The Glamping Boom: Hype, Profits, & Pitfalls | Edward Haynes E16

Luxury glamping—game-changing investment or overhyped trend?

In this episode of The Hotel Investor Playbook, we sit down with Edward Haynes, a specialist in unique stays and experiential lodging, to unpack the massive growth in luxury outdoor hospitality.

We cover:

✅ Why glamping demand is skyrocketing (and if it’s sustainable)

✅ How unique stays can outperform traditional hotels in revenue

✅ What it really takes to develop a profitable glamping site

✅ The biggest mistakes investors make in this space

✅ How major hospitality brands are eyeing this market

If you’re an investor, operator, or just fascinated by the future of hospitality, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss!

🔗 Connect with Edward & Learn More:

👉 EJH Distribution: www.ejhdistribution.com

👉 Posh Outdoors: https://posh.dealpage.io/

Connect with Michael on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Email Us at info@hotelinvestorplaybook.com

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Transcript

Michael Russell 0:00

Is luxury clamping just another passing trend? Or is it the future of hospitality? Some people think it's all hype, but the numbers tell a different story. High occupancy rates, premium nightly rates, and investors piling in. The question is, is it still early enough to get in? Or is this a market that's already too saturated? In today's episode, we sit down with Edward Haynes, a leading expert in unique stays and clamping, to break it all down. We're talking about why guests are willing to pay top dollar for these experiences, what separates the winners from flops, and how investors and operators can capitalize on this booming niche. If you've ever thought about creating a high-end outdoor resort, adding unique accommodations to your portfolio, or just want to know where the industry is headed, this episode is for you. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Hotel Investor Playbook, your guide to building wealth and freedom through boutique hotel ownership, hosted by Mike and Nate. Get in the game, welcome to the Hotel Investor Playbook. We're Mike and Nate, founders of Malama Capital. This podcast documents our journey to building a $400 million business, sharing our wins, losses, and lessons along the way so you can apply them to your own journey. On today's podcast, we have Edward Haynes. Edward, welcome to the show.

Edward Haynes 1:29

Hey guys, thanks for having me on. Pleasure to meet you or see you again. Sorry, since uh we were last together. Yeah.

Michael Russell 1:35

That's gosh, how long? Almost a year ago now. And I am very excited to have you on the show. And I feel like this is a really interesting topic that I personally want to know about. But I also feel that our listeners can benefit a lot from your knowledge. So I want to start by asking you in general, can you give us, can you share with us really the story behind glamping in general? And ultimately what's what's driving this tidal wave of demand, so to speak, for luxury glamping experiences?

Edward Haynes 2:10

Okay, so I think uh it's a great question. And you could speak for a long time just on that, but in a nutshell, um there's been a transition to people wanting a different experience in hospitality for quite some time. Um, you know, wanting to get closer to the outdoors, different experiences, more different, unique types of accommodation in areas that aren't metropolitan, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and that was really, really, really pushed forward by the pandemic. You know, we couldn't go and stay in normal hotels, we couldn't do the things we were used to doing. And actually it's um it really pushed forward the traveling in pairs, staying away from big groups, that kind of thing. And it and it was incredibly popular over that time, and that's really when the boom started. Um, and since then, what you've seen is it's transitioned from, you know, I can put five bell tents up in a relatively nice location, which is, you know, traditional glamping, and now it's really moving to unique, smaller resorts, um, landscape resorts is what some people call them, and and the refining of what makes a glamping site um a success is now far more refined than it used to be. Um, but the thirst for certain generations, certainly people below the age of 45, to go to more rural locations that are more secluded and have um you know a vacation, a holiday in a in an iconic location is is definitely um getting more and more popular.

Nathan St Cyr 3:35

Yeah, so okay, so you you kind of went from glamping and then you said landscape, hotel. And I never know, frankly. I'm like, okay, well, what defines each one of these things? And if I'm if I'm speaking with somebody that's doing these these unique stays, and I'm like, hey, how's glamping going? Are they like offended? Like I don't really understand what defines glamping and what defines a unique stay, like when we were out um when we stayed at O'Neira at at Ben Wolfe's um landscape resort, right? Those from a spyglass to the to the you know unique wildflower um rooftop, you know, things that we stayed in. So like how do you define what is what?

