Leave A Light On Podcast
Welcome to "Leave A Light On Podcast," the podcast that brings you inspiring stories of ordinary people overcoming extraordinary challenges in their lives. Join us as we delve into the lives of individuals from all walks of life, exploring the adversities they face and the resilience they demonstrate in overcoming them.
In each episode, we'll introduce you to a new guest—a parent, a teacher, a healthcare worker, a student, a veteran, or perhaps your neighbor next door. Through heartfelt interviews and candid conversations, we'll uncover the personal battles they've fought, whether it's overcoming illness, navigating through loss, breaking free from addiction, or facing societal barriers.
From tales of triumph over adversity to stories of perseverance in the face of hardship, "Leave a Light On Podcast" celebrates the human spirit and the strength found within each of us. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and most importantly, you'll be inspired by the resilience and determination of these everyday people who refuse to be defined by their struggles.
So, tune in and join us on this journey of hope, empowerment, and the celebration of the human spirit. Because in the end, it's the stories of everyday people that remind us all that we are capable of overcoming anything life throws our way.
Leave A Light On Podcast
Episode 6 - Building Stronger Marriages: Insights from Darren Chapman
How can you transform your marriage from good to great? Join us as we sit down with the "Love Doctor" himself, Darren Chapman, who shares invaluable insights from his book "The Happy Marriage" and his nationwide workshops with his wife Beck. From the importance of simplicity and relatability in advice to the evolving landscape of modern marriages, Darren offers practical tips that can help any couple foster intimacy and happiness in their relationship.
Navigating the complexities of modern marriage requires more than just love; it demands intentionality and communication. Discover how early intervention can save a marriage, the benefits of using communication code phrases for open dialogue, and strategies for managing short attention spans in relationships. We explore the critical role of conflict resolution in building deeper intimacy and how balancing love and responsibilities can create a more fulfilling partnership.
Finally, we unpack the journey toward emotional intimacy, stressing the importance of mutual sacrifice and service in marriage. Learn about effective daily connection rituals, the significance of shared visions, and how to balance independence with teamwork in your relationship. Whether you're dealing with the challenges of shift work or the nuances of maintaining intimacy, this episode provides actionable tips to enhance your relationship journey. Tune in for a wealth of wisdom and practical advice that promises to enrich your marriage and personal life.
Check out our socials on Instagram and Facebook at LeaveALightOnPodcast, and connect with us there.
Share your stories with us and lets Leave a Light On
Hello and welcome to Leave a Light On Podcast, a show that looks to tackle the everyday struggles in our everyday lives. It's time to shed some light on it. Leave a light on podcasts not a licensed mental health service. It shouldn't be substituted for professional advice or treatment. Things discussed in this podcast are general in nature and may be of a sensitive nature. If you're struggling, please seek professional help or contact Lifeline on 13 11 14. Here's your hosts, shane and Shev.
Speaker 3:Hey, hey, legends. Welcome to another episode of Leave a Light On. And one of your hosts is Shev, and alongside me, shano. How are you feeling, buddy? Yo, how's it, shev? How are you going?
Speaker 4:Awesome, really, good, good, really excited to be back in the studio.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I mean geez.
Speaker 4:It feels like forever actually yeah, it has been a couple of weeks so rearing to go.
Speaker 3:This is take two.
Speaker 4:Take two. Yeah, interesting one for the listeners out there. This episode that we are doing right now is actually the second time we're doing it.
Speaker 3:We faced a few gremlins, yeah, a few audio stuff ups, but hopefully we'll nail this one. Yeah, it's the wonders of technology, I suppose. Yeah.
Speaker 4:You realize that when you rely on it too much, it can bite you in the backside. That's exactly right, so yeah. So welcome back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, welcome to you too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, very, very excited about today's guest and for the listeners, I think it's going to be one of the best ones to date, probably the best to date.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I reckon so, especially with the experience that this gent's got behind him as well. Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:And also a very interesting one, is that I think you'll recognize the voice straight off the bat.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, Let the listeners pick it. See if you can pick it.
Speaker 4:So let's get into it and then we'll get into today's guest. So just a quick bio on today's guest. So he's an author as well as, obviously, a happily married man, which will give you a little bit of a hint into where we're going today. But he's the author of a book called the Happy Marriage. I have read this book, in fact, and that is one thing that has changed my life, actually Make you a better lover in the bedroom. It's not even that, it's just made me a better husband. Okay, that's good. Yeah, so it's been a good read for me.
Speaker 4:So the Happy Marriage it's a guidebook to intimacy and closeness. His wife is Beck and he has three older boys and a teenage girl, josie. Shout out to Josie. They are passionate about healthy, happy marriages that last, and in doing so, they travel the country and, hopefully, the world one day that's my vision for them and they host workshops to married couples around the country in order to help build sustainable happy marriages. In order to help build sustainable happy marriages. So, without further ado, I'd love to welcome the one, the only, mr Darren.
Speaker 2:Chapman the love doctor, hey guys, hey guys, that's a great intro.
Speaker 4:That is awesome, oh my goodness. Perfect music as well, I know.
Speaker 2:Unreal it, oh my goodness, perfect music as well, I know Unreal, it's unreal.
Speaker 4:Eh yeah, it's literally like when we were talking about happy marriages and stuff, I was like there's got to be something like really cheesecake out there and I was like that, was it that?
Speaker 3:is good, yeah, I love cheesecake. Yeah, that makes two of us dazzled.
Speaker 4:It's all it was either that or it was going to be like one of these ones where you're like Either one would have worked, either one would have worked Well. Daz welcome. For those who also don't know what we're referring to as a recognizable voice.
Speaker 2:you are also the voice of Live Aloud on podcast. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4:The intro yeah, hi guys. Yeah, welcome to the podcast. It's good to have you podcast. Thank you very much the outro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hi guys, yeah.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:It's good to have you on. Thank you, it's good to be on. Yeah, twice, again, again, again, for the first time.
Speaker 4:Again for the first time for the listeners, again, for us, it's really cool to have you on, and I think today is that you have when it comes to not only hosting the workshops, but obviously your vision for what you do is to create not only sustainable marriages but happy ones, and I think that's something that's so key in the world today is that when people are happy, everything around them is just happier, and so it's something that I think marriages in general nowadays are not doing as well as they used to do, yep, and so I think you hold a very key space. So congratulations to you and your wife, obviously, beck, who does this with you. She's incredible, but obviously we've just got you on here as the face of the happy marriage.
Speaker 4:I've read your book. As I said, great and it is amazing. I say it's amazing not because it's a lot of in-depth knowledge. It's really simple and easy and relatable, which is what I really really liked about it, because sometimes we can read a book and it can be extremely powerful in terms of its knowledge and what we're trying to intake in it, but it can also be a lot of intellect sometimes that can very much go over our heads and therefore, a lot of the message gets lost. So what I really liked about your book is, like I said, simple, easy, relatable.
Speaker 4:So, tell us a little bit about, obviously, the happy marriage, about you and what you do, sure, and let's get to know you a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, awesome. Well, like you said, darren married to Beck for 26 years oh we can't just brush over that, because 26 years nowadays that's big. That's not bad, that's big yeah.
Speaker 3:Especially in this day and age.
Speaker 2:That's big, that's funny because people say to us like, are you guys happy? Like you wrote a book called the Happy Marriage, are you guys happy? And I'll be like we're happy most of the time and I think that's a pretty good bar, that's okay. Well, and I think that's a pretty good, that's a pretty good bar. Yeah, that's okay. I think it's unrealistic to think that you're going to be happy all the time because we're human.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly, absolutely, and it's one of the things actually my wife and I talk about um, every now and again is like for us it's we want to have more happier moments than unhappy moments and for us we can have more happier ones than we're winning, because obviously the more happier we have, the better life is and the more we enjoy it Totally and the more we enjoy our marriage. So that's kind of the goal, true.
Speaker 2:I called it happy marriage because that's what we're all after, but truly it's about health. Oh, yeah, it's really about a healthy relationship because health brings joy, like health brings connection, health brings intimacy, health brings, health brings, you know, like if we have a healthy relationship, there's a bit of robust, you know, conversation that happens in there and, uh, that means we're landing on the same page more quickly, we're able to really connect and talk, like when a relationship is healthy, it'll be happy most of the time. Absolutely yeah. But, yeah, like, I wrote this book, released it in 2021, got a chance to speak at a conference in Hobart about it and then since then, you know, it's kind of taken off a little bit. We just got our first inquiry for Europe. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy. We're like great, let's do that.
Speaker 4:Great idea. Yeah, don't mind if I do that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's awesome which is nuts. Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Thanks, that's awesome. Yeah, like the goal is to practically help a million marriages, jeez a million marriages. I know that sounds way out there.
Speaker 4:But at the same time think big, think big.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, like I have 100,000 followers on TikTok, which means 100,000 people have already gone. Oh, that guy's got. I kind of like that thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know now it doesn't mean anything, but it's interesting if you think about that, I mean the stats of that you just got. If they tell 10 people, there's your million people right there, right. So it's not, it's not far off in terms of the aim, sure, sure, absolutely. So I mean amazing and congratulations on, obviously, the Europe side. We'll see if that happens. I mean yeah, let's hope.
Speaker 3:That's still a big step, but yeah, oh, it's massive yeah.
Speaker 4:I mean, not many people can say, obviously, that not only is their book, but their passion is going and taking them overseas.
Speaker 2:So congrats, yeah, um, and that also then shows the impact that the book is having yeah, true, um, true, so it was a couple, a couple in sweden who read my book and said oh, we've, we've been in touch with a whole bunch of because most of the workshops we do are in churches, yeah, and they just gather a whole bunch of their married couples and you know, we'll do like a two to two hour kind of two andand-a-half-hour kind of workshop, which is so fun.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But you know, a couple in Sweden are like hey, we've got a whole bunch of guys over here that want you. Yeah, I'm like cool.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I'm already married yeah.
Speaker 2:They want you both to come, but like that's by and by and maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't, but yeah, like our goal is just to help couples have healthier relationships and that's going to translate to more happiness Absolutely Right across the board, yeah, in your relationship.
Speaker 4:That's good, that's so good and I liked what you said, obviously that happiness in relating to health, because it is. I mean, that's why people go to gym, they release the dopamine and the serotonin and everything like that, and obviously you're happier from that. So it's very relatable in the fact that you're saying healthy marriages lead to physical health at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and I think yeah, if we wanted to keep the whole book and the whole happy marriage stuff super practical, like you were saying. Yeah, like it's not, so it's not just concept, concept, concept yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's like, let's break it down. How do we love each other better? How do I, how do I listen longer than I feel like you know? Like, how do we do conversation and connection and sex, and how do we do these things better? How do we do life together? What are we we building, where are we going, yeah, and what are we establishing along the way?
