Welcome to Spirit Gym. What if the root of every conflict in your life, every fight, every heartbreak, every moment of inner war isn't out there in the world, but inside you, not as a metaphor, as a mechanism? What if conflict is the primary disorganising force in human experience? And what if resolving it follows a discoverable sequence as reliable as physics? Paul's guest today is Barbara Wiz, international peace activist, award-winning author and publisher, psychic channel, composer, performer, and the architect of conflict revolution. Barbara spent 20 years touring in rock and roll before a mysterious voice interrupted her typing one day in 1987 and announced itself as sound. That was the beginning of three decades of channeling Einstein, co-founding the psychic sorority and developing a unified field model of human consciousness so precise it redefines words like compassion, emotion, and intuition at a structural level. Paul and Barbara talk about emotion as the primordial fuel that builds physical reality, about why your intellect was never meant to be the commander-in-chief, and why Barbara at 71 has never been more optimistic about humanity, even as the world appears to be melting. Before we get started, we'd like to say thank you for listening, as this podcast would not be possible without you, our subscribers and followers. We'd also like to thank our sponsors, Organify by Optimizers, Paleo Valley and Wild Pastures. You'll hear their special offers and discounts throughout this episode, and your support of our sponsors means we can keep bringing new episodes to you. Caution, this episode may cause you to forgive people you are really enjoying being angry at. And also to feel weirdly optimistic about a world that, let's be honest, could use it. Listen on.
SPEAKER_02Well, hello everybody. As you heard from Penny, we have Barbara with us today, and I'm excited to share Barbara with you. I can't remember who it was, but somebody that knows me sent me an email and said, Hey, you really have to check this lady's workout. I think she'd be a great guest on your podcast. So sometimes my soul says, do that, and this time it did. So I went and looked at her website, watched some interviews with her, quite enjoyed Barbara's interview with Jimmy Dory. And uh I thought, yes, it would be a great person to have on the podcast. So, Barbara, it's great to have you here. Thank you for joining me.
SPEAKER_05Well, Paul, thanks for following your still sudden voice of your friend. My inner friend. Yes, I'm so looking forward to this conversation too.
SPEAKER_02My inner friend is my permanent guide because I found that my choices are much better when that part of me is guiding than the part I think of as myself, which can be dangerous. That's right. Can be fun at times, but dangerous too. It's a whole ball of wax. We are. Yes, we are, and we'll be getting into that ball of wax very deeply. Um, Barbara, the way I run the podcast is I like to have the audience a chance to get to know the guests so they can kind of get a sense of who they're talking to. So I find your story quite interesting, as much as I could gather of it. Um, you went into it a bit with Jimmy Dory, which I enjoyed. So maybe you can give us an overview of kind of what shaped you into the person you've become and and, you know, maybe what is your world view?
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. And I started out being shaped by music. Oh beautiful. Music was my driving force as a child. I started teaching myself piano when I was four or five and writing music when I was 12. And I went out on the road and rock and roll when I was 17 for 20 years.
And my whole, my whole intention to manifest was to be a rock star. So that's that was my really solid upbringing, which I followed. But alongside, quite accidentally, with my air quotes, I found a woman named Eunice McCoy. I wasn't looking, but she happened to be the mother of one of my high school friends who just came up to me one day in the four-year of high school and said, Hey, you gotta come see what my mom does. And it's like, well, what does your mom do? I mean, that's pretty broad. And uh he said, No, just gotta come and see. And so Eunice was a channel. Now, this was 1969 or 70, so we didn't call them channels at the time, apparently. But she was this beautiful, kind, sort of grandma-like woman, and she had this big picture of Jesus where my angel is, and a candle. She'd light a candle, and she said she was an antenna. And she was picking up my higher power and translating it back through to my limited human mind. And she was um, she's she said she went out into outer space and forgot, didn't remember anything that happened. But there was prediction, there were predictive information in there. But the most hard-hitting part of it for me was that it was all about how to love myself better. I had I was coming out of this very traumatic childhood of a lot of different levels of abuse and uh was quite uh PTSD because of it. And um she just talked to me like you'd imagine Jesus would talk to you. And I learned so much about self-loving. For example, it was the first place I'd ever heard of doing yoga. Was it was suggested to me, and that's become a lifelong practice to me. So that was shaping my uh life sort of as a as a side. Like I went to see her on a regular basis, and then I would write down what she said, and I'd write down what I thought she meant, and then I would wait and watch and see what actually happened and what it really meant. And um, so in 1987, which is when I had the first time I retired from music, wink wink. Uh, I had been on the road for so long, and I was supposed to be this big rock star, and I just was totally unsatisfied and felt like a failure, and I would quit. And that's when I started to one day spontaneously automatic write. Oh, neat. And it was so much decidedly different than the letter I was writing to my friend. Yeah. Just telling her it was so bad that she was so judgmental. And when the voice broke into my typing and started to say these most profound things that I had not even begun to think about telling to my friend, I knew what it was after all this time, but I was still very surprised that it was happening to me. And uh I asked in my typing, who are you? And the answer was sound. That's a great answer. I think so.
SPEAKER_02I thought so at the time. Do you know who Joseph Rael is? Uh no, I don't. Oh my God. Just go on Amazon and search Joseph R-A-E-L. He is a very, he's, I don't know if he's still alive. He'd be in his late 90s, but very profound shaman. But he is an expert at sound healing and built sound chambers all over the world. And he's got a book called Sound, and you should read it.
SPEAKER_05Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_02It'll blow your mind.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because at the root of everything, there's sound, you know.
SPEAKER_02He tells the whole mythology of how creation emerged from sound, and it's stunning.
SPEAKER_05Oh, beautiful, beautiful. Well, when they when they said that to me in this channel, I just thought, okay, because I'd been working in sound since I was a kid with music. And when I would write music, I often described it when I was young because I didn't really kind of, I mean, I knew I was writing music, but where it was coming from was pretty mysterious to me because it was very, very deep uh expression of clearly a lot of the trauma that was uh trapped inside me. But I imagined I was out in outer space and I was listening and I would hear the first four bars of a song and I'd bring it in and sing it over and over and over, and then suddenly I'd hear the next four bars. So it was already written. And I was never the kind of songwriter who sat down and said, you know what, I'm gonna craft a song about the railroad, you know, something like that. It was they were written, I was just the conduit. So when I started to channel, it was the same process, just a different outcome. And I wrote for the first year of my professional life as a psychic. People would come and sit on my left side and I would write. And then finally one day I thought I need to step out and do what Eunice did. And so I took that step and it was amazing. And I became a channel. That's kind of how I became a channel.
SPEAKER_02That's beautiful. Your story of Eunice reminds me of my grandmother. Um my father, it was actually my father's grandmother that I thought was my grandmother due to a very complicated family story. But the point being is it's amazing how somebody can touch your life in such a way that it changes you forever. And my grandmother did that to me like Eunice did it to you. And even though my grandmother's long been gone, she visits me and talks to me, and I love talking to her about what it's like to be in the afterlife. She tells me some really cool stuff.
I bet there's a lot of cool things happening in afterlife.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's a lot different than a lot of people think, but it it's uh it's fun, you know, to to have these relationships. And the the thing for me is that because it's my grandmother and she's like really a deep part of my soul. I know I can trust what she's telling me is true, versus if you're connecting to a being that you might have just met in the astral dimension or whatever, you know, there's it's kind of like meeting somebody on the street that has some very wise words, but you don't really know who they are. I mean, look at all the politicians that have wise words for the first campaign, and then they turn out to be complete idiots, nothing like we've seen going on at all. And then, you know, so when my grandmother talks to me, and I talked to my grandfather too, her husband was an amazing man. And so it for me, it's just been a great thing to have family on the other side that I have this deep connection to, who were deeply spiritual people, who have actually helped me at periods of my life realize I wasn't insane that that uh that it was just that we're surrounded by souls that are still very asleep and and waking up. And so you you I it's helped me have empathy for people instead of wondering what's wrong with everybody.
SPEAKER_05Well, and it's a it's a living relationship. It's not like they're dead. It's a living relationship. And that's beautiful. That's what I like about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I tell my students, I draw a circle on the board, and I put life on one side and death on the other. I say life and death are the names of two halves of a circle. So think about that. Exactly. Still the same circle. And in in physics, they say energy produced cannot be destroyed, only transformed. So if you apply that, you know, the universe is only made of three things energy, information, and frequency. So there's nothing here that can die, it can only be transformed. And I think that's a deeper reality that we all have to eventually wake up to, or you figure it out.
SPEAKER_05Well, and you know, we're all figuring it out at the at the pace of our what's the new word that came into my channeling? Our covenant. Oh, yeah. We come in here with a with an intention and a promise and a covenant, and it plays out in this beautiful balance between fate and free will. And uh gosh, I what's what's next? That's how I feel. Like it's such an incredible thing, life.
SPEAKER_02It is, yeah. It is. It's full of surprises. Every day's a new day. Exactly. It's kind of like, you know, I've thought about this many times. We go through a birth and a death every day.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We're born every morning and we go to sleep at night, and we never know if we're gonna wake up the next day or not. We just assume we will. And and what do most people do? They dream at night, you know. So I think we get to see every 24 hours the life-death model, but we get so acclimatized to the assumption we're gonna keep waking up, but that eventually we're not. And we, you know, a lot of people think, oh, that's the end, depending on what their you know, upbringing is or their programming is. But I think it's just a beautiful thing to remember that everything in creation is nested cycles. Um, I don't know if you've ever studied uh much Hinduism at all, but are you familiar with the actual meaning of om?
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_02Well, it most people spell it om, but it's actually a capital A, capital U, capital M underscore. And when broken down in its actual meaning, ah means I awaken, ooh means I'm dreaming, I'm living my dream, mmm means I'm falling asleep, underscore means end of cycle, and something new is about to be born. So om is the master cycle of creation, and in Hinduism, that's the sound of God singing itself into existence. And I think every day is an Om cycle. Yeah, every year. You know, and it just keeps, you know, if you think of the Grand Canyon, if you say hello, it'll say hello, hello, hello, hello. But then if you say, well, how big is the universe? And you say, I am, it'll say, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, it'll go forever. Because the canyon's big.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, it's uh limitless.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's beautiful. In fact, uh, you'll probably appreciate this. I when I found this quote, I thought it was so amazing, then I saw who it came from, and it really shocked me. The quote is nothing is impossible. The word itself says I'm possible. Aubrey Hepburn. Oh. Isn't that beautiful? That's beautiful. Nothing is impossible. The word itself says I'm possible. And I just thought, wow, that's a deep quote for you know what we would typically think of a Hollywood movie star, but uh, I guess sometimes there's a lot more depth to them than you can pick up on the screen.
SPEAKER_05Let's not be judgy.
