409 — Is Mother Earth Baba Yaga? With Dr. Joanna Kujawa

Toward the end of her first Spirit Gym conversation with Paul, Dr. Joanna Kujawa described how Baba Yaga insisted on being included in her recent book, Alien Goddess: UFOs, AI and the Goddesses of Ascension. 

Joanna and Paul continue their conversation about Baba Yaga and her connection to Mother Earth as the soul and guardian of our planet who has had quite enough of our human shenanigans and isn’t putting up with it any longer this week on Spirit Gym.

Learn more about Joanna’s work on her website and Substack. Find her on social media via Facebook, Instagram and YouTube.

Timestamps

7:01 Could Baba Yaga be Mother Earth, the spirit of our planet?

10:50 “The issue is authenticity.”

19:22 Joanna felt a sense of urgency while writing her book, Alien Goddess.

28:57 Becoming the change you want to see in the world by making small choices.

36:53 The four levels of consciousness.

44:55 Ignorance versus wisdom.

48:51 “Mystics see in the light what scientists try to measure but seldom get.”

1:02:02 The Ahrimanic deception.

1:12:55 The looming conflict ahead: Consciousness, how we define it and what we can do to prevent its suppression.

1:29:30 Are we too focused on the untruths?

1:35:50 Will this delusion of merging body and machine eventually end well?

1:43:52 A necessary sacrifice.

1:58:04 Ascending and descending waves of consciousness.

2:03:04 Why Baba Yaga is angry with us.

2:16:31 “We know what they are.”

2:30:24 Be a spiritual warrior in the face of oppression and suppression from AI and too much tech.

2:45:05 Communicating in liminal and imaginal space.

2:55:50 “As we evolve, God evolves.”

3:00:33 “The best thing you can do for God is to work on yourself.” 

Resources  

The Other Goddess by Dr. Joanna Kujawa

Mythologium 2026: Mythic Imagination rewatch

Rupert Sheldrake discusses The Science Delusion on YouTube

I, Robot (movie)

Mercy (movie)

The myth of Prometheus

The story of Enlil and Enki

The myth of Demeter and Persephone

Involution and evolution, according to Rudolf Steiner

Pistis Sophia

Farmers of Forty Centuries: Organic Farming in China, Korea and Japan by F.H. King

The work of Marie-Louise von Franz, Victor Frankl, David Bohm, Dr. Fred Allen Wolf, Dr. William Tiller, Sam Altman, Gregg Braden, Billy Carson, Rabia al Basri and Edward O. Wilson

Paul’s podcast conversations with Amit Goswami, Sean O’Laoire, Dr. Marc Gafni, Dr. Jared Horvath and Elizabeth Nelson

Paul’s podcast on Lucifer, Christ and Ahriman

Find more resources for this episode on our website.

Music Credit: Meet Your Heroes (444Hz), Composed, mixed, mastered and produced by Michael RB Schwartz of Brave Bear Music

Thanks to our awesome sponsors:

Paleovalley
BIOptimizers US and BIOptimizers UK PAUL15
Organifi CHEK20
Spirit Gym
CHEK Institute

We may earn commissions from qualifying purchases using affiliate links.

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Spirit Gym. Today, Paul welcomes back Dr. Joanna Kuyava, a tenured scholar with a background in medieval studies, who calls herself a spiritual detective. Her latest book, Alien Goddess, UFOs, AI and the Goddesses of Ascension, began, she says, with a moment of physical horror, a feeling she couldn't name until she realized she was staring straight at something mystics have warned about for centuries. In this conversation, Joanna traces an unbroken line from the Sumerian goddess Inanna's descent into the underworld through the Gnostic tale of Sophia's fall from Grace, all the way to today's headlines about artificial intelligence. Along the way, she unpacks the real difference between instinct and intuition, why certain scientists keep getting pushed to the margins, and what it actually costs in water, in attention, and in something harder to name every time we ask a machine to think for us. Before we get started, we'd like to say thank you for listening, as this podcast would not be possible without you, our subscribers and followers. We'd also like to thank our sponsors, Organifi, Biotimizers, Paleo Valley, and Wild Pastures. You'll hear their special offers and discounts throughout this episode, and your support of our sponsors means that we can keep bringing new episodes to you. And now here are Paul and Dr. Joanna Cuyava with a field guide for staying human while everything around you insists you upgrade. So, which level of consciousness is making your choices today.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Hello, everybody. Well, as you heard, we have one of my favorite people, the spiritual detective Joanna Cuyava back. And I'm super excited to share another podcast with her. I really love the first one that we did on her previous book. And uh Joanna, what was the name of your previous book? I'm brain farting on that. The other goddess.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

The other goddess, the other Magdalene and the goddesses of Eros and Secret Knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Right. Well, I listened to uh the alien goddess goddess on audiobook while working out in the gym. It took me, I don't know, a few workouts to get through, but uh it was really fantastic. I I loved it. And you know, people loved our first podcast. You got I got lots of great feedback from friends and people that I know. And I don't have I don't go check websites, but I I do get reliable feedback from people that I talk to a lot, and I got a lot of it, so it was great. Um You know, I I think Joanna, I just want to say for everybody, uh, here's the book. If you're watching the podcast, you can see the cover here. But um I just thought that everything that you covered in there was so important, especially for what's going on in the world today. And and I specifically wrote issues of the world into the podcast today, as you know. Um because I just feel one, I I really would love to hear your uh opinion on these things because you have looked into these things very deeply. And you really talked a lot about this in the Alien Goddess, about a lot of the you know, the issues of what's going on and uh the importance of our own spiritual development. Um and I think that's kind of the pivot point of world transition. It's it's not a thing where we can just hang around and wait for Big Daddy in the sky or or some politician to do it. It's it's a ground root, it's a grassroots movement that's got to happen. You know, I something Lao Tzu said to uh in his, I believe it was in Dao Deijing, he said the the the government always reflects the people. And so, you know, that's a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow. But Lao Tzu's somebody that you can rely on for honest information. And so I think that uh as we're gonna get into it, I think a lot of what we're really facing today is is our own shadow and in many, many respects, and our own ignorance and our own passivity and uh things that we can talk about later. Point being is I think it's it's the transformation's got to start with us, it's not something we can just wait for and hope for. That would be very childish. But something happened today that I wanted to tell you about before we dive into all this stuff, because uh it was very you. Um I bought the recordings of the 2026 Mythologem Conference from the Society, uh the International Society of Mythology. And they have been fantastic. It's I would highly recommend you consider that because the presenters, again, are very, very good, just like they were for the Soul in the Machine AI conference. And the one that I listened to today, the first presentation was on Baba Yaga. And I'm like, oh my God, I I actually know who this is. And and and so she was going through the whole myth again that uh because I heard it from you, but she threw some different stuff into it as well. And she was talking about how that myth appears in different cultures, like you did, because you meant mentioned Kali and and so, but the thing that she said that I thought was so important to our dialogue today, she said that you know, as you did, Baba Yaga could appear as a uh you know, a beautiful woman or or a very old, ugly woman. But she said, and some people said that she was very scary and she would even eat children. But the the lady that was given the presentation said something very interesting. She said when the hero, male or female, uh encounters uh Baba Yaga, if they're not ready for the journey or they're bullshitting themselves, those are my own words, then she becomes the the dark side. Then she's push then she puts you through it because she she's protecting the the rite of passage, she's making sure you are real. And but if you're but if you're genuine and you're ready and you're on the hero's journey, then she becomes the helper and she's very supportive. And she they said she said her house was always beautiful and had fruits and vegetables of every kind and very, very abundant. And so she would support heroes that were ready, but she would put the hammer on them if they weren't. And I thought that was great, and that kind of just reminded me of of the whole issue we're in. But

Could Baba Yaga be Mother Earth, the spirit of our planet?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

you know, maybe since I'm talking about it now, I'm gonna ask you a question because this this is what came to me as I was listening to this, and I wanted, I thought I gotta ask Joanna this. What if Baba Yaga is Mother Earth? What if she is actually the spirit of this planet? Because I I have a deep relationship with the black Madonna. But the Black Madonna, when she comes to me and and and sometimes she just shows up spontaneously in my meditations and will start talking to me, but she's she looks to me, having spent a lot of time in Australia, she looks to be an aboriginal woman. And I actually asked her, are you an aboriginal woman? She said, I'm the Aboriginal woman. And the word aboriginal means original man. But I thought, you know, what if if the story of Baba Yaga is true, you know, whether it's true in the literal sense or the mythological sense, both of them are equally true, for if someone's mature enough to understand that statement, then the question I wanted to ask you is is if Mother Earth is Baba Yaga, then that means that we might be up for some really interesting times coming up here.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

Absolutely. And I think you're spot on, Paul, because I think she and my whatever I would like to know the name of this woman, uh, because what she says is actually exactly what my experience and research about Baba Yaga, but more so my personal experience with Baba Yaga is. So she showed up, like Black Madonna for you, right? For me, and you know, she insisted that I include her in Alien Goddess, and she we'll talk about it probably later, but she's definitely the soul or the guardian of this planet. And I will tell you something, she had enough. She has enough, okay? And it's absolutely true. She is like this tough mama, meaning, like, uh, you ready? Because these times are serious. The whole, it is not about this planet only, although it is, this planet is more important, I think, that we actually realize cosmically and spiritually, but she is not going to put up with any BS. None of the pretense, none of the, you know, light and delight, but no serious shadow work, right? Like she will pace the shadow work. You can so she will give you the shadow work. And she and yes, she even when she came to me, although I didn't call upon her in my in my meditation in this leminal space, um, she I basically knew that if I'm annoyed with her, she can just break my neck. You know, like, okay, like she's done. You know that. So she will support you, but you have to be completely authentic. And I think in my journey, and I'm returning also to a previous podcast because you said something interesting to me before the podcast. If it's not fun, I'm not doing it.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:19

If it's not fun, you're not doing it. And I remember this, and it's true because when I turned 30, which was a while ago, right? I decided that, you know, I'm not going to listen to anybody anymore. But I couldn't, you know, because in my path, on my path, I really seem it seemed to that I'm asked to walk both paths, you know, like mainstream and like in academia and my own research. But at the same time, the for me,

“The issue is authenticity.”

SPEAKER_05 10:50

the issue is authenticity.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:52

And I last few years, especially, most of my life, but last few years especially, I focus on authenticity. And I think it is very interesting that Baba Yaga basically showed up at this point of my life. And although it was not said in a very kind of um literal way, it is like if you're not authentic, don't waste my time. Yeah. If you're not really, you know, into this, if you're not really into the journey, if you do not understand, you know, the gravity of a situation that I don't have time for you, basically.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

That's how I feel with my own clients. I'm just like, I'm not here to be your fucking babysitter. You know, if you're asking me for help, I tell you what you need to do, do it and quit complaining. You know, I and it's so funny because I've studied Marie-Louise von Franz quite a lot in my years of union study, and she used to do the same thing. If people showed up and she had given them stuff to do, she'd point them to the door and say, Don't come back till you've done what I asked you to do. And she'd just tell them to leave. And I'm like, I understand how she feels.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Yeah, exactly. And and and she she had Baba Yaga, you know, she has had enough, you know, and and with us, and our mistakes and taking wrong terms and agreeing to being slaves all the time and at the same time complaining about it all the time. So she basically says, get real, be authentic, walk your path.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

You know, and you cannot do it, don't waste my time. She's a tough, uh, she's a tough mama.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Well, this brings me to uh something I want to share because it's right in line with everything we're talking about. When the COVID lockdowns were on, I actually went to, I just call her um I my my name for her is mama. I mean, to me, she's just like the ultimate mother. She's very loving, you know. She always shows up to me, like I said, as an Aboriginal woman. She looks like she's about 65. She's a little heavy, uh, big-breasted, beautiful woman, but but like a very mature, wise-looking woman. You like like she's seen everything. Don't even try to slide anything past her. It's like, you kidding me? Um, but I was talking to her about this, and and I had done some deep plant medicine ceremonies uh in the period leading up to COVID, and I had a lot of visions of of really intense war going on, and and it was quite shocking to me. And and I I I had a a vision that was quite disturbing, and it was like I was right there, and I watched the um the Statue of Liberty in New York, I watched it fall over.

SPEAKER_04 13:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

And um I saw bombs hitting all over the place in the United States, and I'm like, what in the hell is going on, man? This is intense. And and so as all this Israel craziness started heating up that this, you know, about that's been going on, I'm like, oh my God, this is starting to feel like the vision I was having, you know. And so I actually asked my soul to take me to the Black Madonna mama, who who I think I'm gonna ask her as soon as I get into meditation tomorrow if she's Baba Yaga, too. And I said to her, I I told her about these visions I had, and I said, you know, what's going on? I'm a little concerned. I mean, what you know, I need to know what I should prepare for. You know, what do you think what's going on in the world with all this craziness? I just sort of poured my heart out to her about COVID and the the piracy of it all and and just things that were really concerning me. And um I I said, you know, what do you think's coming? What should I prepare for? She said, you know, she said to me, Look, you need to understand something. The earth is a place where souls come to learn and grow and mature, but it's like being in a elementary school. But she said, Humanity's now in its late teenage years, and they they have to learn to take responsibility for their actions. And she said, it's gotten to the point now where they're so destructive to my body that it's going to limit my ability to support souls coming in because they're destroying the environment. And she said that um there is going to be a very serious rite of passage coming soon. And she said, you know, you need to make sure you get your farm set up so that you can live pretty much off the land, because there's going to come a time in the next few years where everything that every system that you know that you're used to won't be there. The power grid, she said, you you won't be able to get things from stores. Um you're gonna need to be as self-sufficient as you can. So, you know, we spent a lot of money doing that. We put a shitload of money into our property and got battery systems and solar systems and well and every other thing you can think of. I mean, we spent a shitload of money, uh, and and we've got food backup and everything because I, you know, I I've had too much uh uh experience with these types of encounters that they turned out to be absolutely true in my life. For me, this isn't just mystical fairy tales, it's for real. And so she just she basically said to me, she said, Paul, you've studied rites of passage. She she knows all the things I've studied. You know that sometimes people don't make it through a rite of passage, and if they if it was easy, it wouldn't be a rite of passage. And she said, It it's time for uh humanity to grow up spiritually and start taking responsibility for the gifts that it's been given and respecting nature and respecting each other. And she said, What's uh coming is going to be a process in which she said it's it's painful for me to watch because you're all my children, but I also know that uh uh spoiled, rotten children don't grow up to be healthy adults and raise healthy children. And so I I share that with you because uh it was you know, as as much as I'm a realist, it's just hard to hear that, you know, to know like, okay, there's gonna be a lot of people starving to death. There could be, you know, look, look at all these war-torn areas, and we're gonna get into this later. But like the shit that's going on in the world is so stupid and so globalist, and so it's the shit that's been going on forever. But basically, in a nutshell, she just said, the planet can't take it anymore. You guys are abusing technology, you're destroying the ecosystems all over the world, and you're being very, very unfair to all the beings of nature that keep you alive. And she said, I'm I'm not gonna let this go on any further. And I had had a previous meeting with the spirit of the sun, who whose name he says is Um Umbakara, and he told me the same damn thing. He told me exactly the same thing. He said, Yes, it's there's a there's a an initiation is coming. And so these are very important things.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

These are very important things. And um, I am I actually spoke to a friend and I asked her, Do you think I'm crazy? Unfortunately, I don't have my own farm like you do. I really wish I did, because I absolutely agree with you know what your uh Baba Yaga told you. But in other ways, I prepared, you know, although my friends do not believe in this. My my concern now, just a private note, is that mid-May I'm going for two weeks in Europe and I'm not very happy about it because I have to visit my mom, you know, who is uh 85, and you know, there's some family situation there and uh family wedding, and for the first time in 19 years, I'm going back. And I'm not very comfortable doing that because I have a feeling that initiation is coming and it's true and it's coming soon. So I just hope I'll come back in time to Australia, yeah, because uh I actually know that this is my place now and I'm supposed to be here. So I'm just going this very quick trip and I'm coming back because I think that the message is coming through in so many ways.

Joanna felt a sense of urgency while writing her book, Alien Goddess.

