These Holy Bones: Vol. 2 Episode 11: Back to Nature with Constantine from Germany

In this episode, Constantine, a pilgrim from Germany, spends time telling me about his most recent pilgrimage following the original route to Santiago, the Primitivo. We met in an albergue in Santiago at the end of our treks into the holy city. Constantine yearns for nature in contrast to his urban lifestyle back home in Germany. The Camino offers him nature and time to slow down and reflect. Take a few moments and enter into my conversation with Constantine--I think you'll enjoy it. 

Transcript

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Vol. 2 Episode 11 - Back to Nature with Constantine from Germany

Host: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones. A podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St. James are interred beneath the high altar. I'm your host, Robert Nerney. This episode is being sponsored by Ocean Magic Surf and Skateboard Superstore in Jupiter, Florida.

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Host: This is Robert Nerney. I'm your host, and I'm actually in my alburgue tonight. And I met another pilgrim Constantine from Germany.

He's very friendly and he agreed to do a podcast. So we're right here in our room and, thank you so much, Constantine. Can you just do a little introduction so we know who you are and where you came from. Where you come from? 

Constantine: Yeah, sure. Really nice to be here with you. Well, yeah.

My name is Constantina. I'm from Germany, a city called Dusseldorf. It's near Cologne, actually. Like 40 minutes away. By, by bus. Yeah, I'm as already said, 33. Currently working as a software engineer actually for a consulting company in Germany. And now to the tough question why I'm here.

Host: Right, right. For the third time. Right. 

Constantine: For the third time, exactly. 

Host: Good. 

Constantine: Yeah. So the first time was really after a long period of work, I was burned out from all the work. So the second time was just to enjoy the nature. I did the second time, the Camino [00:02:00]Portuguese, actually.

And now this time, the first time I was thinking about enjoying something more, natural, let's say like nature or more nature, more, mounty. So I decided to go on the Camino Primitivo here in Spain. Yeah, to enjoy actually the most. The most basic Camino there is actually, if you read it online, they will tell you it's the, the very first Camino, which was introduced.

Host: I did that a few years back. They say Alphons the second. Yeah. Walked it. And uh, that was the first Camino back in the year 814 or it was, you know, some time ago. It wasn't yesterday. Yeah. I found it very difficult. I actually, uh, when I did the primitivo, I met my brother-in-law and I kind of like, I had a huge blister and I had to take a few stages off.

Host: So he walked by himself and I would just meet him, you know, I would take a taxi, so it was kind of easy for me. But I agree. It's remote. It's, it's, uh, it's mountainous and, uh, I know I struggled. On that one. So how, how was it, did you feel like, was it a struggle or no? Was it something.

Constantine: I, to be honest, it's a philosophical question, I think because the Camino itself should be a struggle. This is my personal opinion. If you don't struggle, you didn't walk. 

Host: Right, right, right, right. 

Constantine: Uh, yes. It was a lot of struggle [00:03:00] actually. Especially the first part, when you start, you have to walk in the mountains. Right. And, uh, if you're not used to it and I'm coming from a region where I am not used to it, uh, then it's a lot of struggle actually. 

Host: Alright, do you have any recommendations for future, pilgrims? Okay, so we spoke a little bit before we went on air and you said you packed light this time. 

Constantine: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. 

Host: What did you take, what do you take in the 

bag? 

Constantine: Only the most basic things you should take is you like underwear, socks, shoes, the right shoes is definitely like the most important part of the journey.

Constantine: Enough water. And this is actually it. Nothing else. Like I, you know, the toothbrush, this, this stuff as well, right? Obviously, but not too much. So this is the essence you have to really boil down. There is no infrastructure or not that much infrastructure. So it means, you really have to decide what you take with you.

Host: How were you introduced to the Camino? You've done three--you've done the Primitivo, you've done the Portuguese, and you've done...

Constantine: Frances. 

Host: How long [00:04:00] did that take you?

Constantine: Good question. Uh, so officially it's like 30 days, but, I, I kind of like the challenge I would say. So I, I walked it in. I started on the seventh of, of June, I remember it because it's my birthday and I finished it on the 1st of July. So whatever it is actually, wow, that's fast. 20, 25 days, 23 days. I dunno. Um, the nice thing about the Camino Frances, it's like plane. So there's, they can keep on walking for the whole day. There's enough infrastructure means even if you stop at seven in the evening, there will still be a place for you to stay. This I cannot tell you or not say you about the Camino Primitivo. So if you are not early enough, it might be that you will have to sleep outside. 

Host: That's what I think I love about the Frances--it is heavily supported.

Constantine: Yes. 

Host: So that if you don't, you know you don't make the stage. You can usually find something before the stage ends or even after the stage ends. I like that. I like the fact that I'm like, oh, I did six miles. I'm gonna stop here. You know what I mean? I, I really enjoy the fact that you have, uh, support.

Host: Alright, so, um, and how were you introduced? 

Constantine: Oh, yeah. I forgot the question. You know, years ago when I finished my studies, I was thinking about doing something which is a little bit more, you know, closer to nature. because [00:05:00] I was living in a big city. There was not much nature around me. So I started to search around on the internet what you can do in Europe, actually. And there are different trails available. So you have, for instance, I think it's called G 20, it's in the Pyrenees. So you cross actually from the, from the Atlantic Ocean to the uh, Mediterranean Sea. There's, uh, one trail going on. Oh, wow. But it's 60 days in the mountains. Wow. Almost no infrastructure. Yeah. So for instance, this one or many other roads, and I was like, okay, I don't want to start with the toughest one. You know, it would be crazy actually. 

Host: That sounds, crazy. 

Constantine: Yeah. 

Host: Intense. 

