These Holy Bones: Vol. 2 Episode 8: A Bed, A Sheet, and A Shower-An Irish Perspective on the Camino

I met Marie and Giselle on the road to Santiago. It was a hot day on the Camino, and everyone was feeling the drain. We were only a few days away from the cathedral, and they agreed to be guests on the podcast once the pilgrimage was complete. Our conversation covers a lot of ground about the Camino and about life in general. Have a listen--I think you'll enjoy this episode.

Transcript

Vol. 2 Episode 8-A Bed A Sheet and A Shower

Robert Nerney: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones. A podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St. James are interred beneath the high altar. I'm your host, Robert Nerney. This episode is being sponsored by Ocean Magic Surf and Skateboard Superstore in Jupiter, Florida.

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Robert Nerney: Swing by ocean magic and Jupiter, just minutes from the water, ocean magic, surf, and skate. Florida's home for all things, surf, skate, and stoke. Check it out. Hello, this is Robert Nerney and I am your host of these Holy Bones, and today is a very special day. I'm in Santiago. I finished walking, the Camino yesterday, with two Dominican priests and we walked approximately 200 miles, from Burgos to Leone, and then we took a bus to Saria, Saria to Santiago, and I've never felt more pain in my life.

Robert Nerney: Okay. I'm definitely feeling my age, both hips. Today I have Marie and Giselle from Ireland. Marie told me we are related in some fashion. Mm-hmm. So she will receive some type of Christmas present this year. So welcome. I'm so glad you said [00:02:00] yes to this podcast.

Robert Nerney: And my first question is just maybe you can introduce yourselves mm-hmm. And tell us a little bit about yourselves, then we'll get into some heavier stuff. 

Marie: Hi. Thanks so much Robert. Um, I am from lovely rum in the west of Ireland and, oh, I forgot to say my name. We'll have to go again. Go ahead. So, hi Robert.

Marie: Yes. My name is Marie. I'm from the west coast of Ireland a lovely place called Lovely Rum. As we met on the Camino, you said your. Grandparents are from Sligo and Rum, which is unique that we met on the Camino and have a connections. We are definitely related, and there will be Christmas cards in your future.

Robert Nerney: I appreciate that. I don't get many cards. 

Giselle: I'm Giselle and Marie and I are cousins, my mother and her father are brother and sister. 

Robert Nerney: First cousins. That's awesome. 

Giselle: I'd like to think we are fairly close.

Giselle: We've been on a few trips together. I can tell You're very close. Yeah. Have we got on fairly well? And, I'm a teacher. I teach 10 year olds at the moment. I've taught all through primary stage, but, I'm living in England and I currently teach in Wokingham.

Giselle: About five, six weeks ago. Marie messaged me [00:03:00] and said, would you walk the Camino with me? I said, yes. So here we are. On the Camino. At that 

Robert Nerney: moment you really didn't know what it was. 

Giselle: No. At that moment, I didn't know what the Camino was.

Giselle: I know that people love hiking and walking, and I've done lots of traveling, lots of walks. I've done the Inca Trail through Peru and walk to Machu Picchu. Five days walking, four nights, camping but I didn't know about the Camino, until Marie said.

Giselle: And then once I mentioned it to my friends, a few of them said they'd done it or wanted to do it, and it was quite a popular thing. And so I thought, wow, now I'm doing something special for a lot of people. Like I know it was on Marie's bucket list.

Robert Nerney: Alright, so Marie, why was it on your bucket list? 

Marie: It was on my bucket list. I had known about the Camino for years my best friend Karen, did four of them recently.  Karen had done four of them, and said it's very good for reflection and that I would really enjoy it.

Marie: She was right in fairness, and it was very last minute because. Um, my dad passed away on the 6th of [00:04:00] June, so that's only about eight weeks ago. And, Giselle had suggested to go to India because that was on my bucket list, you know, kind of a distraction almost. And then I was like, what about the Camino?

Marie: Because taking Karen's advice of reflection and taking time out, I thought the Camino might be a great, holiday, even though it's not really a holiday 'cause it's a pilgrims. But it was just timely. I think it was just timely. 

Robert Nerney: I'm so sorry to hear about your father. Yeah, that's hard. That's beautiful though, that you came here after your father's passing.

