The Power of Generalists with Siobhán O'Riordan

In this episode of Lead and Live Well, Erin Cox and Scott Knox interview Siobhán O'Riordan, a former teacher turned Gallup-certified CliftonStrengths coach and social sector consultant. Siobhán shares her career journey, highlighting pivotal moments influenced by both intention and chance. Ever an educator, Siobhán offers practical advice on understanding and leveraging your strengths, how reflection and feedback can fuel personal and professional growth, and strategies to articulate your multi-faceted skills. This episode - and much of Siobhán’s work - will be particularly intriguing for our listeners who are “generalists,” which Siobhán describes as follows:

“A generalist’s expertise is intentionally broad; they excel at understanding an organization as a whole entity, identifying and filling gaps, and seizing opportunities to catalyze and champion new projects. Generalists are both interested in figuring out complex problems and finding ways in which they can seed solutions and help the team meet the resulting challenges.”

Join Scott, Erin, and Siobhán - all Generalists themselves - for this enlightening conversation!

Curious to know more about Generalists? Read the post that started Erin and Scott on this conversation. Curious about how to further define your value as a Generalist, this post will help. And this post provides steps to take for those who struggle with imposter syndrome, a frequent challenge for Generalists.

Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to the Lead and Live Well Podcast
• 1:00 Meet Siobhan O'Riordan: From Teacher to Social Sector Consultant
• 1:33 Siobhan's Career Journey: Chance and Choice
• 6:28 Teaching in Nepal: A Transformative Experience
• 15:01 Embracing Strengths: Siobhan's Coaching Philosophy
• 21:36 Exploring the Balance of Talents
• 22:20 The Power of Intention and Feedback
• 24:52 Embracing Vulnerability and Putting It Out There
• 30:21 Understanding the Role of Generalists
• 37:07 Finding the Fit and Leveraging Talents

Transcript

Erin: Welcome to the Lead and Live Well podcast. My name is Erin Cox, and I'm thrilled to be here with my co host Scott Knox. On the Lead and Live Well podcast. We sit down with leaders in the social impact world to learn about their leadership journeys. We talk about their strengths and passions, the transitions they have made in their career, and how they have crafted their own paths to leadership.

Our goal is to highlight a diverse array of leaders and journeys, so that our listeners learn from relatable and compelling examples of what it means to lead and live well. 

Hey, Scotty.

Scott: Hey Erin,

Erin: How you doing today?

Scott: I'm doing great. We have a fantastic guest with us.

Erin: It is so, so true. 

I don't actually know if it's possible to be more excited than I am for our chat with our guest today. So let me take a quick moment to introduce her and we'll dive right into what I know will promise to be an entertaining and enlightening conversation. So it's my true pleasure to welcome Siobhan O'Riordan to the Lead and Live Well podcast today. Once a teacher, now a Gallup certified CliftonStrengths coach and social sector consultant, Siobhan is valued by her clients for insights, collaboration, and enthusiastic support during times of growth and change. Welcome Siobhan.

Siobhan: It's lovely to be here with you both. Thank you.

Erin: Thank you so much for sharing this time with us. We're really excited for the conversation.

Scott: Really excited.

Siobhan: As am I. 

Erin: Well, we're going to jump right in and I think it would be helpful, Siobhan, if we could first off by just getting grounded in your career journey So walk us through steps you've taken as you've built your career in the social impact sector, and in particular, would love it if you could dig into moments that were either made by chance or intention.

Just curious for you to kind of explore that dynamic as you walk us through your journey so far. 

Siobhan: yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. So what was intentional and, and and, and what, you know, chance might be luck, right you know, right place, right time and maybe willingness to take a risk. So I always start with my name. And the reason I start with my name is not living in Ireland, but living in this country, my name is not one that when people see the spelling of that they know the pronunciation of.

And so while this name was given to me what the name has given me is from a very young age. I learned, for better or worse, that adults did not know everything. So my kindergarten teacher couldn't say my name and called me Siobhan. and I knew right then and there that I knew something that a grown up didn't know.

I would say, you know, some people might say that's my personality also. Maybe it's not the name but it's, it's been formative. And the other formative sort of two things that happened before my career in the social impact space was first attending an all girls school and I think it was less about being an all girls school and more about being a place that really focused and supported learning. And was absent, I think, of some of the social intrigue that would happen at a co-ed school, and then, of course, the university that I went to which definitely informed my choice in career, and that being Tufts. So straight out of Tufts, my first job was actually on a campaign and this is a chance.

