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Starting Standup in Maine with David Walton
This is an audio journal of actor, David Walton (Fired Up, New Girl, About a Boy, Bad Moms, Power:Ghost) as he builds a standup comedy set in public with the help of comedians and friends. New episodes every Thursday.
Starting Standup in Maine with David Walton
#28 Kevin Christy Interview
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Kevin Christy is not only a world class stand up comedian but he is also more interesting than the Dos Equis man. Imagine if the Dos Equis man loved snow globes, stickers, and Disneyland and hated beer. Then listen to this interview.
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Meeting Kevin Christie
Speaker 1uh, this is the most I. I'm gonna say it right now. This is episode 28. This is the most special episode for me because I am interviewing the man who and I even had a unpopped popcorn kernel of this idea of doing a show about my efforts to become good at stand-up. This man was such wind in my sails and after this interview, I realized that this may be one of the longest pranks of all time. I think this sick fuck knew what I was getting into and was just sending me down a river of pain.
Speaker 1I love Kevin Christie. You're about to learn about Kevin Christie and it makes me more happy than I think. Even don't tell my children this, but like it rivals their birth, because there's so few people who know about this man who I find to have one of the most fascinating brains of all time, and he just happens to be the favorite stand-up of so many of the most famous stand-up comedians in the world. He also is a pillar of the comedy seller uh, the company store, sorry in out in los angeles. He's been doing stand-up for 20 years. He's toured for people like Whitney Cummings and Marc Marons. We met in 2008 on a show which you're going to hear about my friend Kevin Christie for the next hour and 45 minutes is going to blow your hair clean back, please enjoy.
Speaker 1For those that have been listening, this is episode 28. So, yeah, thanks. Thanks for listening, kevin. You're the reason I'm doing this podcast. You gave me the wind in the sails, and everyone knows this. You were lying to me, knows this. You were lying to me, or are you? And al were lying to me about what? About whether this would be a worthwhile endeavor? It's not worthwhile, no. So, kevin, christie and I let's start, because the name of the podcast is starting. Stand up, yeah, and I would like to start with our start. Okay. So, kevin, by the way, would you mind, before we even start with our start?
Speaker 2just, do you mind bragging? I'm shit at it, but I can try Please brag to me.
Speaker 1Pretend that I've got a gun to your head and you just have to brag about yourself. Okay, okay. So you're 20 years in, I'm 20 years into stand-up, right, and you are a pillar at the comedy store. I wouldn't say a pillar.
Speaker 2I'm one of the support beams.
Speaker 1Okay.
Speaker 2But yeah, I started at the comedy store. I've been a regular at the comedy store for like 17 years and you've toured with who Mark comedy store for like 17 years and you've toured with who?
Speaker 1uh, mark maron, bobby lee, uh, whitney cummings. Mostly you and whitney are, are you?
Speaker 2my sense from watching you at the comedy store is that every incredibly famous comedian likes talking to you and likes hanging out with you I, I if I'm, I'm relatively well-liked, I guess, if I very successful, hilarious comedians like me and respect me, that's kind of the best I can give you as far as a brag.
Speaker 1Okay, so last time I was with you and the people who. Anyone who's listened to all these episodes knows that I had a disastrous open mic at the comedy store where I told one joke at the top about German shitting and then proceeded to just talk about shitting. And then in hindsight I realized that I think you had punked me because you told me to just talk about shitting. And then in hindsight I realized that I think you had punked me because you told me that to to just talk about shitting.
Speaker 2Well, here's the truth. When someone's like I'm going to do the open mic of the comedy store for the first time, I only want to make sure it's hard on them, because that's what you deserve and it is I. There is a you're, you're from, you know a part of the world where males like to haze each other.
Speaker 1Yeah, you grew up in that environment.
Speaker 2Yes, yes, there is a certain amount of, especially. I wouldn't do this to like a female comedian. But when a guy's like, hey, I want to do the open mic at the comedy store, I'm like, oh, let me help.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2Like, for instance, max Greenfield. Actor Max Greenfield From New Girl Years and years ago wanted to do stand-up at the open mic.
Speaker 1And you're good buddies with him, yeah and I said, oh, I'll help you.
Speaker 2And so I got him a spot. I was like, hey, you're going to put my friend up. And there was a comic named Mack Lindsey who at the time he was just a real aggressive, angry, screaming type of guy. Would you do this bit about having to fillet Jesus Christ and just slam his face against the microphone as hard as he could, While being like saying how profane is your podcast?
Speaker 1Very.
Speaker 2He would just yell suck the cock of Christ and slam the mic into his mouth and go yell and I go. And I made sure that Mac went before Max and I said, mac, my friend max is going after you. He's never done stand-up before. I want you to just go up there and have as much fun as you possibly can and then max. Similar to you, had one bit about buying khakis at the gap and bombed just as hard.
Speaker 1Yeah, good and that is all design. That's a beautiful hazing ritual.
Speaker 2Well, I mean no one should do well their first time. Like my first time in the comedy store with the open mic, I did like okay and the next night I bombed my nuts off. Yeah, like pure silence for three straight minutes, and it's a part of learning to do stand-up that is absolutely crucial.
Speaker 1Yes, you have to bomb, yes, you have to bomb a hundred times.
Speaker 2A hundred times At least, because if you don't, you don't know how to just stand there and believe in your jokes and be a person.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2You'll be too rattled. I don't think there are many hard and fast rules about stand-up, but I know a crowd does not like to see a comedian look desperate and scared unless that's their whole trip. But if they're like, hey, I'm a normal comedian and all of a sudden you see the fear in their eyes you are fucked, You're fucked, it's a wrap on you.
Speaker 1I just had that happen to me. And I went up 10 seconds. The Portland Press-Herald did a piece on me. I was like the front page of the Sunday audience and they invited them to the show and I did this thing about my dad and I just lost it and I was terrified.
Speaker 2And it was really humiliating. But I think it was actually good for what I I'm doing, which is basically trying to get I mean, the truth is stand up for most of the so I've been doing it 20 years. I'd say the first seven years were only humiliating. First seven I was shitty at it. Yeah, you don't get good for it's just. You don't have enough joke density to be good, yeah, and you don't have enough joke density to be good, yeah, and you don't have. You haven't worked out necessarily your presence standing there. So you mostly aren't that great and it's pretty humiliating because it's all you. You're just like these are my ideas and the crowd's like, well, they're garbage, yeah, and then you eat shit.
Speaker 1Okay, so we're going to get it. We're going to put a pin in this right here, because I love it.
Speaker 2But we have to go back to our start because people want to know. We met on a sparsely watched web series that premiered on NBC, mostly because there was a giant strike.
Speaker 1Now what I find interesting.
The Art of Bombing in Comedy
Speaker 2I know I lived in an apartment, so that was before 2000.
Speaker 1And you played kind of an odd duck and I like yeah, contrast to my normal casting, I played a dork.
Speaker 2They really took a leap over there. You're gonna see a picture of kevin you.
Speaker 1You recognize him from how many, what would you say? The number of commercials that you've been in in your life?
Speaker 2I don't really count anymore, but I know it's over 90 you've been in over 90 commercials. Yeah, uh, your income streams are stand-up commercials stand-up commercials, uh, fine art and some commercial artwork and some acting. Yeah, you, I were in some writing.
Speaker 1I have invaded, uh, kevin personal space and I'm currently in his studio and there's beautiful art.
Speaker 2The studio is French for garage. Is that, this is a garage. One of the greatest Simpsons jokes ever. He goes, ooh, garage. You speak French, he goes. What do you call it? He goes car hole.
Speaker 1A car hole. What I found when I was driving over here. I was like I was thinking about our first moments together in life and we were play these best friends on the show quarter life. And then you started dating this girl named mahondra delfino as a character, our characters started dating on the show and then I was playing this guy named danny, yeah, and I I got with her. She was pretty slutty on the show, right, didn't she tear through like three dudes? No, no, no, just you, no no, no, no she.
Speaker 2We went on like a date, I think, on the show and then she was like he's realized I was weird. I don't know who she dated after that she dated me. Dude, your characters yeah, we started dating now and then you got really upset at me that was when we shot it in that room in vegas and it was a complete shit show yes, so what?
Speaker 2are you borderline? Started directing the episode. I remember this vividly where you were, like I don't know, maybe we should start over there and turn the camera around there was was like great, it was weird.
Speaker 1I just sometimes think people say, how did you and your wife meet? And I'm like I had to make out with her on a TV show.
Speaker 2And then I never stopped. It was pretty cute.
Speaker 1It was cute. But sometimes I look at my kids now I'm like you only exist because of quarter life. Yeah.
Speaker 2It's beautiful.
Speaker 1it's oddly beautiful, yeah so kevin and my wife adores kevin, I'm a huge fan of your wife.
Speaker 2I would give anything if you guys would move back I, I feel, it, I, I.
Speaker 1When I come back to la, it feels like home in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2Well, all the people I love, since la completely burned, there's kind of a new. You know I live in LA so I will use the word vibe as often as I want and I'm from here, but there's been what the kids would call a vibe shift, what's the vibe shift.
Speaker 2I just think people realize that LA is a gnarly place. It is gnarly and it's not for everyone. So a lot of people are like I can't take this. And then those of us that are staying, who are lifers, are just like yeah, man, this is where we live, this is the vibe. Yes, it's gnarly, we've accepted it and you can't get rid of us because we're dirt merchants. So just let us be and like I think it's kind of like yeah, this place is for weird gutter people, weirdos, and it kind of. I was watching this documentary called the west uh-huh that ken burns produced for oh, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful and they're talking about like one of the first missions I think it was san juan capistrano, maybe I.
Speaker 2Maybe we're saying no, the san gabriel mission is near here and they were like, just over the hill from the San Gabriel mission, a new towns. A new town sprouted up that was known for men who like to gamble, chase women and were generally unruly. It was called Los Angeles and you're like, yeah, dude, it's a, it is a dirty place.
Speaker 2Dirty Full of dirty people, and that's the way it's always been. It's going to stay that way. Any place where you can get rich quick is always going to attract a certain kind of human. Now there's those of us that aren't like that, but we're also really comfortable around total weirdos.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2So I think, in wake of this, basically a huge swath of the city burning to the ground, the people that aren't scared of kind of life getting that terrifying are who's left and it's kind of a vibe.
Speaker 1And that's a good vibe, honestly, because you're just like we're all in it together now.
Speaker 2This is there's a more, there's a. It's surprising there's more of a community sensibility. Now a little bit beautiful and I kind of I love it. I mean, I'm a big, I love la, I'm an la proponent, I love it. Yeah, you were born and raised.
Speaker 1I'm born and raised here, this is where I live and that's rare. When I came out as an East coaster, I was like who the fuck is? Born and raised here? And you were like my first person and and I it's hard to know what a listener is going to get off of you, because Kevin is like one of the most interesting people in the world because he's got so many different interests. You know, I would say, the coolest elements of like popular culture, like you're kind of a is there a term for what you are as like a cultural I mean, I am like a culture vulture yes I'm just obsessed.
Speaker 2I'm obsessed with culture. I'm obsessed with subcultures. I just want to know about any. I grew up in a very boring suburb and I think it made me want to find interesting shit culturally anywhere I can. So what are you?
Speaker 1take me through what you're into, that is, I know you're into fucking snow globes, not fucking them, sorry. Yeah, snow. Well, you collect snow globes if the snow globe is wet enough, I'll fuck a snow globe. I'll fuck it in its mouth.
Speaker 2I'll tell you one snow globe story. So I bought at Disneyland a really fancy Haunted Mansion. Snow globe music box. Okay, it was 70 bucks. This is like 20 years ago. I used to have an annual pass. I went all the time.
Speaker 1He's wearing a Disneyland sweatshirt right now. I am, I love, I love look, I'm a Disney adult.
Speaker 2If you have a problem with that, you can suck my Mickey cock. How about that? So I buy this Haunted Mansion music box. I take it out of the box, I just put it on a shelf. I have it for about three weeks. One night, at 4 am, it just starts playing by itself, dog.