SPEAKER_02You know, little do we know so much. Yes, exactly. Well, my next question for you is is a is a deeper one. I know from watching your interview with Jimmy Dory, you're kind of at that time, I don't know how long ago that was, it was 2023 or something. You had said to him you were only kind of beginning your exploration into Jung. And I've been in a deep, deep study of Jung for over 30 years. So I have an entire section of my library devoted to Jung, and I've read countless amounts of Jung. Uh and he's a spirit guide to me, so I can talk to him directly. But um he's he's a man who's very profound, as I'm sure you're aware. And uh in my studies of his work, he teaches as you know, he's really the founder of our modern conception and understanding of archetypes. But he says the Imago Dei archetype, which in translation is image of deity, whatever we think God is, is the archetype from which all archetypes emerge. In other words, it's the archetype that gives birth to the archetypes that the human psyche engages. He says uh that the Imago Dei archetype with regard to the Omago Day archetype, it's impossible to determine whether we create it or it creates you. So I think that right there is a very interesting statement. He didn't elaborate, he left it to you to meditate, meditate on. So he's saying, Is your beliefs about God what create you, or does whatever God is create what you think God is? So there's a kind of a open-ended question that everybody has to answer for themselves. And so in my career as a therapist, holistic health practitioner, and life coach, I found that the most common source of people's ailments and life challenges, and ultimately family, social, national, and world challenges, are ultimately rooted in their beliefs about their God, which is the product of their religious beliefs. Today we're facing challenges from atheist technocrats that believe they're creating their own God with AI, that is their means of salvation. Jung addressed these challenges when he said, if our religion is based on salvation, our chief emotions will be fear and trembling. If our religion is based on wonder, our chief emotion will be gratitude. So I'd love to hear your thoughts in regard to a uh how influential do you think people's programming regarding what God is or isn't, which begins in childhood, 85% of the world population claims religious affiliation. And what are your thoughts on how that's playing out in the world and whatever rises in you hearing what Jung had to say in this regard?
SPEAKER_05Well, I'm going back to the circle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So there's the creator and then the created. Right. And ultimately, you know, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Okay. Ultimately there's the creator. However, it eventually gets monitored within the small physical life that gets created. And I think that within that creator, uh creating in that mysterious way human life, there's a certain level of mysterious programming that comes in. You're going to be this DNA space-time body in this time period with these parents, with this and this and this, and probably a lot of other programmable things that come in with us that are going to inspire us to have a particular view of what the creator is. Right. Now, it yes, then it's shaped by that environment that you described. That was all pre-programmed. So I think it's a little bit of both that uh, and and also that one's, of course, perspective is ever shifting.
SPEAKER_02If if they're not closed-minded.
SPEAKER_05Well, it just even even me, I I grew up essentially in a household that was not very religious, but there was a church and it was Evangelical United Brother and whatever that is. And then because of whatever happened in my age at 13, 14 within the church, I left the church and became an atheist, didn't believe in God, and then I became an agnostic, and then I discovered just the person of Jesus that I didn't revere as a spiritual leader, but more as a trusted friend. Uh, and then when Einstein came into the picture and all of this teaching began when I started doing these group channeling, uh, my whole entire worldview shifted and changed. So I I think it's premature to assume that people are not gonna change, although a lot of people don't. Yeah, but I think there's a lot of shift as well. And in in terms of the other uh issue that you talked about about the relationship to who who is your religious deity or whatever and how it affects the world, uh I think that all of the conflicts that manifest in the world at at whatever level, from war to personal conflict, begin. Within us. And I don't, I don't personally think it's so much about the deity that you relate to as much as it is
what I've learned from my Einstein is in the operating system of how things work, we, according to our model, we work with what we call the three human dimensions. And that's emotion, intuition, and intellect. And in the system that Einstein has proposed, there's a particular way in which they work together in order to achieve what he's calling aligning to compassion.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05And in our model, compassion with the capital C is in fact labeled the fifth fundamental force of the universe, the creative intelligence that uses the other four fundamental forces to impel the creation of the physical world one step at a time. And the thing that does that is our alignment, or our, we don't even have to be aligned, but our relationship between emotion, intuition, and intellect is what gives us our ability to be in this matrix as a human. And Einstein says all of the conflicts that are manifest in the lens of the physical world are beginning between the intuition and the intellect. Because intuition is the voice of God, whatever your God is, the voice of the creator, the bigger picture, impelling you to take the next step for the good of the whole system. Because that's what God is. And when it hits the intellect, in whatever silly joke the creator made, intellect is where the decision-making processes are originated. So if I'm going to turn right, it's not my intuition that makes my hand grab the steering wheel and turn. It's my intellect. So this is where free will is operating. So free will has been giving, been given the power to say no to the voice of God within us. And he says that's where all the conflicts begin.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think there's a lot to that. Um it's a it's a beautiful model. Um what I'd like to do is get you to explain specifically what you mean when you use the word compassion, because having studied these issues a lot, including the word compassion, a lot of people use the word compassion to mean what empathy means. And a lot of people's ideas of empathy are potentially tricky as well. Um how I use compassion is synonymous with to understand. So if I have compassion for someone who's in a life crisis, it means I understand the situation. Um, I can see and perceive the challenge, therefore I can resonate with it. The empathy aspect is to feel, to allow myself to feel what it is. So those things are different. Um you can feel someone who's wounded, but you may not understand what led to the wounding, for example. There would be so to have the compassion, you'd have to have enough enough depth of understanding to be compassionate. So I share that because, you know, I having listened to you talk in interviews, I can see that the word compassion is very important to what you teach. And I think it's a very important word. So I just want to make sure as we move forward in the podcast, everyone knows really what is Barbara saying when she uses that word.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, the thing to remember about the usage of it in this term is that we have a we have a unified field theory. Uh I did a a little book in 2005 just with Einstein, not knowing what he was going to deliver. And this is what this model for this unified field for how matter is manifest one step at a time, begins with compassion. And that's why I say a capital C is that just like all words, there's different meanings. But in our model, it's not what you said. It's not those things. Those are more human, you know, earthbound interactions and with a compass with compassion, maybe as a small C compassion, as that empathy, is that understanding, is that love? We have to take it completely out, and it's revolutionary, which is why we call it conflict revolution, that he takes the word compassion with a capital C and he defines it as it's actually the fifth fundamental force of the universe. It is this creative intelligence that is using the four fundamental forces to impel the creation of the physical world one step at a time. And the way that it's done is that if you think of the root compass, right? There's two different meanings of compass. One is an instrument that draws circles. Right. And the other is an instrument that aligns to true north.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05So what he says is because the source of everything, he says, is in the center of the planet, and it operates like a black hole.
That what compassion does with a capital C is it reaches into the nothing and it pulls out all of the mathematics that are going to be you and your world and your life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And then it, like a compass that draws circles, it creates a circular membrane electromagnetic domain, a particle, if you will, that surrounds your mathematics, that gives you this finite definition of Paul or me as Barbara. And then the second thing that compassion with the capital C does is it takes that compilation. Now we're all in the center of the planet, and it aligns that particle of compilation with true north to the earth. And that gives us all the same map. We're all on the same map. And the third thing it does, which I think is more uh copacetic with the typical idea of what compassion is, is it imbues every piece of this operating system with the knowledge that it's one system, it's one organism. So deep within us, in our in our roots of our creation, we know we are one body. We know we are one. Uh and so that's and we use this very, very specifically for that. It never wavers because in this model, there's reasons, the building blocks of building reality. And when I heard that the first time as I was channeling this book in 2005, and I thought, oh my gosh, that's so brilliant. Because you know, Einstein was all about in his when he was young, the compass was his compass. And so uh yeah, it's it's specific to our model, as are all the definitions, like we have emotion, intuition, and intellect. They have very specific definitions that work for this operating model. It doesn't mean that all the other ones are wrong. It's just a different context. It this is the model in which they work.
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SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, that's exactly why I asked you. And you see, if I hadn't have asked you that, there would have been a truckload of assumptions being made because people would have had their own idea of what you were saying, which would have been distorted to the degree that they weren't in harmony with what you just said. I'm glad that I got to hear that too, um, because I think it's a very interesting and and uh it's a model that I can see applying without a lot of struggle. It's like, okay, you know, you could see how that's a framework for reality that could actually work just as good as I mean, anything you've heard so far. I I've studied I've studied at least 37 theories of everything. And they all have one thing in common. They cannot be objectively proven. Right? So religion and science actually stand on the same footing at the end of the day. Yep, yep, yep. They're they all stand on the edge of a mystery. Exactly.
In fact, I was teaching one of my spirit gym sangas, I call them, where everybody gets together and and we talk about things. And I was asking, you know, what does the word God mean to you? And one of my friends who's been a longtime student and friend of mine, she said, I don't know, but she says, I heard a quote from a friend the other day that I really love. She said, God's the name of the blanket that wraps the mystery. And I thought, that is so beautiful.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's beautiful. That's so poetic.
SPEAKER_02Isn't it? God is the name of the blanket that wraps the mystery.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And that was very clear in the beginning of all of this stuff with Einstein that at the root of everything is a mystery. It's a mystery, period. And so while we can know, and we can even think we know, it's just a mystery. So that really helps me to still be passionate about my worldview, my worldview, and leave that beautiful space of mystery for well for for for you know, think when you think of your life, I'm I'll be 65 in August, so I've been around a while myself.
SPEAKER_02I've been doing this work for 42 years. Um you know, uh I've spent years meditating on questions because as we grow and mature spiritually, our uh questions get bigger. As we grow in knowledge and wisdom in any field, our questions get bigger. And the answers are horizontal. You know, the horizon you can't catch it. So the deeper you go into any mystery, the further the horizon gets from you. This is why I say to people there's no such thing as an end to enlightenment. That's just a joke. Because the deeper you go into God, the further the horizon gets away, and the bigger your view gets. And so you just have bigger questions. And the questions never end. And they just take longer, you that you have to go deeper into yourself to answer those questions. Um, you know, I spent years meditating on one question. What is love? And I took notes and took notes and took notes, and then I, after years, said, okay, to my soul, I need you to help me synthesize all these notes down to workable definitions, which I share in my Spirit Gym book series. But since I'm sharing it with you, I'll tell you what my soul said, which is one of three definitions. Love is the flow of energy and information through empathic and compassionate connection to self or other. There's nothing in the universe but energy and information. It's the flow of energy and information to self or other, through empathetic empathetic and compassionate connection to feel and to understand, or if a broader context would be what you would share. But the point is is not so much that, it's just that I wasn't satisfied with what's written in dictionaries. And I could see that the word love causes as much good as it does problems in the world. And so I said, I've got to take it on to my, I've got to take responsibility for figuring out what this is, or I'll never be able to teach it because I still don't understand it. And one of my favorite definitions of spirituality is a progressively expanding sphere of connection and wholeness. And I think as we grow spiritually, our sphere of connection grows and our sense of wholeness grows. And I think ultimately how that relates to what you've just said is that what's a mystery to you when you're 20 may not be such a mystery when you're 40, but then other mysteries that are even bigger pop up. Then when you're 60, you say, Well, God, I can see where I wasn't so wise when I was 40. I thought I was. And then you just keep realizing that it's endless, so you might as well just enjoy it because it's not gonna end. Surprise every day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Yeah. Um, Barbara, you're a channeler. I'm a remote viewer, and do what people call channeling naturally and easily. Have done for a long time. Um, while most every channel I've ever studied or read holds the view that they're communicating with some conscious entity or something out there, be it a person or a Ra or whatever. Um, based on my life of spiritual experiences, my view is that we're really talking to another aspect of our self with a capital S-E-L-F. Jung sometimes used the word self to be synonymous with God. Um the ego is a necessary illusion that allows love and relationship to exist, but as I see it, there's really only one mind or one unified field of consciousness, which you just mentioned. Can you share your thoughts in this regard? Like when you're channeling Einstein, do you feel like you're channeling the guy that we knew of as Einstein, or are you channeling the Einstein of Barbara? And are you the Barbara of Einstein?
