and I love Eddie how you're talking about that because the older I get, the more I realize that the Lord, his love is so powerful for us that he can even use our own sins as a way of bringing us closer to him. Like you said, it's not plan B. It was always plan A. I always tell people, and this is something that I was taught recently, was this idea of like, or really learned recently, is that repentance isn't a correction to the path. It was always the path. So, like beating yourself up over making mistakes, I don't know. Let let's let's talk a little bit about the repentance process. You know, as how do you guys define that, or how have you studied and learned about what that repentance process really looks like? Because when I was a kid, it was five steps, we all had a memorized, you know, acknowledge it was wrong, feel bad about it, tell somebody about it, all those kinds of things. So, how do you guys see the repentance process for people who are listening to this, who are like, yeah, I I'm getting some hope. Maybe there's maybe I'm not alone and feeling not enough or not worthy to go to the temple. What how do you guys define that process?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Um, that was something, again, we were taught the steps. And I was like, okay, like that's what repentance looked like for me my whole life. It's like, okay, I acknowledge it, I tell Heavenly Father about it, I ask for forgiveness, done, you're going the next day. Um, but it wasn't until like I had to really dig into To it that I understood it. And this quote did it for me. Actually, I was struggling with understanding repentance, and I was like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't know what this process is going to look like. Um, and this is from Spencer W. Kimball. He says, repentance must involve an all-out total surrender to the program of the Lord. That transgressor is not fully repentant, who neglects his tithing, misses his meetings, breaks the Sabbath, fails in his family prayers, does not sustain the authorities of the church, breaks the word of wisdom, does not love the Lord nor his fellow men. God cannot forgive unless the transgressor shows a true repentance which spreads to all areas of his life. And that, like, an all-out surrender to the program of the Lord hit me like a truck. I was like, wait a second. Like we hear all the time, like President Nelson has talked about how this is a change of heart, it's a change of mind, it's a change of the view of oneself. But that didn't really hit until I realized I was like, no, I have to change everything. And that was cool because then instead of being step by step, it was, how am I becoming better?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

And so that like focus on becoming that President Oakes has talked about shifted it for me. I was like, that's what it is. It's becoming more like the savior instead of these steps.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

So it's not like, yeah, I'm just hitting X, Y, and Z. It's a matter of like transformation. I think I think the old steps are useful, but they're transactional, right? Like, oh, and then and I think that's the whole thing the Lord's trying to get us away from with repentance, or at least how I'm feeling as you're teaching me, Ellis, is this idea that like repentance isn't a transaction. I didn't go into debt with a creditor, and then I use the atonement to come back into good standing with my credit. It it's it's it's never enough. Like there's nothing I can do other than one thing, which is turn my heart to him. But like you said, it's not like one piece of it, it's all of it. And and I just want to I just want to ease into the people who I know in my world who are younger who are like overwhelmed by that. They're like, well, I can never give all myself perfectly. It's not about that, it's about something bigger called effort. As long as you're trying to sustain leaders, as long as you're trying to keep the Sabbath day holy. Uh yeah, maybe you shouldn't have done that. That's so different than like worthiness. Worthiness isn't flawlessness, as we hear, right? Like those are totally unrelated things. It's about intent and hope and effort, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah. No, and I think, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking that as you're going through this process, now it is a process, and this is a lifelong process.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Like we talk about repentance as being done. It's never over. Like we're supposed to repent our whole life. Every day. Every day we're supposed to get closer to him. As you repent, these steps that we've talked about are going to come naturally. And that's we talk about these steps, but if we want to be better, we're gonna go and make restitution with those we may have injured with these. We're gonna go to our bishop if we know we need to. Or if we're unsure, our heart's gonna pull us there. And so when you turn your heart to the savior, instead of focusing on these checkboxes, it's okay, what do I need to do to come back? And I feel like those steps, those steps tend to follow. And so if you're overwhelmed, like speaking to people who may be overwhelmed with like, I can never be perfect.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, perfectionism, totally.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

I take so much comfort in the fact that I will never be perfect because that means I don't have to be.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

It's okay. It's okay. Like it's it's okay. We're not excusing sin, but we're saying it's gonna happen. Yeah. And and you, and we're not again, we're not condoning or saying, yeah, don't worry about the big stuff. We're saying if you're trying to resolve the big stuff and you're doing all that you can wherever you can, that even that perfect, even that effort's not perfect either. It's just gonna be the best we can do.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

I love DNC uh section 61, verse 2. And behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, uh sorry, behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, O ye elders of my church who are assembled upon the spot, whose sins are now forgiven you, for I the Lord forgive sins and am merciful unto those who confess their sins with humble hearts. It is another piece of humble pie, but it takes a lot of humility to be to be able to really see things as they really are, as the prophet Jacob taught. Like, Lord, I struggle with this, Lord, I'm falling short here. I am not really going after my discipleship or trying to realize my full potential with the tenacity that I need to be doing. And it's cool. Like, y'all are PTs, y'all get this. One of the ways that you know somebody's injured is if their strength to grip is weakening. Yeah. That's correct. I don't know how you know that, but correct, yes. I got I spend it I spend 10 hours a week with this girl. That's how I know it.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I talk a lot about the things that I learned in my classes.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, she's gonna wrap my ankle. I sprayed my ankle yesterday. Low-key, like she's you get what I'm saying? But it's cool. You can know that you might be spiritually, you're you might be spiritually wobbly a little bit if you're straight to your tenacity and grabbing your faith, your tenacity and praying and seeking the Lord is seems a little bit weak. You just can't like light-mindedness. I always think we hear this term light-mindedness a lot in our faith. Yes. Um, and I always wonder, like, what's the antithesis of light-mindedness? It's not heavy-mindedness, it's like, oh, like I'm terrible, I can't do anything. That's not that's terrible. That doesn't make any sense. The antithesis is mindfulness, being able to really seize and take care of it. Oh my gosh, mindfulness. Exactly. So you have a tenacity to be able to grab on to spiritual things again, and so that's a repentance process. That's for me is being able to hold on to the iron wrong and cling onto the savior with more strength. Like a little kid on monkey bars.