Robert Nerney: So what do you feel, I mean, that's pretty close, you said June 6th, right? Did you process some things through the walk? 

Marie: I do think when you're walking, it is a great time to process. I think the first day, we didn't know what to expect even though I had researched it, the heat, so I had, I'd spoken to quite a few Spanish people and they thought we were crazy [00:05:00] because August, it's so hot and our first day it was like 28 to 34 degrees - celsius.

Marie: And being Irish and English, it is very hard to walk in those temperatures. So on day one. But we did talk a lot because we hadn't seen each other from the funeral. So it was like chatting, you know, in the scenery. So you do process a bit, but what I did find over the few days, which I think kind of everything happens for a reason, is there was a lot more symbols.

Marie: So even though we would've grown up in very religious households, I would be probably be more spiritual. On the first day, Giselle said there was a butterfly following me for the longest time up this hill, in the heat. And I was like, oh, well that's a sign. And then a couple of days later, that same butterfly, she was like, it's the exact same one.

Marie: And we'd seen it and it looked like a robin in a shape of a butterfly, which is crazy. But then in two separate days. We both seen Robins on our path [00:06:00] and then there was a robin on one of the Camino signs. So a Robin traditionally is when loved ones or is a symbol of when loved ones are near.

Marie: Which I know happens at home, usually in the winter Robin's appear, but not in Spain on the hottest week so I felt he was with me. We talked about different stories and funny things because he was very jovial and like very easy going.

Marie: So he would've thought this was gas that we took off walking for a week. Walking 30 K one day in this heat. 

Robert Nerney: We met the 30 K. Yes. The 30 K date. 

Marie: Met, I was a sweaty mess. Oh, I like James, Robert. This is not the best time. It was not the end of that.

Marie: I do think you processed it, but you're probably not on the Camino because you have nothing else to do and you talk, and at the scenery you're probably processing more than you would at home, but we haven't had time 

Giselle: It's only been a few weeks.

Giselle: I'm not a morning person Marie was up in the morning not a morning person either but she had [00:07:00] time to talk she talks a lot about her dad everyone processes grief and loss in different ways, but I think that was a really nice opportunity for you to just, just talk because like you said, it's been so busy since all of that's happened.

Giselle: We haven't seen each other since the funeral. He was so well known and loved. It was huge. The funeral, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of people in the church, thousands visiting it was nice time to actually be able to talk it through and process it, you've been busy with family, looking after your mom, back at work, all of these things, it's like, you know, life goes on, but has been incredibly busy.

Giselle: So having that time to just. Talk was actually really lovely. And it was a privilege to be there with you. 

Robert Nerney: Wonderful. That's beautiful. A big part of the Camino, is that it's so human. We're walking. I know you can bike or take a horse. But it's such a human experience for me, that's what the Lord wants us to be attentive to each other, to try to care for each other. And to listen to each other. And I think the Camino allows [00:08:00] us to enter into that human, realm. Sometimes life is busy and we do things we think are significant but not more significant than communicating with each other. And you guys as cousins are like sisters, right? That's a great gift. The Lord gave you a great gift. You have grief, deep grief, but he loves you so much. He gives you a consolation. 

Marie: And I do think, yeah, when you don't have any distractions on the Camino, the only thing you're thinking of is we need to get to the next 10 kilometers, or I can't feel my baby toe anymore. Then somebody will randomly come up to you and be like, Buen Camino, and then you're like, oh great. We met like a Spanish. Like what's really funny, and this is the connection piece. One of the big takeaways for me, obviously you're going through grief, but you have to go through it, you can't go around it.

Marie: It'll take a long time. I don't believe he's still gone. Do you know what I mean? Because it's so recent. On the Camino, you're bumping into people. My Spanish is not great, but we tried. You'll meet people. The first day I was [00:09:00] wearing a Jersey, promoting, Ireland and my home county, but.

Marie: There was another guy and he had an Ireland jersey on, and I was like, oh, well how are you thinking? He was Irish. And he was full on Spanish and had no English--his son had to translate. We took a photo and met them every day. They were a Spanish family from Galicia, a different part.