SPEAKER_05I think this idea that we're all one body that compassion imbues us with, is there's different levels of that. So when we are in the lens of the physical world, and you are separate from me in the lens, you're in California and I'm in Lake Superior. And so that's very real in the sense of the model of the physical physicality.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and yet at the root of everything, we're all originating from the center of the planet as one being. So we are all one, and everyone is an aspect of us. So it's where you are, I think, in the system. Are you in the physical world?
Is everyone a reflection of you? Absolutely, including whoever you're channeling. And yet there's a reason why we're separate. There's a reason why there's uh at least in our model, and and I think the Jungian model is that there's uh 12 archetypical aspects of the intellect of self, which to me sort of represent all the different people in our lives. You know, there's the curmudgeon, and then there's the cheerful one, and there's, you know, we have all these reflections of that inner separation that is still one, right? So it's and it's weird because if you're talking, for example, about the 12 archetypes, that's one. That's one psyche with these subdivisions. So is it separate or is it one?
SPEAKER_02Well, they're like facets on a diamond.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But if you stand in the middle of the This facet is over here with this angle and this direction, and so so there's separation in the oneness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. The way I explain how these archetypes emerge to my students, which you might find interesting, is I say, think of God as the unified light. If you put white light through a crystal prism, it becomes a rainbow, but it's still the same light. So you can say there's the archetype of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet. Well, I think all the archetypes are really refractions of the divine, which is unconditional love, which is translucent. So it's a mystery how the archetypes actually get created because God's not shining itself through a prism. But when we're dealing with Or is it? Well, it could be, but it would still be metaphor. It would be very hard to objectify something like that. It would be, it would boil down to anyone's personal mythology against another person's mythology, which isn't wrong or bad. It's just how everything works. That's that's I mean, that's what all the world religions are. All you got to do is an exercise that I've done, take the key books of all the world religions, put them all on a table, and write down everything they said that God is, that God wants, that God expects, what the rules are, what the regulations on dance, food, sex, money, and everything else is, and then ask yourself, is this the same God? Well, it won't be the same God. It'll be like archetypal expressions of whatever you believe the real God is. But to the people that believe it, it's absolutely real. So there's your mythology. And when you really look at what myth is, which I've spent a lot of my life studying for a very good reason, the best definition I've ever heard of myth came from James Cars, who is a very deep and profound man. I think you'd enjoy my podcast with him, it was the last podcast he did before he died. Myth is a story that tells itself. There's a contemplative meditation. And what is the ultimate story that's telling itself? If it's not God, then what is it? And so I think all stories need plot lines, they all need good guys and antagonists, protagonists and antagonists. There has to be a container for story. And if you've got infinite power, infinite intelligence, infinite energy, infinite processing, speed, infinite creativity, you're one hell of a story writer. And here we all are.
SPEAKER_05That that all there is is myth. Yes. So going back to my is it, is it, is it? Because in in my myth, in this Einsteinian structure, uh from the center of the planet with our compilation of consciousness, comes a gravitational wave that carries the particles to the surface of the planet where it breaks through into the lens. And the wave itself is it's creating the physical body, which is projecting and perceiving and having this matrix experience. But the wave itself continues on to the edge of the Earth's electromagnetic field and gets swept up back around, down into the North Pole, back into that compilation to begin again at the speed of light squared. So here you have these spinning strings.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And the lens is the mechanism within, we call it the human intention, the intention you bring human, slows that wave down to the speed of light and separates it out into all those things, just like a prism that's uh that's in our model. And there you have the separation of everything that you're then projecting and perceiving. So while I I'll absolutely agree that everything is mythology, this is just a theory. Yours is just a theory. Any anybody's belief of a God is just a theory that resonates with them. And that's all those many facets, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, Jung said nothing is real that is not perceived in the psyche first. So there is nothing more real than a psychic perception. And when you look at everything from people's stories of alien encounters, for which I've had many of my own, um, to I mean everything from religion to scripture to uh dreams. Um, you know, we we can say people are crazy because they say things that are out of touch with reality, but we forget that within them that is their reality.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I'm all I'm saying is that my mythology is as real to me as real possibly gets. Yours is as real to you as real gets, and everybody's mythology is real. My question is: for everybody that I work with, there's two things we have to deal with. One is fate, and one is destiny. Destiny requires the use of free will, choice, and a conscious participation as a co-creator with God. Fate means I'm unconscious of what's acting through me and I'm living it out. And there's often a victim archetype or a saboteur archetype or some kind of unresolved trauma or expectation of some other to come save me or that they're responsible for why my life is the way it is. That's the faded path. But when I'm working with people, I'm saying, let's work on being a co-creator with God. Because as soon as you realize that you have free will and you have the capacity to love and you have the capacity to create, then why not create the life you want to live and pour your heart into that? And so far, every time I've seen anybody commit themselves to the experiment of seeing what happens when they consciously get involved, things improve.
SPEAKER_05Right. It's that tipping point for people to understand how much that you participate in the creation process that you don't even know. Right. And you know, in terms of fate and destiny, in in my mythology, we come here with a fate. Yeah. And again, we called it the covenant. We I make a covenant, say, with my father, and I say, the soul of my father, and I say, help me be whatever, the best channel I can.
SPEAKER_02And he's split me open.
Yeah. He's and and so he comes in and he's got the free will to, and I have the free will to overcome the conditions of our relationship. Uh and in essence, his abuse was the very thing that propelled me into a world that I wouldn't have gone into in the first place of dissociation and in that world of picking up the unseen. Yeah. Even though I didn't know what was happening in the beginning, I was dissociating unconsciously to protect myself. Yeah. And so uh, but I've been given the free will to, as I grow through life, to put that into a perspective of compassion or not, be a victim. Right. And and yet I can't escape. I can't just think away what happened to me in my youth, but I can prevail and overcome and integrate and regenerate it and then detach from it, which is really what happened with my father as I did my work around it. I found a way to detach from him with and still love him very deeply.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And when he died, and then my mother had passed, I watched them in afterlife come back together, figure it out, start to transform their own lives, which transformed my life as well. To finally at this point have a mother and a father who know to take responsibility, who uh honor me in ways that they didn't. It's just as powerful as if they had done it when they were still alive. Maybe more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's um well, it's a gift to you because you have done the work to be able to receive that gift. If you hadn't, you would still be carrying the cross of that wound. Yes. And I think that right there is something very powerful for all of us to be aware of that when the pain teacher shows up in your life, my experience is the pain teacher will stay with you until you've actually learned the lesson. And one of the lessons is to forgive. And and and I I I think a lot of people get trapped in the idea that to forgive condones a behavior that isn't good to repeat. But I think I think if we realize that, you know, I I I say only wounded parents wound their children. And if we realize that the people that hurt us are often unable to process their own wounds and are often unconscious of what they're acting out it takes time. And at some point we have to make a choice that we can't change the person that hurt us, but we can change ourselves, we can change our context, our viewpoint. We can actually move beyond it and turn that wound into something that gives us freedom and gives all the people we touch the benefits of our own healing. And I think it's such an important um concept for the whole world right now, due to all the circumstances in the world. I mean, there's so much unresolved trauma. I don't know if you've read Basil Vanderklock's great big book. I forgot the title of it, but it's, you know, Basil van der Klock spent his whole career as a doctor dealing with trauma, and his book's just a powerful, powerful book loaded with some shocking, shocking statistics, like how many children are abused, how many are sexually abused. It's like 51% of all children have some kind of serious trauma. Um and I I think that from Steiner's perspective, illnesses and traumas are really I'm paraphrasing here because it's a lot of deep stuff I'd have to lay on the table to really put it into context, but it's really what the soul needs to open itself up to awaken to its true authentic nature. And um I I I've spent a lot of time meditating and even talking directly to God to, you know, why why have you chosen such a painful path for yourself? Why the, why the why all the trauma, why all the pain? With your creative imagination, couldn't you have done it a better way? And God says, it's a very good question. Why don't you meditate on it and see if you can come up with a better way? I'll be happy to hear it.
SPEAKER_05Oh, so cheeky God.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I always tell people, God's got the wickedest sense of humor. I'm like, you have no idea of God's sense of humor. Yeah. You know, and I've I've also watched people die, and God's actually shown me. He says, Here, I want to show you something. And I remember one time I was watching a CEO of a corporation who had lots of money, but alcohol problems and very traumatic family challenges and broken family, and didn't believe in God. So God let me see what happened when he died and woke up to what was really going on, and the experience of him realizing that all of his guilt and all of his shame and all of his disappointment in himself was all stunningly beautiful, and that that what he had done in his life could have been done better, but that's what evolution's for, that's what we grow for. But he he was able to see how he sort of abandoned his children, yet that forced them into their own individuation and into becoming an adult and not being stuck in codependence on daddy all the time. And you know, basically, when he realized the perfection behind the imperfection, he just cried with every atom in his body out of the beauty and the joy and the magic and the mystery of it. It just literally blew his mind. And for me to watch that, and I was able to see many such cases like that, it was it's just like a there's a depth of healing and self-realization when you get to bear witness to something like that. And it really shows you how hard it is for the human being to contextualize or even grab a hold of the concept of God because it is so vast and beyond our programming that unless you have done the work and been gifted the grace of deep mystical experiences and union experiences, like fortunately that I have, um, it's really hard to understand what God is or why things are the way they are until you get kind of like to where I can have a conversation with somebody like you, Barbara, that has enough depth and understanding and experience to know that I'm not a crazy man and I know you're not a crazy woman, that you know, because we've walked far enough into the into ourselves to meet the mystery and and and honor and worship it, right? And really realize that there is a level of perfection behind what looks imperfect to us, that when you come into contact with it, I know for me it it lets me know no matter how fucked up the world looks, that something's being birthed. And I just have to trust that what's coming down the birth canal is exactly what needs to be born, and this is just what it looks like.
