Leave A Light On Podcast
Welcome to "Leave A Light On Podcast," the podcast that brings you inspiring stories of ordinary people overcoming extraordinary challenges in their lives. Join us as we delve into the lives of individuals from all walks of life, exploring the adversities they face and the resilience they demonstrate in overcoming them.
In each episode, we'll introduce you to a new guest—a parent, a teacher, a healthcare worker, a student, a veteran, or perhaps your neighbor next door. Through heartfelt interviews and candid conversations, we'll uncover the personal battles they've fought, whether it's overcoming illness, navigating through loss, breaking free from addiction, or facing societal barriers.
From tales of triumph over adversity to stories of perseverance in the face of hardship, "Leave a Light On Podcast" celebrates the human spirit and the strength found within each of us. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and most importantly, you'll be inspired by the resilience and determination of these everyday people who refuse to be defined by their struggles.
So, tune in and join us on this journey of hope, empowerment, and the celebration of the human spirit. Because in the end, it's the stories of everyday people that remind us all that we are capable of overcoming anything life throws our way.
Leave A Light On Podcast
Episode 9 - Mindful Moments with Mel: Exploring ADHD and Trauma
Unlock the secrets to a healthier mind with our exciting new segment, "Mindful Moments with Mel." Join us as we welcome Mel Spinks, a seasoned psychologist with seven years of experience, who brings her wealth of knowledge to our listeners. Mel shares her journey, her passion for diagnostics and therapy, and gives us a sneak peek into her innovative online multidisciplinary company, Telethrive, aiming to enhance mental well-being. This episode sets the stage for future insights and guidance on a variety of mental health topics, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in personal growth and understanding.
Ever wondered how ADHD intersects with trauma? We explore this complex topic, emphasizing the importance of professional advice and thorough assessments. Learn about the genetic nature of ADHD, the different types, and the often-overlooked issue of underdiagnosis in girls. We also discuss how early childhood trauma can mimic ADHD symptoms, complicating accurate diagnosis. This conversation is crucial for anyone seeking to understand the nuances of mental health and the individualized care necessary for those affected by these conditions. Tune in for a deep dive into the intricacies of ADHD and trauma, and gain a better understanding of how to navigate these challenges.
Check out our socials on Instagram and Facebook at LeaveALightOnPodcast, and connect with us there.
Share your stories with us and lets Leave a Light On
Hello and welcome to Leave a Light On Podcast, a show that looks to tackle the everyday struggles in our everyday lives. It's time to shed some light on it. Leave a light on podcasts not a licensed mental health service. It shouldn't be substituted for professional advice or treatment. Things discussed in this podcast are general in nature and may be of a sensitive nature. If you're struggling, please seek professional help or contact Lifeline on 13 11 14. Here's your hosts Shane and Shiv.
Speaker 3:Hey, hey, welcome to another episode of Live and Learn on Podcast with one of your hosts, Shiv, and alongside me today is Shaino. How are you?
Speaker 4:feeling buddy. I'm feeling good, shiv. Thank you very much. Also, I'd like to point out I'm alongside you every episode.
Speaker 3:I know, I know I've got to stop saying that you know.
Speaker 4:I'm going to have to start thinking of some new material. New material, that's all right, that's a good one.
Speaker 3:I'm going to have to start downloading some new podcasts. Excellent. That's the intro. Are you really excited about this episode today?
Speaker 4:Yes, really excited as we are on every episode.
Speaker 3:We are, I'm excited to throw you something different at you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, where was the curveball?
Speaker 3:The curveball is gone. It's left the building. That was a straight knuckleball, it was. The team has relocated Straight down the middle. No, but seriously, this is really up my alley, this episode.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it actually it's the one time. I'll probably agree with you. It probably is right up your alley. It's good and I'm really excited about today's episode, as I am always, but I think today is the start of something new, actually for Leave it Out On podcast.
Speaker 3:Which I'm super keen for. Yeah, just some of the work that you've put in for this little segment.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Is pretty cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it's going to be great and I think the listeners are not only going to be really excited about, obviously, this episode, but then also I think there's a lot more scope for what comes in the future.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a rabbit hole of stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's a rabbit hole of stuff and that just opens up obviously where we're going with today. And so, without kind of maybe beating around the bush too much, I'd like to obviously say that today is the start of a new segment for Leave a Light On Podcast Shiv.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100% it is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's a great one. So it's a new segment that we're going to start and it's one of many that we're going to do, and so, without further ado, no, we're not going to introduce the guests.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:Because we're going to first Do the thing yeah. Yeah, we've, yeah, yeah. Like I said, it's something really exciting, shiv, fair enough, yeah, really exciting. So we've actually, because it's a new segment. This new segment has actually got its own little theme song within, obviously, the Leave a Light On segment. So, without further ado, this is the first episode. Hit that With the segment of Mindful Moments, with Mel. Get into it, shev, let's go. This is awesome. Take a leap.
Speaker 7:Mindful moments Ooh yeah. With Mel Feeling so good, got a story to tell. Gonna guide your mind, help your soul as well. Mindful moments with Mel In the groove, we dwell, ooh.
Speaker 6:Relax, refresh, reset your inner vibe. Dr Mel's here to help. Let's enjoy the ride With a funky beat to lift you high.
Speaker 7:Mindful moments with Mel. Sound waves don't lie. Mindful moments, ooh yeah. With Mel Feeling so good, got a story to tell. Gonna, guide your mind, help your soul as well. Mindful moments with Mel In the booth with Mel Awesome.
Speaker 4:So, without further ado, welcome Mel to the Leave it Out On podcast.
Speaker 5:Thanks for having me. It's awesome, it's awesome.
Speaker 4:It's awesome. We're really excited. As you've obviously said, and you would have heard, you couldn't stop smiling the whole way through that as well.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no, I love that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3:Congratulations on the little jingle. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4:You're actually the first person we've had on that's got their own little jingle.
Speaker 5:I feel really special no-transcript.
Speaker 4:That, when we started, we said we wanted to do is get someone like you that is going to come on for not just one episode but is going to be something that's going to be consistently coming on, because there is so much that we can do in this. So thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you Really appreciate having you on here. This is awesome because it is a rabbit hole of stuff that we could be going through with you on each different episode we do together. Yeah. And shedding a light on all the stuff that you do.
Speaker 5:Yeah, thank you. This is awesome, great. I'm really happy to be here and share, you know, the passion around mental health and speak about the important things, so it should be great.
Speaker 4:It's going to be great. Yeah, we're really excited. So obviously, let's start off with obvious Tell us who you are, mel, tell the listeners who you are and let's talk about who is Mel.
Speaker 5:Okay, well, there's many layers to that, but I am a psychologist, I'm a registered psychologist and I've been in the mental health space for about seven years now and within that I've really taken an interest in the diagnostic space of psychology.
Speaker 4:But I also do ongoing therapy as well space of psychology, but I also do ongoing therapy as well, yeah, that's great, that's awesome, and obviously you, in the space that you're talking about, you now started your own business, which is called Teletrav. Yeah, so tell us about Teletrav and what that entails.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so Teletrav is. It's a multidisciplinary company and we offer online services and in clinic services for not only psychology but speech pathology, dietetics, some occupational therapy and counseling as well that's awesome yeah, yeah, very cool.
Speaker 4:You cover it all, which is really cool, yeah yeah, it must be fascinating to be a psychologist because, like you know, I sometimes think what the heck is going on in my brain. But you actually know heck is going on in my brain, but you actually know what is going on in your brain when you're thinking that it's quite fascinating, we're not mind readers.
Speaker 3:Does that do your head in, though? Like I know that, like when you sit down with someone and you like talk to them about their problems, do you take that stuff away with you when you leave work, like does that get in your head? No, no, yeah, okay.
Speaker 5:Some people can. I think if there's a psychologist who's going through something and you have a client who has a similar experience, that might be very difficult. Yeah okay, but no, for the most part I really took on. When people come to you for therapy, you really see them as being a good person. You know they've come and they're like I've got issues, I need to work through those and they're really wanting to work on themselves and you kind of approach that with such like love for those people, because you're like, wow, like I really want to help this person, and so I tend to walk away from it going okay, did I help that person?
