Building a Scalable Outdoor Hospitality Brand Through Franchising | Brian Linton E36

In this episode of the Hotel Investor Playbook, Mike and Nate sit down with Brian Linton, co-founder of Finding Promised Land, Camp Ferncrest, and The Rex Hotel. Brian shares how he transitioned from building a $20M apparel company to launching one of the fastest-growing outdoor hospitality brands in the U.S.

Key Topics:

• How a rundown motel purchase during COVID led to a hospitality empire
• Navigating zoning issues, STR restrictions, and neighborhood pushback
• What to look for in land: acreage, utilities, proximity to population, and state parks
• Why owning your business outright may beat raising capital
• How Brian is using a franchise model to scale Ferncrest to 100+ sites
• The power of social media: growing to 350K+ followers and millions in revenue

Whether you’re an investor, a landowner, or just glamping-curious, this episode is packed with insights on how to scale a meaningful hospitality business without sacrificing ownership or creativity.

Got a deal you want to discuss? Send it our way here: https://link.apisystem.tech/widget/form/28iLM67xiWWNkekg8ONt

About Brian

Brian is the founder of Finding Promised Land, a hospitality and education company helping landowners turn underutilized land into profitable glamping retreats. After building United By Blue into a $20M sustainable apparel brand, he transitioned into outdoor hospitality with The Rex Hotel and Camp Ferncrest. Now focused on scaling Ferncrest through a franchise model, Brian is on a mission to make nature-based stays more accessible, profitable, and thoughtfully designed.

Connect with Brian

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianlinton/

Website: https://findingpromisedland.com/

Instagram: @findingpromisedland & @campferncrest

Connect with Michael on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Email Us at info@hotelinvestorplaybook.com

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Transcript

Michael Russell 0:00

In today's episode, we sit down with Brian Linton, co-founder of Finding Promised Land and the Ferncrest franchise. After building and exiting a $20 million apparel company, Brian made the leap into outdoor hospitality, growing a glamping brand with over 350,000 Instagram followers and a franchise model that's now gaining national attention. We dig into how he turned a rundown campground into a high margin hospitality asset, how the economics of glamping stack up against boutique hotels, and why he's using franchising, not syndication, to scale his brand. If you've been exploring alternative plays beyond traditional hotels, this one's packed with insight. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Hotel Investor Playbook, your guide to building wealth and freedom through boutique hotel ownership, hosted by Mike and Nate. Get in the game, welcome to the Hotel Investor Playbook. We're Mike and Nate, founders of Maloma Capital, and your hosts. On this podcast, we talk story about everything you need to know to make money investing in hotels and hospitality assets. On today's episode, we've got Brian Litton. He's one of the husband and wife team behind Finding Promised Land, the Rex Hotel, and Camp Ferncrest. And him and his wife have gone from building a $20 million apparel brand to creating one of the fastest-growing outdoor hospitality platforms in the country. Brian, welcome to the show. Thank you. You've had real success with boutique hotel investing. You've converted a rundown motel into a top-rented property. And I can tell you're commanding premium nightly rates, but it seems like you've made the strategic pivot into glamping. And I guess I want to know why the shift from your perspective. What are the key differences between boutique hotels and glamping as an investment? Operationally, financially, maybe even emotionally. Walk us through that.

Brian Linton 2:06

Okay, great question. I mean, the way we got into glamping and the reason for originally buying our first campground and opening Ferncrest was I would say not as strategic as it is now. The very brief story is that when we first bought our first motel in 2020, sort of the early stages of COVID, we wanted to get out of the city, Philadelphia, that is, and we wanted to buy like a cabin in the woods. And instead of a cabin, though, we found a rundown motel, which was probably cheaper than the cabin because everybody was buying cabins at the time to get out of the city. And we found this, and nobody was really thinking in 2020. It was still like people were gun shy of that, of hospitality because of what was going on. We we bought the motel because it was going to be a place to actually use for ourselves. So we were like, oh, we'll move into the owner's unit and we'll get this thing stood up and then we'll probably go back to our previous lives. And what ended up happening is we fell in love with hospitality first and foremost. Also fell in love with outdoor hospitality because at the time I was running an outdoor apparel brand, which was very much focused on outdoors and conservation and the enjoyment and the recreation in the outdoors. So this thread of the outdoors and the love of the outdoors was something that had been going on for many, many years prior. And so getting into the outdoor hospitality industry was definitely a breath of fresh air. Not only was it more profitable than selling clothing, it was it was a better lifestyle and it had more scalability and more growth opportunity and just a better fundamental sort of financial model, right? Like the idea of having an asset backed in real estate, having something that didn't have like inventory and seasonality changes that we were seeing with the clothing industry, not having supply chain issues that we were having with, I mean, not that construction doesn't have supply chain issues, but the the clothing industry at the time was going through a massive supply chain issues in 2020 and 2021. And so what that led to was wanting to do another project. And at the time, this this small town of Promised Land, which is the name of our Instagram, finding Promised Land, it's it's a really small mountain sort of like town that's seen better, better days. It's it's got a lot of rundown buildings in it. And it was like, let's just keep on buying projects in this area and sort of have a have a thesis that we're gonna develop a variety of businesses in this town. And so it wasn't even limited to lodging and hospitality. It was like, let's just buy properties in this, in this town and and basically redevelop Promised Land. And the next project seemingly was that, hey, we got to get more heads and beds in this town to to make to make it work. And so down the road was a campground, wasn't for sale, but it wasn't really being run. It was it was a primitive RV campground. So we had all these RVs in there and some bathhouses, and it didn't seem like it was being run. So so basically it was an opportunistic reach out to the owner, acquired that, and developing that is when things blew up on social media for us. We started to see, hey, like not only is this maybe a more interesting model overall, like the the interest in it is there. The the social media proof in the pudding was there. We grew right out of the gate, 100,000 followers and 200,000 followers, then 300,000 and more. It was, it was the human interest was there. And then also the economic financial interest became clear that, like, hey, like maybe the financial model of investing into this is a more scalable model than the bricks and and sticks construction model of boutique hospitality.

Nathan St Cyr 5:41

I'm writing notes as I'm going because I want to dig into a couple of things. And the financial viability piece that you ended up finding and creating a a direction is obviously something that we want to dig into. But I want to back up to something that you said about Promised Land. Well, you described it in a certain way that that wasn't in the highest and best light. And then you said, but we wanted to stick here and grow this and redevelop here and get more people coming here. What is it about Promised Land that you felt like here's this hidden potential that we could capitalize on?

