{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.4,"endTime":4.073,"body":"I was not willing to walk somebody else's path. I was not"},{"startTime":4.129,"endTime":7.841,"body":"willing to even follow the traditional advice around."},{"startTime":7.993,"endTime":11.817,"body":"Here's how you have to do things in order to get to, you"},{"startTime":11.841,"endTime":15.633,"body":"know, point Z. You have to do ABC and blah, blah, blah."},{"startTime":15.689,"endTime":19.417,"body":"And it, you know, lost. Was that in"},{"startTime":19.441,"endTime":23.201,"body":"your nature before your mom got so sick, or do you think it was because"},{"startTime":23.313,"endTime":26.427,"body":"your mom got so sick? Appreciation"},{"startTime":26.491,"endTime":30.331,"body":"for that's a really good question. Yeah, I think"},{"startTime":30.363,"endTime":34.195,"body":"it was in my nature before that. Yeah, I was an unusual kid"},{"startTime":34.235,"endTime":38.035,"body":"in a variety of ways, but, but that"},{"startTime":38.155,"endTime":41.883,"body":"really crystallized it, like from the standpoint of, you"},{"startTime":41.899,"endTime":45.435,"body":"know, when you're faced literally with the death of"},{"startTime":45.475,"endTime":48.851,"body":"somebody that is so dear to you, you know, it,"},{"startTime":49.003,"endTime":52.651,"body":"it changes your perspective on timelines, it changes"},{"startTime":52.683,"endTime":56.229,"body":"your perspective on how you spend your own time in"},{"startTime":56.277,"endTime":59.909,"body":"life. And hey, welcome back to the Cash. Flow podcast with me,"},{"startTime":59.997,"endTime":63.605,"body":"Pam Prior. Glad to have you here where we. Talk about everything"},{"startTime":63.685,"endTime":67.461,"body":"money related in your business. So without further ado, let's hop"},{"startTime":67.493,"endTime":68.265,"body":"right in."},{"startTime":71.805,"endTime":75.645,"body":"And welcome back, Cash Flow Friends. I am so excited for another know"},{"startTime":75.685,"endTime":78.909,"body":"your map segment with a very special friend of"},{"startTime":78.957,"endTime":82.519,"body":"mine from the Mind Map. I tell you so much about"},{"startTime":82.647,"endTime":86.351,"body":"the mind map of awesome relationships, from known mentors"},{"startTime":86.423,"endTime":90.175,"body":"to those wonderful kind of unexpected surprises we all have"},{"startTime":90.215,"endTime":93.375,"body":"of those special relationships that bring human"},{"startTime":93.455,"endTime":96.863,"body":"connection to our entrepreneurial or career"},{"startTime":96.919,"endTime":100.519,"body":"journeys, whichever you're in. And on this show, we let you hear from the people"},{"startTime":100.567,"endTime":104.239,"body":"on my relationship map. And yes, indeed, I do have"},{"startTime":104.287,"endTime":107.803,"body":"an actual mind map of relationships that are meaningful to"},{"startTime":107.819,"endTime":111.443,"body":"me, of how I met everyone. But you hear about their own"},{"startTime":111.499,"endTime":115.011,"body":"relationships and how they've mattered to their business and their own personal"},{"startTime":115.083,"endTime":118.499,"body":"trajectory because this can be a lonely business that we're in as"},{"startTime":118.547,"endTime":121.931,"body":"entrepreneurs. So without further ado, let's dive"},{"startTime":122.003,"endTime":125.683,"body":"in to meet Heather Pierce Campbell, who is a"},{"startTime":125.699,"endTime":129.395,"body":"newer part of my map and actually has two connections on my map that are"},{"startTime":129.435,"endTime":133.223,"body":"totally disassociated, which is kind of fun. And I know you're going to"},{"startTime":133.239,"endTime":136.679,"body":"agree that she's a breath of fresh air in a"},{"startTime":136.767,"endTime":139.983,"body":"very. What's the word I'm looking for?"},{"startTime":140.119,"endTime":143.839,"body":"Dry. We'll call it a dry"},{"startTime":143.967,"endTime":147.615,"body":"profession. So here we go. Let's talk about"},{"startTime":147.655,"endTime":151.423,"body":"Heather for a quick minute because we hit it off immediately. She is a"},{"startTime":151.479,"endTime":154.855,"body":"warrior mama, a nature lover, and a dedicated"},{"startTime":154.975,"endTime":158.449,"body":"attorney and a legal coach for entrepreneurs."},{"startTime":158.577,"endTime":161.849,"body":"She's based in Seattle and is mom to two little wild"},{"startTime":161.897,"endTime":165.617,"body":"munchkins, founder of Pierce Law and Home,"},{"startTime":165.721,"endTime":169.473,"body":"which is home to her legal practice. She's also, and this is"},{"startTime":169.489,"endTime":172.801,"body":"one of the things I really Love the creator of the legal website"},{"startTime":172.913,"endTime":176.649,"body":"Warrior, which is an online business that provides the legal education"},{"startTime":176.737,"endTime":180.121,"body":"and support to information entrepreneurs. So coaches,"},{"startTime":180.193,"endTime":184.037,"body":"consultants, online educators, speakers, authors around"},{"startTime":184.061,"endTime":187.837,"body":"the US but also around the world. Personally, she hoards"},{"startTime":187.901,"endTime":191.509,"body":"a lot of information, paper and books while she's secretly"},{"startTime":191.557,"endTime":195.269,"body":"dreaming of becoming a minimalist. How many of us have that disease?"},{"startTime":195.437,"endTime":199.277,"body":"And she relishes that occasional rare night with her husband when the kiddos"},{"startTime":199.341,"endTime":202.477,"body":"are miraculously asleep and she can soak up"},{"startTime":202.541,"endTime":206.269,"body":"HGTV without guilt. She's also the host"},{"startTime":206.317,"endTime":209.861,"body":"of the Guts, Grit and Great Business Podcast, which I'm"},{"startTime":209.893,"endTime":213.441,"body":"honored to be a guest on tomorrow. So, Heather,"},{"startTime":213.593,"endTime":217.249,"body":"welcome. Thank you, Pam. So good to connect with you."},{"startTime":217.297,"endTime":220.737,"body":"We've overlapped a couple times in our trajectories"},{"startTime":220.841,"endTime":224.489,"body":"and it's really lovely to sit down and have a conversation"},{"startTime":224.537,"endTime":228.345,"body":"with you today. I agree. And I think we both are victims of"},{"startTime":228.385,"endTime":232.153,"body":"being members of very dry professions. And when we meet"},{"startTime":232.209,"endTime":235.873,"body":"others that kind of have a spark of life and fun and just, you know,"},{"startTime":235.929,"endTime":239.685,"body":"really getting at this for all the right reasons, we tend to connect. But"},{"startTime":239.985,"endTime":243.793,"body":"interestingly, two totally different people who I don't"},{"startTime":243.809,"endTime":247.065,"body":"even think are connected themselves connected us."},{"startTime":247.185,"endTime":250.937,"body":"So you were a problem on my little mind map because I had to figure"},{"startTime":250.961,"endTime":254.785,"body":"out how to draw a couple of arrows. But tell us a little bit about"},{"startTime":254.825,"endTime":258.665,"body":"how you know the two people who connected us because that's how we'll start our"},{"startTime":258.705,"endTime":261.897,"body":"conversation here. Yeah, absolutely. So"},{"startTime":262.001,"endTime":265.525,"body":"Melissa who connected us back in the day."},{"startTime":266.625,"endTime":270.335,"body":"Melissa who, yeah, is kind of a like a Swiss"},{"startTime":270.375,"endTime":274.095,"body":"army knife for her clients, depending on what they need. Yes,"},{"startTime":274.135,"endTime":277.863,"body":"that does describe it. Shout out to Melissa. Right. And so"},{"startTime":277.879,"endTime":281.479,"body":"I've known Melissa for several years. She's become a client."},{"startTime":281.567,"endTime":285.367,"body":"We've been in touch. We actually spoke just not too long ago. So"},{"startTime":285.391,"endTime":289.159,"body":"that was the first introduction. And then Brian, who is"},{"startTime":289.207,"endTime":292.983,"body":"one of my very favorite people and also favorite clients"},{"startTime":293.079,"endTime":296.791,"body":"who, you know, I think was down. Is he still in the Phoenix"},{"startTime":296.863,"endTime":300.035,"body":"area? Yeah, at least the retreat I went to"},{"startTime":300.905,"endTime":304.545,"body":"in the Phoenix area. Totally. So we've actually never"},{"startTime":304.585,"endTime":308.417,"body":"met face to face, but he was a client for quite some time"},{"startTime":308.481,"endTime":312.113,"body":"and he has sent me many referral since and we've been in touch and I"},{"startTime":312.129,"endTime":315.841,"body":"love Brian. So yeah, he is a beautiful, beautiful soul. He really, really"},{"startTime":315.873,"endTime":319.665,"body":"is. And he shout out to Brian as well. He's got a great podcast too"},{"startTime":319.705,"endTime":322.645,"body":"now where he is really digging into people's"},{"startTime":323.145,"endTime":326.785,"body":"like, their struggles, how they've gotten through them and how they've kind of risen above"},{"startTime":326.825,"endTime":330.439,"body":"them, what we've all had. But so here what we Focus on really"},{"startTime":330.487,"endTime":334.103,"body":"is relationships. So I'm just going to ask you a couple questions because"},{"startTime":334.159,"endTime":337.567,"body":"I really, what we really want people to know when they listen to this is"},{"startTime":337.711,"endTime":341.335,"body":"it is okay to need help and it's okay to be help. And"},{"startTime":341.375,"endTime":344.075,"body":"doing this alone sucks. So"},{"startTime":345.055,"endTime":348.711,"body":"first question for you, looking back, what relationship that you've had since"},{"startTime":348.743,"endTime":352.127,"body":"you've been doing this solo and I guess first question is, how long have you"},{"startTime":352.151,"endTime":355.895,"body":"been at this? I've been practicing law now"},{"startTime":356.015,"endTime":359.827,"body":"since 2002. So yeah, we're, we"},{"startTime":359.851,"endTime":363.163,"body":"are literally bumping up to the"},{"startTime":363.219,"endTime":367.027,"body":"22 year mark almost exactly. Because the"},{"startTime":367.051,"endTime":370.867,"body":"bar exam results get released in. It's either late October,"},{"startTime":370.931,"endTime":374.659,"body":"early November. Okay. I was practicing law before then."