These Holy Bones: Volume 2 - Episode 1: A Debrief of My Latest Camino or An Introduction to Season 2

This is the first episode of volume two of the podcast. In this episode, my wife, Karen, helps me to debrief after my tenth Camino, a walk of two hundred miles that included the Meseta-my favorite section of the Camino Frances. This was by far the most intense pilgrimage of the ten that I've walked--probably because I'm getting older and the joints are a bit more worn than in the past. My wife asks some good questions that help me reflect on another Camino. I hope you enjoy listening. Buen Camino!

Transcript

Volume 2-Episode 1: A Debrief of Camino #10

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones. A podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St. James are interred beneath the high altar. I'm your host, Robert Nerney, and today I start volume two of my podcast, and volume two will cover this interview.

And then a host of other interviews I conducted over the past several weeks while on the Pilgrims’ Road to Santiago. So today, this format, I like this format…my wife is going to ask me questions about my most, recent pilgrimage-the tenth. And, we'll have a conversation about this pilgrimage.

It'll also act, as an introduction to this volume. And I think I got over 20 interviews while out in the road. And, the pilgrims are from different countries with different [00:01:00] stories. I think you'll find it interesting--some more than others, maybe.

But I think everyone has something to say in these interviews. I'm happy that you're joining us today. This episode is being sponsored by Ocean Magic Surf and Skateboard Superstore in Jupiter, Florida. Whether you're dropping in on your first wave or you're a seasoned shredder. Ocean Magic has everything you need from high performance surfboards and skate decks to premium wetsuits, beach wear, and all the gear in between.

Skaters, ocean Magic has trucks, wheels, bearings, complete setups, and all the latest brands. Surfers check out Ocean Magic's, epic selection from fire wire lost O'Neill, and more heading to the beach. Grab stylish swimwear, sun protection, and flip flops all in one spot. Ocean Magic has expert staff to help you pick out your surfing and skating needs.

So you'll get advice from people who know what they're talking about. Swing by ocean magic and Jupiter, just minutes from the water, ocean [00:02:00] magic, surf, and skate. Florida's home for all things, surf, skate, and stoke. Check it out. 

She is sleeping. I just woke her up. I'm sorry. All right Karen, go ahead. You ask me your questions. You always write great questions. 

So this was your 10th Camino and I've been on the Camino four times. I prefer to stay home because I'm a real homebody. This question just popped into my head.

Do you ever feel at home on the Camino? If yes, describe why and if no tell when you're at home in Rhode Island, what does that feel like? 

Well, I don't know if I ever feel entirely at home. I would say that there are moments wherein I feel like, you know, okay, I belong here.What I'm doing is what God wants me to do. You know, there are moments like that, not the entire time, but when I'm deep in prayer, and I'm walking alone and I feel like I'm really communing with God and the penance of the road is part of that prayer, then I feel, okay, I should be out here.

So, but never, I, I definitely [00:03:00] feel like, um, not at home, you know, in, in, uh, in a bed, in a hot El Burge when it's, you know, 95 degrees in the room and there, and there, there are snoring pilgrims, including myself. Um, no, I don't, I don't really oftentimes feel at home and this. A particular pilgrimage, uh, was a pilgrimage of like, you know, some profound homesickness.

I really felt, um, I felt the, uh, the absence of home. You know, you do often talk about the Camino and prayer and the kind of prayer that you, um, experience on the Camino, how deep it is and how, um, long it is, and, uh, the penance that goes along with it. Do you ever reach that prayer and penance level at home?

You know, that's a good question. I would say no, I would say that the, uh, the road is conducive to that. It's for me for that deep to that, um, conducive to that deep prayer. And also it's coupled with, uh, with the rhythm of walking, you know? So it's a, I don't, no, I, I don't know. It's a, it's different for me.

So, um, yes, I pray at home, of course, but, uh, I don't think I. It's, it's different. I, it's really hard for me to, to, uh, qualify or, or even quantify. I, I would think the hours spent on the Camino, you [00:04:00] know, uh, I spent a lot of time in prayer, you know, I mean, I spent a lot of time making jokes too, and laughing.