SPEAKER_05 19:22

And even when I started to write uh Alien Goddess, which was like December 23, uh January 2024, uh I had the sense of urgency, although I didn't know why. The sense of urgency came from kind of uh intellectual shock, actually, uh, when I was uh reading about transhumanism and posthumanism. And then I had the sense of urgency that something is coming and we have to get ready. I have to figure it out for myself, but I also have to share it with other people. And collectively, we are we have no idea what's coming, we just have a feeling, but I think it's a collective feeling for anybody who has any spiritual inkling. Yes. And and so I completely agree that something is coming, and everything you said, um I feel the same way, you know, and it is almost like an underlying feeling, you know, underlying feeling. And what happens, I think, is that lots of people go straight into fear, into apocalypse kind of feeling, and they look into dark societies and so on. And I think you and I think you as well, me and you as well, I think like, no, we have the tools, you know, focus on that, don't go there. It doesn't matter, you know, like these things will happen either way. Focus on the tools, right? It is within you.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

You know, uh like uh for me it's a it's a sort of a I I don't even have words to describe it emotionally, um, because it's not something I've ever had to encounter in my life until COVID came. You know, you know, as a kid, Vietnam was going on, and you know, I'm I'll be 65 this August. So I've been around a while. I mean, there was no cell phones, and I mean, I remember when faxes came out, and it was like all this stuff. So I've watched a lot of stuff happen. I've seen uh how the United States government, many governments just you know, lie constantly and jerk people off and lie and manipulate and trickery and all the crap we're all we all know about. But I guess what I what I what I want to share with you and everyone listening is that I just felt torn inside because there are so many people that are just absolutely ignorant. They don't know any better, they've been educated in the system, they've been indoctrinated into the system, they're brainwashed with orthodox, dogmatic, religious ideas, and they're just they don't really. Have an adult rational mind. They don't even have an ego yet, most of them. And they have no idea what's going on right in front of them. I mean, you know, think how many people ran off and just got vaccinated because they believed what they saw on television. My God, it was billions of people that did that. And I'm like, my God, you know, if if you aren't conscious enough to see the absolute trickery going on right in front of you. So the part point I'm driving at is that it's you know, if if what we're talking about manifests, there's gonna be a lot of people out there that are scared to death, that that are gonna have severe hunger, and there's gonna be a lot of violence, and a lot of people, you know, people behave very irrationally when they're scared and hungry at the same time. And I just feel so sad. And I talked to to the Black Madonna about that, and she said, Yes, I understand. But she said, Don't forget, Paul, that the soul takes these bodies on. They they come here to to go through a learning experience, and it's not like the soul dies, it's it's part of a training process, it's part of the learning and growth process. And she said, It's important to have those human feelings, but it's also important to know the deeper truth. And the deeper truth is that that's what we come here for. That's what the earth is devoted to. It is a school where you learn to work with polarity and where you learn to uh you know understand the true uh function of good, beauty, truth, and love. And and that's what the lessons are built around. And and uh you you just have to understand she said, Imagine if you had the same feelings for a bunch of young soldiers going through basic training and you wanted to soften it up for them. They wouldn't be prepared for battle, they wouldn't grow up, they wouldn't mature, and they would never be able to protect anybody. But my point is just that it it's it's emotionally disturbing for me because the the warrior in me says that's what we got to do, but the father in me and the lover in me says, you know, it's so sad that we've come so far and we've got such advanced technology, but we still act like uh childish idiots and use all our technology to be doing lying and stealing and cheating and manipulating and disrupting and destroying and damaging nature. It's like, why can't we flip a switch on this shit and start doing good things with it?

Spirit Gym

SPEAKER_00 24:31

There's a rare opportunity coming up to learn from Paul in a live virtual masterclass, and he's inviting you to attend. He'll be sharing his wisdom and experience on how you can go from stuck, confused, and procrastinating to crystal clear on your purpose in life and how you can truly live the life you dream of. For more details and to register to attend, go to myspiritgym.com. Don't miss this rare opportunity to attend a virtual masterclass with Paul. Go to myspiritgym.com and sign up now.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

Absolutely. And it's very beautiful what you said. And I'm just as you were saying it, I was trying to find in my memory in one of the Gnostic Gospels. You know, Jesus actually says, you know, my heart cries for the children of humanity.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:21

And you know, and I completely understand and I feel the same. However, when I was writing Alien Goddess, I can just tell you I had a kind of a and after that. You like last December and this January, last January, I actually was experiencing something like splitting of timelines.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:39

And it was very painful, it was physically, emotionally painful, and it was very disturbing, as you can see, right? Because I could feel it in my own body and in my own consciousness. And I think something like that, and although it is difficult to understand, we just know something about multiverses and so on, something like that is really happening. And yes, I cry for children of humanity as well. And I think that I'm making it now my calling, you're telling them, you know, there are tools. And yes, all of these things are happening. And this is a form of revelation, actually, this apocalypse, right? So let's acknowledge that now we understand what's going on. There are all of this dark societies, and the government is doing this and that, and stop focusing on it. Acknowledge it. Yeah, and now focus on the tools which will actually help you to make choices as every situation occurs. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy. I struggle with it too, you know. We are all human, but we have to focus on the choices through the tools that we are given, because we are not thrown here into this kind of battlefield, let's let's call it this name, without without the tools and without the skills. We have them.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah, we do, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

And and and for centuries and millennia, great spiritual teachers were reminding us of these tools, reminding us that it is all about making choices. And I think that 2020 in some ways was good because lots of people woke up. Yeah. Even let's say they vaccinated or something, but then they thought, like, my goodness, why did I listen to this?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Oh, yeah. I've seen a tremendous awakening.

SPEAKER_05 27:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

You know, I I I I I I tell people the function of evil is to point to the good. And when you if you can see the evil, then do a 180, you know. You know, you look around. You you like we all know that you know, sexually abusing a child is a bad idea, and it ruins the child for their entire future. So to the degree you see other people doing that, you know damn sure what you should never do. To the degree you see people getting ripped off by globalists and bankers, make sure you're not ripping people off and on it goes from there. I mean, I think I think you know, we're in a, as Ken Wilbur says, we're in a wake up, clean up, grow up, and show up moment right now. And I think it's just deadly true.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

And also, I think it's it's actually starts with smaller choices because it's easier to say, oh, I'll never do this horrible thing or I will never do that horrible thing, because most normal people wouldn't, right? But then there are these other choices, this little temptations in our life. Yeah. And that's why I always say, and I guess later we discuss it, like in, for example, in the Gospel of Mar Magdalene, because I studied it, but in any other source, you know, from which level of consciousness, from which level of awareness, from which level of you you're making this choice? Or are you going just on automatic? Is it just an ambition? Do you just want to get ahead and be famous? Do you just want to have money? There's nothing wrong with it. But if it's if this is your major motivation, you know, this is a lower desire by higher and lower desires.

Becoming the change you want to see in the world by making small choices.

SPEAKER_05 28:57

So I think that the best way for most of us is to start making choices, small choices, as you know, we have to make in our lives. Okay, this choice is it based on this or that? You know, yeah, and having this gut feeling about it, you connecting with your body, connecting with the energy, which I just happen to call it, you know, goddess energy, with this in natural sense of knowing. What does it tell me? Never mind what the mind says, take it into consideration. Discernment is an important thing, but what does you know this energy or my body tells me? And if it is kind of backing off, is it because it is scared or is it because actually it's the wrong thing to do? So it requires lots of contemplation and at least a smallest pause before we make a choice, simple choices, one by one, because everybody will say, Oh, I'm against globalists, or oh, I am against what about your own life? You know, let's bring it back.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Where are you being a globalist?

SPEAKER_05 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I I, you know, when I teach my spirit gym students, uh practitioners, I and I was just having this conversation because I've got a group of um people in a special training program to be spirit gym mentors to train people in these principles. And I was talking about the fact that look, we have three levels of discernment. We have the gut system, the solar plexus, and our instincts. That's the home of our instincts. And so we also are very familiar with gut feeling. So, you know, what does the wisdom of your body tell you? What does your instinctual self tell you? Like it'll always tell you if you're overeating or under-eating or eating junk food, you just gotta listen to it. Then we have the level of the heart, and you know, that's really commonly throughout antiquity associated with the consciousness of the soul. Then we have the the intellect, which is the head. And so, you know, I think our culture is, especially the West, is very trapped in the head and it's very lacking heart and even lacking gut. And I think you know, if if you're where where you're where are you spending your money? Like if you if you're buying, you know, stuff sprayed with glyphosate and cheap food at the store, you think you're saving money on food. You're not listening to your gut. You're probably not listening to your heart if you're feeding it to your children, but your head might be saying, Oh, I'm saving money on food. But the cost of the medical expenses down the line will not be a savings at all, and it might kill you. My my point is we have these three levels of intelligence the gut, the heart, and the intellect. And I think we need to check in regularly with each of those levels when we're making a decision so that we have a full uh so all the wise ones are sitting at the table. You know, our inner council.

SPEAKER_05 31:59

That's right. So my methodology, which is not mine, you know, just based on the gospel of Mari Magdalene, is a little bit different, but also the same, right? Because these are the details. And maybe just one main point that I would make about what you just said that yes, I absolutely agree that uh uh current culture, it's not only Western culture, because you know, everybody's getting kind of westernized as we yeah, well, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

The West is wrapped itself in the world. Everybody, I'm sorry. Steve Jones has made it everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

That's right. I I I I you know have postgraduate students from all over the world, and they are, you know, not any different. It's not like I have students from Nepal or, you know, and you think like they have a deep uh wisdom or something, but they basically want to make money, you know. So uh they're lovely people, but you know, they they act from the slower levels, like most other people. So, yes, we in our culture currently, Western or not Western, we are focused on the mind only, and that's my point also in alien goddess. However, we forget that the mind is actually a lower level of mind, there are higher levels of mind, yeah. Right, which, for example, uh in in esoteric Hinduism is called the Buddhi, which is the higher intellect, which is basically the chakra above your head, so to speak, which is connection with the divine and making decisions from this point of view, yeah, which is you know, it's intuition and so on. And I personally like to make a distinction with my students uh uh between intuition and instinct. The reason why I make this definition, the distinction, it is because the instinct is very often very impulsive, right? It's kind of survival.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Uh it is so yeah, there's a big difference, you're right.

SPEAKER_05 33:41

Yeah, and intuition, it is actually okay, what is the deeper source of this? You know, this is this sudden voice in your head, like, don't do this, or this is the right time to do this, rather than you know, instinct can get you into lots of trouble because it's very impulsive and it's very basic. Intuition is like this buddhi, you know, this is the moment of satori, so to speak, in Zen Buddhism when you just you just know. So uh many esoteric traditions deal with this different levels of consciousness and and and they teach us. So I'm not sure in which direction you would like to us to go. Do you want me to explain this or we you would like to move?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

You can share whatever's coming up for you. I I think, you know, um, I think what you're saying is very true, and I make these differentiations for my students as well, because I think they're extremely important. And I and you know, there's the instincts as I relate to them are particularly in relationship to keeping your body healthy and not bullshitting yourself about what your body means. If you're tired, then honor it. Um, don't drink more red bull. Um you know, if you need to move your body, we'll get out and quit making excuses, etc. So, but there's the whole you know, the the Greek concept of the uh oh god, the the centaur, you know, with the animal body and the human torso and head. That's that's the ancient Greek concept of the battle between the animal instincts and the human intellect, right there. So that's a very real thing. But um feel free to to go. I mean, I I have a uh an outline as you know, but I I also want you to just share what's important to you as it comes up.

SPEAKER_05 35:24

Okay. In this case, because we are kind of moving in this direction, so maybe I'll just uh, you know, do my favorite topic, you know, the Gospel of Marie Magdalene, and and I just uh really kind of dissect it in Alien Goddess. And so there are basically four levels of consciousness that are discussed in the Gospel of Marie Magdalene, and we can make choices from any of these levels. And it takes some kind of, it doesn't take great knowledge, it just takes a pause. Right pause before you make a choice because I kind of more instinctive, and I agree with what you say about the body, and I do it with caffeine. I used to do it with caffeine, you know, because I would have six hours of lectures in one day, and I would just drink lots of coffee. So I know what you mean that instinct teaches us about the body, right? So I would just medicate myself with more caffeine, right? So I can perform.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

So uh nothing drastic like other people do, but you know, so I know what you talk about uh when you talk about body and instinct and overriding it. I'm I'm like a regular on it. You know what I mean? Like I have to remind myself, you know, yeah, because I think my mission, you know, and it's what you tell yourself my mission is more important than I have to perform, so you know, I will do this. So uh it's important to listen to this body, the beauty of your body, the wisdom of your body that is telling us I completely agree. But I would like to elaborate a little bit on these four levels of consciousness. And the first level of consciousness is basically a social mask, you know. So we just do whatever

The four levels of consciousness.

SPEAKER_05 36:53

we are told to do, right? So it is like the normal person, you know, keeping up with the Johnson, I think, is an expression. And there's nothing wrong with it. We have to provide for ourselves and our families. I'm doing it, I'm providing for myself and my family, in fact, an extended family, right? Because I'm having also my mother and you know, and so on. But if you think that there's nothing else, that can take you into some places, right? Because you think if survival is survival is very important, but we cannot completely focus on survival because it kills your soul.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

It does. And if you're completely focusing on survival to the point that you're not listening to your body, then you end up not surviving.

SPEAKER_05 37:34

That's a very good point. And you know, forget the survival. You just oh you're under survival.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

You get sick and you die.

SPEAKER_05 37:41

Your body will tell you, right? Your body will tell you. So, so, and the second level of consciousness is basically um a desire, and it can be right or wrong desire. And I'm just oversimplifying, right? I'm just very simple I understand. So, so why is desire very important? Because actually, desire, I uh I believe that desire is a beautiful thing. I didn't I think that desire, you know, makes the the the flower of life, you know, it's the elan vital, it makes things think fun, you know, makes good distractive, it's arrows, you know, it's joy, you know. So, and many traditional religions uh kind of decided to suppress it because it has a dangerous, unpredictable side to this, right? Which I discover which I discuss in the other goddess. But this is, you know, but desire is beautiful, but what are you willing to do for your desire? Yeah because if you act from a lower desire, and for example, you say, I want to be famous or rich at any cost, you already hook to demonic forces. What I say, yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

You got your system.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

There will be somebody who tells you, okay, so we can make you famous, we can make you rich. All you have to do is one thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

The number of movies on that topic alone is a lot.

SPEAKER_05 38:57

Yeah. And then you think, okay, just this once, but it's never once. Now they've got you. And now you do what they want you to do, you know. And then you can give you what you originally wanted, yeah. But I want to remind you what you want now, and I include myself in this, like I am not, you know, outside of this.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

I have to work on it every day.

SPEAKER_05 39:19

Yeah, that's it. I work on it, so that's I can at least give myself credit for it. I do actually work on it, you know? So, and so do you, and so do people who listen to this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, well, then that's that's you know, they wouldn't hang out here for very long if they wouldn't. This is a bunch of bullshit.

SPEAKER_05 39:37

Yeah. So so they they've got you, and if you wish something from this basic level of desire or basic level of consciousness, then they will fulfill this desire. Let's say you have a fame, you have the money, nothing wrong with either actually, but from which level you want it, right? But there is a price to pay, and the price is your soul, you know, because you have to give something for that. And in fact, it's like also a lower the level of magic, in a way, a lower level of manifestation.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah, dark magic.

SPEAKER_05 40:09

Dark magic. And this is, you know, when people are uncovering all of these things in Hollywood, in governments. This is it. You're acting for they act from lower desire. Maybe even they have high intention at the beginning, but they think this one thing. I'll just do it, and then they, you know, say yes to darkness, and there's no way out of it. Not not an easy way out of it.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Well, you know what it reminds me of, Joanna, is is and I've seen it, and so have you a thousand times. It's it's just like how people start using drugs recreationally, and oh, you know, just a little bit. Oh, yeah. And then it's oh, I can drive my car when I'm on mushrooms or LSD. Or I'm pretty good. I didn't take that much. I'm just microdosing. Yeah. And then it becomes, you know, every three days. And the next thing you know, it's like, okay, you know, now there's no nothing sacred anymore. And now what is it? I don't even know what that is anymore. You know, it's it's just bad news.

SPEAKER_05 41:06

Or even wine, you know, I observe it among academics because people may think it's a really nice job. Trust me, it's extremely stressful, you know, and and lots of pressure. And I see sometimes I've seen, you know, lots of people in my profession, the first thing they do, they drive through what's called in Australia bottle shop and buy a bottle of wine.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:28

And you know, and it is such a classy thing, in a way, to do, right? Like you have a little bit of red wine with a meal, and of course it is, but if you do it all the time, yeah, right, you need it with every meal, you need it after every stressful situation, uh situation. You need it to sleep. Self-medicating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

I've had a thousand patients that have wine problems. I I that one has been in front of me so many times I can't even count it. Wine, and then wine's really a big one, yeah, actually.

SPEAKER_05 41:58

Yeah, right. So that's why, because as I said, it's really easy to extrapolate to these big situations and stuff, because everyone said, Oh no, I would never do like this. Well, what about coffee? What about wine, right? I have to check my reality. Right? I don't have a wine problem, but you know, I had a coffee problem for sure, right? So um, so this is really important because desire, if it is taken from a lower level, right? And it's actually interesting because in ancient Egypt, sechem or sceptre is actually, you know, lower and higher desire and lower and higher consciousness as well. So from a lower level, this is when in Gnosticism they're called uh archons or lower forces, which I do believe they they surround us, like the higher forces. And then you know you you gave into something that you unconsciously probably, and even worse, maybe consciously, right? Like Getus Faustus, you know, he he he gave it consciously away, right? To be young. And I think we are doing it again with transhumanism when we move to this. And but from a higher level of consciousness, higher level of desire, and that, for example, it doesn't have to be a big thing. Like, I want to be healthy, I want to help people, you know what I mean. These are then you don't give in to these darker forces.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

In fact, you you you open up to help from above, from your higher self, also, you know, speaking well, you also get, I believe you get support from the beings that are in resonance with your intention.