Addiction, Accountability, And The Temple

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah, I love it. Now, listen, I as much as I love this discussion, I have I have a serious question to ask because, and I'm being like dead serious, what do you guys say to people who are struggling with addiction? Like, let's look at pornography specifically. There are so many young men. I know it's young women and young men, but it's mostly young men, like this, they're struggling with like these elements of that. Like, how does that what would you say to them about this thing called repentance? And and knowing that it's not like stubbing your toe in a sense, but it's it's also like this heavy-mindedness that keeps people in addiction because there's so much like, oh, I'm so horrible and all these things. Like, what do you guys think about that? Or what would you say to people who are struggling with addiction?

SPEAKER_00 28:43

It is, I think it was Jay Getty, who was a very successful man that said a man may get on a train that goes 60 miles an hour and think he is going 60 miles an hour and say he's going 60 miles an hour. But that is not true. Unless he is moving forward on his own accord and own power, he is standing still. And so you may, for us, that means like you may be uh really going through the motions of your discipleship, maybe being sober or going a week or two weeks. But until you intentionally move forward on that train, until you intentionally take the steps and reach out to mentors and set up lines of accountability, that's when you can really make the change.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Okay. And so when people are doing that, and there be you know, for example, we're talking about temple unworthiness, right? Like a young man who's who's struggling with that addiction, who's being told by the bishop, no, you need to go to the temple more, not less. How does he, how does he reconcile those two things of like, I'm doing my best, I'm failing at it, but I still should be going somewhere holy? Like, what do you guys think about that?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

That's actually, I was talking to my dad recently about this. So my dad was recently called to be a YSA bishop. He's a first-time bishop, and he's like, I have no idea what I'm doing. So I talked to him all about it because I'm like, I'm a YSA, this is perfect. And you know, we we were chatting about this, and he was like, I see people all the time that deal with things that, you know, growing up, I heard that it was like, okay, a year out of the temple, you know, I'm taking your temple recommend.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

He says repeatedly over and over, I hear the spirit say they need the temple more. And, you know, I was talking to him, I was like, Yes, like we need to be able to answer those temple recommend questions. Like, there is a worthiness standard to enter the house of the Lord, but there are those times where the temple strengthens you. And it is so hard because you sit there and you're like, I don't, I'm not worthy to be here. But you can look around and you realize, like, I love looking at the sluster room in the Provo City Center Temple. Because one, it's always crowded. Sometimes it's a little overwhelming to me, always packed, but it's packed full of people that are talking about things that aren't necessarily spiritual. And so I look around and I'm like, these people aren't perfect. Like everybody around me is struggling with something, with something of their own.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

And so I, you know, if I actually had a friend come to me and say, you know, I struggle with pornography. And I was I was kind of floored. I was like, I don't, I don't know what to say. I'm not qualified to answer this.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And I remember looking at them and just saying, God loves you and He sees you. What can I do for you? And you know, they responded, Can I come to the temple with you every week? And I said, Yes, you can. So I'm like, I drove them, we went to the temple, and that ended up being, you know, that accountability that Eddie was talking about. That it was like when they had a buddy, they felt comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

I love that you you guys hit both ends of it. Eddie, I loved how you talked about someone who's really not taking the steps forward and they're going through the motions as not moving forward on the train until they've done those steps. And then Alice, I loved your your balance of once they're doing that and remind you that like they've talked to a priesthood authority and they're encouraging them to go. This isn't something you that's not something you decide internally. That's why we have the priesthood, is to make sure that we're clear on this. But once that's been cleared and you're being encouraged to go, to go knowing that you aren't, you don't need the savior's love or forgiveness any less than anyone else who's going through the temple. I am struggling with my stuff. You're struggling with your stuff. We all have our stuff, and no matter what it looks like, compared to what we need to create ourselves to get to where Jesus is, is never enough. That's why grace exists, because our Savior loves us so much that he gave us that path. So just to recognize we're all equals, I think it's the comparison to each other, which is the root of most of this stuff, is because when someone's struggling with the pornography addiction or someone's struggling with an eating disorder, if someone's struggling with just a low self-esteem or the voices in their head, all they ever see when they look at external is that they're the only ones who are in it. And we all need the savior's love equally. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Okay, you just reminded me of a Christian song. Can I read these lyrics?

SPEAKER_03 33:09

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

I love it. This is some of my I'm a huge Christian music fan. Yes. And I actually, this is funny because the lyrics are not popping up on Spotify. It's not like written in, but I have them memorized. Um, it's called it's a song called Carpenter's Rug. And the lyrics say, you know, I was running through the house. Well, how does it start? Like, it it sucks. Like my shoes are covered in mud. Like, I know I was running through the house thinking someone would shout. You know, I'm staining the carpenter's rug. And the whole point of it is, you know, we're all dirty, we're all getting that carpet dirty, but no one's yelling. It's more, he opens the door, he tells you to sit down, and no one's yelling. And so I know when I'm feeling down, I go and I hit play on a couple songs, and it it brings the spirit back and it brings that confidence back.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

So you use music to help combat some of those like satanic like influences of like thinking that you're less than that music. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Well, guys, this is so great. So, repentance process, we've kind of defined it a little bit more of this like giving your heart all in. So, what does that look like for you guys? Like when someone's like, Great, so there are steps, but maybe that's it. But what does it actually look like to repent? Like when you guys are going through your processes, or what or when you're talking to someone to teach them how they should go through their process, what do you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 34:39