Brian Linton 6:12

So I think there's a lot of towns in the US that are have a lot of natural character and beauty, especially around state parks. Like they're not in the news, they're not, they're not the place that you would know. But it turns out that's the case for a lot of like places like this in the US. They're that they're not, they're not the Yosemites, the Joshua trees, the Acadias. They're they're they're smaller and they're they're more localized. But it turns out that this town was just sort of the quintessential small Appalachian mountain town with uh two lakes up right in inside of it, a a 3,000-acre state park. You have like just just gorgeous natural beauty. And then you also have like proximity to New York City and Philadelphia. You're so you have a lot of population around there as well. And then you have the Catskills at the doorstep, you have gorgeous boutique hotels there commanding premiums and real estate market that had grown a lot. And so just like investing in a city, we also have a hotel. I don't know if you know that. We have a boutique hotel in Philadelphia as well. The difference between like investing in the outdoor hospitality world and investing in like a city is like you see a city develop over time or redevelop over time, where it's like, oh, that neighborhood, then it's like the next neighborhood over. In the case of the Poconos and the Catskills, the Poconos is definitely the Catskills sort of like ugly sister in terms of the appeal of what it offers when it comes to hospitality. But from a natural beauty standpoint, it's equal. So there's no reason why you can't see the Poconos develop in a similar way as the Catskills.

Nathan St Cyr 7:43

Got it. So there's some parallel in your thesis, right? Regardless of if it's in the city or if it's in wherever, you've identified areas where there's the growth is coming. That's your kind of your thesis, whether it's growth or opportunity based on what you're seeing that's happened right ahead of that. And you noticed that about Promised Land. And then I'm assuming you went into Promised Land with the first motel. And then you're like, oh, the thesis was right, which wanted to make you expand.

Brian Linton 8:13

Exactly. I mean, it was it was two, two sort of iterations, right? It was first, it was the this model, hey, let's, let's, let's expand an outdoor hospitality in Promised Land because this thesis works. But then with with Ferncrest and everything that went on with that over the last few years, that it was like, well, okay, let's pump the brakes on this thesis, even though, even though the thesis holds true about Promised Land and the Northeastern portion of the Poconos, I've I've shifted our focus now because of this, these, these business learns to now focus almost exclusively on growing the firmcrust model through the franchise model, because it for many reasons, it suits our strengths and our it suits our historical business experience as well to be able to scale a platform through our marketing, through our social media, through our educational aspect and the way that we can help people through a franchise model in a much more scalable, capital efficient way than if we were to go up, continue to buy campgrounds on our own. And really, there's not there's nothing wrong with any of these models, like the Promised Land model, redeveloping that would have been a great thing. And I I probably would have loved to do that. So too would buying other campgrounds similar to maybe what you're doing with hostels, going out and like I would I've heavily contemplated raising capital, going out and snapping up campgrounds here and there. From my experience, I raised a lot of capital for the apparel company. And I really was not in love with the capital raising model anymore. I had raised $18 million. Really, really a lot of challenges with the the dynamic that happened with having capital partners and being a very like sort of, I don't know, I don't want to say a loose cannon entrepreneur, but like like just liking the freedom of having my own capital in a project and no longer being able to do that if I raise capital. And so I've I've put off, I've I haven't shut the door on capital, but I've definitely I've definitely decided that this model is something that I really, really want to focus on as a Joanna and I are 100% owners of all of our properties, very low debt, and also 100% owner of the franchise model, which is really great because we own the brand, but then everybody else owns their own properties and are investing their own money into it. And so some would say from a real estate investment standpoint, that model is less of a appealing model because you're not actually buying the properties, but I'm a brand guy and I own the brand that I'm growing. And ultimately that's the real value that I'm creating, is trying to grow an asset in the brand, not so much in the property anymore with the scale.

Nathan St Cyr 10:38

I love it. And I want to dig into that a little bit more, but I want to go back to something. So Mike and my journey are a little bit opposite from the capital side where we bootstrapped everything to the point where we've gotten to where we are. And then the concept was all right, now we've proven this success. Now let's go and capital raise. And we've just gone through that first process, which was we learned a ton, but in a very short amount of time, we we we raised quite a few pledges and commitments on a on a project. But you said that there were things you didn't like about the capital raise. And I just I want to dig into that a little bit. If because I think a lot of times we focus on all the things that do work and all the success people have. But I want to know, like, dude, what sucked? What didn't you enjoy about that?

Brian Linton 11:27

It is a little bit different between, say, like the apparel world or or the consumer goods world and raising capital for a business like that versus raising business for real estate, because in many ways, real estate investors that you're raising capital from, they're they're essentially buying into like these hard assets that you actually own. Whereas like other business businesses, they're buying into the equity of the business itself, which is not rooted in really it has assets, but like those assets are not like hard assets like real estate. In many ways, they're they are two different things. However, the the dynamic of both raising and managing investors is probably similar in the sense that it becomes almost a full-time, definitely a part-time job, is the fundraising and then the management of the investors. It changes the dynamic of of being an entrepreneur and it's not a bad thing, but it but it definitely creates like a lot of stress and tension and almost a dynamic where you do have a boss in some ways. Like it's it's not it's not in the in the literal sense, but it is in in in you are obliged and you you are now sort of looking at the investors as a part of your organization and in some ways superior to your position because you really want to make sure that you return their capital and you really want to appease them in in all ways possible. When when I when I think of the way that I run my business, I really don't want to have partners at this stage, especially early on when you're when you're moving so fast. And I I think of our business right now as a very much, even though we're we're scaling rapidly, we're we're in a very, very significant startup phase where decisions have to be made, things have to be invested into, hires have to be made. All of this can't you can do without advising and consulting with investors, but there is like this friction and this tension with with certain investors where they really feel like they they need to know more. And it just takes away from the hardened soul of being an entrepreneur and just moving fast and breaking things. And so again, it's not that like as we scale that investors are are not something that we would entertain. But at this stage, and I think I raise capital too soon with the clothing business. At this stage, it's super important for us to just like really own our own business and and focus on the fundamentals because investors can get in the way a little bit.