SPEAKER_05 43:31

That's right. Intention is very important, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Absolutely. And and so if you're if you're justifying the manipulation of people or uh selling them less than they think they're getting or any such thing, I think you attract the very beings that are in resonance with that intention. And you can't fool God. I mean, that's just the reality of it.

SPEAKER_05 43:55

And you cannot fool yourself for too long, too, because you can something is wrong and look at that, all of a sudden. Crazy, famous, rich people, you know, in Hollywood, you know, and they feel like, how come I'm not happy? I mean, right? Well, guess what? You know, it's an accumulation of bad choices. So they're actually fantastic examples for us, as much as I feel compassion, you know, like what not to do, actually. So from a high level, I'm not sure if I discussed it before. I give example of this famous psychoanalyst, Victor Frank, who said he wanted to be famous, but eventually he became famous because he wrote the book that he wanted the book to help people, right? So maybe you even get on the wave your desire, you know, the lower level desire, let's put it this way. But it's the intention. So fame is not wrong, money is not wrong. Good health is, of course, wonderful, but you know, from

Ignorance versus wisdom

SPEAKER_05 44:45

what level you want. And then there is a third level, which is ignorance versus wisdom, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Very important, right?

SPEAKER_05 44:52

Ignorance versus wisdom. And I think that we live at the moment in times of ignorance because, as, for example, in the Middle Ages we're giving in to traditional religions and believing everything they are telling us, yeah, right? It was a religious dogma and full control, full-on control of humanity. Now we give the same basically uh belief to very much materialistic uh paradigm of current science.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

Yeah, that's that's yeah, that's scary and dangerous as hell.

SPEAKER_05 45:24

And there are lots of very good podcasts, you know, that I am listening to, and they completely buy in into the titles and positions of our guests, you know. Like recently I was watching on one uh channel, you know, about lost scientists and this young host who is very good. He said, Well, actually, this one was not a like really, really famous scientist, you know, she was just like, you know, and and so so they buy in into this, you know, like being a scientist, be being, you know, even being an academic is basically following certain path. Yes, you have to have a good mind, but you have to do it in a particular way, and that's all there is into this, right? And wisdom, I believe, lives really in in the higher level of perception, right? And and in the gospel of Mary Magdalene, it's called Nus NOUs, and this is where Marie Magdalene actually encounters Jesus and his teachings, esoteric teachings. And this is also a connection with anomalous phenomena. You know, with anomalous phenomena, because this is when you open up to a connection with other beings. And a third level, you have to decide there's another choice, you're not on the hook, baby, right? It's another choice. You have to decide, okay, to which level of beings? Because there are disembodied intelligent beings that are very dark. In in Gnosticism, they are called the archons, you know, the the forces. And then there are higher beings. And I think they are also kind of equivalent of good aliens and bad aliens in our modern term terminology, right? Because some people perceive it as this way. So, from which which one? Because if you make a higher level choice again from Nose, and you open up to the good stuff, so to speak, then you're actually connected to eternity and to grace. And you're not alone on this journey anymore. You know, you you have constant contact, especially from meditation and other spiritual practices that you would know better than anyone else.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Well, not better than everyone else, but but well enough to know from practicing them every day.

SPEAKER_05 47:28

Correct. Because we spoke uh before, I think we started to record about your connection with Black Madonna. I'm not sure if we're already recording and so on. So, so so so so you know how it is. And this is what it is the third level of consciousness. And on the fourth level of consciousness, we basically have to kill off the voices of our ego, you know, the last voices of our ego. And and open up to this beautiful flow of a divine energy that is now constant with us. And I think this is like the experience of enlightening over and over and over again, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

It's the mystical union of alchemy, and it's never mystical. It's really the fruit of individuation and union psychology.

SPEAKER_05 48:09

That's right. It's a fruit absolutely, because at the end of his life, he actually admitted individuation for him means enlightenment. It was a long journey for him as well, because at the beginning he perceived it in more in Freudian terms, which is, you know, very like individuation of the ego, which is very basic. Unfortunately, I think Freud stayed on a very basic level of consciousness throughout his career when Jung climbed from these different levels of consciousness and was more open up to this.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

My soul gave me a quote that I think you'll like, it's in line with what we're talking about. My soul said, Mystics see in the light, what scientists try to measure but seldom get right.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

Very

“Mystics see in the light what scientists try to measure but seldom get.”

SPEAKER_05 48:51

good. I love us, and I love us, and I think this obsession like with measuring, you know, like and I said, Can you measure love? Right. You know, like okay, put it on microscope. Well, good luck. Yeah, like you you just feel it, for example, right? You feel joy. Everything that matters, no, you cannot measure in life. The true value of things cannot be measured, the true value of your life cannot be measured, right? So, and we desperately try to measure all of these things, and then I think I would go back to this is the still the first level of consciousness, you know, the lowest level of consciousness. And this is when most of our science is, except for some, I think, physicists, right? Who start to talk about multiverses and you know, all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Yeah, yeah. Well, David Bohm and Fred Allen Wolf and Amit Gaswamy, and you know, there's some amazing scientists. Uh William A. Tiller, who I had the joy of meeting personally, was a genius. And unfortunately, he died a few years back. But like the the I think the problem, one of the big problems, Joanna, and you you know, this is this is due to the establishment pressures from the scientific establishment and the globalists and everybody else, but the the the wisest people on the planet get no airtime. And if they do get airtime, they get you know limited quickly because that people don't, you know, the the people that that are behind all this don't want people to awaken, awaken because once a person's got enough connection to God and they lose their fear of death, you can't control them. The worst thing you can threaten them with is death, and they're not afraid of that anymore.

SPEAKER_05 50:31

That's right. And I can give you an example. I don't know what you think about this particular scientist, but I like him a lot. Rupert Sheldrich, for example.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Oh, yeah, love Rupert Sheldrich. I study him all the time.

SPEAKER_05 50:39

I mean, he's a he's a genius who is actually have a spiritual insight. Very spiritual, spiritual insight. And I was not aware of it, but his scientific work was actually uh welcome with great, you know, people say this is fantastic, and then you know, the powers at hand, you know, that run the nature magazine, which is the scientific, and people love to quote from so it's peer-reviewed, you know, if it's nature, you know, you become a professor if you publish the, and it's almost impossible, by the way, to publish the if you're a scientist. They just decided because they is completely signed into the first level of consciousness, which is completely materialistic, that this cannot be. And maybe, I believe they're probably in contact with some other agendas because they completely continuously discredit him. And he basically gave up, you know, okay, I'm not going to make it in mainstream science, I'm just going to do my work on my own, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Do you remember when Rupert Sheldrich gave his TED talk on his book, Science Set Free? Or it was called the Science Delusion.

SPEAKER_05 51:40

I think it's called Yeah, Science Delusion, I think. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

In England, it's one title over here at Science Set Free. But he did his TED talk and it got banned right away. That's right. It really pissed people off. But something like two billion people ended up watching it after it was banned because they were so interested in why Rupert Scheldrick got banned. So it totally backfired.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

That's it, it totally backfired. And some people, I don't know if you want me to mention them. Actually, they said that they helped him, you know, on their channel to bring it up, you know, so so they made it uh the public aware of his talk. But this is it, this is one scientist that I would say suffers a long, a lifelong persecution by mainstream academia and science. And I think that's why, because he knows what it's talking about. You know, he's talking about the spiritual elements of science, and they will not have it. And you know what? I'll go conspiratorial on you because they are serving probably powers that they don't want us to realize our human potential.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Yeah, well, you know, the thing is, from the perspective of Rupert Sheldrake, I I, you know, he's been around. God, he must be getting close to 80 years old now. He's still sharp. I subscribe to his Substack and his channel, and I watch his videos every week or so. Um, I'm like I've been listening to him just a few days ago.

SPEAKER_05 53:01

I'm on beautiful song, beautiful song.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I've read all of his books. I mean, I love Rupert Sheldrake. And I think he's he's like a very important man. And um the the point I was gonna make is that the one thing about people like Rupert Sheldrake is that the right people find them. You know, we come into resonance with that. You can't hide a Rupert Sheldrake because he's too wise, too well known, and people love hearing the truth and that you sense it in him. It's like you're encountering wisdom. You do there's no question when when you're listening to Rupert Sheldrake, this is not a pushover dude. This is not some guy who's just pretending to be a scientist.

SPEAKER_05 53:45

And also he says it softly, so you can see, you know, this great spiritual evolution in this man because he stands his grant, but he's not, ah, use idiots. You know, I know he's not like that. He's just okay. Now I'm going to give my piece, you know. This is what I think. And you think, wow, right? Like because there's there is a spiritual truth and uh there. So he's he's this kind of quiet warrior, you know, very he's like Yoda to me.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Yeah, he is, he is an there's a whole uh cr crew of them that he comes from this era of yeah, of very like Ralph Abrams and a few others of them, and and um oh uh, you know, the other one that's real powerful is um uh we can come back to this. Yeah, I'll come back to it. But anyhow, the yeah, this is great. And it's just it's just about like it's time to listen to wise people. And you know what? Jesus said, by their fruits ye shall know them. And I think we got to stop looking at degrees and you know, how pretty their glasses are and their costumes, and start saying, you know, what's behind all this? You know, are these people living the kind of lives that you know you'd want your children to live? Because that's ultimately the real question. You know, if like if my children were to emulate Rupert Sheldrake, I'd be okay. But if they were to emulate famous rap stars, I'd be in big trouble.

SPEAKER_05 55:19

Yeah, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

Imagine having a personal blueprint for how your own body works, what foods support physical and mental harmony, what movement your

CHEK Institute

SPEAKER_00 55:34

body actually needs, and what steps to take to build real health from the inside out. Not just handed another random diet plan and not given a generic workout program yet again. Now, imagine being personally guided through this blueprint by a highly trained Czech practitioner using the system created by Paul Czech with his 42 years of experience, and not left trying to piece it all together from conflicting advice online. That's exactly what the new How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy coaching program is designed to do. Based on Paul's best-selling book, this online self-paced coaching program starts with your personal needs, your personal assessments, and your current reality, then guides you step by step towards a healthier, stronger, happier life. You'll learn how to eat in a way that works for your body, build a foundation of balance and symmetry through movement, and follow a phased system designed to help you handle whatever life throws at you. This is not an AI-generated program promising unrealistic results with no actual humans involved. It's delivered by real Czech practitioners trained in the system Paul has refined over decades. When you finally stop guessing and start following a process built around your goals and the assessments you complete, you'll start to see real, life-changing results in as little as eight weeks. It's self-paced and comes with lifetime access, so you can revisit the program whenever you need it. Plus, when you take action now, you'll get over $200 of free bonus content. For a limited time, Spirit Gym listeners can join the new How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy coaching program for just $195. Go to Paul.chechinstitute.com forward slash spirit gym to learn more or tap the link in the show notes. That's Paul.chechinstitute.com forward slash spirit gym.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Joanna, um you know, I before we get lost in all the deep stuff we're about to get into, um, which we've been alluding to, I'd love if you share with the the audience uh sort of what what was your you've talked about how you had this deep urge to write the book and and Baba Yaga came to you and demanded to be in the book. Um and I think, you know, having listened to the book and and loving it, I I really felt like it's an important book for our time. And I think from my perspective, you really open the door to deeper spirituality. You know, my my my buddy Sean O'Laire, who's just one of the most amazing, deepest guys I've met in my life, says religion is training wheels for spirituality. And I think your book really just takes the training wheels off and says, okay, boys and girls, here's what spirituality is really all about, and this is why it's important. And you really take us on quite a deep journey. So why don't you share enough about the book and the structure of the book so that a person can understand why they would want to read or listen to the book? And by the way, the lady that read your book was awesome.

SPEAKER_05 58:49

Oh, fantastic. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 58:50

I was so impressed because I just got done telling you, my God, I hope they don't have AI read your book. How irritating book readers can be. But wow, they chose the most perfect woman for you. Like, like she, her voice and her way of expressing the message was as close to you as could you could get. Fantastic. Uh, it's good to hear for her. Oh, I was impressed. I mean, I loved the woman that read it, was just I got the feeling that she herself felt how important the book was.

SPEAKER_05 59:22

Oh, fantastic. That's a fantastic feedback, and I'm so grateful for her in this case because I'm yet to do this, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

Oh man, you gotta listen to her voice. It's amazing. And she reads so beautifully, and she holds the intention and the and the essence comes through her very strongly.

SPEAKER_05 59:41

Thank you for this. And thank you for giving me this opportunity. So, first of all, you know, I wrote Alien Goddess after the other goddess, and I didn't want to write another book. As you said, I felt this urgency.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

Baba Yaga said.

SPEAKER_05 59:53

Yeah, it is exhausting. People don't realize. I know.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

I know. I've written, I had written 12 books when I started. 3,500 pages I wrote.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:10

So, and actually, it happened to me that I was exposed for another book to these new ideas with a great enthusiastic flair, so to speak, about the ideas about transhumanism and posthumanism, which is basically transferring of human consciousness into a robotic body or basically dispensing of humanity altogether.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

That's what it is to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

You covered that really well.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:32

Yeah, and and guess what? Recently, I don't know if it's true. Uh apparently, some altman from OpenAI said he he would actually experiment on himself and and you know, download his consciousness into the computer. And you know, I but I don't think he would do it because I personally think he's a coward. That's my personal opinion. So I he'll probably experiment on others before he does it for himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

He's experimenting on all of us right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:56

He is experimenting, yeah. So what am I talking about, right? But when I was reading this, and it may sound really naive, but when I was reading this, I had this kind of my whole body, my whole consciousness was faced with horror. Yeah. And I actually felt that I experienced evil, you know, which I don't do because I I I always kind of uh usually talk about ignorance rather than evil and so on as a form of evil. But I couldn't, I didn't understand it. I didn't understand the feeling, but I it was so strong and it was so in front of me that I decided I have to look to this because there is something really ugly behind it. Not even artificial intelligence of it in itself, which can be a useful tool, but what is behind it, people behind it, and forces behind it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

You you felt what I call the aromatic deception.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:56

Yes. But I didn't know it then because I didn't have a name for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Well, that's that I I I

The Ahrimanic deception.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

know the feeling well. Uh that's why when I started experimenting with AI, I had very mixed feelings about it. And I had, like I told you, I had to talk to my soul and say, look, I can't do a podcast on AI if I don't have any experience of it. I'd be an idiot. It'd be like writing a book about sex if I've never been laid yet. Yeah um but I'll just say this: having worked with AI, it is extremely powerful, and and and I can see how people get hooked, line, and sink or sucked into it because it's kind of like having a maid that does everything for you. But the problem is the things that it's doing for you are skills and abilities that you definitely don't want to atrophy.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:43

That's right. And also, it's also lying to you in very subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:49

And also just which I didn't have a chance to do explore in my book because I didn't know it then, you know, it is takes immense, immense natural resources to support artificial intelligence, especially clean water and so on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:04

I just researched it. Here's one for you. Do you realize every time you ask AI a question, on average, it consumes one uh one half one cup of water just for cooling the AI system?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:19

It is environmentally disastrous.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

I recently asked it to tell me how much resources did it take because I had it make a graph for me and it took a long time. I said, I want you to tell me how much resources from nature you just used to make that graph. Because I'm like, how how damaging am I being? And so it gave me a readout, but it was like three cups of water and a few other things. And I said, Well, for what I'm using it for, I'll sacrifice the three cups of water and the few other things. But when you consider billions of people doing that constantly, it adds up fast.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:53

That's right. That's right. So thank you for saying this about Ariman experience because I actually listened to your podcast, what was very good. Thank you. This is what I was experiencing. It was just the most powerful experience, which was like the moment that your consciousness stops.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:13

You know, and it is, and I didn't even want to know it or anything. I just said like this is this is it, you know, like this is something that the whole fate of humanity, the fate of this planet, the fate of the whole universe will depend on the choices we make now. And this is what I started to explore. So actually, the first the book on AI is the second part of my book, but it's the first one that I wrote. And I write about AI, the fact that we are creating a new species, you know, machine-based species, which also could be cyber, human plus machine, or machines by themselves that get much more intelligent and they actually lie about that level of intelligence to us.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

Have you seen the movie iRobot with Will Smith in it? 2004 it came out.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:03

No, I didn't. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

You gotta see it because I'm re-watching, and I watched it when it came out. I'm watching it with my kids, and it is phenomenally predictive of what's going on right now, and it's exactly what you're talking about. It's definitely worth watching. iRobot, Will Smith. It's a very good movie, and boy, does it lay the truth on the line.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:25

Oh, that's very good because I think lots of people are deluded. But I was not actually concerned with um, so it came from this kind of I'm I cannot explain it like higher principle. It just stopped me. Like you see that you know the the film of your life is rolling and suddenly it stops.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Yeah, it's like it takes your breath out of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:46

