Love & Your Truth

E3: Angela Graham with "The Siren Project": Connecting First Responders to Psychedelic Medicine for treating PTSD

• Dr. Sabrina Hadeed

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Episode 3! An Interview with Angela Graham, co-founder of "The Siren Project", a non-profit connecting first responders to safe psychedelic medicine experiences for the treatment of PTSD. Connect with the Siren Project here!

Join me as I sit down with Angela Graham from the Siren Project to discuss their mission of providing alternative mental health therapies, including psychedelic treatments, to first responders. Angela shares her personal journey, including her extensive background in the firefighting field alongside her husband, and the transformative experiences she has encountered through the use of psychedelic medicine. We delve into the unique challenges that first responders face dealing with PTSD, the importance of proper set and setting, and the interconnectedness of holistic healing. Additionally, Angela discusses the barriers within the first responder community regarding mental health and access to legal psychedelics, the impact of these therapies on personal and professional relationships, and the inspiring success stories from participants in the Siren Project.

00:00 Introduction to Angela Graham and The Siren Project
02:03 Angela's Background and Journey into Psychedelics
04:42 Challenges Faced by First Responders
06:21 Angela's Personal Experience with Psychedelic Medicine
13:09 The Birth of The Siren Project
18:27 The Importance of Holistic Healing
20:18 The Healing Journey: Diet, Therapy, and Integration
21:01 The Continuous Process of Healing
21:50 Nutrition and the Body's Healing Power
24:24 Barriers for First Responders in Psychedelic Therapy
30:57 The Impact of Psychedelics on Relationships
35:20 The Siren Project: Retreats and Fundraising

Stay connected with Dr. Sabrina Hadeed on Instagram @dr.sabrinhadeed

Learn more about Dr. Hadeed and the legal psilocybin program for individuals and couples operating in Bend, Oregon on her website:
www.loveandpsychedelics.co

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

so today I am really excited to be joined by Angela Graham with the Siren Project. And the reason I'm so excited about it is that I am a really big supporter of what she and her, husband are doing. Um, so a part of what they do, their mission is that they work with, uh, responders to access alternative mental health therapies, including psychedelic treatments. And they have both been working in the firefighting field, I believe for 35 years. And we're going to hear more from her in just a moment. So Angela, I'd love for you to chime us how you got started in this work with the siren project, and we'll go from there.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Sounds good. Thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to speak as often as I can, get the message out there about this. So a little about me, I worked for, Santa Clara County Fire Department for almost 20 years. He works for another department, which should be named later, because he's still active. So we kind of keep him more under wraps.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Thank you.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Um, he's worked for them for several years. In addition, he was, he does search and rescue with canines. That's actually how he met. On a FEMA team, he was searched with the canines. And that's sort of how we found psychedelic medicines. the veteran community is probably 5 to 10 years ahead of the first responder community when it comes to helping our people cope with post traumatic stress in other ways than what is offered through workman's cop. So they've sort of paved the way and fortunately through the canine world, my husband is, um, some operators, some sealed team operators that handle dogs and they'd come to trainings because they all know each other. And they, it's a small world, and that's how we found out about using psychedelics, first of all, as therapeutic medicine. And another term you're going to hear me use throughout this conversation is entheogenics. Feel like plant medicine has a bad connotation to the drugs. We talk about psychedelics, that's the 60s, and people are automatically like, oh, you're just doing drugs. So. Totally. Yeah, when you say plant medicine, you're leaving out other medicines, such as the 5 MeO DMT, which is the toad, or ketamine, which I don't personally have experience with but entheogenics, it's all encompassing. So back to the dog world, uh, one of his veteran friends told us about psychedelic medicines and how great it worked for him. He wrote a book, Touching the Dragon. A lot about his trauma, unfortunately in his book, he didn't get into how he got better. He talked about how bad he got, and he talked about his horrible childhood and things that happened. But he didn't mention the entheogenics and psychedelic medicines. And he was able to give me the names of several providers, and that's how I found my first journey. So, why did I come to this point where I needed a journey, right? Um, don't think it's just, I was a first responder and I saw, Scary things. And now I needed help. I think that many people we none of us. How many of us have parents that were child?

