Lead & Live Well

Values in Action with Miriam Ortiz

• Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

Miriam Ortiz joins Scott and Erin on Lead and Live Well to share her remarkable leadership story, rooted in advocacy, empowerment, and a commitment to creating pathways for others. As a leader in workforce development and a passionate advocate for equity, Miriam dives into the challenges and triumphs of her career, the lessons learned from navigating systemic barriers, and her vision for liberatory leadership. This conversation is filled with practical advice, inspiring reflections, and the wisdom of someone who leads with purpose and authenticity

Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen

Erin: Welcome to the Lead and Live Well podcast. My name is Erin Cox, and I'm thrilled to be here with my co host Scott Knox on the Lead and Live Well podcast. We sit down with leaders in the social impact world to learn about their leadership journeys. 

We talk about their strengths and passions, the transitions they have made in their career, And how they have crafted their own paths to leadership.

Our goal is to highlight a diverse array of leaders and journeys, so that our listeners learn from relatable and compelling examples of what it means to lead and live well. 

Scott: are so excited to welcome Miriam Ortiz to another episode of the Lead and Live Well podcast. I want to share a little bit about Miriam's bio and background for our listeners, just to set the stage. So Miriam Ortiz currently serves as the Director of Education and Training at Just to Start, where she leads student centered workforce development programs.

Throughout her career, she has built strong strategic, managerial, and operational competencies in her work with underserved populations, primarily adult learners and opportunity youth. Before joining Just to Start, Miriam was the Chief of Staff at Italian Home for Children and Associate Director of Youth and Families Program Manager at Centro Latino.

Miriam earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from Bryn Mawr College as a Posse scholar, and a Master of Public Policy from Tufts University as a Neighborhood Fellow, both full tuition merit based awards.

Incredible, Miriam. Miriam's vision for liberation is working with people in our community with a strengths based approach to remove individual and systemic barriers to educational, social, and economic mobility. Having moved to the U. S. as a Miriam intimately understands the challenges of undocumented and mixed status families.

I will share that in addition to being a fantastic friend and someone who I look up to, Miriam's leadership has been recognized on many levels across the non profit sector and recently was recognized by the Boston Women's Fund as one of their 40 liberation leaders their 40th anniversary.

Miriam, welcome. It is so fantastic to have you here.

Miriam: Thank you friends. So good to see you on this Friday morning.

Erin: Thank you for being here, Miriam. And I'm like a little exhausted, but also very impressed by everything that we just read in your bio. Super excited to dive right in. And like in a lot of ways, I know you're only getting started, which is incredible. So we want to jump in a little bit more to those career transitions, like the different steps you've taken as you've grown your career. and in particular, reflecting on, um, What sparked those transitions in terms of like chance verse choice, we find sometimes there's a mix there and folks really benefit from hearing how folks have navigated their career.

Miriam: Yeah, well, thank you again for the opportunity and the invitation. So yeah, just to dive right in. I would say when I talk about my career development, the origin story for me is always my engagement with community organizing when I was a student. a young person in high school. Um, I am one of a few founders of an organization called Student Immigrant Movement.

Now it changed to Story Inspiring Movement, but it was centered around advocacy for folks to be able to go to school on a state level, in state tuition, on the national level, the DREAM Act. And that sparked for me a sense of belonging and community and excitement for my love of learning.

Sure, it's like a very personal issue, right? Like I was literally doing this organizing around something that impacted me and my friends in school. But it really illuminated the power of connecting with people from a grassroots level because you are in camaraderie. In terms of that journey to liberation, and this is language that I use now and that back then was just like, I want to go to this rally with my friends because I want to get other young people who are connected to the issue.

And so I think so much of my professional skill set development has to do with that initial understanding that organizing is about bringing people together. people into the tent, right, is not about necessarily, of course, your center, the experience of the folks that are affected, but it's about awareness, it's about education, it's about engagement in the civic process even being, being active citizens uh, ironically for me, not being a citizen.

Right. And so I think I, carry my in my DNA this piece about community connection and then, things progress. I think when you talk about like by chance or choice, I think I, I am in this space of nonprofit. A little bit of both. I think that I had a love for community and being the recipient of so many enrichment programs.

I was a summer search alum. I did bottom line. Those familiars with this programs in Boston, a Posse scholar. I had an after school program in Eastie. And so I have always been at the receiving end of these investments I am in this space to discover how I can leverage that to continue to open up opportunity for those that came behind me.