Speaker 5:and if I did, you know that's a win yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 4:And um, I think the lovely thing, like you say, is like for us we're also trying to kind of change the stigmatism on therapy. Like you're saying, like you're looking at it as such a positive space and that's what we're trying to say is that it's so helpful, whereas a lot of people have had this image of therapy like you only go to therapy when you're like down in the dumps, like when you're battling the people that are going to. They weak, they, you know they, they need the help, they can't do it on their own, and so there's a stigmatism that if you're going to therapy like you're in a weak person and we're like, no, you're wanting to get better, to me that's showing strength yeah.
Speaker 5:So if it actually takes like you can talk to anyone and and they'll always be going through something and they won't say it to you, and if you think about how much they struggle to tell their friends, imagine the courage it takes to come and tell a stranger what's going on with you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah yeah, it's quite interesting, hey, um, but yeah, beautiful space that you're working in and obviously um something that we're really passionate about and the fact that your message and your industry is probably at the forefront of um, pioneering this new generation that's coming through because it is such a battle.
Speaker 4:When it comes to the psychology side of things, when we look at kids nowadays, there's so many things from like ADHD and I use ADHD because that's actually going to be the main focus for today. Spoiler alert. So ADHD. There's other things like bulimia, which is all. Even though there might be external factors like addiction and those kind of things. They're all start in your head, so it's all starting in the mental side of things, and so for us, we were saying a psychologist is literally like at the forefront of battling these kind of things. So you really hold such an important space and we want to highlight that. We want to highlight the incredible work that you do and the amazing kind of aspects and little intricacies that you have to do in order to help someone.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so thank you.
Speaker 5:Well, thank you, because I mean, yeah, like it's an important role. It definitely is, but we couldn't do what we do without the support of everyone else as well, because coming to see someone once a week, once a fortnight, however long you come and see them, that's great. But if you're not able to access support outside of that, you know when clients are with me, you know they have breakthroughs, but then they've got the rest of the week or the rest of the fortnight that they've got to continue to do that, and if they've, got support.
Speaker 5:You know, these podcasts, our counsellors, the schools, all the people who are doing things to enhance mental health are only helping us.
Speaker 3:Which is awesome to be a part of, because that was mine and Shane's original plan was to, you know, spread the word and get our podcast out there to let people know that it's all right. Do you know what I mean? So that was our original plan.
Speaker 4:you know it's just like you say, I like to look at it as like a utility belt. So you know, you're one kind of little notch on that utility belt and people just need to keep adding, because the more you add, the more weapons you have to fight this.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so Very well put. Thank you, I like that. Thank you Thank you.
Speaker 5:I appreciate it when we talk about that, that's like Jeez Sorry.
Speaker 4:I've got to pump myself up a bit.
Speaker 3:He won't be able to fit out the door, don't you?
Speaker 5:That's awesome, yeah we call that protective factors, yeah. Things that protect a person from declining in their mental health.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and that's amazing, so very important space. So let's kind of dive into today's episodes a little bit, because obviously, like I said, this is going to be an ongoing thing for us and obviously we're excited to introduce the world to Mindful Moments, which is going to be your… Mindful Moments with Mel. Mindful Moments with Mel, so that's your little segment in the Leave a Light On podcast, which you're super stoked with in your head.
Speaker 5:I am smiling yeah.
Speaker 4:Basically, the reason why we came up with that and obviously, like we discussed, was that you obviously deal with the mind and so, obviously, kind of pointing out the obvious there, but you're dealing with the mind, but in that, obviously, these mindful moments of creating a space where we can think and create positive awareness into these spaces that need to change in order for us to get better, and so we're creating one moment where we're focusing on building healthy minds, and so we're having these mindful moments with Mel, and so thank you for building the segment with us, because today is one, specifically, that we're going to kind of touch on.
Speaker 4:And let me just start off by saying this as well I know we say this with all our guests, but, mel, obviously you are a medical professional in this industry. At the same time, every situation is different. So you're going to talk on a very broad spectrum of knowledge that you obviously have come to terms with, but we also do encourage people out there who are listening. If some of this resonates with you, please do go seek your own medical professional people out there who are listening. If some of this resonates with you, please do go seek your own medical professional to either verify or what's the term I'm looking for.
Speaker 3:It's a backup, yeah.
Speaker 4:Either verify this or, you know, negate it in essence.
Speaker 5:Investigate.
Speaker 4:Investigate. Yeah, so do your own investigation into it, rather than take our word as because we all know Dr Google is out there and people tend to think Dr Google's word for it and you know, everyone's got.
Speaker 3:I do that when I've got the flu. Yeah, yeah, and the man flu is a real thing too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and then you come to me and think you've got cancer or something like that. You know.
Speaker 3:No, I don't.
Speaker 4:But I do think I'm dying. So I just I want to make that very clear Like don't obviously we're going to talk in the medical field here, but I just I do encourage everyone if there's anything that resonates with you in this, please do go and seek your own professional help and investigate in your own terms, because everyone can be so different and unique. So I know you would a hundred percent back me up on that.
Speaker 5:Yes, no, absolutely agree. And what people tend to do is they resonate with symptoms and they go okay. So that must explain me. Yes, and they forget about everything else that it could be.
Speaker 4:Wonderful.
Speaker 3:Oh damn, I got five out of those six symptoms yeah exactly.
Speaker 4:So, without further ado, let's jump into today's one, and we're going to be touching on the topic of ADHD. So give us a kind of broad spectrum of what ADHD is.
Speaker 5:Okay, so ADHD is classified as a neurodevelopmental disorder. Now, that is the clinical term and what that means is that a person is born with whatever they have in their brain and it is lifelong and unchanging, so we can't change it. People tend to go, oh, can we fix that? You can't fix it. It's who you are.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:There are many different types, or there are two types. Specifically, you can have inattentive ADHD. That describes someone who is easily distracted. They tend to lose things, they can't focus and they procrastinate, and then we've got hyperactive impulsive. Those are just some symptoms.
Speaker 4:Oh, don't worry, I'm looking at you, jeff.
Speaker 5:And then we've got hyperactive and impulsive and this is probably more what everyone sees as ADHD, because these are the symptoms that people can see. And you know we can't sit still, we're restless, we're moving, we're standing when we should be sitting and we're walking around. You can have inattentive A little of both and you can have inattentive yeah, you can have inattentive, you can have hyperactive impulsive. We can have what we call a combined diagnosis. And that's when you have symptoms of both.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I mean, like you said, those three are pretty key and obviously I think for you, shiv, I've got a combination, you've got combo for sure. But I just want to touch on, obviously, what you said there when it came to the fact that it's genetic. Does that mean that someone who has ADHD is born with it and there's nothing they can do? It's just that's the roll of the cards and unfortunately you dealt with it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think, yes, like you can't change it, but I don't think it's necessarily an unfortunate thing. Okay, there's a lot of things, a lot of good things, that can come from having ADHD, once you have an awareness that that's what you have. You can really utilise some of the things.
Speaker 3:She'll be laughing at me. I'm really taking it all in. I really am. This is good stuff to know.
Speaker 5:But with your diagnosis there's an acceptance that you can have as well. But yeah, you are born with it. You can't change it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably the key thing that you said there is identifying that you have it, accepting it and then realizing that life can still go on with it.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's 100% okay. It's not like. It's like a terminal illness that's going to destroy you.
Speaker 5:No.
