The glorious news that I want to s you know everyone's take for this episode is we did we live by grace. This is why Jesus is the answer. You and I are not gonna get this just by hard work. Jesus Christ died because you cannot keep going and do this on your own. He did this for you.
SPEAKER_00Our lives are an adventure lived out there, taking us towards Jesus. The spills, the thrills, the moments of pain and crying and drama and fallouts, all of these are an adventure that is teaching us something that is moving us towards the greatest adventure of knowing Jesus, knowing more about him. Hello, welcome to the Faith in Parents podcast. I'm Amy, I'm part of the Faith in Kids team. I'm here with Ed, and we are here to say to you as parents, you've got this. You are the key influencer for faith in the life of your children. And that might feel scary, but we're here to make it feel safer. Because not only do you have the lives of your children responsibility for their faith, Jesus has you. Isn't that good, Ed?
SPEAKER_04I don't want to imagine what it would be like trying to parent without Jesus, Amy. I know you expect me to say that as Mr. Faith in kids, but I also happen to believe it. This podcast will be nothing more than the story of quick, we can do this.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely. Now, Ed, it's our first one back after the summer holidays. It's September. Can you hear the rustle of the new pencil cases? Uh, the water bottles that have not yet been lost, the white polo t-shirts are currently white. And my favourite thing, the favourite thing I like to notice about September, or two things actually. There's the children walking to school who are so excited that they've got a new coat for winter. So they've got on this big, like massive, like floor-length, like Arson Wenger football manager type coat, and they're wearing it in like 21 degrees because it's new and they love it.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Also, year sevens going into a new year in high school with blazers that look like from their dads.
SPEAKER_02I love that.
SPEAKER_04Six sizes too big. And can it not be my job to buy the new shoes? Because it breaks me.
SPEAKER_00School shoe buying is horrendous, horrendous, horrendous. Uh, we've had the whole thing. The child puts the shoe on and you say, Sir, how does it feel? And they say, I don't know. And you're like, Well, I don't know. What's the next what's the next question, Amy? Does he do you feel like it's squeezing your toes? Does it feel the right there's your toe at the end? And then you have to ask a load of questions about like parts of the feet. Do a walk walk for me. Let's see if they slip off. And then they walk and they do the stupidest. I can't remember how to walk.
SPEAKER_03Is there any part of your life, Amy, where it's conventional and it's just yes, no?
SPEAKER_00I think that is conventional. I see every parent doing that. I think that is the way it goes. And then there's the sort of tearful drop-offs. Yes. You're taking your little squinchy little treasure to reception for the first time, and they're just going to be tired. And then you're thinking, are they going to open the packet at lunchtime themselves? They're going to manage the lunchbox. Are they going to manage their trousers for the toilet? And I would like to reassure parents out there. I am the parent that the reception class teacher had to have a word with to say, could you explain to your boys that at lunch at playtime when they're outside they can't go for a wee behind the tree? They have to go in and use the toilets. Because obviously, weing behind the tree is a lot quicker. You can get back to playing. So that was a moment I just felt like the worst parent ever. So, Ed, your September vibe, September land in your house. Um, I want you to imagine that I am capturing the words that you say to your children.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, what would I what words would I hear a lot of? So if I was like doing a graph of like most commonly used words, so I could pick out like what would be your three words as a dad that you're saying the most, what do you think they would be?
SPEAKER_04I th I think they would be look out for a child to care for.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, this is deep.
SPEAKER_04You're not just shouting, put your shoes on. Okay, what I'm oh I see. Yeah, that we're going to relatable. Oh, okay, okay, sorry. I have learnt that the night before, yeah, where is your bag? Okay, because I am a last minute guy, okay, and too many times, first day of school, well, I've you know, it's two months since I last had my bag. I don't know where that's gonna be. And we then have to get into mum looking, which we all know is where mums find things, and we've all been looking for ages. So the night before, can we please work out what needs to go in our bag? Can we try to remember the week before? Like who's buying the shoes, not me?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, bag shoes. What's the third thing?
SPEAKER_04What's the third thing? I think I think it's probably like wear the new one rather than last year's comfy grey one.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, so uh we're a family of comfort over appearance. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So bag shoes could we not wear the one with stains?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, what why would we choose the trousers that don't reach your socks because they're comfy?
SPEAKER_00Okay, I think um, so I'm I listen, so our children could be forgiven for thinking. Um, I'm gonna throw lovely husband Steve under the bus slightly here, that um our main passion, particularly dad's passion in the house, is um flush the chain, turn the light off, and shut the door quietly. So that's like you do not need to like why have you left this light on?
SPEAKER_01Why have you so my daughter made him a Father's Day card from the light of your life and did the pitch on the front of a light switch that was on to just say, Look, see dad, this is why I always leave the light on.
SPEAKER_04Your daughter can turn any situation into a spiritual encouragement. What a gift she is to the world and your husband.
SPEAKER_00Flush the chain, turn the light on, and you know when you shut the front door, bang! Like the whole house.
SPEAKER_04I get that about cars.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04Why do children have to have to slam the door of the car as if it's never been taken? So everybody's teaching when you're inside. So yeah. All my issues.
SPEAKER_00So there we go. So we can we our children could be forgiven for thinking we were passionate about bags, shoes, chains being flushed and lights being turned off. But actually, what we want to try and say at the start of a term is let's little do a little reset. So if we're if we're doing a reset for our families, what would be the things that we want to go for? Because if we can actually articulate the things that we want to go for, we've got a chance of maybe getting there. Okay. So now you gave it away a bit before. Now we're going to go to what what what could they be? What what could they be that isn't bags, shoes, I mean turn the lights on?