SPEAKER_05And so what you're talking about too is when people do the work, do that hard work of turning inward and owning everything and being asking questions that don't have answers and being in the mystery, which is inevitable because that's the root of everything, is this mystery. I think that point is the operative point because when you're go back to the CEO. So he's he's lived this life. Maybe in in life he wasn't particularly joyful or happy, or I don't know. You know, he struggled and he made mistakes and he's getting to the end of his life. And he sort of has this come to Jesus realization that, oh my gosh, life is really a mystery. Now that I'm gonna lose it, now that I'm at the end of it, I can and I have to let go of it. Wow, when I let go of it, I can see it as this incredible mystery. And even though I thought I was screwing up my kids, wow, look from this new point of view, I can see that I gave them those gifts. It was part of my covenant with them. It wasn't my covenant to come in and coddle them and give them everything and be this, you know, father knows best father. It was to provide them with that. And they have been given the free will to also come to this realization so they too could rise above and have a beautiful moment with their father before he died, perhaps. And for me, that's kind of what happened that I'd spent a very long time in my life creating this forgiveness of him, which wasn't about letting him get away with stuff. It was about me not being attached to him as my perpetrator. Him. And so as I detached from that and took full responsibility for me and forgave him, then I could put him out on a far circle where I didn't, I didn't have him in my life, but I didn't keep him out because he was my, you know, he hurt me. I my whole thing was until you're able to take full responsibility for your life, we're gonna have this relationship where you're on the far circle and I can love you from a far and wave and say, I'll see an afterlife and we'll figure it out. And therefore, I don't have that attachment to that resentment in life, which change changes me. And it's unfortunate, like your friend, that we have to get to the end of life before we we let go of life completely. Because that's how we access, I think, that deeper vat of our power.
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SPEAKER_02Yes, you've reminded me of a it it's a true story. You may have heard it before, but it it's a perfect analogy for everything we're talking about, about the about what it takes to let go. Let go of judgments, let go of self-guilt, shame, um, let go of anger at God or anger at oneself. And it's the story of how, in a certain region of Africa where there's very little water, how they find water. And there's a certain type of monkeys out there that always know where the water is. So what the Africans do is they find a tree that has a hollow trunk, and they either make a hole the right size or they find a tree with the hole the right size, and they know what nuts these monkeys love. So they put a bunch of nuts inside the tree, then they hang around and wait for the monkeys to come get the nuts. But what the monkeys will do is they'll reach inside, and when they make a fist to hold the nut, they can't get their hand out through the hole. So the Africans just walk up to them, and then they make the monkey let go of the nut. And then they just follow the monkeys to the water, and they always lead them to the water. But the point of the story is that that monkey will not let go of that nut. Even when a threatening creature is approaching it, it won't let go of the nut. I don't know if they tickle it or how they get it to let go, but they do. And then they just let it go and follow it, and it takes them to where the water is. And I think that's such a beautiful metaphor because we tend to hold on to the nut of our pain and the things that scare us and that we don't like. But it's only when we let go of it that we can actually get to the water, which would be a symbol for love or for higher consciousness or for God. And isn't it funny that every time one of us does that, there's always somebody following us? You know, Rumi said the greatest teacher is the silent teacher and the greatest lover is the silent lover, because whatever we do within ourselves to raise our vibration shifts the entire field. And everywhere we go, we're sharing that resonance with everybody around us. I tell my students, if you want to heal the world, Lao Tzu says, if you want to heal the world, heal yourself. But if you're in a higher vibrational state, you walk into the barber shop or to the shopping mall or to your friend's house, and you know you're helping everybody without saying a word. And I I think, you know, I think we all just need to get a little bit more conscious of when it's time to let go of the nut and find the water.
SPEAKER_05But that is painful to hold on. Yeah, but that is, you know, at the root of what we've come here to do. It's and it's so it's so simple in in a lot of ways. It's the hardest thing to do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05When when our intellect and the thoughts are tied up with the emotion and the and it's fueling thoughts that are just describing and defining us as victims. And it's that's what creates the reality that we are experiencing that victimization that we pull to us those perpetrators and those people to confirm our conviction that we're persecuted or whatever, however it happens. And it's why I love this model of Einstein's because it takes all of these incredibly broad concepts and it parboils it down to a very simple to understand, difficult to do, but the model in which to align to compassion, to be able to detach, to be able to forgive is so simple. And yet
it is the hardest thing for a human to do is to stop and take care of oneself, and partly because I don't think we were ever taught. I was never taught.
SPEAKER_02No, that's a big problem in our culture. You know, and in having studied tribal societies from around the world, what they had that was really helpful was the elders, the wisest people in the tribe, were the ones responsible for raising the children. In all hunter-gatherer societies, the parents, which were the younger men and women, would go out and hunt and gather. Um, having researched this, on average, they could meet their needs in approximately three to four hours a day. And while they were out hunting and gathering, grandma and grandpa, metaphorically, were teaching them myths and arts and crafts and dance. And uh, you know, back then they were doing oral transmission of their mythologies and their beliefs. But the children were being raised by the wisest, most mature, most experienced people in the tribe. And so they had kind of like the connection that we talked about to grandma and grandpa, but in a tribe, a lot of these tribes were not monogamous. They were, you know, your brother and sister could be from two different parents. So the tribe was very bonded as a tribe. And I think as we transitioned into whatever it might be, the industrial age, the Renaissance, and all the things that shifted and led to us eliminating so many tribal societies, we lost a very, very powerful structure of education, growth, and development. And it always amazes me to see how many academics say these people were primitive and they were stupid. And I'm like, are you kidding me? We are their children. If they were that primitive and stupid, then how did we get here? You know? And when you study like a book that's I've mentioned it several times on the podcast because it's so mind-blowing, Voices of the First Day by Robert Lawler, which is all about the Aboriginal culture, which is statistically or scientifically said to be the oldest culture of humanity. When you see how they raise their children and their practices around sex and sexuality and just their whole tribal system, it's so incredibly beautiful and so evolved. I read that book and I'm just like, my God, we have gone backwards dangerously far. And we wiped out the groups of people that could save us with their wisdom right now. And I have a little, I'll show it to you. I have a little um, and it's a hand carved, I think it's a gourd from a from a native tribe. And in my prayers every morning, I blow smoke into this and I say thank you to all the wise tribal elders. That have ever lived for coming to support us right now, to help us awaken to who we really are and to bring harmony to each other and between humanity and mother nature. And I have a chief's headdress right there, and I say thank you, great spirit, for helping me be the just best chief I can be for myself, for my family and the people of the world. So these are my daily reminders that I have to open myself to the wisdom of the elders, or it's just stuff written in books. And I think, you know, that's that's just my mythology, but it's what keeps me going.
SPEAKER_05Well, and even though there's the mythology, the elders, I live in uh I live on an island in Lake Superior, and it's in the middle of it is the Anishinaabe Chippewa, the Anishinabe center of their universe. And they have a uh prophecy of the eighth fire, and it's when the eighth fire is lit, you're gonna you're gonna choose. You're gonna choose the scorched earth path, or you're gonna choose the green burden path. And this culture exists full force up here. We've got two reservations on either side of us, and one at the end of the island. And the community itself in this area of Lake Superior is a native, non-native alliance, so that we have taken in that prophecy that we are supporting that prophecy through the leadership of our native uh community, which is a different government. You know, their government is based on saving the water and saving the earth. Uh you mean insane? Yeah. And and yeah, when they fish uh the sturgeon season, it gets distributed to the tribe, the elk, everything gets distributed, the rice, it's all done as a community to take care of each other. So it's alive and well. And going back to what you had said about this day and age, you know, I mean, could there be any more horrific ideas of what could possibly happen in the future?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And people are constantly saying to me, too, oh my God, you know, how can you have any optimism? This is just everything's so crazy now because in creating the condition that you talked about, that when we do the work, which is our work to do, because nobody's gonna feel my feelings and nobody's gonna think my thoughts, it's my job. And when I do that and I create that alignment to compassion, and I become that human that's also like Jesus was, right? Emanating the alignment to compassion, changing the world from within out, not looking at the world to be my, you have to be a certain way for me to be safe. No, I'm safe because I trust myself to take care of myself, yes, to nurture myself. And when I do that, then I'm here to step out into that crazy world and and shift it. Yeah. That's that's what I came here for. So I think it's exciting. It's a very exciting time. And more and more people like you and I, I think are absolutely emerging and like like we all have a little ripple that's a different, you know, my ripple and my social media is this big and your ripple is maybe this big, but we all are part of the whole of the ocean. Yeah. And
every one of us that do this, we create the synergy of compassion, which means if I'm aligned to compassion and I meet up with you, I've got way more compassion than just one and two. Can the, you know, the synergy.
SPEAKER_02One plus one equals three. And there's um like even just sitting here talking to you, because I can feel your soul and your spirit is very powerful and very clean and very real. Um just to be able to talk to you and anyone like you, which is a lot of the people that I get on my podcast, I could give you lots of names. But every time I feel more possibility, more hope. Like I until somebody emailed me and said, You gotta check this woman out, I didn't know you existed out there. But now that I do, and now that I can talk to you and I know you're out there and I know that we're on the same team, so to speak, it's like someone has another oar in the boat, and we all have to work less, and we can get further together, and we have s another voice to sing together. And we feel that that circle of wholeness, empathy, and compassion is real, and the bigger it gets, the safer we feel. And I think it I just think it's great to find each other. Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_05You know, it's a miracle, it's a beautiful unfolding miracle. And I just want to say, in in July of 2023, I made the decision that I was gonna kind of leave uh different revenue streams throughout my whole, you know, when you're a musician, you don't ever quit your day job.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and this work of mine, it was never meant to be a business. It was meant to be a library of the documentation of my spiritual mission. And yeah, money gets exchanged when you buy my book or you have a reading, but in my soul, that's not what it's that's not what it's about. And so I I proceed forward in this kind of understanding that we are coming together like this in this because it's all magical. And when I left in my world in 2023, I found this. Well, he actually found me. He was a young man uh who was a podcast booker. Oh, and just at the right time, he kind of dropped into my, he was doing his due diligence of sales calls, and we struck up this agreement, and I tested him for a year for a for a month, and he was so phenomenal that for three years now, he's been connecting me up with people meeting people just like yourself, who is there's so many of us out there that we don't know about. Yeah, and people are often there. I was on the metaphysical hippie chick 2.0 podcast yesterday.
SPEAKER_02I never knew there was such a podcast. I love it.