Speaker 4:And there's ways to manage it, which we'll get into later, obviously as well. But obviously this is something that the stat that came out was that it said around one in every 20 Australians has ADHD. That's a massive kind of stat if you think about it. It also talks about it's more common in boys and I love how you just crinkled your nose because I know exactly where you're going to go with this and the reason they say that is because it's underdiagnosed in girls. So it's not to say that girls don't have it, it's just to say that it's underdiagnosed in girls. Tell us a little bit more about the stat and why you think that with girls it's more underdiagnosed than boys.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm glad you said that. So yes, it's more commonly diagnosed in males because females tend to mask. They've done some studies this isn't just me talking about my experience they have done studies that have shown that males tend to not mask as much as females. They tend to accept that that's who they are and kind of run with it a little bit more than females, whereas females tend to internalise their symptoms and stop themselves from, say, having the restlessness and the hyperactive behaviours in schools, universities, in their workplace, and so people don't go, oh, you might have ADHD. And so people don't go, oh, you might have ADHD. So we tend to not see it in females until they have an awareness themselves and then they're coming and seeing us as adults and they have a lot of grief around the loss of what they could have had in childhood had they been diagnosed earlier in life.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so there's a lot more than to deal with and kind of unpack.
Speaker 4:Obviously now, when they've finally taken the step to come and get help, then if they had just come earlier and then realized that it was just ADHD, that was something they could have just lived with as normal and just managed as they'd gone. It's very interesting in that aspect and I think one of the like you say with the whole masking things, this is probably your opinion more than it is obviously factual or medical. Do you feel that that's generally because with women obviously they're a lot more emotional, so they think with their emotions they feel things more, so the embarrassment side of things is a lot more prevalent, whereas with guys it's like, oh, I can't change it, so I'm just going to kind of get on with life and move on. And the reason why I say that is because if guys have disagreements, for instance, they have dealt like, let's just say Sheva and I have a disagreement, we have an argument or we'll have a punch up- Once it's over, I'd just we have an argument or we'll have a punch up Once it's over.
Speaker 4:I just let the listeners know I'll definitely win for that. South Africa versus Australia.
Speaker 3:Here You're just going to punch my waist, are you Cheeky? Absolutely cheeky.
Speaker 4:Keep going. Sorry, get your step ladder, don't worry. So if we have a fight, we have a punch up, we have an argument. Once that's finished, that is that chapter closed for us. We move on. We can get the next day, we can be as if nothing ever happened and we move on and it's like we accept it. It's just kind of that's the norm, whereas women tend to feel things a lot more, and that's why things like bullying in school is a lot more prevalent in females and it lasts longer than it does with boys. Whereas boys is a lot more physical, girls are a lot more emotional bullying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they tend to put up their walls a lot more.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so yeah, maybe your opinion on that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so like there is probably a number of answers that I could give you here, it is a very broad question. Yeah. But females tend to internalize more. Okay, and when we internalize, we then self-reflect and go, oh, what's wrong with me, what did I do wrong? Or then blame another person, because blaming is easier than accepting. So males, when you say like punch-up, like females, generally don't get in punch ups.
Speaker 5:Now this is again like I'm speaking very generally In general, yes, but yeah, we do tend to take things on more. We notice more when we're different. We tend to be a bit quieter in that and so internalising and then, I guess, painting a picture of ourselves. That's not necessarily true. It really affects our sense of self-worth, our self-esteem and, I guess, like how we are with other people. So we are more emotional in some aspects and when I say this like males can be emotional too.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, it's a very general statement. Absolutely yeah, that's what I said.
Speaker 5:So yeah, females, we are more emotional. I don't know that that's why we're not diagnosed as often. I would say it's probably more that we don't want to stand out and be different otherwise we don't want to stand out and be different Otherwise we don't feel accepted.
Speaker 4:Okay, do you think that's changing now with kind of the whole movement of like it's okay to be unique, it's okay to be different?
Speaker 5:I think we're getting there. I think we've got a long way to go. I think people are getting better at accepting themselves, but I don't know that they're confident enough to be who they truly are in front of others, because there's still a lot of social expectation on people and still a lot of negative self-talk that comes with being different. Yeah, and how long can you hold on to something that is different and not get the acceptance of others? So if you're not getting accepted, then you go home, you feel bad and you change.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, that's key.
Speaker 3:It's only been in the last few years that I've actually just been starting to speak out about it as well. Do you know what I mean? Like I've just it's one of those subjects with me personally where I've just let it go by the wayside. I haven't announced that I do have it, but it's been in the last six years, seven years, that I've just started going. You know what I've got it. Do you know what I mean? Like I've actually started talking about it. Hence the reason why I wanted to do this podcast with you.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean people out there, as mel said, that do have it, that don't speak up, um, and I wanted to get that awareness out there for this condition yeah, yeah yeah but it's only been the last seven years I've been starting to talk about it, so there's a lot of shame around it it is, yeah, exactly what you said before, mel, about being different not being accepted. Um, and that's how I felt going through school yeah so yeah, sorry, keep going.
Speaker 4:No, that's fine. I mean, obviously we spoke about. Adhd is obviously a genetic disorder that we spoke about, that was passed on from or passed down from birth.
Speaker 5:So there's a genetic link.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 5:If you have parents who have it, you are more likely or family members, I should say you're more likely to have a diagnosis of ADHD. Okay, family members. I should say you're more likely to have a diagnosis of ADHD. If you don't have parents with ADHD, you can still have it. So, there are going to be other factors. There could be environmental factors.
Speaker 4:I was going to say let's talk about some of those factors. What are some of the factors that can contribute to potentially the genetic side of things? Adhd?
Speaker 5:Do you mean so?
Speaker 4:for instance, one of the ones we spoke about before this was maternal smoking during pregnancy Sometimes leads to the fact that it could bring early onset ADHD in children.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so when you say early onset, it's ADHD, like we said, is you're born with it. It may increase your likelihood. Yeah, likelihood of having ADHD once born. So smoking, alcohol, low birth weight or premature birth, they all kind of contribute to you having a more likelihood of developing ADHD. Or then like the genetic factors as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's one of those things that I suppose you can delve into so many different areas, but, like you said, you could do none of those things and still have it. So when we say that obviously, if your kid maybe has ADHD, you could have done none of that and still be okay with the fact that it's not your fault, it's not something that you've done.
Speaker 5:I find people parents tend to blame themselves. Yes. Particularly parents if they have ADHD. I've had people come and say, oh, maybe I won't have children because I don't want to pass this on to them, and then children who have been diagnosed and parents have it and they haven't accepted their own diagnosis.
Speaker 5:That's a hard space to live in, but you can not have parents I mean sorry. You can have parents who don't have ADHD and still have it, so you can't just go oh, yeah, yeah, this one thing caused my child to have adhd yeah, it's, it's a combination of a lot of things, it's not just one particular thing, like we say um that's what you eat as well.
Speaker 4:Too well, there's a few things yeah like, obviously, some of the things that we spoke about as well. Um, when it comes to other environmental factors, like you mentioned, yeah, um, so, um, some of the things that I kind of researched before this toxins, so chemicals like lead, affect brain development. Yeah, so, if you happen to work in a lead pencil factory, that's probably what's wrong with me.
Speaker 3:I used to chew on lead pencils, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:Obviously the home environment if there's a lot of conflict in the home.
Speaker 5:Stress.
Speaker 4:Which to me is quite an interesting one, because I'll get onto that. But then the big one, which I think is quite prevalent, is the early childhood trauma side of things.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because a child who experiences trauma is more likely to show features consistent with ADHD.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's true, Trauma can look like ADHD, and so it is a difficult space to go. Well, is this trauma or is this ADHD? And that's where our assessment process is really important, and we would also be looking at genetic factors as well. And then how long the symptoms have been there. For If the trauma has happened really early on in life, say in like very early development, it can be very tricky If we have a 9 or a 10-year-old come in and they're like oh you know, those symptoms only happened after the trauma. We may attribute them more to trauma rather than ADHD. We would still make sure that we thoroughly investigated to make sure we weren't going oh you know, they have trauma, so they can't have ADHD. Because that's not true. Yeah, I would say, if they have experienced trauma and they do have ADHD, their regulation will be a lot more difficult do have ADHD.
