Mindful Spending: The Key to Conscious Consumerism

In this episode of Ordinary People, Hannah and Nayeli discuss the concept of conscious consumerism, emphasizing the importance of making mindful spending choices that align with personal values. They explore corporate social responsibility, highlighting examples of companies that prioritize ethical practices, sustainability, and community support. The conversation also covers the significance of supporting local businesses and making informed purchasing decisions. As the holiday season approaches, they encourage listeners to consider meaningful gift alternatives and the impact of their consumer choices on society and the environment. 

https://goodonyou.eco/
https://www.thinkdirtyapp.com/
https://ethy.co.uk/
https://donegood.co/
https://www.facebook.com/theorangeharp/

#smallbusinesssaturday, #shopsmall

Transcript

Hannah Whisenant (00:00)

Welcome friends and thank you for joining us on Ordinary People with Hannah and Nayeli. I'm Hannah and I'm Nayeli. All right. Welcome back friends. I'm really happy to be back recording today after a little hiatus. Also, I haven't seen you in a few weeks Nayeli. We're usually together several times a week and it just hit me how long it's been. I miss talking to you. I know, I know. It has been a long time, but I think I look younger. Shocking, right?

You do. And I'll be expecting whatever it is you're using to look younger as a Christmas present this year. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Our focus today is going to be on money you're already planning on spending. The current lingo for this is called conscious consumerism, or it could also be called mindful consumerism. Well, that sounds like something I can not pronounce, but I would love to learn about it, especially for us that have already reached our donation limit. And we are going to need to spend a little bit of money out there for our

presence, but we want to make those dollars viable. So let's talk about what is conscious consumerism and it's really a lifestyle. So it's about being mindful of how our spending choices align with our values and intentionally supporting businesses that align with our values. So this is not a crash diet for the holidays. This is more about making small incremental changes in our spending habits.

that make a difference. You know, when you're in the grocery store and you decide to take an extra second or two to read the back of a food label to see if the ingredients are good for you, like apple puree, or if you can't read the ingredients because it's butylated hydroxy whatever, that is a kind of conscious consumerism. It's about making small, mindful changes in your purchasing habits to support the things that align with your values.

So some common values that we look at when we're supporting businesses are supporting small businesses, women and minority owned businesses, companies that prioritize sustainable business practices that are healthy for our planet, companies that make sure that their suppliers are not using child labor or labor trafficking. You may look at companies that align with your humanitarian or political values. Think through

what we already spend our money on. A large part is going to housing, transportation and healthcare. So we're not going to talk about those today, but the next largest part of our spending is on food, clothing, entertainment and gift purchases. So we're going to focus on those areas today and how we can make more mindful decisions with those purchases. Yes. You know, the good news is that

According to the Markenstein and Certos Insights, 70 % of consumers want to know how the brands they support are addressing social and environment issues. And 46 % pay close attention to these efforts when making purchase decisions. But it's still hard, especially accessing the information that we need to make those decisions. And that's where we're going to focus today. In trying to be conscious consumers,

or mindful consumers. Yeah, so I know you did a lot of research, Nayeli, about corporate social responsibility. And how do we know which companies are being socially responsible? Yes. What should we really be looking in these brands that we're going to be buying from? These corporations and brands that are labeled as socially responsible, they do something very important. They self-regulate.

This means that they impose to themselves regulations above the government ones, and it's embroidered in their long-term goals. They include it as a central piece of their stakeholders' reports, and I can give you various examples of what social responsible means from our organizations. The firms are often guided by a concept known as the triple bottom line.

which dictate what a business should be committing to measure its social and environmental impact, sustainability, efforts, and profits. The three P's, that's how normally it's called, includes profit, people, and planet. It means that they are aware of these three factors when they are making their decisions. So they are

usually broken in four categories as a social responsible so they can be environmental, philanthropic, ethical and economic responsible. Some brands of course, and corporations, target one or two or all of them at the same time. So the first one I'm going to talk is the environmental responsibility. Companies that seek to embrace environmental responsibility

can do it in several ways. They can reduce their harmful practices, that means decreasing pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, the use of single-use plastics, their water consumption, or the general waste. Other way they can be environmentally responsible is by regulating their energy consumption. That means increasing their use of renewable, sustainable resources,

on maybe recycle part of their materials. The other, the third way they can be in this group is by offsetting negative environmental impact. That means planting trees, founding research and donating to related causes. We see a lot of this in the airline industry. They are constantly trying to offset this impact on the planet. They're carbon emissions. Yes.

