Faith in Kids
The Faith in Kids podcast is all about helping families raise children in the Christian faith. On this stream, you'll find lots of podcast for parents, presented by Ed, Amy and Jam, as well as a whole load of podcasts in Season 1 which are to be listened to as a family together. We’re not trying to give you the answers, but a few starting points. We hope and pray you’ll be inspired to give it a go. Every family can.
Faith in Kids
Faith In Parents #113 | Raising Confident Kids
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The special guest is... Ed Drew! He's written a book. It's out!
Hear the Editor's guide to writing a book, Amy's top tips for the little people in your head and Ed's desire to avoid being the guru with the radical hot take. This episode is all about helping parents to help their children know 'who they are' before 'how they should behave.'
People:
Ed Drew - is the Director of Faith in Kids. He is the author of Meals with Jesus, the Wonder of Easter and The Adventure of Christmas.
Amy Smith - is a writer for Faith in Kids.
You seem very concerned. You want to talk a lot. This is your, like, hobby horse identity seems to be the thing, the bit of the drum that you are beating. That's deliberate. Where has that come from? What is your hope?
SPEAKER_00I should start by saying, Amy, that when, as we often do at Faith in Kids, are talking to people about Christian parenting and Sunday school, youth groups in churches, there's a fear I have that people think we've got a new methodology. I don't want to be that guy who says, unless you hear what Faith in Kids say, you can't do it. So normally on these things, I like just to say we've got an old story. On this, that's not an exception.
SPEAKER_02the faith in parents podcast i'm amy it's lovely to be with you well today very special guest and also normally the co-host but today he's sitting in the author experts chair why don't you introduce yourself
SPEAKER_00i don't i don't i'd like to put on a funny accent i'm not i'm still ed i'm still the director of faith in kids but i've written a book and let me tell you writing
SPEAKER_02a wait no no drum roll What was that? Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Writing a book is really hard. It is. But I've done it and I feel great.
SPEAKER_02Well done, Ed. Well done. So tell us, you've written a book. What is the title of your book, Ed?
SPEAKER_00It's called Raising Confident Kids in a Confusing World. In little writing at the bottom of the book, it says... A Parent's Guide to Grounding Identity in Christ.
SPEAKER_02Well, generally speaking, if someone puts a subtitle on their book, as well as a main title, they're a bit confused as to what the book is about. However, the fact that you've used confused in the top title tells me that you're not. You know that there is something that is confusing that you want to help with. I think that's true. So, Ed, when I look at this title, it does make me feel slightly nervous. Because I don't know about you, but I don't feel like I need more confident children in my life. I get to experience quite a lot of children who confidently think that they know better than me and should ignore my advice or confidently tell me the time wrong or just are confident and a bit precocious. I think you mean something else. Tell us what you mean. I
SPEAKER_00do, Amy. What I mean is that at the moment, children are being asked more and more to define who they are. So that might be in... That now it really matters that our children are really good at something. So our children feel like they need to be number one in maths, the fastest in their class, the tallest in their class. Our children are being asked as they get a bit older even to start thinking about their sexuality. And we've told those stories before on this podcast that perhaps before they've reached puberty, they're being asked, are they gay, bisexual or heterosexual? And even they're being asked to work out their gender. And certainly they might be being asked questions. Are you religious? Are you a Christian or are you a Hindu or are you an atheist? So children, more than ever before, are having to make up more labels for themselves. So the confidence I'm speaking about here is just the confidence to know who they are so they can make better decisions, so they can be more secure in who they are, not in a precocious way.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And secure in Christ, ultimately.
UNKNOWNYes.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, ultimately. We believe that's the only identity that really counts, Amy.
SPEAKER_02Don't we just? Now, Ed, as your colleague and as now the person grilling you in the mastermind chair, whatever it is, I want you to explain to us. You seem very concerned. You want to talk a lot. This is your, like, hobby horse identity seems to be the thing, the bit of the drum that you are beating. That's deliberate. Where has that come from? What is your hope?