SPEAKER_04There's there's a word to self, which is I have survived five or six weeks with my children on holiday. You know, that the word to self is like you're still their parent, even though they're about to go back to school. Please don't just shout out loud, when is your blessed school starting again? You know, I I am sick of my own children. I do think it's a word to self, which is come on, you are their dad 52 weeks a year. Uh it we've we've seen a lot of each other, and that's why we're frustrated with each other. Summer holidays are not a time when we say goodbye to our sin. Sadly, it stays with us. So, word to self, let's keep going. Still dad through school.
SPEAKER_00There are good things about routine.
SPEAKER_04There are.
SPEAKER_00So let's try and put good things in place.
SPEAKER_04And you have to switch that back on. Some of us are routine people, Amy. Yeah. And some of us are non-routine people. Yeah. And you and I happen to be non-routine people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I also appreciate having other people in my life, including other things for my children to do. And there is that, it's the fresh page of the exercise book. Like, this year has not been written. This year we are going to be the family that aims to do more of this.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's it's New Year's resolutions in September. Yeah. If you're listening to this in the Southern Hemisphere and you're just totally baffled, welcome to September. It's a month like any other. Sorry about this.
SPEAKER_00So, Ed, I'm going to push you.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00On your if you were thinking, what are the intentions that you're going to set more than we're going to turn up on time with the things that we need looking less scruffy?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I would love my children to know we are going to live this year for Jesus. I would, you know, that as a parent, we are not just stopping bad behaviour. We're trying to give them a sense of what does this year hold? What would I love them to what would I love them to be bored of me saying? It is not shoes, why have you lost your bag and have you made your pack lunch? I would love them to hear me saying we've had a great summer holiday. We have plenty of energy. You're looking forward to playing some football in the park. We score goals for Jesus. We work hard for Jesus. We're going to do some homework. We're going to live as if we have a king on his throne. And we're going to pray for the people who are sad.
SPEAKER_00So you want them to look out for others?
SPEAKER_04I do.
SPEAKER_00You want them to live for Jesus and you want them to pray.
SPEAKER_04Yes, I'd love, but I just want to smile. You know, that New Year's resolution thing. Let's go again, team. And I'm here too. I'm an enthusiast. And and and when I get met with sort of grumpy apathy, I'm like, come on, guys, we can do this. September's a good time for enthusiasts. We're going to go again.
SPEAKER_00So we're thinking a little bit about what makes us the distinctive Christian family. So every family wants to start and reset and go again and you know be tidier or be nicer to other people or work harder in school. So as the Christian parents, it's our role to, I like to think of it as set the wallpaper of our home, set the direction of where we're going, um, set this vision for our family. So what is the distinctive difference that we can see? How are we saying like our lives are different from the people next door because we've got Jesus? Yeah. So if I'm I'm pushing you on like a three-word dream that is about Jesus for your family.
SPEAKER_04Oh goodness. I mean, look, uh, three words. So next door, they are worried about pack lunches, school bag, and new shoes, just like I am. Correct. So we're saying, is there three words we can give our children? You know, they they must be they must be Jesus.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We we have an audience of one.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We serve him. Jesus is my first word.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_04Second word I think is gonna be prayer. Can we just get out the door with a prayer each morning and a prayer before bed?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04If our kids are getting older and are eye-rolling us a bit, let's go again with that. And the third word is care. My goodness, prayer and care rhyme, Amy, is is I think that prayer before bed, so thank you that I've had a good day, help me to sleep and have a good day tomorrow. Just when we pray for others or who is sad in your class, it just allows us not to think I'm the only person in the universe. So when we care for others, it is just saying Jesus is on his throne and he cares about other people and not just me. Jesus is not on his throne to entirely ensure I have an easy day at school tomorrow. He is he's doing some other things too. If we know that, it will help.
SPEAKER_00And I think as parents, it's giving yourself, you are you are the person who's leading the way. And I think that can feel scary. So you are the person who is deciding what happens in your family. And if you head somewhere, they're gonna come with you. Um I remember when my kids were very little sitting in the car, and I'd got everybody in and like car seats in and things clipped up and buggy in the back, and all the changing bag, and all the wipes and all the things that were required that felt like you were moving house for just you know a trip out for a couple of hours, and off we went driving down the road, and a little voice piped up from the back, you know, Mom, where are we going? And I realized at that point, oh, I haven't told them. They've got no idea what is happening. They don't know if we're going away for two weeks, two hours. I haven't said, but they were all calmly sitting in their little car seats, expecting adventure. And I just thought that's such a picture of what it's like for us. You know, a life of faith is saying, I'm trusting you for the future, and uh you're taking me somewhere good. And I just think that that whole like our lives are an adventure lived out there, taking us towards Jesus. So adventure, I'm choosing my three words. Yes, I'm going adventure, yes, because it's all all all the things that are happening around us, the the spills, the thrills, the moments of pain and crying and drama and fallouts, the all of these are an adventure that is teaching us something that is moving us towards uh the greatest adventure of of knowing Jesus, knowing more about him, and all of these are opportunities for us to learn something about his world, about us, about our need of him. So I'm going adventure, I'm going faith because this is all an opportunity for us to work out how do we trust God here. And I'm also um going for security. How are we secure in what Jesus has done for us? How are we secure? How are we offering our children the love and value um that is available to us all through what Jesus has done and through how much God loves us? So they're my three words, Ed.