Speaker 1It's terrifying.
Kevin's Path to Stand-Up
Speaker 2Terrifying, Terrifying. I wake up, I hear it, I take it, I pick it up, I throw it away immediately. But then I think to myself, if they did that on purpose, if they just had like the, you know they were like if they told the employees hey, when you sell one of these, just randomly wind it and give it back to the customer, It'll play when they don't expect it, in two weeks they'll think it's haunted. It's one of the more brilliant pieces of marketing. It scared the shit out of me Middle of the night Dude, it was 4 am. The woman I was with at the time. We both woke up and I was like what do I do? She goes throw it away. I threw it away immediately.
Speaker 1Gonzo.
Speaker 2Never seen again.
Speaker 1Never to be seen again oh my gosh.
Speaker 2I only buy snow globes that aren't Unhaunted.
Speaker 1Yeah, so not possessed by a sinister energy.
Speaker 2For real.
Speaker 1So what other things are you into? These days, the main thing I'm into is stickers, stickers, I collect. How many stickers do you have? Thousands, what about stickers do you like?
Speaker 2Well, I mainly collect old skateboard stickers from when I was a kid, like 80s skateboard stickers. They're all the stickers I wanted as a youth and didn't have so you're honoring your inner child they're also what made me want to like learn how to draw yeah, and he's in it.
Speaker 1By the way you're, he's an incredible drawer, uh painter, that his art is super cool. You sold how many pieces, would you say, in your life? I don't know A lot, a lot, yeah.
Speaker 2I'm lucky in that my art sometimes finds a pretty decent audience Amazing. Okay. So my main hobby is collecting vintage stickers. What would you pay for a sticker? The most I've paid for a sticker is $200.
Speaker 1That's the title of your memoir.
Speaker 2Yes, Now here's the thing it's a giant sticker and it's a masterpiece, really. Okay, see that deck on the wall with the clock. Yeah, it's a Klaus Grabke deck. Yeah, they for some reason in the 80s made stickers that were probably half that size but huge like. They're like 20 inches tall, and it was being sold by a very famous skateboarder from the 80s named lance mountain, who's a legend, and he has this insane horde that no, that is like it's the stuff of legend, and occasionally he sells stuff. So he put one of these up for sale and I wanted to buy it. So I was like 200 bucks and they were like yeah it's probably only worth 80, but I wanted it immediately.
Speaker 2I didn't, I just wanted it, so I overpaid for it.
Speaker 1Where did? Where did it come on the market? Is there a sticker on his instagram?
Speaker 2he just has an instagram account called lance mountain shop and he'll occasionally sell stuff from his insane skateboarding history horde did your heartbeat go up when you saw it go? Yeah, I got really scared. I wasn't gonna get it.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah panicking about not getting the stick. Well then, I bought another one, like I my, my.
Speaker 2I mean I have that disorder where, like, if I see something, I buy it. I'm like because I want, then I get scared that it'll get like discontinued so I have to buy a second one for safety, which is stupid okay, so, so and then.
Speaker 1So is it like you get excited, you get the feeling of peace that you bought one. Then you get a little tickle of like I need to make this safer. Yeah, you buy the second one, and then you have self-loathing no, I never regret having more of a sticker.
Speaker 2I like because I sit there, it's like I I really think, think that like I don't know if you have Costco where you live.
Speaker 1They just opened one in Scarborough, Maine, and I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2Well, it's like rich people behavior for the middle class.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Because you're just like see how many paper towels I have. So I feel the same way about like collecting sort of cheap things like stickers, where I'm just like I put them all in a photo album and I'll turn to a page and say there's like there's a small version of that clock graphic right, yeah, I have like 25 and I really love that I have 25 of them yeah, they come in two colors, red and blue, and I just have a page of them and I'm just like I have so many of them because, I love it.
Speaker 2It's my favorite skate graphic, so just the more I have. If I like a sticker and I can have so many of them, I just look. I don't even feel the slightest pinch of regret. I look at it and I just think I have so many are there animals in your garage? No, that's my. That would be a workman that my.
Speaker 1Should we bring him on the pod? He's on it anyways, doc, he's on it if you hear us, hey guys, we're gonna take a moment. Uh, this episode is brought to you by kevin's neighbor. Seems to be sawing or sanding handyman.
Speaker 2My neighbor, I'm convinced, hires handyman to have people to talk to.
Speaker 1Oh, god bless her that makes me sad, it's old age is incredibly sad it is indeed. Yeah, it's good. That's my stand-up. Is all about my dad going yeah, Anyway. So yeah, my opening line is anyone else's dad about to die? Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2Your dad hasn't died yet you pussy.
Speaker 1I know, Kevin, we're not going to go there. We're not going to go there.
Speaker 2Are you going to know where the body is right away? That's cool.
Speaker 1Kevin is not kidding. His dad went missing and we didn't know where the body was. And I remember driving up with Mahondra.
Speaker 2Oh yeah.
Speaker 1Hungover.
Speaker 2She put me in the trunk of her car and I was so hungover that's how I knew you guys were dating, because I didn't know you guys, it was still a secret.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And she drove. Need to bring him to this.
Speaker 1Yeah Well, she was telling me what was important in life, Cause I woke up with a raging nausea headache and she was like he's Kevin, your friend. I was like a hundred percent, I love Kevin. He's like then get in the fucking trunk and take a nap. We're driving to his poor father's funeral.
Speaker 2You understand why I I love your wife.
Speaker 1She is a legend. She is a legend. She is as loyal as they come. Yeah, okay, so we were distracted, but I was. Oh, so the stickers. So there's another thing that you're known for is watches. I do love a wristwatch, and my sense is that a lot of these stand-ups who are completely loaded love talking to you about what watch they should buy.
Speaker 2They do come to me.
Speaker 1Tell me who some of the people that you've advised on their watch purchases?
Speaker 2I have mostly advised Tom Segura.
Speaker 1Segura. For those who, this is one of the most famous stand-ups in the world.
Speaker 2Yeah, Tom. Well, I'm really close friends with this comic named Dean Del Rey, who I met because of watches.
Speaker 2Okay, he was at the comedy store and he noticed my watch and I noticed his. But Segura is the guy who texts me the most about watches he wants to get and he's my favorite because he buys them. He loves a watch. I get a lot of guys who are like, hey, I think I want to get this watch, and then I tell them where to go. I send it to a guy and they don't buy it. The beauty of tom is I can send him something almost as a joke because it's so expensive, and then he'll be like I got it. Fuck. Yeah, dude, how many watches do you own? I don't have many now. I only have like five you do, you sell them yeah you got it?
Speaker 1yeah, because my dog needed surgery oh my dog needed much a lot of health, that's why watches, especially for those who are listening like I think you could run a watch consulting business there's a lot of those and they are.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I'll be. The truth is I like watches a lot, but I mostly the reason I'll like a watch, or I'll pick a watch, is because usually I'll see someone I really admire or respect wearing it. Like, the reason I always wanted a Rolex was because it's what Robert Redford wears in.
Speaker 1All the President's Men. Yes, and I was like what kind of watch was that?
Speaker 2It's a 1976-ish or maybe before that. It's a Submariner 1680. Okay, it's a great. It's just a really straight up, normal dive watch of the time. Probably wasn't even terribly expensive, but I love that. It's my favorite movie probably. Oh, all the president's men. Yeah, I love that movie so much. I've seen it 200 times really, I'm obsessed with it. I haven't seen it once. Oh, dude, it's perfect. You love it so much you won't be able to handle it. Okay, and he wears that watch.
Speaker 2So that's like paul newman, you know like a watch like he wore, like francis bacon wore a rolex.
Speaker 1So same with hunter thompson uh-huh, and that's what did hunter he wore a coke gmt, a coke gmt, coke, bezel gmt. So the bezels red and black oh, I've seen that I was obsessed with gabberduth has a pepsi.
Speaker 2What your friend?
Speaker 1gabber new gabberduth david canuth, yeah, he wore gabberdine pants, so we started calling him Gabbard-nooth.
Speaker 2Yeah, gabbard-nooth, that's amazing. He has a Pepsi GMT, so the Coke is red and black.
Speaker 1Do you have a photographic memory with people's watches that?
Speaker 2they wear. I tend to notice. I'm always looking at what people wear.
Speaker 1You have an incredible memory, right? Do you forget? Things forget things. I don't. Yeah, I mean I, for I don't remember most of my childhood, most most of my memories.
Speaker 2You're basically completely repressed you're. Who knows who touched me? Who knows? I could have been a real open manhole for those early years. Wait, so let's let's.
Speaker 1Let's switch into the darkness, the reputation of comedians as being just like soulless, dark and fucked up, which I don't think is true. It's mostly true.
Speaker 2You think so, you know so. It's a lot of digestion of damage.
Speaker 1Yeah, but doesn't, because I remember Al Madrigal is a mutual friend and Al is another very accomplished stand-up.
Speaker 2And Al said One of the greatest.
Speaker 1No, that was you who said it. It's like getting the poison out.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1That was you who said it. It's like getting the poison out.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I've used that line. Let's talk about that. Somebody my friend, Claudia Lano said something where she said stand-ups want to control the way they're made fun of.
Speaker 1Uh-huh.
Speaker 2So you're talking about a person that is made fun of, Like I was. As a young person, I was made fun of constantly. What were you made fun?
Speaker 1of for.
The Comedy Store Experience
Speaker 2Just for being nerdy and weird. Was it like 80s villain douchebags? Yeah, just classic 80s.
Speaker 1Like push you over in the back, like whack your books down dude, yeah, totally. And what did you feel that breaks my fucking heart, dude, I mean I felt the worst.
Speaker 2You know, you feel what everyone feels. You feel like just this powerless weakness and you're like, how can I get this to stop? And if you become the funny guy, I got out of it in two ways. I'm lucky in that I was able to get out of it in two ways. What high school was this crescent valley high school?
Speaker 1burn it to the ground burn it to the fucking ground.
Speaker 2I actually still exist yeah, it's actually a great high school now okay but when I was there, I hated it more than how many kids probably. It was a relatively decent size, one like I don't know 500, something like that, 600 oh, it wasn't that huge.
Speaker 1No, no, I don't, I actually don't know. Okay, you, you don't remember your childhood. I know there were two things.
Speaker 2I recently did a bit where I only did it a few times, where? Because I recently got invited to my 30th high school graduation and I didn't reply to the email because I never do. But I wrote a letter and read it on stage and I I just was so confused because the woman who does it, who organizes it I remember her from high school, she was really nice. Do you have the letter? Could you read it? Uh, no, it's in the house but it was mostly just like I don't understand.
Speaker 2I was worried that she has like actual stockholm syndrome, that why would you identify with people like help them plan a party to show off their alcoholism?
Speaker 1These people were such assholes. The high school was just filled with assholes.
Speaker 2It was just a classic 80s douchebag kind of situation. Just a white suburb full of dickheads. Where? What town? La Crescenta?
Speaker 1La Crescenta. It's a lovely town.
Speaker 2Yeah, my dad was a school teacher there. It was a lovely town, but it was that top-down dickhead mentality. It was basically like trickle-down cruelty, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1Dad sucked.
Speaker 2Yeah, just like I mean, if you wanted to cure mental health in America, you should just ban football at every high school in the country, because it's just like they just let those people run wild yeah and torture anyone who's not like them. Oh, and because you know, I don't know how much money a high school football team makes per year probably about forty thousand dollars, but so it's just.
Speaker 2It's a part of the culture of america and so all the athletes just get to treat everyone like they're absolute garbage and it's awful. It's awful. So the way that I got around it was by being funny. I could make everybody laugh and then I got out of it by drawing shit for assholes you mean they would be like hey, man, will you draw my girlfriend for me like a?
Speaker 2bunch of guys on the football team were volunteer firemen and so I drew some t-shirt design of like a bear in a fireman's outfit breaking through a wall. You know, like shit like that. I did stuff like that to get them to kind of leave me alone more, so I didn't get it nearly as bad as a lot of people Did you have a friend group of like quote unquote nerds.
