Vol. 1 Episode 4: Leon - Only Two Hundred Miles To Go!

In this episode, I take some time to answer questions that my wife, Karen, has sent to me. It is the morning of July 23rd, and I am sitting in front of the majestic Leon Cathedral having my second Cappuccino of the day (I should really stick to one-a-day). It's the third week of the pilgrimage--the perfect time to stop and reflect on the journey thus far.

Transcript

 Hello and welcome to another episode of these holy bones a Podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago where the bones of st. James are interred beneath a high altar I'm your host Robert Nerny and today I'm sitting in front of the Cathedral in Lyon an incredibly majestic structure beautiful witness or Yeah witness to the faith of days Long gone, maybe i'm not sure but today what I want to do is i'm going to answer questions That my wife karen back in the states sent me so i'm going to read her question  And i'm going to give my best answer at this point On the pilgrimage so leone marks about 300 miles into the pilgrimage I speak in miles not in kilometers and So I have another 200 but in order to make my flight I'm going to have to take a train for a couple of stages, so I'll miss the next two stages.

And tomorrow morning I'll end up by train in Astorga. And when I get off the train, I will walk one full stage to Rabanal, one of my favorite places on the Camino. I'll stay the night. Hopefully I will interview  The woman that owns the stone boat. I'm not sure what's going to happen there, but that's going to be another story.

So I'm excited about my travels. I find it, this is still a mysterious  and very intriguing type of trek.  Thank you.  Gentleman just gave me a cappuccino. So I'm going to read my wife's questions and I'm going to answer them to the best of my ability and we'll go from there. All right. And Karen, of course.

I always thank you for your input. So her first question is the Camino more of a walk or more of a hike? And I think it's a combination of both. It's not like some hike up Mount Washington or the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Coast Trail.  So it's civilized. At times you do encounter steep hills and you do have to dig in and, but it's definitely not  an athletic event.

It's definitely not an athletic event. Some type of hike that you have to conquer, the landscape. I think the landscape and the trekker or the pellegrino, I think they meet in a very gentle way. And I think that I would definitely categorize this more as a walk, okay, instead of a hike.

Her second question is, what have you learned so far? I've learned, I think, to listen to  other pilgrims. And, To people in general because they have a lot to say and I think the lord wants me to continue to learn about his will  but I think really it's just that's one thing i've learned  I say learned at least i'm cognizant of it.

I don't know if i've learned it  another thing i've learned is that  The lord truly speaks to A person In the everyday happenstance, the people you meet, the places you go, the symbols you encounter. So it's not this  mysterious, gnostic reality. It's very, it's self evident.

It's just that you have to see life through the eyes of faith. And the Lord is constantly speaking to us, and He's constantly calling us  to be loving, attentive pilgrims, on our way to heaven. Amen.  All right. Her third question. I hope I'm doing these questions justice. Who knows at this point,  how does a long walk make you feel?

I'm not really a Walker back home in the States. If I exercise, it's in a gym. I don't tend to get on the treadmill. I'd rather bike. So  I'd say the, a long walk makes me feel calm and  I think reflective.  Definitely there's this incredible internal encounter as I walk these miles. So I'm going to go with calm and also I'm going to go with meditative. 

What's, what is the average length of a day's, of a day's walk on the Camino? The average length, I'd say, is 24 kilometers. It's approximately 13 to 15 miles. I've met a few people.  John, who I hope to interview today, he's from the States. He walked  32 miles yesterday, which is very unusual, but he was determined to get to Lyon, and  he did.

I saw him last night. He looked like he was in great spirits. That's unusual. I'd say that the average pilgrim is walking between 12 and 15 miles a day. That's the average. There's some people who Obviously don't fit into that category like John.  What is the landscape like? We just came to the Meseta, which is a landscape riddled with fields, acres and acres of wheat.

As we approached Leon, it turned into like corn. And but prior to that, with the first few days you're in the mountains, especially the first day you're in the Pyrenees. So the landscape is ever changing. The Meseta is a little repetitive. I love the Meseta because the wheat reminds me of the Eucharist and it's relatively, if not flat, it's, and so you're not encountering a lot of hills.

So the landscape I find intriguing, mysterious, very pleasant, and like I said, ever changing, except maybe we could argue that the Meseta is repetitive and people mention that and they say, there's definitely a challenge  to walk the Meseta, for sure. Five, six, seven days. It takes about seven days to get to Lyon.