Michael Russell 13:40

Yeah, there's there's a level of responsibility to your investors, and that affects your decision making. One of the things that makes entrepreneurs successful a lot of times is the capacity to take on risk, which as an individual or a partnership, you can measure your own risk and make decisions based on what you're comfortable with. But when it's other people's money, you have to change your mindset because your responsibility is to make sure that you don't lose their capital. You you have an obligation to protect their interest. And that can sometimes mitigate the ability to take on risk that could potentially springboard you to a much higher payout and reward. That's number one. Number two, if you're sharing in the upside, then it also, in a sense, diminishes like what your own value is because you're not getting the whole piece of the pie. The investors are getting a lion's share. It changes the whole nature of what you're doing to a degree. I absolutely can resonate with that with you. And I think Nathan's question was like, is there anything specifically that occurred? Like, what are the pain points that you really felt like in going through that in in your previous experience where you were raising money for your apparel company? Do you have any like anecdotal like stories of something where you're like, gosh, I never want that to happen again?

Brian Linton 14:54

Yeah, sure. I mean, terms and and structure of of deals that can backfire for us, like we had one where we had a convertible note on on our on our on our business at the time. And it was like a million-dollar convertible note, and it had certain certain terms in it, which would have triggered significant sort of equity for them if certain things were to happen, certain thresholds, right? Of of like valuations. So if it's below a certain valuation, liquidity preference on that convertible note goes up, and you have to like, it's basically worth worth a bunch more. So like two X's and becomes like worth $2 million. You can keep things very simple, a lot more simple with with real estate than just pure, pure startup equity. But some of those things really backfired. And by the end, I I went from obviously everybody starts at 100% with part with them or their partners. It was basically me at first, and it was 100%. And by the end, I owned like single digits of United by Blue. And that really does make an entrepreneur that's highly motivated by equity, highly motivated by autonomy and ownership, feel like it's no longer their thing. And same thing would would happen if I was walking through this this hotel experience or or or ferncrest. And if I owned, just thinking about if if we took the same path, if I owned 10%, what would I feel like? Like certain people would be highly motivated by 10%. There's plenty of employees and people that would join a team that would be highly motivated by 1% or 2%, knowing that they're a part of it, right? But yeah, like I'm an owner and I'm I'm a true sort of like owner operator. Um and I am highly motivated by the sense that like this is ours and and we have we have ownership of it. And so I think you nailed it on the head, where it's like as that, as that equity and ownership comes down, and that's the working for somebody else's part that I think is more so symbolic than anything, is like when you're just working to build somebody's else is is is equity and value, you really second guess like what you're spending your time on and you start to get distracted. And I think that's where you start to not take the risk with their money, but then you start to, as a, as a, as somebody that's really entrepreneur-minded, you start to get your your eye off the ball a little bit, at least for me, and you start to think about, well, what if? Like, what if I did this, but it's not a part of this? And and you really got to stay focused in business. And the best way for me to stay focused on business is if I'm really motivated by ownership.

Michael Russell 17:21

Okay. So I I love that. And I think all of that was relevant. I want to circle back to the original question, which is comparing investing in boutique hotels to glamping. And what you're describing, give your timeline here. You went out and you bought a boutique hotel. Well, first of all, you you had success in building an apparel brand. You just mentioned that you weren't satisfied ultimately when it sold because your share got diluted, but you had experience in building a brand. So you have the, from a marketing perspective, the know-how and expertise on how to market a product. Then you go and you buy a boutique hotel, you establish your experience in converting a motel into something that is significantly more profitable. Then you realize, wow, we need more heads and beds. Let's do scamping, let's let's scale this thing out, and you have success there. And you continue to do so on a number of projects. And then you realize, well, look, we've actually become somewhat authoritative in this and we know what we're doing. Why don't we teach others how to do it? And then you started this education program, mentorship, and now a franchise model as well, to where you basically offer your playbook and exchange, people can go do it, and they own it outright. So they get the lion's share of the profits, but but they also don't have to do it all alone where they're starting from scratch. They get to learn from your experience over the years. So this seems logical that from not only from a financial perspective, but from a personal fulfillment perspective, a win-win for everybody. I want to go back though to this glamping model as it relates to boutique hotels, because it can be difficult to go and buy a boutique hotel. And that can be one of the reasons why it could be very profitable, is because if everyone can do it, then it would there wouldn't be money in it. And when I'm thinking about glamping, I just can't help but wonder, well, there's very little barrier to entry compared to investing in boutique hotels. And so on the one hand, that can be attractive if you're building a model out to scale. But on the other hand, what happens if there's so many of these glamping resorts? Or what happens? Is it does it eventually is it feasible that they're just gonna become so saturated that the the rates, it's gonna drive down, the supply is gonna be so great that the rates are gonna drive down that it won't be sustainable. What are your thoughts on that?

Brian Linton 19:41

My thoughts are, and that's where brand comes into play more so than anything. And I think I think creating a strong loyalty and network effect within this industry is gonna be what makes it defensible. So, yes, there the mom and pop operators are gonna pop up. Yes, there's gonna be more and more people. There's a big difference. Between setting up a few units in your backyard or back 40 or whatever you got, like versus like creating a true hospitality experience, though. And keep that in mind. Like there, there, there's there's a there's a very different sort of like level of investment as well. It's not millions or it's not like uh boutique hospitality millions, but it's like you could still spend a million dollars developing your your your glam crown, right? Which is low from a real estate investment standpoint, but it's still not like everybody's gonna just jump, jump and and be able to open a glamp crown overnight without having either capital or or a source of capital. And and I think that's where the opportunity lies, that mid-market, where it's not the auto camps and the the high-end like 10, 20, 30, 40 million dollar glamping resorts, but it's more of the the sort of mid-market, which is addressing a a broader range of customers as well, the people that are looking for a true hospitality experience and not looking to just like book something on Airbnb or Hip Camp. And so that's where Ferncrest comes into play because we come into this with the mindset that we know levels of saturation could happen in this industry, just like they could happen in any industry, as more people buy rundown motels and redevelop them. And everything has levels of saturation, but it doesn't mean that things just like fall out like they did with, say, BD babies or tulips or, you know, you name the fad. It's really about like the winners are going to win in this industry, and then everything else will sort of just like shake out. It's not gonna be like up and down, it's like up, and then it sort of like levels out and and and and the winners have the lion's share of of what's going on. So we want to be in the winner side. And and that's why creating the the strong sort of like platform of the brand, and then the strong experience of like trying to really narrow down what does Ferncrest stand for? Sort of like you have with, say, KOA or Jelly Stone or the traditional camping sort of franchise models, those are all very viable. There's a large franchise network effect in camping already. There's nothing really in from glamping. And then there's obviously a ton of franchise in hospitality. So the model is there and the market is is is rapidly developing. So who's gonna have that that really strong franchise model? And that's that's what we're focused on doing. And the the way to win, in our opinion, is gonna be the brand and having a strong brand experience that has loyalty, that has like a very strong focus on a customer and a and an avatar that we're trying to target, the person that would traditionally not want to go camping, but still doesn't want to go like high-end landscape resort. They want to, they want to experience nature in a way that's different. They want to have their family, they want to have digital escapism, they want to get away from their phone for a few days. There's a lot of things that are tugging at the human soul right now that is perfectly situated for glamping. And that's what we're focused on.