So everything has been rooted in that. I think that the early years of my career, it was as many folks who are in the sector, you jump in doing direct work, direct service. You're on the front lines. I have been a case manager for young mothers a program for Family planning and wraparound support.

Maybe coordinating ESL classes, doing translation and interpretation, really just those early days are about calibrating what you may be good at, what you enjoy, more or less, but there's definitely a lot of learning around, like, secondhand trauma and what it means to teach.

The front lines of this work. So I think my progression I have always sought very intentionally programs or trainings that helped me feel like I was not alone in this journey. So one of those programs that I did earlier in my career Institute of nonprofit practice. Now they are national and they're doing some great work with leaders of color and nonprofit leaders in general, but that led me to look inward and to try to refine. Do I want to be an individual contributor? Do I want to stay at this program level or am I more inclined to be thinking about the enterprise? What, where is my leadership journey? How does my lived experience show up in the way that, you know, in the things that I do every day?

So I think that really helped me solidify that, I want to be a manager. I want to be a director. I want to be an executive. And I think that in everything that has happened after that, after, my central Latino early days has been about it just a process of empowerment around how does my skill set fit programatically. 

And so that leads to today. I am the director of education and training at an organization. you know, Over 50 years the organization, I think is close to 50 something employees and more than half are in my department and we are creating pathways for young people to get their credentials and getting to construction trades and retail management. And on the adult side helping mostly immigrant people of color getting to careers into life science and I. T. 

So it's a big full circle moment for me to be thinking about like this vision of what it means to for me to have experience opportunity and access to education has completely transformed the trajectory of not just my life, but my family. It radiates out and to be in a position where, I I'm a catalyst for enabling that.

At this level and in this scope is just been a blessing. But a little bit of both, like knowing that my North star was service the intentionality of seeking training, but also just, people who you find along the way who become your champions and sponsors.

Scott: I, I have a follow up question. Are you hiring

Miriam: Yes, we are. There are a few positions if you go to justicestar. org. check it out.

Scott: All right. Check that out for listeners and also a little, like a little tongue in cheek for myself, Miriam, because just hearing you share that kind of both the meta experience for yourself, but then also contextualizing lived experience, the direct experience, and then the synthesis that you shared gave me a little insight just in terms of how you as a leader show up for the people that you're supporting and work with.

Miriam: Thank you.

Erin: As you were talking through that, Miriam, I was really struck by The values basis that you've been using to guide all of your work. And I think so much of, previous conversations we've had, a lot of folks will talk about how they've reacted to opportunity or they met someone at a dinner or something like that.

And it sounds like I just really appreciated your reflections at a much more higher values based level, because it's like the details of the decisions. Felt I'm guessing they felt aligned as you went through it because they were all rooted in these things that were values for you from very early on.

Miriam: Definitely.

yeah, this is just making me think about the intentionality. I know For me, the way that manifested is, for example, one of the big transitions for me a few years ago was I was fresh out of grad school and I went to this fantastic program that allow me to be a student full time.

I knew that I had all of these good insights and I just needed better tools. So, with this policy degree, I was, upping my analytical skills, being able to just think through policy advocacy from different perspectives. And so I'm fresh out of grad school and one of the things that I did was just began connecting with people who had been in my professional trajectory.

And in one of those conversations is where I connected with an old supervisor who was at this organization. And it was almost when I talk about just the difference between mentors and champions and sponsors. Here was a hidden sponsor of mine that we reconnected. I think there's something about people experiencing your work ethic, like you're always interviewing for a job.

It's a little scary, right? Cause like, you don't know when you're going to need it, but Your output and the kind of impression that people have of you is your kind of entry point as your lives weave in and out. Boston is small, and especially in the nonprofit sector. It's a lot of finding the same people along the way.

But then, this person who knew me set things up for me to be able to she was in the midst of a restructuring, but having in mind and knowing my talent and aspirations, created that opportunity for me to stay here at a director level.

And then when she moved on, I applied for her job. But this is maybe a little bit of chance, right? Like these transitions happen and you don't have a way to account for them. But I think it's part of the bigger thing that I've learned in my career to keep in touch, like, and not just when you need something, right?