Other than that, I think that they would say that it is a pleasant landscape. Next question. How many hours are spent out on the road? I would say between six and ten. Yesterday the people that walked many miles, they were out there, probably over ten, ten hours. And that includes stops for lunch, for water breaks, for bathroom breaks.

So it does include other things. You're not just walking straight. You have to actually stop and smell the sunflowers. And there are beautiful fields of sunflowers on the Meseta, at least this time of year. It says, have you walked in the rain? How do you keep everything dry? So this Camino, it's been relatively pleasant weather.

I did walk in the rain a few days and I have a rain jacket. I still continue to wear my shorts. I don't cover my legs when it rains. And I also have a backpack cover. It's part of my backpack. It's in a bottom zippered bag.  Pouch and I just pull it out and I cover everything so things stay relatively dry What is the best way to prevent or to treat blisters?

This Camino, I've been blessed so far because I haven't had too many blisters I think two and I try to put Vaseline on my feet before I walk in the morning and then as I walk I try to stop one or two times and reapply and then when I do have a a hot spot. I'll apply like a  skin, which is compete, which I really think every pilgrim should have in their pack.

It's just a great material to put over hotspots. Once it's a blister, then it becomes debatable because the the compete definitely sticks. But prior to that hotspot, I think that compete is definitely very helpful. So I've told other people  Vaseline is very important, if not essential.  Do you walk in boots or sneakers?

I walk in oboes. Oboes are hiking shoes. I've worn them on all nine Caminos. And I love the shoe. It has changed a little bit.  And so the newer model is fine though. And I think it's an American company. I could be misspeaking.  But I love oboes. People wear sneakers. I've seen pilgrims in sandals because of blisters. 

I know that People wear Merrells and Keens and all types of shoes, but again, I promote oboes. I think they're a great shoe. They're very durable. They're very comfortable and they fit my foot very well.  What are the churches like? I can't even begin to explain this quote unquote church that I'm sitting in front of.

It is out of control. It's this beautiful  Gothic structure that I'm looking up at  and it's everything a gothic cathedral lover could imagine. It's actually hard to it's impossible to put into words. That's how majestic it is. It's a, it's got flying buttresses. It's got gargoyles. We've got our Lord Jesus Christ on the top of the in this middle section above the massive stained glass window.

Yeah, it's hard to explain. This would be like the pinnacle of churches. As opposed to the small humble church that sits in a, in a pilgrim village or a Camino village. But they're all well,  very well built and they're definitely edifices that express great faith. And it's always a pleasure to walk into these churches along the Camino and  they're always surprising, that's a good question, Karen. And I don't know if I did it justice.  Alright. Do you have to be religious or spiritual to walk the Camino? Absolutely not. This is such a diverse crowd of pilgrims, I think everyone, though, that I meet would defer to some type of spirituality. They would say there's something spiritual.

Even if they're not religious.  They would say there's something spiritual about this. There's something definitely,  Transcendent. They might not use that word, but there's definitely that, that I think that sense there's something greater than us. And this walk is something that is so mysterious.

It's ineffable. It's hard to put into words. And so that's the, that's what I've encountered on this trip. Now, for me, it's totally different for me. I'm a Catholic pilgrim  and I'm on pilgrimage and I'm praying for the intercession of St. James, and I'm praying for my children, my grandchildren, of course my wife, but on this particular Camino I'm praying for all families and all marriages because  that's definitely an issue that needs to be, I think, recognized. 

Alright, do you carry food in your pack? I'm a pathetic pilgrim because I'm the first one to run out of water. And the first one to beg for  a snack from someone. Or when they're not looking, just take their snack and run down the trail screaming. So I'm definitely not the one to ask. But many people do carry food.

They're well prepared, they carry water, and of course I ask them for a sip once in a while. Is it a pilgrim just a tourist? I have to say absolutely not. There's, in this, on this particular day, a lot of pilgrims are taking a day off and they're touring Lyon because it's a beautiful city, but they're still, I think, very conscious of getting to Santiago and of completing this pilgrimage and to, I think they're very conscious also of  I think some cathartic experience which they may not, they may not have at the end.

It might be like, wow, the journey was  really more than than the destination. But as a Catholic, my destination is heaven. So  I think that'll be cathartic to some extent if I ever make it there.  All right. How many pilgrims have you met? Do you tend to see the same pilgrims along the way or meet new ones?

