The Healthier Home Studio Podcast

How I Learned Emotional Intelligence - with Emily Dolan Davies

• Chris Graham • Season 1 • Episode 5

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HypeMiC-13:

Before we get into the episode today, just a quick heads up. I had a little bit of trouble with the audio on this, interview, but I wanted to publish it because. I think it's probably one of the best podcast episodes I've ever done. I've covered up some of the audio issues, uh, with electric guitar. In the background. I hope you guys enjoy, if it's too much, let me know. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode.

HypeMiC-9:

my guest today on the show is Emily Dolan Davies. She is a touring and recording drummer from the UK, and she's worked with artists like Brian ferry, the darkness, Kim Wilde. In many more. She, she's amazing. her energy is absolutely incredible. one of the things we're going to talk about today is the way that emotional intelligence can be the biggest game changer, not just in your career, but in your life as well.

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

well hey everybody, welcome to the show today. I have one of my favorite people on earth, hanging out with us today. Coming in over the star link from the other side of the pond. Miss similarly Doland Davies. And I am so excited and I get so nervous whenever I say your name that I'm gonna say it wrong or I'm gonna accidentally put too much of a British accent on it.

Emily!:

Dude I love that Please go ahead like Christopher J Graham please always say my name in whatever accent you want

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Emily doling,

Emily!:

Emily Dolan Emily Dolan Davies That's halfway between British and Australian I feel

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

yeah. Yeah. E exactly. Ex

Emily!:

like it

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

I'm just so excited to hang out with you today. you're one of my favorite people on earth. And I'm working on this new podcast, the Healthier Home Studio. And as I'm thinking through, ugh, look at, I don't know how to say this, but the legacy of what I've taught, on podcasts in the past about the business of working in and around recording studios. I've changed my mind on like half of the things that I used to talk about, and I've learned so, so, so, so much. And the thing that's been really interesting and weird about that my roots I started out my career producing, albums in the studio and then eventually that turned into a mastering career. But the art of producing is getting a bunch of people together and convincing them you know, the pitch is always something along the lines of, wouldn't it be cool if.dot and you get everybody on board with your creative vision and then you make something awesome. I do that now at the State House with making laws in my free time. And

Emily!:

Dude

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

that's been, it's been amazing. I'm using the exact same skills I have to teach people about this. Because

Emily!:

Dude I love

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

this idea of like, what is a transferable skill and, one of the most challenging pieces of working in and around recording studios is figuring out what your time is worth. what value do you bring? And the thing that has been so exciting and so encouraging and like I feel this in my chest right now as I'm talking to you about it, is the value of the skills that I learned in the studio that I thought were worth like$35 an hour, like in my twenties, my recording engineer, producer,

Emily!:

Head Yeah

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

hang out in my basement with me and my gear situation.

Emily!:

It sounds so dodgy

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

it does.

Emily!:

so funny Come hang out in my basement in my windowless room

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

and I will critique you on your ability to share your soul with others in a micro gr

Emily!:

exactly

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

God.

Emily!:

It's messed up man It's a messed up job

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

it is, it's a messed up and it's a weird job, but it's such a hard job that the skills that you learn turns out are wildly transferable. And so that's an interesting thing I want to talk about today. But here's my question. Here's like, where I want to kick us off. You have one of the brightest cheeriest refreshing dispositions of anybody that I've ever met. And you are not just, a walking ball of sunshine, but you, you also have, I think, an exceptionally healthy outlook about what it means to work in music and what it means to grow a business around your creativity. And I wanna hear about that. Like when, when you think about. A healthier home studio, like a healthier relationship with what you do in the studio Talk to me about that. What comes to mind?

Emily!:

Oh alright Well first thing that comes to mind after you saying all that is thank you Chris That is incredibly kind of if you could see me right now I'm literally like self-soothing hugging myself because I'm so uncomfortable with how kind you are with the words that you're using So thank you so much'cause as you know I hold you in such high regard and obviously We've always had that connection of just like chatting and there's an understanding about I don't know mental health creativity there's so many things that we just go off on tangents on which I love can I also say before we answer that whole question I love the fact that you have had this journey from the six figure home studio PO podcast where you've allowed yourself to look retrospectively at it and say Actually I disagree with what I said Now I've moved on from that I've moved forward I've grown where a lot of people get very set in their ways about what they believe and they literally will die on a hill just because they've always believed it rather than actually going do I still believe that Is that still useful to me And I love that you are willing to question yourself and question your beliefs So for that I just I'm endlessly fascinated by I have endless amount of respect for you for that'cause I think a lot of people just don't do that

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Well, thank

Emily!:

myself

Emily:

included in some ways Yeah no

Chris:

The secret therapy. Ha ha.

