WFM Career - The Sky is the Limit

What if the secret to a thriving contact centre career wasn’t in your CV, but in your mindset? In this episode of WFM Unfiltered, Irina sits down with Nenad Lukikj, a self-made leader who went from humble beginnings to reshaping the way we think about workforce management, innovation, and personal growth. Nenad’s story isn’t your usual LinkedIn highlight reel—it’s full of real risks, unorthodox choices, and a relentless commitment to doing things differently.

From discovering the hidden potential of command centres to using wild interview techniques that flip hiring on its head, Nenad has made a habit of challenging norms—and winning. But he doesn’t just break the rules. He builds new frameworks for success. Whether it's about leveraging data for CX insights, pushing back on outdated cultural norms, or owning a tech platform without a tech background, he brings a fresh, fearless perspective to every conversation.

This isn’t just career advice. It’s a blueprint for leading with courage, embracing discomfort, and unlocking your own untapped potential. Irina and Nenad dig into the mental models and decisions that shaped his path—and reveal how YOU can use the same strategies to level up in WFM, leadership, and life.

Whether you're in ops, tech, CX, or planning, this is the episode you didn't know you needed. Watch until the end for some of the most actionable, honest advice on career progression and strategic networking you’ll hear this year.

Subscribe for more episodes that challenge the status quo and share real, unfiltered industry truths: https://www.youtube.com/@WFMUnfiltered?sub_confirmation=1

Show Links:

• RightWFM website: www.rightwfm.com
• Email: Irina@rightwfm.com
• Podcast email: WFMUnfiltered@gmail.com
• Podcast Directory: www.wfmunfiltered.buzzsprout.com/share
• YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@WFMUnfiltered?sub_confirmation=1

Transcript

Irina: 0:20

Hi everyone. Welcome to WFM Unfiltered Today, we're going to a lot of places. first of all, we're gonna be. Going to Toronto, but maybe coming from Macedonia through Serbia, through Bulgaria, and finally ending up with, Canada. But, we're having a great guest, one that have achieved so much and I cannot wait to speak with. So Nenad, take me away on your journey.

Nenad: 0:51

Thank you. I'm so happy that I'm here. I'm very stressed and nervous and excited at the same time. I was born in Macedonia. I lived and I was, raised in a Yugoslavia country, 1991. It separated, finished my school there. that was 2007, with a degree in finance and financial analysis. Had some tough and rough start of my career there, I would say, but I learned a lot of what I should not do and what I should actually stick to, which is now what is defining me. I. current kind of scenario where I am, which is like 11 years ago I came to, live in Canada, in GTA Toronto area currently working for one of the largest North American banks, TD Bank. my badge. Thank you for the food. And I'm working. I started 11 years ago. I started my career, basically from the bottom. one of the vice presidents here that I very much appreciate and I love his brain. he cares. He, is always usually having that shirt saying, started from the bottom. So I actually started from the bottom, started from a contact center, which was taking calls for business in the business area. Was growing in the contact center at that time in Rogers communications. was growing in several roles. up in like escalations, retentions, business management office. And, something was missing.