Speaker 4:their regulation will be a lot more difficult and I think trauma can look so different to certain individuals. It's not necessarily that you have to have this big traumatic laugh event that's affected you. It could be something so small to me, but to my child it could be massive.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So it's a very broad kind of range that you need to look at when it comes to trauma Because, like we just said, I could think that something was just so small and just irrelevant, but to my child they might think it's like their world is falling down.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I mean children for the most part are very resilient. Yeah, and I mean children, for the most part, are very resilient. They can experience traumatic things and they can come back from it quite well. Not always, but when you think about it this way, have you ever heard like and people usually say this about their pets, but you know to your child you're their whole world, like.
Speaker 5:Their parents are everything. They teach them, they're there for them emotionally, they spend their whole day wanting to come home and see them. And adults have so much going on in their lives. They've got work, they've got friends, they've got relationship difficulties. We tend to forget that a child's world is so small and parents are, you know, the biggest thing to them, and so when something happens to a child, they're looking to their parents for that. You know it's going to be okay, I'm going to take care of you emotionally. If we don't recognize how big it is to a child, that something in their world has been disrupted and we continue on the way we always did and don't acknowledge that, that can be extremely traumatic for a child.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Yeah, that's great. I really like the way you put that. That's really profound. Let's look at obviously. Obviously we spoke about some of the science that we can attribute to it, and one of the things I want to maybe touch on because it's maybe not as studied five years ago as it should be now is technology and how that contributes to obviously onset ADHD and diagnosis the positive diagnosis and ADHD. Your opinion in terms of technology, the influence it's having in that space, what would you say is kind of the spectrum of technology when it comes to that, Is it positive, Is it negative?
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's a hard question. It can be both. Um, when we've got ADHD, um, we people talk a lot about hyper-focus. Um, we have our special interests and things that we want to pay attention to. So most people with ADHD will go, yeah, like I won't focus, but then, if I really like it, I can sit there for hours and just do it, so with children. That's me. I just want to chuck that in there, that's me.
Speaker 3:So you put Lego in front of me.
Speaker 5:Lego.
Speaker 3:I can sit there for literally days on end and just build Lego. Yeah, that's my sort of hyper focus, and when I went through a heap of stuff a few months ago, that's what I did and it was awesome yeah. Just put my headphones on and just yeah, lego was awesome.
Speaker 5:And I will have parents come in to me and say, oh, they say they can't focus and they're distracted, but I can sit them in front of the iPad or sit them in front of Lego and they will build things for hours.
Speaker 5:So I don't think they have ADHD, but they can still have ADHD because the thing that people are lacking in the brain is without getting too technical, just feel good hormones that motivate you to keep on going. So when we're putting Lego together, we're experiencing the dopamine. Every time we kind of get it right, we fix it, we're happy, the same as when we're playing Minecraft or Roblox you know, winning those games that provides the dopamine hit that sometimes can be deficient in neurodevelopmental, so it's hard to say.
Speaker 5:I don't think it contributes to an ADHD diagnosis, but the way that you use technology is going to be different if there's ADHD present.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just something that you were obviously talking about dopamine there, and that's quite a big one because, you know, in life I think every human being looks for like these dopamine hits, basically for anyone who doesn't know what dopamine is, it's that happy feeling, that happy emotion. It's the thing that when you do something, that warm, fuzzy feeling, inside of you that you're just like.
Speaker 5:I love this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's good, and so you know life is all about yeah. Chocolate. Yeah, chocolate's a big one, mine's candy yeah.
Speaker 5:Love candy, yeah Like sorry to interject here, but that's why we've got binge eating and ADHD. That's good.
Speaker 4:Well, that's what addiction is Addiction's good. Well, that's what addiction is. Addiction is all about finding these like hits of dopamine and trying to get them without actually the effort of you know me doing something to get them. I'm kind of just relying on these external factors to give me these dopamine hits?
Speaker 5:yep well, that's a whole. Another jump in the head that's a whole another podcast, but that's all right.
Speaker 4:But dopamine hits, like you're saying, when it comes to kids is is such a thing, and I find that with technology, what's happening is they're getting these hits so much easier and more frequent that it becomes very desensitizing to them. So, for instance, they need more, and so they need to game longer in order to get the same dopamine hit, or they need to, you know, play a different game that you know is more violent, or more, you know, adrenaline filled, or whatever the case is, in order to get these dopamine hits, and so they're desensitizing themselves that when they come off it, they don't know how to still get these dopamine levels.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I think that that speaks to dysregulation that comes. So when we're away from the things that make us feel good, we struggle to regulate. Um, a child can't conceptualize, they don't have cognitive capacity to understand why they're feeling the way that they feel. Um, all they know is that feels good, I like playing it, and why can't I have it? So when it's taken away, particularly when it's taken away without notice, you know it does cause, disrupt and upset.
Speaker 3:Sorry, sorry. I've got hay fever. I do. My allergies are playing up. That's all right. Oh, my goodness, sorry, I do apologise. Apologise to the listeners.
Speaker 5:So yeah, so they've got to. I guess, like finding other ways to get dopamine can be tricky, particularly when we have, you know, an addiction around gaming or technology, which a child who has ADHD? That is an addictive behaviour. It is an addiction. And you or technology, which a child who has ADHD? That is an addictive behavior, it is an addiction. And you can have gaming addiction or technology addiction as a child and you are more likely to have that if you have ADHD, in the same way that you are more likely to be addicted to drugs and alcohol in adulthood, and same as binge eating as well. You know, that's a form of like.
Speaker 4:That dopamine.
Speaker 3:Gambling as well. Any addiction, any addiction, yeah, any addiction.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 3:I've heard of that. You know what I mean like gambling.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, I mean, ask any addict. That's why they did it. Yeah, any addict. If you ask them, obviously they're like why did you do it? It was like, well, I needed a heart. Yeah, very interesting kind of concept that I was listening to a podcast you and I were chatting about. This was that they referred to this like dopamine pool that we kind of have, if we look at it in the fact that we have like a pool of dopamine and every time we have these dopamine like hearts, it's like we're throwing sorry, we're throwing like a rock in this pool to create this dopamine high. But then what happens is when the bigger the rock we throw in, the more, the higher the hit is. But what happens is that water tends to then, or the dopamine tends to kind of trickle out the pool. So every time it settles there's less in the pool. So next time, in order to get the same hit, you've got to throw an even bigger rock in. Yeah, and then more dopamine goes out the pool.
Speaker 5:And that's a really good explanation of addiction as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah that was awesome. Yeah, I actually like yeah, full on, that was awesome because I actually understood that.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I did so. When we have these addictive behaviors, we have these addictive behaviours, we have a little bit and it feels good, and we recover quickly when we're removed from the hit, and then slowly, over time, the hit will increase of whatever it is that we need, whether that's like sitting in a bike machine or taking a drug or having a drink and the recovery or the time that we can have between getting a hit of dopamine will shorten. So we recover less and then we need more, and then we need more more soon after we've already had one, and then that's when it becomes a problem, because then we find we can't live without it.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, so it's just like doing drugs. Yeah, you just keep needing that feed.
Speaker 4:Well, I think one of the things that obviously I think we've progressed a little bit to kind of.
Speaker 4:The adult side of it now is to say that you know if you have undiagnosed ADHD as an adult and you're sitting there going, you can't control your impulses.
Speaker 4:You know you battle to pay attention and so you start to get stressed because you're like, well, I don't know why I can't do this. So you start to deal with these stress levels. So you start to look for ways to deal with the stress levels. So it's not just for the dopamine hit of saying I'm going to get happy and high, but it's also a way of me saying, well, I can forget and I can cope with the way that I now don't need to worry about forget and I can cope with the way that I now don't need to worry about. Oh, excuse me, sorry, I don't need to worry about the fact that now I have these struggles that I'm struggling with in everyday life. So a lot of people tend to use these external factors as coping mechanisms for something even just as small as ADHD. And I say as small because if you kind of look at ADHD, it's very manageable.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's very manageable, but whereas when we start to look for these external mechanisms that start to build these dopamine hits and ways of coping and it gets to a real dangerous place, to now look at it and go I need help. The workload you have to do in order to then come down off that is going to be humongous compared to if we just went oh, I have ADHD, how do I manage ADHD?