Emily:

mate tell me about it I look yeah I've been in therapy on and off since I was like 20 and I started off doing CBT and doing all that but in the last year and two months I've been doing talking therapy it is sort of more of a humanistic approach lady It has Changed my life in the most incredible ways this is gonna sound mad I finally feel like I understand what it means to be a human

Chris:

Oh, Emily, that's beautiful.

Emily!:

this is it I'm like oh is this what I was meant to be doing as a human on this planet Because it's funny you say that you know obviously you perceive me to have this very optimistic outlook and all of that which I do for sure I do try and come at the world with the most positive attitude energy that I can which can be tiring sometimes I will say But it's funny because for the majority of my life by the last let's say year and a half I've really struggled with not allowing myself to feel the full spectrum of human emotion Um or human emotions I should say And instead it's always if I feel anything but positive or happy then I'm doing it wrong If you like I'm failing at life I didn't know this is gonna sound crazy I didn't know you were allowed to feel bad emotions and I didn't realize that if you did it wouldn't be the be all and end all'cause I would suffer with huge bouts of depression like really go to really dark places and it would just come outta nowhere and it would just consume me and it was just horrendous But what I realized was in this last year It was all this kind of repressing it and going no no no just don't pay attention to that because that's the failure part of me And if I don't pay attention to it it'll go away And actually what would happen instead is that monster would just grow and it would gradually engulf me and I couldn't escape Whereas now I'm like I feel like I have a more healthy relationship with many emotions that I've never understood I've never actually understood what my emotions were If I felt anything negative I would if someone said like how are you my reaction if I felt anything but positive would be oh I'm just a bit tired that was my blanket line I'm tired I mean I may as well have been like suffered with narcolepsy the amount that I would say I'm tired I'm just tired I'm just tired But actually it was all this other stuff going on so yeah it's really interesting And now I can't even remember the question that you've asked me'cause already I've lost my train of

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

no. I, I think the path that you've taken us down is the best possible path, that we could go as we talk about what does it mean to max out your health, what does it mean? What is a healthier home studio? what is the healthiest version of you and your studio that it could possibly be? And I think you hit the main, the crux, the core of the issue. for me, as you were speaking, I had the exact same experience when I got into therapy. I started to realize that I had all these feelings that I didn't want to feel, and I had just jammed them down inside of me for years and had gotten really good at that, by the way. And.

Emily!:

me too A pro sub would say

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Yeah. Yeah. I was a pro and for me it was, boy, it wasn't until, my, my ex-wife asked me for a divorce and kicked me out like that. I, that I started to realize like, this stuff is overflowing, into every other area of my life. One of the frustrations that I had on my last podcast on the six Figure M Studio slash eventually six figure creative was that the audience was like 99.9% dudes. I, I was a podcast, bro. Emily, I didn't even know it. on, on the flip side, like when I started to get some perspective and realize oh my gosh, this audience is almost all male. Why is that? What's going on there? That's really strange, and some of it obviously is in the recording industry. It's almost all male, which again, why is that? That's kind of strange. But I think as I'm processing through that and chewing on it, I think an awful lot of the important thing that I want to pass on to people that you know might have listened to my old podcast or new listeners to this podcast is that therapy and feeling your feelings and learning how to fully feel your feelings. These are performance enhancing techniques. Y Yes they help you feel better, but your capacity to do dope shit goes up when you have done the work. Talk to me about that. Tell me like, how does that land.