Like, keep in touch and let people know what you're up to put out in the universe where you're, where you are in your journey without necessarily needing something specifically. And I think that has paid off for me 

Erin: that's fantastic advice. And I think there's so many ways to do that now via like social media and, it doesn't have to be 20 coffees every, I don't know, Labor Day and Arbor Day or whatever. But but there's lots of ways to do that, and it is, that is really important as you were talking through your values and how they've guided you sometimes I feel like I put, I'm pulling out themes and sometimes when I reflect on them, I'm like, it's like, I'm hearing notes of community and like, like a wine review.

So the words I wrote down were community, advocacy, empowerment, and you called it full circle. In my mind, I was and I was so glad you said that, because for me, it was like, wow, this woman is like driving forth a virtuous cycle of, as you said, receiving, or the being the beneficiary of a number of programs.

And then not only Making those opportunities available for one or a handful or people within your families, but your part, you have been parts of organizations that have scaled their efforts. And I'm guessing you were integral to that. So it was like you took your one experience and you've now spread it to hundreds or thousands, which is just really inspiring.

Miriam: Thank you. And I know this is a journey about individual leadership, and it feels a little odd to be like, Yeah, I did that. Because, of course, I want to be like, No, we did that. My team, the managers, the folks that I partner with in this work are critical. But I think sometimes as leaders, it's important to recognize we can be carrying ourselves with humility and still recognize the impact that we have and the power of our leadership.

So thank you.

Erin: Yeah. You were totally humble. I'm just being more of a braggy for you. Yeah, there you go.

Scott: Miriam, you've. Aaron just lifted up and you've noted in our conversation so far a few things, but would love to hear what are you exceptionally good at, as you think about as you think about your journey so far and your work, with professional communities and communities in general.

Miriam: My lived experience of navigating difficult systems, whether that is getting my family out of an undocumented status, learning English and having that transition as a high school student being the translator metaphorically and literal translator, of so many things for my family from an early age means I will figure it out.

And so I think that that my ability to come into a space, assess, understand the challenges and have this kind of just resilience to say, Okay. That's the goal. We're going to get there. I think carries like can carry just confidence, not just for myself, but for my team, that in spite of the challenges, this navigational know how is there.

I think now that I am, specifically in the business of intervention. So educational programs. I feel I am good at thinking at the different layers of implications of something. So it's not just about running a program. You can think about specific outcomes. And sure, there's qualitative and quantitative data that we want to have discipline to collect.

But I'm always also attuned to what is that design? What are the implications of that on the student experience? And I think being able to zoom in and out, I has been, I have mentors and friends who have said to me that they appreciate that I'm able to facilitate spaces that allow for both conversations.

It's not zero sum, right? So doing something that's student centered. Does not mean that it's not strategic or that it's fundraisable, right? That this ability to hold the macro and the micro, I think has helped me yeah, just in this progression of of leadership along the way. So zooming in and out and holding space for others is something I'm really good at.

Scott: I love that, Miriam. I'm not going to do a synthesis or summary but you're like this consummate bridge builder, bridge builder in language, builder in opportunity and challenges, bridge builder between kind of like values, mission and implementation. And that kind of like Swiss army knife of being a bridge builder is, Probably one of the biggest utility players for any team in any organization.

Miriam: Thank you. Thank you. And I think that the other piece that you know, if I know intimately that's my strength, it gives me language as a manager to foster that. And not necessarily I need to coach people in a specific way, but I think it has helped me tremendously in enjoying and, in And continuing to be a better manager.

You need language. You need that experience to not just say this is the way that it should be done, but to help people again, hold people and give them the space to reflect on their own journey and cultivate their leadership. So that's another thing that I've enjoyed a lot. Over the last few years, it's just seeing the folks that I work with flourish in partnership, like witnessing that growth because it's not just about me.

It's great that I have this skill, but I want to learn from others. I want people who are bringing some of my blind spots in and their strength into the team. 

Erin: Scott, I so appreciate the bridge builder reflection word that was coming up for me was trust. And I think you, you summed it up beautifully. It's like, when we think about bridges and what that means to build connection with others in our space and solve complicated problems, like you were saying and work through complex issues and big goals that maybe feel unattainable at first.

Like when you said earlier, that's the goal we're going to get there. I got chills. And it's not cold today. It was just like, I, there was, I believed you. And I can feel that passion. It also strikes me that you, like you'd mentioned the zoom in and out, like you can play and be successful in a lot of different contexts.