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Perfect.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Well, Perfect. parents. Yes. Perfect parents. Parents that had a grasp on like psychology or child psychology and how your brain is forming and how to help you develop healthy coping mechanisms. Not many of us had that. So, I, I really think a lot of people who are dealing with trauma or maybe even get into the first responder community probably had a little trauma to begin with and, we start off a little broken and then maybe it just gets worse along the way. So, you know, I had some rough moments as a kid, but I definitely did not develop healthy coping mechanisms. And when it came into the first responder community and, or the world of what we do, you just find, I think it's not just the calls, it's the lack of sleep, it's the social pressure. As a female, I did feel maybe more pressure than the men to perform and that I have to keep up and like, I think if you're a guy and you're crying cause you just had a pediatric code, people were like, yeah, that really sucks. But if you're a woman and you break down and cry, it's almost like a, well, she's just soft or she had a kid or she's a mom or she's on the, it's her time of the month. So, and while that may or may not be true, that's how I felt. I felt like I would be perceived differently as a female if I showed weakness.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

And that takes its toll with the constant stress of that. And,, I found myself in a really dark place about as dark as you. I definitely had the suicide ideation. No, there's a big difference between suicide ideation and the act.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

glad you're saying that because we know suicidal ideation is actually a lot more common than most people think.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Oh yeah.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

It's actually quite human to wish you were no longer alive at any given, you know, moment in your life. If you go through life struggles, which everyone does.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. So you got to a really dark place found an experience, found a journey with a psychedelic medicine. What was the medicine?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

So I did a psilocybin and five MEO DMT. So mushrooms, magic mushrooms. And, uh, the toad, but I didn't just go, oh, I'm sad. Let's go try this. I tried absolutely everything else EMDR is the Go-to, for trauma. It's Super helpful for a lot of people. The problem is, is. As first responders, when you learn how to, um, dissociate, it doesn't you, as soon as you go into that, find the moment, feel the feeling you'd start associate and that makes EMDR really not too effective. I know that there's people out there who like, I have the tools. I can help you get through the dissociation. And I just never found that

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I would just turn off and go numb.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Well, I'm glad you're bringing that up and I do want to get back to your, to your journey, your story, but it's a, it's a good, segue into another question I have. So we might as well ask it now, which is, you know, given your experience, your husband's experience, I mean, we're talking the span of like 35 years worth of wisdom, you know, what's so unique about the population? Uh, first responders when it comes to complex or, or just, you know, straight up PTSD. What's so unique about it?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Well, I think the difference between first responders and veterans, just to put it in a light comparison, is veterans tends to be acute, where you go, you know, you deploy for six to eight months, and maybe you're in the military for four years, or you're an operator for whatever, you have these acute events. I feel like as firefighters, you're usually in for 30 years. So it's the chronic. You don't get to come home for two months or whatever the time is and kind of come back to normal. So I think, I think that we have a profound lack of sleep. I think that we have an extreme exposure to chemicals and smoke and all of the other stuff that the job brings. And all of that takes a toll on you physically, which makes it difficult to cope mentally on top of the chronic stress of over 30 years of drowning kids and battered spouses and car accidents, you know, kids not in seatbelts and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

All the things, the worst case scenario that, that folks like yourself are on the, are the frontline of those and, you can't unsee it. And although I know from working with first responders that there, there is this like buffer you, it's almost like frog in boiling water, but it's still not tough. at times not tolerable. And the, not which trauma it's, know, all of them, it's sort of collective. And they have to be well defended internally. You, you learn to, like you were saying earlier, this dissociation that's unhealthy. Cause we talk a lot about in psychedelic medicine, right? healthy dissociation versus unhealthy. And there is an unhealthy dissociation. That's almost, um, a part of the job. Like you have to, in order to function in order to show up, scan the scene, take the call, you know, all of those things. And so I imagine that goes into it as well.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Oh, to function in the job, you absolutely have to dissociate. You can't do CPR on another human being and be completely aware and emotionally engaged with what you're doing. Some people think they are, but I'm sorry, you're, you're not.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

And it makes me think, I don't know if you've ever heard the story The knight in rusty armor, that's all about, you know, a knight that, uh, has to wear armor to protect himself, but essentially he wears it so often. And as you know, it's such a part of his way of life that. It starts to rust to his body and he can't take it off. And I love that when I think of, you first responders or anyone working in front lines of, significant human trauma is that you have to be armored. And after a while it becomes hard to peel that armor off.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes, and it makes it difficult to be a good parent when you have your child that is hurting and you need to be more empathetic and you can to a degree, but there are times you feel Yourself, like, come on, suck it up, get going. And there are four because that's just your, your default and that's not great.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You think you have problems, kid?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. You know what? I just ran