Emily!:

I that I mean when I tell you that lands in such a way that it like creates an indent in the earth but also it's in a really cushiony kind of way because yes that is exactly it and in a lot of ways I think my therapy for years The only time I allowed myself to feel all my feelings eventually'cause I had to learn how to do it was when I was on stage So if I was playing live if you saw me playing on stage which I you haven't seen me play on stage yet One day you will but if I oh I can't wait You it'll be fun But if if you met me in real life and then you saw me on stage you or if you saw me on stage without meeting me you would definitely have a different per perception about who I was Because when I go on stage every song that I play no matter what it is I really try to tap into the emotion of the song and the lyrics and all of that And often you know the majority of songs are about heartbreak or you know like some form of anger or envy or aggression or or a love song you know who knows but an array of different emotions And I would just Engrossed myself in whatever that emotion was and really embed myself in the song through the lyrics And then I would be thinking about like my own life experiences and how that's the same sort of emotion or how the narrative of that song would fit one of my experiences And I would just allow all of that emotion to come out So I would be screaming on stage like singing along I would be crying I would be I would I'd be a wreck And you know I'd be angry I'd be heartbroken all the things or happy very rare that you get just happy songs But anyway so I would just allow that all to flow and it was the only time I think I could do that every time I'd come off stage I mean I To say that I was wrecked would be an understatement because it just was this outpouring But then I would have to you know after two hours doing a show I switched back to professional mode which is a very filtered version a very masked version of myself So I think what has happened in the last year and a bit is I've now been given the tools to take that I suppose honesty of what I'm feeling into the real world and the way that I always look at it because it's just how my brain works is test out being honest with my emotions it's usually around people or if I you know have to speak to people on a different a difficult subject for instance And rather than putting too much onus on the response from the other person I try to treat it like an experiment and just see what happens I'm allowing myself to be a little bit detached for protection Purposes I suppose But the more that I've done that the more I'm like oh not only has the other person not run away which is my fear I think it's this somewhere around abandonment and not feeling good enough and all that sort of stuff not only does the other person run away actually more of a connection build and a more honest and deep connection with people and even if we may disagree on something which again I am a chronic people pleaser like I know how to please people I do it's how I've survived in life so in my head if I wasn't able to somehow agree with someone and that's not say I would drop my beliefs But it does mean that I would filter them I would say them in such a way that wasn't offensive to the other person or you know there was a lot of negotiation going on in my head with how I would say things Whereas now I'm a lot more Straightforward about you know what I feel what I think and I've ended up having some really interesting conversations with people I've butted heads with some people but weirdly even through butting heads I've ended up stronger with them and I've never experienced that And it just feels really authentic and I think that carries over to music So you know when I'm playing I'm able to yeah I'm able to connect more honestly because I'm being honest with myself I think that's what it comes down to is the relationship with yourself and being able to be honest with your own emotions how you feel what you want and it let that inform you first and then look outside of you I dunno if that is resonating with you at all or if you're just

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

100 and million percent. as you're describing this, like I, I think about an illustration, that's been really helpful for me, your feelings, you can think of you and your feelings as a sink in, the kitchen or the bathroom, and you've got the water that comes into it. You've got the drain, and then the drain goes down and down and down and down, and it empties outta the house, right? The problem with drains is they get clogged sometimes, and when they get clogged, things start to overflow and it gets messy and it gets ugly. And I think. My perception, of this idea why is therapy performance enhancing? why is a practice like deep meditation performance enhancing. When you're really processing your feelings and you're really going into it, it's because you're clearing the clogs out of this pipe system. And when you start to, to let everything drain, to make sure that your emotional system is operating at 100%, then things just work easy. It's a piece of cake. And I think, from the standpoint of where music fits into this, I gotta share one of my favorite stories ever. And There's this legend about this, Victorian era composer that was a recluse, didn't really talk about his compositions, but he'd create these incredible symphonies with no singing. they're instrumental only. And so one day he writes the best symphony of his life. He publishes it the local orchestra is playing it, orchestras all over Europe are playing it. And the critics, the music critics of the day start writing, oh, I believe that this movement implies hope and this movement, depo de implies despair. And they're talking about what does this instrumental music mean? And what happens is these critics start to have a war. They start to battle it out and argue about the music. where article after article comes out. And the critics are battling. And one day, one of the critics that's involved in this battle walks into a coffee shop and he sees the composer and he walks up to him and he says, ah, sir, congratulations on the success, of your symphony. It's a smash hit. However, I don't know if you're aware of all the media that's been going around arguing about the meaning of your music. And so I have to ask you a really hard question. Do you feel in the way that you composed your music, that you were not specific enough and that is the cause of all these arguments about what your music actually means? And the composer shot back at this journalist, at this critic, and he said, no, sir. The problem is not that I was not specific enough. The problem is that your words are not capable of being specific enough. We have a very small vocabulary. Of words that we can use to describe what we're feeling, but music can describe infinitely all of the different feelings that we can have and what it's like when you have two and they're mixing together two feelings at the same time and they're creating a third feeling. Music can do that. Words cannot. And

Emily!:

a hundred

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

man, when you start to do the work and you start to get your emotional system to work properly, to function at 100%, yes. That has an impact on your art.