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're not just looking at an ADHD. We're then looking at the shame that comes with identifying a behavior that we're not proud of, the negative self-talk or self-view that we've formed of ourselves, and questions around why do I need this? Why can't I cope? Why can the person next to me do it and not me? You know, we're not just dealing with ADHD, we're dealing with mental health.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. I mean it's huge, like you say, when you start to pick this field of mental health apart. They all link somewhere.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So it's not just that you can't just say, okay, we're going to focus on ADHD and ADHD is going to be its own, separate thing. It's always going to be linked to some other form of mental struggle, whether it be addiction, whether it be, you know, whatever it is psychotic behavior or neurodevelopment kind of side of things or whatever it is. But yeah, there's always going to be some link in some way.
Speaker 5:If you have ADHD, you are more likely to develop what we call comorbid diagnosis, which sounds horrible, but it just means coexisting. If you have depression and anxiety and ADHD, your ADHD will make depression and anxiety symptoms worse, and your depression and anxiety will make your ADHD symptoms worse. So you can't win.
Speaker 4:So one monster feeds the other monster. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 5:And it's really hard to cope when you're experiencing all of that at once.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 5:So let's.
Speaker 3:You looked straight at me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's me, that's me now.
Speaker 5:Not intentionally.
Speaker 3:No, that's all right because 100%, and that actually makes a lot of sense to me. When you said especially, shane said that one beast feeds the other. That's interesting, I didn't know that.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So if you think about your mind Chevy, right now you don't have to do it too deeply or if anyone who's listening has ADHD.
Speaker 5:A common thing that people will say to me is that their mind just doesn't switch off. It is go, go, go, go go constantly, even at night time, which is why a lot of people struggle to sleep. Now imagine you're not just thinking about, oh, what am I going to do? Or what didn't I do today? Or am I hungry, I don't know. Like you know, you've got all these like really benign thoughts Just every day, kind of yeah, yeah but imagine.
Speaker 5:Then you've got anxiety and so, instead of thinking of that, you're thinking what did that person think of me today? Did I say the wrong thing? Oh, I didn't do this today. Am I going to get in trouble at work? You know, instead of thinking of all of the mundane things and just having a fun time with our brain, we're thinking about all the things that we're worried about, and then you spend all night worrying, all day worrying, and then we go, wow, like I just want to switch my brain off and then we go oh.
Speaker 4:I feel horrible. Often yeah, often, like you say, it's the mental side of thing often affects the physical as well. Yeah, because what happens is when you start to worry about these things like anxiety and that kind of thing, you can't switch off your brain. You get tired, fatigue sets in Physically, you start to struggle health-wise as well.
Speaker 5:Well, it's funny you say that. Not funny, actually, it's just interesting. You say that Because when we experience depression, for example, our brain actually slows down and it tells our body to slow down. And so people will come and say, well, I think I've got ADHD, and they might actually just be depressed. Because there's this thing called executive functioning and when we're depressed we kind of lose motivation. So when we feel depressed, our brain will slow down and it will say, hey, body like, slow down, no motivation. We lose the energy that we once had. In order to get that motivation back, if you move your body. Go to the gym exercise.
Speaker 5:You'll actually be like hey, brain, time to speed up yeah and that can help your mental health. So it is all connected, because the things that are happening in our brain are telling our body what to do the same when we have anxiety, you're in that fight or fight mode. Yeah, it's like maybe there's not actually danger here there's not a lion in this room right now. Our body what to do the same when we have anxiety.
Speaker 4:You're in that fight or fight mode.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's like maybe there's not actually danger here. There's not a lion in this room, right?
Speaker 5:now but maybe we're really anxious about the people in the room and what they're thinking about us and our brain's going there's danger and it doesn't matter if there's danger there or not. If we perceive danger, it's telling our body to react. So our heart is increasing, we're sweating, we're feeling upset. That's our brain and so, if you can calm your body down, it will tell your brain hey, there's no danger here. And those are the things you learn in therapy is like how do I calm my body down to tell my brain that I'm okay in this moment and I'm not threatened?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's really good stuff to know. Yeah, wow, especially for the people listening that do have these symptoms, you know. So good, few little tips.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, it's just really knowledgeable to me to hear these kind of things because I feel, yeah, I just kind of feel that people sometimes can be very hard on themselves.
Speaker 4:Yeah, like you said, like you know, especially with the anxiety side of things, like people you know, when they worry about something, like let's just use the example that you thought of like what did I say the right thing? Like you can be very hard on yourself in that space where you're, and so that that judgment lasts longer, the anxiety lasts longer, whereas if we were just kinder to ourselves and being like you know, so what, who cares? I might've said the wrong thing, but at the same time, like you know, people who know me would understand that my heart and where I'm at. And you know people who know me would understand my heart and where I'm at. And you know, I've got to be gracious because everyone makes mistakes. And so what? Because ultimately, those people who have those kind of conditions, they feel that for other people so much more so they'll be very gracious towards other people. Yeah, like when someone else oh no, you're doing well, like you did so well, like so good. But it's so much harder for them to show to themselves.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and so what you're describing is like the ability to self-reflect, accept and be kind to ourselves. We are our own harshest critic, but putting things into perspective for people like, okay, all you can think about is that you said something silly or said something that might have embarrassed you. Think of the last time you heard someone say something embarrassing. How long did you think about that? For how long did you go? Oh, that person said that thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And when's the last time you thought about it?
Speaker 4:I can't tell you when. Yeah.
Speaker 5:So then, what do you think other people thought about the thing that you said, and how long did they think about it?
Speaker 3:That's really really good, because I'm thinking about what you're saying and that's 100%, isn't it? It just goes out of your mind like that. You don't even think about it.
Speaker 4:People don't care. You don't care that much.
Speaker 3:People have got their own issues. Like you said, we've all got these things we're struggling with. That's so good, very well explained. That's awesome, seriously, but I'm being serious.
Speaker 5:That's awesome explained.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it's awesome. That's why she does what she does. Yeah, but it's good. It's good because I'm picking up this Time for romance. I'm silly, it's good.
Speaker 4:Let's, that's good. Um, let's kind of bring it a little bit, a little bit more. Yeah, you've kind of gone a little bit of a rabbit trail there. That's fine, it's what we do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's bring it more back towards adhd and let's focus on adult, like on the side, the adulthood side of things yep how would you suggest um, you know, because obviously I think it's a lot harder the older you get to kind of now come forward and say I've got these kind of struggles that I'm dealing with, or even kind of acknowledging it because you've lived with it for so long. You just think it's normal.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:What would you kind of say to someone who, potentially is showing some of these signs? What would you suggest approaching that kind of subject or topic matter would be.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, I guess the first thing, which is easier said than done, is to be kind to yourself. If you're recognizing that you might have symptoms of ADHD, there's nothing you could have done about it If you had the support or the knowledge, like I often have, people go well, how did my parents not know? Our parents didn't have the access to the information that we have. They didn't know about the difference between inattentive and hyperactive, impulsive ADHD and we couldn't just look it up on Google. So there's a lot of like I keep saying shame that comes with the oh you know, like I should have done this sooner. And what I like to talk about a lot, particularly with people who have ADHD, is like your capacity. So people are inherently good and I truly believe that and we give what we can People go oh, I wish I'd done this. I wish we can People go. Oh, I wish I'd done this.
Speaker 5:I wish I'd done this in the past, or I wish I'd done that. But if you had the capacity to do that in the past, you would have done it. You didn't have the capacity, but maybe you've got it now. And if you've got the capacity now, that's great. But you can't look back and go. I could have done that back then because you would have.
