Speaker: 0:16

Hello and welcome to the first episode of These holy bones a podcast about the Camino de Santiago The ancient pilgrimage road to the cathedral of Santiago in the northwest corner of spain Today we'll be speaking with my wife Karen Ernie Karen and I have walked the Camino four times together And she's going to speak a little bit about her experiences And the significance of her journeys Karen, how are you today?

Speaker 2: 0:45

Good. How are you?

Speaker: 0:46

Very well. Karen, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to walk the Camino at least in 2015?

Speaker 2: 0:56

We were thinking about going on the Camino. It was really more just talking about it. And then, um, it got more and more serious. We started to plan and I was a little hesitant, but I was convinced that it was something that I really needed to do.

Speaker: 1:12

Now why is that?

Speaker 2: 1:14

Well, because I knew that it was going to be a prayerful time and one morning when I got up early and I was praying and I was writing in my prayer journal, I was very convicted. And then that particular day was the day that you asked me, uh, this is a really good price for the plane tickets. You sure you want to go? And it just happened at the right time. I said, yes, get the tickets.

Speaker: 1:35

Okay. So would you say you were moved by the Holy Spirit or? I

Speaker 2: 1:42

would say, you know, I wouldn't say that I wasn't, I don't really know who moved me, but I knew that it was a spiritual thing. Definitely, um, I believe in God, and so I think he works in our lives, and the timing was just right. Because it would be very easy for me to say, oh, come up with an excuse and not go, because I prefer to stay home for the summer.

Speaker: 2:03

Okay, so you went in 2015, 2017. 2019 and then you did the, we did the, uh, Portuguese Camino last summer in 2023 from Porto to Santiago. Which one stands out the most out of the four that you've, that we've done together?

Speaker 2: 2:19

Well, I mean, just because it's closer to me, uh, in time, it's easy to, to remember the different details of the one we went on, the Portuguese Camino in 2023. However, there are definitely times when I remember parts of the Camino, but I'm like, Hmm, I wonder what year that was. I wonder which Camino that was. Um, so they're all memorable, but to make sense of it and to remember more of it, um, in a linear fashion, it would be the Portuguese Camino stands out the most since it's the most recent.

Speaker: 2:52

Okay. And then, um, what would you say is, or was one of the most significant aspects of your Caminos?

Speaker 2: 3:01

Well, I think the time on the road, as much as it was often painful with blisters and, um, you know, extra, you know, soft feet, like right down into the bones and, you know, having to stretch out at night and wondering if you're going to be able to walk The next day. So there was a lot of pain involved. Um, so in that sense I was like, Oh, I don't know if I really like all this walking, but what I liked about it was the time out on the road because when you're out walking and walking and walking and sometimes in great pain and wondering when the next stop is going to be, are we going to stay that night? Uh, you really turn to Jesus. You really depend on him. At least for me, that was the case. And so there was a lot more prayer time. Uh, during the Caminos than I typically have in the summer.

Speaker: 3:47

Okay. That's wonderful. All right. So what would you recommend for a person who is considering the Camino, but it's kind of, they're kind of sitting on the fence still. They're still very hesitant about the journey. What would you, if you were sitting here talking to that person, what would you say to that person?

Speaker 2: 4:04

Well, I think that it's definitely a worthwhile experience for just about anybody and everybody because when you walk Camino, you go your own pace. Uh, you decide when you're going to stop. You can determine, you know, how many weeks you're going to be away, how much money you want to spend. You can plan all that ahead. Uh, but then when you get out there, there's just so many exciting things that happen. And just seemingly simple and, um, you know, like daily occurrences, but out on the road, they become very meaningful. Like when you're handed a bottle of water, when you're really thirsty and you had run out, things like that happen a lot. Uh, not just with water, with food, with clothing, uh, with having a place to stay and all that. So I think that if somebody is considering it, they should really consider it seriously. If they're a prayerful person, they should pray about it. They should decide whether or not they're going on their own or with someone else. So they should really look at it as if it's, um, Uh, a very important thing to do and not to say no to it lightly, like they have to have a pretty good reason not to go because I highly recommend the Camino to just about anyone.

Speaker: 5:13

That's, that's awesome. All right. I appreciate that. All right. So what about, what would you consider five essential things that you brought in your pack on the Camino?

Speaker 2: 5:26

Five essential things. For you,

Speaker: 5:27

for you. I'm sure it's going to be different for every person. Well,

Speaker 2: 5:31

carrying water is essential. Uh, carrying an extra, like, piece of fruit or an extra, like, bag of nuts or a, you know, uh, some kind of granola bar, anything like that is pretty essential for those long stretches and when water just isn't cutting it. But at the very beginning, there were those powdered things. mixes that you put in the drink that really boosted your energy. I only needed those maybe for the first, you know, three to five days the most, but they were essential then after that water was more than enough. Um, you know, the extra change of clothes, uh, the layers of clothes rather than, you know, You know, having a real heavy shirt and a real light shirt, just like layers of very comfortable, um, clothing I've burned easily. So long sleeve shirts, long pants for me, a hat, um, even gloves to cover my hands, to be honest, poles. trekking poles. I, the first Camino, I didn't want them at all, but I don't know why, I just wanted a walking stick. Until the second or third day in, I felt like I wasn't even walking, even though I was moving forward. So you said to me, here, take my trekking poles. And when I did, I I felt like I was all of a sudden motorized. So the trekking poles are essential. A good pair of shoes, whether it's sneakers or boots. Um, in the pack itself, very light. I mean, you have to really consider what am I going to be doing during the day? What am I going to want when I wake up in the morning? What am I going to want when I get to a place at night and I'm still awake? I think like if you're someone who likes to read, and you like a tangible book, it's worth it as long as it's small and lightweight. Like you have to consider what do I really want to be doing on the Camino? And what do you really have time to do other than walking? But then you have to say, okay, now can I get a smaller, lighter version of whatever it is?

Speaker: 7:28

All right. And the last question, how is the Camino or your Caminos? How have they impacted your life, your life after the Camino?

Speaker 2: 7:38

Well for me, they're very memorable and they're also something that I share with you, um, because you go, you're going on your ninth Camino in a couple of weeks. And if I didn't go on the Camino, I would really wonder what's the attraction, like what is it? And sometimes it's hard to put into words why the Camino is so important to me. And other times, you could say, Oh, I could write five pages in five minutes about why it's so important. It's, uh, and I think it's different for everybody. But also it's very different every time you go. It's not like you're going, uh, you're going on the Camino, it's gonna be the same thing this time. No. And every day is new and exciting and unexpected. I mean, you're dependent on so many things on each other, on the weather, on whether or not you make it to the ATM machine to get, you know, the money that you need, uh, where you sleep that night, whether or not you get the private room or the berga, um, whether or not you get a bunk, um, a low, you know, um. The bottom rung of the, the

Speaker: 8:41

bottom bunk.

Speaker 2: 8:42

Thank you. The bottom bunk or the top bunk, you know, things make a difference and I think that it's just very important to To be open to an adventure even if you're not an adventurous person and the Camino is the place for that

Speaker: 9:03

All right. Thank you very much Karen and Buen Camino.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Buen Camino