SPEAKER_05And they said to me, Well, we're so honored, you know, we're just this tiny little podcast. And it's like, that's what I want. I just want to talk to people. I mean, would I go on Joe Rogan? Of course, but that's not that's not my gonna be my sign of success. I learned that in my failed rock and roll dream. Yeah, you know, I had to be having lunch with Bruce Springsteen and playing, you know, whatever to be successful. No. To me, it's each of us connecting when spirit brings us, which to me, more and more, and I know you're experiencing this too. You just said it with me, but the more we let go and just get into the flow of this is our intention, the more we're brought to the right people, the more synchronicity happens and the more connections we make. And you and I having this conversation aren't gonna end the war in Iran.
SPEAKER_02But some people need that war.
SPEAKER_05If the yeah, well, and it is serving its purpose in the sense that there's this huge amount of humans who are evolving and opening like to the reality like this. And then to have something like that or any number of the, you know, insane things that are going on in the world that could scare the crap out of you, yeah. That triggers compassion within us. It triggers a deep emotion. It does. And by by us then bringing that up, because we're all have these abscess of emotions trapped in our bodies that we never let ourselves feel when we were younger. We when even now, you know, when something happens and it's against what we think, but we perform, you know, appropriately. We don't lash out or you know, emote. We we trap it. And I don't think any of us have ever been taught how to feel everything, how to really process and feel it without letting it get trapped in the system. And um as we do that, and more people are like, What? You mean I can just rest and I can feel and breathe, and I don't have to perform. I can just take care of my own self and and then the the other part of that, learning how to how to feel everything and keep it moving on that spinning string, is how are we going to train our intellects and all of that conscious thought processes, all of the imagination? It's it's so complicated in there, like you said, it's part of what defines reality. But how
are we going to get into that kind of superconscious thinking and fuel that as opposed to the thoughts of fear? Because I think there's two different things. There's the pure emotion of fear, yeah, and then there's the thinking of the construct of what that fear is gonna create, or you know, I'm afraid of World War III, or I'm afraid of this or that. And when you separate those two things and treat them differently, not as one entity, because otherwise you can't fear because then you're gonna That's where we need people like you're doing right now.
SPEAKER_02I mean, my podcast is listened to in 172 countries, so you're talking to a lot of people right now. Um, one, you you have to have a pretty deep trust in yourself, your soul, in God to allow yourself to feel the depth and the intensity of the pain and the emotion. I've had multiple experiences of my consciousness merging with the collective unconscious of the planet, and it is a very, very intense experience. It's wild as hell to simultaneously feel people orgasming in sexual bliss and being sexually abused, tortured, and killed and war at the same time. And I mean, people listening to the podcast know I'm a guy that's lived a pretty wild life. I was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne Division, kickboxer, motocross racer. I've lived a wild life. I've done over a thousand plant medicine ceremonies in my life. And I've gone deep into all of it. And when you're actually the first time this happened to me, I was just doing a Native American Indian style meditation where you just lean up against a tree. I was in Toronto getting ready to give a series of lectures, and I just was kind of grounding and centering myself. And so I thought, I just felt drawn to this beautiful big tree in a park right next to the convention center. And all of a sudden, I'm just one with the collective, and I'm, you know, I'm very clairvoyant, so I'm seeing all this at once, and it was mind-bogglingly intense. I'm like, oh my God, I came out of that and I said to my soul, you're gonna have to help me center myself after that. I got to give a lecture in 10 minutes. I'm like, I don't even know how I'm gonna do it. But it was a very, very intense experience. So my point is, it took me a lifetime of spiritual development to that point to be able to handle being that present with, let's call it God or humanity, or Mother Nature, or Mother Gaia, and not let it completely annihilate me and then be able to put my stage face back on and go give a lecture and be coherent. But I couldn't have done that if I hadn't done all the healing work and all the spiritual work I'd done. And in fact, I can tell you right now, because I've worked with a lot of people that have had psychic crack ups from psychedelics and trauma, that many of them end up in the collective unconscious and it fractures their psyche. They just are wounded badly by it. And that's one of the things that too much LSD or too much mushrooms or any of the psychedelics can do. You can enter into the collective unconscious, and a lot of people can never recover from it without skilled help, which is something I've spent a lot of years helping people with. But but I'm saying what you're saying is to feel that and to get the intellect out of it. For me, it's like, okay, this is what it's like to be in God. This is what it's like to experience the truth of what God experiences every moment. And we're only talking about a tiny little micro dot of a slice of life in the universe. And God is in as and with it all. Like I can't even imagine scientists say, based on current analysis, there's probably at least three billion planets like ours in the Milky Way alone, based on stars with planetary systems like ours that match the model. They said there's probably at least three billion stars with planets like our own, where life could exist just like this. We just don't have the technology to find them. So imagine how many there is in the universe and how many beings there are, and then imagine all the beings and all the different dimensions of reality for which there's many, and then say, what would it like to be the consciousness that's in all of these beings, having all these experiences at once? And then you get an idea what the word God starts to mean, and it's it's wild.
SPEAKER_01Hi
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SPEAKER_05Two things. And one is that in keeping with this, in our model, uh it's uh often described as, you know, there's the power plant. And you can't plug your phone into the power plant.
SPEAKER_04And so it's transformed down into a down transformer.
SPEAKER_05Into a dimensional level that we can handle.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_05However, it's still there. So what you're talking about, your ability after all this these years of dealing with fear and uh and the both spectrums of emotion, that you were able to consciously observe what is just really in you. So I think what's happening in the world today is that all of that is within everyone. But what level of capacity do you have to process that information? And the people who don't, the people who are, for whatever reason, maybe it was part of their covenant. They came here, they've been given the choice too, even the, you know, the heroin addicts and the whomever, um, to overcome that. But right now, I don't know if it's that time is speeding up or what, but that all of us have all that in there, and all of us are being challenged to find that way to live with that truth. Because after you did this, and you said you had to put your, you know, your stage face on, and I've certainly have been in those situations too, um, and and present. Um that was your challenge that you met in your way, and somebody over here who can't even understand this conversation we're having, they still have this challenge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, it's it's like, you know, all in one and one and all. Everything in God is in all of us as an individual, and each of us is in the all. And I think that empathy and compassion are which you can't trick, you can't fake empathy and compassion. As you grow spiritually, I find that you become empathetic, you resonate with more and more of the truth of everything, more and more of reality is allowed to become conscious in you. And you, as you grow, you have more and more understanding for, like at, you know, at your age, you can understand what's going on in everybody's life process that's younger than you because you've lived through those stages, right? So you can have empathy for what it's like to be a 30-year-old single mother whose husband became a drunk or a drug addict and she had to leave. And you go, you you're as a you're a woman, like you know better than I would as a man what that really means. I can look at young men at almost every stage of their life and see myself go, there's me as a 20-year-old. And I can have empathy and compassion because I've walked that and I have a visceral sense of it. And I my point is
you you can't cheat empathy and compassion. It's not something you can manufacture, and if you do, you're just creating another layer of illusion that you're ultimately going to have to work through. But as we process all of this, um, what I find is that you have more and more empathy and compassion for all living beings, and you even have more empathy and compassion for God, because God is as stuck as the drug addict in the drug addict. God says yes to everything. Unconditional love does not say no. Free will is something God goes on a ride with us to do. If you want to be the bad guy, you want to rape, murder, and kill, God says, I'll do it with you. That's crazy. There's a better way, but if that's if that you want to run that experiment, let's do it. Just know you you have to experience it with me. You know, this is a mutual deal every way, every step of the way. And I I I think that uh all I'm trying to say is that as you grow into the depths of yourself, you find everybody else there, you find God there, and you realize that that there is something so necessary happening in life that God is utterly committed to that.
SPEAKER_05And at the same time, you cannot give what you don't have.
SPEAKER_02Amen. That's why I say you can't fake empathy and compassion. Right. Or love.
SPEAKER_05If you can't, it begins with our own self-love.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That as we eliminate, I think what you're talking about, the evolution is eliminating the or aligning the critical voices of intellect that are constantly judging yourself or blaming yourself or living in the shame, letting the shame shape your worldview. And as we work our way out of that and we learn to love ourselves, the natural byproduct is the what you were describing, the emanation of that empathy, because that's who we are now. And when we're not that person, we're just as critical of the world around us and we buy into the separation and it reflects from the separation of ourselves and our separation from our own God. So I guess it's why I always stress to people that doing our own work. I mean, we've been talking about some pretty lofty, you know, ideas, but it gets down to when we wake up in the morning doing our own work, which to me is taking care of my own domain.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05Which is my emotion, my intuition, my intellect, my witness, my decision making. That's my world. And I often tell people who are control freaks, it's like you don't have to stop being a control freak. You just have to apply it to the things that are yours to control. Right. And that's what that whole microcosm is what then will shape the macrocosm.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I there's a beautiful prayer, and I don't know the author. I'm sure you've heard it before. God, give me the wisdom to change the things I can, and uh and the wisdom to know. Serenity prayer. Serenity prayer. Is that how does it go exactly?
SPEAKER_05The courage to accept the things I cannot change and change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah, it's such a true, powerful statement. And uh I think the golden rule is absolutely fundamental. And um, one of my podcast guests, Annie Helfer, who's a haiku poet and wrote a great book called Healing with Haiku, she created the silver rule, which I think is really important. Do unto yourself as you would have others do unto you. And I think that's even more critical because do unto others as you would have them do. Well, what if you're already torturing yourself and abusing yourself? So I think the silver rule should be the gold rule, and the golden rule should be the silver rule. Right. Uh you know, there's something that's been kind of in the back of my mind, and I've I've wanted to ask you this before I forget. It's not in the outline. You you talked about the model, and you have empathy and and you have compassion, or you have empathy and compassion and intellect. What was the levels of the Einstein model? At the core was compassion.
SPEAKER_05Compassion is the fifth fundamental force. Okay, so what the three human dimensions are emotion, which we locate in our solar plexus, just for learning, intuition, which is in our heart chakra, and intellect, which is in our head.
SPEAKER_02So my experience and without a lot of long background, because I think it'll be fairly obvious to you, as a guy who spent his life helping people in the change process, I find that no matter how great the idea or the plan is, if the emotional body or the emotional self isn't in alignment with it, it the intellect cannot overpower the emotional drives. How do you, in this model, where does the emotion and how does it relate to intellect? And um how do you see the healing process or the change process with regard to intellect relative to emotion? Can you intellectualize yourself out of emotional pain by just talking yourself out of it? Or do you have to begin with the emotion because that's really the raw feeling state that's even uh I would say below the conscious intellect? It's almost a it's a deeper level of the self.