Irina: 2:30

something

Nenad: 2:31

was. How do I say? My brain was not fully occupied. My brain was like eager to be, More like more absorbed. And I was like thinking of oh, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? And one day walking through the workforce area, I saw the command center. And in Rogers that was like a super big show of TVs and more like CIA FBI command center with like 10 to 12 analysts sitting at the desk coordinating about six thousand, you know, agents. I was like, this is exciting. I wanna learn here. And what I've done is, something that would be probably interesting for everybody, try. I was going on the calls, taking calls, and then free time volunteering. I. The night shift for workforce. I said, I was just gonna come and sit with you and do some stuff for you. Because we were one company, the same company. So about like 3, 2, 2 or three months later, a job opening shows up and I was like, I'm ready. I've been there for two, three months. and I had the most amazing interview with my, at that time, hiring manager who actually, Gave me a laptop and said, analyze this data. And I was like, analyze what? what the hell are you talking about? And in the moment where I wanted to start talking, turned off the lights on me. So my reaction was like, what the f? And he turned on the lights saying You passed the test. Because he was like, I need somebody in the command center who understands what. Is, reacts to not normal stuff has the natural reaction of what the f is that right. And, takes action after that to address or, you're not lethargic to move on. So that was amazing interview that opened my mind of oh my God, I'm going in an area where I will have to think on dozen like 30 things at the same time. So started my career in command center in Rogers. Been there for, about three years. in the second half of that, portion. I expanded more in short-term planning, which is like weekly planning and whatnot, and a little bit more of like vendor management. And then, Got the opportunity to come and work for one of the largest bank in North America, as a long-term forecaster. I took on a heavy bite, which was US Markets and all what I ride, I had there the best years of my career. it in the US contact Center, for TD Bank such an amazing leadership and, people that, that will hear any crazy idea and creative idea. And I was hungry and I was full of ideas kind of thing. I will tell you more about that experience. And then, after the forecasting where I had such a great success, I went to my original new hire that turned off the lights for. me By the way, this is something that is really, in North America. You have like mentors and they're more like your friends, but mentors and doesn't need to be higher on the ladder, than you, but kind like your network area where you're sa safe to mentor and to basically anything and everything. And anyways, long story short, I went to him and I said like, how do I climb up if my base is small? how do I tackle that pyramid? And he is said it. If you want to climb up, you gotta increase your base, right? I was like, shit, fuck. I didn't want to hear that, but I was like, okay, challenge accepted. I always love a challenge. So I was like, challenge. So I kinda expanded my mandate into workforce, but more of a customer experience site. LEI, NPS, JD Power, Ipsos more of a benchmarking. What does it mean to have like good customer experience? what does customer experience actually mean right? In that sense. And I was there for about a year and a half. I had tremendous, super, nice experience with Amazing Boss at that time. I continued on expanding, so next I expanded into the area of workforce again, but more of a cost efficiency productivity where I learned. Here's a interesting idea for the audience where I learned that zero point, I should not probably see the right numbers, but very, tiny portion of my customer base was creating one quarter of my annual expenses. when you deep dive into it, you have like customers calling and say, what's my account? Wow, what's my balance? And then hangs up and then calls five minutes later, what's my balance? He hangs up and then five minutes. So I've learned into the area where you have to also, absorb different customer behavior that sometimes it's not appropriate, but it's, people have some disabilities, mental, physical, whatever. So you have to observe. So I'll learn and grow in the area of what is your business moment to understand what I can change. and what I have to accept, right? and lastly, about 9 months ago, I got a most interesting role that I have right now, which is workforce product owner for entire North America. I own the, platforms for workforce. I'm not gonna mention names just so I can be more generic, but I host the productivity platform, the w fm platform, that goes with it. the long term forecasting platform, some internal stuff as well, recording platforms and so forth, In a nutshell where I am currently working on my quarterly Q4 planning

Irina: 8:34

Thank you so much for introducing yourself. I, find myself unexpectedly very emotional and tear up, so we'll see. We might end up having to. Oh, sorry. I think we might have to edit this part out because you mentioned something that, I don't know, it resonates so much for me and I see it every day with different people, like starting from the bottom. And I think you can also appreciate, like for people coming from, Eastern Europe, sometimes it's so much more difficult to break into. Like bigger organizations, especially in Western Europe. So when I hear about that journey, it's yeah, you don't have the same opinion. you are right and it's emotional journey. I agree. And trust me, I come from similar area that you come from and we are emotional and we and I know sometimes to sit down and have a moment of what the hell just happened for the past 11 years? But I must say that one thing is that you are, you're gonna, you're gonna get a chance to get somewhere,

Nenad: 9:44

That's one thing. You get a chance, you somebody put some trust in you. You go and you do. That's one thing. The second thing is us as Eastern Europeans to flex to the Western behavior. To the behavior of does mentorship actually mean? What does it mean when you talk to a higher up? What does it mean to bring a flavor that is different yet acceptable? here I'm gonna tell you an example. And by the way, I've gone through a lot of experiences where people from this side of the world says, you are insane what you just said. You are on. I would never say that.

Irina: 10:31

Yep.

Nenad: 10:31

I go on a call, I go on a call, on the call, I have the head of us, I have the CFO and my boss, and I'm about to get ripped for, like some discrepancy in the finances. But one thing that is for all our Eastern Europeans, and by the way, there's a study I'll tell you about the study later, but the Eastern Europeans, we are so detailed oriented that even if they asked us something of oh, I'm gonna catch you now, I think the school system was back then. That way it is like, the teacher wanted to catch you and put a one for you just so you can fail,

Irina: 11:10

Yeah.