Speaker 4:It's very interesting. You say that, actually, because I kind of always had this sense that you know, things happen at specific times in our lives for a reason you know and you talk about capacity. So even though, for instance, you might've known about this earlier, let's just say, 14 year old boy, I, you know, I wasn't paying attention, I struggled, blah, blah, blah. I didn't have the capacity, I just thought I was being naughty and so I just carried on, and maybe it wasn't the right time for me to do it then, because in that moment I would have okay, let's use a different example Glasses.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:For seeing. I'm going to use a personal kind of example about this. I knew when I was in high school that I needed glasses. I went to an optometrist. They gave me glasses. Here we go, use these for reading, you'll feel better. You won't get headaches, you'll be fine. Put glasses on, felt embarrassed. So what did I do? Took the glasses, put them in a drawer, didn't wear them again, struggled for another 10, 15 years before I realized I need to go to an optometrist and get my eyes checked. Went back, got the exact same glasses that I got when I was 16. And now do not take them off. Love them. I'm like this is the best thing. I should have done this sooner.
Speaker 3:You do look nice with glasses.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you Thank this sooner, you do look nice with glasses. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wrong season didn't have the capacity when I was younger to deal with it. Maybe it was astigmatism behind glasses that I was just like, but what I'm saying is I didn't know what I knew back then, what I know now in terms of the benefits of it. Exactly, it was the wrong season, yeah, whereas now I'm like I wish I'd done it sooner.
Speaker 5:Yeah, you don't know until you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I think that's what you're referring to when you're saying like the capacity is like sometimes, even though you know it's the right thing to do. I knew it was the right thing that I should be wearing the glasses. I didn't have the capacity to be like to deal with number one, the stigmatism behind wearing them, because it's not cool People were going to mock me. People were going to call me names, and so I didn't have that capacity to deal with it, whereas now I'm like good one, bro, and that's a really good example.
Speaker 5:So you didn't probably even develop your own sense of self by that age either you. You were still developing independence, trying to find out who you were, and that didn't fit with someone who was wearing glasses and your opinion around your glasses changed, and probably the opinion of yourself, because you've got more confidence. So, yeah, like you didn't have the capacity then, but you've got it now.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And you can also do it as simple as being able to regulate. So say, you're in a relationship and you have a fight with your partner and you yell and you're like, oh, I wish I didn't yell. And you've had conversations with your partner about why you shouldn't yell and that you're going to try better. If you are emotionally upset and you don't have the ability to not yell, while it's not an excuse if you can then look back on it and go, oh, I wish I hadn't done that, but then recognize I didn't have the capacity to not yell in that moment like I wish I had now. It will help you accept that, while it wasn't great if I had the capacity to not yell, if I truly had that capacity, I wouldn't do it because we are inherently good.
Speaker 5:No child wants to misbehave. No child wants to disappoint people. They don't have the capacity to do that. So being kind to yourself and kind to others who don't have that capacity is really important when it comes to going okay. Well, what are my symptoms and what I'm dealing with, and why haven't I addressed it sooner?
Speaker 4:I think, just yeah, what you're saying there for me is just like there's such a big, important kind of spectrum in the fact that there should be a lot more value on kindness in the world, kindness not only towards other people, but kindness towards ourselves. I think when people realize that they can portray kindness to themselves more than they portray to other people, what will happen is the internal will immediately reflect the external. Yeah, so, because what happens is when we start to externally portray these things and it doesn't reflect the internal, the value is less in that and we hold less value in that.
Speaker 4:So if I am saying that I like, like, for instance, I use chev as an example, because everyone obviously understands chev with, with adhd with your story with adhd what I'm saying is oh yeah, it's like I can get frustrated at chev for not listening to me when I say something um, but I know same with you and the rest of the world but what I know is I don't listen every time.
Speaker 4:either my wife can say something to me and I can forget it, or I can be distracted at the same time. And if I'm expecting her to show kindness to me, I need to then do the same to chef, because I need to be kind to myself and be like okay, I didn't listen to my wife. Sucks, I can do better. Better luck next time, bud, let's go. Yeah, same with Chev. It makes it easier for me then to be like you know what, chev, I don't appreciate you not listening to me, but at the same time, I understand.
Speaker 4:No, I'm joking. I'm joking, I understand and I love you enough to be like let's just move on and be like do better in the future. Bud, yeah, of course, and I think that's what I'm trying to say is like people need to. I love the analogy and I think I've used it before on this podcast of the whole emergency kind of thing on the airplane, where they do the whole emergency kind of procedure and the airspace will say, in the case of emergency, oxygen masks will drop out of the seating above. What is the first thing they say?
Speaker 4:You put your mask on first you put your own mask on before you start helping other people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's bull. She's listened to the last body that you.
Speaker 5:I have not. I've travelled on a plane.
Speaker 4:It's pretty obvious you travel on a plane.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm one of those dudes that put my headphones on. Yeah, and I ask them for the instruction manual Can we go through the instructions again.
Speaker 4:But, like, that is the key thing. The key thing is to always go like put your own one first, because from that are you in a position then to help someone else. That's right. You have the capacity which is what we were talking about to help someone else because your understanding becomes greater, your kindness becomes greater.
Speaker 5:But there's another layer to that too, in that if you don't have the capacity, there's a reason why. Okay.
Speaker 5:So, like what you're describing is being mindful and self-aware. It's a skill. It's hard and you've got to be really quite brutally honest with yourself about why you acted a certain way or why you find it difficult to do something for someone else or accept things. But once you have that skill and have the awareness of what you can generally have the capacity for, if you didn't have it one day for a reason, it's not about going oh, like there's something wrong with me because I wasn't able to do it that day. It's about going okay. Well, what happened to me or what am I going through that meant that I didn't have the capacity that day, and sometimes that can be really hard to find out on its own. But then it's going okay. Well, you know that sucked, but how am I going to deal with that and am I going to try and do better next time?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and that's what it all. I think every situation we go through there's a learning curve in it. Hey, yeah, and it's like you say, when you can sit back and go hmm, what can I learn from the situation? Yeah, I can either learn what caused it or I can learn how to not do it again.
Speaker 5:Yeah, or how can?
Speaker 1:I manage myself, so that I'm in a better position to cope with that next time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, next time it happens, yeah, yeah so you've got to have kindness, like it's, not like a simple yep, I can do that. I'm going to do it. It takes work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's the thing In order for us to get through life. Nowadays, I think people think that it's we live in a very self-gratification kind of thing where it's instant gratification Sorry, it's probably the word I'm looking for it's instant gratification. So these kinds of things are not necessarily instant and so people tend to shy away from doing it because they're like dopamine hits not going to happen straight away. It might happen over a long period of time and you might look back and go five years from now and be like holy crap, I've like done really well to get to where I'm at. Like that's the dopamine hit that you go. I feel good about myself, yeah, yeah. It's like gym Go to gym. You're not going to lift a hundred kgs.
Speaker 4:You're not going to bench press a hundred kgs the first time you go to gym.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like I don't care who you are.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:If you've never been to the gym, you're not. And bench press 100. You might start with 10. Yeah, but the more you do it, the more you grow and soon enough you'll be at 100 kgs.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's consistently developing these patterns, like you say, to grow the capacity and be like in this. I recognize now I have more and more capacity and I'm getting stronger and stronger.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and that's where therapy is kind of it is like the gym.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And mindfulness is like the gym. Yeah, and mindfulness is like the gym. It sucks at the start, it is hard. Yeah. People come in and I'm like it's actually hard work. You just can't come and talk to me and I don't fix a person's problems. I help them fix their own problems.
Speaker 5:Yeah. And so people come in and they're like oh you know, I've been seeing you for three, four sessions. Why haven't I fixed yet? Well, it's not about fixing you, it's about giving you strategies and skills and working on yourself. So it is like a muscle you start, you feel like you might suck at it, but the more you come, the more you engage in therapy or the more you do things for yourself, even if that's like going and listening to.
Speaker 3:Leave a lot on podcast.
Speaker 5:Leave a lot on podcast.
Speaker 3:That's a great lesson, or having a meditation.
Speaker 5:Like people with ADHD in particular struggle with certain types of meditation because they're like clear your mind and you know you'd never ask someone with ADHD to do that. You'd be like, okay, well, let's do a meditation where you're actually using your brain to do things, maybe like a tense and relax. So you're like tensing up, relax. You'll do it the first couple of times and you'll be like oh, I was really bad at that and I got distracted and do this. The more you do it, the better you get at it.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's any skill in life. Hey, yeah, yeah, you've got to work at it. It's not just going to automatically pop into your head and you're going to be like, oh, I'm great at this.