I got a pretty cool story. Let's go! All right, let's get it. So this is man, I love President Holland so much. This is from his book for Times of Trouble. The brethren used to announce general in general conference the names of those who had been called on missions. Not only was this the way friends and neighbors learned of the call, but more often than not, it was the way the missionary learned of the call as well. One prospect was Eli H. Pierce, a railroad, a railroad man by trade, and he had not been very faithful in the church. Even had my inclinations led in that direction, which I frankly confess they did not, he admitted. His mind had been given totally to what he demurely called temporalities. He said he had never read more than a few pages of scripture in his life, and that he had spoken to only he'd had spoken at only one public gathering, an effort that he says was no credit to himself or to those who heard him. And he used a vernacular of the railroad and the baroom with a finesse born of long practice. He bought sign he bought he bought cigars wholesale, a thousand at a time, and he regularly lost his paycheck playing pool. Then this classic understatement nature never endowed me with a superabundance of religious sensitive sentiment. Sorry, nature never endowed me with a superabundance of religious sentiment. My spirituality was not high and probably even a little below average. Well, the Lord knew what Eli Pierce was, and he knew something else. He knew what Eli put Eli he knew what Eli Pierce could become. When the call came October 5th, 1875, Eli wasn't even in the tabernacle. He was out working on one of the railroad railroad lines. A fellow employee, once he had recovered from the shock of it all, ran out to telegraph the startling news. Brother Pierce writes, At the very moment this intelligence was being flashed over the wires, I was sitting lazily thrown back in an office rocking chair, my feet on the desk reading a novel, simultaneously sucking on an old Dutch pipe just to vary the monotony of s of a cigar smoking. As soon as I had been informed of what had taken place, I threw the novel in the wastebasket and the pipe in the comer. And I never touched either to this hour. I sent in my resignation to take effect at once in order that I may have time for study and preparation. I then started into town to buy scripture. Then Eli wrote these stirring words. Repentance, remarkable as it is. Oh sorry. Repentance remarkable Whoa. Yeah, excuse me, yeah. Sorry, I was falling along. No, no, no, no, no. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

She's over your shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

No, she knows it's an amazing story.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

I'll be given it.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Then Eli wrote these stirring words. Remarkable as it may seem, and has since appeared to me, a thought of disregarding the call or refusing to comply with the requirement never once entered my mind. The only question I asked, I asked it a thousand times, was how can I accomplish this mission? How can I, who am shamefully ignorant and untaught in doctrine, do honor to God and justice to the souls of men and merit the trust reposed in me by the priesthood? With such genuine humility, fostering resolution rather than defeating it, Eli Pierce fulfilled a remarkable mission. His journal his journal completely appropriately closes. Sorry, his journal could appropriately close on a completely renovated renovated life with this one line. Throughout our entire mission, we were greatly blessed. And seriously, Alice, you want to read the how the story closes?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

I I remember it. Can I tell it?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

So this is brother, this story ends with Brother Pierce being called to administer to a sick infant of a branch president that he knew. Um this was during his mission. And he, the wife of the branch president, was super bitter. She did not want this kid to get a blessing. And so Brother Pierce came over to this house and he and the branch president went up in a separate room. The wife sent actually one of the older children to go spy on them as they were praying. And so they came up and they they prayed until they felt that the child would live and knew that our prayers had been heard. They stood up and they saw the young girl standing in the partially open doorway, um, gazing intently into the room. She seemed, however, quite oblivious to the movements of the two men. She stood entranced for some seconds, her eyes immovable, then she said, Papa, who is that man in there? Her father said, That is Brother Pierce, you know him. No, she said matter-of-factly, I mean the other man. There was no other darling except Brother Pierce and myself. We were praying for the baby. Oh, there was another man, the child insisted, for I saw him standing above you and Brother Pierce, and he was dressed in white. And so, super cool with you know how the God of heaven and earth will send an angel for someone who smoked cigars for years and years and didn't come to church, but decided to be all into a mission. Like, that's a that's a choice. And, you know, I think we can talk about how that looks for young adults as well.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

Yeah, I I just gotta say how inspired I am by this. I almost feel like as people are listening to this, like first and foremost, if if there's anything that ever makes you feel like you're you're not part of the the human family because of sin, it's the it's those things that actually make you more human than anything else. It's the part of what makes all of us connect, is that that need for the savior. Like, I love the fact that like in the scriptures, it's filled with like the sons of Mosiah or Paul turned Saul, Saul turned Paul, or you know, like that whole the conversion isn't just like the most common recurring theme in the scriptures, it is the experience of our lifetimes. And the Satan, Satan's whole job is to go, oh see, you screwed up. Everyone else is so much further along. You'll never be like Eddie and Ellis, they're on a podcast, you know, that kind of thing. Like, and it's and it's so funny because like we're all just in this this this movement together. So, yeah, tell me more about like you said you could talk about it from like what it looks like from a YSA perspective and what that looks like. What does that look like for you guys?

Belonging When Your Story Feels Missing

SPEAKER_01 40:42

Yeah. Okay, first off, I have a soapbox that I will get on until probably the day I die.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Please.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

There has been some research shown that people leave their religions because they don't feel that their story is represented. And more than anything, I can I can find you that study because it's a fascinating study.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

But more than anything, I think that's the young adults in the church. We're told on our missions, this is some you know, percentage that is thrown out that I haven't been able to find the research on it yet. Yeah. But that 50% of returned missionaries leave.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

I've heard that too.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

And that is not that's not good. Like, and then being a returned missionary, I was like, oh, I kind of understand. Because I don't feel like I belong. It goes back to this thing of belonging.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

And so my soapbox that I get on is your story matters. And if you don't feel like it belongs, we need you here to change the narrative. So come. Come and stay, come and belong. Because tradition is different than the gospel of Jesus Christ. And a lot of times we feel we don't belong because we don't fit the tradition. When the gospel of Jesus Christ accepts everybody.