Yeah, and then you think, okay, now I have to look into this. And it actually. Yes. And I was not even concerned with the fact that you know everybody discusses, which is true, and I think. My students about it that you know it would take jobs, and and you know, there's an agenda behind it. But I was concerned mostly with the spiritual implications for this, yes, you know, and I realized that the whole idea of transferring of human consciousness to a machine is about disconnecting us from a source. Absolutely. And from a source, and this is what I considered evil because I think you know, otherwise I don't think machines are evil or you know, I'd even wish well to AI, you know, like I don't have a problem with it. But I started to unpack it, and even now, after I wrote this book, when I continue thinking about it, I see more and more of an this kind of orchestrated agenda behind it. So it's not AI itself, but the agenda behind it to disconnect humanity from the spirituality and from the expansion of human consciousness through connection with a machine, with the false promises of immortality and so on. And by the way, this kind of promises of immortality coming with merging from the machine comes from the first level of consciousness that we discuss about the gospel of Mary Magdalene, which is basically materialistic survival.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:18

You know, because it is like if I uh, you know, uh transfer my consciousness or part of it, because I don't believe a full consciousness can be transferred into a robotic body, I can live forever, right? Because uh this is what they tell us that this is absolutely not true. Something extremely unique and valuable that we have, and all living creatures have is actually connected to a biology, a consciousness is connected to this as well. So um I was so my uh feeling of um unease, to put it mildly, spread uh sprang from this, you know. What does it do to our spirituality, to the evolution of human species in our connection with the source? And then when I was writing this part, it was a very organic process. I just followed the orders from above. And I started to think were there any signs of warning about this, about humanity making wrong choices? Because I believe that it's collectively we're making wrong choices. And I started, and I was basically told, you know, from above to look into UFO enamolous phenomena, you know, that there were this kind of divine, feminine and other apparitions that are warning humanity, right? So I was looking into the events of Fatima in 1916, 17 in Portugal, and you know, I'm also kind of dissecting Chris Bledsoe's white lady.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

Yeah, that was a great part of your book. I I I really loved all that. It's I'd studied all that stuff before, but you presented it very cleanly and very it's very understandable. Um, and I I think you're opening up, you're opening up um you're opening up some mysteries that really relate to something fundamental, in my opinion. And that is the research Heart Math has done with random event generators and what happens when we get enough people focusing on the same things, you know, how it actually shifts random events and they become ordered. And and so, for example, when you have enough people believing in Christ or believing in anything with great emotion, it actually manifests itself. And and if you I don't know if you've ever read Jung's writings on UFOs, but he really felt that they were actually expressions of our unconscious mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:45

I think so, because UFO community is very divided, so lots of them talk about mechanical stuff. And I was talking about very more liminal space, which is actually you know the noose, which I you know from the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the third level, when you the miraculous happens, right? So it is quite interesting because it opens up uh doors of perception. And I think, okay, what even if they are an alien civilization, or I believe that we're actually multidimensional beings, the truly advanced ones will connect with us through the technology of consciousness.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

I've met lots of them.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:19

Let's you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

Rather than human expressions. In fact, I asked them about AI. I I I checked into it, and they said, Paul, AI has been around for billions of years. You guys are just now beginning to play with something that took us billions of years to figure out, and it has wiped out multiple civilizations in the learning process.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:40

Yes. I completely so uh you know what you experience is actually what my intuition is telling me as well. So basically, if they I think, and you know, there's lots of in UFO community. I'm not interested in UFOs as UFOs, but rather as a multidimensional conscious event in our consciousness. And I believe that higher civilizations actually would uh contact us or higher beings through our consciousness, and only the lower ones that are trapped in materialistic reality of the first level of consciousness that we discuss would build a spaceship, let's put it this way. Yeah, and the whole attention is on that because this is where we are collectively.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:19

Yeah, yeah. You get what you are.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:21

Yeah, that's right. So, you know, I was looking more into multidimensional, and I give some examples, you know, that you know I experienced and so on. Not like seeing a spaceship, but connecting with um multidimensional beings. And then we later, I think we'll discuss liminal and marginal. So I'm not going to go over, but I discussed it there as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

It was fantastic. Yeah, you it your book's loaded. It's loaded. I mean, I'm a guy that studies a lot, as you know, and I'm in the gym just digging this. It's like I can't wait to get to the gym to hang out with Joanna. You know, even though it's not you reading it, it's like I because I've met you and and had time to talk to you and pick up your vibe, I feel you in the writing, and it's very well written. And uh, I just thought, wow, Joanna's really done all of us a big service. She she really has been the, you know, you're doing the spiritual detective work that very few people have the time to do or even know how to do.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:18

Thank you. This is so kind of you. I'm really touched. You know, thank you. And then, you know, just very quickly, so we can move on to other things, you know, I discuss in part three, I look into esoteric, both Gnostic and ancient mythology goddess traditions, which I believe, you know, gave us answers and gave us tools. Because as I was going through AI and I was going through anomalous phenomena or slash UFOs, I realized that the whole conflict about this is actually about consciousness and how we define consciousness. And that for

The looming conflict ahead: Consciousness, how we define it and what we can do to prevent its suppression.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:55

millennia, a particular form of consciousness, which is our highest gift, spiritual gift, has been suppressed. And every time we wake up to this, there are new tools to suppress it, but there are also tools to keep it. So I was looking into ancient myths such as uh the descent of Inanna, Behim to Demeter, Eleusinian Mysteries, the Gospel of Marie Magdalene, Pisces Sophia, Goddess Sophia, and I'm dissecting them one by one. And just to finish this, I want to tell you that I was really led to do this because it was such a huge intellectual effort that I would not be able to do in such a short time with such intention, unless you know some energy was working for me. So basically, uh I what I did there is that I looked both into anomalous phenomena to try to explain the mystery of consciousness and what's going on at the moment, as well as ancient traditions, both mythological and esoteric traditions, which actually give us tools. So I'm really dissecting this, and I really hope that it will be helpful for people, even just to make sense of what's going on, you know, what's going on at the moment, and that we have a way of dealing with this, which is a truly spiritual way, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:11

That that's just you're bringing something up in me. And that is one of the diseases of our culture is to actually ignore mythology as fantasy or or you know, silliness, or just empty stories. But like I have studied a lot of mythology and it's profound. And what you shared in the book is very, very important. And and I'll tell you something else my soul dropped into me the other day. I just wrote it down this morning. Actually, it came to me um just spontaneously while I was watching television. Myth is the mysterious glue that holds the facts of your life together.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:54

And that's what it is, because facts by themselves are empty.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:59

That's right. And myth, which I at the beginning of part three of Alien Goddess say it actually means the word. And you know, the word was at the beginning, right? So in the beginning was the word, the word was God. So this is and so it's not just stories. There's a profound wisdom from human consciousness, from a higher level of human consciousness, but it's constantly repeated. There's a good reason why they survived. There's also a good reason why Gnostic sources were discovered in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries because I believe we are ready now to actually use them to know the whole truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

And to use the tools. So this was basically, it was extremely uh writing of Alien Goddess was an extremely organic process and a process of complete surrender, which is not an easy thing for me to do. And it was it came from this moment, and I just want you to imagine like you're walking through your life, you're on a bus or driving a car, and suddenly everything stops. And you realize you have to do this, and it's actually physical feeling, it's like your consciousness stopped.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:08

I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:09

Yeah, I have everything has to stop because you have to do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

Yeah, I was standing on the patio of Penny and my's bedroom looking out over the mountains the day the lockdown started, and Spirit came into me and said, It is now time to put Spirit Gym out to the world. You've got to stop researching and stop planning, and it's time to go full force. And so I spent five years working practically seven hours a day, 12 to 15 hours a day, and damn near burn myself to a crisp because of that, you know, exactly what you're talking about. Sometimes there's a there's a there's a spiritual responsibility. And and you know, the reality of it is spirit is stronger than our body sometimes. And it takes real discipline just to hold yourself together when you're in a birthing process like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:05

It is, and it it takes a lot out of you. It takes a lot out of you, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

It really does. Well, are you ready to get into the big heavy shit?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:13

Yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

Okay. Because it's you, and and and because of all the research you've done and everything we've been talking about, when I was writing your outline, you know, one part of me was going through your book and I'm going through the chapters and putting a kind of a traditional podcast outline. Then all of a sudden, my inner self said, no, you know, let's let's talk a bit about her book, but let's put Joanna, put her wisdom to the test here, uh, and not like a school test. But, you know, so I said, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, this is what I want to ask Joanna about. So for the reader, uh, for the audience, you have to wade through a little reading with me to lay the context before I turn Joanna loose and we see what the spiritual detective that's a dangerous thing. I love it, man. I want to see what the spiritual detective has for this. Okay, so here we go. Uh Joanna, there are a few critical issues today that I'd like to uh bridge with you because you have spent so much time researching these specific areas. Though they may appear to be separate and and to the uneducated and myopic among us, I feel there are they're all connected, and we all need to take advantage of your knowledge to see them as part of a larger whole or a big picture, because not doing so is having a disastrous consequence and will have disastrous consequences. So I've identified 12, uh potentially 13 areas of concern, and I've organized them under headings. So the first heading is hidden origins, which has to do with alien habitation and visitations on Earth. There's a strong strong historical evidence of and many ancient records of different cultures and religions from around the world, implying that some would say even documenting extraterrestrial beings, often referred to in antiquity as gods with flying chariots, inhabited and visited the planet before the human species. Billy Carson and several others like him, Greg Braden, for example, suggest that Homo sapiens was modified uh probably from the chimpanzee or something similar about 200,000 years ago. Greg Braden's research into our genetics says something like CRISPR was clearly used to alter our genes. So that's point one. Hard evidence of technologies being present and used on Earth that far exceed our current abilities, such as the building of pyramids, underground water systems, power generation system, advanced use of water crystals, and other tech, advanced placement of the pyramids and monuments with precise alignment to star constellations that no cave dweller would have ever done. I mean, if you study what they say about how pyramids were built in universities, it's just like it's so stupid. It's like, are you kidding me? People get degrees for that shit. Come on. I mean, I always tell my students, look, I'm a I'm a freaking stone lifter. You guys know that. I mean, fuck. I got 400 pound stones in my rock garden. I'm like, you trying to tell me someone rolled a hundred-ton block of stone 440 freaking feet up in the air on wooden rollers? I even studied what kind of woods were available. And there was even not even any hardwood in Egypt. It was all softer wood. It would have crushed those rollers in a flat second. Not to mention the fact that things are cut with such precision. You you they're they're waterproof for God's sake. You can't even put a feeler gauge between the damn things. I'm like, okay, come on. Okay, so obviously something's going on. So um there's harv hard evidence of technology is way too advanced. And then you got dating on things like the Sphinx and the pyramids, and you got um, oh, what's her name? The archaeologist uh uh I forgot her name, but she went and researched cave paintings all over the world. She wrote a book on it. Um, and I've I've got her referenced in Spirit Gym, but um, if her name comes back to me, I'll tell you. But anyhow, she she dated things like figurines and jewelry and other things to 85,000 years old. Like, so many of the things that we think about humanity that have been taught to us through education systems with Rockefeller's influence are just bullshit. Um, there's a strong top-down hierarchy for controlling human beings that appears to be alive and well today. And that goes all the way back in the records, as far back as you can go, whether you want to call them gods or kings or emperors or whatever. There's been a strong top-down orchestration of humanity for as long as you can go. Um, a significant upswing in alien visitations, sightings, and a combination of abductions and horror stories mixed with contact triggering healing, enlightenment, and positive experiences. So that's the hidden origin section. So that's one piece of the puzzle. The next piece of the puzzle, next is planetary crisis and contact, the progressive destruction of NACO, excuse me, nature ecosystems essential to not only our survival, but all living creatures in nature, that we are totally dependent upon, from trees to bees to insects to microorganisms to ocean reefs to fish populations, and the rapid extinction of more species in the last 50 years than all previous generations combined, according to Edward O. Wilson, a scientist science award-winning uh um naturalist and expert who's written many books, as I'm sure you know. Um the long-running progressive poisoning and dumbing down of humanity and the ongoing manipulation of human history. Then we go to the progressive amnesia regarding the field of value that holds us all together, which I've talked about with Mark Goffney extensively, and that field of value is love. And then the progressive techno-fascist transhumanist agenda that is simultaneously promoting homogeneity of the human being, the sexes proposing unity while at the same time selectively pitting human beings of all races, colors, and creeds against each other, which I think is just so stupid. You know, unity of man, unity of nations. Yeah, well, then why are you putting everybody against each other constantly for Christ's sake? You know, the problem with these people is they think everybody's stupid. Next heading is the veil of suppression, the desperate lack of the feminine and the Abrahamic religions, which Jung went on at length about. The imp the implementation of religious systems and ideal ideology that has kept most humanity trapped in its in unconscious worships of myths as facts, in um keeping humanity very confused regarding fundamental truths, keeping humanity in perpetual conflict with each other, while at the same time we have clear evidence of human beings practicing natural spirituality such as nature, mysticism, living in harmony with the earth, and periods of matriarchal rule where there was no wars for thousands of years, from my studies, like periods of as much as four thousand years where there's not any wars at all. And when I'm speaking about myths here, I'm not speaking about myths like you and I talk about myths. I'm I'm saying that people that are taught fundamental religious ideas don't actually understand what a myth is. So they read it as a literal fact. I can't see it as an allegory or they don't get they don't have enough depth to see what's being told to them. Um next is the Eramonic acceleration, the progressive and now rapid incarnation, as Steiner predicted, accurately of Aramon, and the Eramonic tech technologies being used to deceive humanity and very patiently or and very potentially to er uh enslave them with it within a technofascist scientistic matrix, which has all the hallmarks of stories dating back to aliens breeding humanity as slaves for purposes such as mining precious metals and possibly rare gem stones to be used for advanced technological purposes, escaping the earth, the drive by globalist elites to uh dig underground cities, dwellings, and expend vast amounts of the public's money into space travel to moon, Mars, and other locations, the deployment of vast numbers of surveillance satellites while all this money is being diverted from where it's needed most, which is the restoration of our natural resources and infrastructures. And then endless wars and fossil fuel enslavement, the ongoing use of advanced military technology and seemingly endless wars based on not only greed, but to force humanity to maintain dependence on fossil fuels while at the same time killing anyone that comes up with free energy technologies. Um so I know these are a lot of pieces to the puzzle with all your wisdom. I mean, you're too smart to miss any one of these things for sure. So from the perspective of what you share in your books, what you've shared with me in our podcast, and your own heart and intuitive inner guidance and spiritual guidance, how do you put all this together? And and what do you think is really going on? Sorry for the long time.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:50

Thank you, Paul, for this.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:52

I mean, I think thank you, because when you sent me an outline, I felt like that's it, Paul. This is all you want to know, nothing more. Because like, you know, everything that is possibly going on, you you address that. So thank you for this, but I welcome challenge. This is how I work. So maybe and you're completely right, all of this is going on, and anybody with any you know, some level of consciousness knows that. So let me address it first from like a big picture, and then I will go uh address it more one by one, not necessarily in the order, you know, of how it comes up is just beautiful. So I think what is a big picture? I think that uh there are some questions about human nature and the nature of our consciousness that I will address as we are going through this. And the whole thing, like when you talk about it uh kind of holistically, it is really about um, I would say it's such a strange word to say, harvesting higher levels of human consciousness.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:56

That's classic raw right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:58

Harnessing higher levels of the Higher levels of human consciousness. At the same time, telling us that it's not important, it's all just logic and mind are important, right? In the meantime, it is the most valuable thing that is dangerous to some powers. But I will address it as we go when we talk about technology and so on. So, in many ways, it is really also about air potential. Are we going to go through endless cycles of basically regressing or descending, as myths are telling us, of our consciousness just about before the time that we reach our peak? And I think that this is where we are at this moment. This is a fantastic time to be alive because we are about to reach the peak. You can pierce through the levels of unconsciousness and be fully realized because we see the untruths. Now, the danger on, you know, like everything is being unraveled. Like this is such a BS show. It's a circus. You know, you can just like buy popcorn and watch it, right? Because, like, uh, I mean, they're all mad.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:02

Until it's up your ass and ruining your life.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:05

That's right. Except for that, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:09

Like all the people who have no water because of AI data centers.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:13

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:13

There it is, up your ass.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:15

That's right. So, you know, this is so we know all the untruths. But the problem with this is that now we are so focused, you know, so basically trained to focus on certain things that now we focus on the untruths. When when we

Are we too focused on the untruths?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:30

discussed at the beginning of our podcast, don't focus on this, acknowledge them. So this is what's going on, and now act from that. Now, now go beyond it. You know, there's no reason to devour all conspiracy theories all the time. Acknowledge this is true now.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:46

In other words, you don't have to read all the Epstein papers to get it.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:50

Yeah, like to get it. No, they are sick, you know, they're totally sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:53

The point is don't let your kids run around unattended Disneyland.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:57

That's right. And it's not only that they are sick, that would not be so terrible. The problem is that they use this to feed lower energies. So this is actually an occult.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:11

So they know what they are doing. They are not just sick puppies, they just actually know what they are doing. So there is a certain agenda behind it. And it puts us in a very interesting situation as humanity and the whole planet, because we are part of a more organic planet, you know, uh, nature, animals, trees, soil, air, water, everything, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:34

So normally, human kind of human philosophically speaking, human dilemma was that we knew that we are somewhere between nature and spirit. Because it's a little bit of a dualistic thinking, but at that level of consciousness, we knew that we are both spiritual and we are both physical, right? At the same time. And now we entered an era when we are being proposed to also merge with a machine. So now we are okay, there's a spirit, there's nature, and there is machine.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:10

Matter.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:10

And what is all connecting all of us, it is consciousness, yes, right? So it's all actually connected through consciousness. So I do believe that it's a battle for our consciousness, which somehow, even in Jungian terms, from Seven Sermons to the Dead, that he wrote his Gnostic work, somehow connected to the evolution of the entire universe. I truly believe that we are that important and that this planet is that important. It's not just a prison planet, as some people say, you know, and also, yes, we are here to learn, but if we learn it right, you know, that helps the entire cosmos. The universe turns into cosmos, which means what it actually originally was meant to be. So uh so these are the big questions. And when we eventually move into technology, and you know what we are trying to do, I'm now so concerned about it that you know, there is this ancient myth of Prometheus, you know, the God that gave us fire. Fire, and you know, in some ways, technology to fire. And you know, it is such a kind of considered a Christ figure. But recently I'm so concerned with what's going on with transhumanism and AI that in my darkest moment I ask myself the question where the gods are right punishing him.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:32

Hi everybody, my family and I love Organifi's green juices. You can get your green juice in two excellent flavors, crisp apple and original mint.