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You know what I just did? Yeah. Well, and it's a good, it's a good way to, and thank you for answering that question because when we say first responder or anyone in the front lines of what I'm calling sort of human traumas, it is a unique population I think it is connected to why and how psychedelic medicine has such potential to take folks that normally are traditional methods of, um, therapy aren't effective enough or aren't working to the degree that they, need them to work. so I'm curious to come back to your story, like, What did you see change?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Um, so I was a single mom for the first five years of my son's life while I was also dealing with the post traumatic stress and just everything that comes with it. My trigger, my hair triggers for sound or just agitation was off the charts and it There's a lot of guilt as far as trying to be a good mom, and I just pull it together. So, um, like I said, I flew to San Diego and smuggled myself across the border with people I'd never met to do drugs I was just desperate and it was amazing. I didn't notice much initially. Um, right after the medicine, I had a pretty tough journey. I have some control issues. I had trouble letting go. So anyone who's doing

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I don't know anything about that, Angela.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

anyone who wants to try this, you gotta learn to let go. The only way out is through and

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

only way out is through and let go.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

let go. It's really hard. Um, so I had a very rough journey and I wasn't super thrilled right after my experience. And then when I went home, I realized, All of the things that my son would do that would set me off, nothing set me off. Sounds, not the, him losing his temper and getting like, nothing set me off. And that's when it hit me that. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Cause it was, you know, a week or two after and I was still pretty mellow and I realized, wow, I wish I could feel like this all the time. And you can, if you stick with the tools, you can feel like that all the time. I didn't know it was possible to feel that way in those situations. And then I was angry. I was angry that after everything I'd been through and everything I tried, why did I have to know the right person and spend thousands of dollars To access this level of happiness. I

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I'm glad you said it. I'm so glad to hear that you were angry. Yeah. Like, why was it so hard and, and now this makes sense.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes. Oh my gosh. That really just hit me in the heart. Really, really did. Like, because I know part of the question is what brought, you know, how did the siren project emerge? And I'm guessing it started there.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yep. My husband who had started several non profits before, so he was more adventurous on the business end of that. And, uh, we just, we did it. We got it started and we've, we were fortunate to have a benefactor for the first few years to get us going. Um, kind of on our own now, but we, we did it. We started it because honestly, we don't want to have to exist. We shouldn't have to exist. This should be covered by Workman's Comp. Period. So, but for now, it's not. And we are here doing the best we can to make it because it should, everyone should have a right to have access to any health care that they need to be a better parent, a better partner. I mean, for the sake of the next generation for generational trauma to

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Intergenerational healing. That's right. Not many people are talking about intergenerational healing and there's a reason for that. It's because it's just not the norm, right? I mean, we, we think we just are struggling despite what's available and that doesn't mean that, that the treatments available aren't helpful. What it means is that if we know that something exists that is. Um, wildly more helpful, potentially more beneficial. It would be unethical, I think, to ignore that.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

That's exactly what I feel. I think that's why I'm so angry is clearly after my experience, nobody's doing this shit for fun. Sorry. Like you're not going down to do this to have to get high. That was not fun. I can tell you, I know what it feels like to suffocate and die. Sorry. So. That's not something I'm going to voluntarily do every single weekend.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

illegal. It's not addictive. And as long as you don't jump off of a bridge, no one's overdosed on it.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Or get in a hot tub. Right. I know that's been in the news a lot. Right. Don't, Don't do it. Don't work with a trusted guide, work with someone that is trusted and is familiar with the medicines. Yeah. So that's a really great, you know, one of the questions I know we were going to go over were what are some of the benefits? And I think you touched on, you know, you did touch on some of those, some of those I think incredible ones that I resonate with as well as a mom, you know, is that it, it's helpful. It's not just helpful in like your immediate relationship. It's a ripple effect. It's helpful for every relationship, you know, whether it's like the, the person you don't know that well that you get your coffee from, or it's just, it's all about any one that you connect with. You're softer, You can feel oftentimes more like yourself,

