Light Nights and Summer Holidays

Summer is coming... are you ready?
Six weeks can feel like a very long time when you're looking "down the barrel" of the summer holidays. Whether you are a "free form" family who thrives on adventure or a "routine" family who needs a plan to feel secure, this episode is for you.

Join Ed and Amy as they discuss:

• The "Field of Cows" Principle: Finding wonder and faith conversations in the mundane moments.
• Managing Expectations: Why it's okay that we take our "sin in the bag" with us on holiday.
• The Screen Struggle: Taking charge of technology so it doesn't run your holiday.

Remember: your children aren't getting in the way of your summer holiday—they are your summer holiday.

The Faith in Parents podcast is taking a break for the summer! We’ll be back with a brand-new episode on 26 August.  

Need something to fill the gap? Why not dive into our back catalogue?

Catch up on our mini-series: 

Summer in... #1 | Chile!

Summer in... #2| Yorkshire!

Or, if you're experiencing some post-World Cup blues, check out these two fantastic episodes about parenting as a champion and parenting a champion.

A Summer of Sport #1 | Olympics & Parenting with Debbie Flood

A Summer of Sport #2 | Parenting a Champion with Richard and Rosslyn Perkins

Happy listening, and see you in August! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Whatever we do, we do it for the glory of God. So, all the things that we're up to over this summer, the adventures that we go on, the things that we're doing, they're for the glory of God. That lifts up the value of the things that we're doing as families. As parents, there are moments when we want to ride the wave of our children's interest and we want to say, look, isn't this good? Isn't this what God is doing? But there are moments that we want to invite them in to what God is doing in our hearts. So what we're thinking about, how he's speaking to us, what amazes us, tell them. Invite them in.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Welcome to the Faith in Parents podcast. I'm Ed. I'm always here. I'm always with Amy. It's in a good way. If you're here, it's because you're interested in knowing what is the normal everyday life of the Christian parent trying to raise their children to know Jesus Christ. How do you bump along? How do you climb in the car? How do you go to bed? And how'd you get up with Jesus Christ as a soundtrack to your life?

unknown 1:01

Amy.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yes, hello, I'm here. I'm ready. I'm good to go, Ed. And today it's with this we're looking down the barrel of the summer holidays. And I want to tell parents it's going to be okay because the Lord has you. And six weeks can feel like a very long time. But there's going to be highs and lows and all kinds of wonderful things that are happening in all of this. So, Ed, we're talking about this partly because we're parents, but also you and I have uh let's let's do the maths. Uh 45 years kids' ministry experience, is that right? Between us?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

All the way. Something like that. We have lived and breathed, children in churches and children in the home, and we're still smiling and we still love it. And this podcast is just gonna keep on rolling.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And I am a parent to four children. So I did I have already done seven times four.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

None of us know, Amy, what you're calculating.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

28 per child.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Primary school summer holidays. I went, fun story, fun story. I went to the vets with my lovely dog. And um, I was talking to the vet nurse, and we were having a bit of a chat, and she has her first child, um, and she's just emerging from nursery school, and they start school in September. Wow. So she was walking me through having your dog neutered, and I was walking her through having your child start primary school. And there was a moment where she clung onto my arm and her fingernails, like properly, like actually digging in with a level of panic. She said to me, What am I going to do? What am I gonna do? Six weeks, and I'm used to nursery that was open the whole time. I believed the lie that when my child started school, it was all going to be better, and I was gonna save all this money because I wasn't paying for nursery school. And then I've looked at how many weeks they are off. What am I going to do?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

I think that is the supreme humour challenge of summer parenting. Is we're all holding out for the summer holiday because we get a holiday. Yeah, our children get a holiday. Yeah. Towards the end of the year, we are deliriously tired. A family cannot be relied upon even to get out of bed and go to school without some huge row.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

And people are storming around my kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Cannot wait for this to stop.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

So everyone is is is counting down sleeps till summer holiday when everyone's gonna get some sleep. We'll be civil to each other. And then you come back from your summer holiday and you're talking to other friends saying, Honestly, how long till school starts again?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

No, we're not gonna go into negative land.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I'm not feeling negative. No. I am counting down sleeps till summer holidays.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

And there is the moment that then, like, you get through the woo-hoo! And then by Thursday, you think, what we're gonna do? But it's okay. It's okay. It's just adjustment, and then we get into it, and then we have to adjust back again afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So, Amy, give me the best of summer holidays. When you lie awake at night dreaming, what do you picture?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I think I just want to already set up the scene that every family is different. So, as I describe a win for me, I don't want you to think that is what a win has to look like for you. So, we're a family who thrive on space and adventure, and we're not worried about routine. So, a dream for me is we're out at the beach all day. I have a lot of snacks, the cool bag is packed, there are sandwiches. We we have been known to be at the beach at like 10 o'clock in the morning and leave at like half seven, eight o'clock at night. We're there all day. We're digging, we're in the sea, we're paddleboarding, we're surfing, we're like down sand dunes, we've then had a we've taken the barbecue, we've got a jet boil, we've made cups of tea, we're you know, like we're there, we're camping out. Everyone else is going home at four o'clock. What's wrong with them? We're gonna go rock pooling now, there's crabs to catch, there's all kinds. All day. And then let's go and float. Float and look at the sky.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Amy, thank you. None of us know what a jet boil is, but we're gonna we're not even gonna discuss it.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Somebody does.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Somebody does.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Somebody out there is going, oh, I've got one of those.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Okay, Amy, and now tell us what the reality of a summer holiday is.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Oh, that can be the reality.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