},{"startTime":374.747,"endTime":378.515,"body":"I know I was one of those, I know I was"},{"startTime":378.555,"endTime":382.243,"body":"one of those that like, I was like, I can't wait around to make money"},{"startTime":382.339,"endTime":385.503,"body":"until. Because I launched my own practice right out of school. You did it right"},{"startTime":385.519,"endTime":388.703,"body":"out of school? Right out of school. Which was insane. That's"},{"startTime":388.759,"endTime":392.119,"body":"incredible. Yeah, I was very non"},{"startTime":392.207,"endTime":395.735,"body":"traditional person in the law and we can talk a little bit about why, but"},{"startTime":395.775,"endTime":399.471,"body":"it, I just had a very, actually start. There because I'm going to save the"},{"startTime":399.503,"endTime":402.807,"body":"question I was going to ask because I think it might become relevant. But you"},{"startTime":402.831,"endTime":406.631,"body":"did something a lot of entrepreneurs don't do. You did it right out of school."},{"startTime":406.783,"endTime":410.567,"body":"So what drove that? So a couple"},{"startTime":410.631,"endTime":413.927,"body":"things. One is I went through a law school"},{"startTime":413.991,"endTime":417.275,"body":"trajectory that was probably different than most people in law"},{"startTime":417.315,"endTime":420.771,"body":"school. And like many people, I went right from undergrad"},{"startTime":420.843,"endTime":424.507,"body":"into law school. UW also had a combination of students who"},{"startTime":424.571,"endTime":428.219,"body":"had some life experience and then came to the law program. But"},{"startTime":428.347,"endTime":430.935,"body":"I was one of those that went straight through. And,"},{"startTime":431.995,"endTime":435.715,"body":"and in my first year my mom was diagnosed like actually"},{"startTime":435.755,"endTime":439.459,"body":"within my first couple months with glioblastoma. And so her."},{"startTime":439.547,"endTime":442.973,"body":"That first year of my law school experience, I was"},{"startTime":443.029,"endTime":446.365,"body":"traveling home across the state and spending"},{"startTime":446.525,"endTime":449.797,"body":"basically Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday, Saturday,"},{"startTime":449.981,"endTime":453.661,"body":"Sunday with my family and my mom and then traveling back"},{"startTime":453.693,"endTime":457.485,"body":"to Seattle. And I would do law school Monday, Tuesday,"},{"startTime":457.565,"endTime":461.373,"body":"Wednesday and then. Wow. And so that was my whole first"},{"startTime":461.429,"endTime":465.229,"body":"year of law school at UW here in Seattle University. You got a"},{"startTime":465.237,"endTime":468.805,"body":"little drive in you, huh? I got a lot of. Well,"},{"startTime":468.845,"endTime":472.389,"body":"drive, yeah. Drive and then drive. Drive like"},{"startTime":472.477,"endTime":473.545,"body":"point. Yeah."},{"startTime":476.265,"endTime":479.785,"body":"So yeah, I, it was a lot of driving time. And"},{"startTime":479.825,"endTime":483.545,"body":"also. Yeah, it, you know, I, I was very"},{"startTime":483.625,"endTime":487.241,"body":"clear. I mean it became clear. Right. Was not a choice for any of us."},{"startTime":487.273,"endTime":491.057,"body":"But it became clear in a hurry. Law school is just a"},{"startTime":491.081,"endTime":494.873,"body":"thing you do in life. And then the whole other bigger Picture is life"},{"startTime":494.929,"endTime":498.593,"body":"itself. And, you know, things really, I think, can catalyze"},{"startTime":498.649,"endTime":502.305,"body":"just in an instant and become very clear when a life"},{"startTime":502.345,"endTime":506.001,"body":"event like that happened. Totally. And my"},{"startTime":506.033,"endTime":509.665,"body":"mom was young, she's younger than I am now, when she was diagnosed and"},{"startTime":509.705,"endTime":513.457,"body":"passed away. And so, you know, it was a journey for all of"},{"startTime":513.481,"endTime":517.321,"body":"us. And what it meant is that my journey through law"},{"startTime":517.393,"endTime":520.285,"body":"school, I very quickly"},{"startTime":520.905,"endTime":524.689,"body":"figured out I was not willing to walk somebody else's"},{"startTime":524.777,"endTime":528.409,"body":"path. I was not willing to even follow the traditional"},{"startTime":528.457,"endTime":532.281,"body":"advice around. Here's how you have to do things in order to"},{"startTime":532.313,"endTime":535.665,"body":"get to, you know, point Z. You have to do"},{"startTime":535.705,"endTime":539.001,"body":"ABC and blah, blah, blah. And it, you"},{"startTime":539.033,"endTime":542.849,"body":"know, lost. Was that in your nature before your mom"},{"startTime":542.897,"endTime":546.485,"body":"got so sick, or do you think it was because your mom got so sick?"},{"startTime":547.225,"endTime":550.593,"body":"Appreciation for that's a really good question."},{"startTime":550.729,"endTime":554.369,"body":"Yeah, I think it was in my nature before that."},{"startTime":554.457,"endTime":558.245,"body":"Yeah, I was an unusual kid in a. In a variety of ways, but."},{"startTime":558.965,"endTime":562.309,"body":"But that really crystallized it, like, from the"},{"startTime":562.357,"endTime":566.133,"body":"standpoint of, you know, when you're faced literally with"},{"startTime":566.309,"endTime":569.837,"body":"the death of somebody that is so dear to you, you know,"},{"startTime":569.941,"endTime":573.565,"body":"it. It changes your perspective on timelines."},{"startTime":573.645,"endTime":577.237,"body":"It changes your perspective on how you spend your own"},{"startTime":577.301,"endTime":580.965,"body":"time in life. And I just, you know, as I"},{"startTime":581.005,"endTime":584.671,"body":"progressed and she passed away the start of my second year, and as I"},{"startTime":584.743,"endTime":588.559,"body":"finished my. Yeah, we had 10. 10"},{"startTime":588.607,"endTime":591.887,"body":"months with her. So that was a really"},{"startTime":591.951,"endTime":595.287,"body":"rough journey. And also, you"},{"startTime":595.311,"endTime":599.015,"body":"know, dramatically influenced my perspective on what I was"},{"startTime":599.055,"endTime":602.591,"body":"willing to do and not willing to do. And I think unless you"},{"startTime":602.663,"endTime":606.471,"body":"have those kinds of times where you're"},{"startTime":606.543,"endTime":610.103,"body":"really forced through a vigorous examination"},{"startTime":610.239,"endTime":613.945,"body":"of your choices and your potential choices."},{"startTime":614.025,"endTime":617.729,"body":"Yeah, you don't always choose in the most"},{"startTime":617.817,"endTime":621.305,"body":"clear way what is for you and what is not for"},{"startTime":621.345,"endTime":625.105,"body":"you. And so for me, it, you know, it started with"},{"startTime":625.145,"endTime":628.105,"body":"that. And then as I started to go through the interview process, I mean, I"},{"startTime":628.145,"endTime":631.865,"body":"interviewed at big firms down. Oh, you did interview? Oh, yeah. I"},{"startTime":631.905,"endTime":635.697,"body":"went through the traditional path. I. I mean, in some ways,"},{"startTime":635.761,"endTime":639.405,"body":"because you participate in the, you know, the whole. Oh, got it."},{"startTime":640.785,"endTime":644.125,"body":"Yeah. And. And so I interviewed at big firms"},{"startTime":644.205,"endTime":647.973,"body":"downtown. And at the same time, walking"},{"startTime":648.029,"endTime":651.185,"body":"through those firms, I was like,"},{"startTime":652.885,"endTime":656.465,"body":"this is not for me. In one of my interviews,"},{"startTime":657.085,"endTime":660.925,"body":"it was like a roundtable interview. There were 10 attorneys"},{"startTime":661.045,"endTime":663.665,"body":"and one or two women."