Edward Haynes 4:22

Honestly, it's a loaded question because it completely depends who you talk to. To me, glamping is still it still has the essence of as though you were going camping with your family or going away at the weekend, but you're not having to haul your own stuff with you. You're not taking an RV, you're not taking a tent, you are staying in complete comfort. Um, and it might still be down the you know, sort of tented route. So it could be a geodome, it could be a yurt, um, and then what we've really seen is though the unique stays and glamping have just gotten cursed together, in my opinion. Um, to me, a unique stay is still something that is stick-built or hard-sided. Um, and then probably cabins sit right in the middle. So it really does depend on who you speak to as to as to where those uh stop being blurred. Um, there are some people that think that it's all glamping, some people that would say that no glamping is just intense. Um to me, it's all kind of under the unique stay bracket. Glamping is a part of unique stays as are landscape results.

Nathan St Cyr 5:25

Got it. So we would really look at the umbrella is unique stays. And then under unique stays. So we can say unique stays when we're just generally speaking in this type of situation. And then from there, we can go, okay, glamping, and those are a lot of times going to be more of the things like you said, the you know, luxury geodomes. It can be unbelievable, but maybe not doesn't have the the hard stick shell that then we would move into more of the um the unique stay, micro resort, that type of um facility.

Edward Haynes 5:59

Yeah, I would say you'll you'll spot on there. Yeah.

Nathan St Cyr 6:01

Cool.

Edward Haynes 6:02

That helps.

Michael Russell 6:03

Yeah, I want to know. So you mentioned that what really initiated the demand for luxury clamping um or unique stays was uh COVID. You know, people wanted to get outdoors and they wanted to go somewhere that could be uh less confined. And so it inspired people to develop these sites that were um you know not more secluded and and and not run-of-the-mill accommodations. But what I'm wondering is, is that surge of demand still continuing? Is this something that is sustainable? Is this niche of hospitality uh progressing to the point where there's some runway where it's gonna continue to grow, or is it more of just a fad?

Edward Haynes 6:46

I think it's definitely here to stay. Um, you know, that the world has been back at it now for three years, and it actually the demand for these sorts of accommodation and and and stays is is increasing. Um I think what every what what what happened is everybody went outside and got away from everything, and we all realize that we really enjoyed it. So I think um certainly from market data suggests that this this industry will continue to grow significantly over the next five to ten years. Now, of course, I think with with what clamping or unique stays is getting more refined, there may be less of a market for five bell tents in a relatively pretty view, getting 350 USD per night. That's probably gonna get less of a look in than it was four or five years ago because you know, people like Ben and businesses like Posh, which we're gonna discuss later, are going into the market and building something very special. So we will probably see it change ever so slightly, but the den the demand for that kind of stay is I don't think it's going anywhere.

Nathan St Cyr 7:49

Yeah, because I I'll just share with you from my personal experience and speaking with people in the industry, there's there's a a huge craze, but sometimes I go, man, everybody and their brother wants to go and put up these, you know, and call it glamping, and they're like, oh, the returns are gonna be, and and then I'm like, but it's if there's so many people and it feels like they they think that it's more accessible and um easier access to go and go down this this path. Um so in my mind, I'm like, man, is this is this gonna become very quickly oversaturated? Or um is it, you know, is this just kind of the beginning of the the the phase?

Edward Haynes 8:32

I think it's yeah, I think it's probably the beginning of it, truth be told. There are so many different ways that you can apply glamping units, for example, as part of a successful business. It doesn't need to be the whole and and and the entirety of the business. Um, you know, uh EGH distribution, we were talking with someone just yesterday. He owns a bunch of petting uh petting zoos across Florida and Georgia. And he started by putting one or two bell tents on these petting zoos, and now he wants to upgrade to some of the larger ramping structures. Um he doesn't need it to be the main part of his model, but he's fully booked. And the reason why he wants to go from the bell tent model to sort of a geodome or something a little bit more sturdy is because he doesn't want to worry about it when the incremental weather arrives. So I think I think there's so many different experiences out there that you can just add three, four units to, and they'll be fully booked. So it doesn't have to be the the absolute epicenter of the business that you're running either. And then, of course, on the flip side, you've got your auto camps, you've got your getaways that are building resorts all over the place, you've got Ben Wolfe that's building the O'Neill series everywhere. You know, we're seeing large capital and traditional hotel chains coming into the market and buying up some of these bigger chains that already existed. So I don't think it's a fad whatsoever. Um and I think it can be applied on so many different levels that it's going to continue to be pretty successful.

Michael Russell 9:54

Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about what the upside from a business owner perspective is. I think you've uh described that you know, from a from a user perspective, there's obviously a lot of draw to be able to go out into nature and to enjoy the outdoors. And it's it's not a conventional uh commodity style hotel. But from a business owner perspective, why would one want to pursue this route of experiential lodging versus the traditional method of hospitality?