It can be.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

It can be. There are days like that.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So when I close my eyes and imagine the summer holidays, that is what I see floating in sunshine.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

However, there are also days where that is what I imagine is going to happen, but the heavens are cloudy, the things are dark, everybody has fallen out, it's raining again, the rustle of a cagoul is happening, and we're all fighting, and this is not what I had in mind. And I've got to go to another indoor playpace and spend a fortune on an averagely warm cappuccino, and I hate the world, and everything's a bit sweaty and wet.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And you have a family disaster that I've never had and can't relate to, which is children shouting in the car, your wet coat has touched my leg. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Have you not had that?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

No, never.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

So two of my children, it's still the case now as teenagers, cannot sit next to one another in the car.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Cannot. They just cannot leave one another alone, or they just have to poke one another or annoy each other. It's all it has ever been thus.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Is this the same two children where one of them shouts, Mum, she's looking out of my window?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yes. Yes, yes, she's doing it again.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

She's looking out of my window.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

She's looking out, she's out of the window again! He's looking out of my window. So you own the window nearest your car seat. And if someone looks out of your window, this is not okay. So this is this has gone back, this is back to preschool days. There was a day where it got so much. I'm sure I've told you this before. Yeah. It got so much I couldn't cope with it anymore. We drove to preschool with blindfolds on because I couldn't cope anymore. I fixed the problem. Nobody can look out of the wrong window. We're all going with blindfolds on.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Sorry, I distracted you from anarchs on wet legs with the looking out of a window story. So what and the issue is you're not allowed to touch your wet anorak on someone's leg?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Well, I I don't think it is law. It's just preference.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So if you get in the car and you sit next to me, she so that's as reasonable as she's looking out of my window, yeah. Your wet coat has touched my leg. It's unpleasant. How very dare you.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Okay. And and as summer holidays are long, that that means when they go wrong, it feels like it's never-endingly going wrong. So that you say that, for instance, that story perhaps is a classic summer holiday story of you you reach new depths and ridiculous levels of irritation.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah. So I think there are different schools of family. So I think we're a family with I generally have an optimistic outlook and high expectations of today is a great adventure. Which is fine, but that means so expectation management is key, Ed. So that means that if I'm expecting great things to happen and bad things happen, I am cross. And we end in a big snarky mood and say things that we might regret. Whereas I think for other families who generally maybe don't thrive on a lack of routine and would like things to be structured and organised, they make plans and they are worried about the plans going to plan and they feel a sense of stress before they begin. And then perhaps they come home being surprised that, oh, that went better than I thought.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Okay. And we're going to keep returning to what we could call free form family and routine family.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

And both of them are good.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Both of them are joyful. Both of them have their own challenges.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

And we're going to try to tackle ways of walking through the summer with both. And I guess maybe there are even some marriages you have one of each.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Imagine.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah. Yes, imagine. Okay, so Amy, we're dropping burdens.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Uh we are not expecting crucially that all of our children become sinless on the last day of term. Or us. Or us. Uh we are not going away on holiday as angelic beings. Our children certainly aren't. So we are going to bring whatever the problems your family has before the end of term, they're probably going to still be the problems we have in the holiday. And that's why we have Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Because he goes on holiday with us too.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

As well. Yeah. So you famously said before, when we go on holiday, we take our sin with us.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

And those and that's part of the lie that we believe when we look at the, you know, the pictures, when we scroll the images and the TripAdvisor reviews, everything's going to be amazing. Even if we even if we're lucky enough to go on holiday, that the aspirational me that floats on a Lilo looking stunning with a big wide brim hat is going to have this together life. It's never been like me in the remote.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Why has no one told your children this?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yes. I do remember sitting by a swimming pool with my children, and there was a lady who was on a sun lounger that had one of those massive, really classy big wide-brimmed hats, like black and white, like matching swimming costumes, everything. And she was sitting like flicking a magazine. She just looked classy, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So there's no punchline to this story. No, there is. The whole story is you once saw a woman who looked classy. No, okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

No, so I remember saying to my children, oh, that's what I wish I looked like on holiday. Okay. And my child, who was in, you know, frog swimming shorts with wonky goggles on, said, Why would you want to be like her? She's not doing anything. She's not diving in to get the sinkies or anything. I thought, oh, it's true. She's not.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

I really want this story to finish with. And so my child went over and said, Would you like to dive down for our sinkies?