Emily!:

A hundred percent And like you say you know emotions are not one singular thing Never I don't think I think there's so many layers of things that are going on whether that's in the moment whether that's in the past a combination of many of those things And as you say music is something that can actually convey that where maybe words can't or finding it more difficulty I'm sure that some do But it's harder It's in the same way that sometimes I dunno whether you've had this experience if you go to an art gallery or something and I live in London so it's very easy for me to just jump on a train and go to a random art gallery if I'm like fancy a bit of culture if you like And every time I go to an art gallery I may have been round it you know I don't know 10 times before but every time I go round something different will connect with me in a different way and it will bring out emotions and I don't know what's happening And I don't know why it happens but it does where I'm just overwhelmed and oh my God I just I dunno what's happening And it's the same with music And there is something about the creative arts in that way where you can't quite put your finger on it But as you say the more work that you do the more you work on yourself the more access that you have to those I suppose it's just noticing those emotions and being able to not be scared of them I think that's a big thing Being scared of your own emotions and as you say I like that sink analogy And if if the blockage comes it will overflow in one direction or another and you may not be able to control it And obviously bad things can happen off the back of that and I think if you can channel it into music as well not only is that kind of therapeutic in itself I suppose you can connect with other people that maybe don't know what they're feeling or you know just wanna feel seen in a way even if they don't quite understand that's what's happening If that makes

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Which, let's zoom all the way out here. Isn't that what we're doing as musician? isn't that, everything that, that the music

Emily!:

obsessed Yeah it's like the reason I'm sorry but the reason that all of us got into music for one in one way or another is to connect That is it That is why we are the most socially awkward recuse humans on the planet We are mostly introverted Yeah And all we want is to connect with other people but we can't seem to do it in real life So we have to do it through our music and that is it That is what music is

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

one of the things that's really fun when you start to do the work and when you start to learn how to process your feelings you start to learn how to tell your friends and your family stuff you've never told anybody before. And so

Emily!:

Yes

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

as you were speaking about this and you shared early on in your story about how, you were, it sounds like a little bit emotionally rec, reclusive, maybe a lot emotionally reclusive off

Emily!:

Very yeah

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

but a but an open book on stage that hit me between the eyes. And I have never put this together in my own life, but that was my story too. I used to be a singer songwriter and I would go around and sell CDs back in the early two thousands and play shows. I was full-time for years. And it was amazing. I was like a looper, so I'd bring my looper pedals and it was cool. I had a stereo looper board, so I'd open for a band and I'd be like, looping in stereo, and then the band would come out and play in mono and it'd be like, wow, that first guy sounded wild. But

Emily!:

Of course that was you Of course it was you with the stereo luper

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

it was a lot of technology. it was a really fun thing to do. But, when I look back at that now, and especially as I look back at people I had close relationships with, in, in that period of my life, it is, I can't help but say, oh, Emily just described what I've never been able to put into words, which was I could be emotionally open on stage. If I had the benefit of a guitar or piano to help me express myself. But as soon as I was off stage, I really was fairly shallow. I couldn't go super deep. I was avoidant about all kinds of different topics that I didn't want to talk about, and I would use my charisma to, move relationships and conversations away from the areas that I was uncomfortable, getting deeper with,

Emily!:

that one Yep Deflection It's a great thing And you do learn a lot of wonderful things about other people when you do that which is also a really beneficial thing You wanna talk about transferable skills Let me tell you Being able to talk to people through fear that they're gonna ask you about yourself Very useful

