Love & Your Truth

E7: Special Guest Andrea Shuman on The Art of Microdosing: Insights, Safety, and Holistic Practices

• Dr. Sabrina Hadeed

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In this episode of The MicroDose Marriage podcast, host Dr. Sabrina Hadeed interviews Andrea Shuman, a clinical Ayervedic Specialist, Master Herbalist, product creator, and  founder of Mycrodrops. 

Shuman shares her journey into microdosing, particularly her experience overcoming weaning depression through the use of psychedelic mushrooms. They discuss the concept of pattern seering, which involves understanding and addressing the underlying patterns behind health issues rather than just treating symptoms. The conversation delves into the safety aspects of sourcing microdosing products, the variability in mushroom potency, and the risks of unregulated products. Shuman emphasizes the importance of using vetted sources and integrating microdosing into a broader health and wellness routine. The episode closes with Shuman encouraging listeners to join the microdosing community through her platform, Microverse.

 

You can find Andrea and her products at https://www.mycrodrops.com/

Stay connected with Dr. Sabrina Hadeed on Instagram @dr.sabrinhadeed

Learn more about Dr. Hadeed and the legal psilocybin program for individuals and couples operating in Bend, Oregon on her website:
www.loveandpsychedelics.co

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Welcome to another episode of the micro dose, your marriage podcast. I am your host, Dr. Sabrina Hadid, and I'm so excited to have Andrea Schuman here from micro drops. Andrea has been in the field of holistic health since 1997 as a body worker, a clinical ayurvedic specialist, master herbalist and product creator and formulator. She's also has a, is a pattern seer, which I'm going to have to ask her what that means an activist, a mother and a cycle breaker. Very excited to have you on our show today. And we'll be talking about micro drops about you and how you found this work. And, we'll. We'll be talking a little bit about safe sourcing and what people need to look out for and how they can make sure that if they do choose to engage in microdosing that they're doing so, uh, safely and with caution. And we've tried this many times and this is our third, the third attempt, third time's the charm. Yes. So what is pattern searing?

Andrea Shuman:

When I say pattern seer, what I mean is that I have a tendency to look at the overall patterns that create a particular issue. So, you know, for instance, when we look at something like antidepressant use. I like to zoom out from what we're seeing and see what kind of patterns are driving the statistics behind it. Um, you know, for instance, when you see that, you know, women are on antidepressants at twice the rate of men, I like to go ahead and walk that back and see all of the places that that leads them there and how they get to this place. So in general, One of the things I've noticed is in traditional Western health care, um, a lot of times the larger patterns are not looked at. We look at symptoms, we look at like syndromes, we look at things that are easy to look at in the DSM and very easy to check off, but we're not always taking into account the global, um, The collective and all of those other pieces that actually inform an issue that we're seeing in real time. So, um, pattern seeing is something that is just sort of innate in me. I like to, to use to inform my practice because we want to be talking about what we're talking about and not, uh, talking about a distraction.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

It reminds me of like symptoms versus root. And, you know, like just almost kind of fundamentally embodying holistic lens at any given moment, which I love. And of course, I'm a big fan of, I think that we often don't consider the bigger picture in this, Western lens of medicine, whether it's mental health medicine or physical medicine. So. That's that's great. I've not heard that term and I just like now I love it. So tell us about micro drops.

Andrea Shuman:

Micro drops was started. Um, well, I will say conceived of, in 2018. When I had my own kind of dance with the darkness between 2016 and 2018, I had never been somebody who I felt like was particularly susceptible to anxiety and depression. I had a lot of tools in my belt to handle things as they came up, but I found myself in that time that 2016 and 2018 time, just having had a, second baby. I was hit with weaning depression, which was something that, uh, you know, a lot of people talk about postpartum depression, but, that's never been my issue when having kids. I have experienced weaning depression. So when I stopped nursing, um, the kind of drop in hormones that is associated with that. Now, when I say pattern seer, again, that was my drop in hormones, but collectively there was a lot going on in that time in that 2018, that 2016 to 2018 time was actually a time when a lot of people started microdosing because they needed to kind of reorient themselves to reality. And my husband at the time was, working about a hundred hours a week, trying to get his career settled for our family. I was working, owning a business. And doing so with my both kids at home and I'm a pretty ADHD person. If you're going to give it a name, you know, I, I fit a lot of the symptoms. I am well scaffolded because of the way I live my life. But, I'm definitely one of those people that if you were to kind of. Put the group of symptoms together. Uh, you might diagnose me as that. Being the, a mom with two kids at home, very young, while trying to run a business, a state away from where the business was located and being pretty ADHD, it put me into a level of overwhelm when I mixed it with the hormonal drop. That I just wasn't really able to see what I needed to do to get better. And, um, you know, you can have all the tools in the world, but if your brain is foggy and your brain is not working for you, it doesn't really matter. And then one of my friends, who's a naturopath, was kind enough to remind me. You do know everything that you need to do. In fact, you can formulate your way out of this. And she was kind enough to give me a little bit of a mushroom tincture. uh, psychedelic mushroom tincture, which I took a little bit of, and I'd been very familiar with psychedelics. I started. Using mushrooms at 14 years old. It was just wasn't in a micro dose and it wasn't for this specific type of reason, but it had been a really long time since I had interacted with mushrooms at all because I didn't party with them anymore. Anything like that. When I, I was really surprised what happened. So I took just a little bit of this mushroom texture, found myself like. Oh, it was like just enough to give me clarity. And then I was like, Oh, wait a minute. I do know what I'm doing. Hold on a second. I started writing formulas for myself, getting my hormones back in line, started getting myself back to where I needed to be. And then I quickly started looking at microdosing and why are people microdosing? What, what for, you know, they're microdosing. Depression, anxiety, creativity, all of these things are fundamentally different. Um, and from an energetic medicine or Eastern medicine perspective, they're directionally different. So depression needs. to be lifted up. Anxiety needs to come down. Hyper focus and intensity needs to be let out. Scatteredness needs to be brought in. All of these are directionally different. And one mushroom alone isn't always enough to complete the cycle. So, I started realizing People are getting their head above water, but they're not necessarily rowing their way to shore. You know, so, um, I started looking at different herbs, different, uh, mushrooms. What can I do that keeps this synergistic with, with this product? It's going to work well with the mushrooms, with the serotonergic aspect of the mushrooms. What foods, what herbs, what can I do to enhance this in a way that can bring you towards the direction you're hoping to go? So I started working on a formula that would lift you up and one that would bring you down and one that would kind of let things out and one that would bring them in. And that's when Microdrops was created. Our first several formulas were kind of gross tasting. And then I was like, you know what? I really want these to be good because I struggle taking medicine as much as I'm an herbalist and I could tell you a million times to take your herbs three times a day and they work better that way. I honestly need someone behind me telling me what to do myself. And so I was like, well, if I make them taste good, And I make them have a thing that I can put in my things that I like, then I'll probably take them as a default. And so I made a couple of formulas that are real good in my coffee. It's mostly decaf. Um, and, a formula is really good in tea. that has to be taken without any caffeine. And I started realizing that's the way if I can crave my formula, like, Oh, I'm going to have my coffee. Oh, my coffee no longer tastes good without my formula in it. Well, that would just take another thing that I have to do off my list and make it a thing I get to do.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

It reminds me of the atomic habits guy. You know, he says like to stack the thing, you know, like to stack the behavior with something else you're already doing to increase success. Um, and it sounds like that it's like one, and especially as a mom, I really resonate with that. Like one less thing you have to remember to do.

Andrea Shuman:

And so if you're, if it's like the thing you add to your coffee every day, well, Then it's a no brainer. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to, um, yeah, James clear from atomic habits. He says, you don't rise to the level of your habits. You fall to the level of your systems. So what I wanted to do is create something that felt like a system. So we we're able to like, this can be something that's kind of working with you every day. So I created formulas were actually meant to be taken alongside of the microdose initially. Um, so that you could take them every day and not break them.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Yeah. Yeah. And your story of how you came to find microdosing is very similar to mine. I of course knew about magic mushrooms and, had in the early days had, had a few experiences, but it, you know, I hadn't really heard of microdosing even here in Oregon. I was following measure one Oh nine. I was following the, decrim movements and I'm really curious and excited about those things, but it was more in, I was understanding it more in the context of the bigger doses macro. Or psychedelic doses as they're often called and really hadn't heard of or considered micro until a fellow mama friend of mine, basically came to me with some micro doses and was like, have you, do you know about, this is just a little bit, this is what it does. And I was like, no way. What? And from there, everything changed. I mean, even my research interests and, and my enthusiasm and excitement that was already brewing for the psychedelic. for using psychedelics for, you know, spiritual, mental, physical health benefits. Microdosing took it to this other level where it's like, okay, wait a second. There's actually potential benefit to using sub perceptual. I know some people argue with that term nowadays, but you know, for the sake of a conversation, sub perceptual, very, very small doses and experiencing pretty significant changes. I myself experience really significant changes, similar to what you're talking about, where I was doing all the things already. You know, to try and, also resonate with the weaning, hormone fluctuation and even just psychologically, no longer nursing what that meant for me, no longer having that co sleeping relationship with that meant for me, sadness around that, grieving around that, but different changes I was trying to make in my life that I was doing all the things, checking off the boxes, seeing my own therapist, self care. Like I was like, check, check, check, check, check. Still not quite feeling like I was. getting to the place I wanted to be and knew that I could be and then microdosing basically got me there and I was like, Oh my goodness. This is amazing. Other people need to know about this. Other mamas in particular. That's why you and I, I know we talked earlier about moms on mushrooms and resonating with, with Tracy T and all that she's doing. But, yeah, but you as well, when I met you at psychedelic science, I think it was what, two years ago. Your enthusiasm, your knowledge. I mean, you were, you were swarmed. Like it was super busy and it was chaotic. And yet you like dropped in with me and made eye contact. And like, it was, I could like feel that kindred mama, you know, connection.

Andrea Shuman:

I'm so glad I remembered that too. It was beautiful. You know, I laughed and I was like, that was an amazing, that was an amazing time to meet all of you incredibly open minded practitioners. I was like, this is Disneyland for psychiatrists.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Totally. Yeah. We were, we were so excited and are, are excited. Yeah. to now know you a little bit more and to be, in similar community here in Bend, Oregon. Yeah. So, as you know, I hosted recently this microdose fair here and you gave a talk. It was, it was brief, but it was so amazing. You were so passionate. And the topic was about safe sourcing and just educate, as much education as possible about, caution and for those that are interested in sourcing a psychedelic. I thought it was really helpful to hear your guidance for those that don't know what they're, they're like, well, where do I even go? Where do I go? And once I get there, how do I know that it's safe? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Andrea Shuman:

Yeah, definitely. I think it's a really important topic right now as people, as this comes into people's consciousness, they don't know how to access it. It's not legal in their state right now. I think it's important for everyone to understand that there's nowhere, Um, where it's like fully legal to just have your microdoses in your home. And, at this point there's nowhere in the United States that's actually true. Colorado's the closest, but still not quite. Yeah, and so they have a bit of a, you can, it's closer to the marijuana laws and that you can grow yourself. Um, but there's still not a legal channel for, microdose sales, even in Colorado, it's more like you can be gifted, you can grow it yourself, you can be gifted, um, or you can be part of the larger legal structure. And that is tempting for a lot of people, often until they find the price tag that is attached to it. So, because a lot of these laws, and especially Oregon's law, wasn't set up for microdosing, it was set up for macrodosing, and there's every fee imaginable tacked onto this, structure, over, kind of over regulated as they do when they bring in new, industries, they didn't make any space in the Oregon law for, for microdosing. In fact, It was intentional on the part of the people that wrote it. They really wanted to focus on, the big doses, the therapy settings, all that. And so they made a conscious choice not to include microdosing, which many of us. Fundamentally disagree with with that said, you can in states where there's legalities have legal ways to access. Um, there's a few places in Oregon, uh, where you can go and become part of their micro dosing program, but you're talking about your dose being like, Your dose itself being 20 to 50 for a dose, and then whatever you're paying for the service on top of that, to be there at this licensed clinic or whatever larger program you have to participate in, where is the regular price of a micro dose? on what we call the gray market. that's the gray market means a gray market is a place where there is some level of regulation, but you don't fit into it. And so rather than being a black market, it's completely illegal. It means there is a legal structure, just not for you. So, when we look at it that way, um, we want to like, we want to look at like, The actual cost that it ends up being to, to the person to work in the gray market, which is closer to between 2 and 50 cents and 10 the very highest end. Um, and that doesn't come with all these other pieces, unless you want to engage with a microdosing coach. And for those that don't know, remind us what a microdose is. Oh, I will definitely remind you of what a microdose is. You know, you said the word sub perceptual and, and people will argue about this until they're blue in the face. I don't think it's really necessary to argue about it, but, um, generally macrodose, we want to say is something that is going to alter your mind. You're not going to be able to drive. Maybe you will be, have lots of colors swirling. You might be going very inward or, um, distortions in your visual range. Um, whereas a microdose. In my opinion, you should be able to drive, do a spreadsheet if you know how to do a spreadsheet, parent your kids, keep your appointments. I'm micro dosing right now. Okay. So I just, I took my micro dose about 20 minutes ago. it's not sub perceptual in that I can perceive it in my body, but it doesn't stop me from doing anything I normally would do. It doesn't make me high. It doesn't make me, Unable to have this conversation with you. In fact, when we're done, I'm going to go ahead and deal with some pricing structures and things like that and have another meeting.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