But that's a, that's a whole nother episode. Okay. So who did you meet on this past Camino that made a dramatic impact on your interior journey? I think, uh, I'd have to say John Paul, a lawyer from Argentina, he was such a gentle, a gentle soul, and, uh, he was very receptive to talking to me about his, uh.

About his Camino. He was just a really, really nice person. And, um, I saw him a few times waved to him. He was just always very pleasant and I thought, I mean, he definitely made an impact on me. I just, it was like one of those, um, encounters that God has in store for you, which is a very pleasant conversation.

He's on the podcast actually, and, uh. I saw him a few times. We had dinner together, like, you know, P pizza or something, something simple. And, uh, we spent time, more time talking about, you know, about God and about the com Oh, and about, about life. It was just a very, it was a very pleasant encounter. It. Uh, now when you talk about the Camino, there are lots of stories like this, people that made a difference, um, that made you think about things that had an impact on impact on you and on your life and on your prayer.

Um, how long do you think the effects of the Camino [00:05:00] last in general? Well, in my case, about 10 minutes. So this year I'm really trying to, I'm really trying to hold on to what I've learned and I'm, I'm trying to bring it back home with me and trying to live out the camino here for, which just means, I mean, that sounds almost like, like a cliche.

It just means that I want to have a prayerful life and I want to. I want to, uh, focus on the things that I often talk about on the communal, like, you know, the things I value, like writing and like podcasting. And I want to really, uh, focus on those things that I feel God is calling me to, um, you know, to do.

And so, one this Camino, it was really writing like God's saying you're a writer, right? You know, and stop talking about writing. So I really wanna bring though, um. You know, that interior conversation, I wanna bring it to some fruit back here, back in the States, and I want to hopefully, uh, continue to have a, um, a robust prayer life.

So, I don't know as far as how long I would say I wanted to, I wanted, I want to, um, hold onto the, uh, what I feel are the insights and hopefully the changes that took place on the road. Okay, so you talk about writing. So tell me about the book that you're writing, [00:06:00] this piece of fiction about the Camino, and now that you've finished your 10th Camino, are you more likely or less likely to complete and publish it, this book on the Camino that you're writing?

And why or why not? Well, I would say I am more likely to publish it. Um, I've, I've told, or I told a, a, a number of pilgrims that I've written a book on the Camino, that it's not through the, uh, traditional travel log, but it's a piece of fiction that I conceived of in 2016. So it's only been nine years. So, uh, you know, most people take at least oh nine.

Actually, that's a long time. So I think it's time for this project to, uh, come to completion. Actually, today I went out to Staples and. And I, um, you know, I, I printed a copy so that I can get to work tomorrow on it. Um. I, so it's, it's a story about three juveniles that go on the Camino to get, uh, their sentences commuted.

And it's a story about, um, their parole officer who comes up with this idea, you know, and the parole officer's, uh, father had walked the Camino. So it's this. Domino effect. You know, one person walks to Camino, then their son walks to Camino, then he takes three juveniles and who knows what happens. And that kind of is the, um, the nature of the Camino.

It's like, you know, word of mouth. Like you [00:07:00] talk to a pilgrim and you ask, why are you here? Well, I have a cousin that did it, and she said I would really enjoy it. So I thought it was time to, to, to, you know, check it out, to check Spain out or my, you know, my, uh. My parents did it, or they do it every year on bike or something like that.

So especially the Spanish. The Spanish, it's a part of their, it's a big part of their culture. You know, they hear about the Camino from day one, you know, so, um, yeah, that's the project. I mean, it's completed. Say for, I would think, um, a few more revisions that ti I wanna tighten up the pros. I want to develop the characters a little bit more.

I actually have the ending. The ending is, has been, has changed. That changed on the Camino this year, so I conceived of a different ending, which I'm going to. Uh, so I'm gonna rewrite the ending and, uh, yeah, that's it. Okay, so this was again, was your 10th Camino. So we can acknowledge this idea that it's inherently a great way to spend the summer.