Speaker 1Well, steve Howie. Steve Howie is an actor. If you don't know him, he was on Reba.
Speaker 2He was on Shameless. You're currently testing against him for a part.
Speaker 1Yeah, he's a competitor of mine.
Speaker 2Yeah, you guys are both tall and very handsome and funny. But also he got insanely yoked, yeah, although it's calmed down now oh yeah, he calmed it back down Because he was so jacked up that it was like, besides playing a wrestler, are we gonna do?
Speaker 1here.
Speaker 2Steve howie got so incredibly yoked I was worried about him yeah, he was jacked up, yeah so, but now he's a little, now he's just in incredible shape okay uh, so he was my, but he was.
Speaker 1He was a nerd, he wasn't a football player he was like you, he hung, he liked nerds his dad was my acting teacher for a little bit exactly so steve?
Speaker 2steve was like a weirdo who just didn't look like one uh-huh like he hung out with me, our armenian friend pedro, and this vietnamese kid named tron and could have been cool and didn't.
Speaker 1What about my dentist assistant? Doesn't he remember?
Speaker 2remember uh oh, justin horn. Yeah, justin horn was like a couple grades behind us but yeah, justin horn was around later, but he, justin horn, steve moved to colorado and I became friends with justin horn like when I was like a senior and then just out of high school because we all started hanging around our friend's band, eve six. Eve six was your friend's band. Yeah, my very first. What's their most famous song inside out? So my very first art job.
Speaker 1Inside Out they were like a real.
Speaker 2I mean essentially Eve Six is why I get to be an actor and become a comic. Tell me more. Because my very first ever job I got paid to draw anything was a t-shirt for them. When they were called Yakku. They drew a baby pointing a gun at the viewer and with a flag that said their name sticking out of the gun. Can you find that? Google it and find that. My friend.
Speaker 2Maybe my friend, probably not okay, that sucks they made 20 and they paid me 20 and it was amazing because kids at school wore it and everyone thought it was cool so they that, yeah, what's the name of that band?
Speaker 1Yak something.
Speaker 2Well, they were called Yakku and their record label made them change their name to EVE6.
Speaker 1Were they like high school stars?
Speaker 2They were well, kinda Again. This high school was so full of idiots they didn't get that this really cool band was happening. Some of us did, but then they got a record record deal when they were still in high school it was amazing.
Speaker 1Adam levine was just talking. He was similar. It was sort of like high school seven.
Speaker 2Well he adam levine grew up in like beverly hills and a rich a and r guy lived next door do you have hatred? They were called kara's flowers and I remember seeing them before they were maroon five there.
Speaker 1It's very surprising to me and I think to a lot of people who don't know la, how many famous people actually grew up here yeah, a lot.
Speaker 2And how many movie stars were child actors Almost all of them, I think, to become I will say, I think, to become a genuinely big star, you kind of have to start really early, Really early, because in a weird way you need like Leonardo Dirio was started when he was like 10- 10 growing pains I remember he came on and I go damn that kid's good that.
Speaker 2But also I think it's like it's almost like a business reality where that's a bankable person who stood the test of time like a brand in a weird way. So, scarlett johansson, yes, scarlett johansson, toby mcguire, they were all. They all started very, very, very young very young and I think and I think there's just a.
Speaker 2There's a track record of execution where it's like that kid knows how to show up to work and do their job. We don't have to worry about them. Yeah, and they're bringing along a fan base over time yeah, who played batman?
Speaker 1he's? He was in the last emperor. Yeah, christian bale was in christianies or some shit.
Speaker 2He was like eight. No, he's yeah, so there is something to that. I know like you know I don't know how I feel about kid acting all the time, but there is something to the fact that, like a lot of those actors have been doing it well since Raven Simonyi was one of the best sitcom actors of all time when she was like 14.
Speaker 2all time when she was like 14, that's so raven mahondra was on that show with her. Because mahondra I remember mahondra called me was like I'm getting my ass kicked so hard by her. Just tell me what to do, just so I don't look like an idiot and I was like just yell all your jokes and I remember the next day she was like, oh my god, it's working, I go yeah you're not gonna beat raven, she's gonna kick your ass, that's fine, she's one of the greats, but you can still do well, so just yell all your jokes.
Collecting Obsessions: Stickers & Watches
Speaker 2It's unbelievable. Um, yeah, there's those people that are just, you know, uh, uh, that are just these phenoms. They're, they're essentially just acting prodigies you know what's completely?
Speaker 1this is what I know. It's completely useless. It strikes me for acting is college.
Speaker 2Yeah, no, you're just wasting the years when you're kind of the hottest yeah it's true. You can go to college later, like Natalie Portman did later, but that stretch if I had started acting when I was like 21,. If I had started when I was 17, I have a totally different career because I'm in the room competing for, like all those early 2000s teen movies.
Speaker 2I may have kicked some of those guys's ass, you never know yeah I was rail thin and had glasses like I may have worked my way into, like she's all that a hundred percent could have been like I may have had a little bit of a different career. If you really really really want to act, you should start as soon as you can. Yeah, I agree, I mean, I don't know about. Well now, the truth is, if you really really want to act, you should start a tiktok as soon as you can a tiktok as soon as you can well now the.
Speaker 2I think the way executives think and the way agents think is completely different they are expecting you to kind of bring along your own career.
Speaker 1They don't want to build people on their own anymore. No, that whole game is over. Where you work your way up, you build up your quote and you build a career.
Speaker 2They're looking for self-starters who bring a following with them now.
Speaker 1Yeah, and they're just making their movies or making their content, and then they'll be like oh, we can put them in something.
Speaker 2Yeah, you need to be like a walking commercial for yourself it sucks, it is what it is.
Speaker 1I know you don't like. I don't like it because I liked when there was a giant gate and there were gatekeepers and all you had to do was convince them that you were worthy I will say I.
Speaker 2The difference I notice is a lot of these, a lot of the people that maybe get famous a bit quicker now and aren't as tested and haven't been around as long. They tend to fail.
Speaker 1They tend to be like one and done flash in the plant, in the pan, or it's just like this person has a big following.
Speaker 2They put them in a big thing. They suck, and then you're like, well, now what then? They just trickle down and and then three years later, you're competing against them for a guest star yeah, okay, so we here's.
Speaker 1The problem is that you have so many interests yeah, as do I sure, and this is a stand-up thing, so let's just go right into what would you? What would you advise? Is stand-up the same as acting? Just start, at any age, with stand-up, yeah, just start.
Speaker 2Stand-up is a numbers game and I will say stand-up. It is to me and I, me and me and Neil Brennan were talking about this years ago.
Speaker 1Neil Brennan, very famous comedian, one of the greatest joke writers of all time.
Speaker 2Truly one of the great stand-ups.
Speaker 1His three thing, where he did that power, the three mics was unbelievable. Neil is one of the greats. Go watch it.
Speaker 2Straight up. Neil's joke ability is shocking. Shout out to Neil, he's a brilliant dude. Shocking, shout out to neil, a brilliant dude. And uh um, we were saying that stand-up is maybe the fairest area of show business there are unfair elements to it, but the best joke writers, the best comedians tend to do the best yes, right there are anomalies, obviously, but chris rock isn't accidentally as great as he is.
Speaker 1He's right.
Speaker 2He's one of the best comedians. He's top five.
Speaker 1You know yeah.
Speaker 2It is like Mulaney, guys like that Neal, who are voracious joke writers. Seinfeld a voracious joke writer Sam Morrell. Voracious joke writer Like someone like, or someone who's just a wildly funny, brilliant performer like Leslie Jones. They are as big as they are for a reason because they are tremendous and when you see them live you're just like the room shakes.
Speaker 1The room shakes.
Speaker 2Yeah, and there are people that may not be household names, like Earthquake or someone like that. Earthquake crushes so hard you don't know what to do.
Speaker 1I have no idea who that is Exactly.
Speaker 2you don't know who Earthquake is Earthquake crush. You don't know what to do. I have no idea who that is exactly. You don't know who earthquake earthquake crushes so hard and if you had to go after him, you'd run home like I would. If I had to follow earthquake, I'd be like fucking god damn same with leslie.
Speaker 1I've had to follow leslie. I'm just like god damn it, I don't know leslie's work, leslie jones.
Speaker 2She's on. She was on snl, she is. Neil said about her. Leslie jones brings a towel on stage because she uses it Like she crushes so hard. You can't believe it.
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean literally the room. What is the towel joke? I don't get that.
Speaker 2She's so physical that she sweats.
Speaker 1Oh, oh, Like she needs a towel.
Speaker 2She's very physical, yeah she just murders so hard. The room heats up.
Speaker 1Ah, people are laughing so hard the room heats up from their fucking breath.
Speaker 2You don't like watching stand-ups. No, I hate it. It's awful mostly so.
Speaker 1How do you know that leslie's I'll watch leslie you'll watch the best.
Speaker 2Oh well, someone like that. You're like you can't. Why wouldn't you want to watch? Okay, okay, so there are exceptions, like I think you and I both probably fall victim to a Roger Federer warming up YouTube video I go, I watched, I've watched thousands yeah. He'll just just to watch him warm up.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's like so in slow-mo.
Speaker 2If I'm at the store and Leslie's on the lineup, I'll watch Leslie, or something you know anyone like that Cause you're like you're going to seef or they can't breathe, and you're like this person's going to remember this the rest of their life.
Speaker 1You're so right about. I got to go back to that comment. It's like a direct line of effort and creativity. Yeah, there's just no middleman, no you have to like last night.
Speaker 2I do a show sometimes with Neil Brennan. It's a new material show and last night we both did fine. But there are portions of Neil did great. There are portions of my actor I was just eating my own ass up there because I was doing new jokes.
Speaker 1And they're not good yet.
Speaker 2Tell me a new joke. That wasn't good.
Speaker 1I was doing something about my age, where I was like I'm old, yes, we're old, we're old.
Speaker 2And someone asked me are you going to dye your beard? And I said no, because I'm not a fucking liar, yeah.
Speaker 1I like that.
Speaker 2And also I don't want people to think I'm younger than I am, because I don't want you to invite me to your young shit. Yeah, I don't want like first of all, if you're like hair meeting for drinks at 9 45, no, no, no, kevin, tight, it's nine night time. I have an old dog on steroids who it makes him drink a lot of water, so he wakes. Wakes me up. It's 635 am, otherwise I got to mop up a river of piss which I don't want to do yeah.
Speaker 2So, like I'm not, how old are you? Fifty, forty, eight. So I don't want to stay up. I don't want to go to your young people shit. Also, I don't want to ruin your hang.
Speaker 1You're having the time of your life on goofballs at coachella. You turn around and a guy looks like your dad's accountant sitting there like what are we doing? We vibing, where are we going after? I don't belong there. And so you say this run and is it is it kind of laugh.
Speaker 1I get like spikes of laughter here and there, but it's disorganized the way I did it just now sounded slightly more organized than it did last night, okay, but here's what I I've noticed like I was watching, uh, mark norman, I paid like two bucks for this video and he was just working on a joke and it was just like a 12 minute documentary as he tried to make this joke work and of course my memory is terrible so I don't know what the joke was, but it struck me he's like it wasn't working. It wasn't working every single time he did the joke that wasn't working was a bigger laugh than I've ever gotten sure, so so your sensitivity to laughs once you get good in your professional must be different than mine. Like it's like he's getting laughs but he says it's not working.
Speaker 2There's a neil calls them earners okay when a joke's good, it's an earner. Like you know, it's gonna do well every time, whereas sometimes the energy of the crowd can give you a false laugh for a joke.
Speaker 1That's not actually that great and you know that in the moment?
Speaker 2yeah, because I can tell based on how the other jokes do uh-huh so a joke. You can kind of get joke. You've done a number of times. You can gauge how a new joke is doing based on how that joke does. So if that joke, if a tried and true joke, murders really really hard, you're maybe going to get some grace on a newer thing. That's not actually that great yet I see.