What is the micro dose range? Okay, so here's one that's gonna really It's going to kind of mess with your head a little bit. Okay. We're in the place with mushrooms that the marijuana industry was when it first became legal, where they had to help people understand the difference between smoking a bowl and eating a 10 milligram piece of candy. Okay. So they went from understanding things by weight to understanding things by milligrams of active constituents. That is where my company, It wants people to understand things. That is where I want people to understand things is inactive, but for the sake of this particular conversation, we're going to kind of have a dual conversation because it's going to take a minute for people to untangle it. It is kind of a messenger. Messaging nightmare. Okay. So take mushrooms, any kind of mushroom. The potency's gonna be different. And so that's the thing exactly you're looking at. So your teacher, your penis envy, your melmac, your golden teacher. Yeah. All these different strains that you hear about, they have different levels of psilocybin. So a hundred milligrams of golden teacher might only have a half a milligram of psilocybin in it. Whereas, whereas like a hundred milligrams of, you know, albino penis envy might have a like. 0. 9, milligrams. So just under a milligram of psilocybin in it. You can, it can really go, the range is really huge, which is why sometimes people will try one microdose at a hundred milligrams and have one result. Try a totally different microdose at a hundred milligrams. I have a completely different result. It's because the psilocybin is not consistent. So it is great. Um, it's a one, one of your first indicators is. Do you have any understanding of how much psilocybin is in what you have? So that's kind of your, your first education point. Are you trying to access something and kind of stabbing in the dark? Um, so, so that, you know, defining a microdose, if you're going to think about it from a, from a psilocybin perspective, we're going to be somewhere between. Uh, half a milligram of psilocybin and two milligrams of psilocybin in dry weight. You might think of that somewhere between 50 milligrams by weight of, of mushrooms for a light dose up to 250 milligrams by weight. For a little bit more hefty of a dose and what's micro for you is not micro for me and it's not weight. It's not subject to gender. It's not subject to height. What it is subject to is the health of your serotonin receptors. Um, and so if you have a long history of being on SSRIs and you have little stragglers out there that are kind of. We haven't gotten to uptake in a while, and so we're just kind of, it's going to be harder for that psilocybin, which actually needs to plug in. This is my nerve. This is my nerve plugin. So the psilocybin is a psilocybin. This is my nerve receptor has to come in and plug in that. But if we're a straggler and we can't plug, then we have to go looking for other receptors. receptors and we're kind of the chemicals wandering around your body looking for something it can plug into. It goes ahead and plugs into the one that it can. And maybe that one is a little bit more fringe and therefore it ends up needing a lot more medicine to get in there. Okay. So somebody who's been on SSRIs, SNRIs. a higher level of medicine, yeah, in order to, to have an impact might be quite opposite for somebody who is like real anxious and on anti anxiety type of medicines, they might need less, which is why I say we can't treat them. Anxiety and depression as if they are the same thing, even from a microdosing perspective. yeah. I get so many questions, private messages about dosing and it's, I think people are thinking it's gotta be an easy answer. You know, like you take this much Tylenol, like that's a pretty standard, right? And this is different. It's How we understand it, everyone's going to process it differently. And that is important for people to know it's not a one size fits all. And the strains matter, the potency matters. And I would say, that this goes all the way back to safe sourcing, right? That you, you do want to source. From someone or a company that is transparent about, what you're getting. Otherwise, if you're just, going through a friend and you're getting some dried mushrooms and, you don't know what the strain is and you don't know what the potency is, you may end up having some pretty difficult experiences or unpleasant or disturbing experiences.