This is in the Chance Category and I worked on, I'm dating myself here, the Dukakis campaign, 1988. And I had grown up in Brookline, which of course was Governor Dukakis's hometown, and I knew his kids. And my roommates from college also worked on the campaign. So it was a wildly formative time, and I encourage people if they have an opportunity to work on something like a campaign there was so much freedom to try and learn because you had a short amount of time, you had a really big goal, and it demanded a need to just sort of try things, be scrappy, there were no wrong answers. But you had to try quickly, learn quickly, abandon quickly. But really kind of stayed focused on what the bigger picture was. After that, I ended up again through chance. I had just finished the campaign in November and December was at a Dinner party and somebody said, Well, what would you like to do?

And I had studied history and I said, Oh, I'd love to be a history teacher. And she said, That's so weird. Our history teacher just quit. I know, like in December. Yeah. Yeah. Right before Christmas. So the next day I went to the Cambridge School of Weston, which has a really unique learning model and talked to the head of the history department and then found myself teaching history the following spring.

what I really learned there as a teacher in this, you know, again, new formative experience was just how important it was to connect particularly with young people but really in a way to make the case of why what I was teaching about or why history or why the past really mattered and how to communicate ideas and information in a way that's interesting and relevant and in the case of history alive. so I did that. And then that was for a semester. And then I thought, well, it was really intense. I'm like, let me think about this a little bit. I'm not sure I want to go right into this kind of teaching. And then my roommate at the time, her company, you know, was in the computer industry as they called it then was tech and tech PR.

And I ended up working there for a year. And had a totally different sort of office experience. And that was fun and I would commute to work in a car. Nine to five, sit at a desk, go running at lunch. You know, we would all get our lunch together at the local lunch place. And that was a ton of fun.

And I did realize when I was in the office environment kind of doing PR and tech, I was like, this is not for me. I think being a teacher is for me. So I went back and I got my master's of arts and teaching at Tufts, which is again, a choice. 

A friend of mine from growing up had been teaching internationally and he said, you know, you should try it. You know if you're interested and he kind of coached me through the interview process and I think this is just possibly the luckiest thing that ever happened to me was I got a job teaching history at the Lincoln School in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Scott: Wow.

Siobhan: know, and it's as good as you think it is. It's even more amazing than it was. It was so cool. It was so amazing. And it was amazing for a bunch of reasons. I'd had that early teaching experience which was intense and I learned a ton. And then I was in this new environment that had an incredible principal who I'm still close with.

Paul Poor who was a fabulous boss to an incredible team of colleagues, right? So these are all the ingredients, right? To success, get yourself a great boss,

Scott: Yes.

Siobhan: some fantastic colleagues, right? and it was an environment where people really put community first, right? So we really, the school was a community.

We talked about it that way. The kids felt that, the teachers felt that. So when you're in a community, you're building together. And a lot of these students had lived in other places all over the world and it was either like you made it at school or, you know, there's nothing else outside.

There wasn't like another school to go to unless you spoke Nepali, you know there was no, or you go to boarding school, right? So if you wanted to be there, and so the students in particular really showed up in, community together and, and really made it, you know easy and fun. I would say for me as a teacher and for all of us. Not that we didn't have our moments, not that we didn't have our moments but I learned a lot and I'm very rooted in what the best of teaching can be, right?

Which is very much around connecting around learning. And communicating what's important, and my coaching is very much informed by this, right, because, you know, I, it's seeing and growing people into their potential. I was there for four years, and then it was, I, you know, I thought if I don't leave, I won't leave.

And so and so I was like, oh, you know, and I wasn't sure that was the path I wanted to take. So, I decided to come back to the States. And this is a long preamble. and then this goes pretty quickly. Then this is when I become official in the social impact space. But yet again, by chance so my roommate from college is Vanessa Kirsch and she was supposed to come over to my apartment for dinner and she was late and she wasn't just like a little late.

She was like 2 hours late, 3 hours late, but she comes in and she says I'm really sorry. I'm late. But you know, we lost someone that was supposed to work with us today, had to move on for others, for family reasons and we're having our first fundraiser.