Speaker 4:Yeah, what kind of relationship do we want? Yeah, absolutely. Which is so key because I think which we'll obviously get into now, but just before I think we continue, we obviously use the term marriage quite a bit, obviously throughout this podcast that we're going to be talking today and your books to happy marriage, but I think for listeners, this is not only about marriage. This is about relationship in general. Yes, Romantic relationships. Yeah, we're talking about happy marriages, but we're also talking about happy relationships.
Speaker 4:So whether you're married or you're in a long-term relationship or even a new relationship. This is something that I think would be key and beneficial for you to develop and grow, However that looks for you in that, in that space. So I think let's look at relationship in general nowadays and marriage the concept of marriage, because it's for me personally. I feel like it's changed a lot over the last couple of years. Let's discuss what marriage looks like to you, the concept of marriage and obviously, the traditional side of things, and what marriage looks like today.
Speaker 2:Look, I think I'm probably a fairly traditional guy when it comes to what marriage is. The outworking of that I think needs to be, I guess, modernized to current culture. So I think, like marriage is for life, I don't think anyone you know wants to like gets married and it's like cool, it's, we'll be like this until, like I think it was sliced alone got married for his like seventh wife and in the in the vows it said essentially I'll be with you until we don't like each other anymore. Oh, wow. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. But no one gets married, thinking this is just for a couple of years. We want it to last, we've fallen in love and I think marriage is for life. But there are, of course, extenuating circumstances of horrible things that can happen to us and sometimes the marriage doesn't survive those things. Yeah, so I think it's great to have this ideal and this goal of marriage for life, but with the understanding that sometimes things get funky, sometimes things happen to us and sometimes we make extremely bad choices that can explode the relationship.
Speaker 2:I don't think that any marriages can't be saved unless there's, for example, stuff like domestic violence, where the perpetrator is unwilling to change or where there's an affair and the perpetrator is unwilling to change, or where there's an affair and the perpetrator is unwilling to change, but I think that, for you know, 95% of marriages that aren't struggling with those high-level challenges, I think there's a lot of stuff we can do to reconnect and, to you know, get healthy and be happy and enjoy, like I think you should enjoy, your marriage.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, I think you should enjoy being with your spouse. You shouldn't be like trying to get into the other room to be on your phone when they're in that room on their phone. Yeah. Let's you know. I think you should enjoy being married.
Speaker 3:Yeah, especially when you're shelling out a heap of money on a wedding too.
Speaker 4:Get out of me Totally. The wedding industry is a multi-billion dollar industry.
Speaker 2:That's right, and most people spend more money on their marriage sorry on their wedding than they do preparing for their marriage. Yeah, okay, yeah. You know like in the actual relationship. Yeah, okay, because we kind of jump in going yeah, we love each other, that's going to be great. And then we, you know, block heads and we're like that's going to be great.
Speaker 3:And then we, you know, block heads and we're like yeah, because I've heard some stories, man, that people spend up to like probably more, but like hundreds and thousands of dollars. It's like it's like one day anyone spending anyone spending hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 4:Please come see me because I would love to chat how you got that right, because I didn't get anywhere near hundreds of dollars I got thousands of dollars.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hundreds of thousands.
Speaker 5:He means hundreds of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars the cheapest wedding I've ever had in my life Sorry, ten bucks Ten bucks, go to Vegas, mate the wedding table, you get a free holiday.
Speaker 3:No, but hundreds of thousands of dollars. I've heard that and that's just crazy, totally, totally.
Speaker 2:But it's the relationship that is sustained or you want to be sustained over the years, and the average couple takes six years before they cease therapy with a problem. Six years, six years with a drama, a problem, before they reach out to therapy. A marriage counselor, a marriage coach, that's a heck of a long time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it is when you think about the average length of a marriage in Australia, right? And then you say I think we discussed this, it was 20, was it 22 years or something like that Was the average length of a marriage in Australia.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it was somewhere around there.
Speaker 4:Yeah 20 years or something was the average length and I remember it had changed slightly. But when you look at six years that's like a quarter of that marriage. You are holding on to something that potentially could have been solved years before.
Speaker 2:So true.
Speaker 4:Because how often is it that when you do speak your problem out out of your head, that ultimately, not only does the solution become clearer, but that problem doesn't seem as great, it doesn't have as much hold on us. That's so true and I think that's the key thing. And when you speak about it in an environment like therapy, where it comes from a non-biased position because often we can go to our friends and we can have discussions with our friends when we have an issue Totally and they're going to obviously give us a biased opinion from their side, and then we think, oh, we can hold the scratch even tighter, um, and yet when we look at it from a very non-biased perspective, it can change perspective for us sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yes, um so go straight to your spouse first yeah go and say, hey, can we chat about something? Is it okay if we have a little conversation? And then, like my wife will say to me, can I just be blunt, like that's such a helpful thing to say, because now I know that what's coming out of her mouth, um, I don't have it's, I don't have to take it all personally yeah, you know what I mean she's like I don't know how to put this better, so can I just say it bluntly and I'll be like, yeah, yeah, bring, yeah bring it on, bring it on, and I do slightly brace myself.
Speaker 3:So you're already ready for it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but we have a code phrase that we use. Yeah. So when we want to start an important discussion, right, a hard conversation, we have a code phrase and we say to the other person, hey, in the interest of open communication, oh, then you know. And then the other person knows, okay, this is important to them. I need to, like you know, put my phone away, give them my full attention, yeah. And then I need to let them get a bit vulnerable, and I need to get a bit vulnerable in this place too, because this is really important to them.
Speaker 2:therefore, it needs to be really important to me. Yeah, so we call it a kind opener. Okay, however, you want to start it. There's a saying that the Gottman Institute says, and it says how you start a fight will be how you finish a fight. So, if you start quiet, if you start calm, if you start peaceful, if you start loving and kind. That's probably how the fight's going to end, okay, or the disagreement.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But if you come in guns blazing, guess how the fight's going to end?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he looked at me straight away because I'm I'm looking at both of you.
Speaker 2:There's no one. I was pointing at.
Speaker 4:He's saying I was looking at him.
Speaker 3:He's looking at me Shane knows, because I am very guns blazing kind of guy. Come in nice and strong. I'm working on it. Bring some wine or some chocolate.
Speaker 4:I think, in all honesty, I think we all have moments where we can get passionate and heated, so it's not. I hope you don't feel like I was looking at you in judgment.
Speaker 3:Oh no, we're good mates, so you can say what you need to.
Speaker 4:It definitely wasn't in judgment because I know from my side I can get heated.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 4:Chantelle will often say to me Chantelle might be my wife. She'll often say to me she's like all right, you're getting passionate. I can hear in your voice Like you need to bring it down a level. And that's when I'm like I don't realize I'm doing that Right. But that's when I realized, okay, I need to just bring it down and have just a minute just to kind of reset Great, which is good, but just funny enough, you were talking about a code word there.
Speaker 4:Because such a good idea, I think, to have that, Because it does snap you into a position where now you're ready to receive, Whereas when you're just having a normal conversation and the day-to-day life and the distractions all around you, and like you say you're on your phone or you're just having a normal conversation and the day to day life and the distractions all around you, and like you say you're on your phone or you're watching a TV program and something sparks a conversation, and now you're in that middle thing. If you're not in the position to receive what your partner is saying, not only is it not going to be taken in the right way, but immediately when you start to feel like you need to not defend because you're not in a position to receive it. That's exactly right. Now you're in a position where you're like okay, well, I'm defending myself rather than trying to actually input or take in what my spouse is saying.
Speaker 2:I'm not listening. Yes, I'm on my guard.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, that's exactly right. Like I think, if you're some people would say, hey, we need to talk, and that's often taken as a oh my gosh, and then the guard goes up and we get defensive. So have a code phrase that's not hey, we need to talk that's not pointed.
Speaker 2:It's actually coming from this place of vulnerability. Oh wow, and that is going to open the door like much softer than hey, we need to talk and you're in the wrong and blah, blah, blah. It's actually hey, in the interest of open communication. The other day, you kind of did this thing. It was really, actually hurtful and I just need you to know that that hurt me. So we're expressing ourself in an emotional, but a vulnerable and a real way. And guys, we can do this too. You don't have to be female to be emotional or vulnerable. It's actually an incredible gift to your spouse when you go a little bit deeper and talk a little bit deeper about what's going on inside of you. Yeah, both genders love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all genders love that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Just what you're saying about the. You know, my head is exactly the same. It goes straight to the bad stuff, when you need to talk. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's just instantly negative, Like I'm thinking, oh shit, what have I done? Totally.
Speaker 2:And so.
Speaker 3:I know what you're saying about that. You instantly get defensive.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:So yeah, but I know what you're saying about that, yeah sorry. A bit too far away. Sorry, shane, but yeah, no, 100% know what you're saying about that, because my brain instantly goes oh no, what have?
Speaker 5:I done yeah, it's going to get defensive. So like do you want rules of engagement? Oh nice yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, how are we going to have hard conversations? Yeah, like not in the middle of a conversation you don't want to ask that question but like when things are good and smooth, have the conversation. How are we going to have hard conversations with each other? Yeah, what's going to be a really good way for me to start a difficult conversation with you or with each other?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Create a code phrase that you can use or something like that. It doesn't have to be what we use, it can use anything.
Speaker 4:Totally Well, funny enough. You say that because I don't know if you've watched that series called Ted Lasso.
Speaker 2:Oh dude, brilliant series I love, love love.
Speaker 4:I think I've seen the whole thing like twice now. Yes, have we. It's brilliant. But in there you would obviously know him and his ex-partner that he has. Sorry, spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Speaker 4:They used to have a code word that they used that's right, when they were having a discussion and then they needed to, like, tell how they were really feeling, yeah, and they would say their code phrase was Oklahoma, oklahoma. And when the other person said Oklahoma, you had to be brutally honest, right, about how you were feeling in that moment.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that Because, wow, I love that. Yeah, I love that. Wow, that would have went down like a lead balloon. They would have been fisting everything down the train, aren't they, oklahoma? What are you going to say about me? That's right.