Constantine: So I was looking actually, and then I found the Camino where people wrote about it as enough infrastructure, and it is actually well known. I was like, okay, sounds interesting enough for me. Nature, good food in Spain, Nice people. I know a little bit of the language, so. 

Host: Right, right. Uh, let me ask you this. Um, let's go back to the Frances. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's my favorite. I haven't done the Norte, although I spent one day on the Norte with my wife, and she was dehydrated.

Host: She ended up in a hospital in San Sebastian, and so that was it for one day. But, um, I love the, uh, Frances, I love the fact that it's so iconic. There's so many, you know, things that you see in movies and you read in books.  

Constantine: Correct. 

Host: But I, I do love the fact that there are so many pilgrims on the Frances. And they're so diverse. You know, I love meeting people from different cultures. What's your favorite part of the Frances? 

Constantine: Huh? Yes. You already said it's the people. I would say so--the Camino without the people wouldn't be the Camino. Right. Uh, you know, when I walked the first time, I was really surprised how many people from Asia were walking.

Host:  A lot of South Koreans? 

Constantine: Yes. That's crazy actually. 

Host: Yeah. They had someone, like a woman that wrote a book or something, also something artistic that helped, you know, the art promoted the pilgrimage.

Constantine: They're also heavily Catholic actually. That's the reason for them. Yes. I didn't know that for most people, for [00:07:00] Germany's France, it's, it's kind of about religion, but it's not that much about religion--But for the South Koreans it's really about religion, actually. 

Host: Uh, I wonder what percent are Catholic.

Constantine: Oh. Quite heavily. 

Host: I didn't know that. 

Constantine: Yeah. After  the second World War, I think that they, they become heavily Catholic. 

Host: Oh, very interesting. 

Constantine: But only the south, you can imagine South, of course.

Host: Yeah. On one Camino I met someone who said he was from South Korea. Then later said, "I'm from the north, I escaped." I said, I'm telling on you. Not yet. What about the Meseta? So I, uh, you know, I walked with two Dominican priests this year, and I was not really their guide, but I said we should start in Burgos, walk to Leon. And then take a bus to Saria and then go from Sarria to Santiago. What's your, um, take on the Meseta from Burgos to Leon? 

Constantine: I love this, actually. Love it. I really love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it might be like a strange take on the situation, but I really loved it. I mean, people say that It's kind of boring, you know, because there's nothing, there's just fields and nothing. And everything is kind of burned out because there's so much sun. Yeah. But this is exactly the aspect I really loved about it, because you kind of start to look inwards instead of outwards, you know? And then you start to think about it and, and, and then you start to ask yourself questions, which you are never asking yourself because it's, you know, too [00:08:00] much noise going around you, and then this noise is dying out in the Meseta.

And then you start to hear yourself. This is what I loved about it. 

Host: Oh, I love that. That's awesome. No, it's a great place for me to pray and to reflect. 

Constantine: Yes. 

Host: And what are some of the questions that you ask yourself? 

Constantine: You know, when I, when I work, I'm always like, oh, do I really want to do this? Like, working the work I'm doing?

I love my work, but I'm not sure if I want to do it like for the next. I don't wanna talk about German politics, but most probably from the next 50 years. 

Host: Right, right. 

Constantine: But when I was there, I was starting to think, what's my alternative? Actually, what can I do instead? You know? And, uh, this was the place for me because there were no people--no one is kind of disturbing. You can really start to think about things.

Host: Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah, I think that's what it's about, going inside, and that's a place where you can really go deep. 

Constantine: Yeah, 

Host: that's true. 

Constantine: Yeah. 

Host: Uh, so yeah, I, I do love the Meseta and, uh, and I love this year for some reason, in the past it was, I don't know how many actually, how many times I've done it, how many times I've crossed the Meseta, but in the past they didn't have the vast sunflower fields. 

Constantine: Hmm. Interesting. I don't remember them actually, but I did it two years ago. 

Host: Okay. So what would be one recommendation you would give to a future pilgrim? 

Constantine: Oh yeah. Choose your shoes [00:09:00] wisely. 

Host: Okay. That's a good one. Give me another one. Something that is not so practical. 

Constantine: Good one. Yeah, we just talked about it actually about albgergues. So you have to always check for bed bugs. It's not common knowledge, but you really have to be aware. 

Host: Right, right. But one of the priests that I was with, he, he actually brought a cover for the mattress.  

Constantine: Oh yeah. 

Host: That you could zip up and over it, and so he only used it a few times. Then he just said, forget it. 

Constantine: Yeah. I am not sure actually if it helps that much, but.

Host: What if a friend asked you about the Camino--would you recommend it?

Constantine: Definitely. I wouldn't recommend the Primitivo as the first Camino.

Constantine: Um. Especially without, you know, training all those things, being in the mountains. But I would definitely recommend, uh, French Way, definitely. 

Host: Okay. Yeah. 

Constantine: That's like one of the life changing experiences I, I made in the last few years and I'm kind of, you know, regretting that I didn't, that, uh, didn't do it earlier.

Host: Right. That's interesting. I didn't do my first until I was 51. 

Constantine: Oh, 

Host: so I mean now I'm 62. 

Constantine: Yeah. Yeah. 

Host: So who knows? I think, uh, I love the movie The Way you haven't seen it, you said? 

Constantine: [00:10:00] No, I didn't. 

Host: But there's one scene where, um, the two men are walking and one says that I think, uh, Tom Avery's on the Camino by accident.

Host: And the other one says, no one, no one does the Camino by accident. Yeah, that's true. I think that's so true. Yeah. Okay. Well, I enjoyed this conversation and I appreciate your time, Constantine. And, of course, Buen Camino.

Constantine: Buen Camino.