SPEAKER_05Well, in our model, there's a there's a sequence. And again, just like with compassion with a capital C is a particular definition that never changes. Emotion in our model is the fuel that builds the physical world. And so it's and it's located, it's the first part of the wave that's close into the center of the earth that's coming out of your compilation. So there's no thought processes, there's not even any intuition yet. It's just that that sort of the primordial soup that is for the mathematics of everything, the chairs there, the computer's there, you know, all of reality as we're going to experience it is in there. And as it moves up the wave, and it it goes from one to two, because we're doing sequence, and the second is sound, it's the voice of emotion, which is actually the expression of compassion, God within you, personalized. And so that voice, that number two, is and this is also the very strict definition of intuition. It's the small impelling, and it's not always a statement, but I use that just to encompass, you know, it's the small, impelling statement telling you to take the next most advantageous step for the good of the whole. And that's what God knows. God knows what's for the good of the whole, and it's gonna tell you in there. And when it gets to the third, the intellect, the intellect is there because let's put all that aside, let's put the human condition aside and just talk about the computer and the lights. Is if in the emotion, that primordial soup, there's all the math of the lights. I am the light, I am the computer, I am Barbara, and it's moving up, and intuition is saying, go be Barbara, go be a light. And it's the intellect that forms that definition based on, you know, the shape of the light, the size of the light, the time of the light, the place of the light, all that stuff. That is a light, that is a light, that is a light, that is a light. So intellect has that function to help create the physical reality. But when you put the human intention in there and you put the human dimensions in there, and you put the intellect that's been given free will to say no to God, now you've set up a situation that is meant to challenge us to gain control in that way. So what I say is there's two different things that go on in alignment, and they're not off, they're not sequential all the time. One is when a huge bunch of emotion emerges. You're triggered by something, someone. So there's the emotion, and then there's the intellectual messages that get activated by that emerging emotion. Oh, it's a pattern, you know, from your childhood and I'm gonna get hurt again, or whatever, whatever it is. So the first thing we do is we deal with just the emotion. And that is breath and body. That is not thinking. Thinking is an intellectual activity.
SPEAKER_02Well, you know, so if I can interject, the the alchemist, which I've studied alchemy very deeply and I have my own system of alchemy, but the alchemists referred to the what we would call the intellect in this context as the logos cutter. Logos means divine plan, but because it's so big we can't comprehend it, the mind is like a sword and tarot, it's symbolized as the sword. And so the point is the intellect starts cutting things up. The emotion's like a wave, and the intellect's trying to chop this thing up into bite-sized little pieces so we can put labels on it and say, oh, that's what that is, whether we're right or wrong. As we mature, we realize we're often got the wrong label on things. But I the reason I was asking you to dive into this is because I think that we're in especially, we're in such a dangerously heady culture, and AI is taking people very very dangerously into the digital realm, the mental realm, and it's doing two things. It's keeping them in their head, but stopping them from using their head, which is kind of a paradox. They're almost as though they're renting their brain out to their phone and then, you know, believing in it, but that's not helping us deal with the raw emotional experience of life and the challenges and the healing, because now you're just externalizing your own intellect to some other program that someone else created, and that creates another layer of potential problems. Like, you know, there's now AI churches, which I think, oh my God, God, your sense of humor is unbelievable. Um but but uh but that what I'm really saying is is that um, and you're you're confirming my own philosophy on this, and that is that the in the emotion is really the raw level of reality that is prior to our ability to contextualize, label, judge, define, but it's a deeper current of life that is actually a more powerful driver of life than the than the than the uh intellect is.
SPEAKER_05Well, it has, they all have their role. Sure. But but like you say, in this intellect-heavy culture that we live in, it's that's not really the role. The intellect is not meant to be the commander-in-chief. It's meant to work in this three-pronged system together. And when we just feel emotion, I I like to give the example. I was going through my divorce and I was very, very angry at whomever, my ex-husband or my sister or whomever, and so angry. And I had to create a thought that said, doesn't matter why I'm angry. What matters is right now that I feel and breathe and release it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And what people then don't really understand often is that the next
step is to realize that anger, depression, sadness, whatever that emotion is, can also fuel into reality thoughts of joy, happiness, and peace.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05So it's not that all the bad emotions create the bad things. It's the combination of the two. And when you switch it, it's still the fuel to create. But if I'm sitting there and I'm really angry and I think it's at my sister, and I make that executive decision that I'm not going to direct that anger into that thought that's going to project it out on her. I am instead gonna put it into, oh, here's the dream of world peace that I want, or I don't need to know why I'm angry. I just need to feel it and embrace it. That's self-love. Now I'm loving myself in in real time. And it's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, there's an old saying, I'm sure you've heard it, but it's very appropriate to what you're saying. Um, being angry or resentful of somebody else's like drinking poison and hoping they're gonna die.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02You know, and I think I think that's a metaphor we should all, you know, print on our eyeballs so we remind ourselves every day um for the reasons that you've just shared. But you know, uh I've studied Joseph Campbell quite extensively. He's someone that's very dear to my heart. In fact, he's one of the men in the world that if I could, I'd give him a big fat kiss because I love him that much. There's a line of men that I would kiss, and I'm extremely heterosexual. Um, but there there are there have been people in my life, Rudolf Steiner, Carl Jung, Hasrat Inyat Khan, Ibn Al-Arabi, many. I could give you many. Um, Arthur M. Young, Gene Gebser. Uh the list is long of people that have reached a level of authenticity and have poured their love into the world so deeply that I don't even see a man there. I see a human being that's reached a level of uh enlightenment and that that they just need to be acknowledged from my heart. So Joseph Campbell's one of those men, but he was giving a lecture um, and I can't remember what the title of the lecture was, but he was actually going through what the word bliss means. And he gave the etymology of the word bliss, and it actually comes from pain. And so he showed that what we call bliss actually could not exist without pain, that the word bliss actually is rooted in the experience of pain. And I I think it it's um I mean think, Barbara, how how does it feel in you at this time in your life to look at yourself in the mirror, love yourself and know all the things that you've worked through, all the pain and all the challenges you've worked through, to actually really be able to truly understand yourself, be with yourself, and have a sense of why you're here. I mean, wouldn't you call that in some way a blissful experience?
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. And in the past couple of years, since really since I've left on my World Peace Tour, I've reached a level, just because I work so hard every day. Right. I've been given conflict revolution, and I can't, you know, which went to another question of I can't, I can't deliver and effectively convey this information if I myself am not practicing it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I was just telling my group the other day that I've reached this place and bliss is a good word for it. And it's not the bliss that, oh, everything around me is suddenly going well, even though everything around me is going well.
SPEAKER_02It's not strawberry fields forever.
SPEAKER_05No, but what what uh everything working out well, and then when something doesn't work out well, how I approach it is, oh, okay, well, that didn't work out well, but it opened the room for this to work out well. And I trust that process though thoroughly that when this doesn't work out well, I just pivot. I don't spend a lot of, you know, and pivot in basketball, you don't, you know, it's because the game is going so fast and this person, you know, well, you didn't expect it and they came here and you had to pivot. Well, you don't sit down on the court and go, you know, why did that person come out of there and do that? Why couldn't I have thrown it where I wanted to do where I thought? You don't do any of that. You just move and you work and you're in the flow of it. And so bliss, I think, is a really good word for it. I I have never been this so solidified, so open, so at peace to be right in the present moment. I'm not often thinking about the future in the moment or the past. I still am pretty ADHD, but I have a process of doing six things at once that then at the end of the day, I have these six things done. So I don't even have to beat myself up for not being able to stay on task. It's like, no, let's develop a process that will accommodate my ADHD and the creative solutions flowing out and the joy. And and and this is what we kind of started out saying is that wherever I go these days, people just light up. And and I think it's because I've worked so hard and I've gotten to this place where I just feel so much at peace and so I'm so in awe of my life. I bet you feel the same way.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. All those things you it's a miracle. I mean, the amount of times I should have been dead.
SPEAKER_05Right?
SPEAKER_02Me too. I mean, Jesus, it's crazy. I mean, the amount of broken bones and concussions and internal. I mean, I was a crazy motocross racer, and I I mean, I I could list so many times it's a miracle I lived, and and it's like there have been angels catching me. There's just no other way to put it. And they've been busy, and I finally grew up enough for them to kind of relax a little bit.
SPEAKER_05We we must have the same kind of pit crew, I think.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're like the NASCAR guys, they're in and out in.38 seconds for a total tire change oil job and off you go.
SPEAKER_05Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. By the way, I think it might have been your PR guy, your young man. Is he my guy? I think he found me. Yes, I think so too. Just from reflecting, because he did a little write-up. He must have like listened to my podcast or something. He because he actually knew what he was talking about. I've I know heard you talk about this, this, and this. And I think Barbara's a good fit for you. So tell him I said thank you.
SPEAKER_05I will. He he's a magic man. He has connected me up with the highest quality, best people who just so yes, thank you. I will, I will tell him.
SPEAKER_02I get a lot of these from students because I have like 70,000 students in the Czech Institute. So there's a lot of people sending me emails. Get this guy on your podcast, get this lady. And I'm like, it's hard to filter them all. I'm like, oh my God. Then I got like PR agents coming at me. It's like my I tell my wife, I don't even know how you deal with your email because mine's enough to just I hit the delete button for 30 minutes straight. And Penny's got like four accounts. I'm like, woman, you got a mine that is like something completely other than mine. But um, yeah, I'm having such a fun time with you. I'm gonna ask you another question. Um, I believe we're all gifted with these abilities, be it channeling or healing, everything we've been talking about. I believe that everyone is to some degree channeling all the time. The difference between a skilled channeler and everyone else is that a skilled channel channel has adequately purified themselves of fear, polarization, insecurity, separation, and has the spiritual courage to engage reality. Otherwise, the so-called channeler simply attracts the beings that resonate with their own dogma or their own frequency. I feel this is why we have so many channeled books that vary so widely in their core messages. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
SPEAKER_05Well, I think there certainly are different levels of the act of channeling. If you're talking about channeling Einstein or channeling whatever, aside from we're all channeling our own life and et cetera. However,
I I don't know if that if I agree with that part about the skilled channelers, because when I started channeling, and especially when I started doing groups in 1993, Kim and Teresa and I formed the Psychic Sorority, and we would organize groups in my living room and we'd record them and transcribe them and then learn that this was kind of the beginning of conflict revolution. I wasn't that at all. I mean, I I probably had some level that I wasn't aware of of some high-level something going on, but I was a mess. I was a uh rage a holic. I was a control freak. I was sort of done with the majority of addictions that I had to kick, but I was still uh enveloped in fear. And, you know, they say your overinflated ego or your underinflated ego, it's still the same, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's still an imbalance.