SPEAKER_03 41:58

Eddie, I feel like you're you've got some great things to share here. What are you what are you thinking about right now, buddy?

SPEAKER_00 42:02

No, I mean before I say that, dude, she's awesome. She is amazing.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

You both are. I'm sitting here like the comp the the guy in the Satan's in my head going, like, see, well, you're 50 years old. You're not nearly as cool as they'll ever be. I'm 50.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

You look good, man.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

See, that everyone who's listening, that's the correct response when I tell you that I'm 50. But at least right there was the correct response. Eddie, thank you for that. But dude, seriously, like I'm 24, you got more hair than me, man. No, no, no. You look good, bro. You look good. Thank you, thank you. But yeah, this belonging thing is real, Eddie. Like, talk to me about that. Like, what's what's going on for you in that? I see you looking at stuff.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

When it's tough to really find how your story fits, how your narrative fits. Yes. Oh my goodness. Man, you know, I'm a brother here at BYU, and at times it feels that the only brothers that can make an impact at BYU are the ones that have a basketball jersey or a football jersey. Wow. And, you know, I it was funny, like my first when I got when I got to BYU um my first semester, it happened several times, whether on campus or in the community, like, hey, good game, bruh. Oh, go koos, you guys are gonna kill it today. I was like, what game?

SPEAKER_03 43:11

What they assumed that you were on a team.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah. And so listen, I'll I'll take like it, I'll take the compliment. Um, because you know, I'm a brother, I got a little muscle on me. Like, I get it.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

I was gonna say you're in good shape too. So like that's that's part of it. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

You know, it's uh no, I appreciate I appreciate the sentiment, but I hate like just the idea. Like, it just kind of leaves you feeling like dang, like, is the only impact I can have as an athlete. Is that my only value? Like, oh, uh what sport do you play? Football? No, oh, you must be here for basketball, then no, like, why are you here? I was like, well, to get educated and prepare for my future stewardships, but that's a very like it's a very weird conversation to have. And so when you feel when Sane puts you in a box and he tells you, like, you can't make a difference, you're marginalized, you have a little bit you're you don't fit in here. And honestly, to be blatantly honest, I I don't I think I've seen one other brother today. He was sitting right over there. Maybe two. I think my other friend was over there. I like it's true, like most of the time I'm the only brother in the room. And so Satan will use those those situations that are difficult and really just leverage it and make you feel worse.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

But then I realized wait, like, I'm a son of God. I have divine, I have a divine identity, I have a tremendous amount of potential. And so I'm not gonna let Satan cripple that potential. And I'm gonna really just go after my potential with tenacity.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

And let the light shine. Like that is the one thing that I realized. Like when I do let my light shine, whether I've through my clothes or through my jokes or through my speech or through the way I work or uh or the my shoes or the inspirational videos that I put out or the podcast, like I have to let the light shine even brighter now. Because it really is a commandment. Let your lights so shine before men that they may see your good works and that they may glorify your father who is in heaven. Letting your light shine is part of your story, letting your light shine is part of your testimony and getting worthy again. And for me, it's just like the opportunity to be an example and to be. Oh, this is one of my favorite things. I almost call you Chris Chris Hemsworth. Have mercy. Because I saw the common confusion.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Common confusion. People think I'm just kidding. No one has ever been confused on that ever. Just so you can.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Call me Denzel, too. Call me Denzel. Just kidding. But Will, have you ever heard of a bellwether? No. So have you seen Zootopia? Like Male Bell. Yeah, male mare bellwether. Yes. A bellwether is a sheep that is really good at following the shepherd. So the shepherd would put a bell around its neck so that if a sheep strayed or could not see the shepherd, it could listen to the noise of the bellwether and listen for that little bell and follow that bell follow that sheep. So essentially, that sheep was just a really good follower, and so it turned into a leader. And so for me, I recognize that I'm not the shepherd. Christ is a shepherd, but I can be a good bellwether, and if I stay active with my faith, you know, you really got to be active and moving if you want to make the bell have a noise, then I can be a better example. I can be a bellwether despite the challenges that I face.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Wow, I I am so inspired right now. You you brought me to tears, uh Eddie, when you were talking. I think there's I'm trying to understand, obviously it's the spirit, but there's also this recognition that, like, no matter how old I'll ever get, I'll always think of myself as the 14-year-old with braces and a headgear that I had to wear in middle school, which was really rough, and how I just struggled in fitting in. Or more importantly, as a parent, I think about my boys as I see them at various levels struggle socially and how that painful that is. And no matter how it looks to others, I don't think there's a soul on earth now who to some degree doesn't really question whether or not they fit in or belong. And I think between that and worthiness, the the adversary loves to confuse those two points and really make people feel separate. And so when you talked about your experience of being in a position where you're, in some ways, the adversary is trying to make you feel alone, right? For various reasons and in your own way, the way you decided to be a light on the hill, let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father in heaven. It just makes me glorify God to see how a son of God like you has chosen to be a light in the face of clearly the adversary's attacks. Um, as a side note, and I am using this to promote, but um, last weekend I announced at at this event that I was at that we are launching uh a foundation, a charity called the Light on the Hill Foundation. So I don't think it's coincidence that we launched that last weekend, and then you're you're talking about being a light on the hill because um there's others who need the light. You know, that I think the Satan's trying so hard. I think so. If any young man or young woman's listening to this right now and they're just feeling like ostracized, alone, not enough, unworthy, the it's because you shine brighter than you know. It's because the light of Christ in you is meant to change the lives of so many people. And not only do we overcome the adversary by choosing to be the light, but we are there to see the repercussions of our efforts, which is to bring other people who feel alone towards the savior. And in the end of the day, that's all that matters, right? Yeah, so Eddie, thank you for sharing that. That was awesome. What else in this book that you guys have read has stood out to you? I saw that you guys have earmarked this book. What's something that has stood out to you? And Ellis just lit up when I said that. We got more stuff. Seriously, this is.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