I have met, I can't tell you how many pilgrims I've met. But you do meet them along the way. You sit down, you have coffee with them. You discuss the day, you discuss their lives. It becomes a very familial, it's like a very family oriented type of trip. And that's a cliche that is used. My Camino family, I have A Camino's son, Alessandro, I mean his Camino father, I don't know how that happened.

I don't know if we both got hit in the head with a brick. But, so there is that aspect of the Camino and it's very interesting. And it's it's comical, but it's also,  there's something very real about it. So we care about each other, we share things. The other morning, I needed some type of clean clothing, because I don't do laundry that often.

And Alessandro, he lent me his, one of his shirts and I said, I'm a fat American. He goes no, it'll fit you. And it was a little embarrassing because my stomach was pushing at the material, but  needless to say is it hard to find solitude on the  Sometimes, sometimes, but.

For me, this Camino has been filled with solitude,  and I think the Lord has really provided that for me. And I do I do, at this point, at the 300 mile mark, I do miss home, I miss my wife, I miss seeing my children, my grandchildren, I miss going to the gym in the morning, but I think I'm just at that point, I've been away from home for more than a month, and I'm closing in on Santiago.

Go. And but yeah, I definitely think that that's part of it,  but for me, the solitude, I lost track. I lost my mind just for a second. Yeah, solitude is definitely it's been a big part of my trip. Okay. But also  I've been very social too. These guys I walk with are really funny and we have a good time and it helps to pass the time. 

Is the Camino a healing experience? I think it's incredibly healing. I think that many people are experiencing  deep  healing through their reflection and then I think also through their encounters. I had a woman from Michigan say to me yesterday, Oh, there's mass tonight if you  want to attend.

She goes, I'm not Catholic, but I'm going because it's a blessing. I was like, that's pretty cool.  And yeah.  It's one of those  very mysterious  experiences, I think,  that is wrought with healing. I think if you, if I were to ask ten pilgrims, eight would say yes, it's been healing.  Are you glad you came to walk the Camino?

I think that for me, this is my ninth and my last Camino, I'm always glad to be out here. Sometimes it's a mixed bag because, in this case, my wife is back home. Writing me these questions, and Yeah. I think that's part of it, alright. Have you taken a lot of pictures?

Yeah, I've taken pictures, but  I'm definitely not a photographer. But there's some Gareth and Adam are from New Zealand. I hope to interview them today. They have taken fabulous pictures, and they said if I ever write a book, I can use them. At least one of them for a cover. I have to give them credit.

They're not asking for any euro, which is good. What are the three big obstacles to walking the Camino? I think self doubt  I think you know that we hesitate we think The adventure is beyond us and I think also Just excuses that you know that I can't do it now. My life is  It's too crowded with other things or it's not really that important or so I just think that I Think we get in the way of ourselves  Why do you think the community was so popular?

I think it's so popular because people are in search of Jesus Christ, and they don't know it all I think everyone I've met is searching and  It's concretized in this path to Santiago, you can see the deep desire that people have for meaning. And when I say see, you hear it in the conversations.

And that's they share it. People share that they have this deep unquenchable desire for something and they're looking for it. And they're looking into their cup of cappuccino. Or into their  IPA or into the tortilla that they're eating and And that's it's just I think this search and it's like I said, it's self evident 

What is your budget for this pilgrimage  that one's hard to answer because i'm just i'm like the antithesis to  The guy that budgets and i'm not proud of that and I don't know i'm 61 and I don't think it's going to change I'm almost embarrassed  About how I approach money, but I that's life. I don't see myself  Doing a 1 180 or 360 maybe 360 This is how much a daily expenses on the Camino I would say between 40 euro and 120 euro somewhere in there What could be you know, if you're really frugal it could be maybe 30 euro that's really You pushing it, stretching it.

And then you can stay at some nice places for, 100, 120 euros. So it's a definite range. You'd have to speak to individual pilgrims and see what their budget is.  All right. Last question from my wife, Karen, do you intend to enjoy breaks or would you rather just walk until you get to your daily destination?

Without the breaks, I wouldn't be here. So I'm definitely not.  I have goals for the day. I know that I have to make the stage.  And like I said, I have to take a train in order to make my flight.  So maybe I could have been a little bit more focused. And I'm only going to miss about 45 miles of the hike. 

Or this pilgrimage. But The people I walk with, if they don't like breaks, then they don't like me. Because I'm Mr. Break.  And those are the questions sent by my wife, Karen. I love you. And of course, to you and to all Pilgrims, Buen Camino.