And then she says, I know I'm not supposed to ask you. She said, would you please come help us? And I was like, you know, this is not a good idea. Friends should not work for friends, right? And so I said, all right. But I had nothing. I was like, I just come, you know, from living on, you know, in a mountain valley halfway across the world.

What did I think? You know, I didn't know what philanthropy was. There are a lot of things I didn't know. and I said, okay, I said, but we need to have an agreement. if it's not working, right? We have to value friendship.

Erin: hmm.

Scott: Mm 

Siobhan: Do we do that? So we said we would leave each other a note, you know, if it wasn't going to work out.

Now thankfully never had to do that. So but, you know, I would still love, like, and if you have ideas about what's the best way to work with friends and then, you know, having, having one of 

Erin: Yeah. 

Siobhan: Conversations never had to have it. So 

Erin: Friends would never be able to read my handwriting, so it just wouldn't go through. They'd be like,

Scott: The note 

Erin: This Note. What did you want to say? Oh, never mind.

Siobhan: Nevermind. It's all good. It's all

Erin: It's all good.

Siobhan: Yeah. Yeah. And so I really got my start at New Profit, which is a really funny place to start. Cause you're starting really, it was at the very beginning. Um, that's 25 years ago and it was a relatively new concept. Vanessa and Kelly were really just doing all the great things that an entrepreneur does, right?

You know, just seizing every moment really leaning into this really big vision and needed help, you know, with their first fundraiser and and first hires and all that kind of stuff. So I stepped in and just did all that. And it was because Vanessa was like, you know how to like, just do stuff.

So you just like, just, just. All the gaps are here. Please figure them out and go fill them. So I did that and that's what and then I moved over. What was then associated with grantmakers and new ventures in philanthropy had something I had this nationwide effort and I ran something called Giving New England and then and these were all choices I made and then paradigm properties was going to do something around.

Nonprofit clients worked with them for a little bit. I ended up moving to Washington, D. C., and then I worked in the foundation world doing a couple of different things. Washington Area Women's Foundation National Park Foundation, which was a fantastic job. Love that place. And then I was at the council and a little bit in between was doing some solopreneur work.

And then I moved back to Boston around 20, I think 16. And really from then really moved into this kind of consulting role. And, you know, I did it, I did it by choice, but I also felt like I didn't have a lot of choices.

Scott: Mm, 

Siobhan: and then I got to work with some great clients. So I helped Kelly again when she started Project Evident and worked with some other clients around strategy work and some talent work and some board work. And leadership work. and I had been on the side throughout this time, like helping people get jobs. And had sort of been cheating, working with CliftonStrengths. , And so I finally just got certified.

Erin: Mm.

Siobhan: In 2020 and went legit and have been now sort of focused on, on coaching. And particularly working with people through and, and organizations and teams through moments of change.

That's the. That's the sticky wicket.

Scott: This is so 

good. 

Erin: We weren't proud alums. We didn't pause enough on the, on the, on the jumbo love. So go jumbos. Sorry Scott. I know 

you're like an, you're some sort of bird, but Yeah. Jumbos in the house here. We, we

Scott: right. Jumbo wannabe. Jumbo wannabe.

Erin: I didn't expect this, but one of the, the ties I hear throughout the, this part of your. The story, Siobhan, is about the importance of putting out what you want. You know, Vanessa put out there what she wanted even though she knew she was not supposed to. You put out there what you wanted when you were like, I'd ideally like to be a history teacher.

Boom. What an incredible coincidence. Chance and choice colliding there. you accepting help, you saying, I want to have this job and accepting help to secure the job teaching in Nepal. I mean, that's, I think there's something really powerful about having the strength and the vision to say, this is what I want and I'm going to put it out there.

And it seems like when you've done it or when people around you have done it, it's really delivered. I think. Hmm. Mm

Siobhan: I tend to be more responsive as a generalist to what other people want, because I have a high ability to, like, meet people's sort of immediate needs, and I'm like, oh, I can figure that out. Hallmark of the generalist, I can figure that out, you know, and, um, so I tend to respond to what other people put out there, but I really thank you for that, Erin. you know, for me, it was more like wondering out loud. I mean, who in December says they want to be a history teacher and then in January is one like, your schools start in September, right?

It, you know, so, so I think I was just sort of like, oh, wouldn't that be wonderful, you know, and I would say it was almost like dreaming aloud rather than like being focused on that's what I want, you know, so but, but it's there. It's there. So I, yeah that's a good– she's a good coach.