Speaker 1So if you get a normal middle laugh on a very reliable joke, then there's more integrity for the rest of the new stuff.
Speaker 2Yeah they're not giving you anything you don't deserve Right, and then you know if a new joke does. Also, there's a lot of juice behind a new joke. When you do it, your eyes are a lot more present.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2When I'm telling a joke. I've done 50 times. I've got to be careful not to go completely dead.
Speaker 1But your vibe on stage when I saw you on the Comedy Store and Kevin was fantastic, but it was so. Talk about jokes per minute, talk about joke density. I try to not give the audience any room no room and and you didn't, um, but it was so clean. Uh, but you have a kind of I mean your persona. I would say there is a sort of sizzling rage underneath. Yeah, there's a, there's like a remember that movie falling down yes, michael douglas, I've always really identified with that yeah, but you're the sweetest, nicest kindness, like very loyal, caring friend who's also.
Speaker 2I'm your neighbor, you're also like have a nihilism. I'm your next door neighbor and you just didn't see the murder coming.
Surviving High School as a Nerd
Speaker 1You're a sweetheart, but you're, yeah, you obviously have a dark sense of humor. Do all stand-ups have a dark sense of humor In my experience? Yes, yes.
Speaker 2I've met very few. There's a few that are just very optimistic and they're light because of whatever I don't know, but most comics. The reason I love being around comics is you can say something insanely dark.
Speaker 1And no one's like hey, what the fuck?
Speaker 2They're just like yeah.
Speaker 1No one gets rattled no one gets rattled.
Speaker 2No one gets rattled.
Speaker 1You can say insane things to each other who is who would be surprising as someone who is in funnier in person than they are on stage. Does anyone? Uh does that make sense?
Speaker 2I'd be careful to say that because it makes it seem like they're not good on stage. Yeah, I'd be careful to say that because it makes it seem like they're not good on stage.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2But I will say Bobby Lee, who murders, by the way.
Speaker 1Bobby Lee, I saw, hasn't changed his act in how many years.
Speaker 2Oh, I don't know, I haven't watched his act in detail in a long time.
Speaker 1He's got new stuff now, oh, he does.
Speaker 2But Bobby murders harder than almost anyone. Bobby is a fucking great comedian. I will say off stage, though, he's a much more esoteric thinker than you would maybe guess by watching his stand-up stand-up is a lot about him and his family and things like that. But bobby is a genuine eccentric and he, he really there's a bird in your garage. I have these. These birds have built nests in here and I'm really into it. You love it. Oh, he can't get out.
Speaker 1Hold on you're their friend one sec, yeah. By the way, I'm not editing this interview, so it's just gonna all be in. Oh, he's trying to get out, but yeah, he'll get. I opened the door for you. Fly free, little bird get out my friend. I love you we love you.
Speaker 2Yeah, they build nests in here, and I'm so into it yeah, it's great, it's nice, my grandfather oh he's out had this giant bird cage that he could like walk into in his backyard, yeah and he had finches and he would just walk in there and feed them every day and they would just flutter around them.
Speaker 1They're just flutter around your uncle, my grandfather, oh, no way yeah um, anyways shout out to kevin's grandfather shout out to gordon christie.
Speaker 2Gordon christie dead like everyone else so. But Bobby's a real like. Bobby has probably as broad a kind of menu of interest as I do. He's into all kinds of amazing shit Like he'll turn me on to a kind of music on. He's turned me on to this genre music called cozy synth. It's like it's like synthesizer music but like feel like you're all wrapped in a blanket. Oh, really it literally calms you down and makes you feel cute, like you're in a cottage Will you send me a link.
Speaker 1I'll play a little right at this moment it's called.
Speaker 2Some people call it cottagecore it's's rad, it sounds like the background music of a Japanese video game where you just build a farm.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have a friend who's addicted to the farming video game. Yeah, it got Marcel through.
Speaker 2COVID oh yeah, just build a farm. She just built a garden, whatever it was called. Animal Crossing, oh, animal Crossing, yeah, amazing, and, by the way, I could just watch her play it.
Speaker 1It was so soothing the watching a video game thing I criticized so deep with my son. And then I just stand there for 10 minutes watching someone play minecraft and I'm like what am I doing? Look, it sucks you in.
Speaker 2That's why I can't play them. They're too good.
Speaker 1No, it's all too good I stay away. I do too. I don't know how I right now and we can talk about this because we both love tennis yeah, I just put ATP 250 tournaments on, like early rounds. Yeah, just two kids, you don't, I'll watch a.
Speaker 2Stanford match. I'll watch a Stanford match with almost no spectators and these two kids are absolutely. There's something about college where they play maniacally because there's like nothing to lose. They only have to gain, yeah, and they're only going to get win and get noticed if they are playing there's no like I, better play it safe these kids are playing a hundred thousand percent and screaming the entire time and there's no one there. There's no one there, absolutely. And they're cheating.
The LA Vibe Shift
Speaker 2Yeah, they're just lying, calling foot faults and when I was in high, I was on the tennis team in high school and I we I played doubles because we were a very bad team so you took all. You just were devoted they were devoted to doubles. It was the only way we could maybe win yeah, my my partner one time called a foot fault from the baseline on the other team and I was like dude, come on he was 80 feet away, full 80 feet away, called a fucking foot fault in the middle of a match.
Speaker 2We were losing by a mile and I was like homie yeah, tennis brings out.
Speaker 1It's my one knock on the beautiful sport. Is it just bring like people fucking cheat?
Speaker 2oh, that's why I never play for points If you're playing tennis with me we're going to rally for an hour and go home because I'll start cheating. I'm the least competitive person I know and I'm like I'll fucking lie about a serve.
Speaker 1I'll lie about a serve in a game.
Speaker 2I'm losing by a lot. There's something about it.
Speaker 1It's like the original room of the comedy store.
Speaker 2You're in the dark, so you can be your worst version. The reason my act is so tight is because I hate dealing with hecklers.
Speaker 1So I just don't give them any space. Yeah, you hate hecklers when.
Speaker 2I first started at the store. It was a free-for-all so I had to deal with a lot of hecklers. I had a shitty act so I'd have these gaps with no laughs that just begged people to yell out at me. You know you're fucking awful or whatever, and so that's why.
Speaker 1I developed this.
Speaker 2And I heard Rock say it. He's like the tighter my act gets, the less I deal with people talking.
Speaker 1So how long are you when you say you and Neil do a weekly new joke?
Speaker 2Well, he moved he doesn't live in California. Why he moved to Hawaii? For sanity, if you could.
Speaker 1So he's not part of the LA vibe shift, not as much.
Speaker 2I mean, he comes here a lot, though he does, yeah, but he's here now and so we do it. It's more like every couple months.
Speaker 1Are you going to the comedy store tonight? No, I'll be there saturday and sunday. Saturday, sunday yeah, saturday night, it's a good show. Yeah, that's the all the tours.
Speaker 2Friday set yeah friday, saturday I mean to be honest most nights the comedy store good yeah, it's all the toys like the most famous.
Speaker 1What are the two most famous in la the improv? Uh, the improv, the comedy store? Yeah, and they still are. Is that the best now? I've been hanging out at the comedy cellar in new york, yeah, and hanging out seeing so many shows, what is? Is there a rivalry?
Speaker 2la new york no, I mean, here's the truth. Uh, for some reason, I don't know why, comics who aren't in la love to talk about la la comics. We never talk about other places, we just don't and. I've cross-referenced this with every comic I know. Here. We just it's not a thing we think about. You can call us a bunch of narcissistic, up our own asses comics. Fine, I don't. I'm not. I know a lot of comics in New York I'm interested in, like hearing about how great someone is. I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1We never talk about it. I never sit there.
Speaker 2I'll see podcast after podcast with comics from other places.
Speaker 1LA comics are like this. First of all, none of them are from here. You're talking about a bunch of guys who moved here from Chicago or some shit.
Speaker 2I never sit and talk about other clubs outside of LA with comics.
Speaker 1Who are the la comics?
Speaker 2that's what I mean that's the thing is there really aren't la comics. I mean what? Like marin mark marin, like neil marin, bill burr bill burr is boston, not really. He's been here forever and he was in new york longer than that.
Speaker 1Yeah, like he's an la guy, he's a store guy it's basically you're that wherever you live is where you're the comic. Yeah, so every new comic, I feel no rivalry for other cities.
Speaker 2I don't. I like good comedians I don't like, I'm not like oh, they're better than I don't care I don't give a shit like it's not a thing I think about, like I'm really only concerned with how my act is doing and how my jokes are doing. The truth is, most comics are trash. So as long as I'm decent, I don't have to worry about other comics. There's spots for you if you're a decent comic.
Speaker 1So when a New York?
Speaker 2comic comes here and they're great. I'm like great hi.
Speaker 1This was the thing that's always been confusing to me about you, because when you were doing stand-up during quarter-life days, yeah, I'm like what the fuck is he doing? Like? This seems miserable to like three times a week, have to like put yourself out there and like try to be funny, like I didn't understand it at all and I was just like you felt like an alien to me. I couldn't. Well, I try like a masochist.
Speaker 2I always thought of jokes and then I or not always I started thinking of jokes when I was about 18, okay but they were like popsicle stick jokes, things like that and so I just started thinking of jokes, for some reason.
Speaker 1What's a popsicle stick like uh?
Speaker 2the first joke I ever thought of in my life. I was actually. I was at Max Collins, the lead singer of Eve Six's house. I was 18.
Speaker 1You're just dropping so much Eve Six.
Speaker 2It literally is the crux of why I got to be in show business.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, actually you said you were stand-up because of Eve, of eve six. Well, okay, never. The reason is they.
Speaker 2They were shooting a video for teach, a movie called teaching mrs tingle, which katie holmes was in, and I wanted to see katie holmes in real life attaboy, yeah, and so I went to the video shoot. She was so I was joking with friends like I'm gonna talk to katie holmes. She was so stunning and tall in real life I was like I'm definitely not talking, I'm gonna stay over here so I just hung out by the cameras and was making people laugh because I'm annoying, and their manager was like what are you?
Speaker 1who are you?
Speaker 2who are you? And I was like my name is Kevin and then they're like oh, kevin does a lot of commercials and he's like what?
Speaker 1do you?
Speaker 2mean he goes. How many commercials have you done? I was like 10 and he goes, and how much time. I was like six months he goes.
Speaker 1Can you come to my office on Monday? Maybe? Actually I wasn't 18, I was like 20 when the okay thing happened and he goes just come. Can you come to my office on Monday? Actually I wasn't 18. I was like 20 when the thing happened and he goes. Can you come to my office on Monday and?
Speaker 2I was like okay, I'll come sure Because.
Speaker 1I'd gotten into commercials from art school it doesn't matter, and so he got me an agent, and that's how I started working as an actor, I see. So it was the serendipity of being on News 6.
Speaker 2serendipity of being on it was. It was basically making my friends laugh near their manager, a guy named stew sobel who unfortunately isn't with us anymore, but he was this amazing dude shout out manager stew was the best. He was such a sweetheart and he just I think he literally thought it was funny. I'm gonna make this skinny nerd.
Speaker 1I'm gonna get this skinny dork on television and how quickly after uh you signed with him, did things start happening. I got the first four jobs.
Speaker 2I auditioned for.
Speaker 1Wow, Because I was, I had no there were no stakes for me.
Speaker 2I was still in art school, so I was just like this is cool.
Speaker 1I'll just go try it, were they commercials.
Speaker 2No, I mean, I was already doing commercials at that point. Oh, right, right Ten.
Speaker 1But like my first three jobs I got because I was just kind of this new kid?
Speaker 2were they guest stars? They were guest stars. There were two guest stars in a movie and I was. Again, actors are sometimes a little behind on style, so I was the only skinny hipster kid with the glass like big kind of buddy holly glass you were on the tip of the spear of like the nerd, the nerd, the kind of cool nerd yeah, so like I want you remain there.