Michael Russell 22:54

Hey guys, quick heads up. Malama Capital, our investment arm, is full steam ahead on finding our next hotel acquisition this quarter. If you know of a deal or you're working on something yourself and want to partner up, we'd love to hear about it. We offer a generous finders fee, or if it's a fit, we can bring you into the deal for a slice of the equity and give you a front row seat to the whole process from A to Z. There's a short form linked in the show notes. Just drop your name and a few quick details. And if it looks like a fit, we'll be in touch. Now, back to the show.

Nathan St Cyr 23:28

Okay, so can I pepper you with a couple of questions? So I've bought into Ferndale and I believe that I want to go down this route. And I have I have some capital. So I want to purchase, I want to be a part of your system. Okay.

Brian Linton 23:45

Number one, what is it that you're gonna coach me on looking for in my in my so if you come to us with with not have so people come to us with either having land or not having land?

Nathan St Cyr 23:56

I'm open-minded. I I'm I'm I'm really open. I'm like yours to shape. And I've got some capital. I've bought into this. Help me target the the land that I should go and look for.

Brian Linton 24:08

What should I be targeting? So we advise people that the best opportunities are not the big fancy name brand locations. Like let that be for the people that are again investing tens of millions of dollars. You really got to have at least five acres, but we like to see 10. And if you have more, that's gravy. So so 10 is sort of 10 is sort of like the sweet spot. We'd like you to be two to three hours of a of a some form of major population center. Doesn't have to be obviously the biggest cities in the country, but it's got to have a population center where you can draw from. And you got to be within 15 to 20 minutes of some outdoor recreational opportunities. State parks are great public recreation areas like like public land that that can be utilized. So you have like you have like outdoor recreation opportunities that are built into that that don't cost anything for you to do. And and I like to say state parks are a great source of that. There's 6,000 state parks in this country. And just because land is on or 15 minutes away from a state park does not mean it's a premium. We we don't say you can't spend millions of dollars on your land, but you know, you you really should be able to buy land for for a project like this within the one to $300,000 range, not the one to three million dollar range.

Nathan St Cyr 25:18

Yeah. So if we're looking at if we're looking at 10 plus acres, then we're looking at the couple thousand dollars an acre within these parameters are are what what it would cost on the land side. Okay. So now we I've just purchased this 10 acres. I've fit the the buy box as far as what you just shared with me. I got a 15 to 20 minutes apart from a recreational place. I've got two to three hours from a metropolitan, I I bought this thing, I own this thing. Now you're gonna help me with the next phase, right? Now I gotta I gotta build out my my site.

Brian Linton 25:52

What does that entail? So if you go through the process and you sign a franchise agreement, then we're gonna help you basically we're gonna do the site, we're gonna work work with you on the site plan. So we're gonna work with you hand in hand, not only on the site plan for your own purposes to plan out your property, but also you're probably gonna have to submit something like that to the township and start the permitting and approval process. We are not going to physically build your property or physically like go to the municipal buildings and help you with the zoning and permitting, but we will be your support team along the way. And in many ways, these are single owner operators or oftentimes couples, husband and wife, sometimes partners that are doing this together. They don't have a team, right? And so when they buy into a franchise, they're basically buying into a fractionalized team that is now here for them, both an executive team at the higher level, but then also at the sort of administrative level as well. I see emails right now, like from various properties that are giving feedback on how their meetings went with the town and our team giving feedback and support. All of that is sort of like built into the franchise model without sort of a cap or anything. You're not you're not getting billed like a lawyer. So it's really an amazing. I like to tell people like, you can do it on your own by all means. We did it on our own initially, but it is a massive shortcut and a massive benefit to have a team in place that you can just basically tap into for anything at any time. You're gonna compress time and minimize risk. Exactly. And you're going to own 100% of your property still. So you're not actually giving away anything in terms of your property, your value. And this is the very difference thing that I said earlier, which is like, we still have our thing. We are still motivated, we're building our business and we own our business. We want you to own your business, we want you to own your land. We don't want to stake in it. Like people sometimes come to us, hey, like, will you partner with us on these projects and things like that? No, we'll help you. We'll even point you in the directions of getting money. Like we connect people with the capital providers, we get them capital for their project. We recommend debt over equity if they can do it because they can get to a point where the cash flow pays off the debt. They don't have to have an equity partner. But yeah, we're we're we're very involved in the process along the way.

Nathan St Cyr 28:05

Okay. So now we're you're involved with the process. You've helped me do this, you've helped me develop it. What is this thing gonna generate?

Brian Linton 28:12

So that's where franchise uh is interesting, and franchise law actually says that I can't get on here and and and say there's guaranteed returns on anything or like the the reality is that like the return on a on a on a campground or the return on a franchise opportunity versus a non-franchise opportunity, the data is out there, not just for hospitality, but just in general. Franchises in this country have a historical performance of returning 1.8 times more than a non-franchise opportunity. And the reason for that is it's the the network effect, the brand, but also the just a lot of the efficiencies and and and the the business structure is is is built out and it's it's a little bit more of a return.

Michael Russell 28:51

Look, Brian, I gotta ask. What we want to know is let's just use this your example. You forget the franchise. What have you done with your property specifically? Like your glamping property, what did you buy it for? What were the build-out costs? How much does it make in top line revenue? What do you net out at the end of the end of the year?

Brian Linton 29:11

Sure. So we we bought it for 285. Okay. So the the the the initial investment that first year was 350 to get it up and running, an additional 350. We've since put in an additional about 400,000 since then. So we we've put in 750,000 into building Ferncrest into what it is now. The annual return on that is a few hundred thousand. So you there's a few hundred thousand dollars in NOI on a on an investment like that annually.

Michael Russell 29:47

Okay, so roughly 50% of your cost you have you're earning on an annual basis and net net profit.