Andrea Shuman:

Or no experiences. And throw the baby out with the bathwater, essentially. And that's, I think that's kind of the worry of it, too. Beyond like, yes, you could get, I mean, usually when you're getting it from a friend, you're probably gonna not, you're probably getting something they've taken before and they know is maybe somewhat safe, but like, when you are a person who wants to abide by the law, and I'm probably speaking to a lot of your audience here, you want to abide by the law. Um, and you want to do this thing that right now is in this really funky place and doesn't have a legal way to access. You may very well be tempted to access something like the Diamond Shrooms bars that were in, uh, I call them head shops or, you know, gas station convenience type of place that where they got really sick and even died. Exactly. So you might be, you might, you might be like, Oh, well that looks legit. It's in a legit store. Okay. I don't have to, order this, on the black market, on the gray market, like it's probably better. Right. And this is one of those places where common sense is not common. This is a place where like the thing that seems right is not right. And these bars, when in the stores, they don't have psilocybin in it. In fact, let's talk about diamond shrooms. And this is something I want people to look up. I want them to. Google this incident in case they didn't do this before. And I think they spelled it S H R U U M S. Sometimes you also can look at the marketing of, uh, of a thing. And if it looks real, like teenage psychedelic, just go ahead and pass it by at this point. Um, you know, so, so they have red flags all over the place, but people didn't really look at them or know what they were looking at. So somebody who is a savvy marketer. Is going to look at Diamond Shrooms Instagram and website and be like, wow, that's all stock photos and just crap, you know, and it just doesn't look like it does. It looks like a, you know, kind of happy people. What they had in there was not mushrooms. What they did was try to blame it on Amanita Muscaria, which is that like red and white. mushroom, which we can talk about later, which is an amazing, amazing medicine. And I hate to see it blamed for what happened with diamond shrooms. Um, the vast majority of their bars had no mushrooms in it by a testing. they had concentrated Kava lactones, which come from Kava Kava, which is again, a medicinal plant. But anytime you take a plant out of context, and then you. concentrated, concentrated, concentrated, and then stick it in something to try to make you high. It's going to have a different effect. In addition to the cobalactones, they had four ACO DMT, which is what you might have come up as like synthetic mushrooms. And people might call it synthetic mushrooms. There are ways to use 4 ACODMT cleanly, but not the way they have, they had done it. And, it, you know, they, so you have a synthetic, kind of something that's supposed to mimic the, expression of psilocybin in your body, plus covalactones, which Anyone who's taken kava at a full dose knows it makes you kind of drunk. That's the effect of kava kava. It's more of a silly kind of out there feeling. And when you mix it with these other kind of experimental chemical psychedelics, they even found something that might have been psychiatric medications in those bars. So not only are the head shops selling things that are unregulated. They're selling things that are flat out dangerous and they're avoiding psilocybin itself for the legalities. But the reality is you're safer sourcing psilocybin from several gray market companies that can be recommended over going to your local head shop because of this. I guarantee you that the head shop owners have not researched it, have not done their work on it. And are selling it because they're popular. And then they can convince people that these are magic mushrooms that are legal. But there isn't such a thing for you to access at a gas station..

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

So I just would say, I was just validating how scary, just how scary it is and how important it is to educate around it, for those, we know this from harm reduction models. It's not about like, scare people into not. Sourcing it's more like we know that people are interested in this. We also know that micro dosing is really helpful, and that there's a lot of initial, anecdotal research that still shouldn't be taken lightly. That's that is showing us that it that the potential benefits outweigh the harm. And so people are going to source. And so it's like, okay, well, let's help people source in a way that is as safe as possible.