Right? Um, but what is difficult about it and why do you think it is, um, difficult? These particular things that you think are difficult? How do you cope with them? Well, as I get older, you know, my physicality is a, is an issue. Like, so I have [00:08:00] two, you know, um, hip replacements. So this, after a certain amount of miles, I, I really, instead of getting stronger, I start to break down a little bit.

So I. That's one difficulty. So near the end of the Camino, this year, we walked 200 miles. Um, I definitely felt the effects. I, I couldn't keep pace with the other two gentlemen. Um, I mean, I made it to the, uh, Berga, but on the last week we did 14 miles. 16 miles, 18 miles, then 12 and a half, and 12 and a half.

And the 18 miler was very difficult. I mean, I was really struggling. Plus it was very warm. It was probably in the nineties. When we walked, um, the, the, uh, 18 miler, um, if not the nineties, it was the high eighties, but it was definitely warm. Um, also, I missed you and I missed home and I missed, um, yeah, I, I was homesick and uh, you know, this was one of my shorter ones actually, but it felt.

Uh, it, I felt the, um, it felt long, it felt like it was a long, a long haul. Um, so mileage wise, 200, you know, as opposed to 500, or last summer I did 400. So, but it just, uh, as I get older, um, it does, it takes more of an effort to do the walk. And, uh, and I, I intentionally skipped, you know, this year I skipped some very difficult parts and, uh.

To my benefit because I don't know if I would've been able to do certain [00:09:00] parts of, uh, the Fran this year. So when you talk about the Camino, a lot of times you tell funny stories, interesting stories, stories from people, um, that you've heard from different parts of the world. Um, but then when you talk about the difficult parts of the Camino, the parts of those difficult things that I can certainly relate to, I say to myself, why 10 times?

Why do you keep going back? You know, what's the draw? How does it affect others in your life? Or is it only about the pilgrim that travels? Like what's this whole thing, what's going on? Well, if I didn't have a, um, you a, a wife and children and grandchildren, it might just be about the pilgrim that travels.

But no, um, you, um, carry the brunt of all the responsibilities when I'm going. And so it does fall on your shoulders and that's difficult for you. And then, uh, you know, I don't see my children. And, um, I don't see my grandchildren, so, um, no, it's not just about me, but I rationalize it. Hopefully that's in quotes.

By saying that I'm gonna spend it in prayer. And this particular pilgrimage was very, very prayerful. I mean, I [00:10:00] went to mass every day because I was walking with two Dominican priests from Washington, DC and they said mass, either in the morning or mid or at midnight, they'd wake me up at 20 of 11. I'm sorry, 12, 20 of 12.

We'd have midnight mass and go back to bed. Um, but no, of course it's not just about me. That's, that's not even life. I mean, it's about us. It's about our children and our grand grandchildren and other people. It's about, you know, I was praying for our dead, dead relatives, your parents, my parents. And um, so it's a communion of, of saints and of sinners.

And so, uh, no, I think that it's always about, you know, about more than just the, the, the person. It's about our relationships and, um, that you get to heaven, um, through relationships. You don't get to heaven by yourself. So, um. Yeah. No, I, I would say it's, it's beyond the singular and it's definitely a plural and it impacts more than one person.

It impacts you. It impacts my kids. It impacts, or our kids impacts our grandkids. I know they miss me terribly. Um, especially Isla probably crying every night. Where's Papa? Or at least that guy that looks like Papa. Um, yeah. So you speak of this connectedness of the human family, and, and you can see that when I've gone on the Camino with you, the way you reach out to people, even if there's a [00:11:00] language barrier and you're trying to communicate with them back and forth and how important that is to you.

But I also notice in my life with you that humor is really a big part of it. So what's the funniest story you can think of, um, from this pastino? Well, I thought initially, um, I mean, father Jerome said, you know, Robert, you, you fool around way too much. And I said, uh. You haven't seen the half of it. So I think that, uh, he was a little horrified at, um, at my propensity toward, I don't know.