SPEAKER_04Adventure, yeah, faith, security. Oh my goodness, Amy, they're absolutely brilliant. Adventure, faith, security. But I also think Are they the same every year, Amy, or is this just this year?
SPEAKER_00Uh I think they're there's they've often been the same.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think they get stronger uh as you go on go along as you go along. And as a parent, you probably get a bit more confident with thinking, no, we have to decide this stuff. We have to go somewhere.
SPEAKER_04I love that, Amy. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Ed, so um I'm also wanting to know. I'm also wanting to know. Um September, we can all feel like we've got energy to go again.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But how does this work out of September? Like, so should we just all give up? Do we throw throw in the towel? Um, as time goes on, and we've perhaps thought, oh, we've forgotten about that, and life has has crept in, and other things that we that we want to go for arrive. How do we keep our eyes fixed? Because it can be so easy to pull into there's birthday parties here and there's football opportunities here and there's school stuff here.
SPEAKER_04I mean, Amy, you're picking a list of neutral things. Yeah. You know, are you gonna give me a list of the awful things? Is that coming later in this episode?
SPEAKER_00I'm just saying in the neutrality.
SPEAKER_04So I think stuff is busy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the most common first issue.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00Life is busy, we get distracted, we go after other things, and we forget.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I mean, I I think it's very helpful, Amy. The way you f you framed the question earlier was imagine two homes next door to each other. Imagine both of those two homes have the same number of children and they're the same age. The same age is the same number of children as your family. The only difference between these two homes is one is a Christian home and one isn't. So I like to add yet. Thank you, Amy. So the reason that's helpful is because you can just think for a moment. I wonder how next door is different to us right now. They are trying to get their kids to a swimming lesson, they are frustrated that they've just discovered the wet swimmers at the bottom of a PE bag from last week. They are they are confused by how did we ever think this would work if you know if the car is over three roads away and I've got to get over here now? You know, they are they are tackling all of those things, and we are tackling all of those things, and firstly to say that's okay, it's normal. But what is the salt, what is the sugar that just that just turns your life a touch? And for that thought of how is Jesus changing this moment, in that moment, it might be, for instance, we stop shouting at our children and we discover I'm actually the reason we're late getting out the door. It's not their fault, I am to blame. So I'm gonna be less angry with them, and just for a moment I'm gonna remember it's alright. The Lord has got this, and if we are three minutes late, or I will learn to be three minutes early next week.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the freedom that you know as a Christian, you're modelling, you're saying sorry. Part of being a Christian is saying, I know that I stuff up and I say sorry when I do.
SPEAKER_04Take a breath, take a breath. This moment is not the end of the story. That is the relief of being a Christian. This is not the last moment. Uh, there is a way back from this particular moment, even if it's only as simple as I am disproportionately angry about the wet swimmers at the bottom of the bag.
SPEAKER_00So, Ed, I also think when we're on the road and when we meet different parents and we have different conversations, uh, the thing that they seem to think as like, you know, I love it when you do that, and it's a bit like magic, is when we're talking about how uh we talk about faith in the normal everyday moments of of of life. So you've talked about the wet swimmers. So I want to say, so in the moment when your child is like going for their first swimming lesson, so we're nervous about going into the swimming lesson. Yeah. We're going in the big bit that we've not been in before. Yes. We're nervous about how we look in our swimming costume compared to other people.
SPEAKER_05Such a long list.
SPEAKER_00So the c so there's so many different things that are happening there, and it's you know, where's the opportunity to have this faith adventure where we're offering security?
SPEAKER_04Amy, this is my heart, this is my heart. When I when I drop a child off at a swimming lesson, and my heart is I need my child not to be the worst swimmer in the class. When I drop my child off at the birthday, Oh, we're just supposed to be learning swimming. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We know we're learning all these things about faith security and other adventures.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we are, because as a parent, you discover it might just be me. You just discover your weirdly insecure heart. Suddenly, you care how many parties your child has been invited to in the first three weeks of the autumn term. Do I have the least popular child in my class? And how am I going to change that? As if, like, I'm the president of the largest country in the world, and my one goal is getting one kid some more friends. I this is my Amy, are you just laughing at me? I totally I'm this is my insecurity. Weirdly, I need my kid to be better at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, please don't invite me to my party.
SPEAKER_03That is the difference between you and me.
SPEAKER_04I I totally see that. I'm the only one who's counting how many parties my kid has been invited to, or how many goals they've scored, or how many goals they've let in, or I want to go out for the day and don't want to go to a party. Amy, and and that is fine, but let me just say, I think you have other insecurities, and we don't need to deal with them all right now. This is about me and my heart.
SPEAKER_03Sorry. You carry heart. I know. Is the therapy done now? Can we talk about something else?
SPEAKER_00Have have you worked out what you're gonna say to yourself that it's the media?
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna take a deep breath and I'm gonna say Jesus Christ died for me. Okay. My child's friendships, goals scored, goals let in, is not what defines me. Before I was a parent, I'd have just thought this is pathetic. What sort of a human being are you that you care this much about a five-year-old's party? And the answer is I'm pathetic.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's good that the Lord has taught you that and has still welcomed you home.
SPEAKER_04Thanks so much, Amy.
