These Holy Bones: Vol. 3 - Episode 1: A Ten-Year-Old Pilgrim's Perspective

The first episode of season three is an interview with my 10-year-old granddaughter, Harper-Lee. We recently completed a fifteen-day pilgrimage that began in Leon. I had been promising to take Harper on the Camino when she turned 10 years old. Well, she's 10, so we packed our backpacks and headed for Spain. Harper talks about her expectations, her challenges, her favorite meals and the lessons learned. Her 10-year-old perspective is both charming and insightful. Have a listen.

Transcript

Robert 0:08

Welcome to another episode of These Holy Bones, a podcast about the ancient pilgrimage to the Cathedral of Santiago, where the bones of St. James the Apostle are interred beneath the high altar. This is your host, Robert Nurney. And this is actually the first um podcast of season three or volume three. And uh today I have my granddaughter, my oldest granddaughter, Hopper Lee, and we recently completed um uh our Camino that I had promised to her for years. I said when you were 10 years old, um Papa's gonna take you on the Camino. So we started in Lyon. We walked from Lyon to Malina Seca, and then we took a taxi to Saaria, and then from Saria to Santiago, we completed the last hundred kilometers to receive our Compostela. So it took us about 17 days total. We we walked for 15. The travel, of course, takes a few days. And we are we've been back for over a week, and today's episode I'm gonna interview Harper to see what a 10-year-old perspective on the Camino looks like. So, Harper, how how are you doing?

Harper-Lee 1:11

I'm good, how are you?

Robert 1:12

Very well. So tell me why did you say yes to Papa? Why did you say yes? I'll go with you on this on the Camino.

Harper-Lee 1:20

Well, when you had like ever since I was like, I don't know, two years old ish, like you've always been like, okay, I'm gonna take on the Camino. So I'm like, oh okay, yeah, cool. I didn't even like really know what it was. At the time either way. And then as I got older, I was like, oh wait, I'm turning ten soon, I'm gonna be on the Camino. And you were like explaining it to me, like talking about it, and I was like, Oh, I I thought it sounded like cool and I could like it would just be like something cool, like a cool experience, especially because um after knowing that not many people my age are doing it. But um I did um picture it being a little harder than it actually was.

Robert 1:56

Okay, so tell us what what did you expect before you left?

Harper-Lee 2:00

Um, well I expected it to be like a lot harder than like I was picturing walking like the whole Camino. We didn't walk the full thing, but I thought we were gonna do the full thing, and I was like, people were just like, oh, you're walking across Spain. I'm like, oh wait, what? And I was like, oh, and then like I thought the Albergues are gonna be way worse because I've never been to one before. And yeah, I just pictured uh we didn't actually end up sharing a room at all for the 15 days. Um and I thought we were gonna be sharing a room, so I was like kind of nervous, but um it wasn't that bad.

Robert 2:32

Okay, let's talk about preparation. How did you prepare for this Camino?

Harper-Lee 2:37

Um, well, a lot of people mean like everyone who Oh, sorry, everyone who I had um told about the Camino uh has said like pack very lightweight and like do not pack a lot, you don't need any extra things if you don't need it or if you're not gonna use it, do not bring it. And I was like, oh, if I just like bring one extra thing, it's not gonna be that heavy. Like I didn't think my backpack was gonna be too bad. Um, but the first few days the backpack was really bothering me because I um my backpack was really heavy, and I was like, oh no, I definitely um packed too much. And I don't even think that I packed uh I wasn't I didn't think I was gonna pack um too much because it was just a bunch of clothes and um like little things that I would need while walking.

Robert 3:21

Um But you weren't you weren't used to carrying a backpack that had that much weight.

Harper-Lee 3:26

Yeah, because when I was preparing for the Camino, I would like go on hikes and stuff, or I would go on walks around the neighborhood. Like I wouldn't be carrying a pack with me.