I just see life through a, a cracked lens. I think at, and I'm the cracked lens. So I, I don't know. I, I just see a lot of humor in life and because. Because the victory is one. Christ won the victory for us on the cross. I mean, I just, I'm, and that's a joyful, you know, it's a joyful thought, but I just see, I think probably because of, um, I grew up in a family of seven.

We were, we didn't have a lot, and so at least we had humor and I was always looking. To make a joke. People say, oh, you need attention. Not really. I just, I do it more for my own benefit than for others. 'cause I just find humor in life. And then I'm, you know, there's, I can be dark about things too. That's not a good thing.

[00:12:00] But, um, on this, I think on this particular pilgrimage, the, just the daily conversations, there was a lot of humor in, uh. Our, our conversations. So I, I don't know if, if there's any one particular instance that was the most humorous, but I'll have to think about that. Okay, so the next thing I wanna ask is about scary moments on the Camino.

I remember being on the Camino and experiencing and hearing about a lot of scary moments, and you even tend find humor in those moments. I don't personally, but I can see that you do, um, in my experiences with you. But so like, when you think of scary moments in the Camino, you know, you think of, you know, severe allergic reactions and not sure if you're gonna get to, um, you know, some kind of a, a doctor soon enough.

Or, um, you're walking, you get lost, getting late. Uh, are you gonna get an El Berger to stay in that night? Um. You get separated from the people that you're walking with. You've lost your cell phone, you've lost your past, but things can happen and you're walking. So it's a little bit different. For you. This past Camino, were there any scary moments and if in particular, can you think of the scariest moment?

Well, I [00:13:00] think, uh, one of the most unsettling or disquieting moments was, uh, at a midnight mass and I was the one usually asking for permission. I'd go to the, uh, person in charge and say. You know, I'm walking with two Catholic priests. I would translate this through, uh, Google Translate and uh, is there a place they can, they can say mass, we'd ask and they'd say, of course, you can say it here, there, there's always a little place.

You know, they didn't need a lot of room to say mass, and so this one particular alberga, we didn't ask, I didn't ask, and it was a midnight mass. The bunks were upstairs. We were out on a patio by ourselves, bothering no one. And, uh, this gentleman who worked there, um, came into the space and was very, very upset.

Or he showed like, you know, definitely some, a little, like some aggression toward us saying that this is not gonna happen here. And he told us to get out and he put one of the kindles out that was on the altar. You know, the makeshift altar. And, uh, we just, we were just, the three of us were just looking at the guy and thinking, this is really crazy.

And he, uh, wouldn't let up, but the gentleman in charge said to him, leave them alone. Leave them alone. And so, and he did, but at that moment, and it was, you know, maybe 5, 6, 7 [00:14:00] seconds. Maybe a little longer. It was very, very, um, disquieting. We were in the middle of mass now. We were at, I think, the liturgy of the word.

So they hadn't started consecration yet. I think Father Jerome was saying mass. And then, uh, and we were whispering. We were whispering mass because, um, we, we didn't wanna disturb anyone, so it wasn't like we were disturbing anyone who was sleeping. Like I said, they were upstairs. That was, um, it was disquieting.

It was, uh. Upsetting and, um, yeah, I, out of all the things that happened to us, I would, and we spoke about it a lot. We were like, what is that? You know, what the heck was that about? Okay, so, and it's obviously part of your memory, so you get, you know, funny stories, scary stories. Um, what about memorable things like in terms of scenery?

Because I can remember not even always knowing where on the Camino I saw things, but sometimes I would just see, you know, beautiful sunrises or sunsets or. Beautiful wildlife or beautiful animals, uh, roaming the, um, mountainside or the sun, you know, coming in and out behind the clouds and casting like, you know, almost gold on the view depending on the time of day.

Um, and so sometimes those. Visual things will just pop up in my mind and remind me of the Camino and what it meant to me, um, and the times [00:15:00] that I've been, and I don't even tend to be very visual in my mind. So I know that you do. So do you have any marable scenes scenery that you noticed on this past Camino?