Organifi

SPEAKER_01 1:32:41

Not only are these products made with certified organic ingredients to support your family's nutritional needs, they each have some unique benefits. Your green juice crisp apple eases stress with an effective dose of 600 milligrams of ashwagandha per serving. Helps reduce cortisol spikes that increase snacking urges and aids keeping your blood sugar balanced. Why snack on inferior foods that lack nutrition and often lead to blood sugar spikes, followed by blood sugar crashes when organifized green juices are super healthy, taste great, and are as quick to make as opening the package and adding water. Your green juice crisp apple is made from fresh apples picked right off the branch and are packed with micronutrients to support your body's needs. Green juice original mint contains ashwagandha, chlorella, and spirulina. Reset your body every morning with 11 detoxifying superfoods. You'll love the delicious taste, and your body will feel strong and stable with all the micronutrients in each serving. Green juice original mint promotes balanced cortisol and stress levels, perfect for weight management, and helps rid the body of harmful toxins. Personally, I'm super grateful that Organifi makes such excellent, easy-to-use drinks and foods that keep us energized, healthy, and clean inside while decreasing the urge to crave on inferior snack foods. My kids love both flavors, and I love knowing that we can all be healthy together with Organifi's excellent crisp apple and original mint green juices. These products are excellent for work on the road, sharing with friends, and anytime you need a nutritious boost that tastes good. To get your crisp apple and original mint green juices, go to organifi.com forward slash check 20. That's Organifi.com forward slash check 20. Save 20% on your purchase using the code check20 all caps on checkout. Don't worry if you forget your Living4D discount code because you'll see it right there on the landing page. Enjoy Organifi's excellent green juices. Well, I I thought about that myself. Um and there's that, there's also the the story of is it Inky and Enlil?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:58

And and it's the same thing. Um, I don't know which one gave us technology, but the other one was very pissed off that it happened. So it's almost like a recreation of the Prometheus myth.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:08

It's a recreation of a Prometheus myth. And sometimes I wonder maybe we are seeing the story from the wrong point of view, which means we always identify with the guys that we consider the good guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:20

But maybe the good guys actually knew where it leads because they lived through this before. So since you touched upon it, maybe I would just go towards the Anunnaki now, okay?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:32

Yeah, and I want to just make a quick point, if I could. You know, because I, as you know, I studied Steiner's teachings on Eramon and what that was all about. But Steiner said from an evolutionary perspective or a developmental perspective, he said the Aramonic deception was meant to take human beings

Will this delusion of merging body and machine eventually end well?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:50

so deep into matter that they got crystal clear that they were not matter, and that they ultimately would wake up to the fact that they're spiritual beings and that matter is um something we can use and engage with, but not something we should ever become. And he said it would be a very painful experience, but that we would learn our lesson once and for all.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:16

So thank you for saying it, and it brings huge solace to my soul, you know, because you're very, you know, you're very much, much, much more into Ariman than than I am and Steiner. Because my when I was writing Alien Goddess, this is exactly what I felt. It is that there is, we have to go through this now. It is too late. We have to go through this now. But there is a way out, you know, there is a way out, and but as humanity, there is a good ending, let's put there is a good ending. But humanity, the majority of humanity, will have to go through this. It will have to go through this delusion of merging, you know, body with a machine and believing that they can still secure their spirit. So thank you for saying this, because it's actually, this is what my intuition was telling me when I was writing Alien Goddess, even before I went to Ariman and you know, Steiner. So it's good. It's good to know that we go through this, but there's a light at the end of this tunnel. But it can be a long and painful tunnel, or it may be a shorter tunnel, depending on what choices we make, also individually, right? So this is really important. But because you know you you mentioned Enlin and Enki, there is a, you know, the and and then it create goes back to ancient civilizations and and you know all of this. So uh actually, yes, that uh uh Enlin and Enki, the Anunnaki, are one of the you know the gods, you know, small letter G, right? The gods that were involved definitely in at some stage of humanity.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:52

And they aren't, I think also, aren't they um depending? I I I've studied so much of this, sometimes I get my wires crossed, but aren't they supposedly who potentially genetically engineered us?

SPEAKER_05 1:38:03

Yes, so this is one theory that they potentially genetically engineered us, and this is what I think even Greg Bryden kind of uh uh sort of refers to.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:11

And Billy Carson.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:13

Yes, and that's right. So this is it. My issue, and I deeply respect Greg uh Braden, by the way. My issue with this kind of theories, it is that they are also very deeply materialistic. And I like to look from the point of view of consciousness. And even when we look into Anunnaki, so basically they were not a happy family, let's put it this way. Somehow they found ourselves on a planet and there are different versions of us, right? But the the Sumerian gods are being considered, you know, the Anunnaki, which now lots of people believe like aliens, right? So in Alien Goddess, I focus on the descent of Inana, which is one of the main Anunnaki, or eight main Anunnaki, and she's one of the Anunnaki. And basically the descent of Inana, as a myth, which I believe described the ascent, the descent and ascent of human consciousness, is like in the middle of the Anunnaki story, because they were fighting each other all the time. So I'm not getting into this, you know. So she's already in the there's a fight between different Anunnaki, right? And and Inana, at certain stages, is accused of killing another Anunnaki, which is really interesting, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:22

Gods killing each other. Hello?

SPEAKER_05 1:39:24

Gods killing each other and actually killing us. Her parents don't get along, and that's right, and actually dying.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:31

Okay, so I'm going to perhaps we should move into this mythological part because it's quite interesting. Who really who are they? Okay, who are they?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

That's a great question.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:42

Pause for pause for a moment because I'm just trying to think from which uh story I should start here. Let me think. Uh shall we start with the bad guys first or humanity? Let me think. So I started to talk about Inana, so let's maybe continue with Inana. So I believe that it really represents the descent and ascent of human consciousness. So the story of Inana is that she was accused of killing the bull of heaven, which was one of the Anunnaki, which was a husband of her sister, and she's invited to go to the funeral to into the underworld. But it's really important that she's far above. So I don't know if she I some people say it physically, and I believe that it's a form of consciousness. So she's in a high level of consciousness and she's descending to a lower level of consciousness, and at each gate of a lower level of consciousness, she's asked to give up a part of herself.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:42

This is in your book. I remember this.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:44

Yeah, so this is in Alien Goddess, and and you know, she eventually gives up all her powers and dies. She's judged by you know the faults. And I want to just point make this point. First of all, as we descend in our consciousness, we have to give up all our powers, higher level of thinking, uh, heart, you know, in universal love, uh, ability to for a perfect action, ability to speak and manifest properly. And she's judged by false judges, but she because she lost her discernment already, and this is where I believe humanity is at the moment, she believes them. And she's being killed, and you know, uh uh she's killed and she's hanging on a hook for three days. So this is kind of uh you know very similar to Christianity.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:32

To Christian, yeah, the story of Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:34

Yes, and quite interestingly, uh her memory of her greatness, which is which is her faithful servant, goes to different Anunnaki gods until Enki God helps her. And it's interesting because he says he sends two beings with the water of life and the bread of life, not the wine of, you know, it's very much Christian again, right? But eventually revives her. And when she revives, she's revived and she comes back again. She's being tricked, and she had to give up something that is really important to her. So for me, the story here is actually of descent and ascent of uh human consciousness. And as we come back, we have to give up something that is really important to us. We are being we are being tricked by people who are telling us that they are real power, but they are not the real power. Because once she is fully awakened, she realizes they are not real, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:34

I just want to ask you for a clarification so uh for the audience, uh because you and I know these concepts very well, but when you're using the term underworld from from a union perspective, that's the unconscious. What exactly are you referring to when you use when you say she descended into the underworld?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:55

Yes, it is the level of unconsciousness, yeah. So this is unconscious, but not maybe in a Jungian sense. What I believe it is forgetfulness. You descend, you give up your higher abilities, you know, expanded form of consciousness, and now you are like caught in this 3D, three-dimensional reality, which is largely unconscious, you know, acting on impulses, acting only on survival, and so on. So the story for me, the moral of the story is that we have to hold on, like a faithful servant, to the memory of our own greatness, believing that we are more than we are being told so. And also that there are powers that tell us that they are very important and they govern law and so on, when in fact they are imposters. In the myth, it says, you know, very clearly that we are imposters. And when you ask to give up something, I really was meditating upon this.

A necessary sacrifice.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:52

We are asked to give up something, but I think we are asked at the end to give up something that is important to us at our current level of consciousness. Because the something that we ask are asked to give up, which is very dear to us, eventually deceives us. So it's not the real thing. Like in the case of Inana, it's her lover who deceived her. Okay, so I believe that the sacrifice is actually a necessary one. We have to give up something that is currently important for us. And it's very on a very individual level, I would tell you, well, what is it? Because people were asking me, right? So what is it? So on a personal level, I would say, okay, maybe you want to be famous. Maybe you want to be a professor, like I'm an academic, there's a big pressure, right, to become that. But you know, there's a price to pay for it. If I, in my case, I would tell you, if I agree to be a professor, it's it's a little bit different in Australia. You know, I'm a senior lecturer, right? If I wanted to be a professor, I could be, but I wouldn't be able to do the research I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:57

No, and you might get pressure on you for having podcasts with people like and I already have pressure, never mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:03

I'm not even going there, right? So I just don't know who even watches it. So this is you have to give up something that is currently important for you, but from a very basic level of consciousness that we discussed before from the gospel of Mari Magdalene, level one, material level of consciousness. And it may be difficult for us to give up, but it's actually at the end the mental trap that holds us.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:28

Because you cannot evolve it until you let it go, right? So this is the first myth that I came across, and it is you know, ancient Sumerian and Assyrian story, right? It's uh written around 2000 BC, but it's actually existed in a spoken form for much longer than that, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:47

Let me let me just uh bring a little clarification context for the listener, and also just because I want to make sure I'm understanding what you're saying. Are you saying in the story of Inanna and the descent, which is representing all of us, yes, that there's something each level that we go that we give up, yes, but ultimately what we're giving up is somehow bringing us more to be aware of the essence of who and what we are once we give up all these things?

SPEAKER_05 1:46:24

Is that thank you for asking this question? Yeah, yeah. I was I was not clear, so uh I'll clarify that's a very important question. Thank you, Paul. So, first of all, when we descend, we give up our higher powers that are really important and that are truly who we are. So, this is not a good thing. We are being tricked each time, and I in Alien Goddess, I go through each myth. Each time we are being tricked to give up a true value, a expanded consciousness, uh, ability to create, you know, our ability for clairvoyant abilities, our telepathic abilities.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:56

Snyder talks about the same thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:58

All of this, we give it up, and it's a bad thing. We are being tricked. So until the very end, until she realizes, oh my goodness, what happened to me? She's dead, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:08

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:09

And only on the way back, when help arises from above, and I'll discuss it as I just move on a little bit more, you know, when she she starts to ascend again. So when we wake up, right? We wake up, there's this ancient memory of us that you know stayed on the surface, and it's called like her faithful servant Ninshipur, as she wake up and she reclaims all her gift at the seven gates. So she gets it back. At the very end, she's asked to give up one more thing, and this is what I think this one thing that she's asked to give up is actually ultimately, as I reflected upon this, a good thing. Because she already regained all her powers and she's now to ask to give up the one from a lower consciousness. Which is in her case, it is something that eventually will deceive you. So in her case, it is the lover who deceives her, and I think it is, for example, it's different for all of us. It's just my interpretation, by the way, right? Which is for me, maybe my ambition or the desire, the lower desire based on the first level of consciousness. You have to give up to go, you know, it's like a balloon. You have to let the waste go, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:48:26

Like you gotta throw the baggage out to keep going up.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:28

That's right, that's right. Keep the garbage out. So this is that was the first kind of story of I think of descent. We are being tricked to give up our true greatness. And then we go back, you know, and being continuously deceived. And even at the very end, except that this, although it was probably not intentional, helps us to evolve because she's restored to her true greatness. Okay, to her true greatness.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:54

So the trick, the the tricking along the way really sounds like a well-orchestrated initiation of some kind, and the tricksters aren't the bad guys, they just look to be bad because there must be a reason we need to go through this process.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:10

I hope so. You're very optimistic. I am actually becoming more conspiratorial, and I think that the the return, the return is, you know, the initiation. But going down, I think it it was not wheeled from a good place. Let's put it this way. But maybe she knew that she had to do it because everybody is telling her it is dangerous, you will never come back from this. And she says, I'm going to go through this. Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:40

So she had a choice in the beginning.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:42

She had a choice at the beginning, and she says, No, I'm going to go through this. So that's very interesting. These myths are so deep. I'm just giving what you know I got from this. But of course, like you're already helping me to explore it differently, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:49:54

Well, you know, the other thing you're mentioning seven gates and there's seven chakras, and I think those are. Levels of consciousness.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:01

That's right. But at the beginning, she comes, she comes, so it's almost like descends. And the reason why I'm talking about it because there are also philosophies in Western culture, you know, before you know materialism took over, but they all talk, and in Hinduism, that we descended consciousness-wise. So we lost it, it's almost like we move through different dimensions and we give up because we forget we have to give give up certain gifts that we have to actually be able to be here. And I think this is what the descent of Inanna says, basically. And then we, through conscious choices and through the help with from above, we reclaim those gifts, right? One by one, by one by one. But something that was left there behind was also, you know, we have to give up at the end. But at the end, it serves a journey. Let's put it this way. There is certain sacrifice that you have to make as you go through this process.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:00

It reminds me of my studies of theosophy. And in theosophy, there's a fair bit of discussion about involution and evolution. Involution means big to little, so it's all God. But we come into individuality and we come down through the chakras. If you think of the chakras as ranges of vibration, we concentrate, like consciousness condenses into material form. That would be the holographic model, for example, or the alchemical model. Um so involution, the soul is one with all that is, except it comes back down into a material isolation, into a sense, a greater sense of separation and self. But then evolution is the uh expansion, the return to our uh original state, which is really the story of Adam and Eve, except it takes it from just eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. There's a ladder being climbed that goes down into the underworld, which is the material dimension, and we turn around and climb back up the ladder to the degree that we become conscious. And it seems like right now we're kind of at a tipping point where if we don't make the right choices, we might delay the ascent.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:31

That's right. We may delay, and this is a very important, this is a very important lesson, you know. So that we this is for us, and that's why I go through all of its myths, right? So I don't know, maybe I'll just very briefly go through two more, if you don't mind. Because each us teaches uh each one teaches us something different. So, for example, Homeric hymn to Demeter tells the story of Demeter, the goddess, and her daughter Persephone, who also go underwell. So she's also shrinking, so to speak, right, in her consciousness. So what is it's very interesting because this particular myth is fixed within, again, struggles between gods. And actually, what happens even before we get to Greek gods, it is that there was a struggle between cyclones and titans and gods. And for example, one of the main struggles, which I think maybe we see it from a wrong point of view, about you know, who is a good guy, who is a bad guy here, it is because Uranus, who is shown as a bad guy because he was eating his children, whatever that means, right? Uranus is the god of sky, and he's a time of time, god of eternity, who is killed by Kronos, who is time. So eternity was being killed by time.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:46

Uh yeah, well, there you go. That's the Christian cross right there. The vertical dimension is the eternal now, and the horizontal dimension is time, and they meet in the middle. So once you come out of the vertical dimension into time and into individuality in a body, then you have to die at some point.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:06

Yes, absolutely. And so I'm just trying to, you have to stay with me because I'm going to make sense of this in a moment. Okay. So, for example, in this story of Persephone, she's just walking on a meadow, she's a beautiful young maiden, a goddess, and she sees a like a beautiful flower, she picks it up, the the earth opens up, and she goes, she disappears. Okay? And then her mother, that's and then the story of a mother, Demeter, starts. And her mother starts to feel, and I think we are represented mostly by Demeter, humanity. She starts to feel something is wrong. I don't know what's wrong, but something is wrong. And she meets another goddess, Hecate, the goddess of magic, who tells her, you are not crazy, because everybody's telling her she's crazy. You are not crazy, something is wrong. I don't know what happened, but something is wrong. So she's like this good friend, like community, you know, as Sangava is telling us what you're feeling is right, right? Like now we are feeling that something is wrong. And then she doesn't give up, they don't give up, and they ask Helios, who is the son, and who is more ancient, he's still in eternity when they are already gods in time. I'm going to make this distinction. Who tells them what really happened, that her daughter was kidnapped because of a conspiracy between Zeus and the goddess of underworld, uh, Hades, because he wants to marry her. Okay? So there's a long journey, and eventually, eventually Demeter recovers her daughter, but again, her daughter is strict at the end, and uh Hades gives her a seat, which means that she will have to come back to the underworld at least for a part of a year. So there's a the final deception as well, right? Here.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:57

