The Healthier Home Studio Podcast

Why there's no such thing as "Flat Rates" & how to raise your "Effective Hourly Rate" with Gustav Brunn

• Chris Graham • Season 1 • Episode 11

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chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I am here with my friend Gustav, Gustav, why don't you introduce yourself. Tell us how to say your name. My man.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Hey, I would say Gustav bru, but it's fine if you say Gustav Brun,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Gustav is, somebody I have had the pleasure of getting to know, over the past maybe year or so, we've had a couple conversations. You are Swedish, you work in Sweden. You have won and been nominated on tons of Swedish Grammy projects. you, you are a badass. Your recording studio looks like a spaceship. walk us through your story. what is your business? What do you do for a living and how did you get there?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

it's just been a long winding road. I think I started as a guitar player. I saw Wayne's World in 93 or 94 when it came out, and I was maybe six and I was blown away when they go to the gas works and see Addis Cooper, and I was, blown away by. The appearance of Hard Rock. what is this dangerous thing? I need this in my

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

She will be mine. Oh yes, she will be mine

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

swing. And then my dad, got an inheritance from my grandfather we couldn't afford anything'cause we were dirt poor. But he bought me, he did the good thing of, buying me a Squire Strat and a Fender front man Amp.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Was it a white strap like Wayne had?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

it, it actually, it was actually, maybe that's'cause it was the cheapest one. I don't know. Because perhaps, and then I actually got the proper one later when I was endorsed by Fender.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Whoa. That's a, I'm so jealous of you. that's I love Fenders, but I'd love to get an endorsement from Gibson.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

No, I'd prefer a Gibson, but they wouldn't endorse me. So I went with Fender. but he bought me a Fender. I started playing in band. I wanted to play Hard Rock and just, so in maybe third grade, I started a band with some classmates, and half the band wanted to play blues, and we thought they were wimps. We wanted to play Hard Rock. So we kicked them out the band. And then we found some new players and, um, we practiced at this youth center in my town, in my hometown, Lund, in the south of Sweden, which is a university town. Uh, so there was this youth center where all the. Like dangerous older punks and misfits and hard rockers would hang out. And so you know, we would sneak down to the basement when it was our, allotted uh, rehearsal time, two hours per week. And then we would just like throw the keys back inside and we never dared to go inside. But then we finally did, and then we were welcomed by the punks. sort of quickly we, and we never had a singer, because no one could sing like Bruce Dickenson. So we were like an instrumental band, we were like 13, 12, 13 at the time, but then one day, uh, there were like this, stud, punk, you know what I mean? When I said stud punk, a punk that has like a leather vest with a lot of studs on it. and they went to my school and they were like one year older, so they were always practicing after us and. Their other members were late, so they were like hanging out. and I had just written a faster riff and I had just told someone to ask him, can't you just scream on top of this? And they were like, the lyrics were written on the wall by a builder who had fixed the ventilation to, had this message for us that said okay, young folks now take care of your newly renovated rehearsal space. So that was the lyrics that they screamed on top of my riff. And then that became a band. My first band and we recorded a four track demo on a like fostex, porta cassette, porta thing By one of the guys.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

an X 24 change my life.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. And I, it might've been a task, one of these, small, things. 1 guy who worked at the youth center is Guy, a guy named Mattias that I owe him so much. and he was into recording so we recorded the demo, and then we recorded another demo. Then this is oh 1, 0 2, 0 3, like right before home studios were attainable, you know. then in 2005, when I was 16 the youth center actually built a proper studio upstairs, like with a super small, you could barely, you could fit like a drum kit in there, and then a control room with a glass window looked like a real studio, you know? And, uh. Diggy design, Diggy oh two, the standard,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

the Digi two, may it live in infamy. Those shitty converters. This awful priest.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

That's the same time as I started going to music high school. uh, like we would do all the math and English, but we were specialized in music. So, you know, choir practice and, all that. And, yeah, music classes. And then I had, audio engineering class. And then, uh, I started getting interested in it. And then we would have all these shows at school for the ensemble practices. Like they would put us in bands and then, and someone had to do sound for those. And then, there was a teacher always did it, but then somehow I ended up doing it'cause I was interested, which was great of them to let me do it. And at the same time we started putting on like hardcore punk shows at the same youth center. imagine three floors. Basement is practice space, ground floor is a venue, like a 50 people capacity and upstairs is a studio.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I'm filled with jealousy. that was your childhood. My God. That's awesome.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. And I like thinking about it, the, everything was so available to us, and the, the youth center is, subsidized by the municipality, but it's. it's not boring. everyone was just cool and let us do stuff. like they taught us DIY, you know, in this really cool way,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you basically went to the school of Rock for high school. what was the, the turning point where you graduated, you got out in the real world, and you started actually pressing that little red button for money. Walk me through how that happened.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. the thing is, I'm 36 now, I might have realized three years ago that, oh, this is what I do still,'cause there has never been like a plan other than me not want not wanting to have a regular job, so my first paid gig was recording one of the stud punk bands for$1 per hour. And so we, recorded 24 songs and we squeezed in 24 tracks in a day.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

how many cents per song is that? Does that work out to

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

yeah, it's not, a lot. but I could buy like a Coca-Cola and, It was great. I still have a dollar bill up on my wall it's my first, dollar I made, but it's not, that was my first, my first 10 bucks. I still have that cassette tape too, that they, put out. It was fun because back then I was in this shitty studio and I had this sound in my head that, every young. aspiring audio engineer. It's not like you think about a vibe. You think everything should sound like HiFi. toto. Toto is I want this to sound like toto because I can't, because everything sounds like boxy shit. So I tried to make them sound like toto, and they were like, it's supposed to sound like a vacuum cleaner,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

They don't wanna be blessing No rains down in Africa. these stud punks?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

all the songs were about war and, hopelessness and, and at the end of the day, I like, we mixed, I did a mix down. I burned it to a cd, if you remember

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I do. Uh, I used to burn CDs for a living. I feel like.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

and they told me it's fine. We can put on more distortion at home.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Oh, good God.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah, I refuse to give into their vacuum cleaner sound. but we were done, we were happy. We're still friends.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