Sometimes when we are buying a ticket, they ask if we want to donate to decrease the impact our own travel is making on the planet. The second category is mean ethical responsible. And this is more about making sure that the brand is operating in a fair and ethical manner. Firms can embrace ethical responsibility in different ways. For example, a business might set its own higher minimum wage.

This means that it's above what is required in their state or in their country, especially when they feel the minimum wage is not a livable wage. Likewise, other business might require that their products, their ingredients, their materials or their component are being obtained in fair trade standards. They are making sure that the products they are using to produce their product is not using slavery.

or child labor or any other way that it's making unethical to produce these goods. The third way is the corporations that are in the category of philanthropy responsibility. We'll see a lot of this because we'll see advertising everywhere about, this company is donating such amount of money or a percentage of their profits on certain product that is going back to the community.

or is going for the environment. And it's also, we have to be aware that this is a marketing strategy. So we have to be very careful on how we support these brands. We have to make sure that they are really fulfilling their commitment. So while many firms donate to charities and nonprofits that are aligned to their missions, there are others that donate to worthy causes that are not directly related.

their business. Others go as far as create their own charitable trust or organization and give back and have a positive impact on society. And the fourth and last one is what we call economic responsibility. So economic responsibility is the practice of a firm backing all of its financial decisions and it's committed to do good. The end goal is in just maximized profit.

but also make sure the business operation positively impact the environment, the people and society. This is especially important for these humongous corporations that are all over the world. We are talking about these corporations that are all over huge budget. Sometimes their financials are bigger than the small country. So whatever decision they make, it will make an impact globally. So when they are...

economic responsible, they mean that they are not putting profit first. They are putting people and society first. And of course they are a business. They have to make some profit. That's part of the equation. So there are many great examples of companies out there that have higher standards for social responsibility. And not just that, they are creating, they are trendsetters in their field of business.

They are moving other companies to do the same or to do better. I would like to, I would love to start with one that I'm pretty sure will be in most of the parents Christmas list or holiday list. And this company is, is, is, is a very famous one. I'm pretty sure any of us has a step on one of these pieces in the middle of the night. So the company is Lego.

It's very well known. It's all around the world. But this one is the only toy company that has been named the World Wildlife Fund Climate Savers Partner because they have made a pledge to reduce its carbon impact and it's committed to sustainability. This commitment extends beyond its partnerships. So in 2030, the Toymaker company plans to use

environmental friendly materials to produce all of its core products and packaging. Just between 2013 and 2014, LEGO shrunk its box size by 14%, saving approximately 7,000 tons of cardboard. This this might sound like a small change, 14 % on the size of a box, but it's a humongous amount of cardboard that has been saved.

Yeah, 7,000 tons is a lot of cardboard. Yes. So the company also recently committed to remove all single-use packaging from their material by 2025, among other initiatives. So they are investing over $165 million into their sustainable materials center. They are researching for new bio-based materials.

So this will impact the industry as at all. Yeah. I hope they do get rid of those small packages of plastic that are inside every box. That would be amazing. I have bought thousands of dollars in Legos over the years. And I constantly would say, why am I not buying more stock in Lego? Because with three kids and all three of my kids loved Lego, we actually still buy the Lego flowers.

And my teenage daughter loves to put the Lego flowers together and give them away as gifts. I just bought the Lego Advent calendar for my nieces for Christmas. So we love Lego, but hearing that they are taking some of their profits and investing in these very important things for the environment for my kids and hopefully future grandkids planet.

and the world that they live in makes me so much happier to, you know, invest in Lego. Yes, patronize them that for sure. So probably also if you have teen kids or young adults, another article that's going to be in your list is clothing and especially jeans. So jeans, if you don't know, is one of the industries that use, they need a lot of water.

for their produce system. It's very demanding on water. And also it's very demanding on labor. Unfortunately, they also had, this industry had a reputation of using slave labor and child labor. But there is a brand that in addition to being one of the most successful fashion branding history has also been pushing for more ethical and sustainable supply chains. And that's Levi.