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

take that moment to connect with people and that makes a difference. Maybe you think about someone held the door open for you versus they let it slam in your face. Those little things throughout the day accumulate and You really do have a profound impact on everyone you come in contact with every single day. And it helps you become aware of the fact that fact, but that we're all connected in some way, you feel very connected. And if you think about the opposite of that, well, no wonder people are anxious or depressed because they feel isolated and alone. And it's, and our doctor that we use at our facility is just an amazing human being. We'll get into her in a little bit, but she talks about. Statistically, do you know how many thoughts, it might be off on a tangent, I have ADHD I'll lose my train of thought, mid thought, so I apologize in advance.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

okay. You know, Angela, I love, one of my favorite expressions is tell me the long version, right? Tell me the long version. We spend too much time trying to like, we got to be succinct and we got to go, go, go. It's like we go on a tangent.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You have 70, 000 thoughts a day randomly. You have about 70, 000 thoughts that come into your head a day. Statistically, 80 percent are negative. Do you think that might have an effect on your emotions, your state of mind, depression, anxiety? And I think the key, you have the spiritual side of this, and we're all connected. My husband is a psychologist. He's a therapist. He's a psychologist. He's a therapist. He's a therapist. Very big on that. So as Andrea, I'm personally very literal. I need the science side and the science side to me talks about these medicines and how they create neuroplasticity or they actually help your brain generate more neuro connections. Because if you've known nothing about this, I would highly recommend reading how to change your mind by Michael Pollan. Cause they talk about the default mode network. When you walk from A to B, you don't think about it. It's automatic. Every day, as you encounter information, Your prefrontal cortex and your lizard brain are talking to it together through a very highly efficient pathway in your brain, like a muscle memory, all the neural pathways that you use to walk you have in your brain. And when you have a messed up default mode network, your lizard brain is always telling you to freak out, to be stressed, to be depressed. And this medicine helps you rewire that highway in a healthier and healthier way, which is why Set and setting is so important. You don't just take these medicines and you get better people. I don't want anyone under the impression that I'm going to go do these psychedelics and it's going to heal me. That is opening the door. You have to be able to walk through. And I've said that a million times before, if you're not prepared to walk through the door, you're not going to get what you need out of the medicine. It's you. It's a, it's basically 30 years of meditation, all condensed into like. Five hours. That's a lot of work on your part.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. Yeah. That's not a small journey. Yeah. Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

So, um, the set and setting is super important. I think it's very important to make sure that you're in a safe place, which is what we provide the facility, the people to make sure that you are safe, but the mindset going into it is a hundred percent you, and it takes a lot of meditation and breath work and journaling and introspective. That's why we don't send people if you've never been to therapy, you had to have had some practice at kind of. Taking a look at yourself and your habits and what you're doing, um, your diet.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

often highlight that is it's, it, it amplifies the work you're already doing and you have to be already doing work, work alongside. Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Setting and then diet, believe it or not. So when we go to the retreat, there's a diet where you cut out nicotine. I'm currently getting a certification from UCSD for integrative nutrition because what I found when I came back, this is a little off topic, but it kind of comes like holistic healing the whole body. Cause if you fix and rewire the mind, but your testosterone is low and your cortisol is jacked up and you have all these other physical issues with your body, it's still really hard to maintain the mental part when you just feel exhausted or you feel jittery.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You are speaking words of such wisdom here. Honestly, like I, I could not be more aligned with this idea that we have to start treating ourselves as the whole. So the spirit, the mind, the body, the system we're in, the environment, all of it, we have to move away from this rigid way of compartmentalizing our beautiful complex humanness. It's so much more than just your gut or just your mind. It's all of it. So I don't think this is a tangent at all. I think this is like the good. medicine, right? Like we're that psychedelic work isn't just taking a magic pill. Substance. And then you're transformed. It's taking something that is assisting in the other things you're doing and the more you're doing that. So you're priming yourself with a dieta, you know, a special diet where you're cutting out the, I call it the sort of noise, the other noise. You're also doing therapeutic work, whether it's with a coach or a guide or a therapist, um, to help set intentions, to help connect with, what do you want to come out of this? What do you want to surrender? Let go of, what do you want to see change? And then continuing that work long after with, with what of course we know is called integration, you make meaning of it and then you weave it into your life and you continue to revisit it

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Right. It's a process. Healing is a process. It's like when you're an addict, you're always an addict. You're continually in recovery. You're