Robert 3:35

Alright, let's talk about the pilgrims. Um, what kind of pilgrims did you meet along the way? How would you describe the people that you met?

Harper-Lee 3:42

Well, a lot of the people who we met were definitely older. Um people were like very uh like very nice and like you know, just a lot of mo most of the people who we met were like extremely nice and very friendly. Um But like I said, like everyone who we met were um usually like older than I expected.

Robert 4:05

How old were they?

Harper-Lee 4:07

Well, some of them were like in their twenties, which was apparently on the younger side. I mean, com not compared to me, but um they some of them were in like their twenties, thirties, and then other people were in like their fifties or sixties, like your age.

Robert 4:21

Oh, very old. All right. Um so when you get back to California, um, which would actually be shortly, do you think you'll tell um your friends about the Camino? And if if you say yes, what will you tell them about the Camino?

Harper-Lee 4:36

Um yeah, I'm definitely gonna tell my friends about the Camino because they knew that I were they knew that I was going. They have been like asking me a bunch of questions ahead of time too. So I know they're gonna be asking questions when I get back. So I'm definitely gonna be telling them a lot about the Camino, and I'm not gonna um I'm gonna describe it like well, it's really just a bunch of walking. Like we walked, we slept, we ate, we prayed, um, like we it was just a lot and a lot of walking compared to like how much walking I've been doing after the Camino because during the Camino we were walking like t around 10 miles every day. Um, and now I'm just walking like five miles every day. I'm like, it's n very different.

Robert 5:19

Okay, tell me about those days where you walked. So you walked for 15 days. We did a total of about 125 miles thereabouts. Um, and uh the first week was very warm. Okay, it's probably 93, 94 degrees in Spain. Uh um obviously that's Fahrenheit, not Celsius. And um how did you deal with those first few days? Those first say the first three days, so when you were getting used to the backpack and you had to deal with the heat, how were those first couple of days?

Harper-Lee 5:49

Well, they were actually very rough, but the first few days we were more in like well, the first day we were in like more of a city area in like Leon. Um But I wasn't used like I said, I wasn't used to carrying a backpack, so they were very rough. And since it was so hot compared to the other days, um, I just wasn't used to that either. I mean I was because I'm from California, but like it was really hot, and when I'm walking, usually I pick like a cooler day to walk, but I didn't have a choice then, so it was just really hot. Okay, difficult.

Robert 6:24

You found it difficult? I think Papa found it difficult too. Okay, get let's talk about what was the the greatest or the the best thing that happened, uh, or what's the best thing about the Camino?

Harper-Lee 6:36

Ooh, um this is a very basic thing, but we were able to have our own room, like not sharing a room for the whole time, which I appreciated a lot. Like I was really happy about that because towards the end, you're like, okay, we're gonna be sharing a room soon, we're gonna be sharing a room soon. Then you had reserved the last two days a private room, so we knew we weren't gonna be sharing a room at all, and I was um very surprised and I was very like happy that that wasn't happening because I know most pilgrim uh pilgrims share a room throughout their pilgrimage.

Robert 7:06

Right, so even though we stayed at a few alberges, we kind of lucked out there was just no one else in that in those bunk rooms, and we had our own bunk room to ourselves, so that was very interesting. What was the most challenging um aspect of this particular trip? Okay, it could be anything from beginning to end. What was the most challenging?

Harper-Lee 7:25

Well, the challenge of the there was always like some sort of challenge every day, like while walking. Like towards like the first week-ish of the Camino, I was really I was just so mad about the backpack. I was just like, oh, can we leave the backpack here? I was like joking when I said it though. I was just like so upset about the backpack, like it was really bothering me. And then I ended up getting used to it by the last week, and um well by the last in a few days I started getting used to it. Um, so the backpack wasn't like bothering me as much anymore. And then my feet started to hurt, and my feet weren't like bothering me, and like they weren't hurting, they had no blisters for the first few days, and even um they I didn't get any blisters at all. Like my skin started peeling a little bit um within a few days, but no blisters. Um, so that was great. The challenge was like mainly my feet and my shoulders because my backpack wasn't bothering me, but my shoulders were hurting from the backpack, and then my feet were really bothering me because they hurt, and like I had already we had been walking so much, so my feet were just in pain.