Joke Writing and Comedy Development
Speaker 2Sure, it's the. That's all I got. And so and I walked in and they were just like, oh, perfect, like I. It was a kind of right place at right time thing and I was funny enough and they were small, smallish parts and I looked perfect and I was kind of I kind of just got hired to be myself.
Speaker 1You were just a booking machine, yeah.
Speaker 2I got hired to be myself for like a decade.
Speaker 1It was really easy. And when did you start doing stand-up?
Speaker 2When I was like there was like 25-ish, there was a strike and I was like well, oh, the big writer's strike.
Speaker 1No, it was an actor's strike.
Speaker 2Oh, okay, and so there just wasn't a lot to do and I didn't like sitting around and doing nothing and I just started at the same time. Randomly I'd bought one of those like voice recorders at Radio Shack. Yeah, with the cassette tapes.
Speaker 1Sure.
Speaker 2And I would just walk around saying things into it.
Speaker 1Really.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I had done a commercial with Bobby Lee, like when I was like 22.
Speaker 1Oh, you met him that early and he hadn't made it.
Speaker 2No, he hadn't, he wasn't even on Mad TV yet. And then I ran, ran into him at amoeba and I was like I think I want to try amoeba music records, yeah, records, and I was like I've been recording jokes in this thing, I want to try stand-up. And he was like okay, and we met at a coffee shop and he said come to the comedy store this monday and tuesday and I'll get you on the open mic wait, bobby lee was already doing.
Speaker 1He was already a regular there.
Speaker 2Oh wow, well that actually we did the commercial and he was like I'm a stand-up. And I was like, oh, can I come check it out. So I went to see him on a thursday in the original room and he fucking lit the room on fire yeah, he, he, he's incredibly, he's a he's a he melts rooms, when bobby's crushing his hardest, it's it's really something.
Speaker 2Yeah, and he just made, he crushed so hard and I'm sitting in the back of the original room where you did the open mic and I was like I have to, I have to figure out how to do that. Oh yeah, because I saw it and I was just like, okay, I met him, I know that person. Yeah, I want to know what it feels like to do that to this room. So bad, I will do whatever I have to to learn how to do it yeah, you caught a sickness so that's to answer your question like how, why is he doing this?
Speaker 2why would he put himself through this? Because I needed to know what it was like to murder a hundred, whatever people, 100 people, 300 people. I wanted to know what it was like to write jokes, come up with an idea and then see if it, and then have it do well basically, when and when do you have a show that was your best show ever or like, do you have a? Uh, I don't really remember them have you accomplished that?
Speaker 2yeah, totally yeah, like I, there have been nights where that room's packed and I've definitely just decimated the place, decimated them yeah, like that and you know, like in in the main room, the bigger room, like there have been, when the crowd is good and and I'm at my best, like I've completely destroyed them.
Speaker 1Do you know why some nights you destroy and some nights you don't?
Speaker 2Yeah, there's a looseness if you're relaxed. Yes, because I know if my jokes are where they should be, I don't have to worry about my jokes. So there's just an added. I've never done cocaine, but it's what people describe. It's that little bit of a push cocaine gives you it's that like confidence. It's a looseness, it's just a a you're, you're relaxed up there, so it almost make it feel like you're coming up with the things off the top of your head, even though they're jokes.
Speaker 1You've done 50, 60 times yeah, it really feels in the moment it is an element of the crowd.
Speaker 2If the crowd's listening, if they're really there, they really just want to laugh that they have the right kind of attitude and presence, you can catch it. It takes all. It's an alchemy thing yeah, it takes all those things and you can just catch a great set and you're just absolutely murder a lot of the best sets I've had. Have been on the road with whitney because they're so excited to see her or her, yeah, and you'll do what? 15, 2020 minutes, 25 minutes and they can be really easy because they're so hyped to see her and they're just like that's her friend, she loves him.
Speaker 1You can really crush some of those. Is that fun touring with Whitney? What do you guys do?
Speaker 2what's touring like. The reason we tour together is because during the day, we don't like to do anything.
Speaker 1We like to sleep.
Speaker 2You just sleep all day, yeah, just as much sleep as you can get, and then we do like one activity maybe, and then go do the show Like you like, go in a swan boat or something, or just go buy stickers Antique store.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, you'll noodle around. You're super fun to noodle through cultural areas.
Speaker 2If there's a junk store.
Speaker 1I'm there, you go to a junk store and you're in heaven. Oh, it's the best. So you also have this fascination with the Cheesecake Factory. It's a great restaurant. I'm not saying it's bad, I just the way it's the fabric of our country. You also have this obsession with malls. I love a mall, well.
Speaker 2well, I was raised at the mall glendale galleria I've been going to since I was 13, which gallery glendale? The glendale galleria. I've been going there for 35 years, but the glendale galleria, the grove you're talking about the americana, which is across the street, yes, okay, okay, so which is also a great mall.
Speaker 1Yeah, go to the movies all the time yeah, it's actually less crowded than the grove, right? Yeah, no, it depends, okay, anyway. So we were on a heater and I just I derailed it by getting into that because, oh, you're talking about touring with whitney. Yeah, yeah, I just want to hear about it because I'm always I. I went and saw a lot of big comics come into portland, maine. Yeah, now this is I've performed in portland, maine.
Speaker 2They hated me Some opera house. It was me and Whitney and holy shit, they hated me.
Speaker 1Really.
Speaker 2They hated both of us what. It was one of the rare. I mean Whitney always murders, but it was like if she usually is a 10, it was like an 8.
Speaker 1And she was like what the fuck is this?
Speaker 2Like Maine, there's New England. There's something wrong there.
Speaker 1I love that you're saying this, I'll be honest. I don't love performing in Maine. That is amazing for those.
Speaker 2Maine comics.
Speaker 1Have you performed at the Empire Comedy Club?
Speaker 2no, because Whitney does mostly theaters so this was like an opera house, but the main problem was it's like one of those subscriber places, so the people that have tickets don't necessarily buy tickets for that show for her.
Speaker 1They get tickets for all the shows and they're just like the first three rows were people in their 80s. Oh and whitney, if you guys haven't heard, if you haven't.
Speaker 2She's a brash lady, she's extremely dirty?
Speaker 1no, she's not extremely dirty, she's not, but she can be dirty, okay, and but, were just like.
Speaker 2I think we were both a little. I was a little dark. I'm a little too death heavy for people that close to a graveyard. Yes and Whitney was maybe a bit too brash for some of the older men.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, men can find Whitney a bit threatening. Well, I've been. I went to the cross insurance arena. I've seen bill burr there, I saw theo vaughn there, yeah, and I just I'm looking at these guys, especially now that I've like tried this thing my favorite, theo vaughn story yeah, please, we're we're doing the tuesday show.
Speaker 2It was me and neil it was years ago and theo's doing the show. I've been with theo forever and we're just sitting there. It's dead quiet because we're all kind of looking at our jokes and Theo just goes. I got a lot of problems, man.
Speaker 1And me and Neil both look up and we're like really he goes.
Speaker 2yeah, man, and like I don't know if I got enough years to fix all of them.
Speaker 1And we're like. I was like Theo, you're like 30. A lot of time he goes. I got a lot of problems. Man, it's so funny. My brother came into town in 2017 into la I was living here and, uh, I had just met, I'm where I'm repped at gersh agency, shadow gersh, and I had uh and shout out for dropping me oh, awkward, um no, so I, I, I ran into the stand-up guy, gersh, yeah, and he's like you don't want tickets anywhere.
Speaker 1And I was like I would love to go to the comedy store. Yeah, I sent him an email. I found it because I was just typing in in the search bar, gersh. I was like what is that email? And I go hey john, hey jim, thank you so much, it was super fun. One standout amazing was this guy named Theo Vaughn.
Speaker 2This is in 2017.
Speaker 1I had no recollection that I'd ever seen him, even after going to him in Portland. Theo's really funny and Bobby Lee and him have this insane relationship right.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's beautiful. Well, you can't really have a normal relationship with Theo.
Speaker 1He's a real deal, authentically just. Again you want to talk about like an eccentric.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's a genuine he's genuinely eccentric and a genuine esoteric abstract thinker in his own way and when you talk to him are your conversations wild.
Speaker 1I haven't seen him in a long time. He's not in la that much. But no, he did want somebody goes.
Speaker 2I think you're too smart for this business.
Speaker 1I agree.
Speaker 2But yeah, he'll say, he is just an interesting dude. But he's also just kind of a normal nice guy too.
Speaker 1Yeah, he seems a big hearted guy. I think a lot of. I look at his podcast. I get a lot of clips in my algorithm.
Comedy's Cultural Landscape
Speaker 2Well, I kind of think you and him are not dissimilar. There's a type of guy Steve Howie, you, theo Vince Vaughn where you're all we're lucky from the standpoint of your aesthetic looks, but for whatever reason, you all of you kind of gravitate towards the freaks and kind of maybe the less popular, the less beloved members of society Like you're not're not terribly interested in. Well, you're interested in people in general, but you're like you kind of in a weird way. I think you have the instinct to want to protect us, the dorks, uh-huh, and like maybe you kind of, because you understand, you're like, okay, between the top of my head and the top of your head lives this neighborhood of which you're allowed to maybe protect us a little from bullies or keep us like, oh, I like that guy and it maybe takes some of the heat off of us when we're kids, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2As adults it's a little different and the culture has shifted to where nerds have become these maniacal psychopaths, quite literally ruining society At hyper speed, just speeding up society, just complete destruction.
Speaker 1At a rate.
Speaker 2That is so wild. You wonder if they Just are necrophiliacs that jerk off To poverty. Anyways so, but like Vince Vaughn's talked about it, and Steve's like that too, I didn't know Vince was a, a, a protector of there. He was, he had to be. There was something about like he had to be in like a special ed class or something when he was young.
Speaker 1Cause he was dyslexic. Oh, okay, something like that.
Speaker 2There's so many dyslexic people who are incredibly successful, and so I developed this friend group of kind of kids that were maybe a little different, and so he developed this kind of I think it's part of why he's so funny and why he gravitates towards comedy people. Because the comedy people are usually a bunch of ugly freaks. Yeah, you know, we're not comedy is like punk music, Like you probably shouldn't be hot for the most part, there are exceptions no offense.
Speaker 1Billy Idol, henry Rollins.
Speaker 2So you know, but for the most part it's the kind of it's the the lower below the cool kids group that has time to sit at home and write jokes because no one invites one of the seminal moments of my life. I'm in high school. I'm drawing in my sketchbook. A very pretty girl sitting next to me in science class sees one of my drawings, asks to use it for a flyer for a party at her house. I of course say yes, because she's a girl.
Speaker 1She uses it. Then the next time I see her on a Monday, she gives me the flyer, I'm like, oh cool.
Speaker 2I look and I notice the party had already happened. So I was good enough to draw the flyer, not good enough to go to the party?
Speaker 1oh, and I thought to myself this is what your life's probably going to be dog, oh get used to her oh dude, yeah, no, it's funny you say that, because I I really love strange people.
Speaker 2Yeah, I just want to be around people who are just into something yeah, I mean, I just find so many things fascinating because I was just kind of like an alone kid.
Speaker 1I'm jealous. I mean, I think in a weird way, there's just so much out there. I remember when we started hanging out I go, oh my God, I think I need more of a fun hog. I need, like you know, whether it's at a certain phase it was substances. Let's just add substances to this and we're going to have even more fun.
Speaker 2Well, I was always afraid of drugs, because you never drink. I was afraid of alcohol. I was surrounded by so many bad drugs.
Speaker 1I see In my high school.
Speaker 2The drunk kids were the worst bullies.
Speaker 1Have you ever had a drink? Yeah, yeah, I've gotten. Yeah, yeah, I've gotten drunk. Okay, I just don't love it.
Speaker 2I kind of like edibles, but again they make me eat too much.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, so I've kind of stopped that.
Speaker 2And I never got into real hard drugs. I didn't know, but all my friends were doing cocaine. They just didn't tell me or invite me.
Speaker 1Again, so cool.
Speaker 2Which is like nice, but also like come on bro yeah, they're, like kevin's, annoying enough.