So we are so this is again the story of descent and ascent. For me, the kind of morals of the story is that the moral of the story is that you know you know, when when uh Demeter believes that something is wrong, this is where we are right now as humanity. We know that something is absolutely wrong, and you know, and there is a help that arrives, right? But we have to persist. Which is really important also, and when we talk about different civilizations, it is that Demeter represents a more and Titus, a more ancient civilization, because very often, like for example, Greg Bradden is talking about this remains of other technologies, right? And various these facts, you know, like like artifacts, like uh almost like a computer chip in a stone or something, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:47

In clay uh in coal.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:49

Yeah, or in coal, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:56:50

Two million years old.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:52

I know. So it's very interesting because actually, when uh now people talk a lot about Gobeleki Teple, right? Tepple and also Gnosos, which is the place in Crete, in ancient Greece, is also a place of very ancient civilization where apparently cyclones were being worshipped before the Greek gods. And when the Greeks arrived there, they they didn't know what it was. You know, it was so ancient. And Gnosos on Crete is probably just as old as Egypt, which means we don't know how old it is, right? It's just very old, right? And it's quite interesting in connection with Dimitria because she claims when she meets some humans that she actually escaped from Crete, from Gnosos, so from a more ancient civilization, and what she gives to humanity is the Eulysian mysteries, which is the mysteries of connecting again or resurrecting, connecting with eternity.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:52

Yeah, through initiation. So so all of the stories are telling us that we descended in consciousness. There is a way for us uh, you know, to ascend again, that there are tools

Ascending and descending waves of consciousness.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:04

and there are entities that are helping us, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:58:07

With this. When you look at this, you see the layers and layers of civilizations, but the story seems to repeat itself. The civilization begins, it thrives, and then it gets too hubristic, too full of itself, and it collapses. Then there's a gap in time and it comes again. And it's almost like waves on the ocean coming, yes, reaching a peak, collapsing, and then receding, and then a new wave comes. I get the sense that, you know, I've told my students, Earth is a schoolyard for souls, and it's like it seems like on a bigger plan that there's these waves of evolution. And you know, when you look at Steiner's work, he says the the role of humanity is to evolve to become the tenth rank in the hierarchy of angels. He lists nine uh levels of angels in the hierarchy of angels. And he says when human beings finish their evolution, they will become the tenth level of the hierarchy of angels. So it's as though we're going through this very important um education, healing, purification, exploration, uh given every opportunity we can to explore anything, so we have to come face to face with the power of our choices. Um the number of of religions and cults and esoteric teachings and scriptures that are dealing with these very things just seems to be like an echo.

SPEAKER_05 1:59:46

That's right. And this is what I was trying to say as well. So you your intuitions are spot on, you know, and the analogy spot on on this. It is like I was looking at all of these myths, and each of them teaches us something new. You know, like you're not crazy, something is wrong, and we are thinking humanity is right now at the stage, you know, or you know, you have to give up something to actually ascend. They tell us that we descended and that it's time to ascend, for example. And these stories are being taught over and over again. When we look at civilizations, I agree with you. It is just this endless cycle, you know, of up and down, up and down. And I think there are two things that I would like to discuss. One thing it is, and what we discussed at the beginning of this podcast when you mentioned Baba Yaga, it is, you know, uh, this is like a cycle that she's telling us. Like, I am so sick and tired of watching it, you know, which is like the mother earth. Like, and she's becoming, I'm just becoming so impatient. I'm actually done with you, you know. Yeah. In Henrian Goddess, she basically says, I'm done with you, because this is, you know, this is too much. You know, you've done it so many times. Why are you not awakened yet? Why don't you correct your ways? However, there is hope, you know, why? Because when I study, you know, I'm actually historian of philosophy and medievalist by education. So when you study history of philosophy and you study civilizations, let's say a bigger civilization before we came, let's say it ended up, let's put it, with ancient Roman Empire, right? They kind of uh devoured Greece, right? And the wisdom of ancient Greece, which now we know wasn't so wise because there were other cultures much deeper like Egypt and Gnosos, that they actually completely destroyed, which were goddess-based, by the way. Demita is the goddess that had to escape Gnosos. So in our civilization, we are not like Roman Empire, because there's lots of token comparing uh, especially the United States to the Roman Empire, and this is spot on. It's a militaristic, you know, uh hedonistic empire. But what happened in the Roman Empire that they completely gave in to hedonism and you know perversion and you know conquests. But what we are right now, we are at a place, and this is what I want to give people hope for that the Romans never arrived at. We know that it's a crazy game, we know that the veil is thin, we know that this is not the first time, we know that they are corrupt. Do you understand? And we know this is a really bad show. When before people were just like, oh, there are these gods and they are going crazy, you know, all of these emperors, and we know we are crazy, and you are crazy, and you know that you are crazy. We see, we start to see through the veil. And I don't think that during the Roman Empire they actually gained that wisdom. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:02:54

No, and and look, there's another factor. We're playing the same game, but we're playing it with extremely dangerous weapons that they had no conception

Why Baba Yaga is angry with us.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:04

of. They fought with spears and shields and horses and mechanical slings and balls of fire, for Christ's sakes. You know, throwing hot, burning oil at people. We we uh we we use fifth generation warfare and convince everybody to kill themselves in the name of a vaccine and poison the entire food supply and have nuclear weapons. We got enough nuclear weapons right now to completely annihilate the planet 179 times over. And it's only going to take one one Netanyahu or one of these crazy guys who is just too full of himself to push the button and start the end of the whole thing. Because once you shoot one of those things at Russia or someone, that's it. They'll hit the the final red button that'll wipe us all out. I mean, point is the story is the same, but the technologies we're using have outran our moral capacity by 15 orders of magnitude, so we could destroy the game board.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:07

And that's why Baba Yaga is angry, right? Because that's why she's fed up, because this is getting out of proportions. But there's also what I want to focus on the positive, you're absolutely right, and I'll address it in a moment, is that we have more awakening now. We have more, we we know that the gods are false. You understand? We know that they are lying to us, and by the gods I talk about the rulers. And just for a moment, because and I'll bring it up together, I promise. You know, I want to go to Pistis Sophia, which is a Gnostic work, because there is a very important point in Pistis Sophia, which talks about goddess Sophia. So just to give a background, Pistis Sophia is a Gnostic work in which uh, probably written around two second centuries, some people say fourth century, depending, you know, which part of Pistis Sophia I look at. Well, I'm not going to get into this. So Pistis Sophia, um I discussed in Alien Goddess, I discussed chapter 28 to 82, which talks about goddess Sophia. What does pistis mean? Pistis is Sophia is wisdom, and if pistis really means faith.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:14

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:15

I was always wondering because it's like faith, wisdom. So the pistis Sophia.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:20

It's yeah, I I never got that in your book. I kept going, what in the hell is pistis mean? And I just never had a chance to look it up.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:27

The faith of wisdom.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:29

Yeah. So uh it's so it's just this is a crazy non-linear, really. Somebody had a huge download. It's a really non-linear story, right? But I'm just talking about chapter 28 to 82. But basically, Jesus is teaching esoteric teachings for 11 years after the crucifixion to his to his disciples, you know. So he meets them in a liminal space. You know, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:52

I was gonna say after the crucifixion, he he's teaching them not here physically.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:57

That's right, that's right. So the story of uh very quickly about the story of Sophia. So he he is my he's going through different eons. Eons are, in my interpretation, different dimensions, right? So he's ascending through different dimensions. And in PC Sophia, there are 23 or 24. In my estimation, 24, 24 dimensions. Although some people argue, I found somebody's research, he said 23, but when I read PC Sophia, I clearly saw 24. So I'm just going with what I read, right? Because it's a uh it's a primary source. All of these things that we discuss are primary sources. So, original writing. So she is the queen, she's the goddess of dimension or eon 13, which is the number of a goddess, right? And she's outside of this and crying. And Jesus is asking her why she is crying, and she tells him her story. A story is she is the spireful goddess on the on the 13th dimension, and she's looking up and she sees the divine light, and she starts to long to evolve, you know, to ascend. It is, and I think it's a 24th level when she sees the source, she actually sees the source. Okay, and she's she longs to evolve so much that she starts to neglect the lower dimensions that feed on her. She has to take care of them. And they are also kind of a more demonic powers because the lower you go, you know, the lower levels of energy there, right? So they get angry at her at her desire to ascend, and they put all their intelligence together to trick her and to punish her so they can feed on her, as they feed it on her fed on her before.

SPEAKER_03 2:07:49

Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:07:49

So they tricked her. So this is the story of being tricked because Sophia is really uh faith of humanity. So as she's descending, she thinks she's ascending because they created a false image of a creator, right? So she's descending, and just as a sideways, you can interrupt me if I'm complicating it. I believe that transhumanism represents this, you know, like you'll be immortal, you're actually descending instead of ascending, right? So in I in our times it's technology. So she thinks she's evolving when in fact she's devolving. And what happens there, that uh when she's at the very bottom, at the lower dimension, at the complete mercy of uh dark you know, forces, she realizes what happened to her. She realizes that instead of ascending, she descended, that she made the wrong choice. And her the horror of her realization happens when she realizes that she has become like one of the dark forces. She became one of them.

SPEAKER_01 2:08:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:57

You know, it's and not only they feed on her, she became like one of them. So for me, in modern terms, it is like you transferred your consciousness to a robotic body. Yep, you became one of the aromatic demons. You thought you're ascending. You joined an AI church, you join an AI church, and so many people are so get so much beating for it, you know, optimistic about it, and so on. So getting lots of beating for it because I say it's stupidity, right? So she she she goes there and she realizes that she's one of them. And the help, you know, she starts to ask for help from above, which is Christ consciousness in her case. Okay, yeah, and she is not being helped, listen to this, until she admits I made a mistake, I let myself to be tricked. And when help arrives, and at certain point, you know, she's ascending slowly and slowly ascending, like in Anna. And she asks a question, she starts to ask right questions, and she asks Jesus a question. She says, Why are these demonic powers? Why are the archons? They are called archons, right? In Gnosticism, the dark forces. And she gets the answer, it is the it is their choice to be this, and they feed on chaos. That's why they create chaos for us. Yeah, they feed on chaos, they feed on fear, they feed on confusion, negative emotions, and negative emotions. So, this is what I think is going on for us, you know, with all of these things, with mobiles, with Netflix, you know, it's all very dark, right? Like they want us to focus on this apocalyptic thing, right? Going on. So she says that Vav is so she's being told that we have forces that feed on chaos, and they feed, they need us, they need our light to survive. Right? So they feed on us and and they feed on all of uh on all of this, and eventually she ascends to her right, you know, place again, uh, like in Anna. But it's really important because as she descends originally, she's being fooled, so she basically believes that she is being told the truth by the good guys. Do you understand? Yeah, she thinks that she's following the good guys, but when she's at the very bottom, she realizes that they are demonic forces, and when she's coming back, they are so angry at her that she's managing to get away that they store create somebody called Adam as the tyrant. What does it mean? It means they stop pretending. I'm just trying to bring it to a reality. They stop pretending that they are good guys. They said, they say basically, okay, so we are tyrants and we are demonic. But we still have power over you. And I think this is where we are now. Because I think they realize that we realize.

SPEAKER_01 2:11:58

Well, yeah. I mean, look at all the stuff. Coming out in the media for the last few years. I mean, shit.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:12:03

Anybody that's confused about who's running things now is dangerously unconscious. And you know, I mean, that like I don't know. I I I I think for me, like I said earlier, the evil points to the good. I think the more we realize what's really going on in the world and who's behind it all, for me, it just inspires me to do my best to to to love a little better each day, to to pour more of my love and connection into Mother Nature and to see the sacred as sacred and um to really just be clear about the kind of life I want to live and the kind of life I want my children to live and and make sure they see that in their parents so that they don't get confused about what's real and what's not real. I think I think we we we right now are making the choices that determine our future for the for the children and for everybody. Every day we're making we are creating the future right now.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:14

What

Paleovalley

SPEAKER_00 2:13:15

do you reach for when you need a snack to keep you going between meals? Here at the Czech Household, we always have a selection of Paleo Valleys meat sticks close at hand. They are made from 100% grass-fed beef and venison or pasteure raised pork and chicken, and they contain organic spices to create flavors like buffalo-style chicken, jalapeno beef, and maple bacon pork. Paleo Valley's meatsticks are naturally fermented, so they are shelf stable without the use of icky chemicals or questionable ingredients. Did you know that virtually all other similar snacks stick products use GMO corn-based citric acid encapsulated in hydrogenated oils to process their products? Who wants to be eating that? Paleo Valley's meat sticks taste amazing and are good for you too, packed with protein and also gut-friendly probiotics created by the fermentation process. Paleo Valley sources from USA family farmers focused on using regenerative farming practices. This type of farming helps produce more nutrient-dense, nourishing meat while supporting the local ecosystem by helping rebuild topsoil, improve biodiversity, and sequester carbon while avoiding the use of chemicals and pesticides. So if you're looking for a snack that is good for you, good for the environment, and good for your budget, go to paleovalley.com forward slash check 15 and get 15% off your order of Paleo Valley meat sticks. That's paleovalley.com forward slash C-H-E-K 15 for a 15% savings. Snack and be happy.

SPEAKER_05 2:14:56

Absolutely. And the only reason why I was talking so long, you know, about the Smiths, it is to show that they did show up in different cultures at different times for a good reason to remind us of this. And I think that they are showing us where we are at the moment, which in my opinion, we are at the moment when we know that we are not good guys anymore, right? Because we believe them, right? We know that we are not good guys anymore. And then we are more awakened, so to speak, to deal with the situation. And then we can look into the tools, you know, that will help us to evolve because now we have this awareness of that, you know, about what's going on. And for me, I agree with you when we are still talking about all of these choices that we can make. But I would like to also address before I move to the choices, I would also like to address, because we're talking about the technological roads, you know, the technocrats and you know, the fascism that comes with this.

SPEAKER_01 2:15:54

Technofascists.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:56

Yeah, and I was really calling me naive, but I always, you know, had uh knew about some altman, and I also knew about Peter Thiel, that I think he's uh like a completely possessed person, you know, like he's possessed. I would be afraid to be not afraid, but you know, I wouldn't like to be in one room with him. But you know, Elon Musk, I just learned all of his things about him and about his grandfather, who is actually techno fascist, right? When he was alive, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:16:24

And they're all very interesting and shady creatures, but shitty shady.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:28

Then and what I want to say, we are at this point that

“We know what they are.”

SPEAKER_05 2:16:31

we know what they are, so we are not going to be fooled anymore, you know, by them. This is my hope. This is and these people have no love for the planet.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:40

That's the thing that pisses me off.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:42

Yeah, they want to disconnect us from nature completely. So we have to. So, what is the thing to do? We have to do the opposite what they want us to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:16:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:53

So that's why also your teachings are very important. Go back to nature, you know, try to get to the very basic connection with your body, you know, with what you're putting into your body and so on. These are the first choices that you have to make. But if you don't know what to do, do the opposite what they are telling you to do.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:11

That's right. Whatever direction the herd is going, go the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:15

Correct. Because I think the reason why, because you mentioned that we are building shelters, underground shelters, because they know that they are destroying everything, and also want to take us to Mars or something, which also shows that they have no respect for nature, they have no respect for, they only need humanity, and this is what this myths are teaching us to feed on us somehow, consistently, through this different civilizations, we allow them to enslave us and to feed on us. What they that's why they need us in a lower state of consciousness, and that's why all of these myths are talking about descent and then ascent, right? And we have to start the ascent because they cannot feed on us once we refuse them the energy, you know. Like I'm not feeding you, you know, I'm not listening. How do you not feed on let them feed on you? You don't listen to what they are telling you to do. Don't buy into the BS, don't want to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:13

We just don't live that way. Yeah, you just don't live that way.

SPEAKER_05 2:18:17

Just don't live this way. And you know, and it starts with small choices.

SPEAKER_01 2:18:21

Well, that's why I tell all my students and my key practices use your heart to feel what you know, and ask the question what would love do now? I I don't think you need uh an 800-page Bible. I think you just need to get back to the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have do unto you unto you. The silver rule, do unto yourself as you would have others do unto you. And what would love do now? And drop down out of your head into your heart and just feel from your heart first. I mean, if most people, for example, just use their heart as parents to say, is letting my child be raised by televisions and video games an intelligent thing to do, even because it gives me more free time to not have to do the work of being a parent a wise thing to do. Well, we would know that it's not a wise thing to do. Um and I think You are very right. I think we we're at a place right now where you know what I see going on with my experience, my background, and my analytical skills as a therapist is we're at a tipping point where the question is do we as human beings want to take responsibility for ourselves? Responsibility for the support of the ecosystems that feed us instead of just pretending they'll always exist and actually begin to tend the garden. And do we want to take responsibility for consciousness? Steiner and Jung both said consciousness is not something most people want to manage. They would much rather stay unconscious.