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah, no, no, that was then I'm diving down for the sinkies with them. And that just made me remember my children, what my children view as a win of the day versus, you know, appear, I want to look classy. My kids are not going to. My mum used to look really classy next to swimming pools. It's not going to be anything that children say in the future. My mum used to go snot out because if she was diving for the sinkies with me, much more memorable.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

I can't believe you've given us that image.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Keep it real, Ed. There will be no classy wideboard and house, or there might be stops.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

No, don't do it again. We got through it once, and I don't think anyone noticed.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Right, Amy. Uh we're going to talk about the Field of Cows principle. Okay. Okay, and this I know what you mean. This happens more than no one else does. I know. I'm going to explain it. We're not moving straight on. This is what summer holidays are for. Amy, tell us the field of cows principle.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Oh, well, um, a very good friend of ours uh was reflecting on her holiday with her um preschool child and her older school age child as well, and was just saying there was a moment that they went on a walk as a family and um their little boy spotted a cow. Now, they live in the city, so we don't get to see cows very often, and the cow was quite close to the fence, and he was just amazed at the cow. Look at it, look at it, look at it. It's so big, its head is so big, it's eating the grass. Look at it. Now, normally we are going places and we're doing things, and there's not as much time to sit and go, You're right. Wow, look at it, look at it. In fact, yes, let's sit and look at the cow. The summer holidays.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Look at the sort of flabby, fatty, furry bit under their neck. That's my favourite bit part of a cow. So when you look at a cow, you're right. And and I I cannot get enough of the beauty of cows. Summer holidays, Amy, is a chance to to stop and look and be amazed by the beauty of a cow.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Or any number of things. As I've said before on our podcast, collecting shells on a beach is a such an amazing thing to do, and then you get to look out, look at all the different kinds of shells.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

God could have just made one shell.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

He made all of these.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

So summer is an opportunity for joy, for wonder, and for conversation. So strangely, I have a field of cows story too. Great. And it is the page of my book, Raising Confident Kids, that people consistently tell me is the funniest page of the book, which is when we drove past a field of cows and we saw a bull doing what only a bull can do in a whole field of cows, which we all know means female cows. And so that was my family's first sex conversation was what's the what's the bull doing? And then I explain he does it with the whole field, because you only need one bull for a whole field.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Which was a great entry level to relationships and intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Exactly. And then you jump seamlessly into the sexual Christian ethic. Okay. And exactly and clearly the reason why it's memorable is not because it like it happened, it's just how frightening it was. Because my brain is clearly one step ahead, and I'm desperately thinking I have to turn this into a meaningful Christian conversation when I've just explained that one bull can sort it out with every single cow in a field, and my children are just asking endless biological questions about bulls and cows, and I'm still thinking, how am I am I ever going to bring this round? And the answer is you don't need to, because you're on a holiday and you're having conversations you would never normally have, and it's an opportunity. There is an opportunity out there. So Amy, what's the top tip there? What is it we're gonna what is it we're gonna try and keep remembering on holiday?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Well, I'm going to controversially say a little word in dad's ears.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Because we had we had a lovely chat with a couple of dads um on a previous podcast. Yeah. And um the the the light that came into their eyes and the burden that was lifted when I reminded them that you don't have just one opportunity to talk to your kids about these things. So I think dads feel this burden even more. Your child asks you a question, you have to be ready for every single question. Yes, and you have to get the answer right first go.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

And your and your answers actually become longer and longer and longer.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

The more you panic.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Because you're thinking, This is the last time I'll ever get to talk about sex.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And like, I'm gonna be I'm gonna possibly get myself in trouble here, but mums are more used to defer the issue and uh get asked a lot of things and just say general holder, place holders. We'll come back to that one. Let me have a think about it. I'm not really sure right now. Let me think and get back to you. But so that conversation about the cows, guys. I realise I'm not explaining this very well. Instead of you listening to me for 40 minutes, I'm gonna think about how to explain it really well. Um, let's put a pin in it. These are all things that are fine to say. Or imagine two weeks later, guys, you know we had that conversation, the car don't even remember very well. I think I've got a better answer now. Like you live with them, you can say it again later. But Ed, we were talking about how to make the opportunity. So meanwhile, back in the conversation about the cows, what is the principle that we're looking for?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

We are looking for The principle you're looking for is your children are not getting in the way of your summer holiday.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Your children are your summer holiday.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

And a day is coming when they won't be there and you'll wonder how on earth you ever how you're ever going to manage without them, and what on earth is a holiday without children?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

But what we're not gonna believe the lie that we're looking for me time. The actual me time is is is worked out in a relationship with your kids. This is the best of me.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah, it is. And look, it means you are more grateful when you have a surprising moment. Either when your children have gone to sleep or there is just that moment of peace and you read four pages of your book. But take the moment to thank God for four pages of the book rather than be very angry with the child who comes back and stops you getting to know number five.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I think some of the most significant conversations I have had as a mum with my kids have happened on some holidays because there's an element of you're out of routine and you've all got a bit more time, and there are less distractions, and you've got time to be a bit more curious so you can ask the follow-up question like why do you think that? Or what makes you say that, or all those things. I had my famous, which features in your raising confident kids book, the famous conversation about the wetsuit happened.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

There are so many. If you if you want to read through raising confident kids, every time I mention I know a woman who it's always Amy.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Various names. It wasn't always me. There are some you do have other friends.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

There are some others too, but it it but funny things happen to you. And you have fun, you have great conversations, Amy. Uh just tell us about the wetsuit conversation. It's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Okay. Um, that was on the beach with my son, and my son said to me, Um, I wish I looked like you in a wetsuit. And I said, So he is slim and athletic, and I came out of the drawer labelled robust. And I'm okay with this. This is the way God has made me. But when he said, I wish I looked like you in a wetsuit, I thought, cheeky rat. So I was ready to, you know, take his feet out and hold him down under the waves. And he looked at me startled at my response. And I was like, It's like, what do you mean? So there's just on holiday, there's that moment to go, oh, I've assumed that you're like being cheeky. So I was like, what do you mean? So he's like, I wish I looked like you in a wetsuit because you're really strong and nothing could push you over, and I feel really weak. And as a boy in school, I think I'm too thin and I'm too weak. It's like, what wow? Thank goodness we've had this conversation. This is great.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

