Leave A Light On Podcast
Welcome to "Leave A Light On Podcast," the podcast that brings you inspiring stories of ordinary people overcoming extraordinary challenges in their lives. Join us as we delve into the lives of individuals from all walks of life, exploring the adversities they face and the resilience they demonstrate in overcoming them.
In each episode, we'll introduce you to a new guest—a parent, a teacher, a healthcare worker, a student, a veteran, or perhaps your neighbor next door. Through heartfelt interviews and candid conversations, we'll uncover the personal battles they've fought, whether it's overcoming illness, navigating through loss, breaking free from addiction, or facing societal barriers.
From tales of triumph over adversity to stories of perseverance in the face of hardship, "Leave a Light On Podcast" celebrates the human spirit and the strength found within each of us. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and most importantly, you'll be inspired by the resilience and determination of these everyday people who refuse to be defined by their struggles.
So, tune in and join us on this journey of hope, empowerment, and the celebration of the human spirit. Because in the end, it's the stories of everyday people that remind us all that we are capable of overcoming anything life throws our way.
Leave A Light On Podcast
Episode 12 - The Journey to Redefining Masculinity in Today's World
Ever wondered how societal shifts are impacting the traditional male identity and what it really means to be a man today? Join us as we tackle these complex questions head-on, exploring the multifaceted issues of masculinity, purpose, and mental well-being in our latest episode of Leave a Light On Podcast. Shayne and Chev, without the interruption of guests, offer a candid conversation that sheds light on the everyday struggles of men navigating modern societal expectations. We challenge typical narratives and emphasize the importance of understanding and curiosity, drawing inspiration from cultural reflections like "Ted Lasso" to advocate for meaningful connections and purposeful engagement.
We take a serious look at the disturbing statistics surrounding male suicide rates, particularly highlighting how societal pressures and evolving gender roles contribute to feelings of uselessness among men. Our discussion also includes insights from Richard Reeves' work, offering valuable perspectives on how to raise a generation of men who feel purposeful and valued. By dissecting the implications of traditional and modern gender roles, we encourage a balanced dialogue that recognizes the unique contributions of both men and women, ultimately aiming to foster a more inclusive society.
Our conversation is a call to action for redefining societal roles and promoting healthy masculinity. We stress the necessity of supportive cultures that value every individual's contributions, breaking down the barriers that lead to isolation and loneliness among young men. Throughout the episode, we emphasize the importance of open communication and forming supportive friendships, striving to reduce the stigma surrounding mental health and ensuring that no one faces their struggles alone. Tune in to explore these pressing topics with us, and consider reaching out through our social media platforms to foster new and meaningful connections.
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Share your stories with us and lets Leave a Light On
Hello and welcome to Leave a Light On Podcast, a show that looks to tackle the everyday struggles in our everyday lives. It's time to shed some light on it. Leave a light on podcasts not a licensed mental health service. It shouldn't be substituted for professional advice or treatment. Things discussed in this podcast are general in nature and may be of a sensitive nature. If you're struggling, please seek professional help or contact Lifeline on 13 11 14.
Speaker 2:Here's your hosts Shane and Shiv. Yo, what's happening? Everybody, my name is Shane, Welcome to another episode of Leave a Light on Podcast. And my other host, of course the other half of the show, is the one and only Shivy, Corkwell. Hello.
Speaker 3:Hey, what's going on? How's it, how's it? Good job, what's going on? I'm trying to write some new material. How's?
Speaker 2:it. It's not new, but I mean it's new for you.
Speaker 3:It'll work. It'll work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what's happening? Chev, how are you going?
Speaker 3:Yeah, good, not too bad at all. So, yeah, a few days off work, yeah, for me and you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good. Yeah, well, that's always when we obviously do the recording of this, when we're not at work. It's good.
Speaker 3:So let our hair down for a couple of days before we have to get back into it the minimal hair that you do have, proceeding hairline hair.
Speaker 2:You've got more hair on your bloody face than you do on the top of your head. It's good too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's getting longer.
Speaker 2:It's subjective, it's getting better. It's getting better. Shout out to Jericho.
Speaker 3:Shout out to Jericho. They're actually quite good. So beautiful, beautiful, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Otherwise you good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good, really good. The weather is absolutely salubrious outside. Salubrious, salubrious. Look at you expanding your vocab. I'm trying to. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2:What does salubrious?
Speaker 3:mean it means awesome Is what it means. Well, yeah, yeah, well, I could use better stuff, okay, but you went with salubrious yeah. Okay, I don't want to express too much because I'll have to use the F word.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we don't do that Exactly. That's what I mean. We keep it clean on this podcast Exactly. But it means pretty good day, as clean as we can, should I say.
Speaker 3:So we've got something special today, Something a little bit different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I mean, we're getting accustomed to not having guests anymore, I suppose.
Speaker 3:We like the sound of our own voice. Yeah, exactly. So as much as we love having guests on and all that, we don't want to just change it up a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, changing it up, keeping our listeners on their toes, yeah, of course. So, yeah, this episode is just you and me, bud Yep. And actually the reason why is because it's something that I would say, probably been on my heart for quite a while, this topic of conversation, and it's something that I'm really passionate about, to be honest not that I'm not passionate about anything else that we've been chatting about, but I think this one for me, yeah, it really it's something that I want to talk about more, and I feel like the conversation around it is very one-sided at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and yeah, I think we'll get into it a little bit more, but yeah, it's one that I'm really excited about and I think you and I are going to have some good conversations around it. And let me start off by saying this A lot of what we're going to talk about today is, I'm going to say, a generalization. So when we talk about a particular gender or particular group of people please understand everyone who's listening we are going to talk in general terms. Unless specified, take it as general. We're generalizing in general terms. Unless specified, take it as general. We're generalizing. There's not to say that the stats aren't different or couldn't be different or that one particular person or group or gender whatever the case is is different. But yeah, we're going to talk in very general terms today, and the reason why we're doing that is because the stats are favoring the numbers that we are saying yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, before let's.
Speaker 3:But I was going to say we always do a little bit of research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just a little, yeah, just enough to make it seem like we know what we're talking about well, just so we've got some sort of backup yeah, just some sort of backup, um, so yeah, so let's, let's dive in straight away. Shiv, to be honest, because I think we've kept the viewers on their toes long enough. But basically, if I can ask you one question and this will kind of set us up is tell me your perspective of what it means to be a man in today's society.