Andrea Shuman:

Yeah. There's a, there's some wonderful websites that are really helping to be guardians of this information and helping to get people to where they need to go. Um, so psychedelic passage is one of them in Oregon. Um, they're great. They vet their, um, their facilitators. So they make, they do background checks. Um, They make sure that you're not going to have some predator as a facilitator, which is a worry when you are in an altered state. And so you mean for like macro psychedelic, yeah, work. Oh, for sure. It needs to be vetted. So they've got practitioners, they've got medicine makers. They, um, refer to places like mine who can support you in other ways, you know? So, um, they have a PDF called the safe sourcing guide. It's a wonderful thing to, you know, to, to engage with. Um, and so I would definitely recommend you, um, uh, look at places like psychedelic passage. There's also a newer site called the psychedelist. Um, and that one is still being formed and that's another referral site. Again, very well vetted, very like super intentional. Um, so these are places that you can kind of get in on the information, but you need to be aware of all the sites. Scams that are out there. So you know, utilizing source, you know, sourcing guides like psychedelics or like psychedelic passage guarantees you like a little bit of safety there because they've worked with these people. They know who they are. They, um, they're not going to send you there without vetting. So automatically you're a little safer there.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Important here in, here in Oregon. You know, we are lucky here in Oregon and, and particularly in Bend, there are some amazing, folks that are facilitators, groups that are, that are doing, vetting their facilitators and working with both, really reputable underground facilitators, but also those that are working above ground as licensed facilitators here in Oregon. So yeah, for sure. I mean, I think if anything, start, with a state where like Oregon and Colorado. Talk to people that you trust, you know, reach out to either of us, and, and microdosing, although is often talked about in terms of self directed, it doesn't have to be. And a lot of people do benefit from working with a facilitator that knows about microdosing to help support the process, you know, with intention setting, with, focusing on the work you're already doing alongside the Because you and I both know that this isn't a magic pill. This isn't like, how like primary care docs are prescribing SSRIs and they just prescribe it and you know, it's like, be on your way. It's not. This is, this is different. This is, we are really passionate about this idea that, these micro doses, these, medicines, whether they're plant or not, you know, LSD, for instance, work best. When working alongside these other things that you're doing, like the intention setting, like the therapy or the coaching or the, you know, self directed introspective work. but certainly not just taking it and then hoping for the best. That's it.

Andrea Shuman:

You can't take microdose every day or you'll lose its potency anyway. And so, and also if you're tapering or if you're on some kind of medication, There is a real danger right now. People are getting to the point where they're like, I'm done with my psychiatric meds. I want to be done. And what they really want to do is take that psychiatric medic, throw it in the garbage, pick up their microdose and just walk away and be like, I got this, but that's not how it works. In fact, they work so incredibly different that it's really important for safety to understand that ditching one for the other is not going to work.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

And What I want to make sure gets highlighted, because it was super important what you said, was that there is, I think because of the hype around microdosing and even macrodosing, people are like, well, Fuck my psychiatric meds. I'm going to just use psilocybin or LSD or whatever. And what you're saying is, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. Let's do this safely.

Andrea Shuman:

And, and partly, you know, what you see when you start taking mushrooms and be a real wake up call is that they are a nonspecific amplifier. So rather than the complete opposite, you're trying to dull everything down and you're okay. I've gotten to a point now I want a microdose, but what are you about to do? You're about to embark on something where you are about to turn up the colors. Yes.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

It might turn up the cup for me. I know I microdosed once where, so two different times when I was new to microdosing, it amplified fatigue for me. And I was like, huh, maybe mushrooms just make me tired. Right. But I was working with a, with a, with a trusted professional at the time. And she was like, No, I actually think that the mushrooms are highlighting your sleep hygiene problems. And at the time I was, co sleeping with my little one and I had just stopped breastfeeding. And so I was like, yeah, there's some truth there. And so I get, I started, I got my aura ring. I started to track my sleep. And once I improved My sleep quality, right? Deep and REM, then the microdosing was showing me something else. It was no longer, I no longer was feeling fatigued, then I had a time where I was microdosing and I just, I felt this, these waves of grief and sadness, and I was like, this doesn't make any sense. I thought mushrooms were supposed to make you happy and like laugh and, to see, see colors brighter. And again, this trusted professional early on in my journey was like, not necessarily. It's showing you that, that this grief and sadness hasn't been attended to, and it's time to look at it and experience it, which is, to your point, the opposite of what the traditional, antidepressants, for instance, will do. Is that it'll, it, it helps, tune you in rather than tune you out.

