Vol 1. Episode 6: Kiwis Beneath a Blood-Red Moon

In this episode I interview Adam and Gareth from New Zealand who talk about their night hike on the Meseta. The hike was illuminated by the grandeur of a blood-red moon. The two pilgrims completed the hike but not before dealing with the  early morning cold without tents or blankets. Adam and Gareth are a delight to listen to as they share their adventures on the Camino de Santiago. 

Transcript

Hello and welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones, a podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St. James are interred beneath the high altar. I'm your host, Robert Nerney, and today I'm talking to two very interesting gentlemen from New Zealand, Gareth and Adam, and I want to speak to them about their night hike that took place a few nights ago.

I was sitting outside in a cafe,  I was sitting with these two gentlemen and, uh, I thought they were in for the night. It was past 10 p. m. and, uh, I said to them, so what's happened, like, oh, we're leaving, we're going on a night hike. And so this is definitely not the norm on the Camino. I think these are the first two gentlemen, I think, that I've ever met that walked through the night successfully.

A bunch of other ones have tried, but have died. Um, so, without further ado, I'm going to ask Gareth and Adam to introduce themselves and to tell us in some detail about their night hike.  Hey, I'm Gareth. Um, I'm from Auckland, New Zealand, but currently living in the UK in a place called Somerset.  Hello father, I have sinned.

My name is Adam, also known as the Black Cat. I'm here with the Golden Retriever Gareth. We have been doing this Camino now for just over two weeks, originally from New Zealand. Now we're from a little bit of everywhere.  Alright, that sounds good. Alright guys, I mean, I don't know how many, um, how many dudes I've met from New Zealand, but you guys are definitely memorable, and, uh, you are, uh, two pilgrims who attract many other pilgrims, so you're like, I guess, either honey, or one of those clichés.

You're not a cliché, though. So tell, uh, tell me, first of all, why a night hike? You know, so what was the provocation and then tell me in some detail you guys can share the mic But tell me in some detail what you went through and was it something that was uh, you know worth doing Would you recommend it to other pilgrims?

I know the weather was pleasant You had a the moon was up and uh, it was a pleasant evening. Although I do know that you suffered some Early morning chills. So just get into that for me and try to express what you went through  Yeah, no, um, so You  When you're out, like, in the middle of nowhere, away from civilization, you don't have the light pollution.

In New Zealand, we have like a, like a light reserve area called Lake Tekapo. Um, where  There's very minimal light from the town there, and so they've got an observatory that looks out at the stars.  We figured that if we're going to be going between these towns, and they're relatively small, there's not going to be a massive amount of light pollution, so we should get a really good view of the stars. 

Unfortunately, it was a full moon on the night that we were walking, which means that you get reflective light from the sun from the moon, so you can't actually see the stars in the Milky Way as much as we would have liked to. However,  When we started our walk, the moon was rising behind us, and there was this beautiful blood moon coming up over the town, and the moon looked huge.

Um, we tried taking some photos, but it just does not do it justice, you'd have to see it for yourself. Um,  yeah, and it was just, it was just incredible to do. But, Knowing that we had this full moon behind us, we didn't need any kind of torches or light sources for ourselves. We could just walk in the light of the moon the whole way, um, and that in itself was beautiful.

Um, I mean, we could always do another night walk at some other time and see the stars, but we would definitely need some kind of, you know, Tortures at that point, I think. Yeah.  So in summary, we did it all for the gram. And I think appropriately, you know, we've done this with very little planning. We didn't even check that it was going to be a full moon when we planned to do the night hike.

We woke up and we thought, you know what? We've had a bit of a rest day in the hotel. If we do a casual 20, and then walk through the night, we can catch up with our other friends. And that was more or less our motivation.  Crocs make a great, uh, tripod for your phone. Um, but once it gets dark, like Gareth said, the photos just do it.

No justice at all.  I will also say, like,  we're doing this in the middle of, um, July, which is basically peak summer, so during the day it's getting up to 35 degrees. The humidity's low out here, which is great, so you're not sweating a massive amount.  Um, when you're staying in the albergues and stuff at night over here, it feels really warm inside those rooms and you just want it to be a little bit colder. 

When you're out there walking, even though it's peak summer, it is freezing in the Meseta. Um, like, I think it got down to ten degrees by like three, four AM. Like, when we took our little nap in the park, it was about ten degrees and it's the wind chill factor that gets you and makes it feel even colder.

Um,  yeah, but we had like  For me, I had two t shirts on and a jumper.  I have no long pants with me, just a pair of shorts. And I was walking in some jandals, um, and Adam showed me a way that you can tie a t shirt around your head, uh, which he'd learned on the farms when he was younger. So I had like this t shirt around my head, almost like a turban, and this hat on, just to keep us warm while we're walking, which was, it was good. 