Nenad: 11:11

ready to answer everything right. And I, get on a call and politically in this environment, I can't say what's changed. I can be an analyst of ah, you know what changed? have to be up. And so I said, this. I said, everything is fine with the finances. By end of the year, you will end up in a environment financially, If that's not, if that doesn't happen, I'm gonna fire myself in front of all of your employees. And my boss is are you insane? I was like, I'm gonna fire myself in September. If the finances are not there in front of everybody, I'll just quit. The interesting part was that the other side said, deal. That's your journey. You put a commitment for yourself, you put a target for yourself. Rather than chasing your boss's targets, you put something for yourself to cha for yourself to chase. Right? And, I hate it. it was well, so I'm still employed, We at some point finding and, and, have those kind of courage to say, sure it's on me. If something happens, us fails, it's on me. And, At the end of the day, again, experience on that side, but a lot of learning learn how to speak with these guys here to learn how, what it means to take ownership, to learn how, you can still bring that super flavor from Eastern Europe, but at the same time remove some of the. Some of the triggers bad experiences we've gone through back home and we know what we've gone through and put it on the side as like a learned am outside rather than reliving same thing again and again

Irina: 13:05

thank you for sharing this journey, and I would say that on daily basis I'm receiving messages from people, not only from Eastern Europe, from asia, like India, Philippines, and what have you. and people are saying, okay, but how can I break through? what can I do? And I think you summed it up great, that sometimes we're putting. the barrier for ourselves, we are thinking, we can do it because let's say whether we're talking about Western Europe, us, we are somehow summarizing it as unachievable and it is the peak. And who are we to dream big, right?

Nenad: 13:46

are we to dream big is the right question.

Irina: 13:49

Yeah. And I know that many people probably are not gonna relate, but probably even more are gonna resonate with this message that you should aim big and dream big. And we're all people. And if you have the skills, you have the knowledge, you have the passion, pursue it like. My best friends are now from, Britain and I, when I started my journey, I was thinking, oh, you know what? British people hate Bulgarians because on the news here, we were constantly being told they hate us. Want to speak with the UK guys because I was like, they're gonna hate me. That's what I've been told. And now you see that some of the things that we put in our heads as bias, it's not how it is in reality. So thank you much, so much for sharing that journey. I know that you have put some topics for me that you wanted to discuss, but I wanna, take you to this journey. How, can we become successful? starting from the bottom, where is the end? Where is the top?

Nenad: 14:56

I wanna say this publicly, and I want it to be recorded because it's something that I've personally lived through, right? Not sure if everybody in a lifetime will have similar experience. We usually think that, we are unique and only this happens to me, but it's actually, we are similar journeys and we go through the life with similar opportunity, similar challenges, right? it was, 20, 22, 2011 or 12, where I was like projecting. I was like, mind has so much to offer and I just, there is no place to give this. And, I was projecting and I was basically, walking through the Google Maps I applied for the documents and I was just for 40 years. But I, walking through the streets of Toronto, I was like alone by myself. I was like, currently, and I can show you, I've shown you, but I work in the, of the largest financial centers. But I was dreaming to be there. I was ho not asking God or whatever, but my butterflies in, in, in myself. They, were awakened from the dream of to be there. One day when it happened, I almost cried. I was like, I can't. So I went back to my wife. I was like, yo, remember when I told you I was dreaming about that? I actually got the job. So similarly, I did not stop dreaming. when I, was in the contact center, was dreaming to make something different. So what I've done is I took the time and simultaneously I learned a lot of Excel. I. I can tell you it's not the Excel from Eastern Europe. A lot of Excel like quoting a lot of automated tools and stuff. I spend the time, and then I built some tools for certain areas of that business, I'm sure they're still using it, but I take the gratification of I dreamt for I was dreaming for a task. I was dreaming to work. when I was arriving into the west side of that location, because it had four sides, I was arriving from the west side, the entire plateau of the business was like first floor. And then there was one tip like, and underneath would say something like, You are, your, the soul break in life is your own brain and your own thoughts kind of thing. And then underneath would like Wayne Gretzky saying, you'll miss all the shots that you don't take. And I was like, I. One day I want to go on the staircase. And that's the big bosses there. And basically a couple of months before I left that organization, I was being called upstairs. So I'm walking the staircase and I was like, what the, what is happening? dream is coming, right? But what I'm trying to say is put a goal for yourself. That is unbelievable. Similar to Jim Carrey, write yourself a check of$10 million. Put yourself a goal. That is unbelievable, even though you're in Eastern Europe or you're somewhere else, you are in the uk, you are in Asia. Doesn't matter. Find the butterflies the butterflies are. That's your life. It doesn't matter when. When they ask you, oh, what do you wanna do when you grow up? It doesn't matter. Find your butterflies. If your butterflies starts flying. For that thing, for workforce, for finance, for driving a, be eraser. Whatever the case might be. Follow the butterflies, right? And then 2019, I met a person in that organization and I said, so he is oh, like, the, those kind of a men talk of you're the big boss now. And I was like, 12 years I'm gonna be a vice president. And then everybody started laughing. It's a crazy goal. It's insane goal. And I acknowledge it's insane goal. But even right now, saying it to you, are my butterflies still are there? It's gonna happen today. No. Maybe in 10 years. Sure. We'll see. Maybe in 20. I'm getting there. My, that's my journey. That's my butterflies. And specifically in the area of workforce. Now, when you see your journey, never linear. That's why set up a goal that is far away. But you gotta go zigzag. You've gotta go towards that goal, but you gotta go and collect knowledge on the way. This is very interesting because nobody can become a director. Like back home. They beca back home in, in Macedonia. You have like directors that is like first time experience. They've never worked before. First time experience director, here in this society. You have to have a large base, right? Because when you go up, you have manage such a large structure. My company has 100,000 employees It's such a massive structure. It's unbelievable. if somebody listens to me from Macedonia, they will be like, that's, three cities, right? But here it's normal. A lot of people, a lot of big structure. And if you want to go up, you better know a lot right from the foundation. So don't aim the next step. Don't aim the next step. Set yourself a goal. And I say this is just say, set yourself like. How do I see Anad the day of retirement? what would make me happy to sign the retirement papers and say I did it. And, yeah, that's the goal. That's the butterfly. That's my way. Again, it's not, probably not the right way, but this is the way I follow and it's been serving me well.