Brian Linton 29:57

Exactly. So it's ADRs are sitting around like 225. We have 25 sites, and and so there's there's actually upside still as we scale because the the the actual property was 67 sites when we bought it. Um, so it was a primitive RV campground, right? So we we actually we scaled it over time and we're at 25 right now, 25 built-out sites. Each of those sites to build a glamping site, I always like to tell people that obviously there's a huge range in what you can invest to open an individual site. But the good thing about opening sites is that unlike building a hotel or renovating a hotel, you can add very easily without disturbing your whole, your whole business, right? You can you can start with 12 and you could add five more the next year. And it's not like a shutdown operation to like renovate a hotel or something like that. Um so the scalability of that is good because anywhere between 15 to 25,000, maybe 15 to 30,000 with some of the costs that have gone up recently to open a glamping site, an individual site.

Michael Russell 30:59

Okay, but what I want to know is if your return is roughly 300 grand of net. So like I want to know who's running this. Like who who's operating this? Like Brian and Joanna, like they're daily checking guests in and running this thing, or do you have staff working for you? I know you can't talk about the franchise returns and all that. That's why I'm using yours specifically because let's say Mike and Nate want to open up our glamping uh site. So I'm gonna use what you've done as an example and just to kind of come to my own conclusions. But what does this thing bring in top line? I can tell you right now that when we operate a hostel, we can put in the 35% as net income, 65% operating expenses, 35% net income, and that's our model. And we'll look and we'll underwrite, and if it fits that model, we know we're on to something and it's reasonable. We have no idea what's clamping. Are you is this thing gonna bring in 700 grand and it's gonna net $350,000 of net income after paying out staff and operating costs? Like, what do those numbers look like?

Brian Linton 31:58

Yeah, so like the the staff is really lean. The actual like like operations of a property like this would be a a manager of some sort. Oftentimes for us, it it's a hired manager. For many people that are doing the model, it's it's it could be owner-operator. We like to say that the the financials make sense where you start as an owner-operator and then you can transition to a manager and still make still make good returns like we are. And then it's really a smaller maintenance slash cleaning duo, like one or two people usually cross-trained so that you can have a maintenance person still help with cleaning and maybe a cleaning person still help with maintenance, but you really need about two people in that regard. And so your your your payroll is really like $100,000 on a property that can do six to seven hundred thousand dollars in top line. So you're like generally speaking, under 15% in payroll is is sort of like the goal. And then your your other operating expenses, your linens, your cleanings, or not your cleanings, because you're you're actually staffing a cleaner. You're not like doing a third-party cleaning service, but you're you're you're somewhere around like 5%, 5 to 10% for all of those other things. So then you're at like 25% between the sort of like cost of goods sold for the the cleanings and like the linens and the and the work. And then you you have maintenance, you have other, you have other other other other costs involved with that, but you're you're really hard pressed to spend more than 40% of your of your in of your gross revenue on expenses and everything else flows through to NOI.

Michael Russell 33:35

Yeah, no, that's helpful. We've we've heard this before with another operator that had that's having tremendous success and really kind of blew us away because one of the main challenges to buying a boutique hotel is the the real estate is expensive to number one to purchase. I should say the building, right? The building is expensive to purchase and then maintain. There's always stuff that's breaking, there's always capex expensive to put aside. So that is a hurdle. But I I want to pivot a little bit because on the flip side of that, when you have something that is tangible, banks like that. They like to see and feel and know that something exists beyond just dirt. And so if we're talking about close to a million $750,000 of startup capital, let's say, to go and do this. Now I know you can kind of do it over time. You can start with two and four and six and ten and twelve and grow these different sites. But let's just say it's $750,000. You go to a bank and you say, I have this vision to build this thing. What are they going to say? How are banks treating glamping sites?

Brian Linton 34:39

So it's definitely not as easy as buying a traditional real estate, but it is doable. I mean, we've had numerous people get get either traditional bank loans or really, I mean, at the end of the day, it is more of an SBA product for this type of thing. Obviously, the real estate aside from the investment into it is is a is a is a separate thing. But the actual capital for for for building a glamping business, I would say that the the SBA route is is definitely the the the most viable route. I would say that unless you have an existing relationship with your bank, like some people have. Like some people come to us, they have an existing relationship with their bank, they've done other investments. Like this is going to come down to the right bank and the right, the right partnership. And without that, you need you need SBA and you need SBA in the fold to basically de-risk it for a bank. Without the SBA, the risk will be perceived as too great for a bank to do without, without some type of assurances from, from a third party. So I would say that yes, you're you're you're spot on with the observation that it's it's not as easy to finance as if they were going to spend $750,000 on an acquisition for a boutique hotel. But over time, the the goal with the franchise model as well is that the franchise success will help people unlock financing in a much bigger way because right now it's still early. So, so so the franchise model is still in the fold in the approval process for loans. And it helps to a certain degree because it's like, okay, they're they're they're they're a part of something that's gonna have a little bit more stability, but there's still not a track record with a franchise system that allows people to just like immediately get access to capital. Now, that being said, in a year or two, that changes. And when when you go to a bank and you want to open a Chick-fil-A, right, like the bank's all about that. So when you go to a bank and you have a history of performance with the franchise model, things could change, things could change in their favor. And that's another, another reason why the franchise model is so appealing.

Nathan St Cyr 36:33

If I'm but right now, if I'm 700 grand, I've got my cost of my land, I've got my cost of the my build out. You've helped me put together a great business plan based on the franchise, assuming that, all right, we got this whole whole thing locked up. I go to what preferred SBA lender? Is this 7A, 504? What's the what I'm what am I targeting here for the most accessible SBA loan that is out there?

Brian Linton 37:00

So we use a third party that helps guide people through it for the there, it's a franchise SBA lender service, right? Like that there's they're all out there. It's called Benatrends. And basically, so they'll they'll they'll basically look at 7A first and and and see if that's a good fit. And usually that is that is the the route for people to go. The other, the other outside of SBA too, there's also a lot of just because this is not a lot of capital, there's also like other sources of capital that they can pull in, like the ROPS plan for for a lot of people with the access to their their 401k and their their retirement accounts can be a part of the the the funding scenario too. I'm not an S, like honestly, I refer people to Benatrends and then and then they work with them through the process and I get the updates along the way. I'm not a I'm not an expert on SBA, so I don't want to speak to it too much, but I do know that that's like the default, the default route for most people when they when they when they're looking at a project like this. And you nailed it on the head too, like the business plan, the permitting, all of the things that like help with the SBA approval process is baked into sort of how we're helping people. And that's a big part of why a service like a Benatrends can just latch into this and basically be like, okay, FernCrest provide us this stuff for for this property. Yeah. Property owner, it's their personal credit, it's it's all their personal info, packages it together, they take it to SBA, they get a they get the pre-approval, and then Benatran shops it out to the banks and gets them the money. And it goes pretty well. I mean, there there's been numerous instances where people are getting pre-approvals for this, this, this business in the magnitude of 800 to 1.5 million within like a couple weeks. Yeah.