SPEAKER_00So, Ed, uh, what we've just talked about, it sounds like there's, you know, the normal with enthusiasm, we're aiming for good things, we're wanting to be a Christian, we're wanting to share more Jesus. Um, how can we know that this isn't just um Amy and Ed's pet talk of positivity for parents? Can you help me? Um, show me where in the Bible you could go to try and say vision setting for families is a thing.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so I first of all, I'm about to read a verse from the Bible. Great. So the challenge you put me before this episode was what is the Bible passage that for you is the dream family.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I'm gonna read this, and I think a listener would thinks I'm saying this is what my family is like.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no, this is aspiration.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Okay, so I I'm gonna read this, and maybe even I'm just gonna replace some of these words with like my family or my son, my daughter.
SPEAKER_00Well, if you tell us where you're reading from, we might be able to spot the bits where you're doing that.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Amy. Philippians 2, 1 to 4. Okay, ready?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Therefore, if your family have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if they have any comfort from his life, if they have any common sharing in the spirit, if they have any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Hear this bit, Amy. May your children do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, rather in humility, would your sons and daughters value others above themselves? Would your son or your daughter not look to their own interests, but would they look to the interests of others? Would my children understand that they are so loved by Jesus if they have just a tiny inkling of how much love Jesus has for them? Would they just give some of that love out to others? So now we then get just to the reality of everyday life. But the moment when your child sort of reaches across the table and grabs the ketchup or or the you know, or or just sort of elbows their sister to get her out of the way of the mayonnaise, just a moment of shh, pause. Imagine you loved her as much as Jesus loves you. Now we we can't say that all the time, but I do think I'm just thinking we definitely want to say it sometimes. We want to say, you know, that we want there to be a moment when my children are not in my house with me, and they are thinking this person is as valuable as I am.
SPEAKER_00Or the way that you're challenging that and correcting that is not just I want people to like you more.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_00It's trying to say, can you see the heart behind? So I'm just not trying to please don't do that because it looks embarrassing and looks like I haven't trained you to behave well in public.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_00It's please can you see that behind that lies a heart that doesn't value somebody?
SPEAKER_05That's right.
SPEAKER_00Can you see that behind that, if if our hearts were one, if we were thinking like Jesus does, yeah, we wouldn't behave this way. Yeah. So you're going for the heart rather than just please don't snatch.
SPEAKER_04And I just I feel, Amy, the one thing I have to clarify, because I'm slightly paranoid that people are thinking like I live in some sort of army. I think the armish are amazing, by the way. I'm all for horse-drawn carriages.
SPEAKER_01Don't confuse us. Okay. You're just trying to say.
SPEAKER_04No, this is not every sentence that gets said in my home. My home is mostly fighting for ketchup mayonnaise and the chips. Passion for condiments. Passion for my my life is mainly defined by passion for condiments.
SPEAKER_01Rather than a passion for Jesus and you're trying to say, can we shift?
SPEAKER_04And I'm saying, first of all, my heart. Okay. My heart has exactly what you're saying. As a parent, you have to be the one who knows where we're trying to go. So my heart has to be the first that's saying that's where the bar is set. Do nothing out of selfish ambition. It's not about you. If I can just keep thinking that a bit, then occasionally it will overflow. And I'll say, hang on, sh pause. Bobby. Just take a moment. You're not going to starve. Who do you want to pass a condiment to? I've I've literally never said that to one of my children. But I'm passionate about condiments.
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's great. Okay, Ed, I'm going to take you to somewhere else in the Bible.
SPEAKER_04Love this.
SPEAKER_00So we finished our last series. Yeah. Um, I was being nice to you. Thanks. I'm going to be nice to you again. Um, so I think uh a passage in the Bible that's meant a lot to us as a family, uh, because it sort of started out our family life, yeah, um, is 1 John 3, uh verse 1, one of your favourites hits. Oh, if not the favourite. So we had an adoption celebration party for our family. Yeah. Um, and you came, if you remember, we had a mad event.
SPEAKER_04I can't tell you. I I have rarely given a Bible talk in a room with so much noise.
SPEAKER_00There was a lot of noise.
SPEAKER_04When I started speaking, no one got quieter.
SPEAKER_00No, there was a lot of enthusiasm and party and small children, my friends from work, my friends from church, Steve's friends from work. Everyone had a very lovely bonanza of a day. Yeah. Um, and you spoke on this, these few verses. I did. Uh 1 John 3, verse 1. See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God, and that is what we are. The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Then, verse 2, dear friends, now that we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known, but we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
SPEAKER_04We shall be like him, maybe.
SPEAKER_00All who have this hope in him purify themselves just as he is pure. So Ed, this whole thing of like God has put your family together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh we are children of God with a family that he has put together deliberately, carefully, and we can expect him to be at work in us, so progress is happening. And like me, as I'm trusting God, as I'm trusting God for me, as I'm trusting God for my kids, I can expect there to be this upward trajectory till the day that I am with Jesus and like Jesus.
SPEAKER_04I mean, this is this is mental, Amy. When I read this, I had to go to a very clever friend and say I just went, yeah, it's great. I read this and it was, we should be like him. And I went to my clever friend and said, Does this mean when we meet Jesus we'll be like Jesus?