Edward Haynes 10:27

I think the entry to market is the biggest thing. First of all, it costs a lot less to build 10 luxury stay units than it does to build a 50, 50 key or 30-key hotel. So your price per room is significantly lower. Certainly if you're starting in the more towards glamping, you know, sort of sort of realm where you're putting up 10, 20 geodomes, still not cheap. Not cheap point of entry, which is of course also desirable, but but certainly a lot less than the traditional hotel movement. Um and then, you know, data is proven that your average daily rate and your occupancy rates are likely to be higher if you have a unique type of accommodation as opposed to a standard hotel. Um people will, if the price is the same or within the same sort of area, people will choose to say something unique over a traditional hotel grant. That's certainly the case, or what it's suggesting is the case for under 45-year-olds. Now, don't get me wrong, there's going to be people above that that, you know, they love their reward system staying with the big hotel chains, and that'll never change. But for younger people, it's starting to look as though people will lean towards staying in more unique types of accommodation.

Michael Russell 11:39

Right. Can you give us an idea of what these costs are? I know that there's a variety of accommodations and prices can range, but in general, maybe break down what the uh, you know, the the different types of accommodations are and what they typically cost uh to purchase these and install them.

Edward Haynes 11:57

Okay, so high high-level pricing on a few different products that I can speak on that we have uh experience with. So you're good quality Geodome, for example, which is very popular, there's a number of great manufacturers out there. There's DeWards, there's you know F-domes, there's Pacific Domes, there's Harmie Domes, there's loads. It's been very popular for a long time. Um, you don't want to be buying too cheap because it probably means the product is useless. Um and it also, the biggest thing that we are finding, certainly with our customers at EGH, um, is that permitting is getting harder and harder for unique types of accommodation, especially shot SOT shell. So if you go and buy a cheap, unengineered, uncertified soft shell product, you are potentially not going to be able to use it. So you've got to be really careful that you don't do that. But you can buy domes in a variety of different sizes, a variety of different finishings, and they will cost you anywhere from 60,000 USD to 140,000 USD, depending on the market catchment that you're after and the price per night that you're after. Now, if you go and look at things like Sage Outdoor Advisory, a fantastic website, great people. They do amazing, amazing and feasibility studies if you're looking at starting a project. If you're just doing one or two, you probably don't need to speak to them. But if you're looking at a big project, they will tell you um what you need to put together to make sure these units are a success. And there's a couple of things that are really important, you know, um, bathrooms that are private inside the unit. You know, you've got to remember this isn't a shared campsite. And people will book accommodation with private bathrooms. It gives you a much better occupancy rate and a much better price per night. And then there's got to be another reason outside of the accommodation for those people to be there. So the amenities and local attractions are very important as well. Is it a stunning view? Is it hiking locally? Is it beautiful rock formations locally? You've got to have another reason for people to go there. So, but in terms of your upfront costs, it really depends on what part of the market you are going after. Um, but anywhere from 60 to you know 100,000 plus is what you can spend on the tented versions of what we're talking about. Now, when you go into hardsided, that can skyrocket. You know, you can do um, you know, what mentioned Ben again, um, what they've done at Onera with his with his contract of their banks, and they've built beautiful stick-built units. You know, those spyglasses are they've got to be one of the best out there, there's no doubt about it. You know, you're spending hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars per unit. There's no doubt about it. Now you can then meet in the middle, which is a pre-manufactured um sort of stick-built, hard-sided structure. From there, you're going anywhere from 100 to 200,000. So it it's it's vast what you can spend. It really is. Yes.

Nathan St Cyr 14:50

Okay, so let's I want to talk about that part right there because I noticed that you know we stayed at uh O'Nara, so we had the opportunity to stay at Ben Wolf's property. Um and then when I was looking at your website, I noticed that there were similar shaped, the tubular shape is similar to the spyglass. So if I wanted to I could purchase that as a pre-manufactured option. Yes, you can. Yeah.

Edward Haynes 15:16

It's a Spanish manufacturer called tubo, and it's basically a spy glass that's flat-packed.

Nathan St Cyr 15:21

Cool. Okay, and then what would so what would that tubo on average just you know, ballpark range cost if I wanted to purchase that?

Edward Haynes 15:30

So for four to five star tubo build out, sorry, clock behind me. Um for four to five star build out, um, you know, between 80 to 100,000 US. And that would include your debt, your unit, its interior, um, and everything else that goes with it.

Michael Russell 15:46

Hey there. This is Mike and Nate jumping in with a quick favor to ask. If you're enjoying this show, would you just take a moment and go ahead and leave us a five-star review? Your reviews really help us grow our listener base, which in turn allows us to bring on even more high-qualified guests who share their actionable insights and strategies to help you succeed in your hospitality journey. So if you've gotten value from this episode or any of our past episodes, we truly appreciate your support. Tap those five stars, follow the show, and share it with someone you know who's looking to up their game in hospitality or investing. Thanks so much. And now back to the show.