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

in order to be healed. You have to continually do the healing work. Yes.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You bet. Well, and like I tell some of our participants, you don't exercise and eat right. And once you achieve health, do you stop, do you stop exercising and you stop eating? Right? No. So once you're, your mind is healed or at least rewired, are you going to stop the meditation and the journaling? Are you going to go back to the nicotine and the caffeine and the drinking, you know, five beers every single night.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Totally. And some people do, right? Like some people are like, I don't need to go to the gym anymore. I look great. And then they're like, Oh shit. Two months later I stopped going. Or I think I could handle, you know, drinking in moderation. Or I think if I just have one cigarette, I'll be okay. And we know that that just isn't the case for 99 percent of people.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

You're going to go back. You're going to go back. But again, to the, to the new, to speak to the nutrition part of it, it kind of goes into my thoughts and feelings on the medicine itself. You have, you have this wonderful body that's capable of healing itself. And if you think about how maybe you're in deficit of certain micronutrients, For years at a time, your body compensates and compensates and compensates, and then all of a sudden it can't compensate. So you start to have all the other issues. If you ever read, the body keeps the score. It talks about the, the trauma your body holds onto and how it affects your all of your systems. The root of every illness is inflammation. Inflammation comes from stress. It comes from environmental triggers. It comes from what you might genetically be predisposed. Like Michael J. Fox said, genetics might have load the gun, but the environment pulls the trigger on numerous diseases. So you need to make sure that you're, you're not deficient in something. We haven't learned everything yet, y'all. Science is still trying to figure shit out.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. Well, and that nature is, is, is just infinitely wise. We, even if we try and replicate it, it's still not.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

well, there's just so much going on in the, the carrot or the mushroom where you can isolate the psilocybin. But what about the synergistic effect of all the other phytochemicals that are in the mushroom or the broccoli or the carrot? We don't have all that isolated. We don't, can't explain exactly how it works. Almost all the studies I've read on this in my. School, it talks about, well, more research is needed. Well, yeah, because we're still figuring it out and we may never figure out all the components of the mushroom, of the tote of all of this stuff. So what I'm point, I'm trying to

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

And let's not wait until we have it all figured out. Let's, let's, let's make the access available. you know, safely.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Make it safe. But my point I'm trying to make is, yes, you need to. Be concerned of what you're putting into your body, your diet and everything that will affect if you're struggling with depression and anxiety, pay attention to what you're putting into your body, both the food and the thoughts and the environment of the people you're around, that's all consuming. You're consuming the sounds and the energy and the negativity of other people.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think if we're studying that, you know, we've done something right.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Right. If we're that far

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

it. Yes.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

the two.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

It was really disappointing to see that MDMA didn't make it through. We were kind of counting on them to break down the wall. But first one through the wall is always the bloodiest. Yeah

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I Know when you and I connected the first time separate from this podcast, you know, I reached out to you, to hear any insights that you had about working with first responders in a group setting, because I was, um, about to, uh, put out there a retreat for first responders that was, uh, using ketamine. And, um, and you and I got to talk about what I wanted to hear from you on today was, What are some of the, um, barriers that first responders are facing when it comes to even legal above ground psychedelic work, not to mention, you know, psychedelics, where you have to go outside the country to access them. What are the, some of the barriers that you're seeing the reluctance or the resistance within that population?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

So, well, I think, first of all, we're better than we were 20 years ago at asking for help when we need help. Um, so there's the, the, connotation of I'm weak. I shouldn't be here. I can't hang if I need to go get help. But then there's the legal aspect of, am I going to get in trouble? Because even in Oregon, if it's legal, many departments may have their own policy saying that you still can't go do it. So what's the policy? What's the culture in your department? As far as accepting that, um, I need help. I'm not going to be judged. And can I go get any of the help that I need, which may be not legal in California? Can I go to Oregon where it is legal and do these medicines? And am I going to get in trouble? So those are, those are some of the barriers.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. I ketamine is legal and you get a legal prescription for it. You know, you can have an experience here, psilocybin, you can work with a facilitator and it's legal in the state. And I still find that, that, particularly in law enforcement firefighting are really reluctant to participate even though, and I'm curious why.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

They're afraid of getting in trouble or they're afraid of looking weak, which is interesting because I'm sure a little statistic out there, even though Today, socially, it's more acceptable to say I need help in the fire service than it was 20 years ago. However, if you go to the behavioral, the Firefighter Behavioral Health Alliance, I have a graph that I made, and it shows suicides at 2000, around 2000 to now, steadily climbing. Today the suicide rate for firefighters is four times what it was 20 years ago, and yet we are more accepting and have access to more modules than we've ever had. And, and our careers, and yet the suicide rate is four times it used to be worth three times as likely to die by suicide than on duty activities. And yet, this medicine still isn't accepted

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

So the people that reach out to you all, you the siren project, how are they finding you?