In 1991, Levi created the Terms of Engagement, which established its global code of conduct regarding its supply chain and set standards for workers' rights, a safe work environment, and an environmentally friendly production process. To maintain its commitment in a changing world, Levi regularly updated its Terms of Engagement.

In 2011, on the 20th anniversary of this cut of conduct, Levi announced its Worker Wellbeing Initiative to implement further programs focused on the health and well-being of the supply chain workers. The Worker Wellbeing Initiative has been spent to 12 countries. In 2016, the brand escalated of the initiative, vowing to spend the program to more than 300,000 workers.

and produced more than 80 % of its products in worker well-being factories by 2025. Levi was named one of the Engage for Goods 2020 Golden Hollow Award winners, the highest honor reserved for socially responsible companies. You know, that makes me think my teenage boys are growing so fast. They're constantly growing out of the clothes. I just bought them a couple months ago and

You know, this is really a simple choice is that when I'm going to buy them a new pair of jeans, I can make a very conscious choice to buy Levi over another pair of jeans that I'm going to purchase anyway. Just making that choice to buy Levi instead of something else. I am making my Christmas list in my head right now of what everybody's getting for Christmas this year. What?

If you get a little bit tired in your Christmas shopping and you need a break and you can maybe want to stop for some ice cream. And I have some recommendations or two. If you want ice cream and coffee, there are two companies that are setting a real good trend in their industry. The first one is Ben and Jerry's. I didn't know about this one. This was actually a surprise for me when I was searching about these companies. But

They established the Ben and Jerry's Foundation in 1985. That's an organization dedicated to support grassroots movement that drives social change. Each year, these foundations award 2.5 million in grants to organizations in Vermont and across the United States. Grant recipients have included the United Workers Association, a human rights group striving to end

poverty and the clean air collision and environmental health and justice organizations based in New York. But if you are not feeling like an ice cream, then I might talk to you about getting you to drink coffee and we'll talk about a Starbucks, not just because it's one of my favorite place to be in. But I will tell you maybe I will disclose what disclosure why is one of my favorites place to be.

But they have one of the highest standards in the industry. In 2015, Starbucks verified that 99 % of its coffee supply chain is ethically sourced. And it seeks to boost that figure to the 100 % through continuous efforts and partnership with local coffee farmers and organizations. The brand bases its approach on coffees and farms' equity practices

one of the coffee industry's first set of ethical sourcing standards created in collaboration with the Conservation International, ensuring that Starbucks can source their products while maintaining a positive social impact. For its work, Starbucks has been named one of the world's most ethical company in 2021 by Ethisphere. And now it's time for my disclaimer. One of the reasons I'm

I'm such a fan of Starbucks is because I saw firsthand their work that they were doing. At the time I was working for an environmental organization in Mexico. And when we arrived to a small town in the Sierra of Chiapas, for those people who doesn't know, these towns are in the middle of the jungle. So they are surrounded by jungle. This gives special conditions that make

the coffee grow on the shadow. So that makes it more tasteful. It's actually delicious, all the coffee in that area. But also that area has been exploded for years. the farmers were not making a fair price for their products. They were being pushed out. So the jungle was being destroyed at the same time. So it was a critical situation what they have there.

So when we arrived as an environmental agency, I saw the logo of a Starbucks in some bands that were parked there. And I was quite surprised because at that moment Starbucks was not operating in Mexico. So I was like, what? They're opening a Starbucks here? then you're like, yes, yes, that didn't make sense at all. So I approached the people in this town and I start asking them, they say, no, these are

This come to try to teach us how to grow a better coffee with high quality, but also preserving the natural environment around it. And not just that, they say they are going to pay for this coffee double or triple the price that other companies are paying for it. So Starbucks has this,

mission, not just to source for the best coffee beans around the world, but support the communities of farmers and make them growth sustainable. love that. Yes. That's amazing. Yes. So we, many times I think we don't look at the supply chain of the companies, but it matters. This big corporation have a power over their suppliers.

They can harass them and they can literally drop their prices to the floor. But in the other hand, there are companies that are doing the opposite. They are trying to build up their sources. They are trying to build up farmers. They are trying to empower them. They are trying to teach them how to do things better for their business. But also in the long run, this company know the more sustainable they are, the better they will do in the future.