Marie: You could hear Yolanda in different parts of the Camino and you'd walk with them a little bit, then you'd walk on. Or they would say, we're gonna stop in 5K. And I think the biggest thing was. You don't need the same language. And we had full blown conversations with sign language, body language, pointed out different parts of your body that hurts right now.

Marie: And it all really worked. And that was a big takeaway so many people from different countries and you just say Blank Camino. And you can start a whole conversation. 

Giselle: There were times we were tired and very hot. [00:10:00] And there were times where I didn't wanna talk to anybody and including Marie.

Giselle: We both had times where we were like, this is quiet time. But when we did see people and start chatting it spurred me on I love meeting people traveling, and I've met people all around the world it's really interesting to hear people's stories and why they're doing it.

Giselle: Some people were there for the, for spiritual reasons and some people just wanted their personal challenge and it was really interesting. But yeah, it definitely spurred me on because there were some times I said to Marie, don't stop. I don't wanna talk to anyone. And then actually I was like, oh, actually this has actually given me a second wind and now I can walk a bit faster or keep pace with them for a while.

Giselle: There were some tough times, but actually I think meeting other people really gets you through that. And maybe that, that surprised me more than I thought. Actually, I, I, maybe I wasn't really thinking about that at the time 

Marie: because the last corner, you'll remember this, Giselle, we had the last 10 K, maybe the last six K.

Marie: So we were like, we're so [00:11:00] close. We turned this corner and both of us just stopped talking and looked at the hill 

Robert Nerney: front of us. Oh no. Those hills were dramatic. I've done those before. I don't remember this at all. And 

Marie: we were like, oh no. Giselle said, look how many people are walking.

Marie: There was something lovely. About doing this together. The last five or six K, even though it was a dramatic hill I was thinking my poor knee, Giselle was thinking poor baby toe. And like, but we all got it. And then when we got to that top of the hill, we met a couple from Gia playing the bagpipes.

Marie: Hearing bagpipes you're like, is that in my head? That gets you through 

Robert Nerney: the guy playing the cello? Was it the cello? The 

Giselle: cello, yes. Was we stopped. Beautiful.

Giselle: We talked to him for a bit and that was another stamp as well. We've been collecting our stamps. Oh, I didn't get that along the way. Yeah, there were, there were times where I know that we were like, do we wanna stop? Can we be bothered to queue for a stamp? And when I say cue, there was probably two people in front of us.

Giselle: But there were the times where I thought, I said to [00:12:00] Marie, actually, do you know what? I wanna get as many stamps as I can in this little passport and. Really have it as a memory and show how much we'd done. And actually that was a really nice little keepsake for us then. That's awesome. So that was important to us.

Marie: And I think another thing, well for definitely for us, 'cause we talked on the first day, because we had talked, like, we told so many people, we were doing the Camino and they were like, oh no wait, the Camino like fair play. So I was like, Giselle, regardless. 'cause it's a, like, it's a physical challenge and neither it was so last minute, there was no training involved.

Marie: But I was like, sure, we'll be grand as you do. You'll be like, you'll be fine. We didn't consider the heat and our backpacks, but having chatting people as like, you're coming through and then we didn't realize the terrain. 'cause some of it is just wide open, no shade at all. And you're like, oh no, we're not gonna get past this little bit.

Marie: You'll see a little coffee shop or stand and you just need a break and you'll keep going again. And all those little stamps were so lovely 'cause they would start talking to you [00:13:00] about different things. The passport is important because in like 10 or 20 years when we look back and be like, we did that and we both wrote down the temperatures per day.

Marie: We'll remember that we can do hard things. 

Giselle: Absolutely. With the stamps as well as you just said there, it's the memories as you're going along. And that's actually when we stopped to, to make, to get the next stamp. We met a lot of people.

Giselle: We met a lovely lady called Alice from Tipperary, and that's when we met her is when we were getting a stamp and she was talking to us. And then we actually walked with her for a long time and, kept pace she could really walk. She'd been walking. For, I lost count how many days?

Giselle: 'cause she came from Leon. She then needed to stop at one point and get a bus because there's forest fires that we were unaware of until we had a message sent from Ireland. Be careful of the forest fires. No, no, it's nowhere near us. Then found out it was only a hundred K away.