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Various ways through lovely people like yourself that get us out there publicly. we have a website, word of mouth, I think is probably the biggest one. We have a few random people. We have, uh,

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Your website? Just, just so we're clear, we're going to say it a few times, the siren project. org, the siren project. org.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

once you go to the website, you can see our little icon for Instagram and Facebook. And, we actually had one doctor who works through the IFF center of excellence for people. So the International Association of Firefighters, it's the, the big union for firefighters, and they actually have centers for people to go that are dealing with post traumatic stress, depression, and anxiety. And they do not use psilocybin there, they use the traditional EMTR. Not yet. not yet, but one of the doctors that treats at one of the facilities, heard about us, and she's actually referred a few people to us. That's a huge win, that was a huge win.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

huge win. I'm so delighted to hear that.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes. Well, I'd love for that. I mean, the centers do wonders for some people. There's just always going to be a few because SSRIs are only 20 percent effective. But psychedelics you use once, maybe twice. And you don't they on them like SSRIs and they're proving six months after treatment to still have a 68 percent efficacy. So 68 percent versus 20 percent

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

percent efficacy for those that don't know means that 68 percent of the people that participate in the psychedelic intervention no longer struggle with the symptoms that they came in with. So a lot of times that's PTSD symptoms or

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

They're no longer considered clinically depressed is what

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Psychedelic medicine, it seems to have a bigger impact on healing that core self. On helping you come home to yourself. I often use that kind of language, like remembering yourself. I loved what you said when we first started talking where you said, I didn't even know I could. I didn't even know I could not have a reaction with my kids as if you had forgotten, but it's always in there. You know, people always ask me like, am I going to change forever? Will I be not the same person? Like, I don't want that. No. In fact, I know, right? I'm like, well, wouldn't that be great? But really it is a way to say like, you will be more yourself. You will come home to yourself, you know, peel back the layers of what life does to us, what trauma does to us, what that default kind of habitual way of being, the numbing out does. And Um, you know, what shakes out is typically pretty, pretty magnificent. Um, and of course I always say not for everyone. There are some counter indications of course, of course, of course. And for those that it's beneficial for, it's wildly beneficial.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes, it's it's an interesting concept that you're talking about the nature versus nurture. Who are you born to be versus who have you become because of experiences that you've had? I grew up in a in a world where you needed to suck it up and get tough. You're six foot tall, you're strong, you're athletic, you got to get tough, you got to play sports. That's, that is where your worth lies in your physical body. When I was a little girl, I liked unicorns and pink and purple. And then all of a sudden it just went away. Like, where did the girly girl go? And so it's an interesting concept of trying to find who you were born to be versus trying to find who you're supposed to become.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. What, what the world has told you, you should be. Yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

exactly. We have, we have one participant who was a lot like me. I mean, I don't think she grew up the same, but softball player, pretty tough, worked out a lot. And now she's starting a business baking. She just loves baking.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I love it. The tough woman Baker. Yes, you can be the both, right? We don't have to, it's not, we we've been conditioned to believe that it's as simple as pink or blue, tough or not total bullshit. And for the time we have left, I would love to hear, How psychedelics have changed your relationships because, you know, this podcast microdose your marriage. It's about microdosing and psychedelics, but it's also about relationship wellness. And of course I like to amplify how psychedelics, whether it's, you know, bigger doses, which are macro versus smaller doses, which is micro that. Using psychedelics has that ripple effect where it, it, it can really strengthen your relationships. And so I'd love to hear how it has helped yours, whether it's with your sweetie or with others in your life.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Uh, I think it's helped across the board with all of my relationships. It's helped me be more patient with my son. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's helped my communication with my husband because I instead of. just snapping and getting mad. I can stop. I can think how I'm feeling. I can try to put it into words better. So it's helping with my communication. It's helping me to stop and try to hear his side and be more empathetic versus just assuming what I think he's thinking and feeling. It's helped me forgive. I still have anger. I still have resentment. But I, I'm learning still how to accept that that person has their own trauma and it's for them to deal with. And it's not for me to take on. And if they're coming at me negatively to not take it personally, that's their battle that they have to deal with. It's nothing I've done. And that's, that's the biggest thing for me is to understand that someone being negative and coming at me and taking it out on me to not take it personally. Cause normally you, you, you fight at me. Like you go to, I'm going to go 10, I'm going to come back at you. And that's just not healthy for either one of us. So just trying to stay. My own little Island of emotion and not allow that negativity to affect me. And also allowing myself to set boundaries. And know that it's okay. It's okay to say you are unhealthy. And so I'm not going to have you in my life anymore. And for a lot of people that looks like, um, people are disposable and you're just getting rid of them. I have a right to cut people out of my life to keep myself the way that I am to protect myself and that's okay. If you're going to be negative, I will help you if you want help, but I'm not going to allow you into my world and affect my bubble