 Erin: Well, forgive me while I get verklempt for a moment. So Siobhan, you've mentioned the concept of CliftonStrengths a couple times. Before we move on, just in case anyone's not familiar with that, could you just quickly define that for us?

Siobhan: sure. So CliftonStrengths is out of Gallup, and people might have heard of it as GallupStrengths or CliftonStrengths, and it's the same people who do the polling, actually, but it's a different line of their business. And it's been taken by over 30 million people.

I think it's close to 31. And it is an assessment That takes about 45 minutes. I think it's 74, 76 questions. And it assesses personality traits. And it is strengths based. So the most important thing to know is that it is based on the premise and actually on research done that if you know what you are good at, and you are intentional about using your talents, you can really develop those into strengths.

And so it really is a different way of thinking rather than mitigating you, mitigating your weaknesses and managing your weaknesses and even partnering with others who might compliment your strengths rather than investing all of your time and effort into improving your weaknesses. And so I use it as a tool in my coaching, but I have really used it to better understand my own sort of talents, what I'm good at the kinds of talents I'm not great at and need partners in and then I bring kind of that talent work Into my coaching and help other people find theirs

Erin: Thank you for that. Really, really helpful also to hear how you're applying it in so many ways.

Scott: So as you know, as a follow up in our conversation, Siobhan, I would love to hear, What are the strengths that, that you own as being exceptionally good at? And how did you get good at these, these strengths or these skills? How'd you make these assets yours?

Siobhan: Thank you for that question. I would say I took a lot longer than probably someone should have. And I took the assessment many years ago and then we took it and I think 2019 and maybe I had taken it in 2010. Not much had changed, which is I think the sign of a good assessment. What I have really learned is a lot of the particular talents I have, understanding them and knowing them, I could more intentionally apply them.

And it allowed me to worry less about what I wasn't good at and allowed me to be more intentional about what I was. So a couple of key ones are, I have a number of strategic thinking talents, so I'm really good at making connections, seeing different pathways, patterns. I have a number of sort of High influencing and relational talents that are both about seeing people for who they are. So I've high individualization. That's my number two for people who are tracking. And also have a lot of woo and communication which are talents about kind of influencing other groups of people.

So you know, that's in the strengths language in, in regular normal. English language. I would say I bring a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but particularly to people about people. I am quick, a quick study. I can see patterns quickly. I can learn about people quickly. I can learn about issues enough.

I'm not an expert And I bring an ability to really connect the dots, but I'm particularly good at connecting people with opportunity and helping to also connect individual people to their own potential, and then connect them also, with each other around kind of a shared vision and mission. So I'm good at it, I have high activators. I'm good at activating, catalyzing, you know, kind of moving people forward. This is what I don't, this is what I'm not good at. And I, and I, and I really like value partners who are really good at making sure that there are experts on board with people who are really disciplined.

 I appreciate data. And I was a history teacher. So like, you know, facts matter. To me, but I'm not like the most number driven person. I'm not afraid of numbers. It's just, I just don't spend a lot of time thinking about them. I love people who love to cross the finish line.

Scott: Mm. Mm 

hmm. 

Siobhan: I will, I will get everybody into the starting gate and off to the races. I don't need to be there when they cross the finish line. And I really value people who are people with high discipline. I like people who are in the introverted world, people who are really spending some time thinking through particular risks. I'm like, let's do it, let's do it.

Let's take a chance. This is fun. Like it, that kind of. I love doing that. I need people who are like, you know, maybe the risk is too much.

Scott: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Siobhan: Maybe you don't, you know, move quite as fast. so I would say that's how I sort of think about my particular strengths. And owning them is great, but also knowing the ones that I don't have and reaching out to and partnering with people who do have them.

Scott: I, I, I love, I mean, especially that last point, Siobhan, you know, like it's, it's, you know, it's not only having that self awareness of like, you know, our strengths and, you know, some of the parts of our personalities or experiences and skills that aren't as polished and then identifying and finding those people and seeing their worth and their value.

Mm.

Siobhan: So my favorite thing is, and I would say this is, I, I, I love coaching so much for this, is I, I see everyone as a little planet, you know, a little constellation of planets and I'm so curious about who they are, and I can so easily see kind of where their potential is and and I, and I find that incredibly exciting.