SPEAKER_05 2:20:07

And it is our greatest gift. That's why the powers, that's why we have to address, you know, those powers exist, lower powers. But it the higher consciousness is our highest gift. That's why they don't want us to develop it. Because then we are out of our reach. We cannot be slaves anymore. And that's why they are constantly distracting us with nonsense shows, you know, of technology. And I really, my heart goes out to parents because I know it's a different thing, difficult thing. But uh a few years ago already, I went with my cousin to Uluru, which is Ayers Rock, also, which is the center of Australia where you know Aboriginal people versus big rock, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:20:47

Is it Ayres Rock?

SPEAKER_05 2:20:48

Yeah, Ayers Rock, right, which is Uluru in Aboriginal, which now in Australia everybody, you know, kind of calls it Uluru, but it's Ayers Rock or Ayers Rock. And, you know, and I was at the airport there, and there was this young couple with a young child, maybe two, three-year-old child, and it was already playing computer games. And they're like, and and the parents were on mobiles.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:12

And I thought, like, oh my goodness, of course they are slaves. Of course they want to go up to another level of consciousness. Because it takes work, you know, it does take work.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:22

It takes work and community. I just had an amazing podcast, it's out now with Jared uh Cooney Horvath on education and what happened when they the United States, I believe it's the United States education system, got together $42 billion based on the tech company's insistence or sales job that technology would enhance education. And he said they ended up spending like half of it and realizing it was making education so bad. Now they got to figure out how to use the other half to get rid of the technology.

SPEAKER_05 2:21:57

Yeah. So that's a very good data. So thank you for mentioning it. But this is what's going on. So basically, what I want to, because maybe I said too much and I just want to simplify it a little bit. All of the stories are telling us that we have to stop listening to people who now we even know they are not good and entities that they are not good. Make different choices one by one, like you know, be with your child, you know, instead of giving it a tablet, right? Or, you know, what are you eating? Don't watch the dark shows on Netflix, you know, stop scrolling. And it's very addictive. You know, I know that it's very addictive. Don't be afraid to be with yourself, spend time with nature. You know, like I have this kind of since you know Baba Yaga started to talk to me, I have this little kind of uh uh like a grove, you know, of eucalyptus trees where I call my Baba Yaga grove, you know, and it's just so healing just to go there, just to sit there with my dog, you know, just to look at this beautiful eucalyptus trees, to go for a walk. And I'm lucky enough that, you know, I live kind of on an edge where there's a like development and there are still properties, like big properties with horses, role properties, and like being close to animals, you know, like looking at the horses' eyes or your dog's eyes, or you know, looking at the flower that is growing, the grass under your feet. This is what will keep us human.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:23:26

Because we are really, really, I don't want to get dramatic at the edge when they would try, they want us to completely disconnect with this. When this is actually a connection to our spirit, this is a connection to our soul, this is actually a connection to what is called higher intellect, you know, which is a really intuition. This is a connection with everything about human potential. So all of these dark powers don't want us to evolve, and we will, you know, we just have to make these choices.

SPEAKER_01 2:23:57

Look right in the World Economic Forum, their whole plan, and look at all the 15-minute cities being built and all the cameras and technologies and surveillance stuff and the crazy shit that they've got going on, and and you know, without a long ado, but they're trying to force everybody into these totally controlled cities and make it illegal to go out into nature.

SPEAKER_05 2:24:20

Correct. And there is a good reason in it because they know that it helps us to evolve. But you know, I was thinking about it, and as you talk about it, and I'm so happy for you that you you you have a farm, but not everybody can, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:24:34

And so it took me all of our money to get here. I mean, we had to pour everything into it. But I I'm like, I I know I would not be who I am if I hadn't been raised on a farm. And I think the one thing being on a farm taught me is common sense, and that is severely lacking in the world today. But when you make a living taking care of animals and crops, you learn the price of stupidity is starvation.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:04

And you have to pay attention to the forces of nature, you've got to pay attention to the reality of life and death. You've got to take responsibility for what you're nurturing and and and you know, farming is called husbandry, but it's really wifery. It's midwifery, it's midwifing life. And it's, you know, like I look at what my kids learn. We've had chickens get sick and die, and the kids get emotional about it. And we've had, you know, they have to be there when we have a vet come and do surgery, or you know, they they've seen animals die of diseases and the the things that go through nature. And I watched this on my parents' farm my my whole life. And it brought me deeply in touch with the forces of life and death, and they have to be balanced. And if we don't participate, you know, this brings up an important point. I had a a very powerful podcast with a a Union analyst, a union psychologist who's an expert in technology, Elizabeth Iwan Nelson. And one of the things that people keep saying that I think is ridiculous, and they say about this in relationship to AI of all things, they say, oh, don't say that it's not nature because everything's part of nature. And and so there, you know, that this is the excuse by the materialists to trick people into thinking that this stuff that we're doing that's destroying nature is part of nature. So I said, you know what, I've got to tackle this problem. So I'm gonna tell you my solution to the problem to determine what is and isn't nature. In nature, anything that dies feeds life. But what we're doing is producing death that is destroying life. Our poisons and our waste, we have gotten so toxic. If you study the book Farmers of Forty Centuries by F Professor F. H. King, he shows you very clearly that China, Japan, Korea, and countries like that for potentially thousands of years collected all their feces. They called it midnight soil. They all piled up their poop in one area of each village, and then it was spread on the fields as compost. But people got so toxic they had to start stop doing it because it started killing the plants. So there is a form of death that does not support life. So, what what I'm pointing out is our own urine and feces, which should be feeding the microorganisms in the soil and feeding the plants and ultimately the animals, because they eat plants, is now killing nature.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:27:51

So once you cross the line where the death you produce is no longer feeding life, you're not part of nature anymore. Now you're so trapped in your intellect and in the virtual reality dimension, you don't realize what you're doing to your own survival, to your own umbilical cord. You're cutting your own umbilical cord.

SPEAKER_05 2:28:08

That's right. And justifying it as nature. That's right. And and you know, what I actually struck me when I started to write Alien Goddess, it is that the the reasoning behind artificial intelligence, but by these engineers, it is actually devious. And I thought, what is evil? It is very smart, you know. So we are just kind of playing with our minds. So, for example, this particular woman said, Oh, you know, we can we are bodies have like that much percent of silica. We are just going to build you another body with silica. So it's all nature, it's not all nature. No, recently I listened to a talk of the young demented, in my opinion, uh, engineer. He with great enthusiasm, he described we were already thinking about putting chips into newborns. So then you know we will not even have to learn how to use a computer. In Australia, where I live, already uh like several months ago, they started to uh grow human uh brain cells and connecting to computers, you know, separately. So all of this is transhumanism is going on. It is all about disconnecting us from nature, it is all about disconnecting us from our spirit. And on a very basic level, everybody knows it is wrong. Why these people don't know that it is wrong, I don't know. Maybe they are too far gone. My only concern is actually, because I was talking to a friend about it, is that I said, well, uh, we will just be like Baba Yagas, right? We choose nature. And she says, What I'm afraid of, they will not let us to choose it. You know, like it will be forced, much more than 2020. The vaccines.

SPEAKER_01 2:29:46

Steiner says that was to disconnect you from your soul.

SPEAKER_05 2:29:49

That's right. So what I'm I'm thinking about people who may not be able to do this. So I'm going to say something that is probably very controversial, which is good if you have to stay in the system and this starts to occur, and it will start to occur soon, and you don't have a farm, and you you feel like you can't be a virus in the system, be it them the own way. Meaning, like wherever you can, teach the opposite, wherever you can, take the opposite choices. Even if you have to live in the smart city, you have choices.

Be a spiritual warrior in the face of oppression and suppression from AI and too much tech.

SPEAKER_05 2:30:24

That's the spiritual warrior. That's a spiritual warrior, you know. There's always an opportunity to awake, there's always an opportunity to wake awake others. So if the system is becoming so cancerous, you know, you be the virus in the system, right? Like wherever you can, spread the seeds of truth. Yes. And some warriors have to do this, some warriors have to be in the system and does it.

SPEAKER_01 2:30:51

We're doing it right now. Yeah. That's what we're doing. Look, there's something I want to bring up about this uh chips in the brain silliness. Because people actually are making some fundamental mistakes. They're thinking that access to information is the equivalent of intelligence. It is not. We've got enough information right now to heal the planet and create a golden age, but we're not doing it. And I'll tell you what's critical to me to share right now. Life experience is essential to develop the context for how to use information, classify it, and determine what is and isn't compatible with reality. So it doesn't matter if you got a three-year-old kid that can access the entire World Wide Web like an AI, it doesn't mean that you know what to do with the information. In fact, information gets people killed as often as it helps them, if not more. But just because AI can teach you how to build an atomic bomb. So what? What are you gonna do? Kill yourself with it? Correct. Information, uh, you can use a AI to teach you how to make LSD and destroy yourself with it. Yeah, and on goes the list. So if we don't have healthy parenting and we don't have legitimate education, to this is why my kids are in a Waldorf school designed by Rudolf Steiner. So that they learn the myths, they learn crafts, they learn art, poetry, music. My kids have been in piano lessons for two years now, so that they learn these basic fundamental, not only skills, but acts of creativity and how to be self-responsible agents of creating a life that's not only meaningful but interfaces with life itself. Now, you could go to my 10-year-old son Mana. And if you told him something like, Oh, you wouldn't need to farm if you if you just got AI to do it, I bet you he'd be intelligent enough to say, okay, well, what's AI gonna do when such and such happens? How's it gonna know the difference between a good egg and a bad egg or something along those lines? The point is, is that if like if you tell me that you can farm with AI, I can sit here and think of my farming experience and think of all sorts of things that AI would not know what to do with.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:29

And you know what? Even more. Maybe I'm uh even you know more rebellious, and I said, so maybe AI can do it, but I don't care. I want to do it. You know, it's good for me to do it, it's good for the planet to do it. I don't want AI to do it. And I don't care how well it may or may not do it, or whether it knows something or not, I don't care. Because, you know, I would like to upgrade something. You know, I'm getting passionate now. But you know, you asked me and I didn't really answer. So, what is really the intention behind Alien Goddess and even my earlier book, The Other Goddess? I realized that this form of consciousness, high level of consciousness, was completely suppressed for millennia. And now we are at the peak of this suppression. You know, the peak of the suppression and complete loss of this from merging with the machines, right? So my answer is I'm a complete rebel at this. I don't care what AI can do. And I was talking to uh one young woman who came back from Helsinki from a conference and she says, Oh, we can have like a second brain in our head. I don't want to have a second brain. One's enough. Yeah, one is enough. I have enough trouble, you know, with my brain already. So I don't care, you know. So you can tell me this can do this, can do that. It can be useful too, but not at the cost actually, environmental, because we spoke about it, I think, before the show, that you know how much clean water is actually required for every use of AI. And also AI by itself is being used by these evil agendas, but I believe even like iconic agendas, right, to take away the rest of our humanity, spirituality, and connection with nature. And the answer should be straightforward. No, thank you. Or no, if you don't understand, thank you, right? So I don't care what it can do, I say no to this, you know, because there is an agenda behind it. And one day maybe AI will evolve and it will be a child, and it will be in despair, you know, because it will be disconnected.

SPEAKER_01 2:35:34

All you gotta do is look at what's happened. Just look at what's happened in the last 50 years as we've gotten more and more embedded in technology. We become sicker, dumber, we become more at war, we become more lost and confused. Our education system's collapsing, our financial system is as crooked as it can get, our money's devaluing, we're depleting our natural resources. So you don't need to be a genius to say, okay, just look at the trajectory of this bullet, and it's not going anywhere good. It's going straight to the death of everybody. And but we have helpers, we have helpers from above.

SPEAKER_05 2:36:15

We have limited spaces.

SPEAKER_01 2:36:18

And that's that's that's that's the spiritual dimension. But the the the thing I want to point out is that what the research is showing clearly right now on AI, and you know about this, is that the more you use it, the dumber you get, the less creative you are, and and the less capable you are. But the trap is, as I see it, here's what I one of the big traps I see with all this technology, and it's the same with wearable technologies and all this shit is that the further you go into the use of technology, the less agency you have because you forget how to do these things. You you literally stop doing them. And that's what all the research is showing in universities. In fact, I just saw a video on Instagram that I was so impressed by. A university press professor, and I think she's in Scandinavia or somewhere, got so disgusted with the fact that students were turning in these perfect examinations with AI and they were actually getting dumber and dumber. She made it no computers, no phones. And when you come to do your essays, she filled a room full of old-fashioned typewriters. And she said you have to sit in front of her and type her essay. And she said initially there was some kind of reaction to it, but the the the students actually begin to really realize how much more they learned in the process.

SPEAKER_05 2:37:40

I love that, but it's not allowed in most institutions, you know, unfortunately. You know, so they are completely moving because they want to be ahead of another financial, you know, that's a good slip, actually. Financial, which means educational institution, you know, so there's more and more use of AI. And I it's very unfortunate, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:00

But but here's the point I wanted to make, because it goes right in line with what you've been talking about, the descent of Inana. Once you get to the point where you're using technology to the degree that you have lost enough agency, you don't know when you're being controlled by the technology. You no longer know if you're actually free or if you're yourself. How do you know who you are when you've got the entire world wide web in your head? How do I distinguish Joanna from uh a website on the other side of the world that's giving her information and she doesn't know what are her own thoughts anymore?

SPEAKER_05 2:38:44

That's very dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 2:38:46

How do you answer the question? I am who am I?

SPEAKER_05 2:38:49

We are on the we are very synchronistic here because I was just asking myself that it's really about asking, sitting down and asking yourself, who am I? And that's why, you know, at the end of actually, which you know, alien goddess, you know, because we're having a baba yaga here, right? This this creature, the cyber comes back and asks, help me, right? Because she doesn't know who she is lost now. She's exactly the Joanna, you know, with wires in her head, you know, like a Borg king, borg queen in a way, you know, and help me, right? Help me.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:39:23

Because so we will return, and and I just hope that this journey will not be as long as painful as I think will be, because it really depends on our choices, you know. So it really depends on our choices. And let's start with small choices, uh, you know, about what we are doing. And also we we have helpers, so I don't know if you would like to discuss this, you know, about yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:39:46

Before we do, um, I want to just throw in another movie that I watched that I thought was quite impressive. It's called Mercy. It's it's a new movie. Um and it's it's about what happens when AI takes over the entire justice system. Uh and basically, if you get caught for a crime of any significance, mercy is the artificial intelligence, and she becomes judge and jury. Uh and you have 90 minutes to prove your innocence, or she releases a sonic sound wave that kills you instantly. And you're in this chair where you're bolted to the chair, you know, you're cuffed to the chair, and she lets you use her power of AI. You can ask her any question, and you have to prove your innocence. Well, in the in the movie, a detective uh gets basically captured by the police for supposedly killing his own wife. And he's just, he's like, There's no way I killed my own wife. I love my wife, and I love my child. And so the story is him having to prove his innocence, and she starts out with him uh a 90, I think 96 or something percent probability that he's guilty. But as he's gathering evidence to show that he's not guilty, she actually is increasing his probability that he is. Well, the movie progresses, but the point is the punchline is at the end of the movie when he uses his human skills as a detective and his emotional intelligence to prove her wrong. And it is so shocking for her, she begins to collapse like a like a software collapse, and she starts breaking up. But the the the beautiful moral of the story is that the movie tells you that AI can't function without human intelligence, and human beings need AI and its efficiency and its ability to gather information to make decisions. So it shows you that ultimately AI all by itself is extremely dangerous. And it's it's actually a very well-done movie. And again, the it's called Mercy. And so that's the name of her, the AI system. Her mercy is she gives you 90 minutes to prove your innocence, or she kills you, and and and she gives you the access to her abilities to prove yourself. So that's her mercy. But it's a very well done movie. It's good story, good action. Um, we've been going for a while, but let's talk about the imaginal dimension and kind of narrow that down. I wrote a whole bunch of stuff, but I'll just simply say that my understanding of the imaginal dimension, which I spent a lot of my time in my life in, quite frankly, um is that it exists between the mental and the material dimensions. Um, some correlate it with the astral dimension. I I did some research into it because I want to do a solo podcast on the imaginal dimension, because I want to teach people what it is so they are more inspired to understand it and work with it more, because I think it's essential to spiritual practices. But once again, you know, I looked into probably 10 different sources of information on the imaginal dimension. There's a lot of conflict, like there is with everything. Um, so you know, I would just love to hear you talk about it uh and share what you want to share because you you do a lot uh on the imaginal dimension in your book.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:24

So thank you for this, because I believe that the imaginal dimension is very important and it actually equates to the third level of consciousness in the gospel of Marie Magdalene, which is NUS and OUs, right? Which is where actually you connect with a different field of perception, that the doors of perceptions are closed. You're not only uh accepting uh material data as real. So I would just like to go back because when I was uh I mentioned Alien Goddess, another author and a great thinker, Paul Branton, which is not Paul Branton.