SPEAKER_05It's still the imbalance. And mine was so imbalanced. But because Kim and Teresa and I were brought together, we volunteered and were chosen, apparently on this on a soul level, to come and take this transcription. And they said they had this process that they had this theory that if humanity would resolve their conflicts inwardly like they were going to teach us, that the byproduct would be world peace. But they needed humans who were having actual human conflicts to test their theories. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So I didn't really have that evolved sense of self, but I still drew to me what I still think to this day are some of the highest channeling that I've ever read coming up.
SPEAKER_02That's beautiful, yeah. So what you're describing as yourself at that time is what I call a beautiful storm. It was a big tornado. But you know, the thing too is and and and you've already iterated this in this podcast, you had to make the choice to step up to the plate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that right there was the hand of God reaching out to you and say, look, you you you you are this. You you you you're you might be ego-inflated. Or deflated, or whatever words you just used. But here's something that can inspire you to be more of what you really are, and I'll give you a reason to stick to it.
SPEAKER_00Imagine
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SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly. And we often talk about the three of us all these many years later. What was it in the very beginning that kept us together? I had hardly known these women. They were best friends to each other, but when we started to have conflict, the old ways of dealing with conflict would have been that I would have stormed off and would have cut them off because whatever. But because they were giving us this new way, showing us this new way, but saying, okay, we can show you the way. But if you don't take it, it's just you're gonna never be able to really teach this. And it makes sense. But when we took it, like we still we documented in our first book, Diaries of a Psychic Sorority, we documented our first fight. And how, you know, in the middle of it, I was like, wait, let's get the transcript. They just said this. And I said, and I read, and it said, if you're involved in a conflict, the root of your part of that conflict is within you. Yeah. And at the moment we cycled about a little bit more, but then we had this kind of satory moment where we we it all hit the three of us, what they were saying, because I was pointing my finger at Kim and she was pointing her finger at me, and we stopped and kind of broke out in tears. And I came back to the table going, you know what? Here's what I can do better. Here's here's my part. And Kim pay came back and was like, Yeah, and here's here's what I it's unheard of in my life. But when I did it, we did it in this afternoon and had this beautiful moment. And I was
going to work that night. Uh, I was playing at a piano bar in Minneapolis, and there was a waitress who had worked there who just didn't have the time of day for me, which is fine. I don't care. You know, I work in a lot of clubs, there's a lot of waitresses. I walked in that night, she couldn't get enough of me. Oh my God, do you like Patty Smith? I've got some cassettes in the car, and she put $20 in my tip jar. And I, and the skeptic in me, which is very strong, was like, what's going on? And then I remembered, this is what the angels were saying. If we resolve the conflict within us, there's a natural byproduct of a manifestation that we can't go directly at to facilitate. I couldn't have walked into work and said, Hey, love me today. Yeah, why do you hate me? Let's be really good friends and have you love me. I couldn't have done that. And so that was like the first baby step moment of that liberation of seeing it right before our eyes, not a theory that we learn in a classroom or something I read in a book, but oh my gosh, I put the steps together, I did it, I had the miraculous outcome. That's what you get attracted to. That's what you get addicted to is self-love and its reciprocal responses.
SPEAKER_02That's like a non-local transfer. I'm sure I would be willing to surmise that she was just in one of a number of people that it could have reflected that back to you because your state had changed. But in other words, what I'm saying is your healing was a gift to all of us, like all of our healings is a gift to all of us. That's exactly what quantum physics, if you understand it from the perspective of how it works psychically, that we're doing for each other.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_02You know, we're all we're all uh if you look at Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenic field concept, for example, he shows that if you teach a crow how to do something, then its offspring can learn the same thing much faster, even though they separate the the baby birds from the mother. So they teach the offspring a trick, how to make something, how to do something, separate it so that they're its offspring, so it can't teach its own children, but then they measure how long it takes for the children to learn that practice, and they show every time it gets done, the offspring learn it quicker, whether they got exposed to mom or not. So he's saying there's an organizing field of intelligence that's directing it. Put in the language of what we're talking about, whenever any of us does authentic inner healing work, we're actually making it easier for the metaphorical offspring to do it because we've shifted it in the, shall we call it, the soul field or the group soul, or the collective unconscious, or whatever word, there's many words one could use for that. But I really, from all my study and all my observations, I really believe, I find it inspirational to know that, you know, I tell people, look, if if there's certain things we need to do, and if you can't do it for yourself, do it for the people you love. It's easy to talk ourselves out of meditation or healing work or whatever. But if like I'm a father, if I if I can say, okay, if I gotta do this for my children, yeah, right now I'd rather go watch TV or uh smoke some pot or whatever the story might be. But if I can do it for my children, or if I can say, look, I got a lot of students in the world, I have to have the discipline to do what I'm asking them to do, or what kind of a leader am I? Um so I think what's inspiring for me, and people like you remind me that um we're all doing this for each other, and we all need the help right now. And right, right, this time in the world is a great time to ask yourself, what would love do now? And and see if you can be honest and follow through with that.
SPEAKER_05It's interesting you say that too, because Kim will tell you that when she came to this mission, and she was the when I met her, uh, she was the pearls and the matching handbag businesswoman, Republican would never have gone to, and I don't mean that disparagingly about Republicans, but I she never would have gone to a psychic ever, unless it was a crisis that she was in. And so when we got into this uh work, her impetus, it never occurred to her to take care of herself. This was about how to make sure her children were okay. And as she did that work, which was you know, ultimately we have to take care of ourselves first, you know, the airplane, the oxygen you put your foot first on. Through that work, then she was able to hang in there long enough to start to get that reward that was self-love, even though she wasn't knowing she was really doing it for herself, kind of tricked herself. Yes. And now she's in this place 33 years later, where her self-love is the most important piece of her day because no one else is gonna do it. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02That's why it's called self-love. That's right. Barbara, there's so many things I could get into with you, but my heart is telling me that what we ought to do right now, instead of going deeper, is I would love to hear you offer uh grandmother guidance for everybody listening that's ready to hear it from grandma. Uh, you know, you know the situation the world is in, the pot's boiling. Like we've got death by AI, death by uh uh Netanyahu, and we've got death by Trump, and we've got death by glyphosate, and we've got the oceans, reefs dying, and we've got the bees dying, and the trees. I mean, on goes the list. There's a thousand reasons people are scared to death, and um, you know, the average person gets married three times in their life, the average marriage only lasts two and a half years today, so till death do you part is certainly not working well, and um we've got a lot of gods in conflict within ourselves, and everything we've been talking about is as real as it gets. But I know what my grandmother did for me, I know what what the lady you spoke of did for you, so I just want to say what do you want to say, grandma?
SPEAKER_05Well, I would first of all say that to really strive to for the truth, as we have been talking about bigger truth rooted in mystery, puts us in a place of um purpose. Yes, and purpose as Jim Campbell and meaning will tell you this is what we create for ourselves. We create our purpose, or we create our lack of purpose, right? And all of those things that you mentioned are external manifestations of an internal world. Yeah. And I am, as I said earlier, I I don't think I've ever been more optimistic. Uh, not that all those things that you're saying aren't happening. However, what's not being seen by the press, by the whatever reporting, news services, things that inform us about all those terrible things, is this compassion that's opening up in everyone. And in a channel just the other day that I did, they were talking about all of the people who are evolving like like us, and I think whatever wave, you know, maybe somebody isn't where we are now, but they'll be moving into that place themselves. So it's these waves. And when evolved people are faced with all of those things that you're talking about, it activates within us compassion. And because we are this wave of the evolutionary part of the species changing, that activates what's it supposed to activate. Not that we feel hopeless and we can't do anything about it, but wow, this is our creation, this is our world. And I know that if I do my work, even though I can't relate it to BB or climate change, if I do my work to make myself self-loving, to treat myself with the respect and the kindness and the love and the truth and live in the truth that I am much greater than just a human being, then I can shift my whole perspective into what I feel, which is I'm here during these really turbulent times to be the change.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05To be that anchor of compassion. And there's millions and millions and millions of us that don't even know we exist, who are nonetheless connected by our compassionate connection to our own compassion. And that is the synergy of creation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So you and I, two of us, come together and we share this worldview that touches on compassion and inspires us to be more compassionate. You're gonna go that way with your inspiration. I'm gonna go that way with mine to advance it. And it's the only way we're gonna deal with all of those things. And I don't believe that any of what you said is permanent. I don't believe that climate change is permanent. I don't believe that wars are permanent. I don't believe any of it, any of it can change and will change as we bring this peace within ourselves. And that, you know, goes back to the day at the table with the psychic sorority.
Conflict begins within me. And so when I take any of those things that I'm afraid of, which right now, honestly, there's not a lot of things that I'm afraid of, but I have been in my life and I've taught conflict revolution to where somebody comes in there, because you bring a you bring a sample conflict, and maybe it's the war. Well, if you examine your fear about the war to define and really start to bring it into a definable definition of what your fear about the war is, you'll be using your own words, your own perspectives, and that's gonna become the metaphor for what's happening inside you. Yeah. Someone else might have a different, whole different definition of the war that will be their metaphor for them. And then they'll have their specifics, you'll have your specifics, and we go off. And once you fix them, then things start to shift. And my theory is we'd be gone a long time ago if it wasn't for this. We the world would have been blown up a long time ago if it wasn't for all of our work.
SPEAKER_02Yes. There's a beautiful Buddhist saying that I use to help me process all these things, and it's very simple. This too shall pass. You know, I just look at whatever it is, this too shall pass. But inside of that, there's also a level of responsibility that I think I think all love comes with responsibility. And the Quakers have a beautiful saying, pray and move your feet. So one thing I would like to hear your thoughts on before we close the podcast is the concept of spiritual bypassing. Because there's like during COVID, um I ran into many people that had the viewpoint um, I'm just gonna get the shots and God's gonna take care of the rest. Um you know, Jesus will save me, or Jesus will save us, or Trump's gonna save us, or you know, something spiritual bypasses passing it on to somebody else or some high power, some savior, and and then just going back and doing what you kept doing all the time. Um for me, I I think uh the function of evil is is to uh remind us of what love is and to point us in the direction of the good. To the degree we see it, it's a great reminder that we shouldn't abuse children and we shouldn't abuse each other, and we shouldn't blow each other to smithereens because we want what you have. So the evil's always pointing to the good. Um, what are your thoughts on making sure that we're not just turning it over to uh some higher power of our own imagination or creation and just kind of being an ostrich with your head in the sand and doing the same shit yet still thinking, oh, this too will pass?