And, and an honor to be a partner in that. But, but for me, and it's the teacher in me, I just loved that in my students as well. I love seeing how their brains go and really kind of figuring out what is possible and really helping them. In that process. So that, you know, that's the part, like for me, that if I could just sit in that little spot every day, happy as can be.

Erin: That does sound like a happy little spot.

Siobhan: It does. You would know.

Erin: Changing lives one by one. Love it. So I'm hearing a lot of energy around creating, activating, relating. And I know you once shared with me a thought that it stuck, it stuck with me. I, I, I, I think it's one of many very sticky pieces of wisdom that you tend to dole out.

So I want to dive into it. You shared that there are, you know, there are times when we are owning our talents. And then there are times when our talents are owning us. And I, I think I, have felt that. I think I am, I am, I have, I have, I understand. At least I can make meaning of that in my own way.

I'm curious to know how you've made meaning of that and, and what that has kind of looked and felt like for you? And how do you work through it?

Siobhan: Yeah, I think, you know, I think it's one of the most important things to understand. And it actually goes back to one of the very first words you used in opening this conversation and it's about intention. And if you are intentional about how you, who you are and how you're wired, and I think another friend of yours said, if you just own it, right.

And in the CliftonStrengths world, we call it the name, aim, and claim, you know, the name, claim, and aim. Sorry. But if understanding is key. that you being intentional, you know, aware and intentional about your talents, that's when they become superpowers. and when you become aware that, that you're not being intentional and you're getting bossed around it's a really good Moment.

That's a great moment for feedback. You know, like that's something I welcome. People are like, you know, you're really, you're raring to go that activator is high. You know, we've got a couple more people to get on board the bus before we're off to the races here. Helps me, right? You know, feedback that's based on trust.

That is kind and that is based on who I am is one really helpful way, right? In dealing with that I do a pretty active reflective process. I'm a big fan of writing for reflection and processing

 I guess you could call it a journaling of sorts, but it's really reflecting like, did it, when did this come in? When didn't it come in, in terms of like the talents that I'm trying to be intentional around. And I think the other part is really being clear about what I am not good at

Scott: Mm

Siobhan: and really trying to either ask for help, or partner with others who are.

hmm.

Erin, does that help answer that question?

Erin: Absolutely. And I think so much of, of what you're offering up is, is just offering clarity, being clear about yourself and communicating that out, which I think both are, I think everyone, most people are on a journey on for both of those things, figuring out who we are and then how to communicate that in a way that's like you said, it's based in trust.

That you can invite the kind of feedback that you need to have the experience be rounded out in a way that's going to work for everyone. 

So, I really appreciate that.

Scott: So all right. So Erin, I wanna, I wanna pivot us a little bit so, you know, we're about halfway through our conversation. Siobhan, I would love to just kind of pause to hear one of the best pieces of advice you have ever received or given. Mm-Hmm.

Siobhan: Susan Egmont once said to me, Siobhan, you have to put out what you want. Just say to the universe, she goes. I know, you think I'm crazy, but it works.

Scott: Mm-Hmm.

Siobhan: And I'll always remember her saying that.

And, and I think it was both invitational, but it was generous. And it just felt like a little bit of magic dust. You know what I mean? Like, like, like magic is with you and opportunity is with you. And you just have to be a little bit braver. put it out there. So I would, I often think of that.

I, and I think I told her once about that too. I was like, oh, you know, I'll never forget when you said that. And, oh, I did tell her that because she was like, that's true. It is true. It does happen. So, so, you know, and I mean, is that helpful for people to say, oh, just put it out there. It's helpful in so far that if you were taking steps Towards who you feel like you really are 

Scott: Mm-Hmm. 

Siobhan: with that, it will happen,

Scott: Mm-Hmm.

Siobhan: It will happen, but sometimes you have to give up what you thought you were going to be.

Scott: Yes.

Siobhan: You know, and I think sometimes we have to give up the arc of a career we expected. I think sometimes I'm hearing from younger people sort of a, you know, a pressure, right, to be like, you know, a CEO at 30. And so sometimes we have Give up that pressure. We have to get these different kinds of expectations.

Because sometimes what we're really good at is not necessarily anything we've sort of seen, or it's on a different time frame than we think it is. Mm

Scott: Like, it's, it's such great advice because I think of not letting perfection get in the way of progress. I think of just the hesitancy I have felt at times in my career to put something out there because I felt like, oh, it's not fully flushed out, or I just need to spend a little bit more time, or I feel a little bit like an imposter, so I'm not ready to put it out there.