Giselle: Actually it was quite close to us and some other walkers were showing us photos. Of, the forest fires in the [00:14:00] woods and, you know, we thought, oh wow, it's actually closer than we thought. So we are very lucky. And a lot of the time we kept saying that, we felt grateful, it didn't get canceled, that we didn't have to, like parts of the Camino had been closed.

Giselle: Luckily, we'd got through those parts. And we were also very grateful that we were able to walk because there's so many people that don't have that, you know. And, and we were moaning about a blister here, there or anywhere, and a bad knee or ankle, but actually we didn't come out with any injuries. And we are so grateful for that because both of us worried that would be our main thing. We get an injury and we wouldn't be able to finish because we had done no training. 

Marie: Usually in the morning when Giselle was non-verbal and I was like full of chat even though I didn't have any coffee and we would take a moment for that simple reason to be grateful that you can walk to grateful that we actually are on the Camino, no injuries, but like. [00:15:00] That is your purpose of why you're doing it. So definitely having those moments of gratitude and reflection each day. And I think, we'll probably after this in a week or two, we'll probably think more. 'cause now we've just finished it. We're trying to think what did we do? 'cause it flew, the days flew. That would be the only other thing 

Giselle: Yeah. I was really surprised by that because at one point I kept thinking oh, we've got four days left. We've got three days left. We've got two days left. And then right towards the end, I thought this has gone quickly and there were parts I thought, I can't remember what happened on that day because it did fly by and I wasn't expecting that.

Giselle: And I think we learned a little bit more about each other. We've been away together before we've, we've been to Cambodia, we've been to Thailand, we've been to Croatia. We've done lots of things together. But, we still learn quirky things. Marie cannot speak until she's had two coffees in the morning, and God help you if she's hungry and she wants to go for breakfast.

Giselle: And I think she learned things like that from me, that I do not, do not wanna have a conversation first thing. And [00:16:00] there are certain times we just can't speak. 

Robert Nerney: They say on the communo a day is like, a week. A week is like a month. You're ambulating, walking.

Robert Nerney: Spending so much time with each other. Conversations, eating all that stuff, you know what I mean? 

Giselle: I mean, we are really lucky because we get on so well. We are first cousins. 

Robert Nerney: Beautiful. 

Giselle: Tiny age gap. I'm a bit older than Marie, but, I'm 

Robert Nerney: sure I'm older than both of you, but, let me ask you this.

Robert Nerney: Did you bring anything unique that you are glad that you brought? So if something in your pack, like me, I love books. I'm an English teacher, hoping to get another job soon, when I went to Ireland on my honeymoon with my wife in 1989, we backpacked to Ireland.

Robert Nerney: Not really. And I brought, I brought 14 books my wife's like, why are you bringing so many books? I left them in Ireland. So anything you brought that was unique? 

Marie: So I did bring something unique, so back to my dad that, so he sadly passed away in ICU in [00:17:00] Galway University Hospital, and we were all there with them.

Marie: So the entire family, our four older brothers. And so my sister-in-laws and my mom were all there, but in, goalie University, they knit volunteers, knit hearts. So when we went back into him, the nurses who were incredible, had a heart in his hands and they gave each of us a heart. He got buried with his and we have his heart with us.

Marie: I actually brought that on the Camino and took beautiful photos with the heart in different places. I felt he was with me throughout protecting us, and minding our injuries. We didn't get more injured.

Marie: I think those things make it more meaningful. I also brought a book and a journal, which I regretted on day one because our backpacks were heavy with three and a half liters of water, two books. I brought a blanket that I thought we would be sitting out for lunch, brought a lunchbox because I thought she would be sitting having like [00:18:00] fruit and everything.

Marie: We brought so much in our backpack that I didn't use. Day two was very different, but one piece of advice would be on day two or three, your feet get sore. I had plantar fasciitis before, so I bought a hard ball for your feet and you can just massage out your feet, and that was unbelievable.

Marie: So I would say that is a top tip, a tiny little ball. 

Giselle: I didn't bring anything specific on my journey. I think I had far too much pact and I think we all do that in life. We bring far too many things we don't need. And I think a lot of it I had, I would've cut out completely.