Nathan St Cyr 16:21

That thing would only cost 100 grand.

Edward Haynes 16:24

Yeah, it was. Now, again, because it's flat pack, um, there are some areas of the country where permitting it can be can be difficult. It's got very high wind loads, it's got very high snow loads, it's got it's one, it's it's one hell of a product. Um, but when you're placing it in your lower Floridas and you've got to meet 210 miles per hour, uh, there's a lot more that needs to go into that. So you're not gonna hit that price point. But you still will get, you know, still a lot less than stick built. But the the the the the toss-up that any developer will make, so they work with someone like us at EGH, where they where they buy stuff that everyone can buy. You know, the entry to market is still quite high with our business, our products aren't cheap. But if you go stick built, you're gonna have complete, you know, the the product's yours, it's unique until someone wants to spend the money to copy you.

Nathan St Cyr 17:15

Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. I I so I get that. So can I talk about, let's say I wanted to, because this is like so, dude, this is so interesting to me. So let's say I'm like, okay, I want to have that tubo, right? I want to have 10 of them. Number one, I want to start with, well, what do I need to look for from because I'm sure the key concept here is land and zoning.

unknown 17:39

Yeah.

Nathan St Cyr 17:39

And then secondly, so what would be a like a pre-approved land zoning usage where you don't have to go through some zoning, you know, rezoning of something that that I would work for? And then secondly, what level of infrastructure do would I need to provide on that property? Let's say it's it is correctly zoned and I can put 10 of these things up. What does my actual infrastructure of the land, what's it going to need to entail for me to put these 10 of these things up?

Edward Haynes 18:10

Okay. So the the zoning one is especially in Canada, the United States, is a loaded question because it changes per state, per county, per province. It goes on and on and on. Um, but typically you need it to be, you know, um zoned for commercial use, tourism, or agro agricultural tourism. Those are the three that you're not going to run into any issues with. Then in terms of the horizontal infrastructure, um, you know, electricity, water, septic, they're the big three when it comes to horizontal. Now, you might be close to infrastructure nearby, um, and it might be quite quite cost-effective to connect to that. You might have to bring it all in, which can get very expensive to attach the mains. You may need to go somewhat off-grid. Um, now the thing is with off-grid is it doesn't truly exist in a in my opinion, in a hospitality setting. You know, you st you're still going to need a way of generating power, especially if you're going and you want and you want people to pay the price per night. You need the power, you need the water, you need the septic. Septic can be expensive, but you can usually split septic between the units, um, but you might have to drive that in and out. I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of different boxes to tick there, but there are some really good businesses out there that can help you with all of it. Uh, we do some of it in-house at EGH, um, but there are fantastic agencies out there that will help with your pernitting and get make sure your price points are correct. But the three major ones for horizontal, like I said, if you can connect to septic, you can connect to water, and you can connect to power, it's a pretty simple process.

Nathan St Cyr 19:50

Okay, great. So now I'm gonna take this to I've identified the properly zoned land. I understand what it takes from an infrastructure. Structure standpoint. I have identified that I want to be on a decent view, beautiful scenery, and within let's just say 30 minutes of some sort of attraction, state national park or beautiful thing, thing that someone's going there for. Um, and then I put up this tubo, right? So I've I've I've done the whole land infrastructure permitted right. What can I expect from um from an average daily rate for that type of uh facility?

Edward Haynes 20:36

Okay, so with with the ones that we have built, and so we'll we'll stick on tubo. Tubo is a very new product in the United States, especially. We've got about 15 of them that will be live this year. This spring will be the first ones you can book in the States. Out of our data from Europe, you know, three to 500 euros per night, depending on where you are. At the moment, euro and dollar are basically the same US. So you're looking anywhere between 300 to 500 US a night, depending on what you have to offer and where you are. A really important thing is in all of this is to make sure that you're marketing, especially social media marketing, and there are people out there that can speak significantly better than ICAT to this. Um, but it's really important that you've done that legwork before you open because it is the uniqueness of the structure and the area and how well you market it that's going to bring people to your doorstep. If you it's you hard, just build it and they will come. You've got to put the legwork into it first. So I think um that's one really important factor to remember that the structure won't do all the heavy lifting for you. Um, but but ultimately, yeah, three to three, three to five hundred US a night. And then, I mean, goodness, in the in the market as a whole, we've seen there's way more. You know, if you start looking at look at real experiences, not just the accommodation, but experiences like um have you heard of White Desert, where they fly out of South Africa to the to the poles to watch Emperor Penguins? No. I mean, White Desert is something that's if you want to go and have a look at someone that's nailed it, you're talking about tens of thousands of dollars to go out there. It's the same with um, you know, a couple of the beautiful uh wilderness reserves out on the coast of British Columbia, you know, one two thousand dollars a night to stay in a tent. But because of where it is, people pay it without even thinking about it. Because you're pretty much guaranteed to see, you know, orcas and to see sea wildlife and stuff like that. So again, depending on where you are, it can be ridiculous. It really can.