SPEAKER_00Pure and perfect. Pure and perfect, like him. I know. And the answer is yes. We're in the elevator in the right direction. So, Ed, I think you're very good at telling this story, so I want you to tell the story because you you tell it better than me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The yo-yo up the stairs. Can you tell me the yo-yo up the stairs story? Because I love that one.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Organization called Biblical Counseling UK. Uh they do what they say on the tin. They are all about helping people know that when you've got the Bible in your life, it's it's counseling you. That there is healing ahead. No matter where you've come from, no matter what you're going through, the Bible, another Christian opening the Bible with you can counsel you. They've got this picture of someone walking up the stairs. So, step one, imagine someone with a yo-yo playing with it. Goes down, it goes up, it goes down, it goes up. BCUK say your emotions, your feelings are like this yo-yo.
SPEAKER_00Your experience of how you feel you're doing as a Christian.
SPEAKER_04Your experience of parenting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Good days, bad days. Highs, your child has done it right. Lows, your child has done everything wrong. Your child is we behind a tree in the playground.
SPEAKER_00Highs, you've remembered to say sorry and have the faith-related conversation at swimming lessons. Lows, lows, you've told them all that they're an embarrassing idiot.
SPEAKER_04You just screamed at your children and you're the loudest, ugliest parent in this car park. Like a yo-yo, up and down, up and down. Now, the first of all, to say whether you're a Christian or not a Christian, that's us. Our emotions, our feelings, our experiences, they go up and down. We live in a broken world where we do not know what tomorrow's going to do. The difference is for a Christian is we have an upward path towards Jesus. We're going up the stairs day by day by his spirit. It is a promise. We are becoming more like him. Now, some of us are thinking, no, no, no, I'm uglier today than I was yesterday. Ah, because as you go up the stairs, your yo-yo, if you imagine, it goes down the up. So there are moments when you're up the stairs with a yo-yo that the down, the low, is is lower than the yesterday. So it is possible that today your experience of being a Christian is worse than it was yesterday or the day before that. But you take the yo-yo up the stairs, and that's saying is year upon year, the highs are getting higher. Your knowledge of Jesus means that there are just moments of such beautiful clarity today that you could not have had two years ago. You know how good he is. You trust him more than you did two years ago, and you know that in the lowest of lows, he's still got you, and the highs are higher. You're now seeing, oh my goodness. I stood on this mountain three years ago and it was beautiful. I now stand on this mountain and I know God is good, and this is his creation, and I'm for him. This is an adventure of a lifetime, and I did not understand that as clearly as I do now. That now I'm not I am an optimist, but this is Bible optimism. But Christians can know we're going on the yo-yo up the stairs. Your lowest is still low, but you're on the way up.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Ed. So we can set this vision, yes, we can we can see further than just the immediate. Yes. Uh, and part of the reason we're doing that is because our parenting is not just about life being neat and tidier and more comfortable in the here and now. Uh so we've we've talked about stretching the perspective a bit a bit further to be thinking about where are we going as a family. I now want to do the how can I stretch the perspective even further? So, as a parent, as a Christian parent, not only do we have a longer goal about wanting our children to know and love the Lord and know more of him. Uh, what's our eternal goal, Ed, and how does that make a difference?
SPEAKER_04I mean, an eternal goal, I mean, I if you're not a Christian, this would just be a laughable question. Yeah. Like, and and if you're a Christian, it's okay to laugh too, which is look, my goal is to but make it into bed tonight. And there is just something. Can I just quickly tell you about a story about going for a run? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Will it help me? Yes, I promise it will.
SPEAKER_04Uh, where my parents in law live, they live by a disused railway track, except the sleepers are still there. Okay, and I go for a run on this track, and what I I don't do it very often because you have to watch your feet the whole time. If you fall between the sleepers, you turn over your end. On a sleeper, okay, and then the next one, and then the next one. So, in other words, you can't ever look up. You can only look down as you run, sleeper to sleeper to sleeper.
SPEAKER_00It sounds miserable. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Okay, good. Okay, now that is how life can often feel. You can't take your feet off the next step because it just feels so fragile and so temperamental. You're only looking at your own feet, you know, like what where is my child now? What's the next five minutes? What have I forgotten? What needs to get in the car? What have, you know, when's the next feed? When's the next where's the next breadstick coming from? Now, there are moments of parenting where that's gonna be the normal story. That run is the story I I think of not knowing you've got an eternal perspective. When I come off that railway track, I go through the town and then I head back to their house, and they live on top of a hill, and I can see their hill from the town. I look up the whole way back. It's uphill, so it's still sweaty, but I can see their house and I know where I'm going. Which do you think is more fun? Watching my feet taking tiny steps, trying not to roll my ankle, or seeing their house on the horizon and running for it, even though it's uphill.
SPEAKER_00Think it might be the seeing the home.
SPEAKER_04It's always that, Amy's. My eyes are up and I see where I'm going and my eyes are fixed on it. I've still got to run, I've still got to be sweaty, it's still hard work, but I know where I'm heading. Okay. If in the Christian life we can just look up and know we're not just about the next load of washing, we're not just about the next breadstick, the next feed, or will there be tears after school this evening? Yes. These things are all true.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04But eyes up, heading for glory.
SPEAKER_00So you know what the good thing is about the way that God has designed family life is that God's designed family life that there's children surrounded by parents that are surrounded by a church.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_00And the rhythm of life that God has set with your day of rest and the day of that we go and worship is that often the Monday to Friday feels like the plonking on the thing. Yeah. And Saturday is like probably pressures of different things that we have to get done. And Sunday is the moment that you're with other people that remind you that we are not on our own as we're trying to do something different, and we are resetting our focus to lift our eyes to who God is. And often, as a parent, you've come to church and you've wriggled everybody there, and perhaps all that happens is you hand out raisins and you pick people off at the floor, but there's always a moment. So if your expectation is I'm going to be able to engage in every part of the of of today, you might be disappointed. But there's already a moment where there's a song sung, uh, words read, uh, a prayer prayed that that just reminds you you're not on your own and we're about something bigger and we're about something better than have I made this week's sandwiches. So going to church is that collective moment of lifting your eyes to say we're all in something.