Speaker 4:Totally, it came from the other person. So let's just say Darren and I were having a discussion and I said to Darren how do you feel? And Darren goes yeah, I feel great. And then I would to Darren how do you feel? And Darren goes yeah, I feel great. And then I would go Oklahoma. Which means that I'm in a position where I'm saying I'm ready to hear what you want to say. Tell me the truth, truthfully right. So if I go Oklahoma, darren goes actually, I'm not okay. Yes, and then I'm not defensive, I'm the one who's asking the question, to be honest with me.
Speaker 3:Oh righty, oh righty-o. He says Oklahoma and he's like righty-o.
Speaker 2:I'm ready to unleash on you.
Speaker 4:No, no, no. That mustache you're wearing is terrible.
Speaker 3:Fix it up. You know what I mean. All good.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't say Oklahoma.
Speaker 4:But yeah. But in saying that, I think if we look at healthy marriages, a lot of it is those who resolve conflict. The best Right, because you can either run from the conflict or ignore the conflict like we've said, with six years before you go see a therapist which creates resentment, which creates chasms between each other and connection and breakages and connection, and that's where obviously you have the breakdown in a lot of relationships. Or you can learn to have these conversations in a real respectful, loving way, even though it might be hard to hear, and in that the resolution and the connection that you then form from the resolution is so much greater.
Speaker 2:That's right. So like a business book business guy, patrick Lencioni, he wrote a book called the Five Dysfunctions of Team and he's got five stages of dysfunction that happens in team.
Speaker 2:And the second one is artificial harmony. Yes, and I read that and was like oh my gosh, that happens so much in marriage, where we actually have a fear of conflict. We don't want to bring it up with our spouse and so we just kind of push it down and we pretend that everything's fine on the surface. We have this artificial peace. It's like fake peace on the surface. No, no, no, we're a big, happy family and everyone's good and we're always good all the time, but actually we're seething underneath because we have a deep frustration or a hurt or a fear, or we don't feel like we have the freedom to have a conversation, to have the conflict. So a good marriage is not no conflict. Yeah, that's impossible, it's impossible.
Speaker 2:We had friends of ours who got married really young and after a few months six months had a chat with the guy and I was like dude, how's life? And he's like man, we've got the best marriage on earth. We have never had a fight. And I was like dude, what the heck, how, how do you do this? And he's like everything's going so well, blah, blah, blah. We've never had a fight. I'm like that's the ultimate. Within nine months they'd separated and within another year they were divorced. Oh wow, and it's like that's not the pinnacle. No conflict is not the pinnacle. Like a marriage with no conflict is a marriage with no communication.
Speaker 4:That's yeah, that's key, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:So don't run from conflict, just learn how to do it well yeah because that's gonna, like you said you dude, you hit the nail on the hammer hit the nail on the head. There you go with the hammer. Right. You hit the nail on the head because those conflicts enable us to connect deeper. That's why people have makeup sex, yeah Right, because now we're actually like we're feeling so emotionally connected that you're primed. We won't keep going.
Speaker 4:Okay, so interesting concept that you said there, because this is something maybe I'd love to hear your opinion on. Obviously, the concept of makeup sex. You were talking about that. Now, my hesitation when it comes to this particular topic of makeup sex, if we put it in inverted commas is that what will happen. Is people then use conflict as an excuse to then have intimacy? Yeah, wow, so they'll start an argument in order for the result to be make-up sex? Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I haven't heard of that.
Speaker 4:I mean, that's probably true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. It's not something that I've come across personally.
Speaker 4:So I know of people who have been in relationships like that. True.
Speaker 2:Like. Learn how to connect in other ways yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we talked about having hard conversations and being vulnerable. There's levels of depth in conversations. So, like when we use a kind opener and we say something like a code phrase, what we're doing is we're immediately diving deep with the other person. Yeah, we're not just talking shallow, how was your day? Blah, blah, blah. And shallow is great. Don't get me wrong. I love shallow conversations. They're a really good place to start. Just don't live there. Yeah, don't stay there for your entire married life. But what we want to learn to do is to have deeper and deeper conversations. In fact, I just literally wrote a piece on that. Wrote a piece on that. I sent it out to my email. News that it's on my blog. I don't mean to say this, but check it out at thehappymarriagecomau.
Speaker 2:And if you go five cues of deeper connection. Because we want intimacy with each other that starts with emotional intimacy, or for guys it often starts with sex and then ends with emotional intimacy. So guys are sometimes the other way around.
Speaker 4:In general, we are upside down, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:But, like what we often do, is we miss the cues to walk through the door to the next level of the conversation.
Speaker 4:Okay, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:by that. Let's say, for example, that you're not really in the same room very often. That's the first cue. The first cue is proximity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, get in the same room more often. You're not going to have an intimate, fun, friendship and relationship and romantic relationship unless you're in the same space. So, like proximity is key. Then, if you're in the same room but you're not paying each other any attention, that's key as well. And then starting a conversation, like giving them your attention, that starts conversation.
Speaker 2:But if conversation, if I'm telling, like Shane, if I'm telling you a story and you're like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're looking at your phone and you're like looking at the door and you're not really paying me attention, you're not really taking an interest in what I'm saying, I'm not feeling accepted, there's no engagement. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so acceptance means I'm now feel safe. But when I'm not paying attention to the person, then like, if that, if my wife comes home and she's telling me a story, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'm looking everywhere, and you know, looking at my watch, and you know, like I've got an Apple watch that's dinging, and so I'm paying attention to that and not to her. There is no way she's going to open up her heart to me.
Speaker 2:True, because she doesn't feel safe in the conversation we're already having. So looking at her, active listening, asking further follow-up questions. That's going to make her feel safe. And then she's going to feel like, oh, I can start to share something from my heart right now. And now the conversation is moving towards intimacy, because your vulnerability is the next key, and then, if we continue to stay kind and curious, then we've got intimacy. I like that. But if we miss the cues, we're not going to have the intimacy that we want.
Speaker 3:So what happens if you've got an attention span, like me, and I just look at my watch anyway and look everywhere, because Shane knows what I'm like?
Speaker 4:Yeah, but even in that.
Speaker 3:I've got a short attention span.
Speaker 4:I think the attention span thing can be an excuse because at the end of the day, I feel if you're invested in something for instance, shev for you for this podcast you are like a dog with a bone with this thing. Oh yeah, I love it. You are like, honestly, you devote every moment of your spare time into like planning and talking and like you do not let things go. And that's why I say, when you are invested in something, the attention thing is it doesn't come into it.
Speaker 3:So I love this thing, man, honestly, yeah, I love what we're doing.
Speaker 4:So, when you're invested and you love something, you will then not allow the distractions then to be as prevalent as they are. And that's not to say every single moment is going to be that way. This is my opinion, sorry, yeah, yeah, um, but you would, you for me, you would invest into something when you're you are sold out for it and if you do get distracted, you could just dive straight back in and say, oh, sorry about that.
Speaker 2:What were you saying? Like yeah, seriously, just like re-engage. Yeah, come back into the conversation, right? Hey, babe, sorry about that. Um, charlie, like my, my wife I'll be talking about like nba basketball or something, and she's like you can show the rockets. Yeah I know, show the decent rockets, come on and you can see her eyes glazing over because she is not interested. She doesn't care, but she does care about me, which is why she stays in the conversation.
Speaker 4:Now.
Speaker 2:I might be telling her a story about work or the Rockets or something like that, and she'll like flake out for a while, she'll like completely zone out, and then she'll actually own up to it and be like okay, sorry, I'm fully zoned out there what were you saying?
Speaker 2:but she's honest, exactly that's the thing like what we need is authenticity, and what we want is for our spouse to be real with us, and so I think it's totally okay, man, if you like, flake out and you're like, hey, look at that squirrel over there, yeah, and then, and then you go oh, like, just refocus, re-engage. Oh sorry, babe, what were you saying?
Speaker 3:I'm not easily distracted. Wow, that's a blue car, that's that's me dad it is, it's like, I think that's okay, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's me, and your wife knows what you're like yeah, she does she knows it. So if you just keep showing her that she's the most important thing in the world, yep, okay, cool yeah, cool, happy days.
Speaker 4:She'll appreciate that I liked something that you said in that as well was just um that owning it or being truthful in the moment, because often what we can do is we can like like just fob it off rather than own the moment, like you say, of saying, hey, sorry, I got distracted. Right, can you please continue your conversation, because I do want to know what you're saying, rather than you know. We start thinking about other things that are more important in the moment and then it's like, okay, well, this is not important to me, and then now I'm going to ignore my spouse in this. Yeah, totally, rather than own the moment of saying I got distracted, I'm so sorry, please continue, yeah.
Speaker 2:I do that to Bec sometimes. Yeah, I'll come into, like the bedroom and she's sitting on the bed and you know, doing something, and then she'll start talking to me, saying this long version of the story, and then I'm checking out, like I'll like play with the keys in my pocket, I'm like find myself halfway out of the door, you know, and then I realise what the hell, darren, what are you doing? Mate, this is the most important person in the world to you. Yeah, and you're checking out of the room, let alone the conversation, and I have to like re-engage. Yeah, I'm like, Darren, re-engage, let's go back in and then I'll walk back in.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't always get this right, but I try. Walk back in, sit on the bed. Okay, then what happened? I want to communicate to her. Tell me more. I'm invested in you, I'm interested in your life. I'm not just in it for the good things and the sex and the fun, I'm not just in it for the good things and the sex and the fun, I'm actually interested in you. So sometimes I find myself I've got to re-engage in a conversation that I've checked out of.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, very interesting in terms of that. So what are some of the key principles? Obviously, I think we've discussed a few, obviously talking about conflict management being one, how we can resolve conflict. In that, what are some of the things that you would say to a new couple coming on board? How can they start the relationship on a good foot that will then they can start to implement things that will then see them through longevity-wise in their relationships.
Speaker 2:Look, in the early days of our relationship we got a lot of stuff wrong, but we got a few key things right. And one of the things that we agreed was that, no matter how hard it is, we're always going to talk about it. Nice, and we have it's almost like a bit of a communication agreement. You know, sign here. You know it was like, regardless of how awkward or hurt or annoyed or whatever that we feel, we decided that we're always going to talk about it, even if it couldn't be resolved in that day. That's okay. But knowing that we have made this agreement means that we're going to have some hard times and some difficult conversations and some awkward moments, but ultimately we're not going to sweep stuff under the carpet and let it fester and let it build and build and build. We're going to deal with things as they come up.