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes,

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

mouthful, but that's kind of where I've come to.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

I appreciate all of those words so, so much. I mean, what you're touching on with boundaries is so important. It's so important. I think we live in a culture mostly that says that we're supposed to say yes to everybody and guess what? I can still be a loving, caring person and say, no, thank you. So as we wrap up any favorite story you have about. You know, any participant that has been through the program that just, yeah.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

makes, he's one of my best friends now, and, um, she just makes amazing cookies. Um, and I'll get the information out if anybody wants her to send them cookies, but they're, they're phenomenal and full of love. Uh, we have one firefighter who's actually getting back with his ex wife. They're divorced and they're getting back together. And we have another participant. We've actually had several who come to the retreats and they're completely atheists and they leave and they're like, nope, there's a God, there's a higher power. And it doesn't matter what God you believe in, if you're Christian or Catholic or Muslim or Buddhist, there's a higher power. I don't know how you could go through this. I don't know how you could have a child and, and not, you know, Really see that there's a higher power, but that's just so awesome. When you get people coming through this and they, that changes your whole life. Yes. Like you don't just disappear, you're connected to everybody. That's gotta, that's gotta improve your state of mind.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Amplifying the interconnection with, with all things. And then also the connection to higher power. I hear that a lot. You know, people come in atheist and, and come out, not, you know, come out and believing in something, whatever it is that's bigger than themselves. And that can really be an anchor in their lives. Well, this has been a delight, and I'm so glad to have, to have found you, you know, and I do hope that, Coming on the podcast that it does help direct people to the siren project and, then connect, you know, potential participants to be able to find safe, trusted access to psychedelic medicine.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Yes, we do have 2 retreats in 2025. That will be for non first responders. It's a fundraiser. So if someone's just looking for 1, and they'd like to go would have to pay your own way, but it's a fundraiser for the rest of the retreats.

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

Okay. That's a beautiful offering. So you're, so you're running two retreats in 2025 is you through the website via email and you'll connect them to participating in one of those retreats and they pay their way, but then the funds go towards, able to then pay for other participants.

angela-graham-houweling_1_09-19-2024_130856:

We have been very, very fortunate to have, great fundraising the first few years, but we're always in need of funding. Our biggest expense is renting the house that we rent in Puerto Vallarta, so we could really use the funding every year. We're trying to get more funding, but we pay for everything. All we ask participants to pay for is their flight and the first night's hotel, and then we pay for everything else, the food, the accommodations, the medicine, the pre work. To help you set up group, we have group setting pre work, we have one on one pre work, and then we have group integration and one on one integration. We cover all of that. We need people to have skin in the game. We found if we cover everything that people bail last minute and then we're left paying for a person who doesn't participate. And we also have a medical screening and a doctor on site during the medicine to make sure that you're safe medically going into it. and safe medically going through it. So we pay for all of that. And it can get pretty costly. If you go to any, there's several facilities in America that will cost five to 7, 000 per person. We're able to keep the costs down because we do it in Puerto Vallarta and we have an amazing facilitator, Andrea Lucy, Dr. Andrea Lucy. Um, so we keep it down significantly less expensive than here in the States. And then we keep it indigenously respectful, doing it in a place where the medicine comes from, with culturally respective. It's a very traditionally steeped ceremony that we do down there, um, and much more cost effective, but we're, we are always looking for funding

dr--sabrina-hadeed--she-her--hers-_1_09-19-2024_130856:

yeah, that makes sense. I'm sure the wait list is, yeah, is long. Well, I hope those two retreats get, filled. I will list your information at the summary of the podcast and a link to the website. And I wish you all the success and we'll keep in touch and, and see how it all unfolds. It was so good to talk with you. Give your husband my best