And what we thought, because, you know, in the Meseta, the roads are so long and straight, and there's a couple of times a car would come past us, and you know, with no light pollution, you can see them all the way out on the horizon. And so what we'd do is we'd sort of stand in a driveway to let this car go past, and we'd say, and it's a little bit like a horror film, if you'd seen us there, all sort of scruffy in the middle of the night, not expecting to see two crazy pilgrims walking along, you know, maybe that's the script for a good horror movie.

Well, I'll take that into consideration because I don't write horror, but maybe going forward I will. All right. Very good. I do have a few questions. I'm going to just like, uh, staccato, you know, like staccato fashion. My wife sent me some questions I think are interesting. And so just ask you and just give me your first,  just shoot from the hip.

All right. So we'll just go back and forth. So I'll ask a question, Adam, you answer, then Gareth, you answer, then we'll go back. To a question. All right. So  is the Camino more of a walk or more of a hike?  Uh, it is definitely  That's a hard question, what would we call this? It's like going to the corner store for some milk. 

Uh, Uh, I'm not much of a hiker. Um, I'd say the first third of this trip was definitely what I would consider hiking. It's, you're going up and down hills all day, every day. That's tough work. When you get to the Meseta, it's, it's a long walk. Um, it's very flat. It's, um, very meditative. And  It's hot, but it's, it's both.

Yeah. But hiking, we'll say it's hiking. What have you learned so far on this particular Camino? So we've walked 300 miles, uh, from Burgos. I mean, from, um, St. Jean Pied de Port. And so what have you learned?  If anything,  I think the biggest learning for me is we're all on the same path, which is relatively well signposted with little yellow arrows.

So you know where to go, but despite walking the same trail, We're all lost in our own ways. And a lot of times I think that's really humbling for me. It's been more about the feeling, just so grateful to be outside the email factory, experiencing the nature and meeting people along their own way. Yeah.

For me, um, like the whole reason of coming on this Camino, like  it was just to come along with Adam, cause I know he'd wanted to do it for a few years. Um,  for me, it was the challenge, like purely because I knew it'd be hard and  It's outside of my comfort zone, like, I'm not someone who would go walking, um, long distances or hikes a lot, um, and just seeing how quickly my body's adapted to being able to, like, when you start, a 20km day seemed like absolutely huge to me and then a 25 seemed massive.

Um, and now we do 20 kilometers like it's a rest day and we've hit days where we've done 40, 45, and it's, it's, it's great just to see your body adapting and going through those challenges and just embracing that challenge. I think that's probably the most important thing for me here. Um,  anybody, anybody and everybody's probably said this, but the people you meet along the way are fantastic.

Um, they're incredible. Yeah, that's the funny thing about the Camino. If at home. I were to walk 10k, I'd be like looking for a ribbon or something. Here on the Camino, if you tell someone you walk 10k, they're like, are you hurt? Is something wrong? Are you depressed? And you say all three. All right. Next question.

Is the Camino a healing experience in any form or fashion? For me, I think the Camino is more about growth rather than sort of trying to get back to the point you were. It's about trying to get beyond that and experience a new lease on life. Yeah, I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head there. Um, physically, you'll feel a bit broken.

I mean, my feet struggle some of these days with the blisters and everything. I'm learning every single day about how to deal with the blisters and how to manage my, like, foot health. Um, But like, spiritually, emotionally, um, pushing through that, those like, pain barriers every day and pushing yourself a bit further.

Um, I think it's definitely about growing as a person, um, and you've got a lot of time to think. And so You can just process all the ideas that you've got in your mind and just kind of clear out the old, um, that isn't serving you very well. And, um, figure out what you want to do going forwards and just, it gives you time to just sit down and think and plan and, or not sit down, walk and plan.

Yeah. What about, um, why do you think this path is so popular? So in 2019, uh, the numbers at the Pilgrim's office in Santiago were like, over 300, 000 people had registered at that office at the end of 2019. And then we had COVID of course. And so 2020 was a down year as far as numbers. But, um, I don't, and I don't know the numbers now.

I mean, I can check it at the end of the year, but, uh, why do you think this is such a popular track? You know, one thing that surprised me on this journey is so many of the European countries are familiar with the Camino in New Zealand. When we said that we were going to go and walk across Spain, everyone wondered what we were doing.

No one's heard of this. And so I can't really answer why it's so popular. I mean, for us, it was just reading a book, having the idea and thinking, wow, imagine if we could do that from the place where we started, you know what I mean? And so.  That's all I got.  Yeah, I think, um, like, in New Zealand, the hiking culture is massive over there.

There's a lot of great walks in New Zealand. Um, if you like hills and walking, New Zealand's the place for you. It's tough, um, the humidity's gonna ruin you as well. Um,  but I think, like, I'm not a hiker. I'm a spiritual person, but not religious. Um, and I think there's something out there that everybody can kind of, find a piece of themselves in, um,  you can push yourself like me.