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

completely, and there's something I'm wanna do with you before we end this episode today. it's gonna be a little weird and hippie dippy. This will be a first time that I've done this on a podcast before. But I wanna meditate with you. I wanna do like a guided meditation with you at the end because I can't avoid this piece of our conversation of where it's going. But for me, where my discovering this performance enhancing meditation and therapy and realizing like, oh, I, if I can get my emotional I IQ as high as it can possibly be. Some people call this, emotional intelligence eq, So there's a book on my shelf right behind me. I'm sitting right by my bookshelf and it's called, emotional Intelligence. And the idea in this book is that you have an IQ. Which is your intelligence quotient, and you have an eq, which is your emotional quotient, and you can have the highest IQ in the world, but if your EQ is low, it makes you ineffective. It defeats your IQ because you don't know how to relate to people or yourself for that matter. And so one of the things that's been really helpful for me, was once therapy got the big stuff out, like I, I processed some of the bigger issues in my life. Meditation started to be much easier and I started to be able to just dive deep with it. And it, it's through that practice of meditation that I've experienced the most growth. Ever, it is an absolutely essential part of my life. I spent probably more, I don't even know, but definitely more than an hour this morning, meditating before our call. And I do that every day. Not because it's a discipline, but because I'm a dipshit. If I don't do it, an asshole. I'm mean, I'm prickly. I'm, I'm not fun to be around. But if I've meditated and I've done the work and made sure that my drain has fully drained and that my emotional systems are at full capacity, that's when I have all these extra abilities. And so one of the things, That's been helpful with that is there's this idea in, and I practice a type of, meditation called Yoga Nidra, and it's a buzzy word. it's gotten very popular over the past couple years as a performance enhancing technique for like entrepreneurs and, fancy CEOs for giant companies they're practicing yoga nidra because when they are able to let everything process, when they're able to move forward and feel all of their feelings completely and let the feeling do its thing so that it'll leave you alone, then they have an extra 30% of their brain, to deal with. And so Yoga nidra, is a Tibetan practice. it's originates in the mountains of, of the Himalayas. you start with something called a body scan and you go through your whole body, you start at your toes and you just work up. And what you're looking for is tension. And you just slowly move up your body and relax each of your body parts completely. And you're doing a lot of breath work. We'll talk more about this in the podcast, moving forward and on the episode today. But then eventually you get to the point where you're doing an emotions scan and you're feeling all of your feelings. and yoga Nira, what they teach is that if a feeling comes and you cling to it, you don't wanna let it go. That's bad. It messes you up On the other hand, if you have an emotion that comes and you don't wanna feel it and you push it away, that does the exact same thing. And so what you're trying to do, in this meditation practice is you're trying to let all of your feelings come to you. Show you what they want to show you, help you to feel what they want you to feel. Let them do their job. Think of each of your feelings as a little person, Pixar style here. Let them do what they have shown up to do. Let'em do their job and then they'll leave. And I think maturity.

Emily!:

I

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

I think maturity is really just the ability to sit in a feeling, let it do its thing, and then let it go when it wants to leave.

Emily!:

that's that's a big thing to

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

yeah,

Emily!:

I have learn because I my fear was if I let those emotion like the negative emotions in they would never leave And I'm still learning to I'm still learning that in all honesty So I'm still terrified that one of the negative ones are just gonna grab hold of me and never let me go because I've been in that deep dark hole So I am currently in the process of really trying to embrace that So this is super interesting to me Sorry I didn't mean

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

no, you're totally fine. I'm, I'm so glad you said that because there's a word that, I'm not sure if you're familiar with this, but for anyone listening, this is one of the best gifts that I can give to you. the word is eternal. It is the fear that a feeling will never go away. Oh God, I feel this way and I'm always gonna feel this way for the rest of my life. This is my new normal. That's izing. And when you can just practice the ability to recognize using your own self-awareness, I'm internalizing right now. I'm letting the fear that this feeling will never move on, dictate how I feel and control me and. when I meditate, one of the main things that I'm working on is, okay, I have a feeling some internalizing has crept in and I'm catching some anxiety that this is my new normal and I'm just gonna sit and I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel, and I'm gonna let this, I'm gonna let myself process, I'm gonna let

Emily!:

Yeah

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

learn from whatever feeling I am having. And I'm gonna recognize that this feeling is part of the human experience

Emily!:

Yes I love that I'm gonna take that word and I will cling onto that word not the emotions but the word