That's amazing. It's funny, that has me thinking about, we're doing this podcast, the Healthier Home Studio in many ways, it's an evolution of this idea of the six Figure Home Studio, this podcast I used to be on, that, I had a bad breakup with and I moved on and now I'm, I'm processing new things that I've learned. And one of, one of the things that we used to talk about on that show all the time was this idea that, you should never charge hourly in the studio. You should always charge a flat rate. And one of the things that really blew my mind. as I've been continuing to digest my experience from that show, is that there is no such thing as a flat rate if you are charging a flat rate and then you have to invest your time to, get paid for that flat rate, you still made an hourly and, you started at like a dollar an hour. as I think about, what do I want to teach people on this podcast and how do I want to help people grow? One of the most important things, is to know the value of your time. And one of the problems with charging a flat rate unless you meticulously track all of the time related to that flat rate that you charged, you don't actually know what your effective hourly rate actually is. I invented an AI business coach called Studio Time Tracker. And she runs in the background. And if you're an audio engineer, or a mixer mastering engineer, whatever it happens to be, and you're using Pro Tools or logic or you're using your DAW to make a living, studio time tracker, automatically tracks how much time you spend on the session file, the session folder, the project folder, the client folder, and that big giant folder that all of your business projects live in. So you get a running timer with each of those. And then when the session goes to open up, she says, Hey, what are you getting paid for this? And so go in there and you say, I got paid a thousand bucks, for this project. And then she figures out what your hourly is across the board. And one of the things I get really excited about, with that product is when I think about, what it would've been like for me. when I was like making my first dollar an hour, I think I made, what was my first rate? I think it was$10 an hour. I worked at a studio called, three Elliot in Athens, Ohio. And I got hired on, and I think it was, we charged$20 an hour to record there. And I think I, I made 10 if I was the engineer. And when I switched to doing flat rate, it felt really awesome. And you get this big check, at the beginning of a project. But then ultimately, some projects I'd work on, it would feel like I was making$50 an hour. I'd have to, I'd guess something I'm not, was never a real grownup. I didn't track this stuff myself. And it turns out none of us are. But then other projects I'd end up making what felt like$5 an hour. they would just drag on and I would just kinda stick my head in the sand and not really wanna think about, Those projects that I knew I was taking a bath on and, would just try to put my head down and finish the project and move on to the next one. so I want to hear more about, from your standpoint, from your story. You get this project, it's a dollar per hour right now. You are an audio engineer God, in, in, in Sweden and abroad. And you're crushing it and what was it, how many projects got nominated this year for a Swedish Grammy that you worked

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Uh, projects I worked on were nominated in four categories, including Album of the Year, which is the heaviest. So yeah,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Point A is a dollar per hour. How do you get from point A to point B? What happened?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

it took 20 years from$1 to Grammy. and I won a Grammy as well from, album I mastered two years back. but I think in terms of, resilience or like grit, you know, hanging in there, in that old studio I talked about, I think I did like a hundred. Recordings, projects like that were released, like eps and albums and shit. And back then it was band like punk bands. So it was recording drums, recording bass, recording guitars. Recording

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

So on your second project, did you charge two hollers an hour or like.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly, so how we went, how it went from there, like, how I remember it is the,'cause I had to pay 20 bucks per day for the studio. So then okay, so first project, obviously I lost, you know, money, but I don't think I paid, I don't think I paid for that one.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you lost$10 on your first project,$10 in a day of your life.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. and then I remember for a long time, I charged 120 bucks per day. Twin would go to the studio, I'd keep a hundred. But back then also when I was working in, in, in punk and rock and recording. I didn't charge for mixing. So mixing was like free at the end, So I'm charging per day of recording and then I

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

So the band would go home and then you have to mix for free after that.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. Yeah.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

And so if it was a fast mix, made a little more per hour overall. And if it was a slow mix, you made a little less.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. But I didn't like, I like for mixing. I didn't have to pay to sit there. and I would just, I, I was just, fascinated by manipulating sounds and sitting and mixing and learning. EQ, compressor, all that, how it ties together. and maybe this is between 20 oh, oh six and all this is happening between oh six and 12 that I charged this and I made a tons of recording. Then I segued into doing live sound because in live sound I'm paid per day.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

mm.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

it is not the reason why I switched. but, and during this time I also, a little note, I toured with my band in all across Europe and Brazil. I think we did between three and 400 shows. So I was busy.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you were.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

so I was touring and I was back home, recording. I was, it was music seven days a week. and then we, in, I think in 2012, I, there's like a gap in my Excel sheet of recordings, 2012. I like started doing less and started doing live sound more and more. first, like I started doing live sound at the youth center I talked about for all our own small, hardcore punk shows. And then there was this other venue that sort of a student dorm. Place like a left wing student, it's like officially socialist that it's a place where I moved as well, where all my friends moved and we hung out and did all

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Like a commune.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Is that a pun? But it's like a communist

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

no. so

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

a commun commune.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

in, the states, like a commune is people of similar political beliefs all decide to live together and,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah, it's but it's it is tied to the university in England as well. So there's I dunno, 10 of these na it's called nations. not who that are. Like Yeah. And this has a vibe and it's a like a left wing cultural political musical place. And they had a venue, I did some work there, but I always had my eyes on the big venue in town, like the club, a thousand cap, 900 cap, rock club that we all used to go to proper shows at when I, from when I was really

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

and the university was an extension of the state of, in Sweden. it was like the government ran it sort of situation.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah it