Speaker 3:What Mel's saying is that Rome wasn't built in a day. People, Rome was not built in a day. It takes time Things take time.
Speaker 5:Yeah, your internal empire is going to take a little while.
Speaker 3:No, that's good. So we should all be working on ourselves Always. Yeah 100%, that's good.
Speaker 4:Okay, so let's just say I'm going to use an example here. Yeah, my friend Shiv comes in. He doesn't know that he has ADHD, right? Yeah, me being maybe a little bit more educated in the fact that I know the symptoms, the signs to look out for, I see signs that I'm concerned about and I know that he is struggling with some things. How would I, as the friend, go about having a conversation with Shev to be like, hey, bud, what? I think there's a potential here for you to have this. You should maybe go get assessed in order for you to have this checked up. Maybe it's going to help you. What would your advice be to someone who maybe is in that situation?
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I just want to start, if you don't mind with me just giving a little bit of advice around, like the whole diagnostic process, because it's fine to see symptoms in someone, giving a little bit of advice around like the whole diagnostic process, because it's fine to see symptoms in someone, but you don't know what you're looking at. Yes. And I don't mean that from like oh, I'm a psychologist, I know everything. It's more we see symptoms in people and we immediately attribute them to the thing that comes up in our mind first.
Speaker 4:It's from our own perspective. From our own perspective and our own experiences.
Speaker 5:It could even be with like our own, like I've been diagnosed. You have symptoms like me. Therefore, you have ADHD, and that's not necessarily true. And the struggle with social media at the moment is ADHD is. It's right there, it's in front of everyone and I would say it's one of the biggest thing. That and autism are the two biggest things that are filtering through social media at the moment, and so people are looking at it and going, oh, I have that, I have that, I have that, I have that. Therefore, I have ADHD.
Speaker 5:And the role of us as clinicians is to go okay, you've come to me, you've told me you think you have ADHD. And the role of us as clinicians is to go okay, you've come to me, you've told me, you think you have ADHD. Now, what is every other thing that it could be before I can diagnose you with ADHD and depression? Like I said, it looks like ADHD. We've got no motivation to do things. We want to do things, but we can't. Our anxiety you know we're restless, our mind is going, we feel like we're on the go all of the time. Mental health can look a lot like ADHD and bipolar disorder can look a lot like ADHD.
Speaker 5:There are so many things and this is just adults like children is a whole nother layer of complexity. But in adults you can see someone and think that they might have ADHD, but they could have something else. And if you're coming up to a friend and saying, hey, I think you've got this, and then they come and see a therapist and ADHD, like a lot of people are like oh, you know, like I can take a pill and I'm better I'm using quotations right now but it doesn't fix anything, it just provides you with a little bit more help. But then they come in and I'm like no, you don't have ADHD, you have this or this or this. And then it's like oh, like I've just spent the last couple of months telling myself that I have this other thing and now I don't have that, and now I've got to learn to accept something else. So if you notice that someone has symptoms of whatever it is, it might be kinder to say hey, like I've noticed, you struggle with this a lot. Have you ever thought about what that might be?
Speaker 4:Oh shit, sorry, my goodness me you are shocking, sorry.
Speaker 4:So it's kind of interesting what you're saying there. What you're saying is, rather than put a label on it is to say I've noticed and point out the symptoms that you've noticed, yeah, and say have you thought of maybe going and get an assist to find out what those symptoms are? So, rather than saying I've noticed you've had X, y and Z and I think therefore you have ADHD, yeah, maybe you should go see someone. Just go. I've noticed you have X, y and Z and maybe you should go and see someone.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but you know you kind of got to it's got to be someone you're comfortable with. You know you don't want someone then going oh.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, just some random down the street I knew about that and other people are now noticing it.
Speaker 5:So it's got to be done like if you are noticing someone's struggling, you should say something, but make sure you're doing it in a way that's opened, non-confronting and really isn't judgmental, and you can preface it with that hey, like there's no judgment. I've struggled with this in the past too, or I've got friends who struggle with this. But I've noticed this, you know like, have you ever thought about what might be causing it? Or are you okay? And the person might be like yeah, you know, I've got adhd or I'm struggling with something right now, but I'm working through it because we don't know, um, but you know, you could be noticing something in someone and it could be part of something much bigger also.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I also feel like now, in this particular day and age, what happens is people. People tend to label things to a situation that suits them. For instance, I'll use me as an example. I will often go. I'm very OCD because I like things in a certain place. My cupboard's very neat, it's color-coded. If I open a carton of eggs my wife knows this If I open a carton of eggs and they aren't all where they're supposed to be, if my wife goes and takes one from here and one from here and one from here, it completely throws me. But in saying that, I know that OCD is actually a real thing and there's a lot of what's the word I'm looking for. It's a lot more severe than what I label as OCD. So I might have tendencies of an OCD person, but I think I need to be very mindful of the fact that if I label myself as OCD, it can paint a real picture of what it kind of negates the importance of people who actually are struggling with it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I guess that's more like language-based. You know, ocd is an extreme form of anxiety. So generally when people are enacting these compulsions, it's so that something bad doesn't happen and it's real or it's imagined. It can be real or it can be imagined.
Speaker 4:People struggle with real crippling anxiety, like you say.
Speaker 5:They do.
Speaker 3:People can't like leave the house unless they've checked the lights three times or they've done Just a bit to say that, sean, I know that I actually read something and there was a lady in America a few years ago that she had a doctor's appointment in the morning and she got up early hours of the morning, made a bed, did everything, but by the time she did all that, she had to go back through it like what you said. Change it like turn the lights off to make sure they're turned off. Three times she had to go back to the start and do everything again.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Make sure the dishwasher was packed. So yeah, it is extremely. I was reading that, yeah, about an American lady. Yeah, she was like literally bound to the house because she'd go back and do it all.
Speaker 5:Yeah and I think there really is something to be said about using terms where people can really be affected by the language that we use. When I hear a lot is triggered, like that triggered me, that is quite a clinical term that people use very casually these days and I think it really does take away from people who really don't have much control over what they're triggered by and it kind of brings everything down so that when someone says, you know, like that really triggered me. When we see the word triggered throughout social media, it's kind of like oh, you know, yeah, lots of people get triggered and it kind of takes away from that person's experience.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I mean you may be OCD and, without getting too clinical on you, you may not have obsessive compulsive disorder.
Speaker 4:I might just be obsessive, compulsive.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so like if just to use like a different example everyone has anxiety, literally everyone. If we didn't have anxiety we would be dead. Because it doesn't. It tells us when there's danger and when we need to be careful. So everyone has it, but not everyone has an anxiety disorder. I use the word disorder as a clinical term. I don't think anyone is disordered, it's just how it's written in our diagnostic manual. So when it becomes clinical is when the anxiety stops you from doing things and affects your functioning. When it's so bad that you're not going to go to that party because you're scared of being judged, you're not going to take the promotion because you feel like you can't talk in front of people. When it stops you from doing something, that's when your anxiety is at a clinical level and you need therapy. But not everyone needs therapy for anxiety.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, that's brilliant, that's a great way to put it in fact that is a brilliant way.
Speaker 7:Finally you get a clap.
Speaker 4:Um, in fact, that is actually a really, really beautiful way to put. That is like, and that's what you, that's what I think I was trying to get at when I was saying like, when we use those kinds of terms, we we take away from the importance of people that are genuinely struggling in those particular fields. And when I say genuinely struggling, like I might have an anxious moment but, like you say, I might not have anxiety disorder.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And if I continue to say, oh, I'm such an anxious person and I have an anxiety disorder. What happens is when people are really struggling with that and they look at me and they go but you're so normal, what's wrong with me? There's got to be something more wrong with me.
Speaker 5:Yeah. So it kind of like devalues in a way, invalidates, invalidates, invalidates experience, and that's how.
Speaker 3:I feel. I look at you and I go. What's wrong with you, Do you understand?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. What's wrong with me?