Speaker 2:Life is complex and you know there's so much going on and we've got a lot of pressure and a lot of you know a lot of stuff happening in our worlds. Our calendars are full and our you know, our brains get inundated with all kinds of stuff every day. So it's, it's good to have the habit of short accounts, the habit of dealing with stuff as it comes up. Otherwise. Oh, I heard this quote the other day. Who was it? I'm just gonna find it. It was absolutely brilliant. And who was it? Who, who said this? Oh, my goodness, now I'm trying to find you got to give me something to say.
Speaker 4:Here we go, here we go here we go.
Speaker 2:I wrote it down because it was super interesting. It was this um quote from a guy on twitter called sahil bloom and he says when you avoid a difficult conversation, you're taking on a debt that has to be repaid with interest at a date in the future.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness that is, yeah, that's pretty so if if I don't decide to talk about stuff now, it's just going to build. And I'm going't decide to talk about stuff now, it's just going to build and I'm going to have to talk about it later. So it's actually easier to bite the bullet and just go hey babe, this thing happened. Can you not do that again?
Speaker 3:Or hey, this thing happened Because it'll end up worse in the long run.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:That's pretty good.
Speaker 2:You know like it's like taking on a debt. I've got a new mortgage now and it's this conversation that I didn't have. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, so a worry about later. So new couples just like you want to have things that are good habits for your future together. So like not eating in front of the TV, yeah, like connecting, like rituals of connection, like what do you do every day? Debrief the day after work, grab a cup of tea or a glass of wine and a beer, or sit in the lounge and talk, like just connect every single day, that's what you want to have. You want to make sure that you've got good habits in place from the get-go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, how important, in your opinion, do you feel it is for couples to share their emotional or their emotions, their vulnerable side, to each other, even though sometimes we feel that our partners might not understand? I think you've stumped him.
Speaker 3:I think it's a journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's a journey of continually learning to be more vulnerable with each other, and that can be like certain people. Like me, I'm an open book. You know what I mean. Like I wear my heart on my sleeve. You know if I turn up and I'm not doing well, you'll know it. Yeah, because I can't hide it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, same with my wife. My wife will be like hey, what's going on with you? Yeah, Right so but what's going on with you? Yeah Right, but some people aren't as emotionally expressive as others and I know, like a lot of guys, we just don't want to talk about our feelings. But if we understand that emotional intimacy is the key to the intimacy that we want, so if you understand that that's talking about what's going on inside of me is actually the doorway to physical intimacy, we'll probably be more open to it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:But I think that it's a journey that you take together on slowly opening that depth of heart a bit more over the years. Again back to that kind of safety thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:As we feel safer in the relationship, we are able to open up a bit more. But I know some people want their spouse to be emotionally deep all the time. That's exhausting. Yeah, that's like whoa, hang on a minute. My wife says that to me. Sometimes she's like, hey, we don't need to be at that level all day, every day, like let's have some fun, let's lighten up and, you know, maybe don't be so intense all the time.
Speaker 3:Take a step back, Daz.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, but because I'm a bit of a thinker, but I'm more of a feeler, I'm expressive in my emotion. My wife is the opposite. She's like, yeah, cool, we're good, you know, like she's very steady, whereas I'm up and down Okay, more high and low, very steady, whereas I'm up and down, more high and low. And some people want their spouse to be at the same emotional expressiveness, I guess the same type of emotional expressiveness as they are, and I'd say, yeah, like you want to have deeper conversation about real things definitely you want to have the freedom and the safety to express yourself when there's a problem and talk about important things, definitely, but I think it's a journey.
Speaker 2:But guys who aren't interested in talking like don't want to talk about my feelings, well, like, get used to it, get okay with it, because that's how we build a really beautiful marriage, that's how we build a wonderful life together yeah by doing this journey of depth, this journey of life, and sometimes that has to go a bit deeper than what we're comfortable with in the time yeah, I think when I look at it from a maybe a different perspective.
Speaker 4:um know, we always talk about relationship being. I always it's not me always thinking about myself, it's me always having now to think of someone else and their needs and what they need in this particular relationship. And so, even though maybe, like you say, I'm a guy and I don't necessarily feel like I need to talk about my feelings, I need to think about my wife and what she does For her, she does feel like she wants to talk about her feelings and in that, wants me to talk about my feelings, and so there might need to come a time when I'm going hey, I might not want to, but she needs me to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great. I think this comes back to what you asked me right at the start of the pod, and that was what is your definition of marriage? I think marriage is well. In marriage, we want love, and love is not about how I'm feeling. Love is about what I'm giving. Yeah, and I think that sometimes we get married because we want to feel loved, but actually love is sacrificial. Love is service. In fact, inherent in love is not I'm doing this so that you will love me, but I'm doing this so that you'll be loved. Yeah, so it's the recipient of the love that determines how well it's going. Yeah, so that's exactly what you said before. Yeah, I'm not married just for my own benefit. The purpose of marriage is that both of us would live to serve the other and both of us are fulfilled in that. So Tim Keller said this incredible statement. He said mutual sacrifice equals mutual fulfillment. So as I don't just live in this marriage to be fulfilled, I actually live to sacrifice and fulfill my wife. She does the same for me.
Speaker 2:It's this perfect blend of genuine love and generosity and giving and serving the other person, knowing that they're going to give and serve me as well. Now, it's not perfect all the time. We're human. I screw it up, that's okay, but this is how healthy marriages work. Yeah, it's a partnership, is how healthy marriages work. Yeah, it's a partnership, isn't it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, really.
Speaker 4:It's interesting, like you said, that that, that whole thing of like, even though some days I might not be able to give as much. I can't remember who it was that I was listening to, but they said it's like a tennis match. Yeah, obviously one shot's going to be harder than the next. So if my opposing partner, who is my spouse in this particular example, if she hits the ball to me at 40%, that doesn't necessarily mean that I have to hit the ball back to 40%. What it might mean if we're working as a partnership, I might have to give more because I need to keep the rally going, so I might have to give more effort on that day. Yeah, right, I see. So I'm not matching my spouse's input on that, right, for me, it's a case when my spouse is feeling a little bit down on that particular day. It means that I've got to give more, because in the moment when I'm feeling down, I'm gonna have to give more.
Speaker 4:Well, they're gonna have to give more sorry yeah, it evens itself, yeah, yeah so the whole analogy was like if they hit 40, that just means I would give 60 great yeah, I love what brené brown says, so she said that when she comes home yeah she has a quick check-in with her husband and she says to him hey, I'm at such and such a percentage.
Speaker 2:She might say I'm at 20% today. I've got barely anything to give and he'll be like, it's okay, I got 80. We can make it.
Speaker 4:We can do this together. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But if both their percentages can't match 100, then they have to have a conversation so that they don't hurt each other that night it's like whoa good see, I love that. Yeah, because there's an immediate, this little check-in, and I've coached a couple of couples to do that. You know, like there's an immediate check-in how you doing. Look, I'm at 40 I'm only at 20.
Speaker 2:I've got nothing left in the tank today. Okay, how are we going to get through the night still loving and supporting each other as a team without doing damage to one another?
Speaker 4:yeah it's just such a great it's such a great, it's kind of similar to the the tennis approach yeah, which is so good, because I feel like nowadays and I mean this in in in general, people are very quick to turn their back on relationships from friendships, romantic relationships, relationships in general when they feel that their efforts are not being matched. To a degree. I can understand that. Maybe there comes a point when you have to take a point. Simon Sinek put it really interesting the one day, and he talked about his friendship and he said I had a friend who was going through a hard time and they would generally beat themselves up quite a bit and I would consistently be the one that would say hey, how can I help? How can I help? How can I help? And eventually I got to a point where I was the one who was ending up being drained all the time and I felt like I wasn't getting any input in return. So, instead of just throwing my hands up and walking away, the conversation I had with my friend in this particular instance and this is simon cynic he said hey, mate, I love you.
Speaker 4:I don't understand that. You're in a place where you obviously can't give a lot. I'm also in a place where maybe I can't give as much, so I'm letting you know that I'm standing right here. I will be here as much as you need me, but you need to come to me. You need to be the one that actually houses responsibility in.
Speaker 4:This, brings ownership, and even if you can only put 20% and come 20% towards me, that's fine, but you need to come to me because I cannot be the one who continually comes to you. Yes, because I am also a person and I am also going through my things and need input. Yeah, that's great, and I need value, and I think what that just taught me was that people can often just throw their hands up and go well, you know, this relationship isn't giving me any value anymore. You know I'm not getting the same out of it as I'm getting in and they just walk away. And you, how many times have we heard of relationships that just end because people are like, well, I'm done with it now, rather than say, hey, I'm still here, but I need to know are you going to meet me where I'm?
Speaker 2:at.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's good, rather than me consistently being the one that has to come and meet you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because in a relationship it's a two-way street, that's right.
Speaker 2:I think that's what we sign up for when we say I do.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We sign up for a consistent yes, I'm turning up for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 50% partnership type of thing. Yeah, I think it's both 100% yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I'm committing to turning up for you to the best of my ability on that day until I die. That's the commitment I made to my wife. Do I do that every day To the best of my ability, and that's it. To the best of your ability, that's right Now. Sometimes I'm operating at 40% and that's my max and that's the best of your ability.
Speaker 4:That's right Now. Sometimes I'm operating at 40% and that's the best of my ability.
Speaker 2:But that's where it's a teamwork, it's teamwork, it's a partnership, like you, said Like we're supporting each other. Some days I'm giving 80% or 90% and some days she's giving 80% or 90%, and that's okay because life is dynamic and you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's that commitment to a consistent yes, yes, even if it's not 100% every single day, like it's the best that I can give. Yeah and now, if your spouse needs professional help, or they need to go and see their GP and get a mental health plan, or if they need further help, then you need to empower them to do that. If they're consistently turning up at 10% and that's all they've got to give, then they need further assistance, further help, and that can't all be on the spouse. That's also got to be on the person and on the the health providers that we have around us who can encourage us, like a counselor, a psychologist or a gp or medication or whatever like this is a mental health podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys, you, you guys are all over it. So, um, even though you're not professionals.
Speaker 3:Yes, disclaimer, there Come and see Come and see the disclaimer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what I really like there, obviously, daz, is like you're saying, is that I feel it's a balance between loving our spouse and loving ourselves. Great, because some people go to the extremes of loving ourselves, which is obviously a dangerous place. It leads to arrogancy, it's pride, it's me, me, me. I'm not getting enough. I'm not this, I'm not fulfilled, it's all about me, me, me. And then you get some people that are all about loving their spouse. You're not doing this, you're not loving me enough, you're and the fingers are always pointing the other way.