Michael Russell 38:36

I I wanna I want to go back to this idea of identifying the right location. Like what makes a piece of land franchise worthy in your eyes? And you went through and you explained a few things that you're looking for: location, natural attractions, close to some sort of a lake or river, something where there's built-in demand to go there. What about like when you're identifying a piece of land, like what about utilities? What if it's just raw land? Does that automatically discredit this? Like it, you you're not gonna look at that. Do you highly encourage people to only look at existing campgrounds? What is your take?

Brian Linton 39:11

So when when Nate was saying a couple thousand dollars an acre, you you were you were thinking like purely raw land. And and I I wasn't gonna correct you on that, but I think yes, you you nailed it on the head. We don't love when people come to us with purely raw land. I think that that's that's that's a much harder development project than something that has some form of utilities on it already, even if it is just electric an electric pole on it, that's gonna that's gonna make things a lot easier than having to figure out how to bring, especially bringing a road. And like those are the those are the things that people that haven't developed land don't realize. But like, heck, just even bringing a road a few hundred yards could break their budget already. So you don't want to get something too remote and too raw. The goal would be like ideal, ideal, uh ideal would be like what we did, which was like a commercial property that had some infrastructure on it. We had a well. We had a couple bathhouses. We had it, we had electric. Was it in good shape? No. Was it basically like the septics were shot? We had to replace them. But replacing things is a lot easier than doing things new from a permitting standpoint. So anytime you can actually bring in or you can you can renovate versus do from scratch, you're gonna speed your your your your your path up significantly, maybe as much as six months to a year by by doing it that way. That being said, it's not just an old campground that you could do. You could could you could buy like the guy up in Maine, he bought an old mini golf and driving range. So think about that. Like you have you have some of the infrastructure there from a from a from a bathrooms, you have septic, you have clearings, even just land development and clearing costs, right? Of getting rid of some trees and having openings for the glamping sites. So all of that can be benefited by having something like a commercial property that was used for something else that can that can now be converted into a glamping operation. I think that's a great example. The one in Wisconsin that we're working with was an old mobile home park that was a mobile home park, hadn't been a mobile home park for decades now. So the mobile homes are actually not even there. But the, but the actual pads, some of the pads and and the clearings were there. And what that does is that's a grandfathered use for impervious services. In Wisconsin, there's a lot of permitting on the DEP and things that have to do with like things like the land use for runoff and erosion and all this type of thing that we're going through. So those were already sites that were were actually grandfathered in to the ability for them to now redevelop that into a glamping business. So there's a lot of examples and the list goes on and on. So I'd say raw land is the bottom of the list. Now, raw land, raw land is probably the biggest sort of arbitrage opportunity for creating value out of like something very cheap, right? A few thousand dollars, you can make it worth a few million dollars by doing a business like this. But it also is probably the the the hardest to do.

Michael Russell 42:00

What about any like mistakes that you've learned along the way? Can you think of any times where, you know, a property just didn't work up? Maybe even you were close or someone in your organization was close to buying it, and then at the last minute they had to bail and walk away. Can you give us an example of when you know things go wrong or why something doesn't work?

Brian Linton 42:17

I mean, with the glamping world, we've seen many, many projects that we've been involved in bail out of because of zoning and permitting for these types of projects is oftentimes frowned upon in in many places. People, I mean, it's either townships that are getting really aggressive on STR regulations that are now like trickling down into projects like this, even though, even though we're not an Airbnb business, like this is not a STR. This is a this is this is this is essentially a hotel in the woods, right? So, but it it definitely has some some some regulate regulatory issues with with what's happening with STRs impacting this. Other things would be honestly just like our firm knows on glamping. There's there's plenty of townships out there that are that are just saying, no, these are not permanent structures, these are not permissible in in our township. So unfortunately, that that kills projects. And some of those things are not clear until people get into it, right? You know, we we've we've had issues with floodplains coming into play, and because these are projects where people are looking around rivers and water bodies and things like that, where you start to look into the land, and then all of a sudden it's a five-foot floodplain and you got to put everything up on stilts. And it's like, so there's numerous things that have happened. And then also in like neighbors, like neighbor, neighbor resistance to things. There's a project in Michigan right now that has he owns the land, he's going through the approval process. He got the approval process done by the town, and now the whole neighborhood and streets are picketing with like signs, no campground, right? Because they have this this notion that this this quote unquote glam ground that's going to come in is is gonna just be like uh like a tailgating and RV, like they have pictures of RVs on their on their pickets, and they have no idea what they're what they're what they're objecting to, other than the fact that they don't want a campground, right? And so I would say that sometimes campgrounds, public perception of them does get a lot of pushback. Happened in in the main property. He had he had a hundred people show up to a town meeting to object on his campground. And the guy, Caleb, he fought through tooth and nail, and we're there as his support team. He's the boxer, and we're we're there in the corner, just basically sometimes just wiping the blood from his face to just give him the encouragement to go back in the ring. And he got it approved. And so that property is opening later this summer. It's definitely a a mix of issues, and and not everybody can be like Caleb and fight the town like he did, tooth and nail. A lot of people, and we work with some people right now that don't want to fight. They just want, they want to find the right piece that's not gonna require that. And I would say, hey, if you don't own the land already, find find a town that's gonna accept it and find a place that's not gonna object to it because that's the flexibility that you have if you don't own it. Now, there's a lot of people that own land. This is we get a lot of landowners. I would say 80% of the people that come to us that want to do something, they come to us because they own land already and they're looking for an opportunity like this. And so those, those are the people that end up having to go through this process and potentially have have have more issues than people that have the flexibility of buying land.

Michael Russell 45:22

Yeah. Cause I'm listening to you and I'm going, well, screw that, man. I'm not trying to buy no raw land or buying an area that's not doing us. I'm gonna look for the campgrounds and I'm gonna convert those because they're already up and running. And it just reminds me a lot of buying a motel and turning it into a boutique hotel, marketing it, better linens, better photos. That same concept applies to putting in a cool, what do you call them, geodesic dome and marketing in, putting in campfires where people will congregate. It reminds me a lot of the hostel model in a sense, where you got these individual spaces to sleep, but then you have shared facilities. Maybe you've got obviously the shared restrooms, maybe you've got like shared common area where people will gather for cooking or for campfires or for shuffle board, or maybe it's you put in a what's all the rage pickleball, right? Maybe you put in for a hundred grand, you put in a pickleball thing and people go nuts over it. But like the idea is the accommodations are super cheap, the revenue you can generate is super high. And then you've got this shared element. So screw looking for the raw land, man. Just I would say find the campgrounds. That's my limited knowledge with this, but based on what you're describing, that seems like to be the route.