So next time you go to this coffee shop or the ice cream shop, look for the small signs that says, we are supporting the farmers in Costa Rica or Ethiopia, or the we do are supporting the farmers in West Virginia. Look for that because that matters is the supply that is going to bring it up. Yeah. And we'll think about that more now that we see those signs, we'll kind of have a picture in our head of what that really looks like. know? Yeah.

So I did some research on buying local and I wanted to talk a little bit about that. You know, we've all heard how supporting small businesses can help, but I wanted to talk about not just small businesses, but local businesses. According to the Small Business Association, 46 % of private sector employees in the U.S. work for small businesses. So that's about 62 million jobs in the U.S.

And according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 55 % of the net new job creation in the U.S. over the last 10 years has been from small businesses. So all of that to say that small businesses are still a very important part of our economy and our communities all over the U.S. I would love if that number were a lot higher, but small businesses are still a huge part of our economy. So American Express started

Small Business Saturday. I'm sure a lot of you have heard of it. I did. They actually used to give you $10 credit to spend in a small business. But I think this year they are changing that and they are doing a $1 donation per purchase that we do on Saturday, especially to help those businesses that were impacted by the recent hurricanes. love that.

So the Saturday after Thanksgiving every year is Small Business Saturday and American Express has put a lot of money into supporting small businesses. They did a small business economic impact study in 2022 that said if every Gen Z and millennial shopper spent $10 at a small business just on Small Business Saturday, it would support

two billion dollars in local economic activity throughout the U.S. Wow, that's amazing. That's a lot of money. Yeah. So think about it. We're not telling you to quit shopping at these big box companies. mean, Naili just went over a great list of some larger companies that are still doing really wonderful things, but you can make

small changes in your shopping habits that can really make a huge difference. So just think about that. If every Gen Z and millennial shoppers spent $10 on just that one day and it would create 2 billion in local economic activity, imagine what small monthly or weekly changes in your spending habits could do. Yes. As many people say, we have to spread the love around.

So it's not like you're going to change your whole buying pattern, but maybe you can buy just one or two things of your list and get it from a small shop. Might be even more convenient. Like how about your plants? You go to a small nursery and you get them from there or you need some bread. Well, go to a small bakery and get it. just heard this morning that a very beloved bakery in our town.

So for a fire last night. I think they will require a lot of love from our community in the next few months after they open. So let's talk about how exactly buying local helps your local economy. So a few ways. Buying local is better for the environment because you need fewer trucks and planes to deliver the goods and services. According to the National Resource Defense Council,

buying local helps reduce pollution, it improves air quality and it improves our health. The American Express study also found that for every single dollar spent at a small business, 68 cents on that dollar stays in your local community and that dollar creates an additional 48 cents in other local business activity.

So when you spend your money locally with small businesses, that money recirculates within your local community. When you're buying locally, there's still going to be some level of money that goes outside of the economy, but more of it stays locally. So another reason why supporting local helps is because locally owned businesses tend to donate to local charities more.

there's also more character in the products that you're buying when they come from local makers and artisans. You're not going to find that exact unique product anywhere else when it's made by a local artist. You know what they say when you're buying local, you're giving a family a way of living. And many times when you are buying in a big corporation or you're giving us a huge raise for a CEO. So we can, we can.

We can take that in consideration and do, as Hannah said, mindful consumption this end of the year. Yeah. Speaking of big corporations, I want to talk a little bit about the money we spend on our food budgets. Food is a major part of our budget for the year. You know, it's up there with housing and transportation and healthcare. Food is one of the largest things we spend our budget on. So there's a lot of power there.

and the choices that we make on our food purchases. So the top five grocers in the United States, Walmart, Kroger, Costco, Albertsons, and Amazon, make up 61 % of the US grocery market share in the US. Five grocery companies. And they're the parent companies of lots of other grocery store chains, but five companies

61 % of the market share. That's a lot. So Kroger in 2022 entered into an agreement to acquire Albertsons. So that's, you know, two of the five largest corporations discussing an acquisition. There's been a lot of opposition to that. The federal trade commission and two states also sued to try to stop it.

Those lawsuits are still going on. haven't completed. So again, a lot of opposition to that. So if those five companies make up 61 % of the market share, sadly, that means only 39 % of the grocery market is going to be your more regional and local grocers. So it does make it very hard anymore to find like a mom and pop grocery store.