Nathan St Cyr 22:44

It just made me ready to go. Let's go.

Edward Haynes 22:46

Gosh. I mean, that a few of those spots are on my uh they're on my list. And I I if I ever get to a position where I can go, I will 100% be going, put it that way.

Nathan St Cyr 22:56

Yeah, well, look, we're we're we're talking about some of the business side and the infrastructure and what it takes more learning. But I one of the other things that I find about this space is that I'm typically meeting the people that have the most passion for genuine authentic experience that are wanting to go into this segment. Like it's their life kind of it's it's what drives them in their life. And so therefore they're like, oh my gosh, I've found the passionate part of how I can combine what I'm most passionate about and at the same time connect a business to it. And so, you know, just in in in kind of walking through this, I'm getting all like freaking my mind is spinning.

Edward Haynes 23:40

I'm I'm pumped. I think I think a lot of it, you know, is certainly how this industry started was passion projects. You know, what can I do to run my own business? You know, I've got this beautiful piece of land, what can I do? We're only just starting to see the big boys come to play.

Michael Russell 23:56

All right. I want to double-click on that because we're talking about this passion project where these are unique stays, these are independently operated, but who is running the business? Right? Like you've got this structure, whether it's um a geodome or some sort of hard structure, but then ultimately it is still a hospitality asset. People are going there for an experience and they wake up in the middle of the night and they say, you know what, the power just went out. What do I do? Who is there to help these people? How who you know is this do these glamping sites, are they typically run with on-site staff or are they remotely operated?

Edward Haynes 24:35

Again. There's both ends of the spectrum there. There are, I like traditional hospitality. When I go somewhere, I like to be looked after. That's just that's just part of it for me. So there are some sites that were started by men and women that have my ethos, where there are on-site stuff all the time, and it's part of the experience, getting looked after, learning about the local, you know, the local everything. And then there are others where you book it online, you go in, you use your keypad to get in, you can book everything on an app, you know, whether it's your meal for that evening that will be in the fridge so that you can put it into your kitchenette's oven. There are there are both ends in the Grand Ping and Unique stays side. And I don't think there's a right answer uh it as to which way is the best way to go. I do think it's it's a feeling um in terms of how you want to run your site. For me, on sites that that that I run, if I'm ever in that at that point, it will be I still like traditional hospitality. I like people on site, I like being looked after. But the other model, in terms of um as contactless as possible, is it has also proven very popular.

Michael Russell 25:37

Right. So I want to preface this. You're in the business of supplying uh manufactured products. EJH distribution provides essentially a turnkey solution, from what I understand, for people that perhaps have land and have the setup and then need the facility, and you will source it from a number of suppliers that can deliver a product that they can install on their land and ultimately run one of these clamping sites. And I I give that because I give a little description because I understand that you know your expertise is in the manufacturing, sourcing, distribution. But I'm I'm wanting to get an understanding of the financials here. And we know from a very high level you've described the revenue potential, but I'm a little unclear on ultimately what the net income is going to be. And so a big piece of that is understanding spent expense ratios. Um, you know, from a general rule of thumb, when you look at a typical hotel, it might be 65% is an expense ratio that you could plug into a financial calculator and, like I said, high level, get a quick understanding of what a potential is for a location. With this model, I'm very unclear on, you know, I can see what the revenues are. I can be like, hey, put 10 of these uh, you know, tubos on a piece of property and it's a killer property, and I can generate the revenue. I have no idea what it's gonna cost to run this thing. In general, what can people expect from an expense ratio?

Edward Haynes 27:01

Goodness. I mean, put me on the spot because I don't run resorts and I don't run hotels. Um, so I can't, I don't want um what I be what I say to be taken as gospel, but what I can tell you is from an investment perspective, on a tent side of things, a geodone, something like that, you can expect to make your money back in as little as 18 months on the entire setup. So um the the ROI on them is very, very good. And then obviously on the resort side of things, that's gonna become less because there's a lot more with running a full resort than there is with just putting a few geodones up in your in your uh on your land. So my advice to be if you want those kind of metrics would be to get Connor from Sage Outdoors Advisory on, because there is nobody better to talk to that than him. Um so like I you know, and I'm I'm happy you brought up the manufacturing side because I'm under the plug that just builds things and puts them up and down and such. So, but I think you should get Connor on here if you want to talk about the um the what you can expect from just running a resort and also your returns.