Irina: 21:05

I, think this is exactly the right way because what I really like in your explanations, and especially if I bring you back to the. Operational part of going, during the late shifts and sitting next to the WFM team is create opportunities. And I think that a lot of people are just doing their tasks and are anticipating, when am I gonna get promoted because I do my job so well. many people do their jobs very well, but that's not necessary to be promoted to the next step because of that. It's that extra thing that you're doing on top and collecting that, knowledge, collecting these skills, I. R essentially was driving you forward and upward, and I really liked that you said that the, path is not like linear. Like you don't go this way. You and I think many people were actually discouraged. Even I was discouraged in the beginning of my career because I was. Expecting the ladder right to be that linear. And then I realized that, oh, if I go sideways and then I collect that knowledge, so I'm bringing something more to the table so then I can go there. And this is such great advice. But I wanna ask you from starting from the bottom, how do we go with the sit on the table? Then how do we earn that?

Nenad: 22:29

I don't have the secret sauce of yeah, you mix one, two, and three and you become, you get the seed at the table. It's a lot of, I would say a lot of, hard work. I have a friend, actually right now, we are probably closest friends I would say. and I was like, aggravated new to Canada and saying not getting the chance. What is this? And then he's currently chief operating officer and he says, You have a line on the chart, right on the chart, x y, you have a line that is the opportunities, and then you have a line of getting yourself ready. Yourself, be prepared to accept that opportunity with knowledge and so forth. You don't need to know a hundred percent of your next job. But you have to know at least 70% you have to have some foundation. Nobody wants to invest in, in an empty space. Put foundations. So as he's as soon as those touch, they will accept you. There's no other way. And this is very interesting because I learned that the hard work. That is precisely pressured in the right area will earn you the fastest seat at the table. So let me explain it again. I'm known here to be very, unusual, right? For example, everybody gets on a call, somebody's working from home at the desk. Somebody is working in the office at the desk, by the way, on the call, I'm talking like, the higher he of the highest folks, let's say from the organization, from workforce, vice presidents, SVPs, and so forth. So one person comes up like that, another person comes out from the office, I show up on a bike, I'm biking. Behind me is the sky. I'm biking with a helmet on. I'm talking, is it a risky move? Sure, if you end up on somebody, yeah, it's a risky move, but am I ready to answer all the questions and is my job done? Yes, my job is done and I'm ready to answer all the questions. But that way you become unique because then I say, how do I. How do I add on top of my job responsibilities? A flavour of... of let's all be healthy. Let's all be, let's all spend some time focusing on us, right? While some of my other colleagues that were more of sitting 15 hours in front of the Excel and punching two plus two is four, four eight, and just looking at the demand, AHT forecast is not accurate. I forgot about that piece and I said, I'm just gonna have, so I'm gonna spend 70 to 80% of my day, talking with people, talking with executives, talking with my of people, like at that time, talking with even lower levels, booking coffee chats with agents, booking coffee chats with, team managers and just I would go on a trail and I would like jog. how are you? Yeah. Okay. Tell me about your job. And I would learn and collect and collect knowledge, but you have to know, there's a lot of noise and complaints. So you remove the noise, it's the raw thing that you have to do. And then at the end, I would come home whatever, home, and then I would sit down and punch the numbers. My job is done. Slowly, you sit on the table because you understand how you can maneuver from being in the weeds with the agents, and then in the next meeting you skyrocket on top with the head of the country on strategy next year or the year after that. But then you take the flavor of the agent, you create a capability and you roll it into the structure for next year, right? And on the table you become beneficial on the table. You're not a complainer anymore, that this doesn't work the table, you are like, let me solve it for you. I have a strategy. This is your plan as a head of the country, just gonna, stick a couple of stickers around, right? So earning the seat at the table, you have to be unique. like for example, if I say this, I think the person who's gonna, who's gonna hear his name, it's gonna be very surprised. But one of my workforce idols is Doug Casterton I can't say the last name, man. Casterton, ton. Sorry Doug. But why is he unique? Because he creates something on WhatsApp and then we move to telegram. Which is like a worldwide WFM group where we socialize, where we all talk about different things and I was one of his admins and we connected. His brain is unbelievable. He doesn't see that the Excel and just oh one plus one is two, but he spends the time bringing value around the area of the workforce world, right? I think it's very important to have that mindset. Sitting at the desk will not earn you another desk. you gotta get up from that. Metaphorically speaking..