Speaker 3:So my perspective in being a man in today's society, in my personal opinion, is, you know, like taking care of, like your wife or spouse looking after the kids, going to work, just having, like you know, taking accountability, having some like vulnerability. You know, just have some good conversations with your missus, and do you know what I mean? Like just be that rock for her, but obviously, as I said, go out and support your spouse and your kids and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Create a good lifestyle for them, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the reason why I'm asking you that question, and for the viewers, is because there's this big discussion at the moment on masculinity in today's time, what it is in terms of what does healthy masculinity look like and what does it mean. Obviously, the word, the phrase that gets thrown around a lot is this phrase of toxic masculinity, which I don't like because I feel like it's a very harsh term and it's for a very small percentage of men. But I feel like, for the sake of a better thing, I'm going to use more appropriate language for us and I'm going to say healthy masculinity and I'm going to say unhealthy masculinity, because I feel like, obviously, healthy, if anything's healthy, it means it's good for us, it creates a lot of growth, it creates a sustainability. You know, if something's unhealthy for us, it brings decay, it brings death. It often leads to this, for lack of a better thing, this death in us. If you're very unhealthy, ultimately you're leading down the road to death quicker. So that's why I'm going to use the words of healthy and unhealthy rather than toxic masculinity, because I feel like the word or the phrase toxic masculinity is thrown around very easily.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so I also understand for all our female viewers, please understand. I'm not condoning men's behavior or I'm not condoning the things that men do in order to justify their behavior. What I'm saying is let's look at the general term of what it means to be a man and masculinity in its essence Now. Masculinity for anyone who isn't aware of it. Masculinity in its definition is behaviors, languages and practices existing in a specific culture or organization. So it's not only referred to as men, but it's generally referred. It's associated with men mostly. So it's the behaviors, it's the languages and the practices that men use in order that makes them feel like men, if I can put it like that. So that's why, when we talk about healthy masculinity, it's like what healthy practices are men using to create a healthy environment around them and create a healthy culture and organization, whatever it is that's around them?
Speaker 2:And then unhealthy, obviously, is the opposite of that. Yeah, of course. So when we look at unhealthy masculinity in a relationship, what are the aspects or the behaviors that men do that are making that relationship unhealthy? Yep, so that's where the topic of today's kind of conversation is, and the reason why I ask this is because there's a very interesting stat that I read the other day or that I heard, and I'll share this with you, is that the rate of suicide in men is four times higher than women, which is extraordinary, and that's okay.
Speaker 2:Now, again, that's not to say that we shouldn't focus on women's suicide rates. Yeah, yeah, please understand me. Today's one is going to be predominantly on men in general, and that's not to negate that it's okay for the female side of things. But I generally feel like there needs to be more of an emphasis on getting men to a position where they have purpose in order to reduce these stats. Yeah, yeah, because no stat in this particular realm is acceptable. But the fact that it's four times higher means that there is something drastically wrong in men yeah, something's going wrong, something's wrong in men that are causing men to be four times higher, or four times more likely to take their life than women.
Speaker 3:Which, as I said before, that's extraordinary, it's extraordinary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's huge, yeah, so I'm going to share some stats with you now. Yeah, sure that I heard that were shocking to me when I did hear them, to be honest, and so here's some of the things that I've read. Obviously, the first one was rates of suicide is four times higher in young men than women. Yep, in the UK, suicide is the biggest killer of men under the age of 45. So that's above cancer, any other illness that's out there Suicide is the number one killer of men under the age of 45.
Speaker 3:And that's in the UK, and that's in the UK. That is crazy. It makes you think what the hell is going on over there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the USA, a man commits suicide every 13 minutes. That means that literally by the time we started this podcast to where we are now, two men in the USA have taken their own life.
Speaker 3:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:It's an astounding stat when you think about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Half hour episode or whatever. That's two men gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's the other one that I almost fell off my seat when I heard Lucky, your seat's got a back on it.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Since 1999, what's that 25 years now? So in the last 25 years, if men's suicide rates matched women's, approximately 445,000 fewer men would have died in that time frame. Half a million men less would have died.
Speaker 3:Just let that sink in listeners, because that is huge, it is massive.
Speaker 2:Half a million people, Half a million men, not people men, yeah, half a million men would still be alive. Would still be alive if they matched. Now again, we're not saying that either is acceptable. Yeah, half a million men would still be alive. Would still be alive if they match. Now again, we're not saying that either is acceptable. Yeah, of course, but there is a drastic problem.
Speaker 3:It's like what I said before it makes you think what the hell is going on. Why is there so many, like half a million men?
Speaker 2:Let me ask you the question, Shev why do you think that is the case?
Speaker 3:To be quite honest with you, I'm going to give you the short answer, but I will elaborate. The short answer is I don't know. Okay, but I am going to elaborate and think, just in my opinion, that maybe it's to do with people feeling worthless oh, I'm sorry, men feeling worthless, like they're not wanted, because I know that we were talking about this off air. A couple of months ago, when I had my meltdown, I felt in this exact same position. I felt worthless and I felt helpless, especially during work times as well. So maybe that's got something to do with it that men might not be doing so well in life, whether it be relationships or work or anything like that and, yeah, obviously feeling a lot of stress and all that sort of stuff as well.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 3:I think maybe that's taken a toll.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, it's interesting you should say that Because there's a local Australian researcher and her name is Fiona Shand and she basically did a study on men, specifically, obviously, that committed suicide, and she correlated things or attempted to commit suicide at the same time, so it was a range of attempted and eventually ended up committing suicide or committed suicide and then left some form of communication behind, because that's obviously something that's pretty common. The two most common phrases or words that were used by men that commit a suicide, number one being useless and the other one was worthless.
Speaker 2:So those are the two most common words that were associated with men when they committed suicide, when they left either communication behind or when they attempted it and then eventually did go on to make it. Yeah, okay, you know this because this is a conversation obviously we had, like you said, a couple of months ago, yeah, sure, and you said to me one of the phrases I still remember you saying when we had this conversation is that you said, quote and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, fair enough, Is I don't? I feel like the world would be better off without me.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and that is the honest truth. I actually said something. You probably remember it better than I do, but that's pretty much what I said.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, as I said, I'll tell listeners I, just when I had my meltdown and all that, it was because of my relationship and work and all that. I just everything was just like on top of everything. It was like an abyss. You know what I mean? I was sitting on the side of abyss. This is what Matty Cav said and I've taken this away. It's like you sit on the side of abyss and you can either jump in or you can pull yourself away from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I like to say that I am pulling myself away from it. But what I'm trying to say is that you know it's, yeah, you do feel like that. When the pressure gets so heavy, you do get to that point where you feel worthless and you feel useless, especially with work, relationships, kids. You know like, yeah, just different stuff in general. It might not even be those three things. You know, it could be other stuff as well that you're facing and I think that's got a lot to do with what you said, especially those stats.