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

So what's, what's wild for me as an American, as a, we're, freedom America, all that stuff, and you're telling this story about how government programs changed your life and set you off down the course to become a Grammy winning recording studio rockstar. Like, dude,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

yeah. A lot of people are talking about, the success of Swedish music all from Abba onto Max Martin and all that. And and I think he, he even says it as well, we have all these programs that are like subsidized shit. Like you, if you ask a friend, you find a place, you ask a friend, you wanna start a band, you can apply for money to be able to do your cultural thing in that space, now, we have a right wing government that is fucking all of that up. but it, for many years, since the fifties, sixties, it's been very like social democrat.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

so I, I'm funny. I'm radically independent when it comes to politics, so I wouldn't consider myself, left or right. I, I reject the labels. But, one of the things that I've been working on at the State House, there's these two guys, Senator Ruly and, Senator Smith, and they came out with a bill, to incentivize, people to make records here in Ohio. And, the way it works is it's basically like a discount on your taxes. And so that's one of the bills I've been working on is, and as I've been taking in okay, I've made a couple laws in my free time. I'd like to make some more. quite a few more actually. And one of the things I'd like to do, is to be a part of creating programs, through the state, like what you experienced. because there are so many kids, that have so much raw talent and passion and no outlet. And there's little programs here and there throughout the state of Ohio that I've become aware of. but it's something where as you're describing a government making a significant impact in the arts by investing in its youth and teaching them, and giving them, venues and studios and, places to stay and money for starting to like a band. that's fascinating. And when I think about. the human condition and what the purpose of the human condition is and how we experience it. It's through the processing, I believe of the arts. It's through having experiences with the arts. And when I think about, I think what's the ultimate question that I consider, as somebody who, dabbles in, in state craft here, so to speak, is, if the government's purpose is to build roads and hospitals and police and fire and whatnot, why not music too? that, that to me seems to be one of just the easiest slam dunks of you wanna make society better, help more people make records.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. And culture in general, whether it be art or music or dancing or. dancing got you guys through the depression and dancing to jazz music, it's really important, especially like during hard times.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

didn't realize that our conversation would go in this direction, it's really cool to hear about a government success story

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

and to me it's really just not, it's just the way it is here by you having that reaction makes me think about it as well. Like it is cool, cause it's so just built into our DNA over here.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

let's fast forward to right now. You've got this amazing career in the studio, but you're also touring, with the most famous person, in Sweden, the biggest star. So like you're balancing, multiple revenue sources. you're balancing more than one thing. which incidentally, it's funny'cause I, I used to preach against doing that. I used to preach like, niche down, niche down, niche down. I, I am much more fascinated, by people who have managed to find balance through more than one thing. And whether that means, One of those things they do for free or one of those things they do for less money and one of those things they do for more. Finding that balance as you figure out, do you want to niche down? Can your soul take doing only one thing all day, every day? what?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

I was listening to the six figure home studio a lot, this is maybe in 20 19, 20 during the pandemic. so I, I've heard all of the niching down and I niched down to excellence.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

God. I love you,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Mic drop. but obviously I, I just made that up now while you were talking. but, and I do mixing and mastering, I do the occasional, like I do, I record one album per year.'cause I want to still have my foot, you know, and it's usually one rock album. I wanna do one because I do a lot of mixing and mastering a lot of, urban pop, et cetera. And I love it. I'm not niching down genre wise, but I still want to record a drum kit, because I love, and I want to record. Electric guitars. and, so I do one for over the last four years I've done one record, recording, projects that I've recorded like all the way from recording to mastering,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you doing one record per year because you need to is healthier. Home Studio af like that is

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

that is right at the core of what this podcast is about there has to be this balance. you have to be. Trying to win Grammys, and providing a service. But you also have to balance that with, you're only in the studio because it was a first love in some way, shape, or form. you have to honor that. and you telling me the story about the way that you're doing that is deeply inspiring. And as I'm listening and thinking about people listening to this episode, I'm like, dude, like how do we make it a thing that if you work in or around recording studios, that you make at least one album per year that's got nothing to do with growing your business and everything to do with self-expression. And so healthier Home Studios salute to you, Gustav for leading us and showing us the way on that. That's so cool.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

before the pandemic, like 2019. my, revenue. Is that like my company's income? Is that the right word? Revenue. My revenue, maybe 70, 80% of my company's revenue was from touring and like doing live shows and a couple of years before that I,'cause I've been together with my. Baby mama, my girlfriend for 10 years, 11 years this year. And she has a real job, quote, what citation Mark, what do you call it? She has a real job. And like when we met, I was touring with my band. I was working in clubs on weekends. We had this rule that was, okay, Gustav, I like one Sunday per month, you cannot work. Then we have Cuddle Sunday where we hang out and and thinking about it now, it's crazy. I was working all the time. I don't know how she was still with me, and like I would come home at 2:00 AM she would go up to work at five 30, but hey, here we are, two kids later and still together. It's amazing.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Another healthier home studio. Salute to you, my friend, that, that's miraculous. Wow.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

yeah, she's amazing. and. And then a couple of years into that, I started realizing also by talking to her and maybe I don't want to work weekends and nights for the rest of my life. And if I want this change to happen in five years, I have to start now because I can't change overnight. I can't say no to these gigs and try to build a, studio, work coming in. So in 2016, I actually, then I didn't have a studio. Like I was only doing live sound. I had since three years I hadn't barely done anything mixing recording. So then I was touring with this band, that I'm on tour with now, the artist used to sometimes plays with, with another band called Dam and. two guys from the horn section had a amazing studio in Malmo, which is 20 minutes where, or where we lived at the time, 20 minutes from Lund, where we live now. And they have a like amazing big studio with a Neve desk and all these, U 40 sevens, like a proper big studio. And they had a small room that were like, was like their office that they wanted to rent out. So I rented that space and I had basically, I had no work, but I needed somewhere to be when I wasn't on tour. And I had figured out that, okay, in five years I wanna do this, so I need to rent a space and, get to work. And then I did some, some local bands, some mixing here and there. And then I was like, that was the first time I mixed and didn't record.'cause before I had always only take like mixed my own projects. So I started, doing mixing and I was like, okay, what should I charge? And I was like, I had no idea. I was like, maybe$150 per song. so I did that and then I, some, I did one project, like I did an album with a, and I have no idea how they found out. I have to ask them how, why they chose me.'cause this is a Stockholm based producer. maybe they chose me because I was, you know, the price quality discrepancy was high. You know what I mean? I was cheap for the quality that I provided. and then he was working with these other artists that are, were two quite, famous DJ artists. Du called Rebecca and Fiona. and so I mixed the song for them, and we hadn't discussed the price. So I mixed it and they were happy. And then they asked me what my price was and I was like, maybe I should say 200 instead of one 50. Okay. 200. Yeah, it's 200, 200. And they were like, Ew, cause they thought it sounded like, 800 bucks. And when I told them it was 200, they thought it was,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Whoa,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

we don't want to cheap mix. the mentality of not saying that they're wrong in any way, and then I instantly realized that, I can, I should charge much more,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Whoa. such a great story. Did they tell you that? Did they tell you should.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

no, but I, no, but I

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you could

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

like they said ew, but it's like they were shocked somehow and we didn't work after that,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