When in fact, you know, those moments when we do take that risk and share and open up that. It can come back to us. What we're putting out there.

Siobhan: And just how much stronger it is when it's shared and informed and built with other people.

Scott: Yes. Yes.

Siobhan: You know, there's a like, there's, you know, you make something bigger than the sum of the parts, you know, so you know, I think that the, the, The advice that I like to give this was an experience I had know the janitor,

Scott: hmm.

Siobhan: know their name, know their family, know their background I like to know lots of people, so that's part of the reason, but also sometimes I used to get, you know, in the olden days when we were in the office all the time I would get locked out.

And it's really good to know the person who actually has all the keys. So I mean it both literally and metaphorically. And I mean, I mean, the person who knows the most in an organization, you know, and this is a metaphor, was a person who was cleaning all the trash and the person who took the trash out.

They know what's going on in every, they know what's going on. And not that I was necessarily dependent on them to know that. But for me, that person I, I could see they were always aware of what was happening in the totality of the space. And and so every space that I've gone into, I have been intentional in particular with that relationship, but also from that perspective,

Scott: Mm

Siobhan: What does it look like?

From the outside, what does it look like from the quote unquote, bottom up?

Scott: hmm. I have to share a real quick anecdote just to affirm Siobhan. So as Erin knows, my mom owned a cleaning business and she has been cleaning homes and businesses for decades and as a small business owner who has often had clients with other small businesses, there's been a number of times when clients have folded.

And she's gotten really good over the years at knowing, like, kind of, you know, feeling the vibrations, like something, something's happening here. And, you know, she got to know those vibrations because often it meant, like, the cleaning people were, like, the last people paid. So, if a company went under, she wasn't getting paid.

So she would know, I think, before some of the other employees, like, oh, and she wouldn't necessarily say it or communicate it, but she would sense it, like, This, this ship's going down

Siobhan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she would know, you know, and I think it's also, you know, and I think it's also just so important you know, from a place of if you're making change in the world, or you believe in that, if you're not inclusive in every relationship you're going to show up for, you know,

Scott: Yep,

Siobhan: You know, that's a, that's a, that's a problem.

You, you don't like, it's, you know, it can't just be we're solving the problem up and out, you know, you're, you can solve it right here too, you know, so

Erin: Well, you, you mentioned earlier the power in putting things out there to the universe. And so if I could apply that in a small way to this conversation I'll share another anecdote. So years ago, I, maybe within the last five Scott shared a post with me. About nonprofit generalists that deeply resonated with both of us. And you were the author.

Siobhan: I was.

Erin: So if I could put out to the universe via this conversation, can you, can you help us reflect on and understand the power of the generalist? What is it, what is a generalist? So, you know, I heard you say earlier, Vanessa asked you to come in and just do all the things. You know how to do all the things, do the things. 

You do the things that I think that deeply resonates with Scott and I and I imagine with a lot of our listeners. So help us understand the generalist.

Siobhan: I would, I would be happy to. And I'll just, I'll just kind of step back a little bit and just talk about where does this idea come from and, and why I am thinking about it a lot these days. I think part of what took me so long I had a in figuring out kind of my value proposition was that and my role and what I could do in support of social change organizations and leaders specifically was that while I had a pretty good idea of, like, things I was really good at, I didn't really have a great.

title. And even when Susan Egmont was like, put it out into the universe. I was like, I don't know what that's, I don't know what I'm called, you know, like, you know, CEO, I don't really want all the responsibility. Like I like to be like the consigliere, you know, like behind the, you know, like, like I like, I, you know, I couldn't just be, you know, I need a lot more freedom.

I needed a lot more space. I needed opportunities to do things that, um, and and and kind of play an experiment without that burden without that responsibility, you know, chief of staff, maybe COO. No, it's just I mean, yes, I'm happy to help start it, but I'm not a maintainer. Right? So you can see I'm like, so what am I going to put out there?

Right? So. I would describe myself and when you describe yourself as I'm, I'm a connector and catalyst and communicator, you know, you, you kind of, you don't sound like you know what you're talking about. So the people who knew me and worked with me and could who saw me in action

Erin: Mm-Hmm.

Siobhan: You just need Siobhan.