Michael Russell 28:01

Okay, cool. Well, maybe then we'll use this as an opportunity to shift gears and we can dive into your other business, which is posh outdoors. Yes, if you can give us a quick overview of what exactly is posh outdoors and what how is this serving the market? What what unique service is this providing to serve the market?

Edward Haynes 28:24

Okay, so Posh Outdoors um is essentially a luxury glamping and mini resort company. And what happens and what we do there is create high-end glamping experience in beautiful locations. The biggest mandate of the company is only build in iconic location. Now, what we do that's different to others is rather than developing the sites ourselves, we part with landowners. So, and then we provide them the structures. So if you have a landowner that's permit ready, but perhaps doesn't have the rest of the capital to monetize the land, that's where we come in. And that is because traditional lenders find this market at the moment a little bit scary. They're not quite sure which way it's going to go. Whereas those of us that have worked in it know that when you get it right, it's a very safe bet. And we identify that there's a gap in the market at the moment, because traditional lending isn't as bullish on it, for people like Posh to come into the market and help place units and therefore monetize land a lot quicker than perhaps someone on their own own could do. So the way that we work is you know, the landowner has the property, has the permit, and they need to prepare the land. So that includes the horizontal infrastructure, the water, the electric, the septic. We then deploy luxury year-round units. In some cases, there could be geodose because that's applicable to that area. In some places it could be tubos, it could be mirrored cabins, it could be stick-built, depending on where you are. And then the way that it works thereafter is it's a revenue share on the on the units. So Posh Outdoors retains a percentage of the revenue generated by those units on a pre-agreed split over a pre-agreed time. So our first project, which is Skyridge and Canonascus, um, Alberta, Canada, it's a 20-year agreement and it's a it's a 30 to 35% revenue split.

Michael Russell 30:19

So thinking about your ideal partnership, who would you, when you're evaluating whether this would be an opportunity for Posh Outdoors, who would you typically identify as uh the type of partnership that would work effectively?

Edward Haynes 30:34

Anyone that is um has a hospitality background, because obviously we're not operating the sites. So it's incredibly important that the landowner has someone in their in their sphere that that knows hospitality. And then also most importantly, just an iconic site that is is permitted for development. That's the biggest thing. Um, otherwise, you can get stuck in the red tape for years and trying to rezone that that land. So the whole idea is that as soon as we're ready to go, we get this thing up and running in six to eight months, as opposed to two to three years. Um, posha strength is being able to deploy units quickly as opposed to having to wait forever. I see.

unknown 31:15

Okay.

Nathan St Cyr 31:16

The landowner does not pay for the the structure. They have to have it horizontal ready, like you said. But you come in, because in my mind, I'm like, all right, a revenue split of 35%. And then I'm like, all right, well, typically that's what your NOI is going to be in a traditional model. So then what is the oh, but I but I didn't what I didn't account for is there's zero investment from the actual structure standpoint. And that's yeah, so all the vertical is us.

Edward Haynes 31:46

So the structure, the decks, the stuff, the screw piles, the interiors of the units, any of the amenities on sites, whether it's event venues or saunas or anything like that, is posh outdoors. And then obviously we are commanding a pretty solid price per night. So outside of your traditional models, there's still enough for everybody to make a fantastic return over the length of the agreement.

Michael Russell 32:09

Are there any examples of anyone doing this at scale right now?

Edward Haynes 32:13

Oh goodness. There is a there's a company in Europe, a Spanish company. I don't want to butcher their name, but they have been doing incredibly well. They have done an incredibly good job, sort of on the lower end of the market. So your bell tents and your and your pop-up stuff. Um, what Posh Outdoors is trying to do is do the is do the top end of the market. So the higher price per night, the the more luxurious locations. Um, and there are a few other companies out there that are doing it on a on a smaller scale. There's a company called Branch Out Ventures, which are doing it in the United States. But we would be the first ones that are deploying units that are worth over 200k a unit.

Michael Russell 32:50

I see. So what you're describing here, you've got a couple different models. You you can supply someone the product, the the structures if they want to just purchase them and then install them themselves and then run it. But if their goal is to have something that can be turnkey, that's a little bit faster to install, then you will handle all of the design and and infrastructure, uh, building of the actual units, and then just hand it over to them for them to operate then on an ongoing basis. Um, so the partnership there, they're they're depending on you to provide the structure and you're depending on them to provide the service. Because if they're not necessarily great operators, then your return on that investment is presumably going to be pretty poor. If they shut down and move to Mexico, then you've just lost your investment.