So let's put a word to that. So their reaction that, ew, what would you call that? Is it like, anti sticker shock or low price disgust? gimme a label for what You saw, what you heard in their voice when they were turned off after loving your mix. But your price was too low.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

like you invested in something, not only monetarily, but emotionally as well, and then the price matters. You know what I mean? if I would go out and have a, three star Michelin dinner, and then they would charge four bucks and the receipt says kebab, something would be off

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Is I, I, I liked it, but I am uncomfortable.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

anyway, so I realized I could charge more, and then I but I think my, and I'm really like, I started listening to the six gig Home Studio podcast. I wanted to like. I need to think of this as a business. That's when I started okay, this is my job. This is what I want to do. I need to grow up, I need to, think of this as a business. And it was like, yeah, but how I, I don't sit with an Excel sheet and do like budgets and shit. I wish I, I had the patience and brain for it, but I raised my price. 50 bucks worked there, and then thereafter I raised it 50 bucks. And right now I charge between, 500 and a thousand dollars per mix. if it's an in project I want to take on, or if it's a major label. But what, which we, what we also can talk about is I try to keep the price down. I'm trying to charge 1% of the master royalties. in the US is not uncommon, but in Sweden is super uncommon. and I'm the worst. I need to have a business manager because I say oh, this is my price. plus VAT of course, plus 1% mass royalties. And they're like, no, we can't do mass royalties because of our blah, blah, blah deal with Warner. I'm like, okay. And then it ends there. I'm the worst at nego, because everything is so just relation oriented and, I'm also very afraid of conflicts and I just want to be a people teaser.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I'm really glad to hear that you're pushing for the royalty. you're telling this story and I'm like, wait a minute. So you mean you were running your business, then you started listening to our podcast, yada, yada, yada. so much growth and success and a, and Grammys and shit. Cool. I'm honored, that the work on the six Figure M studio was like so helpful, at least in some piece to your journey there. And I think that's awesome, man. as I'm taking that in, it's, I'm shook, it's, I continue to learn about the impact of that podcast all of the time, like every week. it's, it seems like there's still at least a couple people in my life from that podcast telling me stories like that. And it's wild for me to wrap my mind around it because my perspective as I look back at it, there are a number of things where I'm like, man, I really wish we hadn't trumpeted this particular concept so loud or that particular concept so lot. I wish we had focused more on this, as far as like creating bigger change. And one of my regrets with that is, we always preached charge a flat rate. Charge a flat rate, charge a flat rate. But now my perspective is very much I think people should be doing what you're doing. And I think, yeah, you should be charging a flat rate. You should be tracking what your effective hourly is religiously. If you wanna do that, go download studio time tracker, studio time tracker.com. Give her a try, she'll help you with that. She'll do it automatically. But I really think where people should be pushing is they should be leaning into the awkwardness of asking for the smallest royalty that you think you possibly could actually close. but challenging people to understand, look, when you are in an economy where the creator shares in the success of the final product, you will get a different type of work from the creators that are involved and over the long term of what does a world look like, where every mix engineer, is ferociously pushing themself to lean into that awkward conversation of, Hey, my work is worth it. Let's talk about what a royalty would look like, because I don't just wanna work for you. I want to put my blood, sweat and tears, into this. I wanna be a part of what you're doing and I, when I'm considering what projects I wanna work on, I favor projects that will give me a royalty because that sense of ownership and that sense of, like it's compatible with the original dream. You got into this business because you wanted to make dope shit, right? And

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. Yeah.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

to be paid for your time and talent is different. Then it's a slight distinction from the original dream of I wanna make dope shit and to make dope shit. Means that you have ownership in it means that you are respected for what you do, and for what you brought to the table. And you were brought in as a co-conspirator to make this thing that could change the world and that deserves a royalty. And I love that you are navigating that right now. And I'd love to hear like what, where have you had success there? Where has there been a struggle? Where do you see yourself going with this idea of you want to charge a rate and you wanna make a royalty and you want that to be the norm in your projects moving forward?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

I was processing a lot of things that you were saying also about the six-figure Home Studio. And one thing I was thinking about is there were all these group chats and I was in this bootcamp and there were, there seemed to be a lot of people that were just starting out. And I, I wasn't just starting out, I was 10, 15 years down the road already, which means I using your own words, picked nuggets of wisdom. It's like when I read, if I read a book like, the Secret or any book like that, it's okay, 70% of it, I'm, now I know that money is not gonna, magically appear in my hand when I think, literally speaking. But if I can take the 20% that is actually just, good from it, applicable to, to, to myself and, Then, it's great. and one thing that hit me with maybe some people that were on some of those group chats and stuff is man, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna talk shit, but there, there were some people that were like, I just knew, like I saw how they were struggling and it was not about, it's, people work, it's social work. 80% of my business is social work, 20% is doing the audio stuff. But, I like to think myself I'm a social guy, I'm an extrovert. I get energy from talking to people. I'm so also in it for the relationship with people that are like-minded and do music and, and

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

That's beautiful, man.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

if you're not, it's gonna be hard, you know? you can have a super, you can do all the Excel sheets and do the budgets and all that, but if you don't have the people skills and you don't know how to navigate people, it's not gonna work. And I like to think of myself. maybe that's one of my strong sides is is I can talk to anyone, during Covid I would strike up a conversation with a, the guy or girl behind the cashier in the grocery store because I'm just, I would need to engage socially