Well, this year we, we, uh, started in Virgo. So we walked through the, which is, uh. You know, technically I think it's bigger than this, but it's Virgos to Leone. Some people I've read where they say Virgos to histor and then south of that too. But, uh, this year now usually, so it's wheat and sunflowers and, uh, the wheat had already been cut down, I think for the most part.

And, uh. It had been, you know, bailed. So it was hay. And then, but this year the sunflower fields were vast. I mean, like, I've never seen anything like it acre upon acre of sunflower. We've seen sunflower fields in, in the past, and we have a picture of one hanging on a wall, you know, a living room. But Karen, these were like so vast.

It was unbelievable. And Father John Baptist would say, I don't there any birds here. Back home, these flowers would be devastated. But, um, I don't know if they, if there are birds on the macada, they have great restraint. Um, so [00:16:00] I would say the sunflower fields were the most, uh, awe inspiring and, uh, they were just beautiful.

I love sunflowers. Yeah, and I love Sun Paulo seeds too, if you have any. I think they're awesome up in the cupboard, but the sunflowers are abso. Um, absolutely beautiful. I do agree. Um, you talked about the most of the wheat being cut down, and I know from my memories of the Maita, sometimes it can just look like the road is never going to end and different parts.

Camino as well. I mean, at home I'm usually like checking my phone, checking the app, you know, how many steps and how many miles is that equate to. But when you're out on the road, initially it's kind of fun and you get into a rhythm and you know, but sometimes in the really long days or the really hot days or the days that you're experiencing a new bl, experiencing a new blister or a new pain, or you're just tired, you know, or you're just extra thirsty that day.

Um. It can be very challenging to look and to see whe when will the next cafe be? Or how far do I really have to go? Or why does this road seem so long? What do you think is the biggest challenge that would tend to be mine? No, that's always a challenge. Okay. So like, you know, as far as like getting to the next place, um, this year one of my [00:17:00] challenges was I actually wore, um, a light, a light meno sneaker first time.

Usually I wear oboes, which is like a hiking shoe, which is very stable. Um, but I heard from a few people that you should wear something light that's breathable. You shouldn't wear goretex. Um, that is, you know, it, uh, is weatherproof or rainproof. Um, so I was like a little concerned about my choice of footwear and, um.

I did, I always tend toward blisters because the way I strike and I have arthritic feet so they don't strike, you know, the way I strike my foot strikes the earth, uh, tends to produce blisters, but I use Vaseline at least twice a day, sometimes three times a day, and even when I got blisters. I wouldn't, I wouldn't wrap them, uh, in compe or bandages.

I, I would just like, you know, put the, uh, like gobs of Vaseline over the blisters. And so I, I probably had one, I probably had about six, you know, four to six blisters, uh, especially on my toes and one of my on my left, uh, kinda like the heel, right? Uh, right of the heel. Um, and so that, uh. So that, you know, that worked out pretty well.

And why was that? Is that the first time you did that? It was the first time I was consistent with Vaseline. I would stop and, but even after though, I thought you always, after the Vaseline, that you would go to the Compe. Why did you choose just to stick with the Vaseline? Well, first of all, um, I, [00:18:00] the compe that I had bought here in the States, the adhesive wasn't very good.

Oh, okay. So I said, well, I can't use this. So probably because this stuff wasn't. Wasn't, uh, sticking. So I just stuck, I just stuck with the, uh, the Vaseline, you know, that was, uh, yeah. So I'd say the blisters are always a problem. And then just that, that, uh, that challenge of trying to keep your feet, um, you know, in decent shape so that you can get up and walk again the next day.

Right. Okay. So let's switch gears for a moment. Um, so when you, um, arrived in Santiago, you had, how many days before you were gonna start home? We arrived the 20th and I was gonna leave on the 26th. Okay. And then when you did fly out of Santiago. You ended up in Dublin for 18 hours and then from there you went to Boston, but there was a, there was at least one or two delays on your flight, and then you arrived in Providence and then I picked you up and then you arrived home.