Speaker 2:Feeling like you're useless and worthless. I mean, I know, for me, I need purpose. Yeah, yeah, of course I need a purpose in order to achieve like a goal or a dream or a passion. For me. It keeps me going.
Speaker 2:Yep, now I find that in today's day and age and I'm very passionate about the youth of today yeah, yeah, I feel a growing urge and urgency, should I say, to really like help today's youth.
Speaker 2:And the reason I say that is because I feel today's youth, specifically, is very different to our generation's youth when we were getting raised up. Of course, yeah, when you go back one generation, there was a lot more or a lot clearer definition or role when it came to the role of a man and the role of a woman. And again, please, let me not say I'm not saying that we have to go back and regress, I'm not saying that this is we need to go back to those times. I'm just saying that, when you look back one generation or two generations before us, there was very clear definition in the purpose of a man and the purpose of a woman. Yeah, of course. And, like we said, when we have purpose, we feel like we can keep going. Yeah, of course we do. Yeah, so we've got some nowadays. Yeah, and and I think it sparks from the whole feminism movement that is kind of that has kind of just grown in the last 10, 15, 20 years. If you want to go from there, yeah, about this, this gender equality and and I'm going to start off by and please again, I know this is going to really get people's You're getting the chicks fired up, or it might even be guys, it doesn't matter, but I
Speaker 2:know that people are already going to be rearing up, and let me start off by saying when I say gender equality, I am all for gender equality, I am all for equal rights and equal opportunities for men and women. Okay, I, I'm not against it, and I love the fact that women are saying you know, we, I'm fully behind women when they say we want the same opportunities. We want, we want to be able to achieve whatever goal it is that we want to achieve, exactly the same as a man. Okay, what I'm saying is, I do feel that in that a lot of the women are saying that we want to take the role of a man, for instance, provider, and say we don't need men to provide, we can provide for ourselves, which is making men and men are going okay, that's great, yeah, great, yeah, we cannot have kids, yep. So a man can't go and say, okay, well, you be the provider then. Yeah, I will now go be the family starter.
Speaker 3:It doesn't work that way. No, because we can't have kids or anything like that.
Speaker 2:So what are we being? What is the purpose of a man, then, being replaced with, if not the provider and the protector?
Speaker 3:That's exactly right, because we can't stay at home with. Well, we can't have kids, we can't stay at home. We can stay at home, we can't have kids, we can't have kids and all that. So, like what you were saying before, like yeah, so they want to replace that and the woman becomes, I guess you could say in the man's position yeah, you're 100% right, what are we left with?
Speaker 2:So Richard Reeves, who's an incredible I heard him say that there's this question mark that is now being placed, when you ask, in front of man, when you ask, what is the purpose of man, is this question mark that's now being placed in front of him, and he does some excellent research into this whole space of what it is to raise a, you know, a generation of men that have purpose, and I encourage anyone. He's got an incredible book out. It's called of mass and men. Okay, yep, and it's not the novel that we read and we were in school, um, but it's an incredible novel where he talks about, yep, uh, this younger generation that needs to be raised up and given a purpose, the question mark behind a man needs to be given something in order for them to raise up with purpose and not to just raise up and be like, well, if there's nothing left for me to do, I might as well just leave. Yeah, of course, because what's the point of me?
Speaker 3:Well, that's exactly right. If you've been replaced of the provider, the carer, the man of the house, so to speak, and that's been taken away from you, where do you go?
Speaker 2:from there. What do you do? Yeah, exactly what's my purpose in life?
Speaker 3:Because I remember growing up, when I was a kid, my dad was always like no, you know, cut it out, you'll be all right, just harden up. All you've got to do is just go to work and make money and all that. So that was my mentality growing up, thinking, okay, I've got to go to work, eventually I'm going to have a wife, have kids and then I'll provide for them. Yeah, that was me, and I'm only 34, 35 in November. So you know, like the newer generations, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you know? A kind of this perception of society needs to be a patriarch. Yeah, so, and you know what I mean by patriarch. Patriarch means that obviously one is better than the other. Yeah, yeah, yep, you know. Patriarchy is very. What's the word I'm looking for? I want to say old school, it's very-.
Speaker 3:You're talking about, like what's that Sheila's name? Jonah Barktober? That's a patriarchy thing.
Speaker 2:Well, patriarchy is basically saying that you have one particular gender or one particular culture that is better than the other and therefore rules over all and in this particular one. We're saying that men have to be better than women and we have to suppress women, and in some cultures that is the case, as we know, in the Middle East, and I'm not saying that that's right. Yeah, it's completely wrong. I feel like we need to get away, and that's what the whole feminist movement is is to say that we don't want a patriarchy.
Speaker 2:We want to be on equal footing with men. Perfect, great, that's fine. Yeah, I also feel like we need to get away from this term of androgyny which androgyny means there is absolutely no difference between a male and a female.
Speaker 3:I've never heard of that word, so I'm glad you explained it.
Speaker 2:So it's creating this where there's absolutely no difference. A man is exactly the same as a woman, okay, okay. Now again, I'm not saying that you can't be afforded equal rights. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, what I'm saying is a man and a woman have very different roles yeah, okay, okay and are different in their genetic makeup, and you and I had this conversation before air Shev. Yeah, yeah, we did. Yep, is that when my wife comes to me with a problem that she has? Yeah, yeah, okay. And let's just, for instance, say, I've got this issue at work, yep, okay, this colleague, whoever I work with, gives me the shits, okay, yeah, yeah, of course, I cannot stand like they do this, they piss me off in this way, or whatever the case is. Yep, but here's my problem, yep.
Speaker 3:What is your initial response? My initial response is and as I said, we were talking about this, off air is okay, so tell me about it. What can I do to help?
Speaker 2:Yeah, what can I do to fix it Exactly? Do you need me to go to your boss? Have a chat with your boss Like, let's look at it logically? How can you solve the problem logically? Yep, 90% of the time. Logically Yep, 90% of the time. Okay, my wife will say to me I hate how logic you are, how logical you are. I hate how you logic everything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know, and I've noticed just doing this podcast, I've noticed that coming out in you as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm very logical, I'm very like I want to solve it. I don't see the emotional side of it sometimes where she'll come and she's just like sometimes she's just venting. Yeah, of course. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying anyone who listens that my wife does have a problem with a colleague. That was just an example. But I'm saying, with any issue that she might come to me with, yeah, yeah, is I might not. My first response is not an emotional one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my first response is not an emotional one. Yeah, okay, so it's not like getting angry, it's not like getting angry, and that's not my first response.