Brian Linton 46:28

You're not wrong. I I think I think that the challenge that people have with finding sort of the diamond in the rough campground that is like looking to exit and like not looking for a multiple, like a multiple on their NOI and things like that is is is like what we found was obviously didn't have an NOI. Like, like, I mean, they probably were making they had a few RVs in there that were probably paying $500 a season and it was just not operating, right? And so we bought it really for the the land, the asset value more so than the business value. What happens with a lot of these campgrounds out there is it's hard to justify converting an existing campground, a traditional campground or a RV park into a clamp ground because you're buying it for the revenue. Now, that can still be a good return because if you buy something that has much less revenue and you can you can convert it, it's just like converting a motel, but it does make it a little bit less less appealing when people start to look at raw land development even versus buying the business that you're not even like going to keep the brand or the business, you're getting rid of it all. It just makes it campgrounds out there in COVID, especially, we're trading at high multiples, and a lot of owners of campgrounds are still holding on to this like false value that is not there anymore. So if you go out to the like the campground acquisition market for the things that are actually for sale, frankly, they're overpriced if they're actually operating and they have some type of NOI. So it's hard to find, is what I'm saying. Is is yeah, you get you got to really your your deal sourcing has to be amazing. And you have to do a lot of cold calling, a lot of research to find that property that is gonna trade at a at a value that you can make sense of and not feel like you're overspending.

Michael Russell 48:09

Darn it, man. I thought it was just simple. You just go out there and find a campground.

Nathan St Cyr 48:13

Sounds like the same damn thing that we're in.

Michael Russell 48:17

If it were easy, everyone would do it.

Brian Linton 48:20

Exactly. I mean, the days of going out and buying a rundown boutique hotel, like in 2020 when nobody wanted this stuff. And like, I don't know what it is like right now with boutique hotels, but I was under contract. I almost bought something in the Catskills actually earlier this year or last year, but it was like a shell, right? It was like it was, it was, it was gonna be a massive project. Anyways, like those are the types of opportunities you can still find is like the the really bad ones, but nobody wants nobody wants to, you might as well just build it from scratch at that point.

Michael Russell 48:49

Okay. I want to I want to ask something. Do you have a few more minutes for me to ask a little bit about your marketing? Yeah, go for it. Okay. So you've got over 350,000 followers on Instagram alone. You've got a pretty significant following on YouTube, your videos are crushing it. I mean, your social media following and your marketing strategy is on point. So I I guess I just want to know like, why are people so drawn to what you're doing?

Brian Linton 49:13

Well, I think there there is a romantic, nostalgic aspect of camping and glamping that people, people, people that don't even want to build one of these like to see. Like there's there's just something visual about this business model that people like. I don't think it's that much different than boutique hotels as well, other than the fact that like there's a lot of landowners, there's a lot of people in America, especially. A lot of people just like appreciate the idea that, hey, like you can you can take your land and you can make something out of it really beautiful. And I think that's maybe a very basic, a basic mindset, but we're living a life on social media that a lot of people look at aspirationally. And I think that's what social media is in general. It's it's aspirational as you scroll through things, you try to see yourself in those shoes. And I think, I think finding Promised Land, both the visual aspect of it, but also the personality aspect of the personal brand building has really made people like have affinity towards what we're doing and affinity towards our our business model and our family itself, because we've tried to be, we've tried to be really approachable. Like, like we don't document every aspect of our life, like even like this here, like our private life is actually very different than our and than our than our public sort of finding promised land aspect. What I've seen with with Finding Promised Land is the more we can do on stories and and storytelling, like telling the behind-the-scenes stuff is what people want to see. They don't want to see the finished product, right? They don't want to see the result, or they do on occasion. If you're just talking about where you are and not the journey and what you're working on and how you're getting there, and also the the hardships and the challenges. I think that's what a lot of people that I've spoken to that have decided to franchise with us like resonate with is like they're like, the fact that like you don't that that you talk about like the issue that you got into with the township and your unregulated, your unpermitted showers, outdoor showers that we had, that instead of hiding from that, it's like, no, this is what happened. Here's how, here's how it happened, and then take people along the journey of rectifying it and actually overcoming it is a huge reason why people can resonate with a story like this, is because everybody can see themselves doing something similar. And so that's why Finding Promise Then has worked. It's very, it's very much like this journey. It's not the fit, it's not the end zone, it's it's the process.

Michael Russell 51:25

Yeah. Are you familiar with Brett McManus? We had him on the show a few episodes back. He runs the it's called the investors. And he, similar to what you're saying, he said something along the lines that really struck me, but it was like, it was like document, don't educate, or something of that nature. But basically, just document what you're doing. You don't have to like tell everyone that you're the expert. Just say, hey, look, this is what we're doing, and this is how we're doing it. And that natural storytelling piece really drove. I mean, he's got probably somewhat close to what you have on Instagram as well. And I find it fascinating. I mean, you think about 350,000 people on Instagram alone, just watching what you're doing, but it is also strategic. Like you, I've watched some of your stuff, and there's a skill there. There's a level that not everyone has. I mean, you clearly are applying some lessons that you learn from your apparel business and marketing where you know what's going to create eyeballs to want to watch you. And so you're you're doing a knockout job with that. I just I want to give you credit for that. Is there anything you could give our audience if like if they wanted to focus on marketing that, you know, not having 350,000 followers, like, where could they get started? Like, how could they start attracting people to their page?