Speaker 3:I don't know Okay.
Speaker 5:We'll have a chat later.
Speaker 4:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's kind of wrap this up in a nice little bow for today, Cause I think we've covered a fair bit covered quite a fair bit of ground.
Speaker 4:Yeah, advice on what? Would you kind of give advice to anyone out there who is struggling, who has been diagnosed with ADHD by a clinician, like you say, and is struggling in this industry? What are some ways that you would suggest managing this?
Speaker 5:I mean it's different for every person. Research does show you know medication is really effective. I encourage anyone to speak to a psychiatrist if they haven't already. But as far as the person goes, really working on acceptance, I think is a huge one for people with ADHD. There are so many great things that can come from a diagnosis and I don't mean that in like, oh, you know, amazing, like you're different. I don't want people to feel like I'm just saying, oh, you know. All positive because it's a struggle, it's hard, but learning to accept yourself for who you are, accept that you're not going to be the same as the next person, and kind of using that to your advantage, like, yeah, I'm different, I'm a bit more impulsive, I struggle to sleep at night, but hey, like these are all the great things that I can do. Maybe you speak out of turn, but your friends will accept you anyway.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 5:accept me, Shay. The people who.
Speaker 4:Well, you're here still, aren't you, Of course? Shay, sorry, just no, don't do it at all.
Speaker 5:But like really just that acceptance is probably the biggest thing, because the shame, the negativity, the poor self-image that I see with people who struggle with these symptoms, you know that's the biggest thing and you know you're going to be, you know, more emotional than people of the same gender and age as you. You're going to interpret things differently, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great. I don't know that. I explained that well. Yeah you, it's wrong. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 5:I don't know how to explain that well, yeah, you did, you did great, that's good.
Speaker 4:I think it's so important in today's day and age to and I think there's a big push in it for, like that self-acceptance.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Kind of just being okay with who you are, being kind to yourself in the situation and being understanding and knowing that there's people out there that will accept you for who you are.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and at the start that is going to be hard. But once you accept it, the confidence that comes thereafter you know that's going to help you through the rest of your life.
Speaker 4:It's the baby steps and the journey to kind of get better. Yeah, you got to crawl before you walk. That's it, and I think that's generally what we're trying to create with, obviously, this podcast is a community out there that is accepting. That is saying well, we know that we have our struggles and we have our moments of weakness and things like that. That's okay. That's what being human is about.
Speaker 4:And how can I feed off people around me in similar situations that are taking their baby steps and how can I help them, how can they help me? And creating this space where we're saying we're just wanting to live life to the best ability that we can do with whatever struggle we have, whatever that mental struggle or physical struggle, whatever it is, because everyone has struggles. That's exactly right, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and I think you know, being in my line of work, it's really true that you don't know what someone is going through. I've spoken to people who have walked into my room and I've thought this person seems like they've got it all figured out.
Speaker 5:And then you speak to them over a couple of sessions and you go oh, I see Like things are really hard for this person and you could have the most confident person in the entire world and think that there's nothing wrong with them and they've got something going on. So if you can work on yourself, you can learn to love and accept yourself, as cliche as that sounds. You will only help other people do the same thing because you will approach them with the kindness that you have learnt to give yourself.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 3:It's awesome Me and Shane where we work you know what I mean there's so many people out there that do go through struggles and exactly what you said that me and Shane thought to ourselves you never think you're going to move, moving knees because you are 100% right. They walk with confidence and stuff like that and you go well, okay, he's got some dramas. You know some struggles that he's facing, so it's just very yeah, it can happen to anyone.
Speaker 5:So yeah, and you've got to think too like I've been out in mining before and sitting in a truck for 12 and a half hours with mental health can be a really lonely space.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, it's probably the worst place you can be when you're struggling, huh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, locked up with your own thoughts. Yeah, that drives you insane.
Speaker 4:Literally driving you insane. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Part of the pun.
Speaker 5:If you don't like yourself, it's a hard place to be in. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, Mel, thank you so much. That's awesome. For sharing the incredible knowledge that you have shared with us. I know we kind of had a broad topic of ADHD, which I think we kind of jumped on and shared quite a lot on, but I think there was a lot of other things and that's why I say who knows, who knows where we're going to go next. So thank you so much for joining us today and for sharing that. I know Mindful Moments is going to stick around for a long time.
Speaker 3:I hope so.
Speaker 4:In fact, I reckon we close with a little jingle again.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, if you want to, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 4:I reckon we close with that little jingle again oh yeah, if you want to, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 5:Just one more time because I think it's so cool, just for you yeah.
Speaker 7:I think that's a great idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there we go it's good.
Speaker 6:First little jingle ever made Ooh yeah, it's Mindful Moments with Mel. Come groove with me.
Speaker 7:She's a psychologist, got the knowledge Breathe in, breathe out, Let your worries take a leap. Mindful Moments, ooh yeah, with Mel Feeling so good. Got a story to tell. Gonna guide your mind, help your soul as well. Mindful Moments with Mel In the school we dwell.
Speaker 4:Gotta love that jingle, Mel Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:No, I really appreciate jingle Mel. That's awesome. Thank you so much. No, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Mel, thank you for your time. Thank you so much for joining us and yeah, we look forward to having you on again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. No, I can't wait. Just quickly, before we dive apart. Do you want to give Teletraub a bit of a plug?
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's hear about Teletraub.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, sure. Yes, just quickly before we wrap up.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so we won the Hunter Business Award for Outstanding New Business.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 5:And we're off to the New South Wales Business Awards.
Speaker 3:Well for me and Shane.
Speaker 5:congratulations yeah thank you so much Congratulations, that's amazing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's awesome, thank you. Well, let's go New South Wales. So yeah, and then Australia.
Speaker 5:Well, hopefully that would be awesome. Australia Well, hopefully that would be awesome. I'm not sure if it goes. I didn't even know. It went from Lake Macquarie to Hunter to. New South Wales, so we'll see how we go, but I think it's really nice. We are really trying to break down barriers to accessing services. Yeah cool. So it's really, really nice I've got such a passionate and amazing team.
Speaker 3:Well, shout out to the Telethrive team yeah yeah, shout out yeah.
Speaker 5:Thank you, congratulations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, congratulations to Mel and the team at Telethrive. Thank you.
Speaker 4:That's awesome. Where can we find you? Yeah, how do people get hold of you if they want to come see you, if they want advice?
Speaker 5:So we do have a website, which I'll send the details. We have clinics in Singleton, Warners Bay and Maitland. We're also available nationwide online. We have online services. We do diagnosis and assessment and we also provide ongoing services as well, yeah, cool.
Speaker 4:That's great For our listeners. Anyone who's listening to this Mel's website. Details will be in the description for this podcast, so have a look there. Click on it If you want to get hold of her. All the details will be on there. So, mel, thank you again for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Congratulations again on your award. That's great. We look forward to hearing the next time on the Great News 100%.
Speaker 3:Hopefully we can keep this going.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I can't wait to have you on again for Mindful Moments with Mel.
Speaker 5:Yes, thank you, I can't wait to be back Awesome.
Speaker 3:All right, well, on going, you going, I've had enough.
Speaker 4:Okay, good, I've had enough of you as well.
Speaker 3:That's awesome, so check out our socials Facebook, instagram and TikTok. Shane's not impressed.
Speaker 4:No, they're great TikTok. I don't do any dancing, you do the dancing, so it's fine.
Speaker 3:No, but check out our socials, let us know how we're going. Give us a review and, yeah, check us out on Spotify Podcast.
Speaker 4:And whatever you're listening on. Yeah, whatever, whatever platforms you're listening on, yeah, and YouTube, yeah, youtube, whatever platform you're listening on, yeah on YouTube, yeah, youtube, anyway, yeah from me. Thank you very much, shiv, too easy. Thank you, have a good one. And from us obviously, leave a lot on podcast. Have a good one and don't forget.
Speaker 2:Let's leave a lot on Thank you, hey, thanks for listening. We hope you managed to gain some insight from today's episode. Jump onto our socials and reach out.