SPEAKER_04Take a deep breath.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. Now, Ed, I am now going to take you off into an adventure of the mailbag. So we have been out on the road. Um, so this parenting for eternity, how like having this long vision changes our everyday, is something that we've been talking about um at the different places that we've been to. Um, and there's some more dates coming up. Check out our website if there might be one new.
SPEAKER_04If you want to meet Amy real life, you can do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All red, in fact.
SPEAKER_04Much more disappointing.
SPEAKER_00So, um, okay, question quest what these come up a lot. Question one, we're so overscheduled. How do I prioritize church and family discipleship when school sports and clubs take up every single weekend?
SPEAKER_04Amy, can I tell you a story about you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Okay. You are the answer to this. So I think I am more likely to be this person who's asking the question. Non-stop go, sign up to every opportunity. It's a it's a form of gentle abuse if you don't agree to take your child to the club they want to be part of. Every child is in seven clubs, every child's going to eight parties. Yeah. You once told me that one of your children had been spotted as a talent for gymnastics. It's quite a lot. My poor, poor child. Okay. And I I heard that one of your children was spotted by a gymnastics club as a bright gymnast of the future. My eyes were on storks, and I was like, I was like already imagining the gold medal at the next Olympics. And I knew that child when they were five, and now look at them. And you said to me, What was your plan?
SPEAKER_00There's absolutely no way we're doing that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you said this to me. I was like, what? You said, No, never gonna do gymnastics, not taking them.
SPEAKER_00She was four, and what they were asking us to do was uh three sessions a week, so all of Saturday morning, and um like two other sessions in the week. And I just looked at like the sort of I mean, and like if it had been her total heart and passion and all she cared about, yeah, and she had been saying to me, But mommy, this is just the best thing in the world, yeah, the conversation might have looked different. She loves lots of things.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And like I was just looking at these Leotard clad girls like doing their leg lifts and just thinking, this just no, no, nothing about this feels good, or okay, or or like it's something that we want to do, and like the time commitment, yeah, we're about something else. Okay, she wants other things, we want time as a family, we want to be at church, we want to have adventures.
SPEAKER_04So you taught me something that day, Amy, which is we're the parent, we have to make decisions. If our children's lives are too busy, I'm really sorry to say this, but it's on you at some point. You say no to stuff and you blew my mind that day.
SPEAKER_03And Amy, but you're saying goodbye to a gold medal at the Olympics.
SPEAKER_00Well, maybe, maybe, but but like if this is a passion that God has given her and a gift that God has given her, if the door's already shut at four, what kind of world are we living in? Not one I want to be a part of.
SPEAKER_04I want to fast forward. How many years after that are we now? Uh ten. Ten. Do you regret that, Amy? Not one bit. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I'm also the controversy because she's like lots of different things. And she still does. And she still does. And there's other things that she has a go at, and then people say, Do you want to join the team? And she says, No, that's all right. And I think, you know, just because you've got space in your schedule for something, yeah, doesn't mean it's a yes. Just because you've got space in your schedule for something and it's good doesn't mean it's a yes. Yeah. So there are moments that as a family you want to prioritize. We're going to eat together, we're going to talk together about life because there's going to be because conversation as a family is more valuable than another activity.
SPEAKER_04Amy, what's the North Star? What is the place you're taking your your child to?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's I'm coming back to my, well, my adventures and my faith and my security. So if I'm going to fight that Wednesday night means we're spending time together as a family to love one another, because this is where our security finds is found. This is where we can unpack where what we're looking to, what's going on. This is where we can have. So you can't take my Wednesday nights away.
SPEAKER_04I feel like if we're in a stadium right now, I'd I'd want a standing ovation, Amy. Because I do think what you're saying is radical. And I I think it's absolutely terrific. You're saying you are not a slave to every opportunity. We we are taking our children to Jesus.
SPEAKER_00And my children are not missing out.
SPEAKER_04I I'm Amy.
SPEAKER_00I am giving them something eternally better.
SPEAKER_04You are giving them something better. You are taking them to the best possible place, and you are secure about that, and you're helping your children to know they're secure about that. I love it, Amy. I love it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, next question. Uh my child is starting a new school and is desperate to fit in. How do I help them keep that Christian distinctiveness when peer pressure feels so big?
SPEAKER_04Okay, peer pressure is massive. And I do think there are some children who are not affected by peer pressure. Good on them. Like we don't have to make them want to fit in. Most kids are desperate to fit in. So the starting point is welcome to life. As a parent, I suffer from peer pressure. I'm an apathetic dad. So I I I think there's just the first of all, it's okay. It's okay if you think peer pressure is coming around the corner. Of course it is. Uh I I think the question then is you you can't switch it off, you can't just fix it. If your child comes back from school crying on a Wednesday, I don't think barring a miracle from the Lord, they're gonna go into school smiling on a Wednesday. On a Thursday. So um it it it's gonna be a lifetime's work. And I'm delighted to say the Lord is still doing it in my heart. Day by day, he is still helping me to say, you do not have to fit in, you do not have to do what everyone expects you to do, you do not have to be popular. Did you see Jesus? Run to him. Now I make it sound simple, but that is a thousand conversations with your child. It is a thousand. It's about the trainers and it's about the backpack and it's about the math result, and it's about which friend are they choosing to go to the party and who's getting invited to their party. It's a it's it's so many conversations.