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

You're getting me really fired up here because I'm, one of the big kind of awkward pieces of this new podcast is Hey, I did this business podcast. It went viral, then I quit. It was real messy when I quit. And then I was like, Hey, I'm gonna go change the worst laws, that I'm aware of, in the country that happened to live in Ohio related to really dark shit. And the way that you do that, the way that you change laws like that, is, it's the exact same thing you're saying right there. It's 80, 90, 90 9% social skills. and when I say skills, I think what a lot of people would hear is, oh, it's, you're talking, when you say social skills, you're talking about manipulation. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Not talking about manipulation at all. there is a distinction between the idea of networking. And lifetime networking. Networking is, oh, you're gonna go in and you're gonna, be real slick and your presentation's gonna be real great and people are gonna hire you because they think you sound awesome. That's networking. But networking really comes down to, Hey, my name's Chris. You should work with me and gimme some money and then get outta my

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

hmm.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

that's not networking, not in the way that I see it. And the way that I think works, the best lifetime networking on the other hand, is what you're describing is, how many people can I build a lifetime friendship with and I'll enrich their life and they'll enrich mine. And when I say enrich, I mean make it deeper and make the human experience better. And if you really enjoy that, going out and building relationships with a lot of people and learning about the human experience from them. Then everything else just this is a natural conclusion to that. Of course, you're gonna work together and make dope shit together, but it, first and foremost, it has to be about the relationship. And I think for a lot of people, when they think about, what does it mean to be a businessman? They think it means to, meet people, use them, and then drop them. to I wanna make sure that I'm crystal clear in my opinion about that. Fuck that shit, that's so stupid. And here's the irony. It's terrible business. You're not gonna build a long-term business off of that. People will see you for who you are.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Exactly. And so my argument for the royalty is I'm not interested in a quick buck. I'm interested in relationships and I wanna grow together with the artist, even if it's a, if it's an indie artist with 5,000 monthly listeners, I'll take it on. I want to a royalty, but it just, it's because I want to grow together and, I can, and I can keep the fee down and we can grow together and we can all, watch the sunset in our cul-de-sac by the beach, from. My stud punk recording to now it's 20 years I've been operating Pro Tools for 20 years. That's a long time.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

it is.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

I'm not in it for, if I wanted money and really cared to buy his money, I would do something else. I wouldn't be, I wanna work in music, I wanna do dope shit. I wanna, I want to work with people. I love that respect me, that like my, what I do, I just love it. and that's my argument is grow together

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

let's talk about this.'cause there's, there's a dichotomy. There's sort of two, topics at play here that I seem, that to me seem kinda yin and yang and, so this first idea of let's grow together, is a really amazing and compelling vision. And then you've got this second issue. let's talk about this a little bit more. When you make this pitch of I'm interested in working with people that I can grow together with. That the reception, how people are gonna feel about, even if they say no, but how they're gonna feel about the possibility of working with you is very different than the, oh, charge$200 a song. Ew. We loved the mix and now we feel bad for loving the mix So like the dichotomy there, the juxtaposition of how a client feels when you give them this low number that makes them wonder about the ingredients in the meal that they just ate, right? Versus, whoa, grow with, what does that look like? So you'd be a member of my team, you'd be giving feedback. you would be freed up. I'm a band, I'm hiring a mix engineer, and the mix engineer asks for 1%. how's that gonna affect how that mix Engineer's gonna work with me? they're gonna be honest as shit.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

mm-Hmm.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

be honest shit at

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Exactly. And also I think, what I wanted to add is for any project or any type of situation really, I, maybe I'm special, but I don't feel like when you're at a certain level, I've done some major label stuff when you don't even, speak to the artist. You're like talking to an a and r at some big label in the

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I don't like doing that.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

no, I like doing it.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Good. You're lucky. I've never, I don't want to, I don't, I'll shut up here really fast, but my experience as a mastering engineer was every single time that happened, it was like a red flag and the project was gonna get weird because the artist wasn't connected enough to the final

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

No, exactly. No. so of course I'm just saying that I like it because I don't want to lose clients. Just kidding. but, yeah, it's a different thing, but, what, what was I saying?

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Sorry, I.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

yeah, no. like some projects, you're really close to the, you're even, talking to the artist and sometimes it's the producer or the label, whatever. When you're on a high level, there are like certain things you don't do, and you don't, you, you mix, like you mix you, then you shut up, that's my brief, I don't just mix. I'm, and I'm, I, S maybe I'm, I just, I want to say stuff. It's, this sounds

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

You want to be a co-creator?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah, and of course I need to, like I feel the room like when there's space for it, but the projects that I love the most is when I am, I can be myself. I can, have the freedom to do what I think is best. especially for mix one. Usually I try to just, do it exactly the way I want it. And sometimes, maybe may, sometimes they say no, this is just too far off from the rough mix. Just listen to the rough mix and just make it a little bit better or make the vocals, luxurious and then it's good, and then, okay, so sure. But I got that outta my system, mix one. I need to get outta my system. And when I. I do that with Mix one and I blow their minds because they didn't even think about, I don't know, a quarter no till, throw in that exact moment where blah, blah, blah. Or I dunno, master Fader rides that are like explosive when the whatever hits, or, I, I mix a lot I, I'm a sensitive guy. I, I, it's not balancing only, it's emotions. Like I wanna be run over by a truck, emotional truck, if that's what the song calls for anyway. when I do mix one my way and they love it, it's amazing because then we did something that they couldn't even dream about, So I, I want that relationship. And when you work for, with someone for the first time, it's always hard because you you don't wanna. Be, I dunno, too weird or whatever, but I usually just try to be myself and even in like email conversations with these, I dunno, ars, I try to just, sometimes I try to test them by being funny or whatever, just to see how they react and then I can and may, maybe this can all be tied to some, I don't know, god damn anxiety or whatever, mental state I'm in or whatever. I need to check the room or I need to just see what the vibe is.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

that push and pull is an absolutely essential part of this creative process of I'm gonna make a joke or I'm going to do something a little surprising, which is the same thing you do as in a band, right? I'm gonna do something that's slightly surprising, a little bit unexpected, not too unexpected, but just enough unexpected to see what kind of chemistry I'm poking them. I'm giving them this kind of creative poke to see what happens and how collaborative they respond to it. You're describing you're using that same skill that you learned in the basement of that school, that youth center, to see, okay, how does the a and r guy respond? do they keep this veil of corporate professionalism?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. And then I just back off, I push more. Do I push more? I don't know. No. Sometimes, maybe, usually not. I'm also super scared of them. They're like vultures.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I hear that man.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