You know, it's like my name, just, just she'll help you, you know and people who need someone. And when I could say something to someone in a way that, that they were like, Oh, they didn't know what's, that's what they needed. And then I'm like, do you need someone who does this and this? And they're like, yes.

I'm like, Oh, that's me. Oh, then I'll hire you. Right. 

So the challenge is there's not really a title, but when you start digging deep and I'm really grateful to David Epstein who wrote the book Range, which is a must read. And it was on Obama's list and the Wall Street Journal and NPR featured it as well, the subtitle is Why Generalist Triumph in a Specialized World? 

Erin: triumph. Now 

Siobhan: Triumph. I know, I know, it's very and he does a really, really great job with, I mean, tons of interviews and stories and anecdotes and data you know, talking about kind of how, what generalists are like and, and, and how they're, and make some, has some descriptions but a lot, you know, how they're, how Of examples and why they're sort of primed for success in a more dynamic volatile, you know, the VUCA world, right?

And the thing is that when I read that book, I was like, “Oh, yeah, that's me. That's me, right?” And there are some hallmarks of a generalist, and there's a lot of them in the social sector. 

Scott: mm

Siobhan: Importantly, generalists are not better than specialists, and specialists are not better than generalists.

That's not the point. The point is everyone needs to play to their strengths. But if you are a generalist, what's hard in the specialist world is you just, you're like, you go into one pool, you swim around, and You know, in the shallow end and you're pretty good, but then you're not really interested in the deep end and you're kind of like thinking about what's in the other pool, right?

And then you kind of bring what you learned in one pool into the other pool, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Maybe not the best metaphor, but the point is, more than anything, a generalist is curious.

Erin: Mm.

Siobhan: And they're in high learning mode all the time.

Scott: Mm An effective generalist, right? Is someone who's bringing their learning. They could, they're usually quick to study. They're usually, and, and they're saying, here's a problem that needs. They're learning what's the challenge, who's involved, right? And they're able to learn enough, right? But they're also able to think a little bit out of the box in terms of making connections. So they often will bring a different idea or a different approach to getting this problem solved or done. So they're very connective between ideas, between people, and will often bridge. So great at project management. Entrepreneurs. Well, seeing a gap, they're going to fill the gap that they'll, you know, and they do everything themselves at the beginning. Classic. And we're generalists so they're very good at looking across and they have often been described as a utility player.

Erin: mm 

Siobhan: The jack of all trades there's other sort of metaphors. For this, but they, they, they, because of the learning and bringing that learning forward, they're great during times of change and can be adaptive. They often have strong people skills, um, and often see a lot of patterns.

Scott: Mm.

Erin: There's a lot of head nodding going on in this video. head, a lot of head

Siobhan: Scott and I are feeling seen in many different ways. It's so helpful to hear you dig into that because I think I think you're right. The people, there are a lot of people who can jump in and do all the things in the social impact sector.

Erin: It seemed to be in a place that's relatively under capacity. Generalists are relied upon to, to contribute and pivot and contribute some more and, and pivot some more pretty regularly. And I imagine they could find a great deal of success and, and meaning in that. But when do you help?

Generalists figure out whether it's not about the content of the work necessarily, but it's there. It sounds like finding good fit opportunities for journalists are helping them find that the place that's going to let them lean into their strengths is a more nuanced conversation. It's like a deeper exploration. How do you help generalists find that fit?

Siobhan: So, so generalists are going to need so one thing that is, is, is. And there's a lot of different like models and theories around types of different types of generalists in terms of, you know, they call it the T or the M or one has the infinity loop. The idea is a generalist has to be because they cannot be so aligned with a skill set.

Or, or, or deep expertise in an issue or knowledge area. So they, you know, might say, you know, someone who knows a lot about clean energy, perhaps, right? Or someone who is an engineer has a skill set that they can really promote and bring forward. The generalist has to really leverage and really know their own talents and be very clear about how those talents explain their success. So when we were talking earlier about flow, it's really paying attention and examining like when did flow happen and why, because a generalist is because they're so effective in change and because they're so effective working across an organization, the where or the context in which they work is more important. Because they're working across teams than it is for a specialist who typically can either own their team or be on their team. Does that make sense? And I'm generalizing, ha ha ha, here and again, I, you know I think one of the greatest roles a generalist can have is in working across teams and really enabling specialists to shine in really profound ways, right?