A lot of them don't exist anymore. But if you do have a regional or local grocery store, consider supporting them. They're going to rely on local farmers more. And also spending your money with those regional and local grocery stores puts a lot more pressure on the bigger box chains like Walmart to source from local farmers as well. noticed Walmart in the last few years has had a big push internally to try to work with local farmers.

because people were preferring those regional and local grocery stores and farmers, they wanna support their own community. So that puts pressure on the bigger box chains to do the same. So another way you can support your local community with your grocery buying is by buying from local farmers. Local farmers are now online and especially since COVID.

It's easier than ever to sign up for what can, what's called a co-op where, several farmers may come together with a different goods that they offer and you can purchase into it and maybe they deliver it to your door. If you're lucky enough, or maybe they deliver it every Tuesday evening to a central location. You can often choose between, you know, getting a whole variety of.

products or you can just say I'm going to get my milk and eggs and sourdough bread from you know this farmer on a weekly basis but buying from local farmers is easier now than ever and just making a small substitution let's say you still need the convenience of your Costco or your

you know, regular grocery shopping place to get the majority of your needs because you don't have time to visit five different grocery stores in a week. But you can mix it up a little bit and make some mindful purchases through some local farmers. One grocery store I wanted to highlight was Publix is owned entirely by their employees. So even though Publix is a larger brand grocery store,

their employees own the company, they have the shares in the company and purchases at Publix are going back into supporting their employees. Yes, that's amazing. mean, I didn't know that about Publix. I have just one around the corner, so I might be going there more often. But even if the employees do not own the company, it's important also to support those companies that treat very well their employees.

One of them is Costco. I hear that it's hard, super hard to get a job in Costco because nobody quits. Nobody quits. love it. They are paid very fairly. They also get a lot of perks to be part of the Costco family as they consider themselves. And I think that's important because you want to support that businesses that are employing your neighbors, your community, and they are treating them well.

They are treating it above expectations. Yeah. And I love that sometimes I can walk through Costco and get products that are sustainable or they may be labeled products from a woman owned business. So even when you go into some of these big box retailers, they will have partnerships with some smaller brands that you may be wanting to support.

I was also reading you, you mentioned how hard it is to get into Costco. have a Wegmans near us. And I read that it's similar, that it's harder to get a job at Wegmans than it is to get into Harvard because they treat their employees so well, which I thought was really cool. And that's what you want. You want to be supporting brands who are treating your, three P's you talked about, Naila, they were profits, people and planet, right? Yes, that's right. Profit, people and planet. It's a business. They need to make profit.

but they have people working for them. have people that are consumers and they have to care about them and the planet because we all live in here. So, Nayeli, you mentioned Lego and Levi as two great examples of companies that are socially responsible, but how do we know if the other companies we're shopping for this holiday season are also socially responsible? It seems kind of overwhelming.

to do that research on our own. And I know you looked into, you know, how we can get some help with that. Maybe the obvious answer will be read the labels. Many of them use it as a marketing strategy, but it's also a good way to identify them. We will see the labels as like for trade. We will see locally sourced, cruelty free.

that they use the recycle materials and they usually put it in their packaging because they want the consumers to know because they are they are aware that we care about it. So that might be the easiest way. Of course, there is a lot of websites that you can search for brands specifically or you can search for, okay, I want to find the best toy companies or I want to buy, I want to find the best

car companies, depending on where you are buying. But we all live in this cell phone world where we carry our cell phones everywhere. And I was very attracted by this idea of there are a lot of apps, new apps that we can search through. And it's very easy. are in the store. You just scan the barcode with your app and the apps will tell you how

this brand, how this product is in the social responsibility scale. Are they doing good? Are they doing so-so or they are terrible? And maybe we are between two brands. We all need like fabric detergent. We all need to get that. We all need a dish soap. But maybe if the difference in price is not major and we can make a decision there, that's a way to do it.

So there are several, but I would just like to mention a few of them so we can get started on this. We will put the links in our show notes. But one that I like is called Good On You. They rate over 3,000 fashion brands on their impact on people, the planet, and animals. Like many, I know we are all worried about testing on animals, especially for the cosmetic industry.

that they have a bad repetition on these and they let you know immediately. You scan the product and they let you know if they use any of this animal testing. The other one that I like is ETHY. ETHY, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but it spells E-T-H-Y. And they help us find ethical businesses. Like if they use organic products, if they are cruelty free,

if they have all their ethical values in their production. Another one is called Think Dirty. I love the name. That's very catchy. They help us make decisions about the beauty and the healthcare industry, the healthcare products. So it will say if it's clean, if it has harmful ingredients, because that's also part of the social responsibility. Remember the second one was people. So they have to care about what are they giving to their consumers.