And this comes back to social, like people skills, social skills. That's a huge part of it. to be successful, or otherwise, it's just hard to navigate. And also doing this day in, day out, I always juggle maybe seven to eight projects. And right now I'm on tour, my assistant is back home and I'm, could you please go there Thursday morning to, to expand, 100 hertz and below, on this track so we can send it back to the client. And, but, and that's amazing. one thing is being away from the kids and the family, but will also. Juggling a mixing and mastering studio career with touring.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Been there, done that. Not easy. And thank God for, great headphones. I'm at a spot now where I'm playing in bands. I'm making records with people again, and I'm, you know, working on, figuring out what's the healthiest home studio I could have. I think it probably means mastering three, three albums a month. Probably not a whole lot more than that. And definitely, not going, not this grind of do 15 singles today. I think an important piece of, navigating that is. when you have a life that involves travel and then you have a room that you need to be in for your job back at home, that's really challenging. and so figuring out how do you balance that? For me, it was always this headphone quest. I was always like looking for a pair of headphones that actually I could work with. on the healthier home studio, we will be able to talk about gear a little bit. There won't be a, an alert that goes off, but for me, When I got Odyssey headphones and the electrostatic, like the condenser microphone of headphones, when I got a pair of those, I actually, was a lifesaver for me because when my shit hit the fan, and the podcast has started to fall apart. My marriage has started to fall apart. I was living with my brother at the time. My home studio was no longer in my home. It was in my ex's home. but I

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Hmm.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

a pair of headphones that I trusted and the oey man that I had the, MX four, were the ones they sent me, And I just fell in love with them and it was, it became easy to work remote. So what does that look like for you when you're working remote? Like what Headphones work?

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. Now I have a pair of OIS as well. I'm not affiliated yet though, I think what happened was I moved into the studio with a Neve desk in 2016, and I stayed until the pandemic hit because then I had to commute 20 minutes by train and we, meaning my girlfriend became pregnant, we became pregnant with our first, child, our daughter, like in January or February, 2020. COVID. so I, I sublet my room to another person who lived in mal, and then I just moved out, moved everything home, and then I had my GenX, I had 80 forties and a sub, but the room I was in wasn't good. But then I got the oiss and I mixed on them for a year, basically. Uh,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I I love that story maybe too much. That's awesome.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

but there's a picture. I'll send it to you on text later. When I, I was mixing an album that was nominated for a Grammy, but didn't win when I'm holding my daughter, she's laying in the crib, like I have one hand on her and one hand on the mouse mixing this album that was Grammy nominated. that's fun.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

That's

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Um, it is kind of amazing actually. and the fun thing is, it, I never told anyone it was mixed on headphones And that has happened many times. last year we spent three months in Portugal in, southwest of Europe. so we went there for three months, two and a, yeah, three months. I, I bought this RME interface, one brought my headphones, my UAD Apol, the, not the Apollo, the satellite. And we would hang out, like my girlfriend would surf. I would be with the kids and we'd hang out. Then everyone would go to bed and I would start working like this, but like in my underwear with bad posture on my laptop with this and that, that's the album that was nominated in two categories, uh, for great Al Album of the Year and Hip Hop of the year this year didn't win, sadly, but also mixed on headphones with bad posture in underwear in Portugal. And nobody cared. Nobody care. Why? Why would they care though? but it's fun, But then when I moved into my studio that I'm in now, like I, I have great speakers. I have the general, 83 51 with, their, sub thing that is like tall as a 15-year-old, VW three 70 ones. And I haven't mixed on headphones since because, I can work so fast speaking about like how much time I spend on projects. It's like like my assistant gets the stems, preps it into my Pro tools template, and from there, when I hit space, the first time three hours is mix one, like in general and sometimes mix one. not seldom is mix one approved and sent to mastering. Either I master it or someone else, and otherwise it's two revisions, two, three. Sometimes it's if it's a new client and. We haven't communicated. it could go up to, mix five, six, but it, three hours is the, that I'm 80% done, I three hours is my 80 20, to do all the vocal writing, all the, all the cleaning is done. Like the every producer should get isotope mouth to D click, by the way. And I would save money on my assistant. funny guy. but, so I've, significantly, increased my hourly rate. It's not an hourly rate, but my hourly income

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

you're

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

a flat. My Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because of my monitoring situation.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