Speaker 2:Yep, inherently, I think a man's responsive nature is always logical and how to fix the problem, yeah, okay, whereas with a woman it's very different.
Speaker 4:If I go to a problem to my wife.
Speaker 2:The first thing she's going to do is very emotional. She's going to hug me. She's going to like love me. She's going to be like what do you need from me? Yeah, yeah, how can I make you feel better? Like what do you need? Like that's her. And she wants to nurture the emotional side of me rather than go okay, let's fix it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so she's obviously trying to let you know that she cares for you, she cares, she's nurturing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course. That's why I think we've even said it right in the beginning, when we first started was that women, inherently, are more nurturing. Yeah, yeah, of course they are and again, I'll say this again because I think I'm going to say it throughout the podcast Generally, it's a very general term.
Speaker 3:I was just about to say. This is all generalization, it's very general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't want anyone to get offended to say that men can't be nurturing. Yes, sure, men can be nurturing and men can be emotional, and that's fine. Yeah, but what I'm saying is inherently, if you look at the genetic makeup of men generally, our first response is going to be logical. Yeah, of course it's logic, it's fixing, it's solving, it's like how do we, you know? And that's okay, like there's nothing wrong to say no. What I feel sometimes is there needs to be an understanding between men and women. Yeah, yeah, we don't want a man to act exactly the same way as a woman. No, and we don't want a woman to act exactly the same way as a man. Can you imagine? There's a reason why one has a Y chromosome and one has an X chromosome. Yeah, we are genetically made up differently from the moment we are born. We don't get to choose that. It is given to us for a specific reason and that is acting the way that you were initially given.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's just the roll of the dice, that's just the cards you've been dealt and, as I said to you before, we don't want to be the same as women. Because imagine how boring life would be if everyone was the same. Can you imagine how boring that would be?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a reason why we think differently and we act differently, and that's okay. What I feel like as a society needs to happen is that we need to have an understanding of why men act a certain way and what do they need in order to feel useful or given purpose is what we're saying, what is the purpose that we can give them so that they feel useful, they feel like they have worth and they're giving worth and they're gaining worth from that? Therefore, reducing the stat of male suicide and in that I think my perception obviously that will then automatically influence the side of a woman. Yeah, of course, because I generally feel that a lot of the rates that are increasing at the moment are due to that specific fact of what is the purpose? Youth crime rates and let's look at Australia and specifically youth crime rates are going through the roof at the moment.
Speaker 3:Especially in Queensland. In Queensland, yeah, in Northern Territories as well. Why, I've got no idea.
Speaker 2:If you ask any single person who's involved in that industry where they go in and they say we're trying to change that stat, so they're involved in youth work or youth reform or anything like that. If you interview them, they always say to you that the reason these kids do that is twofold. One yeah, what else do I have to do? Yeah, I've got no other. I've got no other purpose, so that's my purpose.
Speaker 2:And then number two yeah, I just need something fun to do yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, right yeah so those are the two main reasons that that those kind of things are on their eyes yeah, I'm just trying to let everything sink in as you're talking.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know, that's what I think we need to change.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I feel like society is-.
Speaker 3:We need to pave the way for younger kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just it's frustrating because I feel like we're allowing our kids the space to grow, which is fantastic, yeah. It's just frustrating because I feel like we're allowing our kids the space to grow, which is fantastic, yeah, yeah. But in that we're sacrificing the expectation of what it is for them to be a functioning member of society. So the reason why I say that is that education levels are dropping all over the world. And why do you think that is all over the world? And what do you think that is All over the world? And because education systems are going okay. The benchmark for education used to be X, y and Z. Now we're dropping it to Y and Z. And then we're going to drop it to Z because now we're creating a bigger space for people to just. We want to include more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so is that what you think it is? Well, I don't know. I mean, this is me spitballing and I'm sorry if I offend anyone, I'm not.
Speaker 2:My goal is not to offend anyone. My goal is to create an awareness, to say what is the purpose we are giving specifically young men nowadays so that when they grow up yeah, they grow up with purpose, yeah, so that when they become adults they are ingrained with the purpose that they already know. They have to be functioning human beings, to be functioning people in society, to be people that have an aim.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:What is their reason for being on this earth? Yeah, yeah, you know, and I think that, for me, is the key thing that I'm trying to get across here. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yep Is not to knock education systems, it's not to say that one person or one gender is better than the other. That's not at all what I'm saying. No, that's not what we're trying to do here. No, what I'm saying is there is an inherent need for men to now be given a role in society and to make sure that they know what that role is. Yep, because the question mark at the moment is not good enough.
Speaker 3:No, that's exactly right. It's not good enough and sometimes it just feels like we're just yeah, we go to work, we do our bit, and we're just yeah, we go to work, we do our bit, and like we're just used for you know, procreation. Well, yeah, even that, like Do you know what I mean? It's interesting you say that I tried to say it so it doesn't come across bad. But yeah, sorry, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I mean it's fine.
Speaker 3:I mean, like I said, that's what it feels like we just go to work every day and we just use for the female to repropriate, repropriate.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, I'm loving this yeah. It's like me and statistics Propricate?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that'll do. I love this. That sucks. You said it right. The first time.
Speaker 2:I did, I did.
Speaker 3:I can't say it now Repropriate, repropriate, repropriate. This sucks, but you get what I'm saying. Yes, yes, yes. That's what it feels like anyway.
Speaker 2:I think the reason why you're saying that is because a lot of if you, obviously, when it comes to the whole feminist movement that is going around at the moment, the number one phrase I think that is being thrown around quite easily, which is frustrating to me because I don't think that is the purpose of the feminist movement, but it's the one phrase that I hear quite often is that a lot of feminists will say well, we don't need men, yep, all you're useful for is making babies. Exactly right, and that is sort of what I was trying to get across, which is contradictory in its own state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you think about it. Of course it is In order for survival of mankind. You need men, yeah, and it's what you said before, but you're saying you don't need us at the same time.
Speaker 3:We don't need you. We want to be equal.