He seemed to be calling you an immovable object that even the sea can't shift. I wasn't wrong. We're taking it at the value that he meant it. Okay. Right, Amy, we have we have touched on the story of our families are all different, and I I think we could even say our holidays look more different. You know, in school, all of our children are in their school uniforms, and we troop them in and we troop them out. So one person's life looks pretty similar to another. We're defined by we just get through Monday to Friday and the weekend arrives, but on holiday, probably the full difference between your families is made most clear. And we see some of our families, for instance, sit and read books in the shade.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

While other families can't sit still at all and are roaring around, disturbing all of those quiets.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Well the families are going places or the families are staying at home. Um that that is significant. Families look different being on holiday. By being on holiday, we mean being on holiday from your normal responsibilities of work and school.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Okay, Amy. So we're just gonna deal with two quick topics uh or two ways of doing Sundays on holiday. Oh, okay. Both of these make me laugh.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

If we finish with making the most of cows and beaches, we're gonna lean into the work.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

The answer is no.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

I just want to just I wasn't sure that we've championed that enough.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Eat jelly in the bath, get outside, have fun.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Okay. We'll get back to that possibly.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Uh being Christians on holiday. What does it look like to be different and be a Christian on holiday?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Do you go to church? Do you go to campsite? Do you do you make Sundays different?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Okay, I'll do one version. Okay. And you do the other. Okay. Okay, so one version is you go to a local church on holiday. And I think there needs to be a briefing as there always is in the car. I'm a big one for briefings. It's all about expectation management. Let's get ready for what's about to happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

So that it's let's tell you what a win looks like.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Exactly. So we're going to explain. They may not have a Sunday school. They may not even have children.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

We are we might be in the service. We might have decided we are joining groups or we're not joining groups.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah. But we've talked through this is going to Don't worry, I have snacks and a notebook. We can play hangman at the back if it's all goes to parts.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Okay. Uh I have one child who takes that notebook and scores every aspect of the church service in a form of entertainment. And so we cover walls, we cover temperature. Okay, we cover wall hangings. We cover PA quality. We even cover I cannot tell you. Uh warmth of welcome from the front, interest of talk, ability of reader to read Bible coherently. We cover everything. He scores everything. And while I have said we don't need to be quite so judgmental, it does mean he is watching and listening very carefully. So I'm okay with it now. And he he shows me his scoring system. Mystery church visitor. So it's one approach. It means our children get to see. It might mean our children are more thankful the church they come from because they realise, if nothing else, everyone knows them. And everyone knows how to care for them well and how to have great conversations with them. It means we appreciate other people's style of worship, other people's situation, and the joy of meeting brothers and sisters in Christ. That's the big one for me. Is the number of faithful, joyful, brilliant saints you meet in other churches who are just so patient and they're so kind. And it is the kindness of strands.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

And they give you top tips of what beaches to go to and what other things. I have to say, visiting local churches have been a has been a total highlight on a lot of our family holidays. Meeting faithful older deers who have just been so delighted that our kids are here, giving them fivers, told them where to go, got to visit this place, get chips from here. It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I went into a church recently in Cornwall and discovered I was the fifth generation of my family to be there. Just the quirk of this used to be where my family went on holiday in the war, and we worked out we were up to five or six generations who had sat in this church, and I clearly I found this astounding and my children were less interested. But it did make me sit in this building and just think generation upon generation upon generation.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

And Ed, at a Faith in Parents, um one of our roadshow events touring the country, coming to a city near you soon. Yes, um, I met a couple who had been at a the a church that I'd visited on a Hebridean island, and they'd since moved to Glasgow and walked in to one of our parenting evenings, and it was like, hello, remember me from your holidays.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Did they walk back out again or stay?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

They didn't. They didn't oh they were lovely. I was delighted to see them. It was a lovely reunion.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Now, Amy, you have an alternative approach to how you can celebrate a Sunday on holiday.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yes. So perhaps, perhaps the thought of going somewhere new and unknown makes you break out in hives, or maybe you're somewhere where there's a language barrier and like you're not going to be able to visit. Maybe you're going to do your own DIY family church service. So I can tell you, as a child myself, uh camping in France, we did DIY family church. So it being this me and my family, and we have repeated this as my as mum with my own kids, you then make a plan. So you could not go as all out as we did, but we did like who's doing who's doing the talk, who's doing the music, who's doing the kids' talk, who's doing the notices, like how are you gonna dress up? So at a campsite in France, we've then had in our tent our welcome to the family church. Today we will be hearing from, and like you can you act it all out full drama. When I've then done this with my own kids, we also dressed up. So I'm Alison on the piano today. And one of my children played the keyboard, and we had the kids talk, and one of the kids did the kids talk, like told us a Bible story with their fluffy animals, and then like dad did a thought for the day at the end. Read the Bible, there we go. You're looking at me.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I think the conclusion is this really was church because it does sound like let's imagine we're going to the zoo, like who's gonna be a giraffe, who's gonna be a gorilla, who's gonna be the zoo keeper. But but so it's it's not pretending to be church, it is church.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