Speaker 1We don't want to add an eight ball to this. Can you imagine?
Speaker 2how much he's going to talk about snow globes. It will be relentless, like can you imagine me on a blow.
Speaker 1Oh, I love it. And then ken burns to this other documentary I wish I could just lay out a gagger right now for you let's get this fentanyl in it. Stop this train finally.
Speaker 2Yeah, finally, but like so I just you know I had a lot of spare brain space and free time to just get into it. Also, when you're into art and you're an artist, you just the great thing about art Fran. Lebowitz says this in that great Netflix documentary artistic talent is one of the few things that's distributed pretty randomly and equally. You know you can't really inherit it?
Speaker 2really it's. It's a thing that just happens to you, yeah, but when you're so, because of that, there's a talented artistic person from every type of human on the earth yes, so it forces you to be into lots of things that are different than you, and you just get exposed to all kinds of stuff yeah, you, you have probably the most diverse amount of interests and people in your life.
Speaker 1I would say, especially you live in LA. Like there is my selling point. To people in LA anyone asks what it's like, I say you can have quite literally any life you want. You can be a triathlete, sure. You can be a little league coach yeah. You can smear feces on a loft downtown, yeah. You can live in Burbank in a van. I love that Burbank. I went there. I got off the plane from New Zealand. I was 32 hours without sleep. This is yesterday. I drove you flew to Burbank. No, sorry, I landed in LAX. And no, sorry, I landed in LAX and my whatever my job hunting was at Universal. I was like I just want to stay near there. And so I just drove to Burbank. And at 7 am, burbank it was so fucking dark, dude, the misery that I was like it was like the creatures.
Speaker 2To me, Burbank is a paradise. First of all, Toluca Lake is the Beverly Hills of the Valley.
Speaker 1Yes, it is.
Speaker 2And those homes are beautiful, but Burbank in general it's flat and quiet. Yes, and it's all the people that were like technicians in the industry, so there's an amazing model train culture there. Oh my God, One of the best model train stores in America is in Burbank, on Magnolia, I believe no it's on Buena Vista and Magnolia.
Speaker 2Also one of the most amazing things I've ever been to. My teacher at Art Center, jason Hawley, told me there's a bunch of people that would get together once a month in a gym in Burbank to fly their rubber band planes around the gym. These are to fly their rubber band planes around the gym. Oh these are balsa wood rubber band planes that are so lightweight the propeller moves like this fast, whoosh, whoosh, because they're so light yeah, they have contests.
Speaker 2They go to their practice and you just, I went there and I sat in a gym and I watched a bunch of adult men in their 50s who, working like aeronautics, fly these masterpieces around a gym and it was one of the greatest things I've ever seen you're loving.
Speaker 2and then they have a radio control time so all the people take, they stop with the rubber band ones and these guys fly their radio controlled ones. There's a giant fishing pole in case one gets caught in the ceiling, which happens. And I remember the next time I was in class and I was like dude, dude, that was so amazing, someone should do a documentary. And I remember my teacher goes, or maybe we should just leave him alone, and I was like, yeah, leave him alone, because you're probably going to find something you didn't want to find.
Speaker 1Eventually.
Speaker 2Talking about an adult man that goes to a gym once a month to fly a plane. There's something there. I don't know if it's going to be that bad, but there's something.
Speaker 1So the love letter to Burbank is real. I mean, I have to say I was just so raw because I do love the dirtiness of LA Bob's Big.
Speaker 2Boy. On a Friday, all the guys bring their old cars. When David Lynch died, the Big Boy statue at the Toluca Lake Bob's Big Boy turned into an ad hoc David Lynch tribute shrine. Like Boz Big Boy turned into an ad hoc David Lynch like tribute shrine and all these people just notes and gifts and pie. It was amazing Because he used to go there for seven years. He would go sit at the counter at Boz Big Boy and get a cup of coffee and a chocolate milkshake while he was like working on whatever he was working on and that was his break.
Speaker 1And then he said he read the ingredients to the milkshake and he never went again.
Speaker 2He goes ingredients to the milkshake and he never went.
Speaker 1Again he goes. I read the ingredients.
Speaker 2There was not a natural thing in that fucker he stopped going black coffee and a milkshake, so.
Speaker 1So this was my thing with you, though. When we started hanging out quarter life days with mahander and stuff, I was like I was jealous because I was 27 and I was just like I want everything in my system. And I was like but this man can just wander through the Grove mall for hours and be like, are we hungry? And it's like, and then we're going to just mosey on over to the cheesecake factory. Well, you get the buzzer, because the wait's usually an hour.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's an hour, so then you cruise the mall.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you cruise the mall. Yeah, and you cruise the mall while you wait for your cheesecake.
Speaker 2I love looking at people and how they behave so the grove is a real I've been in the grove in years too crowded. But you go to a mall you get to see a real cross-section of society yes, you do.
Speaker 1What do you ever do? Do you have a mall set a mall bits or stuff? Not anymore, anymore, I know I have, I've tried to wrap.
Speaker 2To be honest, I kind of can't wrap my head around it because in my mind it lives in such a large place in my heart. I'd have to do a special.
Speaker 1Maybe you would do a heart thing Like the Neil Brennan thing.
AI, Technology, and the Future
Speaker 2I love malls. I love a mall. I love the mall A lot Because when I was a kid that's where you went. That was the only place you could find cool shit In. You know, locker Center only had one good clothing store, miller's Outpost, and all that was to get TNC surf shirts and Maui and Sun shirts. But once you had those you had to go to Glendale Galleria to try to find a cool hoodie or baggy jeans. Although what we did was we'd go to Ross, buy 42 waist pants, cut the bottom off. Then Tron, our Vietnamese friend, would cut the seam on the inner and the inside seam of the pants and sew in a triangle so they'd be flared all the way down, because flared jeans cost $100 in 1996. Or no, 1992, sorry, and we couldn't afford that shit.
Speaker 1No, but Tron could sew like a motherfucker Very stereotypical, incredible sewer yeah.
Speaker 2His brother Min, was one of the best dancers in all of LA.
Speaker 1I remember when I first saw you dance I couldn't fucking believe it's a shocker. Because you hadn't moved. No, no, you wouldn't a finger. Like, yeah, you guys don't know this, because there's this audio like kevin doesn't move like he just like will stand there in the mall and just like stand, I'm a, I'm a still person, so still.
Speaker 2And then you started doing hip hop get me at a wedding, I will burn that shit. What's?
Speaker 1that thing. It makes me cry laugh watching.
Speaker 2You do very good hip hop, I mean I really love. The first culture that I was ever into was graffiti culture, like B-boy breakdancing culture.
Speaker 1Because I was.
Speaker 2I don't know how old I was I was probably about five or six years old and I saw the movie Beat Street and it exploded my brain. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe A how cool graffiti was and how cool breakdancing was.
Speaker 1I couldn't handle it.
Speaker 2I immediately begged my parents to buy me fat laces and like.
Speaker 1What are fat laces? They're thicker shoelaces that you put. Oh, literally fat laces.
Speaker 2Fat laces for, and I wanted suede pumas, just like the guys in the movie. I couldn't understand how everyone at school wasn't talking about Beat Street.
Speaker 1How annoying were your parents by your obsessions. Were they into them? Would they honor them? I was generally ignored by them, generally ignored by your parents. They were busy people, busy, hardworking.
Speaker 2I was a latchkey kid you were a total latchkey, yeah so like they were, they were, they would buy me what I asked for, because they didn't ask for a ton uh-huh and long well, also once your parents get divorced oh yeah, you get a lot more shit.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, because it gets a little competitive. Yeah, yeah, but so they were. They were generally encouraging that stuff okay, I also didn't ask for much to be honest. Thank God, this just popped into my head. Where is the world going culture-wise? What are the things that you're noticing now? I remember when we were both like are we ever going to work again? And you were like they're starting to like white men again.
Speaker 2Well, I don't know that they're starting to like us, but demographically, the white dollar has reared its angry head again. Yes, I mean, if you look, there's definitely been a shift in popular stand-up towards a more how you would say edgy white dude, yeah, yeah. Some call them edgelords. I don't really fall into that category but it's definitely popular with a lot of my friends who are.
Speaker 1Would Shane Gillis be in that?
Speaker 2You know, I think Shane Gillis gets painted with that brush in the wrong way.
Speaker 1I think he's.
Speaker 2Shane Gillis. I find the bits I've seen of his I haven't seen his whole act or anything they're really I find the way he thinks really fascinating. He's really smart. Yeah, he seems really really smart and I really let his takes on things I find really kind of measured and interesting and surprising yeah and I kind of really like the fact that they kind of come through this athletic kind of I hate the word bro but like he's definitely a guy that enjoys sports and and football and beer.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's like, he's like a. He's like an athletic philosopher in a weird way. I find his takes on things really interesting.
Speaker 1I agree, but again I think that similar to you is.
Speaker 2He has this exposure to people that suffer from autism.
Speaker 1And Down Syndrome in the family. Sorry Down Syndrome.
Speaker 2So he has this worldview that may be different, of a guy who obviously is interested in people that are at the peak of like physical ability, but he's also seen the complete, maybe the opposite of that, with someone who, out of no fault of their own, has been saddled with a physical reality that keeps them from achieving certain things or being able to do certain things. So it's this real interesting dichotomy of his worldview yeah so I don't really put it.
Speaker 2I he's definitely. He lives in Austin and performs at the Mothership with all the other dudes that I know from the store, but I don't really find him that right wing.
Speaker 1Well, the edgelord that I think I saw in person, that I found incredibly off-putting and I didn't like him, was that dude who hosts the biggest oh Tony. Yeah, tony Hainsworth. Who hosts the biggest oh Tony? Yeah, tony Henscliff.
Speaker 2Yeah, Tony's polarizing Again, I've known.
Speaker 1Tony, you like Tony?
Speaker 2I've known Tony 20 years. I don't know that we agree on everything, but I will say this when it comes to joke-writing ability on a roast joke, Tony's a fucking beast.
Speaker 1Yeah, he can roast.
Speaker 2And Tony Henscliff. A lot of comics say like, say like, I make fun about it tony doesn't kill. Tony is the show tony doesn't give a shit about anything but the quality of a joke uh-huh, tony is a slave to jokes. Yeah, all he cares about, in my opinion, is jokes, and how good the joke is, he does not give a fuck who it offends, who it's for. That kid cares about jokes and joke writing, and that is that's why a lot of stand-ups don't have a problem with them.
Speaker 1Is that really the ultimate respect that the high-level people have?
Speaker 2It's just like If you're a great joke writer. I don't necessarily, because the truth is that's how you can tell an offensive joke and have it not really bother people.
Speaker 1If the joke is good.
Speaker 2Bill Burr does this all the time Because Bill Burr is one of the greatest joke writers of all time Jezelnik does this all the time? If you ask any stand-up, is anything off-limits? The truth is no, but it has to be funny enough. It's off-limits if you write a shitty joke. Because then you're just trading on the offensive part of it.
Speaker 2You're not actually coming up with a good take on it, whereas if you're a great joke writer, like Jeselnik or Neil or someone like that, you can tell a joke that or Chappelle someone like that. You can get into a subject that would normally be offensive and find a way to find humor in it in a way that doesn't bother people. That's the thing. So when Shane tells a joke about Down Syndrome or he has, the joke I really liked was he was talking about like the taliban and how he related to them, because when they would blow something up they'd be like stoked he's like that's how I would react.
Speaker 1He's like I'd be so surprised. I did it right and he's like.
Speaker 2He's like you watch marines. They're just like they blow up a whole town and they're just like uh, roger, and they're just like.
Speaker 1It's fucking terrifying they're just like uh target like it's so much scarier and I was like that's a really good take, it's a really interesting take on blowing people to smithereens which should be the ultimate third rail.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, you know, and so I. It's fascinating I you know also, we live in a culture where I hate the term. The term cancel culture is silly because it also doesn't exist, if you and I got canceled tomorrow. We'd have better stand up careers the next day. But you have to remember that outrage is monetized, so what you're seeing isn't essentially necessarily people being really angry and upset and hurt. You can get more attention from someone being upset than you can from something good happening yes, that's why the, the.