Speaker 2:Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, we want to have a family Now again, I'm not saying the feminist movement is bad, oh, of course not, because inherently the feminist movement is all about equal rights. Yeah, of course, and me and Shane are all for that. 100% yeah, everyone should have an equal standing in order to achieve whatever it is that they set out to achieve, as long as they are not walking over anyone else.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
Speaker 2:If it's a CEO of a company and it's like for like, it shouldn't matter about whether you're male or female 100% agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% agree. There should be no specific benefit or whatever cases. Are there roles in society that maybe are better suited for men than there are for women? Of course I mean. Jordan Pearson talks about it quite openly. He says why is it that 99% of bricklayers are men? Well, yeah, actually funny story, I've actually heard that yeah, 99% of bricklayers. Is that to say that women can't be bricklayers? No, yeah, women can go be bricklayers, but they don't want to. Yeah, of bricolage, but they don't want to? Yeah, of course that's not. Then, you know, the genetic makeup maybe is not of one that they want to go and lay bricks all day. Yeah, yeah, whereas for men they're strong, they, you know they might be yes, you know, suited to that kind of occupation.
Speaker 1:Of course, another one is yeah.
Speaker 2:Another one is, um, smoke jumpers. Do you know what a smoke jumper is in america? I've never heard of it. So a smoke jumper is, it's's like they're part of, like the fire kind of brigade I'll fucking call it like that. But basically, you know, they have these massive wildfires in the States, yeah, yeah, of course. So smokejumpers basically come in and they parachute into these wildfires and they go ahead of them and what they do is they create burn lines in order to try and stop the fire from spreading. So they'll literally parachute in the middle or in the front of these massive wildfires and they will create these burn lines for the fire then to kind of die in that particular. Now they put themselves in extremely dangerous positions, you know, and they sometimes are there for days on end. You know, creating these safe environments, 99% of smokejumpers are men.
Speaker 2:There's no saying. There's nothing in their statutation that says a woman can't be, but it's just naturally men are high risk takers. Yeah, yeah, and I say that because there's a study that's gone out that says and the reason why I say that it's not to say all women don't take risks and it's not to say that all men take risks more, but companies that have a woman CEO and a woman CFO CEO and a woman CFO are more likely to survive. They have a longevity. They're more likely to succeed longevity wise in the long term. But we'll have a far less growth on the graph, if you want to call it, so they don't grow as quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, so they take a lot longer to grow. They take a lot longer to grow, but their sustainability is longer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, okay, whereas a company that has a male CEO and a male CFO again generalization, please. This was just a general study. Yep, on the average, they will take more risks, so their growth will be higher, but their sustainability might be shorter.
Speaker 3:So their business might not last as long as the woman's.
Speaker 2:Companies that had a male or female CEO and an opposite male or female CFO so they had one of each saw sustainable growth for sustainable periods of time, so it was sort of middle of the road, type of.
Speaker 3:Thing.
Speaker 2:Now what that shows you is that men inherently are risk takers. Yeah, of course it does. Yeah, they are not afraid to take risks. Yeah, smoke jumping, for instance. Yeah, like I said, it's a risky job. Yeah, a risky job. Risk taking Inherently when women sort of take the Men were firefighters.
Speaker 3:Easy around.
Speaker 2:Men were firefighters. Men were inherently like police cops. Yeah, yeah, All these particular when you're putting yourself in danger is risky. Yeah yeah, they were inherently men's jobs. Yeah, Now shout out to all the female police officers, female firefighters, and if you're a female smoke jumper, shout out to you. Like I said, it's a very general average stat out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, shout out to all the ladies that take a risk. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:We love you, by the way, so, basically, what I'm saying is, when we obviously talk about this masculinity, what does it mean to have healthy masculinity in order then to create a space where we can, you know, have men share and not feel like they need to, then, you know, hold anything back, like being vulnerable at the same time, or sharing emotions? Actually, I asked a few females before this. I said what does healthy masculinity look like to you? Okay, this would be interesting. Yeah, one of the things that came back which I found very interesting was men using their strength to protect, not harm.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that's what I read as well in the healthy, like different healthy examples.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because one was like nonviolence and nurturing. So yeah, like just nonviolence to people, obviously women, and then yeah, just yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think I did read that. I don't think any human being and I say human being for the sake of I want to be very gender neutral on this Yep I don't think any human being should ever exert any form of dominance over someone else based on the fact that they're either bigger, stronger or whatever the case is. Yep, you should not use that strength or the fact that you are bigger or anything for your gain in any way if it means that you're going to harm someone else. Yeah, of course that is not acceptable in any culture. Standard gender I don't care who you are, yeah, yeah. So the reason why I say that is because, inherently, when we look at Boeing back in time, when we looked at the fact that most men were police officers or firefighters, men are generally- Miners and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, our initial response is always protective. Oh yeah, of course it is. Yeah. Like you know there was a I don't know if you've ever seen some of these clips of these dads with their kids in like, either at home, or there was one specific one where a dad took his kid to a baseball game and the guy, the batter on the mound hit the ball, but the bat came out of his hand and was flying into the crowd towards this kid and he had his arm in and his picture of this dad who puts his arm.
Speaker 3:Yes, I did see that. That is an amazing, if anyone's seen that that is a bloody good sign.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's unbelievable. That would have hurt his arm. But what I'm saying is like the dad. If you ask the dad, when he was interviewed after that, he didn't think about that. He didn't have to weigh up his options of going. Do I put my arm here? What is the risk of me putting my arm? It was a natural reaction. It was a natural reaction for him to protect his son. Yeah, of course, yep.
Speaker 3:Is there an interview on that?
Speaker 2:He was interviewed afterwards by the news and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:I would like to check the news.
Speaker 2:If you look at the crowd around him of the females and please again not generalizing a lot of the females their initial response was duck for cover.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did say that Duck for cover. Because I know exactly the photo you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's inherently ingrained in a man to protect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:Now, the reason why I'm saying that is because we should be using that protection in order to, you know, enhance those around us. Yeah, exactly, not harm people. So that's why I say like there's this misconception and that's why I think, if we can get this definitive answer, the question mark for a lot of men and what their purpose is, you know, in society, in their specific culture, whatever it is, if we can answer that question mark for them and give them a purpose and a name and whatever that is in order to succeed in life, and allow them the space and the support to do that, I, I genuinely feel that that'll, that'll kind of bring a lot more direction for them. And and and I feel like society sometimes yeah, I don't know I feel like society is very harsh, yeah, it is Sometimes we don't allow In this day and age it's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people judge a book by its cover very quickly.
Speaker 2:It's very harsh, we're very judgmental, yes, very quickly. It's very harsh, we're very judgmental, yes. And I'll go back to my favorite, obviously, tv show being Mr Ted Lasso. Who, ted Lasso? Never heard of it? Oh, stop it. Who's Ted? You've got to watch Ted Lasso. It's the best.
Speaker 3:So that's the actual TV show's name.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Ted Lasso. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. But the laugh lessons in that TV series is just astounding.