SPEAKER_00I should start by saying, Amy, that when, as we often do at Faith in Kids, are talking to people about Christian parenting and Sunday school youth groups in churches, it's There's a fear I have that people think we've got a new methodology. I don't want to be that guy who says, unless you hear what Faith in Kids say, you can't do it. So normally on these things, I like just to say we've got an old story. On this, that's not an exception. On identity, what we're saying in our resources and in this book is it's not a new story. Christianity has always been about identity. So when Jesus Christ came, he talked about the lost and the found. He talked about the sick and the well. He talked about, in Paul, the dead and alive. So the Bible is always about identity more than it's about beliefs. It's about who we are even more than it's about what do we believe and who do we trust. So, for instance, we're all created by God. That is who we are, whether we believe in him or not. So I guess it's my hobby horse because I've become convinced that too often we can make Christianity, particularly to children, out to be what they do. I think it's much better. And I'd like to say the Bible has taught me that, that where we can, let's be telling children who they are.
SPEAKER_02Ed, tell me your favourite Bible verse, one of the many. About being children of God.
SPEAKER_00Amy, my favourite Bible verse is the one with two exclamation marks in it.
SPEAKER_02And lavished, lavished. The word lavished doesn't appear in the Bible enough.
SPEAKER_00Amy, 1 John 3 verse 1 says, See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God. And that is what we are. That verse is full of identity language. We are children of God. That is who you are. It's not that's what you believe. It's not that's what you do. It's that's who you are. To become a Christian, you have become, you are, you've been named as a child of God. It's a bit like going up to your parents and saying, am I doing a good job of being your child? Am I enough of your son? Do I need to believe it more? No. That's the great thing about being a child and being a parent. It's who you are. It's who your family is. You don't have to try to be a family. It's who you are.
SPEAKER_02So, Ed, as children of God, that's who we are. That should affect how we live. So how, as parents, we want our children to do what's right. We want our children to be kind, to be loving. We want to train them and teach them to do good things. How do we not just end up doing... your identity is your behaviour because there is an element of it's linked. So I want you to love other people. So, you know, when you do it well, I'm going to tell you well done, do more of that. How do we go for the heart in parenting situations?
SPEAKER_00We all want well-behaved kids. Everyone behind every door across the world wants well-behaved kids. I don't think there's many parents who think I don't care what my child does ever. So everyone wants well-behaved kids. Christians do too. The difference is that we believe the best way for a child to be well-behaved is if there's a work of the Spirit in their life, is if the Spirit is making them to be more like Jesus. And the Spirit works in every Christian. So the Bible story is work to help them trust in Jesus. The story I often tell people is I've grown up doing camps with teenagers in the summer, one week a year. We talk to them about Jesus, we get to know them. Often they might come from your own church, so you know them. Sometimes when you're meeting a new young person, you're on day three, you've played some football, you've run around, you've been to some talks, you've had a great time, you've had a meal together, you might say, are you a Christian? Do you think, do you call yourself a Christian? Just to understand where they see themselves. I notice that way more than half say, of the young people I asked that question to, their answer is, I'm trying. Young people normally think Christianity is about trying to do something. The Bible doesn't recognise that. The Bible does say, try to be good. It doesn't ever say, try to be a Christian. The Bible says you either are or you aren't a Christian. Again, it's like saying, if you said to your son, are you my son? And the answer is, I'm trying. You know, that would break your heart You'd be thinking, where have I gone wrong? That you're not certain of your love. So I think that just means that in our parenting, we just want to enjoy the story of we're God's, we're his children, we're his family. You know, we don't go to church because we think it's the right thing to do. We go to church because it's who we are. It's where we hang out with other people who are like us. So I just, these are details. And most of the time as Christian parents, we're still just shouting shoes a lot. And we're still just trying to make our children brush their teeth and go to the loo before you get in the car. This is the same thing for all of us. But perhaps when we're talking about behaviour, rather than just don't lie, we might give them reasons why we don't lie. It's because of who we are.