SPEAKER_00Oh, there's a reason why God has given us children for a long time. Because there's a lot to get through. And there's like, if you imagine, they're all like training sessions, aren't they? How do you cope with this and how do you cope with this? And like it's you know, it's for all of us uh that we've got a lot, we've got a long time together to talk about this stuff, to work out where we got it wrong, how to get it better next time, to pray, to trust. Okay, I've got um final question. Now, this one comes up all the time. I remember also being asked for uh please could you help us do Bible times that are more related to food? We were at I remember that and I was like, What great. And after about like sort of you know, suggestion number three of how to make pudding about Jesus, you were like, Amy, please stop talking.
SPEAKER_04If you ask Amy, please can you give us 10 Bible studies to do based on food? You'll come up with 10 ideas. Whereas I'm saying, no, Amy, please don't.
SPEAKER_01So the Scotch Ed surrounded by everything this is a picture of God has put families together and surrounded them with church. And in the middle, no, okay.
SPEAKER_00So, question three. Um, family Bible times. Yes. My kids argue, yes, my kids roll their eyes and complain. Yes. How do we keep going with them? Um, and the other thing we get asked a lot is like I have a three-year-old and a ten-year-old, and I'm trying to do something with them together, and it's not going very well.
SPEAKER_04Those are two very different questions. I think the first question is easy, the second question is hard. So I'll do the first one, you do the second one. Okay. The first question is how do we keep going with praying, opening the Bible with our kids if they just keep rolling their eyes?
SPEAKER_00And also coping if we did it for a bit and we stopped doing and we're gonna start again.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I just I'm gonna say the unpopular thing, which is if our children kept rolling their eyes every time we brushed their teeth, we would not say, Okay, dear, we'll stop brushing your teeth. If our children rolled their eyes every time we tried to put their pants on, we wouldn't say, It's okay, dear, you never need to wear pants again. So, eye rolling is not the main way we decide how to be a parent. Okay, we don't just do the things that our children enjoy or don't roll their eyes.
SPEAKER_00Are you telling us to be the parent again?
SPEAKER_04I'm telling you to be the parent. I'm telling you, on the day they bury me, I would love my kids to stand in front of a small audience of people who have loved me and to say, Oh my goodness, my dad just went on and on about Jesus. And and I I'm okay if they even roll their eyes then and there.
SPEAKER_01Thank goodness he stopped talking about Jesus.
SPEAKER_04Finally, it's all I've got. I've got nothing else to give my kids. And if my kids have a sort of sick sense of it's probably time to open a Bible, because that's what dad used to do when we were crying. Hallelujah. Okay. I'm happy to be very boring, very predictable, and to make my kid roll their eyes. I don't want to make them hate it. I don't want to make my Bible Times awful for fun. But I can't imagine anything better. Can I quickly tell you the story of the kid who grew up in a home who had Bible Times every evening?
SPEAKER_01You don't have to talk fast enough. No, I tell the story so often.
SPEAKER_04My friend Nick, he had a faithful dad, far better man than me. His dad would open the Bible with his family every evening, and I'm like sat with Nick going, Nick no, Nick's now like mid-twenties, and I'm saying, Nick, this is absolutely incredible.
SPEAKER_00So I like I already want to know, even on birthdays? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Even on like was he surely he was ill sometimes.
SPEAKER_04And what notes did he use? And how long did they last? And I was like that with Nick. Nick, and tell me, what did you learn?
SPEAKER_00And if he had a migraine in the morning, like would you really then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And what and what yeah, and and how did you get to work on time? I was asking all these questions and asking. Like Nick, what what and how? And and what do you remember? And what was his magic? And how did he do it? And I'm gonna write a book about him. He's just long pause, Ed. I don't remember a single one of our family Bible times. I was like, Nick, that can't be right. He said, Okay, I remember two.
SPEAKER_00The one where he fell over and accidentally swore.
SPEAKER_04That's it. He remembers the time his dad's chair broke underneath him.
SPEAKER_01I was a guest.
SPEAKER_04And his dad was all over the floor.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04And he remembers the time his dad mispronounced a word in the Bible and it came out as a swear word.
SPEAKER_01There you go. I was right on both sides.
SPEAKER_04You were? Those are the only two family Bible times Nick remembers. So what do we take from that, Amy? We don't bother doing Bible times, our kids won't remember them.
SPEAKER_00No, because if I ask you, Ed, uh, what did you have for dinner when you were seven?
SPEAKER_04Boom, Amy. I've got no idea. You've got no idea. But do I need that meal?
SPEAKER_00Every single one of them.
SPEAKER_04I'm getting overexcited. Okay, much harder question, Amy. Okay. You've got a sweet, chubby two and a half year old who is if you leave them unattended at the kitchen table, they just throw carrots at you, and you've got a ten-year-old. How on earth are you going to do a family Bible time for them?
SPEAKER_00Well, the first thing I want to say to the to the parent that is trying to do a family Bible time with the two of them, you are next level. Yeah. You are like special forces. Yeah, special ops style commando rolling off a aircraft carrier.