So I'm I'm going to be a little bit careful here, Ed, because theologically it's not church.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Okay, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

So there is an element of church being the gathered people of God. Thanks, Amy. So you can't just say that my family having a Bible time together is church in the fullest sense.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

That wasn't my main concern.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

But my what I'm saying is we're taking a moment to do something different that reminds us like God's word matters, what we believe matters, we're making space to talk and have a faith conversation as a family.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Okay. And and we're trying to And we're a bit mad. We're a bit mad, but I I do want to take from it, Amy. We we as our family each have a culture. Yeah. Each of our families has a culture. There's no such thing as a cultureless family. Your family is your family and it is unique. And so, for instance, in my family, we are not big singers. So we could not do a song in a tent. We would all find that unbelievably awkward. But if you put us in a car and we play one of our favourite worship tunes, at least half the fan will sing at the top of their voices and the others will be fine with it.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. So the singing is to a s to a you know streamed device and we're miming.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

We none of us can play the musical instruments well enough to actually the findings.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

But your family would sing in a tent together.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

To a backing track with wigs on, pretending.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Okay, wow. Okay, with or without wigs, we probably wouldn't, but we would in a car. So on a s uh our DIY Sunday service probably involves us getting a Bible out, sitting at the table, and it is a Bible title where we finish by praying, but I'm probably a bit more stern at the beginning and saying, it is Sunday, the Lord is risen, we're doing this.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Okay. Whereas I'm a bit more crazy at the beginning and we're all going to have fun. Um and then at the end I try and pull it back. And my husband says, Meanwhile, let's read some Bible. Now we've all got ourselves in a lather of sweat with an inflatable guitar.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

So, how, Amy, in that case, are we going to find out how our family does it?

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I think it is an intention to then say this is something that we want to make space for. And if we're not going to go and visit some some somewhere, what does it look like? So, what is your family like? What does your So it might look serious and academic. You might give somebody a Because we've got a family of readers.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah. We're good at listening. We can sit still.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah. It might look like what we're going to do is, you know, we've got too many, too many people in charge and not enough not enough followers. So we're going to actually find something that we're going to listen to together. Yeah. So we're going to download a talk from somewhere else, or we're going to tune in to our church and back home, and then we're going to sit and talk about it together. So you don't have to all wear w wigs.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Please stop talking about wigs, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

But you have got to work out what's it look like for you to be you.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Okay. And it but it and it could just be as simple as we're going to go on a Bible treasure hunt. I'm going to read four verses out and we're going to I'm going to give you each an objective find. We're going to come back and we're going to talk about this story and then pray to fit.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

So the age and stage that your children are at matters. The personalities that you all have, the gifts that God has given you matters. Thank you. So I would like to highlight my children now, all teenagers. We don't do that anymore. We don't do that now.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Okay, but now we want to know what it is. So very quickly, what is it now?

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Well, we love going to visit local churches.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Because we actually like people.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Okay. Right. We're now going to think about these two kinds of families. We're going to start with the routine family. We love structure. We love each day being similar. Holiday is is is is harder because we are without that structure. We're at the safe, we're outside of the safety blanket of tomorrow's going to look like today. So, Amy, can you tell us how is this family going to do summer?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Well, I think a lot of research out there suggests that if your children struggle, um, particularly to feel secure, uh, if your children struggle more with um challenges, um, with anxiety uh and general feelings of security, uh, there can be a lot of things about a children's background or perhaps how your family was put together. Routine equals security, routine equals safety. So permission granted to follow routines. So bedtimes matter, um, structure matters, uh, explaining what's going to happen and when. Uh so if you're gonna go away somewhere, where are we going? Have you been before? Uh, can you show some pictures? Can we prepare? Uh so a lot of the time as as parents, we make the plan and uh we sometimes forget to communicate that to our kids. Uh, I think for the parent who knows that their kids really thrive on routine, that's less the case. But the more you can plan stuff out, the more you can show things that are happening, the more you can have set things in a week that, you know, on Tuesdays we're gonna go go here, on Wednesdays we're gonna eat pasta, on Thursdays we go to the park, on Fridays we feed ducks. You know, there's the safety, islands of safety that your children swim through this sort of world of confusion because all my routine is gone. So there's and Sunday can often be that. We've got these moments, we've got a week and then this and this is happening. So you can set islands of safety that you're swimming to. Wednesdays we go swimming, Thursdays we see granny, Sundays we go to church, um, which can just really help everybody.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Now, Amy, we I think we could reveal that your family and my family are not a routine-driven family.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