},{"startTime":664.725,"endTime":668.045,"body":"And when I got to an"},{"startTime":668.085,"endTime":671.477,"body":"individual pull out with one of the women, where we went into her"},{"startTime":671.541,"endTime":675.231,"body":"office, I said, how is it. How is it"},{"startTime":675.263,"endTime":679.095,"body":"to work out this firm as a woman? She got up and"},{"startTime":679.135,"endTime":682.639,"body":"closed the door and got back to her desk and"},{"startTime":682.687,"endTime":686.175,"body":"said, it's not great. Wow. I was like, thank God for her."},{"startTime":686.215,"endTime":689.927,"body":"Honesty and passing that on. Right, right. I was like, boom, done. That's"},{"startTime":689.951,"endTime":693.695,"body":"all I really need to know. Is that a partner that did that? Bless"},{"startTime":693.735,"endTime":697.543,"body":"her heart. Yeah. So. So, you know,"},{"startTime":697.599,"endTime":701.275,"body":"and, and based on that, I, I just was like, nope, I'm not."},{"startTime":701.435,"endTime":705.059,"body":"Like, I'm just not going to participate in a system that I, I"},{"startTime":705.107,"endTime":708.723,"body":"can't support and that doesn't provide like even walking"},{"startTime":708.819,"endTime":712.635,"body":"through. I mean whether you call it intuition or just paying"},{"startTime":712.675,"endTime":716.395,"body":"attention to humans, this whole relationship thing, how they"},{"startTime":716.475,"endTime":720.291,"body":"looked, how their energy felt, whether they had closed door or"},{"startTime":720.323,"endTime":724.083,"body":"open door offices, it so. Young to pick up"},{"startTime":724.099,"endTime":727.881,"body":"on those things. I was clueless in my twenties, like"},{"startTime":728.003,"endTime":731.613,"body":"clueless. But some of what you're describing kind of didn't come to me till I"},{"startTime":731.629,"endTime":735.413,"body":"got much older, so. And interestingly, my dad died when I"},{"startTime":735.429,"endTime":738.905,"body":"was young too. A lot younger though, so I was still very much in"},{"startTime":739.725,"endTime":743.493,"body":"self 12 year old narcissistic mode. Right. I wasn't adult enough"},{"startTime":743.549,"endTime":746.957,"body":"probably to make that same connection that you did and followed a very"},{"startTime":747.021,"endTime":750.665,"body":"traditional path. Now I loved it every bit of the way, but"},{"startTime":751.365,"endTime":754.701,"body":"I just love the insight you had at that age. That's incredible."},{"startTime":754.773,"endTime":758.051,"body":"So. Well, I'm going to change my first question a little bit based on"},{"startTime":758.083,"endTime":761.495,"body":"that. In school then you probably had counselors"},{"startTime":761.795,"endTime":765.603,"body":"or teachers and then you probably had some maybe mentors in the profession. I"},{"startTime":765.619,"endTime":769.371,"body":"don't know. Did anybody align with how"},{"startTime":769.403,"endTime":773.043,"body":"you were thinking and like encourage the approach you were taking"},{"startTime":773.099,"endTime":775.615,"body":"at all? Anybody stand out as."},{"startTime":776.915,"endTime":780.595,"body":"Absolutely. I was one of maybe"},{"startTime":780.675,"endTime":784.271,"body":"eight kids that took issues in solo practice"},{"startTime":784.343,"endTime":788.079,"body":"class my third year of law school. Okay. Eight kids, that's it."},{"startTime":788.247,"endTime":790.995,"body":"Very small tells you how"},{"startTime":791.735,"endTime":795.111,"body":"challenging of a pathway that was perceived."},{"startTime":795.303,"endTime":799.087,"body":"Right. And most people either got funneled into big law, medium sized"},{"startTime":799.151,"endTime":802.855,"body":"law, or government work. That's just how law school"},{"startTime":802.935,"endTime":806.727,"body":"changes the landscape for you. You come in with big ideas and you leave kind"},{"startTime":806.751,"endTime":810.493,"body":"of fitting this mold for the most part. And so I sat through that"},{"startTime":810.549,"endTime":813.745,"body":"class and I just remember thinking like,"},{"startTime":814.485,"endTime":818.149,"body":"this is doable, like, and not that I had any amount"},{"startTime":818.197,"endTime":821.957,"body":"of confidence related to me being able to"},{"startTime":821.981,"endTime":825.677,"body":"do it, but like, you know what, like some people, and I'm not saying like"},{"startTime":825.741,"endTime":829.181,"body":"do it right out of law school, that maybe it wasn't necessarily, but the"},{"startTime":829.213,"endTime":832.997,"body":"closer that I got, the less everything else seemed like"},{"startTime":833.021,"endTime":836.749,"body":"a fit. Right. And so. And if"},{"startTime":836.757,"endTime":840.477,"body":"you talk to anybody in law as a young person like, oh, I"},{"startTime":840.501,"endTime":844.317,"body":"wanted to do international law or even"},{"startTime":844.381,"endTime":848.077,"body":"environmental law, which again is a very unique niche to get"},{"startTime":848.101,"endTime":851.741,"body":"Yourself into. There's limited spots for that. Okay."},{"startTime":851.933,"endTime":855.541,"body":"But international law, they'll tell you, like, oh, well, nobody comes out of law school"},{"startTime":855.573,"endTime":859.237,"body":"and just does international. Like, you got to work for a while before you"},{"startTime":859.261,"endTime":862.957,"body":"go. But it's that kind of chronic messaging of, like, no, you"},{"startTime":862.981,"endTime":865.413,"body":"don't really get to do work you want to do. You have to do all"},{"startTime":865.429,"endTime":869.133,"body":"this other work for a while. And I just wasn't willing"},{"startTime":869.229,"endTime":872.957,"body":"to do it. Yeah. Was there any fear or trepidation?"},{"startTime":873.021,"endTime":876.741,"body":"Like, did you know what you were in for? I absolutely did"},{"startTime":876.773,"endTime":880.549,"body":"not know what I was in. Probably Right. I was living in"},{"startTime":880.597,"endTime":884.445,"body":"a studio apartment at the time. I literally,"},{"startTime":884.525,"endTime":888.333,"body":"like, got a divider, like, because I had. I had to do something to, you"},{"startTime":888.349,"endTime":892.053,"body":"know, to, like, create a workspace. This was still. I mean, we're talking, you"},{"startTime":892.069,"endTime":895.755,"body":"know, 22 years ago. I made my own letterhead."},{"startTime":895.835,"endTime":899.255,"body":"I printed off little business cards. I emailed."},{"startTime":900.155,"endTime":903.611,"body":"I went to law school with the guy who wrote Excel for"},{"startTime":903.643,"endTime":907.051,"body":"Microsoft. And the whole reason. Yeah, the whole"},{"startTime":907.123,"endTime":910.963,"body":"reason he was going to law school. He didn't need to be employed ever"},{"startTime":911.019,"endTime":914.643,"body":"again in his life, but he wanted to donate."},{"startTime":914.779,"endTime":917.815,"body":"Donate the rest of his career to the aclu."},{"startTime":918.235,"endTime":922.011,"body":"Wow. That was the sole reason for going to law school. And we were also"},{"startTime":922.083,"endTime":925.581,"body":"jealous of him. And I've told this story once or twice before, but he was"},{"startTime":925.613,"endTime":928.877,"body":"the one I put kid in air quotes. He was an adult. He was the"},{"startTime":928.901,"endTime":932.733,"body":"one kid at law school that had two sets of books. He"},{"startTime":932.749,"endTime":936.597,"body":"could leave a set of his books at home, and the rest of us were"},{"startTime":936.621,"endTime":940.429,"body":"lugging around like, backpacks that weighed a hundred pounds. It was before"},{"startTime":940.477,"endTime":944.125,"body":"the iPad. Your books on your iPad. Oh, my gosh, it was"},{"startTime":944.165,"endTime":947.485,"body":"insane. We were so jealous of him. Right. Both of his"},{"startTime":947.645,"endTime":951.293,"body":"intellectual capacity that he did not have to look at the same book that"},{"startTime":951.309,"endTime":955.133,"body":"he'd read or highlighted or put notes in, you know, the day before."},{"startTime":955.269,"endTime":958.783,"body":"Yep. Anyways, he was a really interesting person, but I used"},{"startTime":958.839,"endTime":962.439,"body":"Excel talking about relationships to set up"},{"startTime":962.527,"endTime":965.631,"body":"my first outreach campaign, my first"},{"startTime":965.783,"endTime":969.599,"body":"database. Again, in air quotes. Right. This is pre ne"},{"startTime":969.767,"endTime":973.527,"body":"that I have used since. Yep. And I just put myself on a"},{"startTime":973.551,"endTime":976.735,"body":"schedule of outreach. I didn't know anybody. I knew"},{"startTime":976.775,"endTime":980.407,"body":"instinctively, though, it was about relationships, if that's what you did first."},{"startTime":980.511,"endTime":984.307,"body":"Oh, totally. I just knew. Even in a down market. Because the other thing"},{"startTime":984.331,"endTime":988.031,"body":"is, I graduated in 029 11, right after Enron."},{"startTime":988.119,"endTime":991.811,"body":"Well. And yeah, 911 had just happened. Right thing."},{"startTime":991.963,"endTime":995.595,"body":"Doors were closing. Companies were putting moratoriums"},{"startTime":995.635,"endTime":999.307,"body":"on hiring, on any growth trajectories. For a time. It was"},{"startTime":999.331,"endTime":1003.099,"body":"A really weird time. And by weird, it was the worst time in 30"},{"startTime":1003.147,"endTime":1006.915,"body":"years to be graduating from law school. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. And so"},{"startTime":1006.955,"endTime":1010.307,"body":"I just. But I thought, you know what? There's work out there. The work is"},{"startTime":1010.331,"endTime":1013.993,"body":"going to shift, and you just have to know people to get the work."},{"startTime":1014.049,"endTime":1017.817,"body":"And I can do people. So I just put myself on"},{"startTime":1017.841,"endTime":1021.553,"body":"an outreach campaign, and it really didn't matter, like, if your name ended up in"},{"startTime":1021.569,"endTime":1024.937,"body":"the newspaper and it was about some case. I was going to call you that"},{"startTime":1024.961,"endTime":1028.729,"body":"week. If you. If you called me because I had my car for sale and"},{"startTime":1028.737,"endTime":1031.497,"body":"I learned you an attorney, I was going to call you back and be like,"},{"startTime":1031.521,"endTime":1035.321,"body":"hey, can we go have lunch? I want to learn about your career. I"},{"startTime":1035.393,"endTime":1039.217,"body":"love it. So I just put myself on a trajectory of one meeting"},{"startTime":1039.281,"endTime":1042.991,"body":"per day, face to face. Love that. Within months, I"},{"startTime":1043.023,"endTime":1046.855,"body":"had more work than I knew what to do with. And that's all that it"},{"startTime":1046.895,"endTime":1050.391,"body":"took was getting face to face with people."},{"startTime":1050.583,"endTime":1054.311,"body":"I want to unpack that because this is one of the things that's just"},{"startTime":1054.343,"endTime":1057.975,"body":"so true, whether you're on a career path and you're looking for a new job"},{"startTime":1058.055,"endTime":1061.879,"body":"or whether you're an entrepreneur. And I was just talking about this with one of"},{"startTime":1061.887,"endTime":1065.711,"body":"my coaches this morning. Is the work is"},{"startTime":1065.743,"endTime":1069.399,"body":"the relationships. You don't have to"},{"startTime":1069.447,"endTime":1072.635,"body":"chase the money. Right."},{"startTime":1073.615,"endTime":1077.127,"body":"I don't even know how to articulate it. Well, you knew going"},{"startTime":1077.191,"endTime":1080.127,"body":"in, I'm just going to talk to people. I'm going to make friends and talk"},{"startTime":1080.151,"endTime":1083.991,"body":"to people. That leads to the stuff you don't have to"},{"startTime":1084.023,"endTime":1087.719,"body":"make. You can almost make the relationships the goal, and out"},{"startTime":1087.767,"endTime":1091.487,"body":"comes the rest. And that's what's so amazingly cool about it. And"},{"startTime":1091.511,"endTime":1094.805,"body":"I would bet that. And this is something that."},{"startTime":1095.105,"endTime":1098.609,"body":"An interesting question for me is, is there somebody along the way"},{"startTime":1098.657,"endTime":1102.321,"body":"that, like, very casual relationship that you have that"},{"startTime":1102.353,"endTime":1106.017,"body":"just ended up being, like, making a huge impact on"},{"startTime":1106.041,"endTime":1109.889,"body":"your trajectory? Like somebody that you just, you know, oh,"},{"startTime":1109.937,"endTime":1113.369,"body":"hi, how are you? But they ended up being absolutely."},{"startTime":1113.457,"endTime":1116.793,"body":"So multiple people along the way. I'll speak"},{"startTime":1116.849,"endTime":1120.409,"body":"primarily about one. And, you know, people"},{"startTime":1120.537,"endTime":1124.329,"body":"show up for you in different ways. Here's what I was really surprised about in"},{"startTime":1124.377,"endTime":1128.001,"body":"doing this level of outreach. And, you know, a lot of people would, like,"},{"startTime":1128.073,"endTime":1131.085,"body":"call it cold calling or, you know, whatever."},{"startTime":1132.345,"endTime":1136.161,"body":"I. I saw it as just connecting. And I would, like,"},{"startTime":1136.313,"endTime":1140.025,"body":"research the person, research their work, research their PR. It didn't"},{"startTime":1140.065,"endTime":1142.765,"body":"take long. I'm a fast reader. 30 minutes."},{"startTime":1143.825,"endTime":1147.281,"body":"Totally. And I knew about show interest. You had interest?"},{"startTime":1147.393,"endTime":1151.089,"body":"Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, There was some element"},{"startTime":1151.137,"endTime":1154.525,"body":"of preparing for every time I met somebody. But also"},{"startTime":1155.425,"endTime":1159.137,"body":"along the way, like, people just become a mentor."},{"startTime":1159.201,"endTime":1162.857,"body":"They see, like, oh, this is a young person I can help. And I think"},{"startTime":1162.921,"endTime":1166.361,"body":"I was, I was good at being humble. Meaning, like, I don't know how to"},{"startTime":1166.393,"endTime":1170.089,"body":"do this and love it. One of the biggest skills I learned"},{"startTime":1170.177,"endTime":1173.947,"body":"over the course of my early career is like, you don't have to have all"},{"startTime":1173.971,"endTime":1177.483,"body":"the answers. You just have to know how to ask for help"},{"startTime":1177.539,"endTime":1181.235,"body":"from somebody who does. You don't even have to know all the questions."},{"startTime":1181.355,"endTime":1184.971,"body":"No, you don't. And, and I mean, I have some funny"},{"startTime":1185.003,"endTime":1188.739,"body":"examples around that where like, I used the wrong terminology. I didn't even say"},{"startTime":1188.787,"endTime":1192.627,"body":"the word right. An attorney would be looking at me being like, let me help"},{"startTime":1192.651,"endTime":1195.203,"body":"you. You don't know what you're talking about. And I'm like, you're right. This is"},{"startTime":1195.219,"endTime":1198.763,"body":"why I'm here asking for help. And I think some people are really"},{"startTime":1198.819,"endTime":1201.717,"body":"afraid to like, be that"},{"startTime":1201.861,"endTime":1205.685,"body":"obvious. Yeah, that kind of learner's mind and beginner's"},{"startTime":1205.725,"endTime":1209.397,"body":"mind because there's such a need for us all to feel competent"},{"startTime":1209.461,"endTime":1213.133,"body":"and, you know, demonstrate that we know what we're doing. And I would say one"},{"startTime":1213.149,"endTime":1216.821,"body":"of the biggest lessons I've learned throughout my career is"},{"startTime":1216.893,"endTime":1220.637,"body":"everybody is winging it. Everybody. I"},{"startTime":1220.661,"endTime":1224.485,"body":"love that. And isn't that interesting when it really becomes"},{"startTime":1224.565,"endTime":1228.357,"body":"evident? Yeah. And it's, and it's not winging it"},{"startTime":1228.381,"endTime":1232.173,"body":"in a bad way, but basically each new scenario is"},{"startTime":1232.189,"endTime":1235.905,"body":"a new scenario, new set of facts and problems,"},{"startTime":1235.945,"endTime":1239.521,"body":"and all you can bring is your problem solving to"},{"startTime":1239.593,"endTime":1243.313,"body":"that problem. Like whatever your field is. Right. Your experience, your filters,"},{"startTime":1243.369,"endTime":1246.593,"body":"all of that contributes. But the truth of the matter is you've never seen that"},{"startTime":1246.649,"endTime":1250.281,"body":"situation before. So you're putting everything you have to work for"},{"startTime":1250.313,"endTime":1253.241,"body":"it. But in a way, we're winging. And I honestly think that's a big part"},{"startTime":1253.273,"endTime":1256.473,"body":"of what people confuse and say is imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":1256.609,"endTime":1260.361,"body":"Yes. And it's not imposter syndrome if you're really good at"},{"startTime":1260.473,"endTime":1264.201,"body":"applying what you have to the next thing, you're really good at what you do."},{"startTime":1264.313,"endTime":1267.937,"body":"Yeah. And yet you're winging it. Totally."},{"startTime":1268.121,"endTime":1271.953,"body":"And the open mindedness. So you asked about a key person. So a"},{"startTime":1271.969,"endTime":1275.681,"body":"few years into my career, I'd gotten myself onto this massive"},{"startTime":1275.753,"endTime":1278.925,"body":"piece of litigation where I was essentially,"},{"startTime":1279.385,"endTime":1282.929,"body":"for lack of a better word, I was like the litigation custodian for our"},{"startTime":1282.977,"endTime":1286.385,"body":"team. So there was about 200,000 pages of"},{"startTime":1286.425,"endTime":1290.057,"body":"documentation. It was a massive construction"},{"startTime":1290.121,"endTime":1293.641,"body":"defect case involving some really high ups at Microsoft"},{"startTime":1293.713,"endTime":1297.553,"body":"and anyways, it was a significant local"},{"startTime":1297.609,"endTime":1301.071,"body":"case. At any given point you might have had 30, 40,"},{"startTime":1301.149,"endTime":1304.969,"body":"50 attorneys involved in this case because you had"},{"startTime":1305.057,"endTime":1308.721,"body":"contractors, you had subcontractors, you had insurance"},{"startTime":1308.793,"endTime":1312.425,"body":"companies of various kinds belonging to all these businesses. Like it was"},{"startTime":1312.465,"endTime":1316.041,"body":"a very communication"},{"startTime":1316.193,"endTime":1319.945,"body":"and discovery intensive case. And so my job was to"},{"startTime":1319.985,"endTime":1323.769,"body":"manage all of this. And the, the case had largely"},{"startTime":1323.817,"endTime":1327.401,"body":"been with one firm and then they got connected to another firm who"},{"startTime":1327.433,"endTime":1330.953,"body":"brought in counsel. I mean they brought in counsel from the second firm."