Speaker 3:Is it from South Africa?
Speaker 2:No, it's Jason Sudeikis. Oh my word he became famous from SNL. He was on when the Millers, the movie when the Millers. I'll have to check this out Anyway.
Speaker 3:Jason Sudeikis this is why I like doing the podcast with you, because you're a very educational person. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Anyway, in this in Ted Lasso, one of his defining, obviously, things that he says is that he refers to this. He's playing a game against someone else, but one of his defining moments in this whole thing was that he speaks about. You know, he was bullied as a kid and then he saw the sign and it said be curious, not judgmental. Okay, and the reason why he's saying that is because- I think I've heard that saying before, I've said it on this podcast before.
Speaker 3:There you go. That's where I've heard it from.
Speaker 2:You sometimes scare me.
Speaker 4:But be curious.
Speaker 2:Rather than be judgmental Meaning, let's ask the question of why do people do the things that they do and gain understanding, rather than just label them straight away. Yeah, okay, yep, you know, it's that whole. Let's walk a step or a mile in someone else's shoes before you start judging.
Speaker 3:Yeah, of course, a lot of people are too quick to judge, and those people are fighting battles that you don't know about Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and so, yeah, I guess for me it's just saying let's be curious into why men are doing what they're doing. Not to accept the behavior. It's not to say that we are accepting what they're doing is right, but why is it? What is the root cause of this, causing these things to be like that, and how can we solve that so that future generations don't have the same problem? Because we all know things like domestic violence are not acceptable. Oh, absolutely not, they're not acceptable. Yeah, the thing with women feeling unsafe when they're walking home at night is not acceptable. No, the thing with women feeling unsafe when they're walking home at night is not acceptable. No, that's yeah, you know, mm-hmm, there should be this balance in the world, and I think that's what we've lost. Is this balance between what is the role of a man and what is the role of a woman? Yeah, and that's not to say that they can't overlap. No, of course not. But there still needs to be times when, okay, this is my role, and the reason why I say that is I think that men are becoming very passive nowadays.
Speaker 2:So, for instance, I am a culprit of this myself. My wife will say to me what do you feel like for dinner and I'll just be like I don't know. Whatever you feel like, yeah, that's a very passive answer. Yeah, and ultimately, what she's doing is she's asking me because she wants direction, she wants something. She's like help me.
Speaker 2:Like passivity is not a good thing. Yeah, you know, we often say that you need to be active when we do things, not reactive. Yeah, you know, think ahead, yeah, so, and that's why I say passivity is like not the way that we, so we, we can't sit there and go, okay, well, this, this, this thing with domestic violence, or it's just going to solve itself. That's being passive. Yeah, of course it is. Let's. What is the reason that men are acting this way and then say it's not acceptable? Yep, let's change it so it doesn't happen again. So let's create a, let's create a culture of healthy masculinity that is supportive, that is encouraging, that still has a space to grow in, whatever they are doing, yep, but that is still aligned to the fact that, hey, this is my role and what my purpose is, in order to succeed in life and make me feel like I have a goal and a vision and a purpose. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I think, if I can put it this way the question mark has to be at the end of that. It has to be you are end of every. At the end of that it has to be you are needed Because, yeah, you are needed, you are valued, yeah, you are important. Like it has to be that, just like it is for a woman. Yeah, it has to be on both fronts. Yeah, that has to be the key thing. And how are you needed? Now needs to be answered.
Speaker 3:Because I think if you put all that together and all that sort of stuff and you do that, I think you will knock a lot of that ugly stuff out you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like you said, I 100% feel like that suicide rate would drop Exactly.
Speaker 3:And not just that, just the domestic violence you were just talking about. Yeah, that will follow suit. Yeah, that's what I feel. Anyway, I feel that it will knock all that stuff out.
Speaker 2:Any person that has had any form of like reform, which means they've had like a change. So if they have attempted suicide and then come back and been like I'm in a good place now, yeah. Or a drug addict that has come out of that and has now been clean or been freed of any addiction being clean or being freed of any addiction, any person that has come out of any sense of reform. If you ask them what is why, they said because I have a purpose, I have a new purpose, I have a new goal, I know what I'm doing. So what we need to do is find a purpose, and how often do those people then become counselors or become people that help others, because their purpose then becomes. I know what it's like to be in that place and therefore my goal, my purpose, is to help someone, yeah, who is going through that.
Speaker 3:Hence the reason why I'm doing this with you because I've been down that shitty road and I feel like every week or every fortnight that we do this together. I get a good satisfaction out of this because it feels like I'm helping someone.
Speaker 2:Yeah so yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm helping someone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, yeah, so I'm hoping other people can do that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, like exactly what you said, like hoping other people feel like purpose that go. You know that are in a good place and go. Oh yeah, I can help that other person now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's just a matter of the chain reaction, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 2:absolutely. Well, I mean, it's funny, we've actually we thought okay, because most of our guests would realize that we normally open with a bit of a jingle as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we changed it up a bit today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, keep our listeners on our toes. We got straight into it today.
Speaker 3:But you're all fired up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I told you I'm passionate about this.
Speaker 3:No, but that's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I'm just saying I noticed that this morning when I got in. Yeah, yeah, shane's fired up. Yeah, I'm fired up.
Speaker 2:That's good, but we did come up with a bit of a jingle yeah, go for it, knock it out which we'll play for our listeners now. But basically it's the question of if we have to say, what does it mean to be a man? Yeah, and this journey that men are going through in society. So we've created this song about that and maybe it's to ask a couple of questions in the song and it's basically, if I can say it, it's come from a perspective of the questions that we as men ask ourselves in this journey of life. Yeah, yeah, so I'll play it for you. Yeah, hit it and all our listeners and hopefully you know, you get a sense of what I'm trying to achieve out of this. So, so here we go, let's give it a go.
Speaker 3:Give it a crack.
Speaker 4:Stand tall, they say. Show no tears. Be strong, never reveal your fears. Chasing dreams will lose you away In this game that we all play. Pressured builds can't escape the grind. Hide the pain. Keep it all inside. Was this show from everywhere who to be, what to wear? What it means Trying hard to understand? Find the truth before we fall In the mirror? Who do we see Fighting battles to feel free, lifting weights to carry shame, left confused in this big game. What it means to be a man Trying hard to understand Cut the ties and break the mold. Find the truth before we fold. What it means to be a man Trying hard to understand Cut the ties and break them all. Find the truth before we fall.