Brian Linton 52:35

I mean, I would say without a doubt, like organic social media is the biggest needle mover in marketing and will be for the foreseeable future, just by the way, by how things are and how things are going. I mean, I have like without an exaggeration, generated millions of dollars in bookings alone, like the properties themselves. Like we, we, we, we know for a fact, like when like when I when I'm at a property, people are coming up to me and saying, hey, like we follow you, we're here because like because of that, millions of dollars have come into Promised Land and our business because of that. And then on the flip side, millions of dollars have come into the franchise business as well as a result of that, because every single person, there's not a single person that has ever decided to franchise with us, it didn't find us through social media. That is, that is, that is the only discovery platform that really exists these days that's meaningful and and relatively cheap and free. That being said, I would say that to really get the flywheel goal going, you have to be ruthless and you have to be aggressive and you have to really think about social media more than anything else. Like if that's what your marketing channel is going to be, which it should be, social media is a full-time job. And it's it's not easy. But if you do it and you and you commit to it and you actually put put your effort into it, the return is better than anything else. You can get cheap and lazy and buy billboards and do OTA and spend money on paid ads, or you can do social media and you can do it right and you can see your business blow up in a way that you can never imagine. It's way more significant than anything else out there. So it's worth it if you can wrap your head around that.

Michael Russell 54:07

So, what's your vision for where all this goes five years from now? What does success look like for finding promised land?

Brian Linton 54:13

So, in as short as a in as short as a year, our goal is we'll have 15 of these of firm crests open and opening up by by the beginning of summer 2026, and then within five years, being over a hundred campgrounds out there and keeping a boutique, like I don't want to be again, I've I've used some fast food examples in this episode. And I mentioned McDonald's and like we're not looking to be like thousands of campgrounds all over the place. That's that's an unrealistic sort of view for what boutique hospitality should be. But but being at that hundred mark, a little bit of an arbitrary number, but it's something that I can sort of like use as like a goal, which is like, hey, if there's a hundred campgrounds, ferncrest campgrounds out there, and and notice how I use the word campground as well versus glamp ground, it's because it's a family campground experience. And I want people to feel like there's enough of a network effect out there that they can bounce around, they can travel around like they do with a KOA or a Jelly Stone or any of the other franchise like models that are out there in hospitality. My wife loves Hyatt. She's staying at Hyatt's, right? We want people to feel the same way about Ferncrest and want to travel throughout the country and be able to stay at these properties. So five years, a hundred of them operators that are all making significant life-changing money and a brand that's worth worth uh a significant amount of money because of the network effect and the business that we've built.

Michael Russell 55:36

Well, okay. So a hundred of these bad boys that are doing, let's call it $700,000 in revenue, and you're collecting 7% annual share, right? I think that's what you have on your website, is what the franchise model is.

Brian Linton 55:52

Well, there's some other fees there too, but yeah, 7% is the base.

Michael Russell 55:55

That's a cool $5 million a year in revenue from from that component alone plus $50,000 startup fees. I think you'd be doing all right.

Brian Linton 56:02

Yeah. I mean, it's it's funny. It's it's not it, it's not a business model with with royalties. It's not a business model that's like going to generate like a $100 million of of annual income for for a business, but it's but it's very light, right? It's a royalty model. So you once you get to scale, it's worth a lot because it's it's really it's really just a good cash flow model. But the other thing is we we also sell all the equipment and we sell we sell into all of these properties. So there's a big sort of equipment aspect of this as well, which is not in that revenue number as well. So yeah. But and then lastly, just to give further context to the franchise model is that five billion or whatever that profit of that royalties is. I come from the apparel world where the Ebidal multiples were like four to six, if you're lucky. Franchise is a totally different animal from a valuation standpoint. Franchise revenue and profit is is in the high teens to sometimes even 20 plus, because it's all contractual, long-term contracts. And that's why I like this model for us more so than the owning of all the assets, because the main asset is that brand, and that and that brand can be worth a significant amount because of the franchise model.

Michael Russell 57:14

Yeah. I mean, I could see Marriott saying, well, we've got you've got all these people on our network. It doesn't have to be Marriott, but the point being is as this thing becomes more mainstream, and when I look on your website and I see the product that you're offering, it's not that far-fetched to think that at some point a Marriott type of business will acquire a franchise model like yours because it is nice. It is quality. You've done a nice job of, you know, marketing this, but you're proving your success. And if you can scale that with all these other operators and maintain the quality that you guys are operating under, that's the part I'm a little, I don't know how it works, but that seems like that's a big hurdle to overcome. But if you can maintain that quality, yeah, I think absolutely you could see a huge exit with this franchise model down the road.

Brian Linton 58:01

Yeah, I agree. I think it's there, there's a lot of bridges to Crossdale and we're we're working on it. But I I agree. I think I think the the opportunity is there. We just got to put our heads down and open up a bunch of these. And like you said, the quality has to stay good. The operator is so important. There's so many people that want to do this. We want to find the people that like honestly, it's it's it's a two-way street. It's not just like, hey, people reach out to us and we're like, yeah, like sign on the dotted line. It's it's really it's a deeper level of commitment. It's a marriage in many ways, and it's important that the franchisee and the franchise or are a good fit.

Michael Russell 58:33

Yeah, right on. Nathan, anything before we wrap this up? No, I love it, man. Cool, Brian. Man, this has been great. Very inspiring, man. I'm I'm loving what you're doing. You've got a great product. You clearly care about what you're doing, and I see you achieving your goals here. It's gonna be what it's gonna be fun to watch you continue to progress this thing. So thanks so much for being on the show. Before we hop off, if our listeners want to get in touch with you, if they want to learn about your franchise model, your education program, they want to visit perhaps one of your locations, whether it's one of your camping sites or any of your boutique hotels, where do you want to point them? What direction should uh where should they go to visit you or get in touch with you?

Brian Linton 59:12

Yeah, so the best, the best way to get in touch is Finding Promised Land is our handle on either Instagram or Facebook. If you're a Facebook user, you can DM us through that. We'll we'll make sure we get back to you. Or findingpromised land.com is our is our sort of like website that has a lot of our educational stuff and talks about the franchise model. So finding promised land is the is the best source. If you want to just check out what the property is, see where, see, see, see what it's like. Campferncrest.com is is what we've been talking about. But yeah, definitely send me a DM. Go ahead and follow us on Instagram or Facebook, and we'd love to chat.

Michael Russell 59:45

Sweet. All right. Well, it's been great having you on the show. We are Mike and Nate. He is Brian Litton, and this is another episode of the Hotel Investor Playbook. And we will catch you all again next week. Aloha. Thanks for hanging out with us today. The hotel investor playbook. If you got even one good nugget of wisdom about hotel investing, do us a favor, hit that subscribe button and leave us a five-star review. And hey, if you're feeling extra generous, drop a quick line in the review section. Something like Mike and Nate are the go-to hotel investing guys, or best podcast for anyone looking to crush it in hospitality. Or, you know, whatever feels right. Those little shout-outs go a long way in helping more people find the show. And they pretty much make our day. All right. Appreciate you guys. Catch you next time.