},{"startTime":1331.009,"endTime":1334.497,"body":"And this was a guy's name's Peter Buck, who I ended up"},{"startTime":1334.561,"endTime":1338.033,"body":"working with on many follow on cases."},{"startTime":1338.169,"endTime":1341.889,"body":"Okay. And so even though I was independent, I, I"},{"startTime":1341.937,"endTime":1345.601,"body":"would do my own work and have my own clients, but then I"},{"startTime":1345.633,"endTime":1349.411,"body":"would also hire myself onto some of"},{"startTime":1349.443,"endTime":1352.979,"body":"these big cases so that I could continue to get mentoring"},{"startTime":1353.027,"endTime":1356.747,"body":"from really established attorneys. And it was just"},{"startTime":1356.811,"endTime":1360.579,"body":"a great combination for me because I was good at finding"},{"startTime":1360.627,"endTime":1364.307,"body":"mentors. They people are generally very generous."},{"startTime":1364.371,"endTime":1367.947,"body":"Even attorneys who can have a bad name if like"},{"startTime":1368.051,"endTime":1371.667,"body":"it's. Anyways, that's a whole nother conversation. And so this"},{"startTime":1371.691,"endTime":1375.357,"body":"guy, I ended up working with him for years in this"},{"startTime":1375.421,"endTime":1379.085,"body":"kind of, you know, collaborative but independent capacity and"},{"startTime":1379.245,"endTime":1382.629,"body":"learned so much from his approach to"},{"startTime":1382.717,"endTime":1386.549,"body":"thinking, to problem solving, to law. And it was this"},{"startTime":1386.597,"endTime":1389.869,"body":"extreme open mindedness of like we can shift at any"},{"startTime":1389.917,"endTime":1393.581,"body":"time based on what we learn. And also there are"},{"startTime":1393.613,"endTime":1397.157,"body":"no mistakes. Who says that in law? Like who? Nobody says"},{"startTime":1397.181,"endTime":1400.861,"body":"that, but it's so true law. You don't know what's going to"},{"startTime":1400.893,"endTime":1404.325,"body":"happen. No. And nobody says that. And even when you make"},{"startTime":1404.405,"endTime":1408.245,"body":"mistakes, those are inevitable. They're inevitable in any career, in"},{"startTime":1408.285,"endTime":1412.061,"body":"any pathway. You're going to learn through those mistakes. And he was just a big"},{"startTime":1412.093,"endTime":1415.709,"body":"proponent of taking that pressure off and being like, look, I'm going to push"},{"startTime":1415.757,"endTime":1419.573,"body":"you and I'm going to have you. Like one example, there was an"},{"startTime":1419.589,"endTime":1423.045,"body":"attorney in our office who we brought in from Oregon, had not"},{"startTime":1423.085,"endTime":1426.807,"body":"yet passed the Washington bar. Pete forgot this"},{"startTime":1426.901,"endTime":1430.627,"body":"and we had a deposition the next day on this particular case"},{"startTime":1430.811,"endTime":1434.323,"body":"and this was not my case. And Pete comes to me at like"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1434.379,"endTime":1437.931,"body":"00, end of day, like on a Monday. Hey Heather,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1438.083,"endTime":1441.443,"body":"there's a like the key deposition in this case that has to happen"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1441.499,"endTime":1444.135,"body":"tomorrow. I need you to take it."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1445.475,"endTime":1449.275,"body":"And I was like, okay, where's the project binder? He's like, no,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1449.355,"endTime":1452.851,"body":"you're, I'm not letting you hyper focus on this tonight or do"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1452.923,"endTime":1456.763,"body":"anything by way of preparation. You just show up tomorrow and you're going to"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1456.779,"endTime":1460.339,"body":"ask every question under the sun and It'll be fine. I remember"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1460.387,"endTime":1462.855,"body":"thinking, oh my gosh. Wow."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1463.635,"endTime":1467.339,"body":"And it's going to sound like"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1467.387,"endTime":1470.883,"body":"it. What? I. It's exactly what I did. I showed up the next day,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1470.979,"endTime":1474.731,"body":"I handled the deposition based on everything we got out of that"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1474.763,"endTime":1478.283,"body":"deposition. We ended up bringing a summary"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1478.339,"endTime":1481.796,"body":"judgment against the other party. We ended up bringing a CR11, which"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1481.937,"endTime":1485.695,"body":"CR11 for people that don't know. Like, you've got rules"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1485.735,"endTime":1489.479,"body":"of professional conduct that apply to your profession. Yes, right. I've got"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1489.527,"endTime":1492.991,"body":"rules of professional conduct that apply to my profession. If you're in any"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1493.103,"endTime":1496.807,"body":"licensed profession, you've. Got these, these license, get expelled and all"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1496.831,"endTime":1500.315,"body":"the things. Right, Totally. Yeah. And so."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1500.655,"endTime":1503.315,"body":"Right. And if you bring a frivolous lawsuit."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1504.055,"endTime":1507.793,"body":"Right. You're in violation of CR11. And so"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1507.939,"endTime":1511.505,"body":"CR11, once we took the deposition and realized how"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1511.545,"endTime":1515.041,"body":"much information and proof was missing on the other"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1515.113,"endTime":1518.449,"body":"side, you can bring a CR11 sanctions"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1518.537,"endTime":1521.969,"body":"motion against. It's not even against the opposing party, it's against"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1522.017,"endTime":1525.609,"body":"opposing counsel. Wow. We got"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1525.737,"endTime":1529.257,"body":"over 75 or $80,000 in"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1529.321,"endTime":1533.081,"body":"fees against opposing counsel because of this case. And it was"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1533.113,"endTime":1536.689,"body":"purely based on the deposition I took and it was not my"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1536.737,"endTime":1540.305,"body":"case. And then the follow up, the follow up"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1540.345,"endTime":1543.817,"body":"CR11 motion, which I drafted. And this is,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1543.961,"endTime":1547.785,"body":"this is the. It's both the irony of what"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1547.825,"endTime":1551.041,"body":"can happen when we get into a profession and we think we need to have"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1551.073,"endTime":1554.905,"body":"all the answers. Yep, Yep. Really, we need to just be"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1554.945,"endTime":1558.793,"body":"willing to go look for all the answers. That is so,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1558.929,"endTime":1562.601,"body":"so key and not feel deficient when we don't have"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1562.633,"endTime":1566.377,"body":"them. And that goes for me still today, there are questions where I'm"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1566.401,"endTime":1570.073,"body":"like, you know what? Well, actually, probably for you as well, nine times out of"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1570.089,"endTime":1573.737,"body":"10 when there's a complex question, I don't know the answer, but I know where"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1573.761,"endTime":1577.577,"body":"to look or I know what to dig up or I know how to"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1577.601,"endTime":1580.593,"body":"think about it. And I think that's probably the same for you as well. But"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1580.689,"endTime":1584.489,"body":"so you really had like an awesome mentor as you were"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1584.537,"endTime":1588.297,"body":"coming up. And we're also getting paid at the same"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1588.321,"endTime":1591.689,"body":"time. And I think that's a really key point. You know, seek out other people"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1591.857,"endTime":1595.577,"body":"who are doing what you're doing and work alongside them, Pull"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1595.601,"endTime":1599.045,"body":"up alongside them and watch what they do. I just love that."