Oh bro, we got a bunch of recommendations.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Please.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

I almost got Chris Hemsworth again.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

Please just call me Chris Hemsworth. Like, yeah, I've been seeing my wife all day. Like, guess what? This guy at work, he told me I was Chris Hemsworth all day. I know.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

I just think Hemsworth. I think it's weird.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Every time you say that, I'm like, I'm definitely going to the gym tomorrow. Oh yeah. Okay, Ellis, let's hear it. What do you got for us?

SPEAKER_01 49:14

Um on the topic of repentance. I, you know, as we've been talking, you've probably um uh recognize that I have a lot of soapboxes that I will get on.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

We think Ellis is on soapboxes.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

I'm like, I always joke, I'm like, if somebody doesn't want to say it, I will. Because I'm tired of not talking about things. Yes. Um on the topic of repentance, I marked this coming up like in preparation for this podcast. And this is something that I went back to today in my scripture study actually and re-highlighted. And so there's in this chapter, this is again Neil Anderson's The Divine Gift of Forgiveness. This is a chapter called The Roadway Prepared for Repentance and Forgiveness. He pulls out scriptures that say, you know, repent and come unto me. And Christ repeatedly uses this phrase. Um, he talks, you know, this verse reads, If they will not harden their hearts that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name, and know of the true points of my doctrine, they will be numbered among my people. And it's still, he explains the power of his atonement. Repent and come unto me. Repent and come unto me. Repentance is a commandment for us, but this is an invitation. This is not Christ shutting you out.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Repent ye, repent ye, like on the top of like the hellfire and brimstone. That's not what that is.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

These are not woes coming from Isaiah to King Ahaz. Like, I only say that because that's where we are and come follow me right now.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

I was super impressed. I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

You Christ needs you back, and he's coming with open arms, and he's pleading for you back. And I feel like if I could tell people that if I could tell anybody that maybe has stepped away or that feels like they are ostracized or feels like they feel like they don't fit, that's what I would tell them. It's like Christ is standing with open arms and Christ needs you and wants you back in this community. It's come unto me, come unto me, come unto me. Like this is not something that someone says when they're like, nah, you gotta stay out. Like, we can't have you here. You're a bad influence. You're like, no, that's that's Satan's point of view.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yeah, Christ has come on. Complete. No, just it's okay. Come, this is this is the path back. It's called repentance. Just come.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:37

Uh Eddie.

SPEAKER_00 51:38

I'll follow up with something from uh Elder Anderson. This these two paragraphs literally lit me on fire. If you find yourself making the same mistake, struggling to be firm in your desire to change, express to your heavenly father your love for him and strengthen your faith in Jesus Christ. In the Lord Jesus Christ. Learn of him. Study his sacred atonement and think deeply about what he suffered for you. Keep his commandments with more exactness. As you do your part to build your faith in the Savior, I promise you that heaven will compound this gift of faith and you will have the spiritual strength to repent and uh repent of your sins and not return to them. With your faith growing and the power and gift of God working within you, you will sense deep within yourself the ability and the divine help to change your behavior. You will have a great desire and the strength to keep the commandments, to discard those things that do not bring goodness into your life. And as you do these things, suddenly there is another power. The power of Christ and his atonement, bringing increasing forgiveness to past sins. You will begin feeling approval because of what you're doing. You'll begin feeling his approval because of what you're doing. Then miraculously, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, you will feel the gift of his forgiveness. And close quote. I love that. I I I shared that um with my institute class, and you just, it is amazing. I it was like the wave of a spirit. You ever been at a sports game with people doing a wave and everything? Yes. I love teaching because I love seeing the spirit come into someone's eyes, into someone's heart. And you see people just they stand up a little bit taller. They perk up, their eyes, like they I saw one brother, it's either a jaw drop, this one brother that put two hands on his head. And it was just from the spirit. Like it was it was so cool. But you know, it it I love that last thing. Sometimes it comes quickly, sometimes it comes slowly with repentance, and sometimes you really gotta work at it. For every person that gets the Elm of the Younger, turn around, another person is wandering in the wilderness for 40 years. And whatever the Lord has given you and as your path to repentance, have hope. Because one of those days in the 40 years, you're gonna have that almond the younger experience. You're gonna be able to turn around and flip. You're gonna be able to come on to the savior end. Man, will it feel good? Repentance is it is a cup of hell. It is a bitter cup. Like you don't, like, we're not downplaying it. Like you really do have to repent. You have to be really sorry. You have to just recognize that you may have made the savior hurt a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Yeah, I will tell you, for me, as I hear that, it inspires me. I I just know from my experience of repentance that those things that require like talking to a bishop or whatever it is that requires those extra steps, it's okay that it feels harder. I have done those steps. I have talked to bishops, I have, I'm very proud. I'm proud. I have I don't uh to a almost to a fault, like I have no problem talking about those things because it was through that loving experience that I got to know my savior more. And sometimes we have to go back a few times, but at the end of the day, when we finally get to that place where the appearance of a sin shows up, an opportunity to sin shows up, and you feel that pull towards it. And then immediately on top of that is like, yeah, I already know how this is gonna go. I'm not gonna like when you get to that point where you feel like you've learned it well enough to where, and this isn't me across the board, this is just in certain areas that I've I've learned is like, well, yeah, I I just feel I feel stronger. I feel more empowered. I feel, and it's not me. Like at the same time, I know it's not me. Like it's one of those things where it's like, I don't want to be the star of the show. I love that I am just totally dependent on my savior because he's unstoppable. There's nothing he can't overcome, and he doesn't care what I can't, he doesn't care what I do or don't do. He doesn't care about those things from a place of judgment. He cares, he just loves me no matter what. And so every time I slip and fall, it's like, oh man, that's all right, buddy. You can get up, you can do it again. That's that's the savior. That's not anything other than that is the adversary. And so, and that's culture. That's whatever. I don't care. Some of that stuff is we could analyze that to death. At the end of the day, it's just that beautiful recognition that you save when you're teaching it, and you see that love, that light on a hill, Eddie, like you were talking about your institute that made me tear up again. That's twice in this episode, you've made me cry. Where you're up there and you're being that light on a hill, and you see, no matter what kind of like suppression or invalidation is coming your way, that when you testify of the Savior's love, he turns us into his instruments. And is there anything else that's better in this world? Man, I'll tell you, as a father of four boys, there's nothing else I want to be than just in the in the Lord's hands, letting him guide my children. I'm I'm gonna screw it up and I have, but he, he's perfect. He's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Absolutely. I love that you said you're like, I wear this, I'm like I'm proud of it. I'm proud that I've been to a like I've gone to see the bishop and I've repented. I feel the same way because I'm like, wait a second, I am better than I was in the past, and I'm stronger, and I know that those things that you know drug me down, drug, drag, like, or that used to drag me down. Yeah, I am powerful over now. I'm like, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 56:59