So it's quite a journey starting on the Monday. Absolutely. And coming home on the Tuesday night, which was almost into the next day in Spain. So. How did you feel along that journey of trying to get home and when did you, when did you start to feel like, did the [00:19:00] homesickness lessen, and did you not feel like you were home until you were in the apartment?

Or did you feel like you were home when you got to Dublin, or when you got to Boston, or when you arrived in Providence? When did you feel like you were home? Well, I mean, I always, um, I don't love to fly. Okay. So I didn't really feel at least, um, settled until Boston. And then I said, oh, at least I'm taking, now I'm taking a train.

I love the train. And I'm saying, well, that could derail too. So I was, I always have these really, um, I, I would say like, you know, these. These bright, wonderful thoughts about travel. So yeah, no, it, the whole way was kind of like, I felt like an, you know, like, um, like an alien, you know, someone who didn't fit in, uh, until I got, you know, back to Providence and I saw you and the train didn't derail and the planes, the, you know, the jet stayed in the air.

And actually my flights were really very, very, uh, pleasant. You know, the flight from DC Oh, from Providence. To DC it was fine. And DC the Madrid was five hours. And then from Santiago to Dublin was a really smooth flight. And that there was, it was, uh, populated by a lot of Irish because we were going to Dublin, and when we landed, everyone erupted in applause.

And I, I enjoyed that. And then from. Dublin to [00:20:00] Boston. It was long because, um, he had to go north 'cause they had this really strong headwind, a hundred miles an hour. But, uh, it was very, very smooth, like no turbulence at all. And, uh, so it was a, a smooth, it was a long flight, but as far as your question goes, I didn't really feel like I was home.

And so I was home. Okay. It's almost like a Hobbit thing, right? You know what I mean? The Shire isn't the Shire until it's the Shire. Okay. So all these things you talk about, there's always some challenges that you have to meet, you know, planning for it during it, and then even on the way home. So will you go back for an 11th time on the Camino?

Well, if I do like the next one, if I do, I, I'm just thinking, you know, I've promised our granddaughter that. I would take her when she's 10. Um, and it would, if I do, it would have to be supported by other people. I couldn't just take her by myself. And it would be a very mellow, even though it would be a little extended, like, so it might be a 12 day trip.

'cause you could do, you could do sorry to Santiago. You could do it in four days. Right. You don't have to. But if you [00:21:00] spread it out. You know, it might be like six miles a day, seven miles a day, and you could stay at, uh, you can stay in private rooms, you could stay in hotels. So it would definitely be a different type of, uh, Camino if I do it, if that happens.

Um. I really want to, uh, really, um, complete a lot of projects that I've started. And so I have, you know, especially writing projects, I, I really want to have a year that's filled with writing and of course podcasting. So today, I can't say for sure if like next year is a Camino year. If it is, you know, it would be with our, our granddaughter.

Um, so I, I don't know. It's hard to say. Okay. What gets easier with each Camino? You know, it all gets harder. It doesn't, there's nothing easier about it. This year was very difficult. Everything about it was more difficult. Um, the finances, the, my body, um, the travel, you know, like I said, the flights were, were fine, but for me, traveling is very difficult.

Uh. Nothing was, nothing gets easier. Um, I'd have to think about that. Um, but yet here you sit promoting the Camino through this podcast because of your love for the Camino. Right. So I'm, I'm, I'm answering from my [00:22:00] perspective. I think a person has not gone on the Camino, um. For the first time. I, I would definitely, you know, encourage that now for the 10th time if they're, you know, if they wanna spend some time in, in a padded room with me, then sure.

I, I definitely promote that. In general, what would you say about the kinds of people that are called to the Camino? Well, I find that the people that I meet are definitely seeking something. Uh, they, they have that question like, where's the meaning in life? And I want it, I want to try to find it. So I would say that the majority of people that I meet are seekers and, uh, you know, I, you know, I, we would say they're seeking Jesus and they don't know it.