And the other one that I found very interesting is a Chrome extension. So when we're looking things in our computer, this Chrome extension will immediately look out for us. So it's called Done Good. This Chrome extension helps you find socially conscious products from brands that aren't well known. You know, this is small brands, this probably they don't have a big marketing budget, so we don't know about them. So.

The beauty of these Chrome extensions is you don't have to do anything. As you shop normally, the extension will offer you alternatives that even are available on Amazon. So you don't have to change your shopping pattern. It will do it automatically. The last one that I want to highlight is one that is called Orange Harp. They receive the

the app store a wire for its design and the approach on helping consumers find good via curation right into the algorithm. So you can choose how this app is going to, the specific parameters that you're looking for. So this app goes beyond the mobile and aims to end slavery with the garment industry. This is a very strong and passionate community.

And they expect to hear more from the team as a competition intensifies for the ethical eyeballs. They are trying to win a prize. So if we can support them, please let's do that. great. So you might be between two brands to buy. So these apps might help you make your decision. Besides the labels, we can do this apps. If you don't find any label, you can use it.

I was downloading some of those apps while you were talking. I'm very excited about that because it does seem like it's harder to get this information without having a resource at your disposal. So thank you very much for giving us that information. Those are really helpful. There are a lot of things we can do with our holiday shopping choices, from supporting local restaurants to local farmers markets and shopping markets.

There's a lot of rounding up campaigns that, you know, we see at this time of the year, those rounding up campaigns brought in $750 million for charities in 2022. You know, every campaign that you see is going to be different. You know, the one at Chipotle is going to be different from the one at Walmart. So make sure that you know what you're rounding up for, but that's another great way to make a really small difference.

Yes, we have to be aware where we're spending our money. Our money is power and we want that money and that power to go for the greater good of our community, our planet and all human beings. Like you mentioned at the beginning, a Hannah, it's all about mindful and conscious consumption. And I want to share something. This year I'm not buying my mom anything because

She has it all, but she really loves one charity that she has whole spirit in her heart. So instead of giving it a gift, I'm going to donate to the charity on her name. I'm going to give her the certificate in an envelope, like with a card. And I think that's a meaningful present, but also I feel good because it's, it's, it's, I don't have any more money to donate in my budget, but

This is a money I had to allocate for her present and it's a two ways present. Yeah, I love that. I personally love experiences. cause I feel like we, we've always had enough stuff and sometimes, you know, the material things is just more things for me to clean up in my house. So I love gifts to go see a local play or a music festival or go see a show or support the arts or, know, just.

Gifts that give my family a reason to get out together and go do something and spend time together, like you said, can be another way to have a more meaningful gift and support local artists at the same time or local restaurants. Yes. So we want to end this episode by reminding everyone that it's a joyful time. It's a great time to share our love with our loved one. We can't really create a force all together for the better good.

and to promote these companies and these brands to do better. And also to support the small and local businesses. Yeah, this has been a great reminder for me because I think life gets really busy sometimes and I default to just convenience, convenience, convenience. What is convenient for me? But this has been a great reminder that there are so many small changes in our purchasing habits that we can make that are going to make a huge difference. And I hope all of you have a

great great holiday season. Yes, happy holidays everybody. We appreciate your time and you you listening and it means a lot to us. So now it's time for our five things that we can all do to be more conscious consumers. Number one, be mindful of your spending. Remember small changes in your spending habits make a big impact. By local. When you got the change

Patronize local businesses. This Small Business Saturday is a great opportunity. Number three. Research the brands you're purchasing from. Especially for big and recurring spending, your money has power and it can be used for the greater good. Round up. A few cents on every transaction can make a big difference. Push your favorite brands to do better. They are looking to earn your business

and you can hold them accountable. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcasting app so you are notified when new episodes drop. You can support our podcast by subscribing on Patreon at patreon.com forward slash ordinary people with Hannah and Nayeli. You can also find us on Instagram at be the change hub and follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn.

All the links to our socials will be in the show notes. Thank you for listening today and being part of this community of change makers.