Let's go together. And it's like no one's no one's like sitting back there, like mastering this thing. But I don't know. I just listen, we're all in it together, and it's like, I love that. I don't know. For me, authenticity, and like I haven't known you guys for long. I love you guys. Like it's just because you're so real. We love you too. Yeah, because we're all fighting the bite the fight together, which is this thing called getting to the savior. Yeah. So I love that. Eddie.

Unstoppable Faith And Never Giving Up

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Well, I love that you said that the savior is unstoppable. That is one of my favorite Christ-like attributes that we do not hear about and we don't talk about enough. Because it's not in PMG. It's not one of, like, oh, this week I'm gonna work on being unstoppable. That's just not something we talk about. No, but you think about it. It was Elder Iring in in the talk, act in all diligence. Man, if you need one of those, just like to get your spiritual burners turned up a little bit higher, listen to that talk. But he talks about how the savior has gone through the most difficult and most heart-wrenching, most way seriously, like he is just going through the wine press of the wrath of God. And he gets to the other side, and what does he do? He keeps ministering, he keeps going. When his enemies thought that they had won, they didn't realize that the savior was unstoppable on both sides of the veil. And so the whole point of repentance is so that we can become unstoppable. You think about it. President Nelson, that dude was pretty unstoppable. Find another 101-year-old working 12 hours a day to build a kingdom.

SPEAKER_03 58:34

Come on. Come on. And he did it with such passion and grace, and and like in the person, he's just I love that analogy of like never giving up being unstoppable, Eddie. I why is that so important to you?

SPEAKER_00 58:49

For me, it's you show your character and you show your your your your character and you develop character through your perseverance. When when you have uh a test, you just bombed the test, you just got runzoned, you're struggling with your health, you didn't get into grad school, your car is messed up, now you don't even have Netflix no more because that Netflix is doing that weird thing where you can't watch on multiple screens and you're about to crash out.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

That was good.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

Now is the time where you really got to be unstoppable. Now is the time where you really gotta see how much spiritual momentum. Why not build up that spiritual momentum that you become unstoppable at the same time that the adversary can't stop you? Look at the apostles. Seriously, you go through all 15 of these prophets and apostles, these guys, they're obviously they're they're human. We're not saying like, oh, this is not in any way self-aggrandizing. Right. But you you see it like you can be unstoppable. You ever play basketball with somebody that's unstoppable? Oh, forget it. Yeah. Like you see it all the time in sports. Tom Brady, unstoppable, seven rings. Michael Jordan, unstoppable. Bam at a bio, this dude just scored 83 points. That was insane. I saw that. We're a huge unstoppable. That doesn't mean he's not gonna lose another game this season. That's not the point. But in the moments when you're in the game and it matters so much, it's in those moments, those those moments where you're on the the brink of falling short, the brink of relapsing, the brink of really just struggling with your depression, whatever it may be, those are the moments where you got to be unstoppable, where you have to be like the savior.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:28

Absolutely. I'm feeling so inspired by you guys. I one of the things that I want every young person to hear is this idea of never giving up. You call it unstoppable. Every single email, I've got a son on a mission who's coming home in four months, and then at the end of his email, I always have the exact same signature. It's go fight win, never give up. And go fight win is a family value set that we have, and there's a scripture attached to it for for the for the for the never give up, it's Philippians 4.13. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And I just want the listeners to hear, but I want Eddie and Ellis to hear. Never give up. You two listen, I'm not worried about you guys giving up on life or all those different elements. Suicide, for example, has tripled in the last 15 years. So for many, when I say don't give up on life, like I mean it, don't give up on life. But what I'm talking about is like this light and this passion that shines so brightly in both of you with this podcast and what you guys are building, never give up because it's not about you two. It's about, it's about the the many members of the church who are like you said, Ellis, who don't feel like they fit in, or Eddie, how you did in class, where it's like, you know, people get you wrong. At the end of the day, your voices will attract people who feel like there's nothing else, and that will bring them that light on a hill will bring them. So please, like everyone who's listening, if you're if you're mentally in a place where you're really dark and you've even thought about suicide, please go tell someone, please. Please go tell someone, please. If you're struggling with serious sin, go tell someone, please. Pain shared is pain divided. And when you have friends, uh leaders, mentors, religious, uh priesthood authorities that you can talk to, they are there to help. If you can't trust the man, trust the trust, at least trust the keys, is what Ellis taught me today. Um before I go into my rapid fire final questions, is there anything that you guys can feel inspired to say? I feel like you guys may have some quotes or things to hit, or are you you guys ready for the rapid fire?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