amazing. let me put a term to that. one of the things I love that we used to do in the six Figure M studio is we would take a big complicated term and we'd give it a label. And, so what we're talking about right now is you've raised your effective hourly rate, your EHR, your effective hourly rate. And I think as you think about what does it mean to grow a business, in the age of ai, with all of the change that's coming you not only have to know what your EHR is, your effective hourly rate, but you have to know if it's gone up or if it's gone down. You have to track these things and so the studio time tracker lady that I invented, that's her entire purpose yes, she tracks how long you've spent on all of the different pieces of it, but more importantly, she tracks your effective hourly rate. Because if you're only gonna track one thing in your business, I think it should be your effective hourly rate. I think that's it. I think that's your 80 20 is what's your time worth? Figure that out. And then are you growing or are you shrinking? And so I think it's really cool to hear about how headphones. And your monitoring situation have had impacts so you said the way that you've done your monitoring, the technology that you've got in your studio, has allowed you to increase how quickly you're mixing, which has increased your effective hourly rate. that I think is super interesting.'cause there's two pieces here that you've talked about that are fascinating for people that work and recording studios. One is how your monitoring scenario just makes it easier for you to do your job faster, which increases your effective hourly rate, but then also. How a really fantastic pair of headphones allows you to continue to do your job and travel and even live abroad. And that to me, as I think about lifestyle and lifestyle design and what's the life that people want moving forward, the ability to travel, and to live abroad and to continue to make art at the highest levels, Grammy nominated dope shit. the azi are just so interesting. like from my perspective, I tried every pair of headphones I could get my hands on and the azi are constructed just completely differently than 99.9% of headphones out there because they're electrostatic, they're like a condenser microphone and the width and detail, but also, the fact that they aren't fatiguing. for me it saved my life, like when I was in the tail end of the years where I was mastering records for a living. My ex kicked me out. My home studio was no longer in my home. And the thing that was amazing about the Oey, I didn't miss it. I was fine a hundred percent. I never at any point was I like, oh God, if only I had my Bowers and Wilkins, speakers in front of me again, yes, I love them. Yes, they're fantastic. And yes, they lend themself to a certain type of workflow, the healthiest home studio means that you are not tied to your home studio to run your business and to create great art. I think that is what an important distinction that a healthy home studio, is not a bottleneck. That that your workflow does not require a room. And boy, there's a lot of like cool stuff happening with that right now for years the way you would market yourself as an audio engineer is you'd be like, whoa, I've made this significant investment and all of this gear and I own it and that's why you should come work with me. That's just, thank God we are coming to the close of that and

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

But I do think it's a phase that you have to pass. Like yeah. It's a rite of has to pass through it. it. is you want a website to have the gear list doesn't matter what you have, you just, to me it was a phase I needed that as well.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Yeah. I love that. And I, that phase, that, gear ownership,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Hmm.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Your unique selling proposition, the thing that sets your business apart from others. it is such a weird and strange phase because, let's face it, like when you buy a fancy piece of gear, if it looks legit, you feel legit.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. no. And that, that, it's a thing. it, it's a way to compensate, but it's also like still, I have a, like a mix bus chain. I have all this expensive as hardware still. but I could still do Grammy nominated work with plugins on headphones. But I know I will sell it all and work in a, on a mountain in Southeast Asia with headphones and batteries. but I. I am Are you still there? Yeah, You're still there. you're just froze. but I'm still, because to, I'm still where it makes me feel comfortable knowing that electricity passes through transformers and with tubes and, op amps and everything. but I'm also aware of it, as a, I know that I'm in this phase. it makes me feel comfortable. so I'm still a gear slot, also part of it is if you, what makes me work fast as well is I now have the confidence to know that I do good work. I, but still, if I get a project that, doesn't work out between. Me and the artist, you get to one of those, a couple of times a year. It's just a bad, corporation and still, I take it personally, even though I know it's, it may be the client's fault, but it still, I really want it to work. I really, but knowing that 99% of all jobs I do, I get a lot of compliments. And you, it's so great. And I, I turn on the radio while I'm driving my car and they're on national radio and they're playing a song, I mixed, it's still the best feeling and that helps me to mix fast because I don't have to second guess, which I used to do a lot. I'm like, I trust this. I, and the monitoring helps me know when I'm, where I want to be. all the other variables are gone. I can't blame the monitoring, I can't blame because I have a, through$30,000 mix bus chain. to me, I just get that outta the way. There's nothing I can blame. I just do the work. I trust it. I know I'm good 90% of the time.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

so this ties into one of the core concepts of the podcast, and it's this idea that, When it comes to achieving your potential, we have a healing ceiling, there's emotional issues that keep you from reaching your potential. And this is a really interesting conversation because what you're saying is that ego is often one of the things that gets in the way of doing great work. And one of the benefits of success is it helps you not chase ego in the same way. And boy, this was, a really, this has been a really strange experience for me to be really open and honest with you of like when the six figure studio was, in its heyday. And I'd like, I, like I. Get recognized in public, which was weird. I'd just be like getting ice cream with my kids. And someone would be like, oh my God, you're Chris Graham from the six figure. I'd be like, what the hell is happening right now? This is, I wanna, I don't give a shit about that. I wanna master your record. Why are, why am I becoming this business guy? And it, it was a really weird experience because then the podcast popped off that affected my ego in some really weird ways. I liked it too much, frankly. but then now in this position that I'm in, I look at my side Project success. I was showing up at the State House and trying to change laws, and I did. I called legislators into deeper waters and said, Hey, let's work on legacy legislation together. And they said yes, and it worked. And other legislators were like, Hey, I want a piece of that too. And they copied it in other states. So I look at that and I'm like, man, six Figure Home Studio was really cool and I helped a lot of people through that. But like, if I died tomorrow, there wouldn't be a whole lot of people eulogizing me for six figure home studio stuff. It'd be for State

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

I, I, would,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

well,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

no, I'll speak at your, I'll speak at your, funeral.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I thank you. I appreciate that. Make it as heavy as possible. Just the most absurd shit that you can possibly

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. I can get the stud punk

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Yeah. Yeah. Get the stud bunk came in, but the, the thing that, for me that was strange on the other side of that, of I remember when I went to meet with the governor for the first time and he was like, okay, I signed your bill. Here's the pen. Here's one of the pens I used to sign your bill. Congratulations. And being like, oh my God, this is the dopest thing I've ever experienced in my life. And I would not trade that pen for 10 Grammys. Hell no, the pen is way better. but on the other side of that, it also, in some way, shape or form has helped me process, my own ego differently. I'm not seeking approval in the same way that I used to. And that makes decision making a whole lot easier. I'm still a work in progress. I'm still feeling this out. I think for everybody that's trying to make dope shit for a living is that you get to a point where you can no longer if you're lucky that the shit that you're making is so dope. It resonates so much with people that you lose the capacity to understand the dopeness of the shit that you've made. And when that happens, it's, you get this kind of ego confusion thing going on, and you stop kind of strutting your stuff and peacocking in the same way, that maybe you did before.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