No.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

So could you just tell us a story about a family you know to give us a picture of what it might look like?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Uh so I'm thinking of a family with with young, younger children. Um, so when nap times and bed times uh start to slide, which they can easily do on holidays, um, within a couple of days, nothing is working anymore. No one is sleeping, everyone is stressed, and everyone is crying. Um, I'm thinking of another family, um, a part of our wider church family um who've recently adopted and uh hanging on into routine. So the thought of all of the things like Todd the Group happens on this day and uh cafe happens on this day, and we go to this place on this day, that feels like you've pulled the safety net out from under their feet. Uh so for those families, putting those things in for the for their for themselves and for their kids, these things are going to keep happening. So toddler group might not be happening on Thursdays anymore because we're having a break for the summer, but we're going to invite these friends around, or we're going to go to this play park, or we're going to see these things, or we're going to watch this TV programme, or we're going to eat this food, um, can be really, really helpful. And talking to the rest of your church family about that. So if you were to say to another church family, my kids really struggle with the lack of interaction and plans with others. Um so when Toddle Group isn't on, could we meet with you at the park? Could we meet together? Could you bring your kids around to play in the garden? So often, particularly in those younger years, a day with somebody else is just like a burden lifted. So even if the plan is is simple, we're gonna go to the park, we're gonna go on the swings, you can come back to ours and we'll we'll have pasta for tea. You've just got another person who's with you on this journey. Um, conversation, support, entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Okay. So perhaps for a routine family, it means more upfront planning at the beginning, it means more reaching out for help at the beginning. And it also means um continuing to try to work on the routine, but knowing sometimes there'll be less of a routine.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Yeah. Play-doh Tuesday might be all you need to do. Okay, Ed, you are a family that likes to um have wider boundaries.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Freeform.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

What are the challenges of that? What are the challenges of that for you and what happens when it goes wrong?

SPEAKER_01 35:28

So I think the challenge of of looking forward to no routine, of looking forward to each day blending into the next and making almost no plans is clearly the difficulty is is if you have no plans and no structure, it starts out being a great deal of sleeping and playing, but where you end up with is irritating each other. And it means each of your own ideas of what fun looks like starts to impinge on each other.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Do you have family meetings?

SPEAKER_01 36:02

We I we have family crisis meetings.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

We do, and I think it does mean you start to get to the point of we are gonna have to plan something tomorrow. Because while it might be totally relaxing for me to do nothing, it actually makes the family impossible to function. So I I do think it means that first of all, you do enjoy less of a routine initially.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Wow. I have to say, I'm uh like if we can't if we're not out the door by half past ten, the day's gone. The day is gone.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

We wouldn't need that. Uh and when I compare notes with some other family members, uh, I think what we think is success is not how many places have we ticked off, how many tours have we done, how many beaches have we been on. We would be more happy doing the same thing every single day.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Oh, yeah, we drive you crazy because we have like leisure kit, the the number of things that we require to entertain ourselves in a day.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

I I get sent photos of your family packing the car. Yeah. And I look at it and just think, how many families are going away on this grand adventure?

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

How many water-based devices does one family need?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Different options of footwear, because you might be up a mountain or you might be in wet wet shoes.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

We have a much more modest goal than that. So I do think it means you grab every opportunity, but probably the the challenge is uh selfishness is just around the corner because my idea of a perfect day is not my child's idea of a perfect day. So I have to keep remembering I'm probably not going to get the time I want to do exactly what I want to do, and how do I lean into that? And how do I have a good time? Uh but it does mean we're usually by water. Uh we're if we're by we've no I've noticed this, even my children, because this is the thing, isn't it? You discover your children become more like you. The things you like doing, and we recently had a holiday in a car, basically a road trip kind of holiday, and the children were saying, Where's the next river?

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Where's the next lake?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

And I I I realized, well, that's kind of how I think, and I need to be near water every day to swim it all off. And I discovered that's how God has now allowed my children to work it out too. But each family is going to work out what's the happy place, and can you find it in the holiday you've got and the budget you've got in front of you?

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Ed, I want to know. So the things that you've just said, they just generally sound like general wisdom for holidays. Yes. So I want to know what is the actual Christian distinctive? So in our last episode, you were full of the stats of the research. I would like there to now be the Bible. So come on, Ed. Bible me, just just like explain, justify your position biblically.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Great. Uh Deuteronomy six. At the beginning of Deuteronomy six, Moses gives his people a vision for life in the promised land. And it's also the verse that Jesus says is the most important commandment. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And he goes on, these promises that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Well, the upside of a holiday is you take your soul, strength, mind, and soul with you on holiday, and you certainly take your heart with you. So we are most defined, not by whether we go to church on a Sunday, but are we loving the law with all that we are? So a holiday is a great opportunity for that. And he goes on. Talk about these things when you walk along the road, when you get up, and when you go to bed. Again, this is what we do on holiday. We get up together, we go to bed together, and we walk along the road together. So in fact, Deuteronomy 6, this is these are holiday verses. If you take away your local church, if you take away your routine, if you take away the normal slots in the day where you might be able to have the Christian conversation as you walk to school, for instance, it does mean you're looking out all the time for how am I going to show my children we love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength this holiday. I know some families who put together a sort of book of Bible studies for their holiday, and you can buy these sorts of things. There are many people who support.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

John Hinley has written one, Refreshed, particularly designed for families on holiday. Um, our wonderful friend Lucy Rycroft has also written some devotions that you can download. So you don't even have to buy a book and wait for it to be delivered. You can click and download it on football themed on the World Cup. So you can lean into any of these things. Perhaps summer is a time to try something you've never tried before or read even. Summer can often mean driving in a car to different destinations, which might mean you have an opportunity all together to listen to a Faith in Families podcast and have maybe even your very first faith-based conversation as a family as you and Jam walk alongside us and make it possible.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