And then some people do know they're seeking Jesus and they're looking for him. And, uh, you know, our God is a hidden God and you have to go on journey to find him. So it's not like. He doesn't appear to most of us, you know, um, but he's there. You just, you have to, you have to be, uh, purposeful and you have to be diligent and, uh, intentional about finding God.

And how would you explain the joy of the [00:23:00] Camino even on the days where things aren't going according to plan or there's a little bit of suffering involved? I think the joy is in understanding that we are in exile. And that exile is, um, is not pleasant. And that we're not home. And there's joy in that.

Joy in knowing, I know I'm not home. I know I'm not in the arms of God, you know, and so I'm not resting, um, in the bosom of Abraham. And so I know that, and that's a great grace and I appreciate, I mean, I really, I'm very, um, thankful for that grace. So I think the road can concretize. That reality and because there are so many different things that you lack on the road.

You know, I look around this office and I look at all these books. I mean, I definitely, if I could have, I would've taken all of them on the road with me, but that's not really feasible. Um, so. I think that's the great greatest. It's almost a paradox, you know? It's like you ask, you know, what's the best part?

The best part is the worst part. The best part is that I know I'm not home, that, uh, I'm in exile and that, um, it sounds like a very Irish answer. Irish or a Russian answer. I know I'm not home, you know, and that the pain is the beauty. And I'm glad that I have no legs and I'm dragging [00:24:00] myself across Spain, you know?

So you talk about the road the Camino, the trail, the way what would you say? because we know it's a very interior journey, but yet a lot of times what's happening, you know, under your feet or around you, the people that you're meeting, it has to do a lot with what's going on in inside, I think, at least in my experience.

So what kind of a trail is your favorite trail and why? Well, there's no doubt, when we left Burgos and we finally got to that dirt path that I consider the beginning of the Meseta, I was like, “I cannot believe I'm back on the Meseta.

So there's no doubt that from Burgos to Leon is my favorite section of the Caminos that I've done. And if I had to do only one section, it would be the Meseta. I would forego the Pyrenees and also the mountains in the west. I would forego those to walk the Meseta again.For me, it's a blessed trail.

A [00:25:00] lot of people would say that the Camino is a pilgrimage, so it's not a trip, it's not a vacation. What does the Camino offer? 

It offers an encounter with the self. People say when you're on the Camino, if you're not listening to music, you have only yourself to encounter.

And when you do that, there's nowhere to hide. You ask those questions about, why am I here? What is the meaning of life? What am I to do with the time that's given to me? That encounter is something that is a blessed moment and, our lives are filled with distraction, radical distraction—it’s hard to hear God with all of the noise.

Now with all the technology. How many hours have I spent down some social media hole I can't get out--it's like Alice in Wonderland, through the looking glass. So it's an encounter with self and when you encounter yourself, God is going to be there with you. If he's not, you have to keep looking because He is there. 

The Camino is a Catholic pilgrimage, but all are called. All are invited--No one [00:26:00] is turned away. It's about your journey with God, your interior journey. But there are many other souls along the way.

How has this deepened your faith over the last 10 years? How has the Camino made a difference in your walk with God? 

I've been talking about a radical trust, like how? Do I have a childlike trust in God? Do I really believe that he will take care of me? That he'll take care of all things just like a parent and a child.

A parent takes care of all aspects of life for the child, and that's what God calls us to, that kind of relationship. It's in scripture, it's very clear. He says, trust me, I take care of the birds of the ear and the flowers of the field. How much more will I take care of your needs? In our culture, it's all about security.

It's about taking care of our own needs. It's about merit. Like, you know, I merit what I have because I work hard. It's about working hard. It's a very Calvinistic culture. So, yeah, I think it's been a tale of trust and I'm still working on it. Like I still do [00:27:00] not trust the way I should.

Okay. Thank you. That's all the questions I have on the Camino. Well, Karen, for now. For now, of course. Well, I really appreciate your questions. I thought these were very good questions. I hope our listeners will also appreciate your questions and of course, like always--Buen Camino.