Speaker 3:How good's that Nice little jingle? Hey, it is awesome. And how good is it that it's sung by a woman? Yeah, how good, how good, eh. We love our women, trust me. No, again, I don't want women to feel like this is a personal attack sung by a woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how good, how good eh. We love our women, trust me. Yeah, no, again, like I don't want women to feel like this is a whole.
Speaker 3:This is a personal attack.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a personal attack. Like I am again, I'll say this again I am all for the fact where I'm like, I want equal rights for women. Yeah, of course, I want every single human and I'm going to say this I want every single human being to have equal rights. I want them to be the fact where, um, it doesn't matter about culture, it doesn't matter about gender, no, it doesn't matter about the. You know what language you speak it that's exactly right.
Speaker 4:Everyone deserves. Everyone deserves a voice and everyone deserves equal opportunity.
Speaker 2:I 100% agree with you, so. So that's why I'm saying like this is not a knock against the feminist movement in any way. This is a knock against the fact where I'm saying the suicide rate being four times higher is not acceptable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, something has gone wrong in the connection, yeah, and we need to figure out what the hell is going on.
Speaker 2:You can see this with the fact that there's these huge, like men's movements, and one of the ones that we were speaking about before was this whole men's shed yes, and that's what I was saying to you before.
Speaker 3:There's, uh, one singleton which is great all the old, all the oldies get down there like their old boys get down there, they build stuff and everything. Yeah, it's just this.
Speaker 2:This purpose gives them purpose to still, like you know, be able to share their journeys with people that are understanding in the same kind of thing. Yeah, and I feel like you know we talk about Talk To Me, bro, is another one that they initially started out as a men's group and have now obviously diversified and have men and women involved. Yep, but the initial kind of concept was we started off as a men's mental health thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for men to actually speak up, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I think for me it's just a case of to say, as a society, shiv, nowadays, what purpose can we give our young kids that would put them in a better standing for future, that they're not going to feel like they are purposeless? Or worthless or invaluable in any way, and I think that comes from we've got to remember life is very it's filled with ups and downs.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course it's a rollercoaster and I think we need to learn to. I say learn, but I think we need to. We need to learn to. I say learn, but I think kids need to learn from an early age how to manage disappointment. Yeah, because every single human being, no matter how much we protect, how much we we want to shield our kids, or whatever the case is, yep, disappoint, disappointment, is inevitable in some shape or form.
Speaker 3:And when you asked that question before, I was actually going to say funny story, I was actually going to say this as well that in today's society it's a bit upsetting because even if you lose, you will always get a participation award, which, yeah, which. What I'm saying is you understand why?
Speaker 2:because you want to feel everyone is like, but at the same time, the disappointment thing, that's what I'm trying is you understand why? Because you want to feel everyone is like but at the same time the disappointment thing, that's what I'm trying to connect it to is like-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, At the same time like everyone's going to face moments in life where it's like, hey, sorry, you didn't get it Exactly right and that's what I'm trying to say is like when you get older so as a kid, getting a participation award and all that, yeah, fair enough, whatever, whether it be a running race or sport or whatever it is but when you get older, life doesn't work. Like that Life exactly what you just said, mate. You're going to have a rollercoaster of a ride where you are going to be disappointed, and I don't think people are ready for that. When I say I don't think people are ready for that, I'm thinking young kids when they grow up, because they haven't been trained.
Speaker 2:I don't think they've learned to be able to handle that.
Speaker 3:Exactly right, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. So when they get older, I think that's where society's gone wrong a little bit, where because they might be so overwhelmed with it. That's why maybe, as I said, I'm just spitballing, but that's maybe where the suicide rate comes in, because they can't handle that. Yeah, they can't handle the disappointment. Or you're not good enough. No, sorry, you didn't get that job interview. No, sorry, you come fourth instead of third, second or first or whatever it may be, and the disappointment is very big. Yeah, and I think, as I said, I don't know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not anything like that, I'm not a professional. But I think maybe that's to do with some of the stats as well. Maybe I mean, yeah, education is probably another one as well. Oh, I mean yeah. So there's a lot of things you know what I mean Like education, yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of things, obviously, that's going to contribute to it, but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think we just need to establish the fact that, okay, let's teach our kids that gender is not a form of superiority. No, so no gender is superior to another. Nope that equal rights for all, whether it be female, male, whether you be from this land or another land like it, should be a base setting for everything. And that is what you get.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's based on are you capable of fulfilling the role? On your ability alone, not on the fact that one is from Australia and one is from Europe, for instance. That's just a silly example?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, one is from Australia and one is from South Africa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, potentially.
Speaker 2:No, I 100% understand what you're saying, so yeah, so I think healthy masculinity, if we can put it this way, is masculinity that uses their characteristics in order to uplift, in order to protect like we said was the word and to grow others around us, rather for selfish gain, for selfish purpose, and so in order to create a society that is inclusive of everyone, rather than putting me above everyone else, yeah, yeah, and that's what I think. The whole the danger in instant gratification, self-gratification, it's like I can do it on my own, I don't need anyone else. Yep, it creates this mold where, well, if I don't need anyone else, I can walk over everyone else to get what I need. Yeah, yeah, and because I don't need you, therefore, I can walk over everyone else to get what I need. Yeah, yeah, and because I don't need you, therefore, I can treat you however I feel, yeah, yeah, whereas if I feel like it doesn't matter in what small and that's the whole Ubuntu concept that I was saying to you, right, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:In the first episode. Yes, is that I am because you are? Is that I am because you are? Because every single person we have in our life affects us and has influence on us, whether we think so or not. Yeah, yeah, and we treat everyone with the respect, with the generosity, with whatever it is. We treat everyone the way that we would like to be treated.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent, and that is my philosophy. I love that. Yeah, just in everyday life, if someone talks to you like rubbish, you know, I always talk to them like rubbish back, yeah, do you know what I mean? And then they wonder why, and it's like well, you know, mate, if you want a good response, talk to me, good, and I'll be like I'll bend over backwards for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so healthy masculinity is definitely. And I feel like this whole thing where we're saying like men can't show emotion, the old school ways of that yeah, a hundred percent. We should feel like we can show our emotions and be however we would like to be in the moment In saying that I do not feel that because we don't show emotion makes it wrong. Let me say that. So, for me, if I'm not getting emotional in a situation that you feel maybe you would get emotional in, that doesn't mean that my response is wrong. Yeah, okay, that just might be because I process things completely differently to you.