Speaker 4:Rather, when it's a balance, half of it is in the responsibility is I have responsibility in this, you have responsibility in this? And let's rather say it's. How can, like you say we talked about an investment earlier when I'm investing in something, I want a return. At the end of the day, if something is good, you want to see the return. So, in a marriage, when you're investing your time and your efforts, the happiness is the return of investment. So, when you're happy and you're laughing and you're enjoying it and you have these memories that you cherish for the rest of your life, that's the investment and the return of memories that you cherish for the rest of your life. That's the investment and the return of investment that you get Totally. And sometimes investing isn't easy, but when you remember that the return at the end of it is big, yeah, great. That's when you got. The investment is worth it.
Speaker 2:And I think we have to be careful of getting sucked into a transactional relationship too, where I give you this and this and this and you give me this and this and this, and now we're fine, whereas it's actually this sense of love and service to one another. But I need to look at the big picture of what we're building together, like I want to build a beautiful life with my wife.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that, a life with my wife. Yeah, that was good. I want to build a beautiful life.
Speaker 2:That might mean we go through some hard seasons. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm not seeing that investment return necessarily immediately, or that week or that month or even that year. We might go through like we had a perfect storm a couple of years ago and something happened at my wife's work and it just sent her into an absolute spin and it really affected our marriage, really deeply affected our marriage. It was like the perfect storm created to really pull us apart and then, just as we felt like we were coming out of it, her dad died and I was like oh man, and it was hard for another couple of months. But I'm like I don't know when this is going to end. When is this season, this thing, this hardship, this trial, whatever you call it? When is this crap going to end? I couldn't see it, but we started, you know, after about four months or so we started to come out the other side and I was like, thank God.
Speaker 2:You know, but, sometimes you're not going to get the return on the investment immediately.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's why I think marriage is for life.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we get this opportunity to enjoy one another overall over our lives together, even if week to week it's not perfect.
Speaker 3:That's the sort of stuff that makes your marriage stronger, doesn't it Like? When you go through those really, really hard times and you still stick together by each other's side. I think that personally, like I, think that makes it so much stronger, because if something like that happens later on, you can go well, we've been through this Exactly and we can do it again.
Speaker 2:That's so good, geoff, so good, anyway. So anyway, that's great.
Speaker 3:I'm not a smart man but I do listen.
Speaker 2:I think you're smarter than what you give yourself credit for mate, the amount of wisdom in what you just said there.
Speaker 3:But it's true, though, because when it happens again, you just go. You know what, mate? We've been through this shit before we can do it again.
Speaker 2:We have historical precedent that we can make it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and.
Speaker 4:I think the biggest killer in relationships nowadays is comparison, and social media plays a big part in this, which is huge, but when we start to compare our relationships to other people's relationships, that's the biggest killer of relationships nowadays. Right, because what we see ultimately is that when someone else is happy and maybe we're not in that happy space we're like we want that True, and therefore I'm not getting it here. Therefore, I need to move on, right, and that's when we talk about investment, when you are not worried about comparison. We just invested in where we're at at the moment and we're going to ride the waves, because investment in any portfolio goes up and goes down and you ride the waves.
Speaker 4:Any good investor will tell you that. You ride the waves of that and you slowly and gradually build from there. And only 20 years from now do we go? Holy crap, look at that return of investment, look at this, and that's the beautiful life, like you say that you start to build. When you look back and you go, this life is incredible, like I'm so blessed, grateful. You know Totally. It's just that return of investment is just so much greater and the comparison thing is the thing that I think kills it the most, and that whole saying of water your own grass rather than your neighbour's.
Speaker 2:Totally. If the grass looks greener on the other side. Water your own grass.
Speaker 3:Exactly water your own grass.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 4:I think I told you that didn't I. No, you'd like to think. You told me that.
Speaker 5:If the grass is greener on the other side water your own DM lawn.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Like. I love that because, like, stop comparing, stop wasting energy, comparing your relationship to somebody else's. Use that energy to build your own relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, love it Just because it looks good on the outside too. You don't know what happens behind closed doors.
Speaker 2:So true.
Speaker 3:You can see people down the street and they're happy as Larry, but when they get home, man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like it could be really Well, that's the dangers of social media. People only post the good stuff, exactly. The good stuff, because we all want to show that we're better than we really are, happier than we really are, and so rather than put the stuff that people struggle and the real things, the vulnerable moments of when we're actually going through the storm.
Speaker 4:Like you say, no one's going to post that Because we always want to show how good life is and how amazing we're doing and how successful we are. So true, but for me I mean, my most successful moments have always come through walking through the fire. That, to me, is success.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, Coming out the other side better, stronger.
Speaker 4:Totally Growing from that you know it's not the money in the bank or it's not the deal that I closed, or whatever the case is it's walking through money in the bank or it's not the deal that I closed, or whatever the case is it's walking through the fire and then coming out the other side and saying I made it and I'm better for it, love that Comparisons are shocking.
Speaker 2:Who is it? Theodore Roosevelt, the ex-American president. He said comparison is the thief of joy.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So why do you want to just spend time comparing? Go and make your own joy.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well is he wrong?
Speaker 4:He's not wrong, definitely not wrong. Good old Teddy, good old.
Speaker 3:Teddy, I've got to love him. Man, I've got a question for you. What are you? Are you just Don't care? Yeah, no. I was just going to say. Just a question for you Do you think it's the good idea that people in like a relationship that are still going really strong? Do you think it's still a good idea to get counselling even though they are still going strong, like to make it stronger, or do you think it's?
Speaker 2:I would say Do you know? What I'm trying to say'm trying to say like keep growing in your understanding of how relationships work yeah, okay, because I think you've got a couple questions there, so you might not need a counselor or a coach. Yeah, unless you've got a problem. Yeah, okay, but that doesn't mean you can't invest by reading yeah, or listen to a podcast, make it stronger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally yeah okay, it's like it's similar to investing. I think it was Robert Kiyosaki in Rich Dad, poor Dad. I think he said if you learn a principle early, you'll make money out of it for the rest of your life. Yeah, yeah, okay, it's the same with relationships. Yep.
Speaker 2:If I learn principles earlier, I can benefit from them for my entire life, like if I learn how to forgive my spouse. That is a gift that I can use the rest of our lives together. Yeah, but if I only learn that when I'm 65, I've just had a really rough trot for a long time and now I've learned and I'm only benefiting from that from 65 onwards, yeah, so like, keep investing in your relational education, just like you should keep investing in your financial education.
Speaker 4:Funny enough, while you're saying that, the thing that popped into my head was again another Ted Lasso line Do it. He says be curious, not judgmental. Yeah, I love that. So in that, when you're discovering in your journey with your spouse, be curious as to why they do the things that they do, why they feel the way the things that they do, rather than judge them for it, because in that, learning and growth comes out of being curious rather than resentment and hate. Absolutely so, um, so good. And what you were saying there in terms of learn it early, because if we can learn that early in the relationship, it's only going to benefit the longevity, the happiness, the joy that we experience in that it's going to make it stronger and, like you say, I know couples that do go to counseling even though they've never they've never had a major issue.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's a hundred percent shame. That's a 100% more question.
Speaker 4:Because for them it's to say well, why wait for us to be in a negative space to learn how to deal with a negative situation before it even happens?
Speaker 2:That's why we run workshops.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's like taking your car for a service. You don't wait for your car to be bussed before it goes for a service.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true yeah, right, that's good you send it in to maintain it and keep it going you know, yeah.
Speaker 4:And so if you feel like that you're going to benefit and you're going in with the right attitude to say I'm not going there my heels every time I go there, but I'm going because I know that in me being there I'm going to learn and grow and the relationship will then grow from that, then why not? Yeah, that's good, why not Do?
Speaker 3:it. I just want to let everyone know, let the listeners know and that is exactly what I does that he takes the lead and I just bounce off him because I'm not good with my words. So that was pretty much a question I was trying to ask you. It was, like you know, a bit of benefit out of that. So that's why you take the lead. I just danced off you, just thought I'd let our listeners know that's a good question, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a good question.
Speaker 4:Good question, poorly executed. So, on questions, we've obviously had a few of the listeners um write in and ask us a few questions that maybe they have on their relationships or about relationships or anything like that. So we ask you what your professional opinion and I'll say opinion, obviously, because it is just totally your opinion, um, but what your suggestion or your opinion would be on the following. So question number one I'm not going to tell you who they are, anonymous. Great, how many marriages do you think fail due to the lack of honest communication? And they specifically said this when it comes to shift work involved. And I think it's because, from what I can remember from the question was they said they had continually asked their spouse whether they were happy with them doing shift work to which they stated they were um, but the partner wasn't 100 sure if that was truthful or not.
Speaker 4:I feel like we've covered this a little bit in terms of like we spoke about artificial peace or harmony. That we spoke about where, if you are saying it just to keep the peace, it's only going to cause issues in the future.
Speaker 2:I think this comes down a little bit to vision. Where are you going together? Do you have a vision of the kind of life and relationship and family that you want?
Speaker 4:Well, talk about vision, because I know that's obviously one of the principles that you refer to in your book?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I think that vision is a lot like a bit of a long-term stabilizing factor, like no one wants to wake up in their marriage in 20 years and feel like they're in two completely separate places, like in their hearts, in their lives, they're just building their own little kingdom over on the side. So we do have conversations that say where are we going, what are we building together? And we need to decide on things like shift work or an extra job or things that affect us. Both need a team mentality.
Speaker 4:I like that.
Speaker 2:So if we, it's not the one person deciding oh yes, I'm going to do shift work, or it's both like because this is a team, like Beck and I have a stupid phrase that we use all the time it's always team, always I love that. I love that. It's simple time. It's always team always.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love that it's simple, as always.
Speaker 2:It's always team, always yeah, and it's just a reminder that I'm not making all these decisions by myself over here. I'm not in a vacuum. I'm not in a Darren vacuum making all decisions about everyone's life. Actually, beck and I are a team, and so anything that's going to affect her well, we need to get on the same page about that. Yeah. So, depending on the dream, the vision that we have for our future, we need to be like okay, does this work for us right now?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So if it doesn't work for us right now, then we need to come up with a solution together. So I guess it comes down a little bit to that. Doesn't sound like?