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

yeah. Oh, I'm so glad to give that to you. I'll tell you what. I think what we should do is, we should take a little meditation break. what I wanna do is walk you through one of the most common, meditation exercises that I do. And when I think about, you know, what does it mean to use meditation as a performance enhancing tool, I. You can think about it like a toolbox. And within your meditation toolbox, you have a lot of different tools. You have things that you can do that, help you in your meditation practice. One of them is the word internalizing. Just the awareness to recognize, oh, I'm internalizing, it's so helpful, in regards to making that go away, making that stop. but one of the other things that I do as an exercise, I call it the feelings canoe. and if everyone listening wants to do this too, no one's gonna realize you're meditating. You don't have to close your eyes if you don't want to, but I recommend it if you do. but all you need to do is, Unless you're driving

Emily!:

don't do me a driving

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

if you're, yeah, if you're driving, don't close your eyes, but just get yourself in a comfortable seat. and I want you to lean forward lean backward back and forth until you find a spot where your head perfectly balances on your shoulders, where it's no effort to keep your head from falling over, right? So you find the spot,

Emily!:

that's funny Sorry Yeah

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

you find the spot where it's the least effort to sit. all right, so here we go. for those of you not driving, go ahead and close your eyes and we're gonna do a quick breathing exercise and then a quick body scan. And then we're gonna do a quick feelings scan. Alright, so here we go. Cue the, meditation music in the background here. So, all right, let's close our eyes and let's breathe in through our nose and out through our mouth. Let's keep doing that. And as you breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth, try to make a little bit of an H sound as you breathe out. And as you're doing this, you can use any pace that you want. You don't have to breathe fast or slow, but the point is that you are aware of your breath and that you are in control of your breath, and you're listening to this rhythm that it creates in and out. And you are only trying to do one thing. You're trying to focus on your breath. You're not trying to clear your mind, you're not trying to think of nothing else. You're just zooming in on the breath. So let's just do that for a minute or two. And ignore the sound of my stomach growling in the background. And so now I want you to visualize in your mind you're in a canoe, one of these long, skinny boats, and you've got a paddle and you're by yourself on a very smooth, peaceful lake. And you're canoeing around this lake. You're in the back of the canoe paddling and in the middle of the canoe, you look down and you just invite all of your feelings, just the ones that are behind you, in front of you, above you, to just all get into the middle of the canoe. And as you look down at your feelings, you notice that some of them, might look like a blue ball of light, and some of them might look like a jar full of lightning or a rock, but they all have a physical representation. And as you look at them, you let yourself just gander just stand in awe of the beauty of the human experience that these emotions create. And you just take a moment and you continue to breathe and appreciate the beauty that the human experience creates in the form of these feelings in front of you. And so you lean forward and you pick out the emotion that is your anxiety. You figure out which one that is and, you pick it up. And for me it's a gray rock. It's smooth like it's been, rolling around on the beach for hundreds of years. It's a smooth round rock that's shaped like the letter L. That's just what I see. But let your mind come up with an idea of what your anxiety looks like and go ahead and hold it in your hand. So you're sitting in that canoe holding your anxiety and you're looking at it and you're getting to know it. And I want you to ask yourself a question. What does your anxiety want? And as you think about that, I'm gonna tell you what my anxiety wants. It wants a good life for me. It is really interested in me having the best that I can have and avoiding bad stuff. And through that lens, what makes this anxiety so interesting is that it's on my team. It wants good things for me, the problem is how it goes about it. it creates this pressure in my life that, oh, I gotta do this thing. I start to, I get uncomfortable and I start to get clingy with my other feelings. And I start to experience, all kinds of other feelings that the anxiety is invited to the party, if you will. And so what I wanna do is just look at your anxiety and recognize its desire for your good, and thank it for its desire. And then set it back down in the canoe. And just spend a little bit of time breathing and just experiencing that. And let's begin to open our eyes and just let our breath return to normal. And Emily, let's talk about that. What was that like for you? What were you feeling?