SPEAKER_02So Ed, I think I know you well. I would say you're somebody who does seem quite secure in who they are. There's not many people that can wear a Middlesbrough football shirt with a plaid jacket over the top as a regular wardrobe feature. But I know that this also wasn't the story of your whole life. I know that for you as a child, as a teenager, there were tough times of not feeling secure in who you were. Can you tell us a story from your own life of how you have grown to understand where your value lies, where your identity lies.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do remember as a teenager being asked by my mates, you know, do you still call yourself a Christian? And I either lied or fudged the answer, even when I knew it was true, just because I just found it too difficult. And that's not quite the same thing, you know, that's just how hard it is. And I think it's even harder now to be a teenager. So our teenagers... need a great deal of compassion and care from the whole church, not just parents. I do think for me, it's in the hardest times that identity matters the most. So for instance, going through bereavement, when someone you love dies. I do think in those moments, who we are really counts for where we're heading. The certainty we can have in the saddest of times. I think when friendships are difficult, When friendships are difficult, as I've certainly experienced, you need to know, does my value depend on how popular I am? But I have to say, I really think it's in parenting that you notice it the most. Because in parenting, I think you're much more aware of your part of shaping an individual. And I do think as parents, again, I think we all want secure children who, when they're away from us, make great decisions. In other words, they're not swayed by who they're with. I think as parents, you find yourself wondering, where does that come from? How do I do that? How do I help my child to just have this strength of character to say, no, I'm going to do this? And I love reading about these psychology experiments where, you know, if everyone else is doing it, they find that most people just go along with the crowd. I
SPEAKER_02think parenting as well is the thing that makes us also question our identity the most. So, like, I was quite a together and godly individual in my own humble opinion until I got married and then I was still quite a together and godly individual who was you know doing all right until I had children and it brings you to the end of your own ability to cope with these things and you question you know and I think that's one of the hearts for us at Faith in Kids is that we we want to encourage parents that as much as we can often feel at the end of our resources that is an incredibly safe place to be as Christian parents, because we are ready to depend on the Lord. We're ready to find our security in him. We're ready to trust him. And those are the moments when we are actually being the people that God wants us to be for our children. Those, you know, come with me, the person who struggles, and let's learn how to depend on Jesus together. That, you know, wow, that sounds doable, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_00Amy, we had a conversation just today about a conversation with a friend who was reduced to tears by the thought of the responsibility they have for little children. Two children under five, they feel scared. Do they have enough? Do they have it within themselves? And I do think as a parent, we either get crushed or we become cynical to the role we have as parents, which is, if this is on me, we're all in real trouble. And as our children get older, they start to notice, if this is all on you, Dad, we're in real trouble. So we are keen to say that parenting may be crucial in helping us to understand what it is to be a Christian, what it is to trust in another, what it is to say, this doesn't need to be on me. I haven't got this. And in my weakness, he's made great.
SPEAKER_02Good. That's true, that. For this, we have Jesus. That should just be on like the nappy changing bags. We should bring out a line of merch that just continues throughout life. Parenting. We have Jesus, we're going to be okay, people. You know, for the line of, no, Ed is now just descended into hysterics.
SPEAKER_00Oh, wow. Well, you heard it here first, listeners. The line of faith in kids' nappy bags that say on the side, what, Amy? For
SPEAKER_02this, we have Jesus. There
SPEAKER_00you go. And it's true. It's absolutely true. If anyone wants to embroider that or get their sharpies out, send it to us.
SPEAKER_02Okay, Ed, serious question now, back in the zone. The confusing culture that our children live in, it's always been the challenge of growing up is working out the answer to who we are. I believe, and I think statistics back that up, that the pressure of growing up today is dialed up. We need to look at the sort of mental health referral stats to see this is a big deal. How can we help children understand that? how we can navigate some of these questions about who we are, our anxiety about the future, our sexuality, some of these big topics that have been thrown at us.