Speaker 2:they're on the same page, either about their future together or about how that shift work is impacting the dynamics of the household or their relationship or their level of connection. Or, you know, it might be better money, but it also might be harder on logistical. You know dynamics in the family, but it also might be harder on logistical. You know dynamics in the family. I've got to keep running the kids around everywhere and I've got to keep doing this and you're never around. You're always asleep or at work. I'm not a shift worker. I've never been a shift worker. I've just talked with a few, so it just sounds like they're not on the same page, have a conversation and if there are logistics involved like oh, I've just got called into work or I'm going to be late, you just want to have the courtesy of communicating those.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think, like you say, a lot of couples in the beginning stages they talk about vision quite a bit, because in the beginning it's exciting and it's new and it's like hot, like what's your vision for the future.
Speaker 4:And then when you start to get comfortable in the relationship, you start to talk about vision less because things just become normal and we get stuck in the rut of normal everyday life and it's like so you start to lack the vision maybe that you maybe had, or the passion for the vision that you had in the beginning. And that's when I feel complacency sets in and comparison starts to set in, because you start to look at other couples who maybe do have that vision and you speak to, like your friends, and they're like oh yeah, this is what we're planning on doing in the next two years time and this is where we see ourselves. You're like, holy crap me, this is what we're planning on doing in the next two years' time and this is where we see ourselves. You're like, holy crap, me and my partner never talk about this stuff anymore. And then you start to feel like why? Like oh no, you say when you have that lack of vision, it tends to be a very regressive step in your relationship.
Speaker 2:Put it back on the table, start talking about it again. Yeah, I like that. It's okay if it changes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and like you say, vision. You can have a short-term vision, you can have long-term vision and even in that, what your vision for 10 years' time is today might be a bit different in six months' time. Yes, but it's the communication that you have through that. That's exactly right. This is maybe what I was feeling six months ago, but now I might feel like it's different. What are you feeling? Yes, and then being open to dialogue and communication, so very cool. Next question what strategies could you use if you needed some space from your partner? And this is coming from a couple who, I'm guessing, is living together because they say living together, yep.
Speaker 2:My wife says this to me, sometimes She'll be like you need to go and spend some time with Todd or Tim and I'll be like, okay, and that's because I'm trying to get all of my I guess emotional needs or all of my things. I'm trying to get them from her so I'm not spreading out across my friends all of the stuff that I might need in terms of, like, friendship or mateship and connection and life and joy and fun.
Speaker 2:If I'm putting all of that into Beck and expecting her to be everything to me, that's unhealthy. Like we should have friends. You should better go and hang out with the boys or, if you're a female, go and hang out with the girls. That's great, that's awesome. Friendship is important. But if you need some space from your partner, just be honest.
Speaker 3:Open about it. Absolutely yeah. If you want to go for a fish or I think, talk about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I also feel like you need to come for whoever this is, I think you need to maybe come up with a reason of why you need the space from your partner. Yeah, come up with a reason of why you need the space from your partner. Yeah, sure, because if the reason is that you don't want to be with them anymore, then a hard conversation needs to be had.
Speaker 4:But if there's something in the relationship, maybe that can be resolved or needs to be resolved in order for you to not feel that you need space from them. Yes, then obviously figure out what that causes.
Speaker 2:Yes, are you just feeling smothered? Yes, or is there an actual problem in the relationship?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's good. That's a good distinction, yeah.
Speaker 2:Great. So yeah, Like we do need a healthy level of togetherness, but also a healthy level of separateness.
Speaker 3:I remember you saying that on the first time. Yes, that's Esther Perel.
Speaker 2:So, relationship legend, esther Perel, we need a healthy level of togetherness in our life, in our relationship, and then a healthy level of separateness.
Speaker 4:So the question I want to ask you on this, then why is it that when couples well when people start dating, all the friendships that they have before the relationship then become like, not as important? And so what tends to happen is the circle of friendships tend to shrink, right, because they're not investing the time that they would into the friends. And I understand, obviously, when you have a partner, you start to invest time into them, and that's great. But I do feel that sometimes people expect that those friendships just to kind of roll over without any input into them, like that friendship will just continue to be that best friend of mine, will continue to be my best friend, even though I see them once a year now, right? So do you think there's a danger in couples, like you say, expecting their spouse to now be all and end all and neglecting the friendships that they had bringing into the relationship?
Speaker 2:rather, yeah, definitely. Um, I think when you start a new relationship, you're all, you're all in. It's exciting, it's like what's going on. You're that you're on cloud nine. This is the greatest thing in the world. You know what I mean. You feel so accepted and loved and you're sharing all these things from your heart and your vision and your dreams for the future, everything right, and there's a level of infatuation. I like that that is created where we it's. We somehow think that we're just, we just. We don't even, we don't even think about everybody else. I'm in this infatuation bubble and I can't even see my friends on the side going oh, my goodness, darren needs to take a chill pill and come and hang out with us. Right, it's not that we're neglecting the friendships. It's that we're not even thinking about them. We're not purposefully chucking them to the side. We're just.
Speaker 4:We're just all in on this new relationship and it's like this is the best thing in the world. Oh my gosh so is that's?
Speaker 2:yeah, of course it's unhealthy and you can't really expect all those friends to hang on until you move past this infatuation journey until it's a real relationship and you realise, oh my goodness, you know, I know people who have done that, definitely, you know, and they're like where did all my friends go? Well, it's actually because you neglected them and put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So like a nur aisle You're whipped what You're whipped, a little bit whipped. Right. One of our mates is whipped. What You're whipped? A little bit whipped, Right. One of our mates is whipped. Let's leave him. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So Nair Isle wrote a book called Hooked and then he wrote a book called Indistractable. And in the book Indistractable he said time is the food of friendship. Oh, wow. So if you don't invest time in a friendship, it's like not watering a plant it's going to eventually die. So we need to have time with the person so that that friendship can grow. Yeah, so I read a book called Billy no Mates by Max Dickens. It's a British comedian, the funniest book I think I've listened to, or I'll actually listen to it for years. It was absolutely hilarious. And he wrote a book called Billy no Mates. And it's why Men have a Friendship Problem.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:And it was super interesting to understand how friendship works in the modern day and how it's evolved over the years. And he brought out this thing called Dunbar's number. So Robin Dunbar did all of this research on how many friends we can have and he worked out that there's levels of friendship and in our closest level of friends like the absolute top five generally would be family. But you can only have five people in your closest friendship circle. The next one is like 15 and you're pretty close with those 15 friends. Then you've got 50 that you're kind of connected to and then you've got like I think it was 150 colleagues and you know 500 other people, something like that. Look it up, dunbar's number, robin Dunbar Incredible research. And it's like when we neglect people, they just fall down into the next category.
Speaker 4:Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's not like we are. We're just not investing in those relationships enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 4:And it's interesting because something that I was actually doing a bit of thought into the other day, talking about the topic of friendships I've always been fascinated when we obviously go back and we look at the original kind of context of the word love English is a very limited language, I think Absolutely and when we look at the original kind of Greek word for love, there was nine different words that they referred to as love. Now, first we say I love my spouse, I love my friend, I love my dad, I love macaroni. I love macaroni, I love my dog, I love the TV, I love macaroni. I love macaroni, I love my dog, I love the TV show. Yes, so we use one phrase, but for varying degrees of this love, whereas in the Greek, these nine phrases all were specific to particular, different kinds of love, right? So one was the love I have for my spouse, the sexual love I have for my spouse, the fallacia was that particular one. And then there was the love that I have for God, or the love that I have for a brother or family member, and then the love I have for just a friend.
Speaker 4:So all of these were different concepts of love, and what I'm trying to say with this is that, for me, I really feel the reason those were so specific was because we need each and every one of those love in our life. Yeah, wow, that's great, true, because we've limited it to such a small spectrum of saying, well, I love and we love everything. Small spectrum of saying, well, I love and we love everything. Yeah, whereas the original context was there was nine different types of love, if you want to put them into that category to say, well, the reason there's nine is because we individually need those nine areas to feel wholly loved, true, and to express love wholly. Um, that's good. And so that's kind of like being my, my thought process over the last little while, because I feel like we've we've put love in such a small category and that, for me, is maybe why relationships do struggle nowadays is because people don't know how to love because, oh, oh, well, I love my dog, I love you, shane, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know you might love your friend, but then yes, you said that a couple of times.
Speaker 3:We're saying yeah, but what?
Speaker 4:we're saying is like when we say it like that and then we go well, I love my spouse, yes. How do we love our spouse? Do we love our spouse? Do we love our spouse the same as we love our dog, or do we love our spouse the same as yeah?
Speaker 3:That's called bestiality. You can't do that, that's illegal.
Speaker 4:You're a shocker.
Speaker 3:Oh, come on, We've got to make it fun. But I know what you're saying there 100% yeah.
Speaker 4:It's weird.
Speaker 2:It's different, and you said that was from Greek, didn't you? Yeah, greek, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Those guys are unreal, aren't they Really?
Speaker 2:Greek Don't be serious. The Greeks.
Speaker 3:They got everything.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, the original.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Manuscripts and things. It's crazy, when the Roman Empire was around, true, and they For everything. Like half the earth was the Roman Empire. It was Greek and Latin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, true, they got something for everything.
Speaker 4:So it's pretty universal.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 3:What a tangent oh yeah, don't ever do that. Love you, dog, but don't laugh at me.
Speaker 4:I love you guys?
Speaker 3:All right, let's move on.
Speaker 4:Okay, next question what strategies can you use to keep a healthy relationship in everyday life, in and out of the bedroom? I think, you can zip through that no, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you want to have. You want to be connected every day. You want to make sure that you're connecting every single day and not just you know, hey, hey, how you doing, but like, how do we connect? You know, when you're connected to your spouse, you know you feel it. There's a sense of um, security and joy when you're, when you're truly connected to your spouse. And when you feel disconnected from your spouse, you know it's awkward. You know you kind of pass each other in the hallway and you spouse, you know it's awkward. You know you kind of pass each other in the hallway and you're like, okay, hey, like it's weird when you feel disconnected. So, having rituals of connection it's what the Gottman Institute calls them so like we debrief the day every day Like cup of tea, glass of wine on the lounge, just chatting how was your day. Sometimes it goes deep, sometimes it stays shallow, that's okay. Just connect every single day.
Speaker 4:I know my wife will say to me sometimes she's like I don't feel like we're very connected right now, right, and I'm like, but why? Like, we've spent the morning together and for me it's saying, saying, well, okay, she's obviously telling me that it's not. She doesn't feel like we're connected in terms of like, emotionally connected, right. Like maybe we're connected in the fact that we're doing things together, but we're not connected in the fact that we feel like you're saying like that team, at this point, right, we're not on the same page and one can feel connected and the other one doesn't.