Andrea Shuman:

Yeah, well, that's the thing is like, so it's not that one on one to one exchange and your experience is not going to be consistent. And so if people can be prepped for that, that their experience is not supposed to be consistent. In fact, it can be a real shocker because maybe. Time you take it, you're like, everything feels great. I'm not being reactive. I feel happy and productive. And you're like, this is the medicine. I found my thing. And then the next day you take it or your next microdosing day, you take it and you're like, just recontextualize something that happened in my childhood. And like, now I can. And it's really intense. And so, you know, especially if you're coming off of SSRIs, or that's been your experience, know that things have to come back online, just like when you get off birth control and your hormones start coming back online. There is a time. Checking in rather than checking out. That's the term I was looking for. Yeah. Getting more than, yeah. And you really do, if you are coming off a medication, see a professional that is trained to taper you and not just trying to go down on your own. Yes. Dangerous. So, so, so yeah. And then, you know, with that, considering like what, like when I say turn up the colors, I mean, like if what you saw before was blue, red and yellow, now you're going to see Azure and now you're going to see Crimson and now you're going to see. know, like lemon. Um, and so these are nuances in the emotions and you can start seeing bittersweet tolerating a conflicting emotion at the same time, which is actually the basis of being mentally healthy as being able to hold two truths at once, being able to hold something that is, attention, a dynamic tension at once without losing it. And, knowing that there are a lot more markers than are you unable to get out of bed versus are you able to do the, your physical job? There's more markers than that to, are you experiencing life in the way that you want to experience? And a lot of it's subjective, not objectively evaluatable.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm curious, you know, as we wrap up here, I always like to ask two different questions. One is, Is there anything about your own personal relationship with microdosing that you feel has been the most profound that you want to share? That's question one. And then question two is, is there anything you didn't get a chance to share today that you really want to?

Andrea Shuman:

Well, we'd love for people to join us on our community. We've got a love community. You can find us at patrion. com slash micro verse, and that's micro with a Y and Y C R O V R S E. And we'd love to see you there. We have some, support. We've got a community, we've got, All kinds of special access there, which is really wonderful. Um, yeah, and I know we have to wrap up, but of course I could talk to you forever. I, what I really hope people will do is take a pause again, holding two truths at once. Yes. You want to abide by the law and yes, you want to microdose. No, you cannot go to your gas station and get it because it's legal. You are going to need to watch out for certain channels. The one thing I didn't share was. I've started talking about the, a little bit of this, the scams that are going on. Be very wary of Facebook groups. They do, they do predate on mothers specifically. There's a ton of microdosing moms, Facebook groups. They have huge amounts of followers. What they do is they bring you in, they give you a telegram thread to go ahead to, you make an order, you give them money, and then they tell you that it was stopped, by, so they scare you to let they, Oh no, your thing was stopped. stopped by the police or you can go and pay to release it or something like that. Oh God, really common scam. It gets a lot of women, especially women in their fifties. And I will say that women in middle age women, you know, forties to seventies are probably the prime demographic for, for microdosing. And they really, predate on the older women in these, sections. So make sure, you know, someone who's dealt with the company, make sure that there's something like third party testing in place, and make sure that you have a lab report to look at that, you know, what's in there and that it says there's still assignment in there, because if it doesn't, then you're not engaging with microdosing in the way we're talking about.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, I will definitely put all of the information you mentioned in the link for people to access, uh, we didn't get a chance to talk about all the amazing functional and adaptogen, products that you have, but for those that don't know, please go to the website. There are so many amazing, Products that you can access. Andrea is doing it, the right way, so to speak, um, and is really skilled at what she does. And I know you mentioned this at the Microdose Fair, that if, if anyone has any follow-up questions that they can reach out to you through the website and, that you're a resource in that regard as well. And, and I thank you for that. And I'm so glad to have had a chance to drop in. We finally made it happen. We also didn't talk about, we were about a week past the presidential election of 2024. And no matter who you voted for, there's a lot of energy out there around that. And also in election years, we see this, that a lot of things either, get rolled back. Or rolled forward or pause entirely and so I know that everyone in the psychedelic community is going to be watching to see to what degree this may or may not affect. efforts that have been made to decriminalize, to recategorize, and to, and to make these medicines more accessible, safely accessible, and legal.

Andrea Shuman:

That's its own show. Oh, yes, indeed. You can find us at micro drops. com with a Y. I'm still really, really grateful that you had me on today. Dr. Sabrina, I really appreciate it.

dr--sabrina-hadeed_1_07-19-2024_133821:

Yeah. Thank you. And you're welcome.