Well, Will, thank you. Um, because you know, you're talking to somebody who recently got prescribed antidepressants that, you know, we are on this podcast, but I mean, Eddie and I mean, I know Eddie's got Eddie and I know when each other have rough days and when we're absolutely fighting for every single shred of light that we have. And so, you know, it's easy to listen to the podcast. Like I get I get texts from my friends that are like, your podcast is amazing. I love your insights. Even my relatives are like, you would never know how depressed you've been just based on listening to the podcast. And so I thank you for for sharing that. Because I like it, whether it's you know, mental health or repentance, like the biggest thing, I'm like, it's you're normal and that's okay. Like that's that's okay. And like have fun with it. You know, the 85%ers are the happiest people on this planet. Like, it's it's okay. So uh thank you for saying that well, because that touched me today.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

That means a lot to me. Thank you for being transparent and sharing that. I myself have been on uh that medication off and on, off and on. And it's just it's again, it these are tools to help us in the latter days. We're under attack for crying out loud. It's gonna hit, it's gonna really suck sometimes. And that's okay, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:55

Yeah. At some point, I think it was John by the way that said this it's not about what makes sense, it's about survival. Just get through it. Yep. Oh my goodness. And no, just to add on to Alice's sentiment, I feel the same way. Um and oh man, you know, my mom passed away from cancer over the past summer, and my uncle passed away from um health difficulties with diabetes, just her older brother passed away just a few weeks ago. And uh, thank you. And we had uh a girl from my home ward who's a really good family friend passed away from suicide uh just a few weeks ago as well. And so, you know, I like seriously, if you're grieving, if you're struggling, like I recognized that I was really struggling because it had such an impact on my health, such an impact on my physical health, mental health, social health. Like, it was just man, I just knew like homework that would take me 30 minutes was taking me two hours. Uh my hair was falling out, I started having heart pains, my weight was fluctuating, like, and man, like it was crazy. But you hear this all the time. When you're on a plane, plane starts going down. Oh, help someone put their mask on and then put yours on. No, that's stupid. That is ludicrous. Never do that. You wouldn't do that on a plane, so why do you do that with your life? Stop. Stop putting other people's priorities ahead of yours.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:18

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

No, seriously. Like I recognize that I did not put my mask on. Like here I was, beating myself up. Like, why am I my mom's going through chemo, my family's struggling. We're literally, family finances are just shattered. Yeah, man. Rock bottom. And I'm beating myself up every day. Like, why am I not a better son? Why am I not just doing summer sales and making 200k so I could just take care of my family? Why am I in class right now? Why am I doing all this right now? Why am I like but then I realized I gotta put my mask on so I can connect with the savior and keep on striving to become like him despite the challenges that I'm facing. Because I don't know how. And I'm so grateful because when you have these rock bottom, difficult family circumstances. Your faith can either dwindle or it can become as strong as a mountain. And I am so grateful that these challenges have brought me closer to the Savior. Mental health challenges, please. Like Will said, I almost called you Chris again, but I corrected myself. Like Will said, just reach out to somebody. Talk to somebody. I love that. Pain shared is pain divided. And you know, sometimes in my family, is it what is pain? French bread. Oh, okay. That's how you spoke. Pain. French. Yeah, it's funny. But that is that's so true. Go talk to somebody. Reach out. People that really do care.

Rapid Fire Questions And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_03 1:06:38

And just know that you're normal. Like, just know that you're normal. Like, you know what? Don't hear it from the old man who looks like Chris Hemsworth. Look at listen to listen to the people who, like, honestly, on video, you would just think don't have a care in the world. They're good looking, they're intelligent, they're articulate, like all these wonderful things. And guess what? They're in the latter days just like you. They are struggling just like you. They they have moments, but it doesn't mean that it has to define them. It it's fueling them to becoming a light on a hill, which which, because of the savior, you can too. And it's not about it being hard, it's about never giving up. So, guys, thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, let's rapid fire some questions to wrap this bad boy up. You ready?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:20

Okay, you want short answers?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:22

Yeah, yeah, whatever. I don't care. I I I asked them quickly. You can go off on a 20-minute tangent. I just can you tell us so much. I love it. So, whatever, yeah. Rapid fire doesn't mean rapid, quick, keep it short. Just like without I didn't prepare these questions, you know, what you guys don't know about these questions.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

I know I'm kind of excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

Okay, yeah. Uh number one, um someone is really, really like wanting to learn more about these topics. What's a book that you guys recommend? I guess I just kind of set you up for the book you just have. Sorry about that. So it's the divine gift. Say it, Eddie.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Elder Neil A. Anderson.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:02

L. Anderson.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:03

Neil. Oh, have mercy. The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Neil L. Anderson.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:08

Do you know that he has a really good sense of humor? He was before we became an apostle, he spoke at my church uh stake conference when I was like in my early 20s. And comedy's really big for me, which is why I think I love you guys a lot. But one of the many reasons, but like literally, he was on he was at the pulpit. He had people belly laughing, tears streaming down their faces, like a almost like a stand-up comedian, but with with respect and like not being casual. Like he was just so funny. Anyway, uh, favorite temple that you've ever been to? Ellis.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