You can zoom in, you can zoom out, you can be internal. Working with your team. I've also seen you be incredibly powerful externally. I challenge any funder to try not to fund you. I would imagine in a meeting. And so the versatility there is it's really impressive and I appreciate that you contextualize that in terms of this idea of like holding space for others, but also I'm hearing a lot of like challenging folks to not only think differently, but believe that they can get to a different outcome.

Miriam: Definitely. And since you're bringing up fundraising, I'll tell you that for me the past two years or so totally I have completely changed my orientation towards it because I I have felt earlier in my career, that it's transactional. I mean, that's That's the reality. You write a grant, you make a case, here it is, give me the money.

And I haven't, Had an opportunity to enter those spaces of cultivation, stewardship being an ambassador for the mission from a place of strength in and I feel the past two years being part of a capital campaign for a building expansion of our programs, new partnerships. Really just completely changed.

Like I feel confident because I'm not looking at it from, Oh my God, we got to ask for money and like, what does a donor want? It's really being excited about a project and inviting people to be a part of it and doing it from a place of strength and integrity and centering the folks who we're partnering with to do this work versus displaying them or parading them.

I think I've learned a lot about just that power of again back to my organizing years of like bring people into the tent. Like, that's okay. And you have different tools to do that in different stages and meeting people where they're at and doing it. But again, doing it from a place of power, completely changed things for me you know, especially in the role that I have now.

Scott: Miriam, I want to, I want to shift a little bit. And, knowing you as a friend, I also know that you prioritize family, you prioritize your friendships, and prioritizing kind of quiet time for yourself is also really important. And I'm wondering if you can share, what has been your approach to blending Work and life and how has that evolved over time?

Miriam: Yeah, so important. I think it's like everything pendulum swings, right? They are going to be times where you're dedicated and you have a goal or something to deliver. And that's the focus. And some things need to take a step back. I think the calibration of I'm thinking about 2020 and George Floyd and the racial reckoning that the country went through and being a practitioner in this space and having a spouse who's also an equity practitioner, like the type of processing that was happening.

Every day inside or home and outside was just completely overwhelming. And I'm not complaining. We all went, have processed this to the best of our abilities, but it was a lesson around just the importance of creating those boundaries in, in, in being intentional about. Saying out loud, and this needs to take a step back, especially because we the work is so personal.

The work can feel so personal. So how can I like detach, uncouple them. It just almost unimaginable. But I think yeah, I think it's a process of intentionality. I appreciate that I am in an organization that has that as a value that allows me to show up and beat myself and recognize I'm a human and a daughter and a spouse and all of those things.

In addition to my role as a leader. And so making space for that made may look. Yeah, like it's okay to take those lunches and handling your business, and it's not again, it's not zero sum thinking like being able to take care of those things that may be family related or as a, Someone who's beginning to take care of elderly parents who need logistical support like that actually adds to my quality of life and therefore my output as a worker that I don't have to be pressed about whether I can take the time at the end of the day to go to that appointment.

And I try to foster that with the folks that I work with as well. Um, I mean, I think the other piece just very simply, fill your cup. I'm someone that does need that alone time to recharge and I'm trying to find ways to insert that in my day and to kindly decline invitations to things that sometimes it's just a lot of social functions and I don't have, I need to recharge my battery.

So it's learning to listen to yourself, listen to your body, listen to, what that recalibration that needs to happen on that as the pendulum swing back and forth, but drink your water move and go to lunch. Those are tangible.

Erin: Hydration is so important. There was a period of my career where one of our dear friends at Jumpstart renamed her my director of hydration. It wasn't so much about work stress, it was about other choices, but we don't need to get into that right now. But shout out to Rachel Bragan. But on a more serious note we're heading so this interview is being recorded post election.

We're heading into the unknown with a lot of fear, anxiety, maybe a lot, a lot of fight. And I wonder as you think about what you've learned about what you need for self care. How are you thinking about? I think you would have really helpful advice for folks who are nervous, understandably, about the future. So, and you think about how what you've learned and how you're going to apply it as we move forward, what comes up for you?

Miriam: My goodness. I'm doing this for myself as much as I'm doing it for you. I have not done the get going speech to myself because, you know, we were discussing this is a moment of recalibration, but we've done this before. We are resilient. We are going to figure out a way to protect each other, to show up for each other, to shift their focus and impact to the local, the hyper local, whether that is your family, your organization, your state this is something that is happening globally. This is not something unique. Again, back to, my core, we can navigate difficult things and make it to the other side.