Speaker 2The heartwarming story on the news is the end, when no one gives a shit no, they're done, those shows those shows that that sell.
Speaker 1I love pbs a lot but the ratings are low, very because people don't.
Speaker 2People want to watch stuff that scares them or they want to be aware of the stuff they should be scared of yes so you're? Wow. It seems like everyone's so angry and offended when you go into do stand-up in the country. It's not really like that, because that's mostly just giant media conglomerates selling clicks and that they can monetize by selling those clicks to advertisers that's what you're seeing, yeah and so that's why there's that culture of this stand-up.
Speaker 2This stand-up's mad at this stand-up. These people are mad. They're just selling views. The internet has made it so the most valuable thing to advertisers is our behaviors, and so they're just trying to track behaviors and then try to sell you. If, if you click on an article that's tony henchcliffe's an offensive comedian, then they know that maybe send you tickets to a female comedian who's popular on the coast yeah, it's just that, yeah, and once you realize, it's just marketing. It kind of takes the teeth out of a lot of it.
Speaker 1It does I when it comes to writing roast jokes.
Speaker 2Fine, there are few people as good as tony yeah, yeah he's, he's dark.
Speaker 2He was so dark and he was so angry and it was so lethal yeah you know, and there was well his jokes are genuinely mean-spirited yeah, they're mean, but when a mean, when a truly mean-spirited joke is good yeah you get a laugh that comes from the worst memories, it's some of the worst memories in your life come ripping out of your esophagus and now there's a little bit less of them that live inside your heart oh, that's an interesting take there's something therapy when you laugh at.
Speaker 2Okay, one day god forbid, hopefully in a long time your dad's gonna die. Yeah, right, then you're gonna hear a dead dad joke that's going to make you laugh so hard it's going to take some of the sting out of your dad being dead.
Speaker 1Yes, Like that is.
Speaker 2It's cliche that laughter is the best medicine, but being able to laugh at something that is so horrific, it takes the edge off. I agree, and it connects you to all the other people that have been through it.
Speaker 1Yeah, all of us have bodies.
Speaker 2You know what I mean All of us have bodies. You know what I mean Meat suits. Everybody's got a bunch of dead bodies in their brain because of all the people that have died, and when you can relate to that, like Whitney's parents are dead, so are mine, and some will just be like look at this asshole with an alive mom, like, oh, your life's hard with your alive mom. You don't know anything Until you've watched your mom take her last breath.
Speaker 1Don't talk to me about how much my car financing should be buddy, you and Whitney on the road, yeah, just like. Oh, that's so cute yeah.
Speaker 2I mean Whitney's, one of the darkest people ever.
Returning to Soul-Level Work
Speaker 1I know I am feeling a dream. We played a married couple on some like improv-y show together and she was an I, just I didn't even talk. Oh, whitney's a beast. Oh, show together. And she was an I just I didn't even talk. Oh, whitney's a beast. Oh, my god, she improvised so, so hard.
Speaker 2I was just like I'm gonna be the silent husband people need to. I don't know that people understand how hard that lady murders. And you want to talk about a voracious. When I've worked on roasts with her dude, that lady can. Her joke writing ability is mind-boggling.
Speaker 1Yeah, Just hammers I'm doing. You know I'm six months into this podcast and six months into a college try on stand-up, you know, and I was going to show you my best set that I've done, but we don't have time.
Speaker 2I'm good.
Speaker 1I knew that was going to be the response. I can just watch a kid trip down some stairs but um, yeah, no, and I, but I, I, I'm like my existential crisis truly is just like my brain doesn't write jokes like it. Just you have to train it. I know, I am, I'm trying, dude, I'm trying to train it months it took me.
Speaker 2I didn't get good at writing jokes till like an hour ago like it's very hard.
Speaker 1Where is your stand-up going? Like, where do you, do you have?
Speaker 2no goals, you have no goals. My goal in stand-up is to make, is to make people laugh with jokes I write. I'm very interested in just trying to see if my the ideas I think will be funny will be funny to other people.
Speaker 1And so when you go to the new stuff with Neil Neil's not here, but when you guys do those nights on new stuff, is that the most exciting thing you do. It's also the most torture. Because, I know it's probably not going to work. So you're nervous before? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2That's the most nervous I get is those shows, because we used to do them on Sundays and then Neil goes. We have to pick a different day. This is ruining my weekends. Does.
Speaker 1Neil get nervous.
Speaker 2I mean, I wouldn't call it nervous, but you just know.
Speaker 1How many people are there I?
Speaker 2don't know, 60? It's a small place. Okay, so you know most of it. I'm about to go out there and eat my own ass and I'm a grown man. I'm 20 years grown I'm dying, like I'm closer to a senior discount than I am. Like much farther from the age you need to rent a car. You know what I mean, like I'm old you're old and you're still up there just fucking eating your ass with an idea you thought of on the shitter. Like it's weird.
Speaker 2It is so weird there's an onyx, there's more, I would say 10 of the time, when I'm about to go on stage and someone says, give it up for this next guy, kevin chrissy, I think to myself, why would you say that name?
Speaker 1why is?
Speaker 2that human being going. If you know me and you know, if you saw me as a kid, you'd be like why did he say kevin?
Speaker 1it's baffling. Why did?
Speaker 2kevin start doing stand-up. I'll be on stage and I'll think why is Kevin doing stand-up? While I'm saying a joke, I mostly think about my outfit and how I regret it. But, there'll be moments where I've done a joke. I've done so many times that I'm thinking about other things.
Speaker 1And I'll think why is Kevin here?
Speaker 2Why is Kevin Christie a stand-up comedian?
Speaker 1It's so weird. That's what I'm running into. I don't like saying the same thing again.
Speaker 2There are lots of stand-ups, like you.
Speaker 1What do I?
Speaker 2do, you could get really good at crowd work. There's a comic named Rick Ingram who I think, pound for pound is maybe the funniest person at the comedy store. Rick is so funny. It's a comic named Rick Ingram who I think, pound for pound, is maybe the funniest person at the comedy store.
Speaker 1Okay, rick is so funny, it's shocking.
Speaker 2And he, when he first started he shut the store and he was trying to materialize. He just hated it. He hated his material, he hated doing it over and over. So he started doing crowd work and he's one of the best crowd work comics in the world. Really Like he, it's just he.
Speaker 1Does he have a file for every single situation that can rise? Kind of he's kind, but he also he does.
Speaker 2he comes up with genuinely new shit all the time, Wow.
Speaker 1Reactions to people yeah.
Speaker 2And but. I mean, I remember when he first started doing it he would murder so hard. There was this booker named Tommy, the old booker, tommy would go. I'm going to put you after rick because you calm them back down that's not nice.
Speaker 1Rick would kill so hard.
Speaker 2You would look like such a boring comedy robot with your old okay, so what if I don't want to do crowd work? Uh, then you I mean dude to do new jokes a lot yeah, you're just gonna bomb.
Speaker 1Your bomb all the time, or you? Just get so good at writing jokes that I'd say neil's new jokes do better than most people's regular jokes did you ever read a joke writing book? No, never have. I don't know that there's a good one. I hear there are, but it's like does that, does that?
Speaker 2structure apply to your heart because, dude, it's.
Speaker 1So what do you think?
Speaker 2the key to the joke writing is what is the word economy, word, economy word economy and understanding how you come across, and don't ever expect the audience to see something in you that you don't show them. That's true of acting, too right you need to sell the joke, tell the joke, sell the joke and get your words right what is sell the joke? Sell it with your eyes and your face Act.
Speaker 1Yeah, act Acting.
Speaker 2Or don't act. Actually feel it, yeah, say the words, think thoughts.
Speaker 1Live it, live it, it's acting.
Speaker 2Try to get as close yeah, try to get as close to the feeling of the thing.
Speaker 1This is the first time saying it, yeah.
Speaker 2Try to get to how you actually feel about the thing you're saying and they'll feel it with you humans have these tuning forks in their heart.
Speaker 1That's the book I read and this is. I've seen it when I listen back. When you're in, when you're connected to the stuff, whether you're in disgust or whether you're excited or you're just like this is so weird or stupid and you're feeling those things yeah, that's what sells it. Otherwise, you're just a robot. Yeah, you're just.
Speaker 2This is why I you know obviously. You asked me where I think society is going and everyone's thinking about artificial intelligence is. I don't worry about it as much as I maybe did, because I think it will force people, especially young people, to trust human connection and trust human interaction.
Speaker 1Old people go to the human connection and trust human interaction.
Speaker 2Old people go to the bank to do things because they don't trust the Internet. Right, Right, Imagine how untrustworthy the Internet's about to get. I may drive to like San Diego to pay my mortgage in person every night, Because how do I fucking know? Ai didn't hack the website.
Speaker 1Yeah, and.
Speaker 2I'm sending that money to somewhere else Latvia right You're talking about. That's a cool take there's going to be an internet that's going to be so convincing you're not going to want to trust it at all.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And there's going to be a kind of show business that's like that too. That's going to be made by computers. Yeah, that I think the nice thing about young people is they grew up with a lot of tech. They're so savvy they can smell marketing a mile away. Yeah, so they're a lot of. Them are just going to check out and the way a 25 year old looks at facebook now, I think is the way a lot of people are going to uh view the some of the ai economy that's aimed at entertaining us yes they're gonna be like that's some bullshit, robot crap.
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm gonna go to a live performance of humans to be around. It's like dude. When the Kindle came out they were like, oh, close every bookstore. Every bookstore didn't need to close the giant Barnes Noble that for some reason sold ice cream and tires did but now they're reopening.
Speaker 2They're just smaller because humans need to go be around other humans. Yeah, we do. I almost think AI if you want to get mystical AI was sent by the universe to kill tech work, because tech work is inherently soulless. Aha, People don't feel good about designing an app. They just want the money when it sells.
Speaker 1Yes, I see tech.
Speaker 2People around my neighborhood walking with their children. They look like shells.
Speaker 2Miserable. They just have this emptiness to them. So perhaps AI is killing the soul of this work of being a online marketing synergistic consultant. What the fuck is that? What do you have to say about yourself in 40 years, when you retire? What did you do? You're like, I don't know. I answered 75 emails a day and I cc'd 17,000 people, and then I went to a meeting about a meeting. So I think it may force human beings back into doing things. If you want to know where America's going, look at Japan.
Speaker 2Because they have some of the same tech problems and work, cultural problems we do and a population problem Smaller scale. A lot of young people are going from the cities in small groups but back to like these abandoned small towns in japan. You you're probably aware of this. There's this huge population problem where there's eight million vacant homes in japan wow, you can get one for free wow, and these small towns?
The Future of Entertainment
Speaker 2everyone left to go work in the city so they work. A lot of people are going back and they're starting these little companies that do things like make tea or stuff like that and just simple. They're not trying to get rich, they're just trying to have a life and do like substantial work that feels like something that matters to a area where they appreciate it and that's your life, community and physical objects. It's, it's it's america 150 years ago yeah local like local.
Speaker 2This lady. I watched a tiktok. This lady asked chat gbt to predict what america is going to be like in 15 years or something it was like people are going to have to go back to small community connective businesses and groups because there's going to be this bizarre, you think conglomerates are big. Now, when you completely automate them, they're just going to be selling shit to each other like who knows what it'll be like?
Speaker 2and we may not be even involved, so it's gonna be this local thing. We're like you don't want to go to the robot market no because the robot market sometimes steals your card number and there's no one to call yeah, so you're gonna want to. Even if cash is even a thing, you maybe go trade a guy.
Speaker 1I may trade a painting for tomatoes.
Speaker 1I mean like we don't know, but it'll have to be human to human. I I hope so, and I I mean I don't, who knows? And chat gbt may be right and and obviously we're going to be surprised, no matter what, by the future on some level. Um, but I think stand up to to wrap it up is completely ai proof, even though I find it helpful. I'll do a rant and AI will be like is there anything in here that's worthy of something? And it'll be like this is a cool premise. I'm like you're right, that is kind of a cool premise, think of it as scissors.