Irina: 28:04

I, I would sum it up in this way. First of all, I always advocate for everyone to be their most authentic self. Because when you're not, it definitely show, if you're copy pasting someone else's approach, but that's not you, it's not gonna work for you. So I'm always saying, be your most authentic self, and. I, I'm such a big advocate of creating relationships and I talk about it all the freaking time, and I'm so happy to hear that coming from you that you're spending that much time creating relationship because this is how you're also getting, I. The input from people. This is how we understand, their issues or how things can be better, even stuff that we tend to not see if we're working from our little box and we're only seeing what's in front of us. So this is what can separate you from everyone else that's doing exactly that. It's. Putting yourself there on the battlefield, collecting all of that information and ammunition, and then going and presenting, Hey, this is what we can do to solve the challenge. Thank you so much for this conversation. I really wanna wrap it here because for me it's so great that you brought that fire and passion and energy, and as I mentioned, I'm getting so many messages, like, how can I advance my career? And I'm so, happy that you set the, basically Sky is the limit, right? That there are endless opportunities and you're bringing that to this conversation. So we just need to. Continue, WhatsApping for our next, for our next recording. Make it Happen. Now that we know it's thank you so much for this conversation. Oh, one last thing. Wait, hold on. How find

Nenad: 29:51

What up?

Irina: 29:53

you tell me how can people find, how can people find you? Where?

Nenad: 29:57

Okay, then I'm not gonna stop here.

Irina: 30:01

there we go.

Nenad: 30:03

how can people find me? when I was in the, when I was working, when I moved from workforce, I. Actually that time when I moved from like long-term planning over to customer experience, I had to be a lot of, roles were a lot of innovative roles. You have to innovate, have to find the cost efficiencies, where's the gaps and so forth. I was reading a lot about like alpha waves, better waves of dreaming delta waves when you're sleeping and whatnot. And it says You are in a, certain state when you're sleeping, but then there is a in between while you're waking up and then you are totally wake up, right? So usually we take our phones immediately in the morning and you cut middle phase, which is the most creative phase that you can extract. I usually what I do is, and it's weird, but I don't care. I do it. it's, I wake up, but I don't open my eyes. I think of work, I think of my ti tasks. I think of, oh, how can I do this?

Irina: 31:09

Oh.

Nenad: 31:09

And it gives you creativity. But very important is whatever you think of that moment, you open your eyes, put it on a paper, document it, because otherwise it flies off. So while I was doing that research, how to get better and better, There was a lot of notes and a lot of researches about social media, so I'm happy to announce that I've been off social media for about three years now. No Facebook, no WhatsApp. Oh, sorry. No, no Instagram, no TikTok, no scrolling. But I, remained on LinkedIn, so if you wanna find me, you can find me on LinkedIn at any time. We talk about professional stuff and it doesn't really consume that much amount of time from my creativity, but, stay away from social media.

Irina: 31:55

That's a good good way to end it. I'll give you shit because I've been inviting you on this podcast for so long, and you being on LinkedIn is kinda relative,

Nenad: 32:12

Thank.

Irina: 32:12

and stay tuned for part two. Thank you so much. Have a lovely day.