And now I have even more resources. I have even more people to lean on. I have a stable job. I have caring and loving family. Like there's no way that as difficult as the context gets, I'm not going to be okay. 

Erin: Thank you for that. I think you just did the let's go speech. We're just going to snip that out and post it and play it on repeat. Yeah, I found both a great deal of frustration. I never thought we'd go back to where we were before. But also there is some form of comfort there of like, okay, got, we got through it.

We'll figure it out. And I appreciate this idea of having even more resources. We do. And we have a younger generation. And we have more learnings than we have more energy. And, I can't speak to what the other side has, if you will, but there's resilience there that I think and also the folks who maybe were on the receiving end of how folks led back in 2016 and beyond, are now in leadership, and I'm seeing a different approach to that start to emerge, and that's been really interesting and hopeful, frankly, to see.

Miriam: Right there with you.

Scott: Thank you for going with that and Aaron for that transition. Because I think the way you framed the balance Miriam, and I know like none of us have our exact health care plan, however, we define that as, for the next four years and beyond.

But there is such a bridge. There is such a bridge from your earlier reflections to, okay, how are we going to get through? So thank you Erin, for the question. Thank you, Miriam, for the response.

Miriam: I think it's important for us to lean into the abundance. It's so easy to begin to look at the even further divisions and I'm not going to get into it. But there's a lot of headlines about like Latinos and how they voted. And I can be inclined to just hyper focus on, Oh my God, these shifts are terrible.

How did we get here? And sure, there may be space for that processing. But I don't want to. I don't. It's like, I don't want to fall to despair. There is abundance. We are capable of figuring out how to take care of each other without leaning into what divided 

Erin: I'm going to write that down too. I'm writing down your 

Scott: oh my God. 

Erin: Words is my let's go. speech So,

Miriam: like Scott's better. I don't know if you're allowed to swear on air, but yours was good, Scott.

Scott: Yeah,

Erin: You can give that you can give the acronym there, Scott. 

Scott: Yeah. L-F-G. Yeah.

Miriam: Yes.

Erin: Awesome.

Scott: Shifting gears a little bit again, Miriam, one of the things that Erin and I love to ask our guests is about some of the best advice. They've ever received or given and wondering if you can share with us Best advice received or given.

Miriam: The best advice I've been given is water the plants. And what that means is it's back to the conversation we had earlier about connecting with people authentically and along your journey. And That's really difficult for me. I think I can turn on the, external leader, cheerleader when I have to, but naturally I'm someone introverted and needs my space.

And so this idea of like networking was so overwhelming to me earlier in my career. It's like cold calling, but in person, like that's, that was just weird to me. But I think it's important to recalibrate yourself independently of your personality to prioritize some of that networking, sharing with the purpose of, again it's very selfish endeavor.

It's not like, Let me tell people all about my organization or pitch myself again is like feeling connected to others in this work. But when I say water the plans, it's really just maintaining those authentic connections with people who have been impactful and like, Erin was saying it doesn't have to be, like, let's get on a schedule, but it has to be intentionality around who are the people who you worked alongside, who you valued, who, you could have a call with or just keep each other on each other's loop.

And LinkedIn makes that easier. I don't post much, so here I am preaching, but. There are tools for doing that. Because I think again, back to this idea, it's a small community. People remember you you make an impression. And cultivating that along the way is what allows you to reap the benefits when you're not expecting it connecting from that place of authenticity, even if you're an introvert.

Scott: Hear, Hear. I co sign that, Miriam. And I think of one of the things that I've that I've allowed myself to do over time is if someone's on my mind, I'll just shoot them a text and just say, like, I was thinking of you you crossed my mind and it can be something short and that coupled with when gratitude moves us like don't hold it just share it.

I ran into an a former board member of mine when I was an executive director a couple nights ago. This Nicole McLaughlin, Aaron, who I've not just not seen her in a couple years. Miriam, she's the CEO of the Plummer up in Salem. And seeing Nicole just immediately, a wave went over my body of just how much I respected and appreciated her and thinking like, I don't think I ever told Nicole that.

And so it wasn't like a polished rehearsal. I'm going to tell you the three things. I just want to go up and say like, thank you. And you were meaningful to me, are meaningful to me. So just like seizing those moments, I think, especially as we go is, into the future is just one way of watering the plants.