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1599.505,"endTime":1603.245,"body":"Yeah. And on that point, I think it's really important,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1604.345,"endTime":1607.793,"body":"especially for young people, anybody who's early in their"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1607.929,"endTime":1611.673,"body":"career, early in their work, to also be very careful"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1611.729,"endTime":1615.577,"body":"in who you decide to pull up alongside. Right."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1615.641,"endTime":1619.217,"body":"And this is in part because I think a lot of young People can be"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1619.241,"endTime":1622.765,"body":"like, well, I don't know the answer, so they must be doing it right."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1623.465,"endTime":1627.041,"body":"But you can always run that gut check and that ethics"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1627.113,"endTime":1630.689,"body":"check of like, is this how I want to be doing business"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1630.777,"endTime":1634.369,"body":"or how I want to be practicing? And I think if"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1634.417,"endTime":1637.405,"body":"more people felt free to actually"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1638.025,"endTime":1641.405,"body":"really question the status quo and question the system,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1641.705,"endTime":1645.473,"body":"we would have more people being more creative in their"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1645.529,"endTime":1649.155,"body":"businesses, in their practices, and not trying to just look like the rest of the"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1649.195,"endTime":1653.027,"body":"marketplace. I agree so completely. And it's part of why I really"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1653.051,"endTime":1655.535,"body":"enjoy working with entrepreneurs now is because"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1656.195,"endTime":1659.851,"body":"this generation of entrepreneurs, and I guess"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1659.883,"endTime":1663.627,"body":"it's kind of Gen X down to whatever the current generation is, I lose. Track"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1663.651,"endTime":1666.935,"body":"of all the right gen Z gen generation,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1668.595,"endTime":1672.099,"body":"I don't know, but they. Think differently and they challenge the"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1672.147,"endTime":1675.785,"body":"status quo. And all of the things that I"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1675.825,"endTime":1679.521,"body":"didn't like about how business was done in corporate, they're just challenging them"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1679.553,"endTime":1683.241,"body":"left and right. And I think that's really important because especially when we're"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1683.273,"endTime":1686.713,"body":"young or just stepping into entrepreneurial roles after we've come out of"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1686.729,"endTime":1690.201,"body":"corporate, it's like walking into a desert from a jungle"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1690.353,"endTime":1694.057,"body":"or vice versa. We don't trust ourselves and we start to"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1694.081,"endTime":1697.285,"body":"question our gut. And there is a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1697.625,"endTime":1701.371,"body":"plethora of people who will try to give you advice and trust your"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1701.403,"endTime":1704.891,"body":"gut is what I would say if it doesn't feel right. Yeah. Even if you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1704.923,"endTime":1708.635,"body":"can't articulate it, it's worth stepping back. And"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1708.715,"endTime":1712.363,"body":"maybe that's not the right person. You should feel completely aligned with whoever"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1712.419,"endTime":1716.171,"body":"you're working with. And I think that's something we often forget. I know you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1716.203,"endTime":1718.523,"body":"learned so much of this at a young age. I didn't learn it till I"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1718.539,"endTime":1722.387,"body":"was 50 or 60. But to really trust my gut, I think"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1722.411,"endTime":1726.123,"body":"that's really, really cool. Okay, one more and then I'll let you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1726.139,"endTime":1729.957,"body":"go. I've held you for a long time here, but did you have a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1729.981,"endTime":1733.773,"body":"time at any point in your business and where things were kind"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1733.789,"endTime":1737.621,"body":"of in desperate straits, like it went south on you for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1737.653,"endTime":1741.269,"body":"a little while for whatever reason, you know, and certainly coming right out of school,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1741.437,"endTime":1744.821,"body":"you. You built a pattern right away that would serve you, I'm"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1744.853,"endTime":1748.237,"body":"sure, throughout the career, but maybe it was at that very"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1748.301,"endTime":1751.925,"body":"beginning. Is there a particular relationship that"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1752.005,"endTime":1755.725,"body":"helps save. Help you save your business or that"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1755.765,"endTime":1758.385,"body":"turned you around and you're thinking about it maybe?"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1760.985,"endTime":1764.569,"body":"Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, I think there have been various"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1764.737,"endTime":1768.097,"body":"people. If you've been in business, you know, for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1768.161,"endTime":1771.969,"body":"decades, you recognize various people. Have become"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1772.057,"endTime":1775.553,"body":"lifelines in some either big or small way. You"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1775.569,"endTime":1778.765,"body":"know, along the way, those people that shape us."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1783.915,"endTime":1787.635,"body":"There we go. Okay, so yeah, no worries. Real estate."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1787.755,"endTime":1791.427,"body":"Yeah. So there, there was a point, and this was around the time"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1791.451,"endTime":1794.979,"body":"that I had my son, where even though I'd"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1795.027,"endTime":1798.707,"body":"always been non traditional in the law, I really believed I"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1798.731,"endTime":1802.427,"body":"could come up with a model to do it better. And it's funny how"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1802.451,"endTime":1806.003,"body":"you kind of get forced into those positions sometimes,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1806.099,"endTime":1808.495,"body":"right? So"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1809.445,"endTime":1813.197,"body":"I like the exact moment where I was like,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1813.261,"endTime":1815.985,"body":"something has to change. I had just"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1816.565,"endTime":1820.229,"body":"purchased a new Mac laptop, I was"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1820.277,"endTime":1823.317,"body":"breastfeeding my son. I had a real estate"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1823.461,"endTime":1826.925,"body":"closing that was not of my