I I love Las Vegas. That's the one that I worked in. I although Provo City Center has a really special place in my heart, and so does London.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

So okay, very nice. Eddie.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

Hometown, Boston, Massachusetts Temple. Um, favorite, probably San Diego. It is literally a castle.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

It is literally a castle. Love those two answers. Somewhere in the world that you've been that you loved, or somewhere you would love to go. Eddie, first.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

I somewhere I've been, the Outer Banks, absolutely beautiful. Um, somewhere I've been.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:11

Where is Outer Banks?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

North Carolina, Outer Banks, North Carolina.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:15

Super cool. Um, where I want to go, China, because I want to learn Chinese. Imagine a brother that could speak Chinese. It'd be pretty crazy. I wonder, I wonder what that statistic is. It's probably like 0.001% of brothers speak Chinese. That's why I want to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:29

Just to break the odds, man. I love that. Let's go. All right, Alice. Same thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Uh the place that has my heart is London. I that's gonna be the cliche missionary answer, but I that city has my heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

Um, a place I want to go, I kind of want to live in Spain. Just for kicks and giggles. Like, not even on a trip. I want to move there.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:53

Yes. Love that. Love those answers. Very cool. Okay, um, let's do something kind of just really odd. Yeah. What is um what is a favorite cereal that you guys have? What's your favorite cereal?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

Oh. Um uh not healthy, cinnamon toast crunch, healthy, uh, Cheerios, Crunch, Cinnamon. Wow. Very cool, very similar.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

Okay, Ellis, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Flat out Wheaties. I love Wheaties. Whoa! I know, hot take. Hot take. I love them.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:27

Let me see your driver's license. When were you moving? She's she's probably as old as Chris Hemsworth over here with her with her Wheaties love. Okay, guys, here we go. Um, who is a family member that you would consider as like one of your most influential leaders, a family member? Someone it can be it can be a living or someone you've never met who's passed away before. Who's someone that's really like seen and heard you?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

My mom, Marielle, who passed away last summer, uh, and my sister Barbara, who is literally her, but still here on earth.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

Wonderful answer. Thank you so much, Eddie, Ellis.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Um, I my dad has gotten me through the past like four years. So my dad's gonna be number one. Um, number two, I have a grandfather that I never met that I have a pretty, I feel like I have a pretty strong connection with beyond the veil. So I number number two would be my grandfather.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:23

Okay, last question. This is one part temple, one part family history. The family history part is the recording itself. This is your kids, your grandkids. You have your own podcast that can have lots of content, but but probably never have the opportunity to answer this specific question. What would you want them to know about this thing called belonging to the savior? What would you want them to hear you say at your young age that you'd want them to know?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:48

Do you want me to go first? Um matter what you face, like I don't know what the world's gonna look like when my kids are growing up. And if this is to my kids, I don't know what the world looks like when you're growing up. Um I will one day, but whatever you're going to face, Jesus Christ is the answer. I have a testimony of that because I have learned that for myself. I've learned that for myself over and over again. He is the answer, and you belong to him. No matter if you don't feel like you belong, you are his and you always have a home with him.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:34

Girl, that was all shoot. Go ahead. For mine, like mine, I just say the scriptures are so true because they bear testimony of him. I've come to love the scriptures. I keep a pocketbook of Mormon with me. Everywhere I go to keep the carrot. It's literally like my best friend, and then I'll keep a card with uh with my goals on it. Because they help me to remember and make a person, like they help me take initiative and becoming more like the savior. And so I would let I would let them know. Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, wherefore they said they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ. Before, behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what you should do. So feast on them. Don't just nibble, don't just snack, go ham. Go all in. You had a Chinese buffet. Like, seriously, just keep stacking the plate with fried rice when it comes to the words of Christ. Um, in all reverence, I say that. But I I'd say too, like, just one more thing. It was people who set goals are 42% more successful than people that don't. Sorry, I said that wrong. People who write down their goals are 42% more successful than people that don't. So write down how you are going to become more like Jesus Christ, and you'll be more a more successful disciple of Christ. Because you will be more likely to build your faith in him, more likely to repent, to build your next covenant, receive the Holy Ghost, and keep enduring and keep persevering and keep living your faith. And it for me that's uh the most inspiring thing. The opportunity every single day that I have to realize my full potential. And if you don't have, if you haven't thought about your goals, if you haven't written down any, that's okay. Because the Lord has written down a couple for you and your patriarchal blessing. That is your personal brew that is your personal blueprint for Christ-like progression. A blueprint is not just meant to be read. You're supposed to take it and act on it and build something amazing. So build of your life a Christ-like masterpiece because man, you'll look back and be like, dang, the Lord helped me to do something great. He has really done wonders among me.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:48

Eddie Ellis, thank you so much for being on Temple Bound. How did they get a hold of you? What's your podcast? Do one more pitch for it, please.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:56

Yes. Okay. Eddie and I are the hosts of Come Study With Me. This is a podcast that's by young adults for young adults. My favorite way to pitch this, we know, you know, come follow me might not be at the top of your priority list, but we want to help you get there and we have a discussion that relates directly to you. It's short, it fits in your schedule, and we want to have you there.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:20

Love it, you guys. Thank you so much for being on the show. All you guys who are listening, please go listen to that podcast. Even if you're not a YSA, I would encourage you to go listen to it because there's something about hearing it from the youth that impacts it a way that nothing else can. Eddie and Ellis, thanks again for being on the show and for all of you for tuning in and listening. Please remember the theme of our show is to never give up until next time. Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bound Podcast to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there.