Speaker 3:Well, that's exactly right. It's a characteristic. Yeah, all human beings work differently. Our minds work differently, so yeah, Just because I'm upset at something doesn't mean you're going to be yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think this whole movement of healthy masculinity is great, because we need to create men that are sustainable in society, that add value, that get purpose, that benefit not only themselves but every single one around them. Yeah, At what cost is the question and what is their role that they can do? How do they get to that position where they're doing that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Because currently the cost is the suicide rate Currently. Yeah, so yeah, and obviously Shane and myself want to get behind that and try and minimize that as much as we can. Hence the reason why we're talking about, you know, male masculinity, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think the thing with suicide is that I don't think you realize the part that suicide plays in a person's life until you're encountered with it personally. Yeah, so until either someone you care about or you love has gone through that and you personally experienced that, do you really get how important it is to have these kind of conversations, to have the fact that we're like this is not acceptable and to stand up, Because I don't think that if you have that encounter where you have someone you care about, there's no ways that you can just sit and go well, I don't care.
Speaker 3:Well, that's exactly right. I've always said I think I've said it in previous podcasts that suicide is a temporary solution. Yeah, so suicide is a permanent solution sorry to a temporary solution To a temporary problem. That's the one. Temporary suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, sorry, yeah, that's what I said, but you know then, that's yeah. What I'm trying to say is like everything can be fixed, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I'm saying, Sorry, listen. The temporary problem with men is that what is the question mark? What is it worth the moment you answer that it creates a permanent solution.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right, everything can be fixed and, as you said, have those conversations. Yeah, and you're not sure. There's no such thing as a stupid question or a stupid answer. No, just ask man. If you need help, just ask.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, you know yeah. So to round off, yeah, can I just end off by saying this once and for all yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, equal rights.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, no individual is superior to another. No, no. And that goes on gender, that goes on culture, it goes on whatever you would like to throw in front of that.
Speaker 3:Whether you're black, white, pink, purple, yellow, whatever Doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:So this is not a stab. This is for me to say that, hey, there is a growing issue in young men that needs to be addressed, and I am happy to have the conversation to be like hey, how can we help young men find purpose before it's too late? Yeah, exactly right, Before they go. I feel worthless, I feel useless. Therefore, it is better for me not to be here.
Speaker 3:Point them in the right direction.
Speaker 2:Point them in the right direction, and that has to be a thing that women say we own part of that. Absolutely we own part of that journey. Yeah, this is not about men just being like, well, we need to do this. This is men and women standing together and saying how can we solve this problem in young men?
Speaker 3:Well, that's exactly right. They need to. Yeah, yeah. As you said, they need to own it as well.
Speaker 2:Own it as well. Yeah, so that's my passion. No, that's good. Hey, that's my passion.
Speaker 3:No, that's good. Hey, that's like I mean you've done, obviously, like majority of the talking in this episode. Yeah. Because, you're very fired up. Sorry to everyone who doesn't like the sound of my voice. No, no, it's all good. No, it's great and I enjoy listening and, you know, very passionate about this subject. Yeah, and I think it's great. I think it's something that needs to be talked about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I encourage if there's any young men that are listening to this? Sure, and I'll start off by saying this Let me say this first, because young men I feel like there's a when I say this. There's a bit of a friendship crisis going on in young men at the moment. Yeah, okay, young men need good friends around them, absolutely. They need to feel like they're not alone, that they have backing, support, whether that be female, whether that be male. Whatever the case is, they need young, they need friends.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Communication with their mates is very important at that age and so I want to say to anyone who's listening to this that is feeling like they're alone, that they do not have someone to talk to or they do not have somewhere to go reach out.
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely, reach out on our socials.
Speaker 2:Yep, we never want anyone to feel that, no, and so I can say if anyone is sending out a friendship request, please send it to me. Yeah, sure, send it to Live Aloud on podcast, we'll be your friend? Yeah, of course, we will be your friend, exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if you just need to talk or just a small, conversation.
Speaker 2:Shiv is great at talking he will love to talk to me.
Speaker 3:I'll talk to anyone. Exactly, shiv loves to chat. Don't talk to Shane, because it might be hard to understand with the South African accent. No, I'm joking, no but seriously, shane's 100% correct. You know 100% correct. You know, like we're happy to talk to anyone, especially if you're feeling, like you know, very vulnerable and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, as Shane said, send us a request, yeah.
Speaker 2:Send us a message, john. Send a friend request. Send a message. Get in touch with us on Instagram.
Speaker 3:Facebook. Send it out there, shiv, yeah, exactly, yes, yeah, alleluia, amen, hallelujah, but seriously, because we don't want to see people go down that dark road to where it's going to lead to suicide, we want to help people.
Speaker 2:I'll be your friend, speak up, we will talk. What's that word? What's that song? You got a friend in me. Oh, that's by Toy Story. Well, it's not by Toy Story, it's in Toy Story. It is in Toy Story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's that song? I don't know. You tell me, why Can't we Be Friends? I forget who the band is. Oh, yeah, ah geez. I heard it on 2NRFM the other day.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's a very interesting radio station to be listening to.
Speaker 3:You know why I listen to 2N to any of you, because I don't play the same shit over and over and over again. Interesting.
Speaker 2:Anyway, we digress, we digress. So yeah, if anyone needs a friend, please shout out to us. Obviously our socials and we'll send it out there now. Yeah, definitely Leave a lot on podcast. That's on Instagram, facebook and obviously Chevy's favorite TikTok Absolutely. Reach out, reach, favorite TikTok, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Reach out. Reach out definitely. Send us a message or whatever. Get in touch with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah because, you never know, it might be the start of a great friendship.
Speaker 3:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:So can I just say, yeah, reach out, let's create a generation now that has purpose. Yeah, of course, our purpose in this podcast is to reduce that stat and every other stat when it comes to suicide, not just that one, yeah, of course. And so to everyone who's listened, thank you for sticking around till right at the end. To all my feminist peeps out there my fine sister, I'm all for you.
Speaker 3:We love you. Bros and broettes, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So yeah, just get the conversation started. Get the conversation started. So thank you very much for listening today.
Speaker 3:Shev, yeah, no, that's awesome, appreciate it. Thank you for giving me the platform. Oh no, that's alright. Well, as I said, I was just letting you go hammer and tongs yeah hammer and tongs and yeah that was good. I think today's episode was a good episode.
Speaker 2:Good episode, so thank you very much. Appreciate it To all those who are listening. Please reach out on our socials, get a hold of us, share the love, and thank you once again for listening and from us here at Leave a Light On podcast Stay safe, stay safe, be kind and let's leave a light on.
Speaker 1:Hey, thanks for listening. We hope you've managed to gain some insight from today's episode. Jump onto our socials and reach out, and until next time, wherever you are, let's leave a light on.