necessary"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1827.005,"endTime":1830.733,"body":"choice. This was actually a individual in my life who kind"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1830.749,"endTime":1834.317,"body":"of forced it on me. And out of obligation I felt like, oh my gosh,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1834.341,"endTime":1838.157,"body":"I've got to handle this for them. And so I had"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1838.181,"endTime":1841.797,"body":"a, like, oh, so much work to do. First of all, a real"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1841.821,"endTime":1845.581,"body":"estate closing of that size, typically it's going to take months to prepare for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1845.613,"endTime":1849.253,"body":"and you're going to have a team. It was like a commercial closing. Is"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1849.269,"endTime":1852.621,"body":"that commercial? Yeah. Basically the bank was going to"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1852.653,"endTime":1856.397,"body":"repo a piece of property and this, this person would have not"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1856.421,"endTime":1859.541,"body":"only lost their investment in the property, but their home had been"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1859.613,"endTime":1863.437,"body":"mortgaged in order to, you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1863.461,"endTime":1867.253,"body":"know, to hang on to or acquire that property. So they would have lost more"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1867.309,"endTime":1870.805,"body":"than just the commercial property. It was a really high pressure situation."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1870.965,"endTime":1874.789,"body":"There were multiple people involved on the back end and"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1874.917,"endTime":1878.645,"body":"yeah. And anyways, the, the short of the story"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1878.725,"endTime":1881.665,"body":"is that it was a complete and total circus"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1882.445,"endTime":1886.261,"body":"and I got it done in a week. We got a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1886.293,"endTime":1890.007,"body":"hard. Yes, with a baby and a hard money lender that had"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1890.031,"endTime":1893.847,"body":"to step in and take over the financing so that this whole thing didn't"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1893.911,"endTime":1897.487,"body":"fall apart. Putting new documentation in place."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1897.551,"endTime":1901.315,"body":"Anyways, it was a complete mess."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1901.975,"endTime":1905.807,"body":"Cluster, absolute cluster. Yes. And with a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1905.831,"endTime":1909.487,"body":"new baby and trying to breastfeed, like it was just the worst"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1909.551,"endTime":1913.343,"body":"combination. And I just remember thinking there has to be a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1913.399,"endTime":1916.753,"body":"different way, like these timeline"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1916.889,"endTime":1920.721,"body":"intensive projects that are beyond my control because"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1920.753,"endTime":1924.245,"body":"some of them just are, you know, like this is not,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1924.665,"endTime":1928.401,"body":"not only this is not how like my career in legal should be, but"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1928.473,"endTime":1932.169,"body":"also proactively. There's"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1932.217,"endTime":1935.977,"body":"more that can be done for a certain subset of clients."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1936.081,"endTime":1939.841,"body":"How do I create a model that is proactive instead"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1939.873,"endTime":1943.609,"body":"of letting people get to the point of cross crisis where really terrible things are"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1943.657,"endTime":1947.425,"body":"happening. And you know, it was that moment in combination"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1947.505,"endTime":1951.289,"body":"with a lot of creative thinking that, you know, turned into my second business."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1951.337,"endTime":1954.205,"body":"The legal website Warrior and"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1954.945,"endTime":1958.337,"body":"because one of my favorite clients all along the way had been"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1958.441,"endTime":1962.145,"body":"entrepreneurs and small business owners. Got it. And that's where you found"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1962.185,"endTime":1965.849,"body":"your passion too. Totally. And it had always been my passion."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1965.897,"endTime":1969.505,"body":"It just evolved into like this more obvious scenario."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1969.585,"endTime":1973.323,"body":"And then, you know, your next question about anybody who really catalyzed"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1973.339,"endTime":1977.015,"body":"that along the way. I immediately hired a business coach to help me"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1977.355,"endTime":1980.747,"body":"get the concept down and clear and"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1980.811,"endTime":1983.615,"body":"launched. And I will say the,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1984.035,"endTime":1987.843,"body":"the quick takeaway from that experience with a business coach. And"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1987.859,"endTime":1991.611,"body":"it doesn't matter who it is. Right. Who you're working with. It's about"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1991.723,"endTime":1995.331,"body":"right fit, right time and right fit for that"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1995.403,"endTime":1999.249,"body":"problem. Yep. And this was just a, you know, a perfect"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":1999.337,"endTime":2003.113,"body":"combination. And he was like, look, you don't, you don't need a website. You"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2003.129,"endTime":2006.897,"body":"don't need any of the stuff that people tell you that you need. You"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2006.921,"endTime":2010.241,"body":"just need a message and you need to know who you can serve."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2010.353,"endTime":2014.065,"body":"And I was enrolling literally"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2014.145,"endTime":2017.889,"body":"some of the top clients in my industry, even"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2017.937,"endTime":2021.625,"body":"without a new revised website that, that spoke clearly about"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2021.665,"endTime":2024.941,"body":"who I was serving and what I was doing. It was through emails. Love it."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2024.973,"endTime":2028.453,"body":"And here's the way that I think I can help you. The basics"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2028.509,"endTime":2032.125,"body":"again. Yes, it was back to basics. And so the irony"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2032.205,"endTime":2035.685,"body":"of starting the second business that was largely quote unquote,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2035.765,"endTime":2039.421,"body":"online. Yeah. Is it was built in the same way I'd built"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2039.453,"endTime":2042.581,"body":"my first business, which was just through"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2042.733,"endTime":2045.893,"body":"relationship building and preparation for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2045.949,"endTime":2049.797,"body":"preparation. Those people knowing who you were talking to. And"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2049.901,"endTime":2053.659,"body":"that's actually something I want to hit on because everybody needs to know about"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2053.707,"endTime":2057.411,"body":"you. So we're going to drop all the information you've provided in the notes"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2057.443,"endTime":2061.251,"body":"for the podcast, both on YouTube and in all of the various places people"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2061.283,"endTime":2064.331,"body":"are listening, but I know they're going to be interested. Can you just take. I"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2064.363,"endTime":2066.731,"body":"know I've kept you a long time here, but can you just give us a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2066.763,"endTime":2070.459,"body":"quick kind of summary of the, of how your"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2070.507,"endTime":2074.243,"body":"online business works? Because I just love it. Yeah, no, I. Thank you. And"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2074.259,"endTime":2077.935,"body":"I'll try to keep this short because I am a talker. I."