Giselle: We all bring too much. And actually between Marie and myself, I mean, there were days I was sitting on Marie's suitcase so she could zip it up. Every night you're in a different place packing and repacking. This makes you think about it.

Giselle: What do you actually need? And the things that you bring, it's, it's all of these things that you don't need, so you don't need them in life. So yeah, I think, simple. Just go with a bare minimum, what do you actually need? And that's just some water, some sunscreen, and a few plasters. 

Robert Nerney: Yeah, definitely sunscreen if you're Irish, [00:19:00] right?

Robert Nerney: I can relate to that. There's a cliche, you pack your fears, and we do pack our fears, like in life we make sure we have insurance for this and insurance for that, and this and that. So the Camino really does for me, distill some of the lessons in life.

Robert Nerney: We don't need a lot and should share because it's not just about us, it's about the other pilgrims what do you think? 

Marie: We met a love. We were stopping for a plaster change at a water fountain, which is essential.

Marie: And this lovely man on a bike came up and he was walking towards us with his backpack, so I assumed he was gonna ask us directions or whatever. And he just came out with fruit. Do you remember that? He was sharing on the Camino was you share with what you have, if that's sunscreen or water.

Marie: It's all the little things that I do think what Giselle said there is like, only carry what you have, but that is essential for life. Like, you don't need a lot going back to basics. Staying in Alberta was great. All you need is a bed a sheet and a shower.

Marie: That is it you're not eating as much [00:20:00] only what you need and kind of going, 'cause you can't sit for that long. 'cause if you were sitting for too long, you wouldn't actually get up and walk. You'd be too stiff. 

Giselle: We ate very healthily.

Giselle: All of the food was great. I think we are so used to processed food I really noticed it. I feel like I've had a little bit of a, a health kick there, whether that will continue when I go home. We'll see. But but yeah, we really noticed lots of healthy fruit and veg.

Robert Nerney: You guys are back home in Ireland and England at your local pub, which is important, I know, for both. And, so you have a friend and they say, oh, I heard you went on the Camino. What would you say to that friend if they said, should I do that? Should I make that Camino?

Robert Nerney: I, 

Giselle: I would, I mean, I've already spoken to somebody who said tell me how it is. Their friends have been, and it's on their bucket list. This was someone I didn't know, had never said to me that she wanted to do it, and I would recommend it.

Giselle: I think for me it was a personal challenge and I'm pleased I did it it showed I could do it. There were times it was really hard, but I'm, I'm glad I did it. I think it depends what, you know, everyone's gonna have different reasons. Some will do it as a spiritual [00:21:00] journey.

Giselle: Some will want to do it as a personal journey I would recommend if they want to challenge themselves spiritually or physically, then I would recommend it. Okay. 

Marie: I think so. I think definitely a personal challenge, but it's, my favorite thing is it's all ages.

Marie: So we met people who were like well into their seventies, and then you see like teenagers as little groups doing it. So don't think you're not fit enough you take the Camino at your own pace. Spread it over as many days as you want. The only person you're in competition with is yourself.

Marie: The best thing is you're walking you'll meet somebody, you can walk with them for a few K, they will push you along. Or if you wanna like take an extra long break, you can, there's many different reasons why you should do it, but I think it's a great, break. From your phone, screens, nine to five.

Marie: The Camino is a great way to do that, but you still have such a big connection with people. And it's bringing you back to basics, which I think we all kind of need. Regardless what journey you're on, you always [00:22:00] kind of need that. And I do know Karen had said to me, doing it on your own, you get a lot more out of it.

Marie: We definitely had a lot of quiet time, but when you get back to your hostel early enough, and the sun's still out, I journaled or read a book when you're with someone. They push you along like in the harder days or the, you know, when it's really hot and we were like, we should have left a half an hour earlier.

Marie: They push you along, but you are never alone on the Camino. It's very safe. Even in the morning I didn't bring a torch. But we never felt uneasy.

Marie: A lot of people brought their pets, it was great. I would highly recommend it, but at your own pace. 

Robert Nerney: Okay, awesome. I like a lot of what you, this is a very good interview. Any takeaways you want to share? You kind of just gave me some takeaways, but any takeaway I want to share with my audience, which is not that huge, but takeaways.