It's good of you saying not just jam and you wobble on and don't stop talking. Each of these family Faith in Families. Thanks, Amy. Each of these Faith in Families podcasts is just 20 minutes of goodness. It's just three or four verses. And the hope of that is that the parent gets to open the Bible with their children even if they don't know what to do. And families tell us that summer holidays is a time more than any other when they reach for our podcasts. Uh, and this year we've done some in Mark, some in James, and some in the Psalms, Looking to God, Mental Wellbeing in the Psalms. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

There's a massive bad back catalogue. Ed, don't just tell us the facts. You've got to tell us the heartwarming story.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

So um our foundations, a lot of our communications that have gone out about asking for support to fund our podcast streams, have got these brilliant true stories that people have written in and told us about their kids.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

And I think, Amy, you get this too. A highlight is meeting people who blow your mind and meeting little children. Uh I I believe I am a sort of pocket celebrity for eight to eleven-year-old Christians.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

Who wants to talk to you about Z donks and fun facts.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Exactly. So children love to tell me that they love jams, fun facts. Uh they love to tell me who their favourite characters are from the sketches. That could be Jessica Seeker's podcast, Seeking Jesus. Okay. She's made up.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Or there could be Action Tim. He makes an appearance.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

He's popular.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

So everyone has a favourite part of the podcast. But one church leader came up to recently and said, Ed, you're discipling my kids.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

And uh I got to ask him what he meant, and he clearly said, Look, every time we get into a car, uh we put on a podcast, and he's happy. He's happy because he sees his kids laughing and talking, and we always throw the questions into the family because clearly Jam and I are not the heroes. How do we get mum and dad to be the heroes? By asking the good questions, getting great answers, and just smiling and saying, Well done, we have done it. As you drive along for 20 minutes, you get to say out loud at the end, we have just done it. Well done, kids. There won't be a moment of today that is better than hearing you pray. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

I want to tell the story because uh it's Faith and Families is not me, so I can I can tell it with just like the the whoop for the Faith in Kids team. Um, the boy that emailed in and told us that he'd listened to the podcast and it had given him confidence in his faith. So that when he did a presentation at school, so his parents were amazed that he did a presentation for school on like somebody from history who'd inspired you or a hero, and he did his presentation on Jesus, and his parents said there is no way he would have had the confidence. To do that, had he not have been listening to the Faith in Families podcast. That's a win, Ed.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

It's just a total win. And I I this episode, if there's anything in it, it must be how do we go back to school with a memory, with an encouragement, with a conversation where we see how Jesus has gone on holiday with us. I had a moment uh on a recent holiday. Our family Bible times are always ill-tempered, and they don't happen as often in holiday, and they don't happen that often in term time. But we were struggling through, we were trying to do our best, and we we on holiday arranged. It happens every now and then that we visited another friend on holiday. We were near enough each other. So we had one night together, and the two dads we said, look, let's attempt a Bible time, and we agreed which one of us would open which book and whatever. And it it was honestly the most mundane, the most ordinary. My children were a bit less rude and a bit less angsty than they normally are, but at the end, it was totally the highlight.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

For you or for everyone?

SPEAKER_01 45:08

I'm gonna say for me, certainly, but I do think what we all what both families noticed is all the kids spoke. All the kids said something.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

And hearing the other family pray, hearing the other family just say a simple answer, it meant the world. It reminded us as we drove away. Yeah, it's normal, it's good, it's beautiful. And you we saw it more clearly because another family has sat around the table doing this, and no one said, Why are we doing this?

SPEAKER_00 45:40

This is weird. And that that even if they were thinking it, they didn't say it out loud on this occasion.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

All of that true. All of that's true. Amy, have you got a verse for us that reminds us? Uh on in summer, give us a verse to keep remembering.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

Okay, I'm gonna give you two. So I want to tell you that um there's the amazing verse in Corinthians. I'm rubbish with numbers, Ed, so you're gonna tell me Corinthians 131, 531.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

1 Corinthians 10.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

1031. I knew there was ones and threes and ones in there somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Stop saying it. I'll say it once more and then don't say more numbers. 1 Corinthians 10, 31.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

So that is, I I like to think of it as there's a there's a song by a a a lesser-known Australian singer, Johnny Burns.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I I hope there are Australians listening to this shouting he is not lesser known.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Whether we eat, whether we drink, whether I sleep, whether I sink, whether I swim, whatever we are doing, this is not the Corinthians version. Whatever we do, this is the Corinthians version, we do it for the glory of God. So all the things that we're up to over this summer, the adventures that we go on, the things that we're doing, they're for the glory of God. Um, so that changes, that lifts up the value of the things that we're doing as families. I also want to say there was possibly one of my favourite family Bible conversations. Um, we were sitting uh by the sea on a beach, there was a lighthouse not far away, Ed, you know, my love of lighthouses, and it was just amazing. Look at this, this is such a beautiful place. This is so good. I want to read a psalm because if in this sort of majestic surroundings, just look around us. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in time of trouble. There's these big rocks and this big lighthouse, and like reading that, so just leaning into that. I'm being a bit weird, but I'm gonna get my Bible open and you're all gonna sit and I'm gonna read this thing because it's this is what it's making me think of. So I think as parents, there are moments when we want to ride the wave of our children's interest and we want to say, look, isn't this good? Isn't this what God is doing? But there are moments that we want to invite them in to what God is doing in our hearts. So what we're thinking about, how he's speaking to us, what amazes us, tell them, invite them in, be a bit weird, own it, read the Bible out loud and say, look at this, look at this view. Just makes me think of this.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Absolutely great, Amy. We're coming into land. We've understood that our summer will disappoint because we take our sin and um in the bag with us. That we can make some plans, we can be realistic in our expectations, we can look for every opportunity to work out where is there a God moment. We can also just take little time. When the questions come, we don't have to be snippy, we don't have to move on, and we don't have to drive away. We could just sit in the moment. Uh before we leave, Amy, we're just gonna touch in on a couple of issues. Firstly, uh, you're going to tell us about how do we cope when our children are shouting at each other on holiday?