SPEAKER_00The first thing to say is let's not, as parents say, we've never had it so hard. We face an insurmountable problem and there's no solution. which I do think is tempting as parents, which is every generation of parents is thinking, goodness, how's this going to work? Because there's a set of problems that were not there a generation ago. So that is true of us. We have a set of problems as a generation of parents that were not there a generation ago. Instagram, Snapchat, gender dysphoria was not there in its current way a generation ago. So this is about identity. And crucially, parents are God's plan A for our children. So parents do not need to have the answer to every problem. Parents do need to be there for their children. So before you wave your white flag and give up, we stand on Christ our rock. We listen to his words and obey them. And we are there for our children. So, for instance... When we drop off children at school, aged five for the first time, and we're in trouble of crying as much as they are, in that moment, we don't need to open our Bibles and give them 76 verses. We give them a hug. We whisper in their ear, Jesus goes with you. And off they go. So I don't want to overcomplicate it. I don't want you to think that parenting has to be a long series of painful conversations. If they're under five, it's a word in their ear. It's a squeeze of their hand. It's a great big hug. And when they're 16, it's a longer conversation, but it's still with a great big hug and it's still with a great big love and it might be someone else getting involved too because they're a bit bored of you. But parents, God has placed you there. He has given the children you need and he has given your children the parents they need.
SPEAKER_02Where do you think we as parents and parents our kids tend to find our identity our sense of value apart from christ like where where does it go wrong
SPEAKER_00i have a working assumption that by the age of 10 i think our children know what we prioritize what gets into our diaries what gets into our weekend and and what What never gets cancelled? What do we prioritise above everything else? I think they see that by the age of 10. And I am reluctant to say that I know what everyone else's identity is. But I guess, who do you phone when you're in tears? What makes you more angry than anything else? What do you find makes you most anxious about your children? What do you worry about the most for them? What do you dream about for your children? What do you hope they will be in 20 years time? If you were to sort of drive up to their home, what do you hope you would be seeing? Where would they be? Who would come out the door with them? Each of us has those joys and they become our identity. They can easily become what we think is going to make our children and us feel secure.
SPEAKER_02And we see that, don't we, in the lives of our own kids. Like we see the things that break them and the things that delight them. We see the things they're motivated by. You know, I know the city I live in and the culture I'm part of, the brands that you wear are huge. And the places that you go and trainers that you have. And further down, younger the years, the parties you're invited to, connections that you have. How can we help? Tell me a story, Ed, of how we can help our children and respond to them, navigate them. those challenges?
SPEAKER_00I think there's a lot of stories. The one that comes to my mind that was a particular part of our story was when one of my children felt like they had no friends. I say felt like because they were telling the truth. You know, I think when we searched around in church or on relatives or whatever, we found people who loved them dearly and friends. But at school, they felt like they had no friends. And as a parent, tears before bed I don't want to go to school tomorrow broke my heart and I think when children cry about the same thing for days or weeks or months or years I think for most parents that I certainly found myself thinking how can I take this pain how can I suffer this so that my child doesn't need to in that moment what do we say what do I say Because I know the big temptation is let's arrange a play date. Let's arrange a sleepover. Let me talk to your teacher.
SPEAKER_02Let's climb over the fence and turn up at playtime and organise a game. And you're playing with Darren.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And even the stories of that mean kid. You know, everything in you. And it happens, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_02I'm going to go and
SPEAKER_00have a word. Exactly. And we're still getting letters back from the school saying, parents, please do not try to solve your issues outside the school gate. And to be a Christian. tests do i really believe my child needs jesus more than friends and do i really believe that if my child knows the care of jesus christ then some of the hurt they feel in life it gets a bit smaller because jesus said seek first his kingdom and his righteousness and all these other things will be given to you so that's the story for me of When I pray, dear Father, please can tomorrow have a bit more Jesus and it'd be really good if it had a friend in it too.
SPEAKER_02Part of the growing up story for our kids, and I think as we've already said a bit before, the sort of development of the cultural narrative about bodies, about sexuality, about gender, means that we are having some of those tough conversations, or maybe we're not, we're trying to avoid them, But for our kids, that they are faced with more confusion. And I think I can see in my own kids' lives, those questions about bodies and sexuality are coming earlier. How can we help our children? How can we have those conversations as adults when we feel ill-equipped for the world? It feels so different from the one I grew up in. I mean, what you've said before about, you know, there's nothing new here. Like I know my mum's head was falling off with stress about magazines and Top of the Pops and what people wore and the influence that was having on us and TV shows were banned and that kind of thing. So it's the same kind of concern, it's just directed in a different way. Today we're concerned about our kids, about sexuality, about gender. Help us.