Giselle: I think, like we just said have a go. Just try. Even if you [00:23:00] think you can't you can. We joked about racing and keeping up with others and people overtaking us, and us overtaking them. But actually we knew we were on our own journey at our own pace we took our time and, didn't wanna push ourselves and injure ourselves.

Giselle: Just for getting somewhere quicker. Maybe that's a reflection on life we need to take it easier we're all busy rushing all the time I am in teaching. It's constant. I don't think I switch off. And so maybe that's something hopefully I will take back with me.

Giselle: I'm sure it won't last very long, and then I'll be back into the swing of teaching and crazy busy teaching life. Well, that's why 

Robert Nerney: you come back next summer. Yes. That's exactly why I come back and 

Giselle: then you switch off again. Maybe I'll bring that back to my students and, talk to the kids in my class about taking a little time, but also having that personal challenge.

Giselle: I'm a religious education lead across the trust of schools. I work for. I may bring out a few stories from the Camino in my next meeting show a few of, the photos and, share some of the stories,

Robert Nerney: awesome. 

Giselle: So, 

Marie: Takeaways? It's a unique experience for sure. 

Robert Nerney: Oh, it's so unique. [00:24:00] Sometimes it blows my mind. I'm like, what is going on? Why am I doing this? I agree. And then each 

Marie: So we were gonna do it in a shorter amount of days and on the first day we decided to take more breaks, 

Robert Nerney: smart 

Marie: I'm so grateful we did because you're really soaked up in it even though it flew.

Marie: We met unique experiences. We were passing a chapel. There's loads of lovely little chapels. We went in and light candles, so definitely I said I was spiritual love light in a candle. So I lit loads of candles for different people and then we went in to this little chapel and it was a blind priest.

Marie: Giving out the stamps and back to the language and collection, he didn't have much English. My Spanish wasn't great, that was such a unique experience. And I will tell all your listeners. He did slag or give Giselle a hard time from being from England, which all the Spanish and the Q laughed, which I laughed as well 'cause I was from Ireland, even though he initially thought I was Italian and he's blind, which is funny.

Marie: But [00:25:00] anyways, that was a unique experience. But the other unique experience was when we stopped at the different stamps, we met a Dutch lady who gave us a heart and. Well, the, meaning she gave us a heart. And in the meaning it was in Spanish, it was train your mind to see the beauty in everything. Take those moments to look around and realize life is great.

Marie: Even through tough times. Like we heard crickets in the morning, you hear birds singing because we're not in cities. So all taking all of that in was so lovely. And then we stopped another time and got, one of our first stamps and that one for me, what you just put your hand in and it was a lucky dip of whatever, saying you got.

Marie: Mine was what changes on the Camino will last with you forever. So even if we take a little change for taking those couple of minutes each day to be grateful and gratitude is a real big thing. I'm really trying. And to reflect because [00:26:00] life can be sunshine and rainbows. I know not all the time and everybody goes through tough times, but I think from going through that with my dad so recently and what Giselle said, so many people showed up for us that you didn't have to ask them.

Marie: They just did things. So that human connection, I know AI and all this technology is happening, but like that human connection is everlasting being grateful and taking those moments. To realize life can be so good. 

Giselle: Yeah. And, and one of my little, sayings that I got and one of my stamps was follow your heart and avoid the distractions around you.

Giselle: And that is something I find quite difficult. So actually I thought, well, that actually does fit me and probably is a very good piece of advice. It's quite difficult to take the advice sometimes, but you know, with all the distractions I see it with kids I'm teaching and the technology, it's harder for people to switch off adults and kids, but kids are growing up with it going on something like a Camino there are many around the world [00:27:00] that.

Giselle: It gives you that opportunity to listen as you said, to the crickets, to the birds, to sometimes not listen to anything or listening to other people's conversations. Even though we didn't have very many people speaking English around us, many Spanish, you could kind of still understand what was going on, you know? And that was really interesting. I have no Spanish, so, that was really nice. That's a good takeaway for me. 

Robert Nerney: All right, ladies, thank you so much, Marie and Giselle, and Buen Camino. 

I think the message is listen to the crickets. Bless you. Thank you.