Edward Haynes 33:37

Yeah, of course. I mean, we retain we retain ownership of the units. Um, so there is always grounds for us to remove them if the partnership is not going well. But we're very, very careful in our vetting of our partners. So our first location, which we should have our units open by May in Canada here, um, you know, they are tried and tested hospitality entrepreneurs. They've had two successful glumping sites that they sold in order to fund this far more expensive venture. And the only reason why we managed to get in as Posh Outdoors is because they had to put such an expensive uh wildfire suppression system around the outside of the uh location. So they they run out of money to put the last 10 units in, which is where we come in. So we do have to be incredibly careful in our vetting process and making sure that we're working with the right people. It's not um posh is not a business that will work with anyone. It's you need to meet this criteria and we need to have all of our legal documents bind, and then we will move forwards.

Nathan St Cyr 34:38

Yeah, smart. So this this is really all uh this is so much about capital. Because, like we said in the beginning, in this space, lending institutions, it can be more difficult to um receive lending. So here, if you're somebody that already has the land, potentially a business that you're operating on the land, therefore it's it's less you know risk adverse to go and grow your business. But man, to get the capital to go and do this, especially if you've never done it before, banks are gonna be like, yeah, we're not we're not gonna go give you, you know, $1.5 million to go and and put 10 of these $150,000 um killer things on your property. It's not gonna happen. And so therefore, you provide that solution. Look, you've got the land, here's a partnership, we bring you this. So it's it's almost like you're a solution for the capital, which we all know is a massive, massive obstacle that we all have to overcome.

Edward Haynes 35:40

Yeah, absolutely. And and also a solution to speed to market. So the team that we have are a team that, you know, can get the permitting, the zoning, you know, help with pretty much every facet of getting that business going. And then we also um we can also manage um the the marketing and booking as well, if that's not something that you already have in your wheelhouse. You know, I'll name drop them again for example, who we'll be working with then, for example, on on locations where we need the marketing and and management services. So it's very much a uh a business that keeps experts in their lane. And the whole idea is that the speed to market is significantly quicker. Yeah, you're right, Nathan. The biggest problem that we're solving is is the capital problem.

Nathan St Cyr 36:21

Yeah, love it. I mean, that's the the best way to create a a thriving business, right?

Edward Haynes 36:26

It is, yeah. And we're and and truth be told, you know, we've had some people that that think we're nuts, but we we've got pretty high um confidence. So, you know, after this first unit, we do expect uh sorry, first location, we expect things to start moving really quickly. Um, and this first location has at times been been difficult simply because we kind of gone back on our own rules that the land needs to be ready, permitted, etc. etc. But this location is so breathtaking and it's in an area where development is just not going to be allowed again. Um, so we would have been nuts not to take it. And as a first location, it really sets the bar of where we have to go next because anything less than skyrish just won't be acceptable. So um, you know, it's we're 35 minutes, 45 minutes from Banf and Lake Louise. It's one of the best ski corridors and and and you know, the great outdoors corridors on planet Earth. Um so, and it took you know five years to get the landlease. So it's just a no-brainer, and it's been, you know, at times, as everybody knows, starting a business is painful. So we are 100% committed, and we're pretty certain that once dispersal and gets up and running, we're gonna have the numbers to prove everyone that we were right.

Michael Russell 37:44

I love it. Yeah, I like this business model, and I'm curious. You know, typically what happens is you get people that trailblaze pioneers in a certain niche, and they start to experience success. And then the big boys in the market, like the Marriott's of the world, they go, Whoa, what's going on in this area? And how can we take advantage of this market as well? Are you getting uh can you articulate what's going on in that realm? Um, have any of these large hospitality companies expressed interest in the glamping market? And have they developed any products that could potentially be uh, you know, they could be potential competitors to the smaller operators that are considering opening these types of locations?