SPEAKER_00The first step is again knowing as parents we're plan A so we can be the ones to talk about the hardest topics. And I'm always amazed by teachers who, particularly at secondary school, I think they have to work out what the next lesson is on. And in those first few years of teaching, they're having to work it out a week before the kids are. That's the story of parenting is just, can we just keep up? And the joy of parenting is you get to talk to your children to find out what the problems are. We get to hear. And they bring the questions to us. So I think the only trick is, can we keep wanting them to bring the questions to us? Can, in that moment when they bring the frightening question to us of, mum, I think I'm bisexual because I'm age nine and that's what we're taught about today. In those moments, can we react in a way that means they want to come back to us next time? We stay calm. We count to three. We ask good questions.
SPEAKER_02We tell the screamy people in our head to calm down a minute. We do the arrow prayer thing.
SPEAKER_00Amy, you could do the manual, Amy, of coaching parents in moments of panic. Give us the drill, Amy. In a moment of panic, what's the drill?
SPEAKER_02So you have to acknowledge that what's happening in your head, this is obviously neurologically accurate. All the little people are running around screaming. And that you have to trust the Lord that one of them is going to stay still and go, wait a minute, what just happened? And you have to go, what just happened? What did just happen? And try and be logical. So when the child said, mum, I think I might be bisexual. What just happened? They said, I think I might be. And you just need to ask them, tell me more about what you just said rather than. So the one person says, just check that you know what they're talking about. And then you say, Lord, help. So check that you know what's happened. Lord, help. On you go. That's it.
SPEAKER_00So that's the drill. That's the drill. As parents, let's try to have no word that can't be said in our house. In other words, whatever the body word is. That's coming up
SPEAKER_02next. We've got that
SPEAKER_00coming up on
SPEAKER_02the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. That's coming up next. We're lining up a podcast on talking about bodies, puberty and sex with our children. And there are words being said out loud that make some of us turn grey. If those words can be said in our homes, then our children know this is a safe place to talk about that thing. Whereas if we look absolutely terrified and we change the subject and ask if everyone would like a nice warm cup of tea... then our children learn we can't talk about it at home. So these issues that frighten us, nothing is out of bounds. Everything gets talked about.
SPEAKER_02And I think what we've also learned is that we don't, you know, I'm marking in the diary that on this date, we're going to do all of the conversations about this thing. We're going to put the lights on bright. We're going to sit you down. This is now the time. So you might have to do that, otherwise you'll always avoid the topic. But what we're looking for is dripping things in as they come up, responding, spotting. When in a film have you seen like relationships portrayed as like the be all and end all or someone's response about their body, whether that's good or bad? And come on, how many times a day do those happen? Oh, I look fat in this. You know, oh, what does God say about your body? How does that change the way we look after it? We're looking for those moments to weave all these kind of identity conversations into life. Aren't we, Ed?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And when they're younger, it's in the moments of tantrums. It's in the moments of crying and stropping off and sticking your head under your duvet. And as you get older, it's in the moments of maybe them screaming into your face through tears. So the way of showing panic and inability to cope changes. I
SPEAKER_02also think something massive, isn't there, about those as they get older is to show them curiosity into why they're thinking what they're thinking. So there's a story that's in the book, Ed, of me standing on the beach with my son in my wetsuit and my young, slim and athletic son who, from my opinion, has a wonderful body. And mine that has come out of the drawer labelled robust. And that's okay. But he looked at me and said, I wish I looked like you in a wetsuit. And I thought, you cheeky little rat, because I thought he was winding me up. But I learnt, I have learnt, you ask the question, what makes you say that? And he then tells me, because I wish I was as strong as you. Because no one can push you over and my body is thin and weak and people can push me over. So it led to this really good conversation about bodies, about what we struggle with, about what's good and what's hard and how we can trust the Lord with whatever draw our body came out of. He knew what he was doing. Those are the moments that, you know, ask them why they think what they think. That's what we want, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00It is. And Amy, thank you for letting me tell that story in the book. I didn't manage to find, I've tried to pack the book full of stories because I think for parenting. just being told the right thing to do normally makes us feel guilty and tired. But hearing a story of Amy in a wetsuit on a beach and her son makes us go, ah, okay, I get it.