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Oh, the sibling tension. The sibling tension. So I I want to just say that there's both sides, as always, there's both sides to the story. So, as the family with four kids who have then been together for a long time and are then annoying one another, we were once on holiday next to a family that had just one child. And there was like a little fence between our chalets. And the mornings that this child was just looking through the fence in amazement at the glory of the other side of the fence of these pi these pa these people to play with at all times. Like someone, and he was playing swing ball on his own, and it was like, oh, imagine the wonder of having three siblings. So obviously, him sort of being absorbed into our games didn't really, we didn't really notice the difference. But for him, there was this whole world of wonder. Whereas obviously for my children, there's this whole oh, you know, it's so annoying and they're still here and they're bickering. So I think there's a you want to try and sort of say Isn't it a blessing for the Lord?

SPEAKER_01 50:00

You have each other.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Yeah. Um isn't this an opportunity to invite others in so that you're not just fed up with the same old? Um, and there is those moments that we just have to manage. Uh you are learning things within a sibling group that are gonna stand you in good stead for the rest of your life. You know, dealing with the tricky person, dealing with the overtired person, dealing with the obnoxious person, the irritating person. These are all skills that you are gonna need in life, in work, in church, and God is giving you them now. So we can lean in. This isn't learning stuff, it's hard. Learning to love one another is hard. This is an opportunity that God has given. Um, and as somebody who grew up with siblings too, uh, and there was a lot of that, uh, one of the techniques that Mother Mary has used. This is my mum, I will clarify, um, on me as a child was me and my sister when we'd fallen out. We had to sit in the kitchen facing one another um on stools when we'd arrived with the and she did, and this is well on your version of events. She put the cooker timer on. Two minutes, no one had to say anything. We just had to look at each other. And then after two minutes, it's like we were always giggling, basically, by that point, and it was it was over. Two minutes of silence generally fixes most problems.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

Two minutes of silence. That's the perfect place to end. Uh, in the show notes, uh, you will find some of those resources we have mentioned, some of those links, uh, and particularly the Faith in Families podcast will be there. You can link through to that. I think I just have a word quickly. Um I notice how many families say their holiday is ruined by screens, how many arguments families have. Each family is going to make their own decisions. But perhaps we agree as parents too, we are going to approach our holidays differently. In my family for the last few years, we have tr we have tried to take the radical step of all of us putting our screens in a locked suitcase during the day. And I know how hard I find that, and that is the beginning of how hard my children find that too. And I am convinced it goes better for us by doing that. I think for a lot of families they couldn't even imagine doing that. And the part that I think is the shock is that the parents do it too. We put all screens in. There are practical problems with that, and the practical and who takes the photos and where is the money and how do you pay for things? All I would say is I think there are even more arguments about screens on holiday. So so why don't we try and work out how are we going to do it? Can we get screens out for a particular family film we're going to watch together on a disproportionately tiny screen or something in the back of a tent? But how are we as parents going to take charge of screens rather than be driven by them? Can we make the agenda for a holiday? Uh, and it can change and we can fail, and we can say sorry, and we could try something different, but let's not just be slaves to them, thinking they're in charge and we just have to roll with it.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

Screen-free meal times, no screens at the table, screen-free day, a screen-free outing. Could start there, could build up.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

And we might never arrive in the car without Google Maps, and that would be the Lord's good purposes for our day.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

June, you could get like old school maps on the planet. Could be a whole activity.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

How did people cope?

SPEAKER_00 53:48

How did people cope?

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Amy, would you get out 1 Corinthians 10 31?

SPEAKER_00 53:54

I could. So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, paddleboarding, eating jelly in the bath, going to the zoo, do it all for the glory of God. There you go. Your anthem for the summer. Whatever you do, eating, drinking, or whatever else it is, do it all for the glory of God.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Let me pray. Father, would we do it all for the glory of God? Would we live and breathe? Would we eat and drink? Would we swim and walk? Would we wake up and go to bed? Would we laugh and cry? And would we do it all for the glory of God? There is a warehead, Father, that is beautiful. Thank ye that you go with us on holiday. Please, Father, be in a business of making our families a little more like you this summer and allow us as parents to lead our families there. Would we do it all for the glory of God? Amen.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

Amen. See you next time. Thanks for joining us. Um, we're having a break for the summer, but we're going to be back with so much more uh next season. I'm going to say season, Ed, because that makes us sound really grown up, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02 55:13

Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

Bye-bye.