Miriam: Definitely. And I, as a recipient of one of your, I've thought about you this week, I didn't even tell you, it was just a glimpse of joy. It's like in the middle of a Thursday and then you get this unexpected text. It just upped my day. So. I appreciate it.

Erin: I can second that. For reasons that I don't think we can totally remember Scott and I send, send llama pictures and memes back and forth. It's

a 

A 

Scott: good always gets me. 

Erin: It's in birthday cards. Now there's like llamas are in a lot of places and it's just it's just great. Like you said, a moment of joy and a warmth in the heart, I will offer want to connect the dots between a previous interview we've done that I found, advice that Gaby King Morse gave and she it's likea consummate networker, amazing extrovert.

And I adore her and I am not those things. So, but she she always has wise things to say. And she said it, you have to go into any room knowing that you have something of value to share, feeling really confident that what you're doing, the opportunities you can extend to other people, the projects you're a part of, like you were saying earlier, Miriam, in terms of your approach to fundraising, like, It's a valuable invitation, whether or not it meets someone where they're at right now, we don't know unless we put it out there.

And that, and it can, and when we do and it fits, it can create really exciting things. So it's worth it. It's worth it. Well, I know we're going to be transitioning soon. And I'm sad about that, but I'm going to get through it. You mentioned at the beginning about being really intentional about your training.

And I, I haven't said it yet, but I have to say it. Go Jumbos. I'm a Tufts person as well. Yeah. I know it's obnoxious, but we have to do it. And you're the intentionality there I think I want to explore a little bit because one of the things we like to ask folks is what are the, like, what are the tools, the articles, the trainings, the cohorts, the programs that you've either done or sent staff members to or heard good things about that that you just want to put on people's radar screens in this conversation as yet another gift from you to the world.

Miriam: Thank you. I'll definitely have to give a shout out to Boston Women's Fund and their incredible role in supporting Brown and Black women leaders in the sector, I was part of their leadership circle a few cycles ago. It was during the pandemic. But they just continue to center us in a way that is so needed.

And they have been an incredible source of sisterhood and support and companionship. I haven't been connected to activities with INP recently, but I know they're doing excellent work in continuing to do the cohorts and making it even more accessible for leaders. And there's a specific focus on leader of colors.

So for those folks that are earlier in your career, always have that on your map. They do recruitment annually. Those have been really great. Something that's a little in terms of like articles and things that I consume, I love it's a little silly, but I love the blog non profit AF.

I don't know if you're familiar with it but it just, it always finds a way to bring humor. This work can sometimes be absurd. It can be, and it's a way of highlighting some of the sector dysfunctions from a place of like tough love. And sometimes it helps, it has helped me like share articles that encapsule what I'm thinking and feeling and pass it on without me needing to articulate like systemic, issues.

And it's just like, duh, like it does it with humor. So, I definitely keep that on my Friday rotation. 

Erin: Love that. Those are fantastic suggestions. And I agree. I have similar kind of like, it's both witty and wise. 

Miriam: Witty and wise. 

Erin: Yeah. And INP is Institute for Nonprofit Practice. And just to connect the dots between the various streams of this conversation, they actually just put out a report and are doing an initiative that will go beyond the report on well being.

In the sector, which feels really well timed. And so folks could check that out. And I know Yolanda and her team are going to be building on the original report, which was a review of research on well being. And I think it'll start to move more into practicality.

Miriam: That's another thing, Boston Foundation Indicators Project, all of the reports that they put out always just give you good insight and language even if it's not related to your area of practice. I like to read those when they come out.

Scott: Thanks for the shout out, Miriam.

Miriam: Oh, you work at the Boston, yeah, my bad.

Scott: Yeah. 

Yeah, 

Miriam: so much. 

Erin: Good thing she read that little cue in the chat, Scott.

Scott: Yeah, exactly.

Erin: Oh, Miriam, this is such a gift, such a bright spot. Thank you so much for having this conversation with us.

Miriam: Thank you. I needed it. It's an opportunity for reflection and empowerment in a week that has been really tough.

Scott: Miriam, thank you for the conversation. Thank you for your friendship. Thank you for your leadership in our community.

Miriam: Thank you. Thank you, friends. Bye.

Erin: Take good care. 

People on this episode

Contributor

Erin Cox

Host
Contributor

M. Scott Knox

Host