SPEAKER_02It could be as normal as that. Tell me one of your favourite stories from the book, Ed.
SPEAKER_00The one that makes people laugh the most, I think, is one of our family's first conversations about sex when we were driving past a field of cows and I said, I grew up, And we had cows. And one of the children asked me, where do the calves come from? And it was one of our first conversations.
SPEAKER_02Driving. Driving conversations are always the best. Eyes forward, no eye contact, braver to say
SPEAKER_00words. And I discovered, I just thought, my first thought was, why are we talking about sex for the first time with cows? Why couldn't we have covered this with humans first? Because when I then explained how it works with cows is you have a field of cows and one bull. And I explained what this bull did and... And then I got to the end of that story and just thought, oh, no, that is a terrible way of explaining
SPEAKER_02sex. However, the Christian distinctive of sex is that it belongs in marriage. Cows, however, do not get married. Well, you see, that's memorable. That's memorable. We've never been to a cow marriage.
SPEAKER_00And I also want to say, returning to a topic we've just had, that... My wife and I had been having recent conversations about her inability to find words to describe the female body in the bath, that are children's bodies. And I now have learned through the excellent podcast, we're meant to use the right words rather than strange euphemisms. So... In this story, we were having to use words that we'd been using like front bottom and ridiculous things like this. And I was really cross. I was thinking this is why we should have used the right words from the beginning.
SPEAKER_02It's true. It's true. Are you ready? Do you think you could say one of those words, Ed, to help us be brave?
SPEAKER_00If I say the word vagina now... We'll have to put an explicit warning on the show notes that we should not listen to this with children because we are finding as we produce more and more podcasts dealing with harder issues, we're having to warn people a bit more where they might listen to it.
SPEAKER_02God made it, Ed. It's all right. Okay, Ed, I want to ask you, so we've talked a lot about parents. What is the role that the church can play? in coming alongside parents and equipping them to have these conversations.
SPEAKER_00The church is God's greatest gift to the family. And I am convinced that if you know someone who's having a child, whatever they think of Jesus, you get to say, you should come along to our church. Because church is full of people who have walked the road before and done it. I do remember, as far as I can work out breastfeeding, I don't know how the human race is still alive. As a way of sort of giving... essential nutrients to babies it seems to me to be a system that doesn't work so i remember the number of mothers who came around our home
SPEAKER_02god's good design i mean god's good design
SPEAKER_00from an engineering point of view breastfeeding's a bit of a i look i honestly i actually don't know how the human race has got by because it seems to me every parent mother has a story of it not working properly And I just remember the number of mums...
SPEAKER_02And the answer has been... Oh, good. I'm getting to church.
SPEAKER_00The number of mums from church who would come around and help in those first few months when it just feels so difficult. Being a parent feels so difficult. Keeping a child alive feels so difficult. Who would come around and offer help. And then as children get older, we get to ring up the parent and say, like, how does this work? What did you say? Because there isn't much that's new under the sun. And you don't even have to copy them. You don't have to do it how they did. The joy of church is grace. There's enough grace to go around.
SPEAKER_02And for us as a family who've been through challenging times with teens going through struggles, mental health struggles, anxiety, and have asked for support from professionals and have been one of the many people who are sitting on CAMHS waiting lists, I think I want to say how, and I know it's not everybody's story, But I want to say how wonderfully helpful the church is and wonderfully helpful the church is from the spectrum of we'll make you your tea. We'll pray for you. We'll care about your child. We want to do what we can and we're going to ask what else can we do to help? And I do wonder how people navigate and cope without the church. I would love our churches to be places where we can be braver and at offering help and support and love to families because we've got something wonderful to share and something brilliant to give. So, Ed, there's been a little bit of drama in the Christian world lately about how people give endorsements to books and books that they haven't read. So I'd just like to publicly say that I can endorse this book, have actually read it. And surprisingly, people say that Like I read it in one sitting and I've always thought that's absolute rubbish. Nobody reads a book in one sitting. However, I did read this book in one sitting. And what I love about it is we've got real stories so that I know that you are at least as normal as me. And then we've got biblical truth, which helps me know that you didn't make it up and I don't just have to rely on your wisdom. And there's a story all the way through of taking on some of these tough, issues so that I can feel like I can have these conversations with my kids. Ed, that's why the chapters are structured the way they are, that's right?