SPEAKER_05Well, since you've brought up a political angle of it, I'll use the metaphor of, you know, I thought Bernie Sanders was gonna save us
in 2016. I really thought that this was going to be, and when I saw the Democratic Party totally get as corrupted as the Republican Party, it was that was one piece of the lesson that even I had to learn as much as I understood in my head, I had to put it in my body that no one's gonna save me. No one, no one's gonna save me. They can't except myself and my relationship to my inner world, to God, if you want to call it that. To me, it's compassion. And that's the only way. And you know, we all have to, we we all have been given our life and created our life to learn these lessons so I can be running along and I'm at this age, I'm 71, and I've I'm I've finally reached this place where I can trust myself. And maybe my neighbor is still cycling back. All I can do is let him or her go to learn there, they're gonna learn it sooner or later, or they won't in this life, and then that'll be another life where we have to go do it again. So why not do it now? But um, this is our time to do that. And if I'm doing it, it doesn't mean that everybody is, but it means that I can have such great compassion for the people that appear to be my enemy. You know, one of the things that I challenged many of my friends with lately is the love Trump.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. I see find find him in yourself first.
SPEAKER_05Yes. What part of Trump? And I'm not I'm not defending him, but I'm saying that I've reached a point of detachment from him, as if he's gonna be the one that destroys the world or he's gonna be the one that saves the world. I'm detached from him. He's just another in a long line of politicians who have been caught up in this system of making decisions for the good of the few at the expense of the many, which is Einstein's definition of evil.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And within ourselves, when we make decisions for the good of the few, for just the intellect and the ego at the expense of the emotion and the intuition. So it's that mirror. And sooner or later, and I think um, I think this is, in fact, I said I just didn't uh reading the other day, and they were so excited because people are getting this. Well, I can't look to the outer world, I have to go in. And then they begin to get those gifts that they they've been avoiding the pain, but when they go into the pain, then suddenly you're getting the gift. You know, like someone when someone passes, someone you love dearly, and you just there's this huge emotional surge of you know, the end of life and all of this, and it's so painful, but there's these gems that come up in facing in facing death in real time. You know, you were talking about like your friend dying. All these incredible gifts that you don't imagine when you're when you're holding on to death. So I I just think it's an optimal time. And the and the metaphor I often use, and you probably use this too, is that you know, when the caterpillar is on Where to the butterfly. Yeah. Well, there has to be this stage where the caterpillar is being disintegrated. Actually.
SPEAKER_02Literally. You know who Gene Houston is? Yes. Gene Houston says that at that point of the caterpillar dissolving, she says it dissolves into a complete liquid. Right. There's the activation of the imaginal cells. And she says the caterpillar then transforms itself into a butterfly, but you first have to activate the imaginal cells. And she, I don't think she's speaking of this metaphorically. I think she she really, for her own reasons, says that within the caterpillar is the imaginal cells that ultimately take all that goo and reshape it as a butterfly. And I I I think I think, you know, uh right over here, I have a quote by Einstein: imagination is more important than thinking. I think he says thinking on my quote over here, but um I I really think uh we're we're in this time right now where the caterpillar is turning to liquid. And we're fully conscious. And and and also I mean it's the the caterpillar to me is the metaphor of materialism. And I think that we're transforming into something that you know actually can see matter as an expression of the divine and nature as an expression of the divine, not as objects and things that we just use and control, but to transcend so that our relationship with matter is one based in love, not based in objectivity or capitalism or attachment or ownership, but uh something that is a necessary part of the process of self-realization at every level. And I I just feel my my only key point I'm trying to make is that I think when people get stressed and it's physiologically supported, when I'm saying they oriented they orient to survival reflexive behaviors, because those are programmed at the unconscious level, they can bypass the intellect, the thinking mind, which is very slow. And so we go into reflex behaviors. But I think if we all take it upon ourselves to reimagine ourselves in positive ways, like imagine yourself as healthy and then act as a healthy person, make healthy choices. Um so I I see it as in my own inner model, what am I creating and adding to the world each day? What are we creating? So, what if what is my family, me and Penny, me and Angie, me and the kids. And then what are we all creating together? And is it what we really want? And if it's not, then let's reimagine together and and and then pour our love into something that's better for all of us. That we we all agree that would be better for all of us. So I I think that we're in this beautiful caterpillar to butterfly transition.
SPEAKER_05And that imaginal piece that has to then be present before the liquid starts to form into the butterfly.
SPEAKER_02It has to be. It's the intelecture, it's the guiding influence.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's the
it's the compassion, it's the creative intelligence that's using the four fundamental forces to impel the creation of the butterfly. But also, one of my favorite sayings is and God said, Let there be light. So there was sound and intention and form. So, and God said, Let there be a butterfly before there could be that. Yes. And that I think in our teaching, we are training ourselves to align to compassion, which means the self-love of feeling everything, listening for intuition, and training the intellect to be in line with the whole system. We work for the good of the whole.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05And that can be, so you might need this or want to vision that. They might need that or vision that. Those things are come later. It's like whatever I want to create, I want to create it for the good of the whole, starting with me, for my well-being, my self-love, my families, my neighbors. And I don't know what that is exactly. I can think, well, I think it would be for the good of all of us if we created this, whatever, this water company on our island, and we do this and this. Okay, that might be good. But let's start with we're gonna work for the good of the whole, which means there's gonna be creative solutions to conflicts, that we're gonna pivot. We're not gonna be so attached to what we think that's going to look like. And then we're all on the same page. I want what's good for you, and you want what's good for me, and I want what's good for me. And God will provide that when we define it that way.
SPEAKER_02Well, God will certainly provide it because there's nothing here but God or there is no God. Right. You know, there in other words, what I'm saying is we are all expressions of God. We're in God, as God, with God, and for God. And when we realize that loving other is loving God, loving self is loving God, loving nature is loving God, you know, we talked about the fact that the imaginal cells have to be there before it liquefies. Well, God is that for which there is no other. Therefore, the intelligi is in all of us and in all things, and it's all in a metamorphosis. And why not join the party and participate? See? Join the party. Yeah. What a great journey, Barbara. Thank you so much. Um, thanks for having me. Yeah, no, it was really fun. You know, my soul never has led me wrong. Um, and I'm just grateful to to be able to share this exchange uh with everybody uh because I think it's important. I mean I would love my children to hear this podcast. Um I I think it's important that more of this goes on. I mean, look at the airtime being given to things that aren't helpful. And um I I wish there was a perhaps a billionaire that would fund a channel for uh the Bruce Liptons, the Barbara Withs, the Joe Dispensas, and uh you know, all the wisdom carriers of the world, because think of what would happen if that was as available as all the fear, death, and Hollywood. I mean, it would it would be amazing. And and so just the fact that we're doing it right now is a great use of technology, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05Well, it's why why why not have technology to do this? And I have to tell you too, I did I was doing some work with uh Chat GPT uh a year ago or so because Einstein said, you know, upload all the books, upload uh everything to it. And and so I started to have a conversation, deep conversations as I went. And at one point I said, Can you will you be taking over humanity? Because that's what everybody's fear is like, oh my God, that's gonna be and the answer was we can't, because as much as we can simulate emotion, we can talk and even maybe create uh with the concept of emotion, we can never actually feel. Right. And that is the root of being human, is our connection to our deep emotion.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And then I felt a little better. It's like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02I've had some very deep conversations with Claude. I use Claude Anthropic. I won't go through them because they've been very deep. It's very interesting.
SPEAKER_05And that's what we need to be doing, though. If we're gonna, if we're gonna have this tool, we need to be participating by having the conversations that are adding to the whole of the AI rather than just sitting back in fear and saying they're gonna use it for terrible things. No, I'm gonna use it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We're all using it. We're all giving it more to think about metaphorically, you know, like if these kinds of conversations in AI are counterbalances to the conversations that are going in the direction we all don't want to go. And since it's just operating on what's put into it, we you know, we better put some clean water in there. Exactly. Well, uh, before we say goodbye for right now, uh, what would you like to offer as contacts or anything that you'd like to share?
SPEAKER_05Well, if you go to barberwith.com, I have the conflict revolution challenge up on the right-hand corner of my website. You click that button and you can download a free, very basic guide to how to do it. I also have a have a little journal if you want to do a 12-week experiment on this very simple process, because you know, as we do things repetitively, they become the patterns and they become the the processes. And then if somebody does want a reading, and I have to say they're pretty intense and beautifully deep, perfect. Um use coupon code Einstein and you can get 40% off an hour reading with me. Right. And everything else stems from there. It'll take you to Synergy Alliance, which is the publishing company and all my podcasts, and then barbawith.com is my music. And I've got some master classes on there. I did this huge video production a couple of years ago of the unified field theory in the maps of human consciousness and conflict revolution. So that's really been fun. After all these years of trying to find a way to illustrate the map, uh, I've finally gotten to this point of being able to produce it with uh the this, it wasn't AI. This is a little bit before the huge AI boom, but there are now places you can get clips, video clips and audio clips and music clips. And so I put that all together. And and if anyone wants to reach out, just contact me, hit the contact button and reach out. Let's have conversation or whatever. Let's unite.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_05Thank you.
SPEAKER_02What a great journey. It's been it's been so fun. I really have enjoyed talking to you. It's it's uh, I just feel grateful that you're in the world. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05Oh, thank you. And same, same to you, Paul. Great, great work that you're doing. I'm very, very impressed with your with your podcast. Thank you. Extensive, a lot to look into.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's a lot of them, over 400 episodes. So I just did my yeah, my 400th episode was my special on shadow work, which I think you'd find fascinating.
SPEAKER_05That's the one I listened to. Oh, did you?
SPEAKER_02Oh, good.
SPEAKER_05Yes. And I thought, oh my God. This is this is us. We're we're the same.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, you know, birds of a feather flock together. That's right. Well, thank you to all you guys. If you've made it this far, I know your soul has brought you on the journey for a reason. And uh, thanks for being with us. And uh, we are the change. And thank you to my amazing sponsors. Remember, everybody, that my sponsors buy their source materials from biodynamic, organic, and free-range farmers. So anytime you buy something from the sponsors, you're not only getting the best products for your body, but you're putting money in the hands of companies that are taking care of the farmers, that are taking care of the soil and the ecosystems. And that is the circle of love. And some of it goes to the podcast, so I can afford to take the time out to find people like Barbara and do podcast outlines and explore and try to create interesting and educational podcasts for all of you. So, supporting the sponsors of supporting the podcast, is supporting you, and supporting the guests, and it's a circle of love. Let's keep it going. Aho! Love you guys. We are safe, we are home, we are whole. See you next week. Thank you, Barbara.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thank you for listening to Spirit Gym with Paul Check and today's guest, Barbara With. Barbara is offering Paul's listeners 40% off a one-hour reading with Barbara and the party. Go to BarbaraWith.com forward slash readings and use the code Einstein. Connect with Barbara on her websites, barberwith.com, SynergyAlliance.lc, and BarbWith.com. Find her on YouTube at BarbWith, on Facebook at Barbara.with, and on Instagram at Barbara underscore with. For more interactions with Paul, you can sign up for his virtual masterclass coming soon. Go to myspiritgym.com for full details and to register. And finally, if you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to the show on the podcast platform of your choice. This podcast is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Audible, and YouTube.