it's guru level when you're like, just levitating you mean,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Yeah. you feel all of a sudden like you're floating on air and you're realizing that Hey, my creative instincts were right when I first thought this was a great idea, people thought I was nuts, and then it turned out I wasn't nuts. And then everybody voted yes on, on my idea. That's really a, a wild experience. And when you start to process what life on the other side of that sort of, I mean I, I have mixed emotions as I'm sharing about this. Like I'm being vulnerable on, on the podcast right now I'm not sure how to process that, but I am aware that my ego is different on this side I'm not trying to prove myself. and I'm not trying to compensate and I'm not trying to prove that. Um, so there's this guy, Al Franken who used to be on Saturday Night Live and he became a congressman. but he had this skit on Saturday Night Live where he'd look in a mirror and pep talk himself. he would look in the mirror and he would say. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me, and he would be trying to convince himself of this. And it was funny because all of us saw a piece of ourself, um, in that and some of us, look in the mirror and try to compensate and pep ourselves up and others try to win the approval of others. I certainly was on the second camp there. I didn't do a whole lot of looking in the mirror and pepping myself up. Instead, I'd really, call myself a piece of shit and a little bitch and, I'd cussed myself out just like myself up. that was six figure home studio all the way if I wasn't happy with my performance, I would belittle myself. I would self-flagellate and I cuss myself out, to try to get myself a response, an emotional response outta myself where I would try harder. And I look back at that now and it is a non-negotiable in my life. I don't talk shit about myself to myself anymore. That is out. And that's a great example of another one of these concepts within, if you're asking yourself what is the healthiest home studio could possibly have, which is basically how healthy could you be? What's the ceiling? Could you achieve it? And if you could, how does that impact the rest of the work that you do? One of the things that you probably should stop doing is cussing yourself out.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

And I know this is a thing that's pretty popular. So yeah, let's, let's head for the home stretch, here. so Gustav, we've been talking about, the new podcast, this idea of a healthier home studio. And the things that you had to share about, how government programs, were really the foundation that led to your Grammy winning success. That's amazing, to me. And as you're thinking about, your effective hourly rate and figuring out what is the healthiest home studio I can possibly have, how does what I am actually making per hour play into that? How do I increase it? we've had some amazing conversations about, what it could look like to, build a whole lot of automated systems, in your studio for you. with my dude Kyle here, Kyle's like my right hand man when it comes to building systems, And so I'm just excited about, what comes next for you and having this conversation one of the things we used to talk about in the six figure studio was this idea of an inefficiency tax. It's an idea that Henry Ford, popularized and when you're in a situation where you have a business and there's a degree of repetition in there, but also degree of inefficiency, every time that you do the thing that is slightly inefficient, you pay a tax and either time, money or energy. And when you do that, your potential goes down the ceiling of what you could achieve and what you could create and how much time you have to do other things, which might be investing in other ways, to do things that could grow even more than the thing that you're doing now.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah. Maybe do two, two rock albums, period instead of

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So I just, I'm really excited about continuing that conversation with you and figuring out what are ways that, that we can help you raise, the ceiling of your potential by helping you work a little bit faster. and so obviously like Bounce Butler, is one of these things that, that I've helped a lot of people do that, and as we're considering Yeah. what it could look like to help other people do that in their studio on a more custom level. Yeah. I'm excited to explore that with you in the future.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

my, my dream is I come in, I sit down, there's a cup of coffee in front of me. I have a sip. I hit the space bar and I start mixing. And, at this point I'm, I have an assistant, he preps the sessions for me, so I'm still, he actually makes the coffee for me. Shout out to Frederick Man of the Hour.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

hope he's roasting his own beans. I hope he's using an arrow press and I hope he's grinding by hand with a bird grinder. If not, Frederick, reach out. I'll teach everything I know about coffee.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

exactly. Fred, I'll give you Yeah, you have his email.'cause you have my,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Oh,

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

the struggles I still have is like everything that does, like all the, the books, the boring stuff, the funnel I manage seven, eight projects at the same time. Like, where am I at? What is prior, what do I need to prioritize? What do I do today? like usually I work from nine to three. I leave my kids, I pick up my kids. I work quite short days, and that's a win for me. and I have an assistant to be able to do that. Not to necessarily, raise my income, but to keep the amount of work, but with less hours. but it's, and maybe it's just, my brain, I'm not the type of person that is, I'm not very collected. I'm not, my thoughts are everywhere all the time, except for when I'm in Proles. When I'm in Proles, I'm hyper focusing on, emotion mixing, doing my best work. It's like therapy. I love tools. If I, if I didn't have a family, I'd be 24 hours connected to Pro Tools with Apple Vision Pro,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I love that.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

but it, but yeah, like managing, like how do I don't, I want to keep my brain out of it, I don't want to, oh yeah. Oh, I forgot this email and this client is angry because I'm still, that's my main thing. I always deliver on time. That's also something I learned from the six figure, but, I didn't learn it. But you gave it a name,

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Do.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

what you said you will deliver when you said you will

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

Yeah, do what you said you'd do by when you

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Yeah, exactly. And like with what was nice with the six free home studio was a lot of the things I, I'm I had already applied all the things you No, but 80% of the things you said, but I didn't have a name for it. you approved my, my, philosophies, and of course I learned a lot. Not, but, I learned a lot as well. But it's, maybe that's why I, it was very helpful for me as well, is I didn't have to like, change a lot of things in my, how I approach things. I, it just validated my philosophies sort of.

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

I really appreciate you taking the time off the tour, to hang out with me and have this conversation. This has been really inspiring and it's really helpful for me to hear about your perspective of this old podcast that I used to do and how it impacted you what ideas still resonate, with you. this show is called the Healthy Rome Studio, but it could just as well be called Chris Graham and friends. I'm really only interested in having people on the show that I want to hang out with and to hang out with the Grammy Award-winning audio engineer from Sweden who does dope work and who is just cool as shit, is a blast for me. And so let's do it again. Let's hang out again sometime really soon.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

I wanna be one of those guys that have like part two

chris-graham_3_07-12-2024_114724:

part two, let's do it, man. you have a great rest of your day. yeah, stay tuned.

gustav_1_07-12-2024_174724:

Nice. See you.