SPEAKER_00I'm very grateful I had an excellent editor who was really clear with me the chapters had to be mercifully short. Parents do not have time or energy to read long chapters and he was also very helpful in encouraging me that to get stories in, to get some humour in and to hang around for just a little while on each chapter bit of the Bible is helpful. I tried to do that and he was kind to me and he kept a huge chunk of words not in the book. So what you're reading now is the cut down, simple, wonderful version. And I'm so grateful to have an excellent editor. There are some short questions at the back of each chapter so that we can talk about them together. Wouldn't it be great if we read a chapter together and we had a chance to chat with a friend about what we found and what we're thinking so that we can do parenting together? You don't need me. If I'm really honest, you don't even need my book. You do need your mates to do it with. Christians walking together through parenting in a great church. The Lord's got this.
SPEAKER_02But let's face it, if we don't have the book to make us do it, we ain't going to do it.
SPEAKER_00So it turns out you do need the book.
SPEAKER_02You do need the book. I think you do need the book. Plus, if it's over there, this is what he said. This is what this chapter is about. We all get to say, do we agree? Do we feel the same? Do we not feel the same? Look at the questions. What do we think about that? It's a great conversation starter. Ed, tell me, and if you don't tell me, I'll tell you the better answer. How could this book be used in churches with other parents? You've given us one idea. Give me two more.
SPEAKER_00I remember staying in a house where a church were using one of our family Bible times and the church had set up a WhatsApp group of those who are using the family Bible time book that I'd written. And while I was staying in their home, the mum got a message on a WhatsApp group to say from another mum in church, we have just as a family had our first ever family Bible time and my husband led it. And that is a story where it seems achievable. When we as a church are telling each other about the shocks, the stories, the surprises, the disappointments, everyone realises we're in it together. So that's not necessarily about the book, but it's about doing it together and it's about talking about it together. That's a great joy.
SPEAKER_02You could use it in small groups. You could talk about the questions together in small groups. People do book clubs, Ed, where they actually meet up and they read the whole book, talk about the whole thing. So to think you could do it on a weekly basis in a small group, to think you could meet up with a friend in a coffee, three of you, let's talk about some of the things, what we liked, what we didn't. Let's have a parenting session where we just chat about some of this stuff.
SPEAKER_00We should also say the chapters in the book are that my editor and I had long conversations about where in the book the chapters on bodies and sex and gender should go. And he came up with a conclusion that wherever you put them, people will want to turn to them first. So if that's you, you could just cut to chapters 7 to 9 out of 10 and read them first. Those are the grisly hard topics. Those are the things where there are words that none of us want to say out loud. But I think my editor's right.
SPEAKER_02So you're telling me it's not a complex plot line. I can read it out of order. It's good news. Ed, I'd love you to tell us your prayer for families as they read this book. I'd love you to tell us the difference you hope it makes in the homes and lives of families across the UK. Tell us and then pray it for us.
SPEAKER_00Amy, I prayed it this morning as I went for a walk. I prayed that this book would allow parents to grow more confident. It may on the cover say it's for confident kids. We want confident parents. We want parents to know they've got this because they're trusting Jesus. My prayer is that parents would grow in confidence and that there is no issue or topic. There is no cause of tears or anxiety. There is no terrifying event. There is no problem that parents don't have the chance to say. The Lord has got us so we can talk about this safely. I'm going to pray that now. Dear Father, I thank you that you have us. As parents who are trusting in you, Amen. Amen.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Ed. Well done. You survived. There you go. Would you like to say goodbye?
SPEAKER_00Thank you for joining us, Amy. You've been an absolute pleasure. Bye-bye. Bye.