Speaker 1Scissors.
Speaker 2That's how my friend when I graduated art school he was kind of my last mentor this brilliant art director named Brett. Shout out Brett mentor, this brilliant art director named brett shut up.
Speaker 1Brett brett no longer alive proudest human ever, raddest human ever uh designed the old, dirty bastard welfare card album cover all the kings of leon covers, all the strokes covers.
Speaker 2He was fucking brilliant and a genius.
Speaker 1He was the best human alive but I was like should I learn?
Speaker 2photoshop and he goes. No, I go. Why, I guess because everyone's going to use it as a shortcut and you'll be one of the guys who doesn't use it and it's just scissors, and I was like scissors.
Speaker 1You're right, these things are just tools.
Speaker 2Granted this one coming towards us right now is the scariest tool we've ever seen.
Speaker 1So who knows, because it is wild, the level of sophistication of it is wild.
Speaker 2But, it's mostly going to be used by corporations, and corporations are for everyone. Look at the people to buy vinyl. Look at the people to buy old books. La clothing stickers at new clothing stores are fucked. In Los Angeles, people just want to buy used clothes. Oh, oh everyone because it's cheaper and it's a little bit more unique and you get the activity of hunting it down yeah, the problem with tech people is they mostly spent all their time with tech people.
Speaker 2Those are some extreme inside kids and you're hearing this from a dork Like. Those are people that don't necessarily like to go out in the world and relate to other humans. They think that what everyone wants is to sit in the perfectly manicured apartment and everything's mechanized and it's this perfect, like technical situation where you don't have to think about anything and do anything.
Speaker 1They forget that there's swaths of humans that love doing stuff and going outside. Think of the state of colorado for instance.
Speaker 2Yes, those people love to hike and then sew a thing. And sew a patch on their shirt and then talk about it and sit outside and be around other humans on mushrooms yeah, god bless, there's a lot of people like that. Yeah, and those people aren't going to want to live in the robot world.
Speaker 2They're going to find it scary and insulting, and so there may be a whole new entertainment industry. That's like fucking vaudeville. Yeah, I was watching the stage play of Oklahoma the other day. Hugh Jackman's in it, by the way, that motherfucker is so mint.
Speaker 1He was born like a royal straight flush.
Speaker 2He was born to perform. He can sing, dance. He's a brilliant actor.
Speaker 1He's beautiful, he's tall.
Speaker 2He's ripped enough to play fucking.
Speaker 1Wolverine so.
Speaker 2I'm watching Oklahoma. He's amazing, but I was like this may be what show business is like. Because AI is going to be able to build every prop in every environment, people are still probably gonna want to watch human actors, because part of celebrity is you like watching a human become famous and rich.
Speaker 2it inspires you to maybe try to do something in your own life, right I think, there's a possibility that actors, if you want to be an actor, you're gonna have to train to be on a television show, like it's a play, where you do two weeks of rehearsal and everyone comes in and fucking hammers it in two days because the stage is still ten thousand dollars a day, it's green room and then you, you do your performance like a play, you leave and then a bunch of ai specialists build the entire thing around you after the fact all the cars, all the sets, all the worlds, all the everything.
Speaker 2You just come in wardrobe and you act like you're in a green screen yeah in a green room or whatever an AI room is going to look like, and then everything is built around you. Oh, that's interesting, but you'll still have to be good actors who can honestly memorize their performances like a play. That would be cool.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'd be super down for that.
Speaker 2It'd.
Speaker 1You are on no caffeine right now. Right, I had coffee this morning, but again, my dog woke me up at 6.30.
Speaker 2But you just went on a 15-minute absolute heater and you are not on any. I don't get talked to or listened to in a way that you'd hope.
Speaker 1Are you getting the attention you need? You're a married man.
Speaker 2I've been with a woman a long time, marcel. Marcel Shout out, marcel, she's a queen.
Speaker 1Absolute, marcel.
Speaker 2Shout out, marcel, she's a queen, absolutely the queen, queen, marcel, she's the best, but as you know, as an entertaining man You're a very funny guy.
Speaker 1We both are funny people.
Speaker 2Eventually, you just stop making him laugh. Marcel's not laughing at you, she makes me laugh More than I make her laugh. Yeah, at this point.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's true, mahander's just not that charmed by me anymore.
Speaker 2Yeah, we more become a guy who works there, and so if I start going, if I started going on this rant in the same room as her, she's going to have to stop me, just for the sake of the health of our relationship. Yeah, she'd probably leave she'd walk out, she'd be like, keep going the minute you started talking about vaudeville.
Speaker 1She was out.
Speaker 2Yeah, I say a lot of words. People are like, oh boy, that's not a closer, he's starting a new thing.
Speaker 1No, but I find I love your brain. It's a beautiful brain, thank you. You have a beautiful soul and I think ultimately, if we were to wrap it all up, you are deeply connected to soul level activities and tech and all that stuff is just feels very soulless and there's so much in the world that people are doing. I have a bit that I'm working on where I see a little infant baby and I'm like you, beautiful soul, are going to be the executive assistant for some degenerate, like that's going to be your life's purpose.
Speaker 2How do we get a USB in your ass?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's basically just like it's a dark look at what humans are doing.
Speaker 2That's what I mean. Like maybe AI is just going to take that out of society. Like I, when you walked up I told you I'd bought a chainsaw, right yeah, you were psyched on that and I trimmed some trees in my yard. Feels good.
Speaker 2Let me tell you about the feeling it gives you yeah, that kind of work with your hands or I've been going down a rabbit hole recently of japanese bakeries and this one lady it's her, her grandfather built it for it's like 40 square feet, it's just her and she makes enough pastries for this small town every day. Everyone fucking loves it. What a beautiful life.
Speaker 1What a beautiful.
Speaker 2That's what I think. That's where I think work is going. I think, people are going to find things they do, even being like plumbers, electricians, things like that. Where you're like I help people with their house, that's like very valid work.
Speaker 1I had an electrician show up and I talked to them for 30 minutes because I was like I think I want my kids like to not go to college and just become electricians. What are you?
Speaker 2unless if you want to go to college for art school, I think I think art school is valid totally, even though you can learn. There's everything out there, but other artists helping you it speeds up the process like crazy.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Being a musician, things like that. Outside of the arts, business like business is going to change at a pace we can't actually imagine Medicine.
Speaker 1Obviously Doctors need to go to college Surgeons but as far as diagnostic doctors, that's a wrap dog.
Speaker 2That's a wrap, you get a full-body CAT scan and throw it in the AI machine. They'll tell you which surgeon to go to.
Speaker 1I think nurses and stuff. You should be able to go work in a hospital when you're 14, 15.
Speaker 2Nurses will still be a thing, because when you're in a hospital, you'll need a human to administer shit.
Speaker 1No, yeah, but what I'm saying is the training. If you know, you want to be a nurse, like Well as I'm an artist, right. If I had been born 300 years ago at about age six?
Speaker 2someone would have realized I could draw really well and I would have gone into an apprenticeship with another artist. I would have mixed their paint, I would have cleaned brushes and then, after two years, I would have been allowed to learn to draw a foot.
Speaker 1That's what I want to go back to. It may get there.
Speaker 2I hope so Because, especially if this tariff situation sticks and we become a nation that is trying to subsist on its own manufacturing. The prices of things are going to go up, which is what it was like maybe 100 years ago, in the 1800s, where you bought one pair of very well-made pants and those were your pants, by the way—. And you took care of them. Youmade pants and those were your pants, by the way and you took care of them. You had a jacket, you had a suit. You didn't.
Speaker 1Chelsea Peretti said something.
Speaker 2Chelsea Peretti, by the way, one of the funniest humans on the planet Shout out Chelsea Peretti, One of the best comedy writers ever, but she was like a T-shirt shouldn't cost $2. If your t-shirt costs $2, that's bad, Really bad. That's really bad for someone not here in front of you, but in another country. That's really bad for someone. And we got used to this really cheap goods, really cheap food, really cheap everything except gas. And it's not. I think that's what will be.
Speaker 2You don't need okay. When I was about 28 years old, I cleaned out a closet. My now ex-wife cleaned out a closet.
Speaker 1She goes do you know how many black t-shirts you have? I go. No, she goes. You have 57.
Speaker 2I was like you're joking, I have 57 black skateboards, she goes. Yeah, I made friends with a guy who had a skate shop. I'd walk in and be like, dude, we're going to sell shit today and I'd buy you I didn't need.
Speaker 1You don't need that stuff no, and you you really don't need stuff you know how good you feel when you clean out your closet.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, like a 20 pound shit dude, it's because you don't need you don't need. It's all holding us down, so there may be a fundamental intellectual vibe shift in how we relate to objects and products and things we need I hope so, and as someone with kids, emotional layaway dog.
Speaker 1The education system needs a giant retooling the trade school stuff.
Speaker 2I think my guilt is that I'm just sending my kids it's free babysitting the first five years of your education should be teaching kids how to be good people and treat other people with respect.
Speaker 1They do that pretty well After that should be compound interest.
Speaker 2How to do your taxes, understanding interest. How to do your taxes understanding finance, realizing what the how, how, like money, and then figuring out what you like doing to then make money that you then do the right thing with yeah how credit card debt fucks you like things like that, yeah, yeah god bless learning about mesopotamia. You don't find it interesting until you're in your mid-40s, like if you're like hey, this is a mesopotamia documentary. Like sign me up, where's the popcorn? I'm old and sad, but they hammer you with that shit in eighth grade.
Speaker 1It's awful. I was an eighth grader surrounded by eighth grade girls.
Speaker 2You want me to think about cuneiform, Are you ridiculous dude?
Speaker 1It's so stupid. Will you come back on the pod anytime? I won't go to maine, yeah, yeah, but we'll just do it over the internet you got all this equipment, dude, you're locked and loaded I'm not gonna do a podcast.
Speaker 2This is it I'm gonna.
Speaker 1I'm gonna restart my sticker show, but okay, okay, you do a sticker show, but I want to bring you back on because we could talk forever, sure, um, but I love you I love you too.
Speaker 2it was so nice to see you. Can you guys move back? Is that a thing? Is it possible? If you get this job?
Speaker 1Yeah, but guess where this job shoots Vancouver, Atlanta, Dude. One final thing the vibe shift in LA. Can you imagine if all the people left that couldn't handle it, and now you have the people who are in the grit, and then all production came back and this place could be the sexy Hollywood place. We'd all take pay cuts.
Speaker 2Hey, if you're listening, industry we'd all work for less if you just let us work.
Speaker 1Come back to.
Speaker 2LA. The secret to every actor in the world is all we really want to do is work. We want to be on a set because again it's a communal team experience 100%.
Speaker 1You want to be on a set because, again, it's a communal team experience 100.
Speaker 2You're high-fiving the camera guy when you get, when it's a difficult shot and you get your line right and the camera moves right and it looks cool. You're, you're a part of it. You just scored a touchdown.
Speaker 1Special team score the oldest, the older I get because I've been working. We both work. 20 years, yeah, or over 20 years. The every time I'm on set, the older I I get my mood. I'm like manic, I'm so happy, I realize.
Speaker 2I used to notice that with older actors. All they wanted to do was fucking nail it.
Speaker 1Nail it hang.
Speaker 2None of the complaining, just to kick it and doing your job well.
Speaker 1Doing your job well.
Speaker 2Quality. I love you. I think there'll be a something I think, something will thing I love you.
Speaker 1I think there'll be a something. Whatever Be a what, I think something will change. I hope Come back, please. Just for those who don't know, there is nothing shooting in LA for now.
Speaker 2There is, but it's quite small, matlock 50%.
Speaker 1Matlock is shooting here Because Kathy Bates made that her in her contract. All right book boy. All In her contract, all right book boy, all the Ryan Murphy shows. By the way, it is Wednesday, april 30th and this podcast will be coming out in six hours and will function as my suicide note. Bye, thank you.