I'm doing it as the, there's the physical challenge, but there's the spiritual challenge there as well. Um, and just going and seeing the beauty of a new country, new culture, the people you meet along the way, there's so much you can gain from doing it. Um,  and life is about all those experiences and Just enjoying the process and like me and Adam on this trip.

We're we're not here to reach the destination of Santiago we're here for the journey and we're here to see what we learn the people we meet and Enjoying that process of it and when we reach Santiago That's great. But it's the whole process of leading up to it that's actually the gem. That's where  the real meaning comes in.

Yeah.  Yeah, Garrett, that really resonates with me because  the, uh, Caminos I've walked before, it's definitely the journey and, uh, whatever that means to you, you know, because we're all different sometimes. Like in the case of my wife and myself, you know, you would find us In the back of a cab or maybe in the middle of a bus.

And, uh, for us that didn't detract from our journey, that's who we are. And, uh, it might've been for me a little, it was humbling, but that's what I probably needed. So that resonates the journey is important. And I remember in 2016. When I first got to Santiago, because in 2015 we didn't make it, it was almost anticlimactic.

Um, and, uh, it  wasn't as cathartic. I thought, you know, my head was going to pop or something, but that didn't happen, you know? And so, um, I hope people, you know, find what they're looking for. All right. I have a couple of pragmatic questions. What would you say is a, um,  the budget of a daily walk for this communal?

Like maybe what, you know, maybe for you, what, what, what do you spend per day or maybe what do you think a pilgrim has to spend in order to complete a stage? I guess it's hard for us because we sort of tag team the expenses one day he'll pay one day I'll pay Some days we stay at the albergues which you know can range between 10 euros to 20 Some days we uh splash out a little bit for that air conditioning And, uh, get ourselves a hotel.

In terms of meals, like, if you're looking to save money on the cost, what we would do is go to the supermarket, buy a couple of protein shakes, some rice crackers, and some chorizo sausage, which the, uh, Italians don't really appreciate us eating it, but, uh, With our hands and not chopping it into fine slices, but hey, it's a way of getting through to the end.

Uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, I think Adam missed out the most important MVP of, um, the supermarket, and that is Aquarius. Do you buy one of the like 1.5 liter bottles of Aquarius and that's gonna get you through the day? Like, well, you probably get three or four of 'em actually. 'cause you'll be sweating a bit and that's just gonna, it gives you the minerals and the hydration you need.

Um, which is fantastic. But yeah, I mean.  What, groceries, a meal between two of us, and then accommodation, um. Like, Spain's actually very affordable compared to other areas of Europe I've been in. Um, even buying alcohol and stuff. It's, it's not overly expensive, and you can do it cheap, and you can do it a bit bougier as well, um.

It can be anywhere from like 40 euros to a hundred. It just depends on what your kind of your, your budget is. Um, and that's like per day. You could probably go cheaper. You can buy cheaper food. Um, it's, it's definitely available to everybody in the albergues. If you want to go cheaper on the accommodation.

Yeah. It's like 10 to 15 euros, um,  per night. And then you've got your food. It's, it's, it's definitely very doable for people. Um, we actually, we met a guy who, um,  He went to the albergue and then offered to help clean for an hour in the morning and they let him stay for the night. So, you know, think outside the box.

There's ways you can do it.  Alright gentlemen, last question. You go back to New Zealand, you're in a pub, you see a friend, and he says, Hey mate,  but he says, uh, I heard you went on this thing called the Camino. What is it about? Tell me about it, and should I go?  You know, the funny thing is, just before this podcast, we got a message on Instagram saying, I hold out to see your stories every day, cause people are just enjoying getting lost in your stories.

in our experience. And being able to share that through social media has been really, really great. What I would say to them is, you know, we went into this, we've got the map, we've not done any planning, we've not seen any of the photos, and I think that's the way to go. Like Gregory David Roberts said, like there's a special kind of luck reserved for those who sort of clear their mind of ambition.

And I think that's very much what we've done. Every sort of place we go, we get new allies and new friends and, you know, I think that's, for me, has been the best part of the experience, so I wouldn't spoil it for them and say, Hey, you know, it's a challenge for sure. Get yourself some good toe socks, enjoy the talcum powder of the gods, and, uh, you know, just make a start.

That's all you gotta do. Yeah, those toe socks are a lifesaver for your feet. Um, like, Like I said, I'm not a hiker. I had no idea what I was getting into.  Get some good shoes, uh, or a good pair of jandals like I'm wearing now because you might see all the good and the fun stuff on like Instagrams and the stories, but you're doing six to eight hours of walking a day.

Like it's, it's hard work. Mentally, it's a challenge, but like Adam said,  It's going to be what you make out of it and we wouldn't want to spoil it for you. You'll get something out of doing it and you can just enjoy that process. Um, and you're going to learn a lot from it. Um, but I'd, I'd recommend anybody to go and do it now.

Guys, I really appreciate this interview. You're the best. And of course, going forward.  Buen Camino.  Buen Camino. Buen Camino.