Speaker 2:That's the crazy thing like literally two days ago, my wife said to me you've, you sound like you're not feeling connected, but I think we're fine. Yeah, wow and I was like that's kind of actually so it can be. One person can be like yeah, great, we're good, this is awesome. The other one's like I don't feel connected to you. Oh okay, how can we fix that? Like, what do you need from me? Like, oh, I just need some face-to-face time. Okay, cool, let's go out for coffee.
Speaker 4:And I know one of the things we discussed before is like you're saying that intentionality, like being intentional right in planning time with your spouse and you know doing activities with your spouse and even if it is like because everyone uses the excuse of I'm just busy, I'm life is life is busy. You know how was your day? It was busy is the first, like first, response. Most people give 90 of people give nowadays and to be honest with your day can be completely normal and yet you'll still respond with busy and sometimes we need to be intentional then to say let's intentionally plan time to connect and intentionally plan time to have those moments Really Once a week.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to cost you anything but go and connect. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And don't go to the movies and then go home and call that a date night. That's not connection either. Exactly, yeah, and I think when it comes to sex, like you, want it to be regular, you want to find a frequency that works for you both and you want to be able to describe what you need or what you want. So I think there's six types of sex. It's just like terminology that we would use. I don't know how explicit you want to go on this podcast. Go for it.
Speaker 2:You're the love doctor, yeah um, and really we came up with these six types of sex because it's helpful for couples to have terminology that they both understand. So when um, like if it's been a while, like if it's been a long while, and you're like I, really we really want to get back into this, just have, we just call it icebreaker sex, so you're not building it up, you're not putting all the pressure on, you're not. This is not going to be the best moment of our lives together. It's just let's, let's get naked, let's shag, yep then, and then have a cigarette afterwards, oh man.
Speaker 3:You're making me think about Blackadder right now, when he's like back in the day, man, how good is Blackadder Very funny, right?
Speaker 2:So there's icebreaker sex, and then you've got and some of these are a bit controversial, that's okay, this is the terminology that we use, that's all right. Um, and you've got lovemaking, which is like when, when I say to beck, let's make love, she knows what I mean. She knows it's not just icebreaker, it's not just oh, let's slow down, let's enjoy each other mutually pleasurable, mutually beneficial.
Speaker 2:This is wonderful. Um, then you've got, uh, like we call it, five minute window. It's a five minute window. Um. Beck was at a conference years ago and she heard the the speaker say um, that when her husband, you know, is interested, sometimes she'll say to him you got five minutes to minutes to turn me, or I'm going to sleep, but it's all on until the timer runs out. And if he can turn her in the five minutes, then it's going to be a great lovemaking session or whatever happens right.
Speaker 2:But if he can't turn her in five minutes, it's a win-win. She gets more sleep. Yeah.
Speaker 4:True, true.
Speaker 3:I like that. That's good.
Speaker 4:The five-minute window. Absolutely, I like that.
Speaker 2:So what else have you got? You've got red hot sex, and that's obviously. You can't get each other's clothes off fast enough. All the stars have aligned, the kids are somehow all asleep and everything's working.
Speaker 3:Everything's amazing. Oh my goodness, Kids are in bed.
Speaker 2:Kids are in bed, let's go, and you're both in the mood, somehow everything's worked out perfectly and you know duration not important. Yeah, then you've got maintenance sex. Some people push back on this one, but I think maintenance sex is great when you have what's known as a libido differential, when one person wants it more than the other person and you actually just want to love and serve them. You might not be in the mood, you might not really want it, but you're like yeah that's okay, we can do that.
Speaker 2:That's fine, I'll do it for you. That's actually a really beautiful way to serve and love your spouse. It's not coercion, we're not manipulating them. They are giving it as an act of love to you. Great, cool. And look, beck and I have never met a couple who want sex exactly the same level. There's always some kind of differential, some kind of gap in he wants it more, she wants it more whatever. And then the last one is scheduled sex. And this is talked about a lot in the relationship space these days, especially when life is busy and life is full on or you've got young kids and you know, sometimes it's just good to be like, hey, this week, what if we made love or had sex or whatever on Thursday and Saturday or whatever? And then you because one of the so generally it's the woman who needs time to gear up to get ready yeah, I like that Okay.
Speaker 2:Get ready yeah, I like that Okay, to prepare for the moment, and it's generally the guy who wants to know when's it happening next.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, okay. We've got three guys sitting in this room. I could show you that we would be just like. My clothes are already off. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying Just so everyone knows, Shev is sitting here with his clothes on right now he's talking about the time with his wife.
Speaker 4:Great, exactly your clothes are on and we'll stay on.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much, so like terminology, to have conversations and to ask when you ask for it, so your spouse knows what you mean, because then you can set expectations. Yeah, so I can be like to Bec beck, hey, let's make love later. And she'll be like, uh, I've got maintenance in me, that's it, that's all. Oh, yeah, okay, and so what she's doing is just setting setting the bar, setting my expectations, so I don't get, you know, annoyed later on when it wasn't all my hopes and dreams.
Speaker 4:Imagine if we had, like different sound effects for things as well, like in Laugh, like if you heard Let the games begin. Like you know it's on.
Speaker 3:It'd be weird if someone kicked open the door too and said Player 3 has entered the game. That'd be weird.
Speaker 4:I think Laugh would be so good with like sound effects in the background.
Speaker 3:Oh 100%.
Speaker 4:He's so good with like sound effects in the background.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100%, it's so good. So if you want to, you know, keep things healthy in and out of the bedroom, which was the question we were trying to ask trying to answer. This is good Like just have terminology for your sex life. There can be those. There can be whatever you want. We just thought we'd create some that we would use so that couples can use those, or at least talk about it.
Speaker 4:All right, lovely, thank you, that was a long answer for that. That was beautiful.
Speaker 2:We just have to up the rating on this podcast.
Speaker 4:It's one of those little heavenly moments that we just experienced. Sounds like the Simpsons, yeah.
Speaker 3:Does sound a lot like the Simpsons. Yeah, all right. Yeah, that's kind of Sounds like a substance, yeah.
Speaker 4:Alright. Next question Well, why can there be A different discipline and following of rules Within a blended relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, as in blended families, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I think that's what they're going at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. I think that's what they were saying Sure. Because the person that asked it Was blended. Yeah, okay, was he blended himself or she blended himself?
Speaker 4:That's what they were going at yeah, 100%. I think that's what they were saying. Sure, because the person that asked it was blended. Yeah, okay, was he?
Speaker 3:blended himself or she blended himself.
Speaker 4:Well, they could be all blended, you don't know, in this day and age I've got one 16th ginger in me have you One 16th ginger.
Speaker 3:You cool bastard. No, I shouldn't say that that's offensive to ginger people.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm just going to shut up now, Go Dad. We're trying to get as offensive as possible today.
Speaker 3:No, we're not.
Speaker 4:No, we are, it's all jokes.
Speaker 3:We're just having fun, I think, in blended families.
Speaker 2:You've got two different value systems or histories that are trying to also blend value systems or histories that are trying to also blend. So the things that were normal in both families are now having to try and coexist. So I think there can be a lot of challenge and tension when there's expectations that might be different. This is how it always worked in my family, or this is how it always worked in my family.
Speaker 2:And now we're having to try and come and coexist together, and I think that's where having healthy conversation is really powerful, like talk about it, you know, loving kind way, try and keep it from escalating and try and solve the problem together. You know, yeah, it's like two people fighting, look like they're in front of each other, attacking each other, but two people looking at a problem sitting side by side is the way you want to see it. The problem is over here and side by side, we're going to look at the problem together. It's not yours, it's not mine, it's not mine, it's just a problem that we're facing. How do we solve this problem together is the question you want to ask, and know that blended families are going to have those challenges.
Speaker 4:It's funny you should say that, because I feel like even hearing you say that it's such a good conflict management thing as well um I was listening to I think it was richard reeves and he was talking about conflict, um in manhood, specifically, um in the male kind of gender, and he was saying that if you watch men, often when they sit across from each other, it's a very conflicting pose, it's a battle pose, it's like me versus you.
Speaker 4:So in that, the kind of softness, reciprocation, if you're trying to have a very vulnerable conversation, is going to be met with a lot of hard kind of guarded behaviors. But men are the most vulnerable when they're at bars and when they're next to each other yes, right and when they don't feel like someone is standing opposed to them, and whereas when you're next to them, they feel a lot more open and safe and so they tend to be a lot more less guarded and a lot more open to conversation and vulnerability in those spaces. And it was quite interesting because, like you say, rather than standing opposed to each other, when you're looking at those different beliefs or different standoff points, rather than it's like my opinion versus your opinion or my belief versus your belief, it's rather to say, well, there's the belief. How can we work together to say let's use yours and mine and make our own, rather than one has to be better than the other. That's good, that's good.
Speaker 2:So, and I think the way towards resolution is it's compromise, it's flexibility, it's seeing and understanding the other person, rather than just attacking them because they're different or because how they're acting is affecting you. Learning how to understand like listening to truly understand and asking questions to truly understand the person and why that is a value for them or why that is important to them that's going to garner in you compassion and help you to be flexible in your approach.
Speaker 4:Yeah, very cool. So I think that tackles that blended family question, and then we'll move on to the last question for today. Do you think that relationships slash marriages? Counseling should be an openly used and talked about more commonly, even if the relationship is still going strong, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I asked that question before.
Speaker 4:Okay, so that was thrown into the mix there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I'll end off with this one. What do you think is the biggest key factor for people nowadays to develop strong, healthy, long-lasting relationships, outside of friendship, for instance? Actually, let's talk about friendship in general, because I feel like relationship can be. You know, what would you say is the biggest key or factor that you would give? Or a bit of advice.
Speaker 2:I mean it's going to sound obvious, but priorities.
Speaker 4:That's what we were talking about earlier, when you were saying. You're saying I get distracted often.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, sure, like prioritizing each other, like truly Like this is the most important person in my world. Or as a friend, this person is important to me and that means that we, we reach for them. So like, reaching for a friend might be like, hey, let's do coffee on friday. Or reaching for your spouse might be going and sitting next to them on the couch and not having your phone on you and starting a conversation.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, like it's how we reach for people and it's how we respond when they reach for us. Yeah, that's so nice. So if we are prioritizing them, we are responding when they reach and we are choosing to reach.
Speaker 4:Yeah, wow, that's powerful.