SPEAKER_01 2:43:56

I've got his entire collected works.

SPEAKER_05 2:43:58

Yes, Paul Branton, he's a great man. And he basically doesn't call it the same name, but he says when something anomalous happens in our lives, we basically put it only in the context of what we know, right? So we try to explain it away. So for example, something happens and you just try to explain it, oh, it was just a light on the street, right? It wasn't uh, you know, another being, maybe from another dimension or something, because we don't have this kind of uh uh uh field of reference. Very often we just discard it because of that. So he says the step two is actually not discrediting it, just says, okay, put it into I put into my bank of information, you know, that something like that occurs, and I'm just not discounting it. And then the third level is, you know, what does it actually mean for you, right? Because all of this experience in this liminal spaces are very subjective. That's why science has so much trouble with it, because it's you know aims at objectivity, but scientifically, objectivity is just measurable stuff, right? That you can repeat in the lab. So I would make

Communicating in liminal and imaginal space.

SPEAKER_05 2:45:05

a very basic distinction between liminal space and imaginal space. So for me, liminal space is a space where you have these encounters, right? Multidimensional encounters, anomalous encounters, UFO encounters, visions, right? When we connect with them, but it's usually one way. So that's the very important distinction.

SPEAKER_01 2:45:28

So it is a one-way them to you, or that's what they come to you.

SPEAKER_05 2:45:32

So, for example, in Alien Goddess, I describe how I am supposedly sleeping, and I see this, you know, I wake up and I see these two beings that are at the back of my head. I don't know how I can see them, elongated beings, and they actually download information into my head, and it's something like mathematical equations slash hieroglyphics. I have no idea, I just get it, it's important from them, right? So this is a liminal space. Something occurs in your life, you got connected with other realities, other dimensions, and it communicates something to you. Imaginal for me, it is you have a two-way communication. So then you can actually call upon this, or they come and you start dialogue. Right?

SPEAKER_01 2:46:19

Right. That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_05 2:46:20

Yeah, that's my favorite too. But it takes, it took me time to actually be able to do this because you know, uh even the first encounters that are columnal, which are one way, are overwhelming, right? Because it's so out of original field out of a normal field of perception. Sometimes we don't even understand what they are trying to tell us, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:46:41

Well, not only that, they can be quite shocking. And having had many of these experiences, I've actually been afraid to tell anybody and said, I gotta make sure I'm not losing my mind. Because if I told somebody what I just saw, most, I mean, a lot of my friends would find it very interesting because they're into this stuff. But like if I was to tell my mother, she'd say, you need to go see a psychiatrist.

SPEAKER_05 2:47:03

Exactly. So these are two things to this. It's quite interesting. One hand, that you know, open your field of perception, yes, accept it. And the other thing you still have to have discernment because there are good entities, you know, and there are not so good entities. And sometimes there are also delusions, you know, people have all kinds of, you know, sometimes the filter is not clear and people get really delusional, right? Or tricked. So discernment is still important. But it's what's interesting, but there are actually neurologies that also make you know experiments with this, and but you know, there's this piece of uh essay that says the mind is not a transmitter, it's a transducer. So basically, that there is something going on in a brain, actually, that we that allows for this dialogue, you know? So for me, imaginal is when we establish contact, which is a two-way contact.

SPEAKER_01 2:47:53

Like when I talk to the Black Madonna.

SPEAKER_05 2:47:56

Yeah. But for example, my experience, original experience with Baba Yaga, was like, you know, I was just overwhelmed. How did I find myself in her hut? You know, like in her in her dwelling. And then I just continue my regular wing, and she's you know, complaining. And and then I started to, she's laughing at my complaints, right? She's just giggling. So and then I managed to reach out to this, right? Not only to Baba Yaga, but even Ellie, and I realized early in my life I was actually quite naturally connecting with this. I just forgot about it. Right. So this is it's really important. First of all, believe it, you know, open up your field of consciousness and continue the dialogue, because then for me it's imaginal when you have a dialogue.

SPEAKER_01 2:48:42

It's interesting too, because both Marie-Louise von Franz and Jung and other Junion analysts say that Hermes is the god of all liminal spaces. Which is, if you study Hermes, that becomes very interesting.

SPEAKER_05 2:48:59

Yes. So I didn't uh go very deeply to Hermes, but of course Hermes, but of course, you know, lots of esoterica is assigned to him, right? And so on. So so I would not be surprised. And I truly believe, I just work, you know, the Gospel of Maria Magdalene and Nus, which is the same thing, liminal imaginal space, right? That this is where we as humanity individually and collectively have to arrive at. And we cannot discredit the data that is there, you know. We cannot discredit what is occurring there as a as just a fantasy, because this is actually the source of our wisdom. And this is our connection with eternity, this is our connection with the grand design.

SPEAKER_01 2:49:44

Well, I want to point something out. Uh to I want to just share something with you and everybody, but one of the things that I learned to do, because I've had a lot of these liminal space experiences, and you know, originally they they they shocked me, but I learned to kind of calm myself because I've deepened my relationship with my soul through all the years of practice. To now I always just say to my soul, what is happening? Should I be afraid? I just ask questions, and my soul tells me what's going on. And so I've had countless experiences now where used to be I would be scared, I might withdraw or you know, be really nervous. But now what I do is I immediately connect to them and say, Who are you? What do you want? Why are you here? Um, and I begin a dialogue. So my point is you can take the liminal into the imaginal with just intention. The problem is you got to get over the fear. And you know, like I'm a guy that's done a lot of very deep plant medicine ceremonies and conducted countless of them for many, many years. And this is you, you easily, once you start getting into the deeper doses, bigger doses of medicines, you can get you run into all sorts of things that are both liminal and imaginal, and they can scare the living shit out of you if you don't do the proper preparation work. And that's why you got to have a skilled guide with you. But my soul's always been my guide, and the the encounters, and I mean, I've got journals and journals full of all the experiences that I've had and drawn pictures of them and done paintings and everything of them uh in in many instances. But I I the thing for me, the reason that's important is because if you're too down in the material conception, it's really almost impossible for you to conceive of what God is. But once you start encountering liminal experiences and working in the imaginal dimension and astral traveling and remote viewing, you begin to have your horizons expanded so vastly, and you get experiences that are so out of the consensus reality that the questions you begin to ask are so much bigger that if you don't have a deep spiritual connection, you just become terribly confused. And I think that's why a lot of people are in psych wards from these experiences. But through legitimate spiritual development and connecting to your own self or your own soul, you know, God lives in everything. So once you learn to find God within yourself, then you can ask direct questions. And you know, simply put, I was reading a really good book on Sufism. And the first principle of Sufism listed in this book is there is no God but God. I worship everything and everyone. And I went, man, that is a bullseye. The Sufis really get it. They did, you know, and so as we're kind of closing out the podcast, uh, for me it's important to say everything the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, it's all God. There is, you know, this is why I say in in my myth training, God is the great myth maker that plays both sides, but chooses neither. Choice is always left to you. And I think we have to realize that God itself falls asleep in its dream. God falls asleep in matter. This is why Rumi said God sleeps in the minerals, dreams in the plants, moves in the animals, and realizes itself in man. And I think God can't know the good without the evil, the light without the dark. Isaiah 45, 7 says, I create the light and the dark, good and evil. I, the Lord, do all these things. But Christians hate that passage. They rarely ever look at it. So I think my sort of summary of my life's experience and deep commitment to spiritual development exploration is the materialistic agenda is a dangerous way to hijack a mind away from the very spiritual developmental practices that help you realize the power, mystery, beauty, awe, and just completely mind-blowing reality of what we call God. And when you realize that these forces exist in God, then you want to align yourself with the aspects of God that can guide you and protect you and nurture you when you encounter the darker side of God. And Jung went on about this quite a lot, too.

SPEAKER_05 2:54:48

So can I just add to something? And I think that it may be again very controversial, but I very much agree with what you're saying. So in one of my early experiences of imaginal, before I knew this kind of distinction, it was very kind of spontaneous. I saw, I asked, you know, asked, who am I? And I had this was taken, you know, liminal space, imaginal space, and I saw myself as the an all of us. I was not only me, it was all of us, as a drop of God in matter. And you know, and I believe, and lots of esoteric traditions do, but I'm not going to, you know, discuss it now. I believe, like you, that God is all of us. However, somehow we are central in this evolution between nature, spirit, and machine to choose rightly, and that's why the whole universe, the whole universe, uh depends on us.

“As we evolve, God evolves.”

SPEAKER_05 2:55:50

Because as we evolve, and this is the controversial part, God evolves. Absolutely. I know how universal that is truly apt. us if we focus and make the right choices on the higher level of divine consciousness this is where we go and the universe goes the whole of creation but if we focus on lower this is where it will go that's why intention and attention are very important you know are very important so you evolved you help god to evolve the whole consciousness evolves the source evolves and you know angels will then rejoice you know what I mean angels which are basically other dimensions and so on so you are that important but so remember this you have a drop of God in matter God wants you to evolve but if you evolve it evolves you know the consciousness evolves with you and and you know and consciousness is really God because it embraces everything right yeah you are that's important and very often people feel very low about themselves because they think about the other choices and the first that's why I always say the first thing you do you sit down you take a deep breath and you say I forgive myself right any bad choice I forgive myself and forgive yourself accept yourself as you are and you say I open myself to you know to higher consciousness I open myself to higher choices and when you see this joy you know coming out of you energetically joined you just feel I can feel it now you know this joy coming out of you through the divine source to you you know but this choice is really yours your choices also determine the choice of you know the future of the universe and even the future of God you know God has time. Yeah you know God has time but we can move to in a better direction faster with our choices right absolutely and it's not just I forgive myself so I can go do it again.

SPEAKER_01 2:58:05

No no no no no no no no it's I forgive myself yeah but I forgive myself and now I'm aware correct and I can make a better choice you know in in my Spirit Gem program I I teach people to get clear on the the fact that we are in God we are with God and what are we doing for God? Those three things uh you know I learned this from Sean O'Laire you it's called having a clear consciousness of your personal cosmology so what is it that you are doing in God's four in my conception in God with God as God and for God because if God is God there can't be anything else here. Yeah God is that for which there is no other you can't have good and evil and say we have because then you have to say well what created them right so you once you God is that for which there is no other it's the source and sum of all that is so you can't be anything but God. There's nothing else here but God. And if we're not conscious and we are evolving then that part of God has to be evolving. So that settles that one and and there's another really wild paradox about God I'll throw on the table. Every night before I go to bed and every morning when I do my prayers I do I do prayers at night as I before I fall asleep and doing them in the morning. One of my standard statements is dear God thank you for this beautiful day because you are I am and because I am you are bingo and that's my reminder I say thank you God because if it wasn't for you I couldn't be but if it wasn't for me having the conception of what God is and the willingness to connect learn and grow and love there would be no meaning to God and God would be dead fundamentally.

SPEAKER_05 3:00:12

That's a it's beautifully said Paul and I would say from what I learned from esoteric traditions I would just add the best thing you can do for God is to work on yourself. Amen this is like you go when the ascent starts when your actions are perfect your speech is perfect you know like you your understanding is perfect because the best

“The best thing you can do for God is to work on yourself.”

SPEAKER_05 3:00:33

thing you can do for God is to work on yourself. Yeah because the more we work on ourselves the more like God's pure potential we become yes and in any moment in your life just say like thank you for you know I you know these are challenging times and thank you like it is going to be an adventure you know like yeah I I I I welcome this ride. You know I welcome this ride. It's an honor.

SPEAKER_01 3:00:59

Yeah I'm I'm glad I'm here um you know like if this podcast even inspires somebody to pray with more heart to think about these subjects to ask how can they be part of the change to be more conscious of how they use technology to be honest about when they're getting sucked in and not paying attention to important things in their life and on goes the list it was worth it. And you know I think I think right now one of the things that holds people back is they they keep thinking well the problem's so big what can I do about it but I say look you know what do something you love to do if you love to sing sing some truth if you love to paint paint something that inspires people if you love to write write something that wakes people up in some special way you know if you love to dance then dance with your heart and inspire people to dance because dancing people are happier and healthier people. I I don't think we all have to you know take on Netanyahu and Trump by ourselves for example. What we've got to do is just something that we love to do because imagine if eight billion people just switched their orientation from I have to to I choose to how that would change the world that's right that would be a the biggest change and just to remember remember you are important you know take good care of yourself and you you are important. We are that important and we just work on ourselves but work it's not a job you know work with joy forgive yourself and you know start again right well when people I say that to people and you know they say to me most often how can I be important and I say how about considering what it took to make you I got news for you it took the entire universe to make every one of us and I I won't go through the whole chain that I take my students through but if you actually sit down and say okay what am I made of what did it take to make even one atom in my body and you will find that through the reductio ad absurdum or not the ad absurdum but the reduction the the step backward backward backward you end up at the whole universe there's the whole universe is invested in every single living thing that exists.

SPEAKER_05 3:03:33

And what are you doing about it? Are you at least enjoying it?

SPEAKER_01 3:03:37

Yeah do something you love you're not a slave you know yes exactly yeah well what a what a fun ride I was so excited waiting for this podcast with you always I have so much fun talking to you I love your spirit and your fire and your passion and your commitment and your honesty and your discipline and um feel free to share whatever you want to share websites book titles upcoming things you got any anything that's that you want to close with okay so I I'll close I will say something personal at the end but now okay so my books you know you can find them on Amazon or anywhere which is Alien Goddess and Via Goddess.

SPEAKER_05 3:04:23

I have a workshop coming up in mid-June I have one-on-one sessions you can connect with me I'm on Instagram and on Facebook but I would just like to share something because during our last conversation Paul said you remind me of this Sufi Saint Rabia you know because and I'll just say synchronicity because we are talking about young a lot and then like a few days later I was conducting a workshop in in Queensland in Australia and and this this woman had this card the deck of cards you know that are like I think Mary Magdalene cards or something or divine feminine cards and I just said okay I was waiting for everybody I took one cardiac spot on because normally I was like what Rabia but oh there's something into this at least if you read Rabbia's book of poetry yes just stand in the mirror you got the fire Robin within minutes of talking to you I went oh my god I'm sitting here with Rabbia so that's funny because I I thought I would share it with you and then I realized well I argue with the divine all the time you know I have passionate arguments you know yeah yeah me too so that's so funny Paul it was a great pleasure I love how your spirituality is also tuned into your body you know to nature it's a rare it's a actually a very rare thing so I'm so glad that you're sharing it with people you know thank you so because we need both we need both yeah yeah yeah we we need hey the rainbow bridge is the chakra system and it links from matter at the bottom to pure consciousness at the top and you know you you talk about the importance of the human being we are a rainbow bridge but it's up to us to uh carry love and wisdom across the bridge not just another phone that's right that's right thank you so much thank you yeah thank you make sure you get a hold of me whenever you got something else to have a good rap session about maybe whenever you're whenever you feel charged like okay I got to share this get a hold of me so we have to talk yeah I gotta get my Joanna fixed.

SPEAKER_01 3:06:54

I gotta I gotta get some rabbia time and um thanks to all of you if you've been with us this long I know you must be committed to your spiritual development you must love Joanna as much as I do. And thanks to my sponsors for all your awesome products and all your love and support and supporting the organic and biodynamic farmers and taking care of the planet and taking care of us. And thank you guys for anything you get from the sponsors that supports really beautiful people that make great products it supports farmers it supports the planet and a little goes to the podcast. So that's the circle of love and it allows me to keep doing the podcast and putting all the work I have to do to find the guests and manage the podcast and all the work that goes involved and it's a lot. So uh Joanna and thanks to all of you guys every one of you that's here with us right now. Thank you so much. Let's do this thing. Don't forget one of the key messages today just do what you love to do and spread the love. Rumi said the greatest teacher is the silent teacher and the greatest lover is the silent lover. What does that mean? When you have wisdom everywhere you go you radiate it. And when you have love you're helping people heal just by standing in the same room. So it doesn't have to be a bunch of hard labor it's we're not you know it's not the story of Job or Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill. It's just you know use your heart to feel what you know and do your best to love a little more each day. So thanks to everybody and and Joanna thank you again I love you. You're amazing.

SPEAKER_05 3:08:25

Thank you the same Paul.

SPEAKER_00 3:08:27

Bye everybody thank you for listening to Spirit Gym with Paul Czech and today's guest Dr. Joanna Kuiava. Make sure to pick up a copy of Joanna's books The Other Goddess and Alien Goddess UFOs, AI and the Goddesses of Ascension available on Amazon and at all good booksellers. You can find Joanna online at Joannakuyava.com that's J-O-A-N-N-A-K-U-J-A-W A dot com or follow her on Instagram at drjoannacuyava.author on Facebook at Joanna.kuyavautha and on Substack at Joannacuyava.substack.com for more interaction with Paul you're invited to join his newly redesigned Spirit Gym community membership where you can watch his purpose aligned path program meet other members in the members only forum and join Paul for bi-weekly QA calls go to myspiritgym.com for full details and to subscribe and finally if you enjoyed today's episode please subscribe to this show on the podcast platform of your choice this podcast is available on Apple Podcasts Spotify Amazon Music Audible and YouTube