Edward Haynes 38:25

I think it's already starting to happen. I mean, as we saw, um, it was only weeks ago that Hilton took over what was formerly named Getaway. Um, and we've seen other acquisitions in the market, you know, um private equity bought Autocamp, and we've seen um obviously Ben Wolf's first location in Fredericksburg get bought by some at hotels. It is certainly starting to catch their eye. Um, the one thing that you potentially lose when um when the when the big money gets involved is you potentially do lose what makes that site special. That's my opinion anyway. You know, a lot of these places are special because of the people that run them and the passion behind them. Um, you know, there's a there's a there's a location in Tennessee called Your Glamping Inventure that we've worked with. And when I've been there and read the guest books, it's as much about their experience dealing with the owners and the people that operate the site as it is about how amazing the accommodation and stay was. And I do think as you get more traditional forms of hospitality getting involved with the unique stay kind of thing, um, you kind of lose that personal touch and you lose the authenticity of the story behind the location. Which I think is really, really important. You know, a passion project that someone built when someone said when when nobody said they could, uh, is far more impressive than going and staying in a merit. Sure. So I think that's that's that's the one thing. It's starting to happen, and now it is happening, it won't be stopped. But I think there's always going to be room for the smaller startups and smaller businesses that are passion projects because. People relate far more with them. Yeah, definitely.

Michael Russell 40:04

So let's say someone if someone wanted to get started in this business, having uh witnessed now as a distributor of this product, you've probably interacted with plenty of uh owner operators. What from a high level, what kind of advice would you give someone who's interested in exploring this route?

Edward Haynes 40:22

Start with any means. Um start with, you know, test the water, see if it's for you. We've had people with with plenty of money get into it and realize that actually running a hospitality business is nothing like running a tech business or nothing like running a separate business. I think you have to have a real passion for hospitality to want to do it. Um, it's not um, I know, I think it's quite thankless sometimes working in hospitality, and that is essentially, in essence, what you're what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. Um, and you know, there's some nitty-gritty involved. You're gonna have to get your hands dirty, especially with these smaller passion projects. So I would say start within your means, make sure that you are picking product that if a hurricane hits it, it's not gonna go anywhere to a degree. I mean, if it's seasonal, by all means, build whatever you want, take things down, and that's one way of doing it. But if you are going for a year-round experience, pick a product that's safe. And there are so many fantastic manufacturers and contractors and builders out there that can build you something really special. You know, obviously I want to plug my own business, but we have competitors that do fantastic work. Um, and there are so many different options to choose from. And then, I don't know, make sure that you are concentrating as much on the amenities and outside of the accommodation that attracts people to that site. You know, it's proven the hot tubs, cold plunges, anything to do with wellness, anything to do with wellness, you're onto a winner. And then anything to do with, you know, local agriculture, um, wildlife, anything to do with the great outdoors, you're onto a winner as well. So don't just focus on the on the units and what's inside them. Really focus about what's outside them as well. Because for me, the whole thing to do with Unix Days is if people are spending loads of time in the unit, you've failed. You want people out and about. So that would be my advice. And then just make sure that you are ticking your boxes when it comes to permitting and planning. Because my word, if there have been some horror stories about you know, people not following the rules and then the rules catching up with them. And the and the big thing is with this, is because it's now a booming market, the rules to do with standard construction are catching up. So build as though you are building to building codes would be my biggest piece of advice because then you're not going to get someone coming down the road after you've built it a year or so later and shutting you down.

Nathan St Cyr 42:49

Yeah, Edward, that's dude, that's freaking gold. That advice, just that summary right there, um, that really put a lot into perspective for me and was like, okay, those are really incredible focus points for those that are starting their journey.

Michael Russell 43:06

Yeah, this has been a great conversation. I really enjoy this. There's so much more um I could ask. I feel like we go down the rabbit hole, but we'll take a pause here and we'll wrap this episode up. I I do want to mention that I had a chance to visit uh your Posh Outdoors website, and it's one of the best, one of the better websites I've seen that is providing the kind of a virtual pitch deck, so to speak. And um, so you've done a fantastic job there of representing your product or service. Um, and if you have a chance, uh, I would encourage any of our listeners to go and visit your your website. Your other company is EJH Distribution. Um, if someone wanted to get in touch with you or otherwise um learn about your two different businesses, uh, where can they get a hold of you?

Edward Haynes 43:51

Well, they can either email you directly at e.haynes at ejhdistribution.com or they can call me, um, which uh my number's all over the website, as is our direct lines to all of our guys. Um, we love being involved in projects, whether we end up working on them or not. Um, to us, it's good karma to help people get going in the hope that they come back around later in their journey if they don't choose to work with you at the very beginning. And then on Posh Outdoors, you can reach out to us via the white via the WeFunder page or directly to myself as well. We are actively still looking for investment for that business um to re-ramp things up. So if um if listening to this has piqued your interest, I'd love to get you on with our CFO who knows all the interesting stuff outside of just how to build the boxes people stay in.

Michael Russell 44:36

Awesome. All right, he's Edward Haynes. We are Mike and Nate, wrapping up another episode of the Hotel Investor Playbook. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll catch you next time. Aloha