Speaker 3:Can I? Could I just Throw you a question In there as well? Go for it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just and this is the honest truth I want to know Just your opinion. Daz On and I was thinking About this throughout the podcast as we've been talking what are your thoughts On the new age? Like people jumping on, like Dating sites, compared to meeting in like the old school way, do you think that's got an effect on relationships nowadays? Like you know what I mean. Like you meet online where, like back in the day, I met my missus at the pub yeah, do you know what I mean? Like we had a few drinks at the back. You know Sorry, yeah, but you know what I mean. Like, yeah, have a few drinks at the pub.
Speaker 2:Do you think that's got like a bit of an effect on relationship nowadays? I don't just ask me, it's a good question. Yeah, to be honest, I don't have a lot of experience. Yeah, I mean, like we got together 28 years ago, married for 26 years, um, yeah, we do speak into that single and dating space a little bit, um, but I don't. I think it's, if you think, if you know who you are and you're looking for the right things, I don't think it really matters.
Speaker 3:Yeah okay.
Speaker 2:Some people have a preference for meeting people in person. Yeah. Some people like the anonymity of online and being able to see a person or have a conversation over text before they meet them in person. I think there's different types of people and they benefit from different ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so it's just personal opinion really.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, yeah, maybe Look there's probably better research out there that would answer that question better than I can. Oh, yeah, that's all right, it's not something that I have a lot of expertise in, to be honest.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, it's not something that I have a lot of expertise in, to be honest one of the things I because this is a question I was, I kind of was addressed on a podcast that I listened to and they interviewed him and the guy said if you go back to before the internet, the way that people met people was in person so if it, was at a bar.
Speaker 4:It took courage for them now to say I need to actually put myself out there and go and up to this person and actually have a conversation and talk to them. And then from there it took effort now for me to then say when can we meet again? Can I get your phone number? And then it was in the days before cell phones. So it would be like, well, you can't phone all the time, you can only phone at certain times Because obviously you weren't at home all the time. So it was effort to then Coordinate this and you know Me consistently putting in the effort To then court someone. And the whole thing behind it Was that in that effort Of me consistently trying and making the effort, it followed through into relationships. And because I was making the effort in the effort, it followed through into relationships. And because I was making the effort in the beginning and it was harder and it was more of me to then put into this, nowadays it's very flash in the pan because it's very quick. People match on Tinder.
Speaker 4:The next day they go on a date, they maybe hook up and it's gone.
Speaker 3:And that's what I find with dating sites, exactly what you were saying it cuts out a lot of the bullshit. Do you know what I mean? Because people put what they like, what they want, blah, blah, blah. All that where, as Shane said, when you go to the pub, you literally have to start from scratch. What do you like, what are you interested in, what are your hobbies? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Where, when you're online, you cut all that shit out.
Speaker 4:But in that like, is it not? I mean the question is it not more knowledgeable in finding that out in person, before you then say right, let's go on a date?
Speaker 3:Well, I think so. My personal opinion. I would love to do that, I mean. I prefer in person yeah Same here. Yeah Same here. That's me.
Speaker 2:You mean?
Speaker 3:I can see the value.
Speaker 2:Of what that person's saying About the effort. Yeah. You know 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, when there was landlines and you.
Speaker 3:I'm not home I swear to God I'm not home, just leave a message.
Speaker 2:On my voicemail machine. Yeah, I'll call you back. I swear to God yeah.
Speaker 4:Totally, totally but yeah, it was a lot more effort.
Speaker 2:That's a good point though. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 4:And so when you put the effort in the early stages, it transgressed all the way through the relationship. Right there's pursuit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:There was intentionality in the beginning, and therefore the intentionality then progressed through.
Speaker 2:I love that. When there's consistent pursuit of each other, there's the basis for a really great relationship. Because we're not letting it. Great relationship because we're not letting it. You know we're not taking them for granted, we're not just like yeah yeah yeah, and it was my wife.
Speaker 4:My wife sent me this um clip on instagram the other day. It was so cute, but she thought it was a cute one, but it's actually so. It was really um, eye-opening to me. And it was really eye-opening to me and it was this wife.
Speaker 4:She was filming her husband, like giving the daughter a bit of a check on their attitude. Oh yeah, and he's standing at her door and he's saying like she's obviously done something and she was like three years old or four years old or something like that. She was tiny and the wife was filming and the husband's like I want you to know that mom is number one in my life and in this household and she will always be number one and she is always right. So you need to know that she will always be the one that I go to and the one that I listen to before you. So you need to make sure that when mom speaks, you listen.
Speaker 4:Wow, and it was just this. What I loved about it was that he was teaching her that as a husband, you value your wife, right, and even though you have a daughter, like I hate when people think, like when they have a kid, like that kid becomes the priority. The world, the world, and it's beautiful. Like to have a child, don't get me wrong, but it shouldn't come at the cost of your relationship. Very good that's right.
Speaker 3:Very well said.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 3:I'm being serious when I say that too. That was actually well put.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good, well put, because if your kids take priority, then your relationship goes to shit Exactly.
Speaker 3:It doesn't last. It'll never last.
Speaker 4:Exactly right. And then, when your kids do go out and start to live their own life, what are you left with?
Speaker 2:Right, and if you don't prioritize your marriage while your kids are at home?
Speaker 4:then your kids suffer. Interesting.
Speaker 2:Because then you have a very fractured or disconnected or you blow up the whole marriage because the kids now kids are exhausting. They take a lot of time and energy and love and money and all that stuff definitely. But if you don't prioritize your marriage it's going to affect your kids in a negative way. If your kids take priority, that's going to affect them negatively. But if your marriage takes priority, your kids are going to be blessed. I like that Because mom and dad staying at home, mom and dad in love, is one of the best gifts you can give to your kids.
Speaker 4:I mean, I look at people nowadays and like, when you say, like, tell us about your parents, and they're like, oh, they've been married for X amount of years and you know they still love each other so much, it's like you sit there and you go, wow, you're so lucky, right, so lucky. And the kind of people that they are are generally like the nicest, like most grounded people that you could possibly know. And that's not to say that's a very generalization, of course, because there's people that come from fractured homes that are just as grounded and have done a lot of work to make it that way. Yes, um, you know, but yeah, generally it just sets such a beautiful platform up for the kids then to grow from and then to kind of spring from.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, yeah, totally Very, very cool. I think that's all the questions, daz, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm sweet.
Speaker 4:I'm happy, so you covered a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have, we have, yeah, hopefully, so you covered a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we have we have?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Hopefully the listeners got a good bunch of nuggets out of that one. I love to use the phrase nuggets because yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, honestly, if you want any information, where do we catch you at Daz to ask questions?
Speaker 2:Just look for, just do a search for the Happy Marriage, yep, thehappymarriagecomau, or check me out on Insta TikTok.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sweet. So if you need any questions listeners, go to the love doctor. Happy Marriage.
Speaker 4:The man himself. Yep, Mr Darren Chapman.
Speaker 2:Oh see, I want that to be my theme song, that to be your theme song. That's so good, that's awesome. If we can play that every time I come in the door at home, that would be the best I got you.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for obviously coming on the podcast and sharing.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me guys Absolutely love having you.
Speaker 4:Thank you for also all your efforts on the background. I know obviously I've said this to you personally, but thank you for your efforts when it comes to just being the voice of Live Alive On. I come to you and have a lot of discussion out of this as well and pick your brain. So thank you for being the voice of reason in my life sometimes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really appreciate it. And yeah, you've pretty much said what I wanted to say. Yeah, no, I beat you to it all the time, it's fine.
Speaker 4:I'm sure, I'm almost sure we will have you on again because, like we say, we've covered a lot but there's still so much to cover Definitely, and I would love to have you on again. So that's definitely something for the future and listeners to look forward to.
Speaker 3:Send in more questions. I was just about to say. If any listeners out there want to ask Darren some questions, get Instagram and our Facebook and, yeah, throw us a message of any questions you want to ask.
Speaker 4:What are our handles? Shiv, Give us the handles.
Speaker 3:Our handles are leavealotonpodcast at Instagram.
Speaker 4:Dot com, dot com. No, that's not a handle.
Speaker 3:No At leavealotonpodcast yeah at leavealotonpodcast and the Facebook one is leavealotonpodcast.
Speaker 4:Just type that into this little hourglass and your little side project of TikTok as well, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm still trying to figure out how to use TikTok You'll be figuring it out for a while. Trust me, I don't really like it but hey, the more time we can get our name out there, the better.
Speaker 4:Yeah, check us out on TikTok, yeah give us a follow, get our name out there. We're really stoked, um, as of the recording of this. We went over 500 downloads on our podcast so far. So, yeah, we're really grateful to everyone who has listened, contributed um, shared, um. We would like to give you guys a round of applause, so thank you very much thank you to everyone.
Speaker 4:Um, we really appreciate you. Um, we started this journey with one thing in mind and that was just to make a difference and really just create a safe space for everyone just to grow and share, and so we're really excited because the feedback we are getting is that it is exactly what we're wanting.
Speaker 3:A lot of people I've heard from have said that they've put on our podcast and they can relate to some of the stuff that the couple of guests we have had on.
Speaker 4:So good for them. So, Daz, thank you so much for being a part of that with us.
Speaker 2:Pleasure. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4:Thanks, guys, it was awesome, and thank you for the journey that you are obviously doing in terms of the happy marriage. Obviously, I know that it's a great thing Me and my wife actually signed up to do one of your workshops, workshops, woo Come on.
Speaker 3:Oh, there you go. Yeah, you're going to get one.
Speaker 4:Obviously we want to, like you said, even though we're in a good space, we want to make sure that our relationship stays that way, Right invest. So, we're investing into our relationship. Love it. Yeah if anyone is looking, all your details, like you say, with workshops and those kind of things will be either in your newsletter or on your website or instagram page. So get out there, follow the happy marriage, mr darren chapman.
Speaker 3:Thank you again so much for being with us we really appreciate you and last time the love doctor he didn't even.
Speaker 4:I'm waiting to see like two people run up and like hug each other. He's got the heart to call me a child.
Speaker 5:He's got the heart to say I'm immature he loves that thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love this. No, that's awesome. No, take it easy, check it out our Instagram and Facebook and we'll catch you on the next episode thank you.
Speaker 4:Shiv. Thank you, shana, and from us.
Speaker 3:Obviously let's leave a lot on. Let's leave a lot on.
Speaker 4:Thank you very much. All right, bye, bye.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for listening. We hope you've managed to gain some insight from today's episode. Jump onto our socials and reach out, and until next time, wherever you are, let's leave a light on.