And, and, and, and, You know, philanthropy is full of generalists, I, you know, the majority, you know and when we see people or when we're, you know, managing at nonprofits or anyone thinking about social impact, when you see the people who are specialists who are really delivering the services or really, really making the concrete change happen.

Right. Nothing makes me happier than being able to enable people to do their best. Right. And so if I can help enable generalists to help organizations and specialists navigate through change and adapt, you know, that's the thing, you know, that's. Couldn't be happier, you know, and teams it's, you know, because it's a team thing as well.

So I'm not sure I answered that fully. Let me, so the, I take a strengths based approach and really work with people to understand what are your, what are your talents? When have they shown up? How are you really? Linking what you do innately well with where your success has been and how are you actually verbalizing that and then in conversations about opportunities when you're trying to find fit, how are you talking about the environment in which you thrive. I wish I had done more of that. You know, I need a lot of freedom. Startups are great for me because there's so much work that needs to happen. They don't care. They're like, if someone does it, that's great. I'm like, that's great. I'll go do that. I'll build your, you know, I'll go hire 20 people.

Have I done it before? Maybe, maybe not, you know, maybe not 20, but you know, whatever it's, it's, it's, you know, I'm not going to volunteer to like you know, get the software up and running, you know? would be a disaster but I think really helping people and then, you know, helping people give language. Language is our way as humans of framing and it's how we understand.

And so if we don't have the exact word to describe what we are, and there is no good word we have to have really good language to describe it enough that people can actually it, 

you know? 

Scott: Siobhan, can I just jump in? Like that, the connection between what you've just shared around language and the advice that you cited from Susan Egmont earlier, just putting it out there, it makes me think of those moments when, you know, personally, when I have put something out there. Somewhat, and it echoes in the conversation with my other person.

They say it back to me in their words. And, you know, one or two things have either happened. Either, you know, they've, they've either helped me say it more concise and in a way that I can share it more readily. Or they've, they've given me a prompt to kind of think bigger about it. So that, that combination and the importance of like putting What you want out there and how that language with one another helps to frame and build and like in, you know, in, in so many different settings and context.

Siobhan: And it's, and it, and it's about connection, right? You 

know? And, and building that. Yeah, I think that's, that's even you saying that back to me makes me think a little bit more around, That idea of communication, because I also think you can have it with yourself when you're writing,

Scott: Mm-Hmm.

Siobhan: You know and also I would say, you know, this is also a good example of coaching, right, Erin, you know, kind of that reflection back can be powerful.

Erin: Absolutely. That's where my head went for sure. But when does it not? I'm not sure. Well, I, I, so I, there's about Speaking of curiosity and coaching, there's probably about 10 more questions floating around my head regarding this concept of a generalist. So first of all, appreciation to you for bringing that forward years ago and allowing us to dig into it today.

And, and because I'm now putting out to the world, all the things I want with confidence and ownership. I'm going to ask for part two of this conversation where we dig in more to the concept of a generalist, because I imagine it's going to resonate with more than just Scott and I.

Scott: Here. That's

Erin: As we, as we bring the conversation to a close, I'm curious to know how folks can learn about you more, more about you and your work and be in touch if, if they have things to send your way.

Siobhan: Sure, LinkedIn, and my website is Big Sea strategies. And there's a link there that people can schedule time with me to chat,

Erin: Excellent. 

Siobhan: always 

happy to chat. 

Erin: As a true woo, you love the chat.

Siobhan: I do. I do. And it's it and it might be the Irish. In me as well, we're, you know, highly verbal culture, so 

Erin: But see, I'm Irish, and I'm a coach and a generalist. But the chatting is more of the listening than the chatting, I suppose. What am I doing on a podcast? I don't know.

Anyway, 

Siobhan: Asking, asking your, your, your very insightful questions is what you're doing.

Scott: Yes.

Erin: There you go.

Scott: Siobhan, this has been so fantastic. I feel like there's, as Erin noted earlier, I think both of us have felt seen in our short time together as, as generalists I wrote down range by. David Epstein,

Siobhan: Yep. 

Scott: I want to definitely check that title out and Erin, so glad you queued up a part two.

 Can't wait to continue the conversation at a future date.

Siobhan: Thank you. It's been a real treat and a joy. 

Erin: Thank you for sharing this time and your wisdom with us, Siobhan. We really appreciate it.