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2078.675,"endTime":2081.855,"body":"We're on a podcast. You can talk. Perfect."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2082.815,"endTime":2086.527,"body":"The short of my online business is really,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2086.711,"endTime":2089.955,"body":"I wanted to bring automation"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2090.255,"endTime":2093.815,"body":"business systems. So you've probably heard of like,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2093.855,"endTime":2097.527,"body":"personalities like Jane Powers who does the speak"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2097.551,"endTime":2100.999,"body":"to sell system. She talks about like Catalyst, you know,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2101.047,"endTime":2104.847,"body":"relators who are real relationship people, optimizers and"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2104.871,"endTime":2108.207,"body":"then experts. I'm a combination of all of those. So in my"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2108.271,"endTime":2111.969,"body":"business, I, I not only. Yes."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2112.017,"endTime":2115.833,"body":"I'm all the archetypes And I'm also the optimizer and the"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2115.889,"endTime":2119.405,"body":"expert, which means I want to do things really efficiently."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2119.785,"endTime":2123.417,"body":"So you can imagine, as in your industry, there are probably things that are"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2123.481,"endTime":2127.041,"body":"really bothersome because they. Yes. They just make it take too long."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2127.193,"endTime":2131.041,"body":"The process is really cumbersome. Right. So I just kept thinking"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2131.073,"endTime":2134.377,"body":"I can create a model that speeds things up, gets people"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2134.441,"endTime":2138.273,"body":"resources quickly targeted to them. It's a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2138.289,"endTime":2142.121,"body":"little bit like crowdsourcing legal services for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2142.153,"endTime":2145.905,"body":"a very particular kind of business. Prices can come down,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2145.985,"endTime":2149.737,"body":"access can go up, and people can get what they need in a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2149.761,"endTime":2153.217,"body":"very different way. And you focus narrowly. Right, on"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2153.361,"endTime":2156.649,"body":"online business owners. Yes. Online information"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2156.817,"endTime":2160.337,"body":"entrepreneurs. They're usually largely experts, maybe"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2160.401,"endTime":2164.073,"body":"service providers, a lot of consultants, a lot of agencies, but they"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2164.129,"endTime":2167.761,"body":"all live in a very similar space. Yep, I love"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2167.793,"endTime":2171.377,"body":"it. And so how did. Well, to tell us quickly how people can best"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2171.441,"endTime":2174.185,"body":"find you because I know there could be a lot of people looking to find"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2174.225,"endTime":2177.665,"body":"out how to reach out. Yeah, absolutely. So legal website"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2177.745,"endTime":2181.113,"body":"warrior. Just how it sounds. Dot com. I'm on"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2181.169,"endTime":2184.953,"body":"LinkedIn. Right. I'm on all the places. I'm not great at social media, but you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2184.969,"endTime":2188.393,"body":"can come connect with me on LinkedIn. I do love my website"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2188.489,"endTime":2192.113,"body":"because I've poured so many resources, including free"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2192.169,"endTime":2195.777,"body":"resources into the website as a way to like really"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2195.841,"endTime":2199.593,"body":"serve and educate people first. I'm a big believer you can help create"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2199.649,"endTime":2203.377,"body":"the kind of client you want to do work with. That's brilliant. Do that through"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2203.441,"endTime":2207.137,"body":"educating. So I'm really a believer in educate first so that the"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2207.281,"endTime":2210.801,"body":"marketplace is better, everybody making better decisions. So,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2210.833,"endTime":2214.617,"body":"yeah, hop over to my website. You'll see Pam coming up on the guts,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2214.681,"endTime":2218.057,"body":"grit and great business. I know. I can't wait to talk to you tomorrow."},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2218.161,"endTime":2221.921,"body":"Totally. Which is also there. So once your episode comes out, we'll have to"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2221.953,"endTime":2225.423,"body":"cross link. But yeah, I love it. And we are going to feature"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2225.479,"endTime":2229.183,"body":"Heather in our weekly update soon, so we'll have the information there as"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2229.199,"endTime":2233.007,"body":"well to our email list. So I can't thank you enough for jumping on with"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2233.031,"endTime":2236.455,"body":"us. I am thrilled to have you on my mind map, even if you mess"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2236.495,"endTime":2239.847,"body":"up my OCD a little bit with your two lines. Sorry,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2239.991,"endTime":2243.727,"body":"sorry. So glad we met. I feel like we're kind of warriors on the same"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2243.791,"endTime":2247.551,"body":"battlefield carrying different weapons and I really, really"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2247.583,"endTime":2250.831,"body":"am glad to be connected to you and. And means the world to me. You"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2250.863,"endTime":2254.207,"body":"hopped on with us today to share a. A bunch of wisdom with people. I"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2254.231,"endTime":2257.743,"body":"can't wait to tear this apart. I always go back and listen and write down"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2257.759,"endTime":2261.511,"body":"the nuggets that I've pulled out of it. So thank you. Thank you, Pam. So"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2261.543,"endTime":2265.071,"body":"lovely to be here. I really appreciate you. All right. And everybody, you know, you"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2265.103,"endTime":2268.231,"body":"have questions for Heather. You now know how to reach her. You have questions for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2268.263,"endTime":2271.431,"body":"me, you know, to drop them here in the comments. Give us a Subscribe a"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2271.463,"endTime":2275.071,"body":"like a download and we'll be here for you with more Know youw"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2275.103,"endTime":2278.631,"body":"Map segments and back next week with our regular Cash Flow"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2278.703,"endTime":2282.361,"body":"podcast. Have a great week. Thanks so much for"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2282.393,"endTime":2285.897,"body":"watching the Cash Flow podcast with us. We want to bring more and more of"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2285.921,"endTime":2289.281,"body":"this to you. So please like share, subscribe,"},{"speaker":"5","startTime":2289.393,"endTime":2292.193,"body":"comment so that we can keep bringing more of this content to."}]}