SPEAKER_04It's very difficult.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like well done that you're doing it.
SPEAKER_04Well done, you want to do it.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. And yeah, I just kind of want to say that really. But equally, uh, I also want to lift a burden because I want to say, uh, maybe, maybe this is if it's go if you're really struggling, perhaps it is time to think about oh, how could we do this differently so it works well for everyone? So perhaps um you you invite your 10-year-old to lead some sort of interactive Bible moment with their their younger sibling, uh, and perhaps you then say to your older child, oh, we could pray together in the morning before you go to school and just read a couple of verses. Perhaps it is time to divide and conquer. Um perhaps it is time to say, Oh, tell you what, here's the thing that we're doing, 10-year-old, could you lead it? Because then I can manage the carrot throwing. So you're now in charge. Or is it time for you to say, why don't you start to do your own parable notes? And you could talk to let's talk to me. Like, what did you find? Like, let's maybe you could what can I learn from what you're learning? You come and tell me, because I'm I'm managing carrot kid over here. So could you can you read a few verses and encourage me? So just you know, there's different ways we can just say how let's be a team, let's be a team.
SPEAKER_03Let's be a team and please don't call your child carrot kid.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but also that makes your 10-year-old laugh. But like, listen, I'm managing carrot kid, you read the Bible.
SPEAKER_04Great. You I mean, well done. Any thanks.
SPEAKER_00Okay, Ed, we're coming into land, we've had a lovely time. Um, I want you to help us. Uh how are we gonna pick up the pieces and start again? If we if we put like fridge, fridge magnets in, we we made our three goals, and um it's it's Tuesday.
SPEAKER_04And okay, the glorious news that I want to know everyone's take for this episode is we did we live by grace. Okay, so it's tempting after sort of you know, Amy and I sort of doing the the high fives, fist pumps. We go again, we're gonna win. You're gonna make your children do a bunch of things.
SPEAKER_00You've made me believe it, and I've put the fridge magnets on with my inspirational words, right? And now it's Tuesday and have awful knot, and I want to throw them in the bin and go, it's all a lie.
SPEAKER_04Yes, it is a lie. We live by grace. Tuesday's gonna go really badly. If Monday's gone well, Wednesday's gonna go badly. This is this is why Jesus is the answer. You and I are not gonna get this just by hard work and drop your shoulder and charge at this new term. So while you can have some new year resolutions, you can try to go again, you can get over past failure, you can look up the stairs and think I'm gonna take my yo-yo up there. And if you missed the beginning of the episode, this makes no sense. You can say all of these things that are true, but the yo-yo is going up the stairs by grace. Yeah, it is not because you are taking it. The spirit is at work, spirit is at work, it's not you just determined to get better each day. The spirit is at work. Jesus Christ died because you cannot keep going and do this on your own. He did this for you. The good news of Jesus Christ is this term is probably gonna go really badly.
SPEAKER_00At moments, not all the time.
SPEAKER_04No, probably not. But personally, I have had to leave my house and walk around the park. Probably check my wife is gonna stay inside because I'm so cross and I'm so angry. Just take me to a corner of a field and let me just sit on the bench and feel utter despair.
SPEAKER_00Now, Ed, we learnt something, we learnt something statistically about the way um the sort of dads and mums commonly respond. Yes. So there is a statistical thing about dads tend to get angry and mums tend to feel guilty. We're gonna save that for another episode.
SPEAKER_04Another episode.
SPEAKER_00That's our next episode.
SPEAKER_04When it goes wrong, I tend to anger.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's why actually me being grace is a good place to go.
SPEAKER_00And when we feel guilty that we haven't met our own standards, we need grace.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Amy.
SPEAKER_00Grace for mums, grace for guilty mums, and grace for angry dads.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Amy. Um these podcasts always help me the most. It's extraordinary other people want to listen to them.
SPEAKER_00Isn't that good? Isn't that good? And if you're setting a good direction for your family, and if you're having that eternal goal in perspective and you're thinking, how are we getting more Jesus in our every day? You know, we have we we live in a real world, we live in a broken world, and we have a real enemy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So the devil doesn't want that, he doesn't want that for your family.
SPEAKER_04No, he wants he wants anger and guilt.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we we can be realistic about that, but we can know that as a defeated enemy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we have Jesus Christ who is for us, his spirit is in us, we can go again tomorrow. Ed, uh, would you uh finish for us today and would you pray for our shiny new September plans? Would you pray that when our polo t-shirts get splopped on, we are ready to say, Jesus has us, we can go again.
SPEAKER_05Let's pray.
SPEAKER_041 John 3 verse 2 says But we know that when Christ appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. Our Father in heaven, thank you, thank you, thank you. There is a day coming when we will meet Jesus face to face and we shall be like him. There is enough to get out of bed in the morning for enough to go again for being like Jesus, Father. Keep saying to our children, you say Jesus one day you'll be like him. Keep trusting him. It will happen. Thank you, Father, that you are enough for us because we are not. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time when we're heading off for more angry dads, more guilt, guilty mums, but more good news. As we think, why does it have to be me? Why is it on me to do this parenting? Surely there's somebody better out there and more more specialist, and you let's let's ship in the professionals. Looking forward to that conversation, Ed.
SPEAKER_04Amy, I can't wait. I'm gonna benefit as much as I have today. So grateful for this podcast.
SPEAKER_01See you next time. Bye bye.
SPEAKER_04Bye bye. Bye bye.