Emily!:

I Loved that so much That was I'm a visual person so stick me on that canoe any day of the week what was interesting was okay so my anxiety it was red and it was like it was hard like a stone like you said it was funny you saying about like it was really smooth so was mine but it was like red and it was shaped like a big pill but like a really big pill and yeah it felt nice to pick it up I actually hugged it just to thank it because yeah I for me it similar to you I suppose it protects me and I know that's what it's trying to do and obviously I've worked through that a little bit just understanding that all the emotions have you know they're doing it for a reason and it's like you say I like that you were saying They're on your side'cause they are they're always trying to do something positive They're trying to protect me from something or signal something or you know draw my attention to something so it's gaining that respect for them and not silencing them obviously But I really like the image of actually seeing them as things and it's funny mine weren't so much objects like you were saying maybe one of them's lightning in a jar like mine were more abstract shapes and colors which was interesting Just on the floor They I was like oh look at that All them just there so interesting I've never thought about it like that So yeah that that was my experience Yeah

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

I like what you just said about silencing your emotions. I think what I was taught as a kid, and it's funny'cause this podcast one I'm, one of the things I'm learning about it is that part of this podcast is about addressing toxic masculinity in our industry. And I think a big part of that toxic masculinity is this idea that we were taught as kids, That maturity means the ability to silence your emotions. That is not maturity. That's

Emily!:

No

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Th this is an idea that has been perpetuated by people who have never really let their, never really processed their fear. And that fear can take so many different forms. Fear of rejection and fear of abandonment and fear that you won't be enough. we talk about imposter syndrome in this industry all the time. All of these things come back to issues that are caused by trying to silence your own emotions. And that's part of the music, the part of the music that's part of the beauty of

Emily!:

Part of the abuse

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

Yeah. That's part of the beauty of music is that to be in a situation where you can just let your feelings do their thing and you're just ripping away at a guitar or the drums or the piano and your, what you're experiencing that I think feels so damn good is you're letting your feelings do their thing. Like you're actually letting them do their job and when you're done. I think that's one of the reasons that there's that high that you can get when you've said exactly what you wanted to say without using words, but instead using rhythm and melody and vibe and chord and harmony and all of these things to be able to express very clearly an idea that a thousand words wouldn't be able to wrap. around a good definition of what it is. And so I really like what you said about silencing your emotions. And I feel as I look back at the Six Figure Home Studio podcast and this idea that, hey, you can make a six figure income in your home studio, making music for a living. Yeah. That's a beautiful, amazing vision. it, I still get people that reach out all the time that are like, dude, I'm still doing it. My business is still growing. Thank you so much. It wasn't until I started to learn about the business side of things that started to

Emily!:

Hmm

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

That's great. And that's really exciting. But I think the best thing that you can probably do to be able to do music for a living or anything else for that matter. Oh boy, my stomach is growling so much. the best thing that, okay. Thank God we'll use our AI noise reduction to remove my stomach growls later.

Emily!:

Great

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

But one of the best things that you can do if you want to achieve your potential is master this idea of emotional intelligence. Master the ability to process your feelings. And yes, it requires discipline, but my God, does it feel good? Once you get good at It It really, it solves so many freaking problems to be able to say, oh, I have a feeling I'm processing it. I'm gonna sit down. I'm gonna let myself fully feel I'm gonna do something like the feelings canoe. I've got many more of those, tools that I'll share on this podcast over the coming episodes. But using a tool like that to explore what is it that I'm feeling, what is it that's creating problems? What is it that's got me stuck? It's probably not your inability. To play a guitar part or your, confusion about how to do the best marketing, campaign for your business or you're not sure how to create a system to make this really annoying thing that's repetitive in your business, more streamlined. It's probably not that. the biggest thing, the 80 20 principle here, 80% of your problems are probably related to your emotional intelligence.

Chris:

I think that's the nail on the head.

Emily!:

Yeah I think you're definitely onto something there I think it's also worth exploring the idea that let's go back to this sort of little thing of anxiety that's trying to protect us There are also benefits that will bring as well And I think unfortunately or fortunately I dunno I don't think it's either or'cause I do believe that there are positives and negatives to everything in this world Even if you do the very best say you make the very best choice there will always be a drawback But I think that for some reason creatives especially I do believe that we are predisposed to very low self-esteem very unhealthy mental health and coping mechanisms are Exploring our creativity Like I was joking with my family I think it was about a month ago I went out for dinner with them and you know they know obviously I've been having all this therapy they can see the growth in me and all of that And I said to them I'm starting to think that drumming was literally a coping mechanism for life that just got a bit out of hand And they all sort of laughed And I was like it is funny but I I actually am not really joking Like it's just I think it was a coping mechanism for at that time you know there was a lot of change I was 11 years old I was just moving into secondary school which I guess is like middle school high school for you guys I'm not sure you know I didn't really have any friends I just was struggling with fitting in and bullying and all this sort of rubbish But I found something that no matter what madness was going on internally externally I could always come back to the drums They would always be there for me I could put in the work as it were and see results I could put in the work and see connection with people I could you know put in the work and feel like I belonged in a community within the school and then later on obviously in the wider world and it afforded me that and I don't you know I'm so grateful for it but at the same time I just think wow I wonder what would've happened if I just felt my feelings instead in everyday life And it's easy for to say that and in hindsight and all that sort of stuff of course But it is interesting that I think a lot of creatives Are creative because that is their coping mechanism And that's just my experience of meeting people You know when you start to get close to people and start talking about you know when they got into music or whatever there's often a lot of change going on should we say or something you know out of their control And it just brings a bit of control back And then as we've spoken about by extension you start to be able to express yourself through your music and it becomes A necessity really But again it then brings with it this ability to connect with other people who might be feeling the same might not be able to verbalize it or you know even address it or even just acknowledge it But they'll feel connected to a song and not know why Like I remembered listening to songs when I was like I don't know 15 16 and I would just burst into tears and I didn't know why I would listen to the lyrics I would listen to the song I'd be like there is no reason for me to I don't know what's happening I dunno what's happening I just I dunno what's happening And to this day like there's some songs I cannot listen to because it sends me into a space that I just you know and I probably should actually listen to them and see how I'm feeling about it now But for years I wouldn't like things like Portishead album Dummy for some reason That album when I listen to it sends me into the darkest place instantly like instantly And it's an album that I was listening to when I was probably about six or seven when it came out And I don't know what the connection is if there is one I don't know why it does it but honestly I can't physically listen to it without feeling so depressed So yeah it's just it's super interesting I find it super interesting at least Sorry I've gone on a tangent I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore

Chris:

you, I think you're not on a tangent. I think that this is the very core of what I want this podcast to be about. you used a phrase, just a moment ago that drumming was a coping mechanism that just got a little bit outta hand. And I think that's the story of our industry and of everybody that used to listen to my old podcast and everybody I've ever met in the music industry, my theory is this, that we all had some fucked up shit happen to us as kids and when we were playing music, it helped. And so we played a lot, which accidentally became practice, and practice accidentally became talent, and talent accidentally became identity. And then shit gets weird. So of course we a Of course we decided, yeah, I'll do this full time. This will be awesome. But I'm not saying we should do it less. I'm saying that music becomes better, it becomes more fulfilling, it becomes more satisfying. When we've done the wholeness of the emotional work that we need to do. And for me I'm learning that there's an emotional process that I'm going through as a result of making this podcast. I have to process these pieces of the old me in order for me to move forward. And so one of the ways I'm doing that with this podcast is all the music you're gonna hear in this podcast is crap I've made up. It's me and my guitar. It's me and my piano.

Emily!:

Amen Come on let's not be talking with these kinds of Words are very important Thank you very much It's they're not crap It's not crap Alright

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

the, all of our podcast music are just little ditties

Emily!:

there you go That's fine I can accept that

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

And, and, the theme song of this podcast and the music that you just heard, as we came into this interview and the music that we hear on the way out. I am, I'm using those songs because I feel like they're saying what I'm trying to say with this podcast. they go beyond my ability to communicate with words, and they help set a vibe and they help set a context and they help say something that we just don't have the vocabulary to say. But it's something in this space of family, people listening to this show, people working in and around recording studios. We are having a human experience, an extremely complicated, beautiful, delicate, intricate human experience that defies our ability to communicate with words. But with music, sometimes we can say exactly what we mean, and as we do that, and also at the same time, figure out how to make a living. With with our coping mechanism. I

Emily!:

that's the key No

chris-graham_3_07-05-2024_121021:

So that's complicated.

HypeMiC-10:

So guys that brings us to the end of the episode tune in next week, Tuesday 6:00 AM Eastern standard time for the second half of my conversation with Emily. But I want to take a moment and just say, thank you for listening to this show. To have taken a hiatus and just feel like I've been welcomed back with open arms by you guys. Uh, has been amazing. So stay tuned. I'm all in with this podcast and I can't wait to just, Continue to build community with you guys. So thank you guys so much. And, uh, have a great day.