Robert 8:28

Alright, with all the walking you did, did you have time for God? Did you pray? Did you think um about about God, about Jesus, about the Blessed Mother while you walked on the Camino?

Harper-Lee 8:42

Oh yeah, yeah, we had plenty of time to pray. We like while on the road, uh, we would like pray the rosary. I would pray in my head. Um Yeah, we had like all the time in the world to pray. I was thinking about um well, I was just praying a lot during the Camino. We would like stop at churches and like yeah, we definitely prayed a lot.

Robert 9:02

Okay, so if you were asked by someone who was planning a pilgrimage or this pilgrimage, what might you suggest they do to get ready for the Camino?

Harper-Lee 9:10

Definitely pack very lightweight. Like I thought I was gonna be able to pack lightweight, like, and I was like, oh, this is gonna be very light. Like when I was trying the backpack on, oh yeah, this is fine. But when you're on the Camino, it really the backpack really is um heavy, like it's a real like my backpack was really bothering me the first few days, like I said. Um, so definitely try to pack as light as possible.

Robert 9:30

And you really don't need that much. Like, what do you need on the Camino?

Harper-Lee 9:33

You just need like a few good outfits, like some things that I brought, I never like um used at all. Like I literally wore two outfits that whole trip, and I'm not exaggerating. Like I brought I wore like three outfits the whole trip. It was I did not need very many clothes, and then also my poncho and like am I saying that right? Yeah, um, and like some other things that I brought, I didn't end up using. Um, so just if you don't like think take the stuff that you're bringing and be like, am I gonna use this?

Robert 10:03

Because it's really um it the Camino the pilgrimage is very like much easier with a light backpack, so right, and I always find myself, even though I pack like say three pairs of shorts, um, you know, three pairs of socks, I always find myself um using the same shorts every day. And then, you know, as far as uh, you know, tops go, I usually bring a few long sleeve, usually not cotton, like wool or some type of like um synthetic fabric, but I always and the thing is with the top, it does get a little stinky if uh, you know, if you don't wash it enough. But um shorts and uh even socks. I I repeated um uh the use of uh one pier like three days in a row and I was like, oh this is kind of gross, but I still did it. Um I got through. Okay. Do you think your mother would uh enjoy the pilgrimage?

Harper-Lee 10:50

Ooh, um yeah, I think she would actually like it. Um you were showing me like your Instagram post and I saw that she was commenting, like, oh, I want to do it with you guys someday. Like, yeah. Um she would definitely enjoy it. Um, but when preparing, I would definitely make sure that she's packing lightweight because it definitely would help her. But yeah, she would definitely um it would definitely be something that she wouldn't look into.

Robert 11:11

Okay, now this might be a little uh touchy topic. I know that you're a very picky eater, okay? What was your favorite meal on the Camino?

Harper-Lee 11:21

So the first, like I think it was the second night actually. We were in this hotel. It wasn't uh Albert, it was a hotel. Well was it? It was like it was a hotel.

Robert 11:28

It was like a pension.

Harper-Lee 11:29

Yeah, something like that.

Robert 11:30

Pension.

Harper-Lee 11:31

And uh we had our own room, like I said.

Robert 11:33

Uh and it definitely wasn't a hotel. It was more of a pension.

Harper-Lee 11:36

Yeah, I don't know what it was. Yeah. Um They had we were eating, uh, I think it was like lunch or dinner, and they had the best scrambled eggs, like not as good as yours, but they were really good. Like they were like yours, because your like yours are really fluffy and like you know, like they're not burnt. Like that's how those were. Uh they were very fluffy.

Robert 11:55

No, they looked good.

Harper-Lee 11:56

Yeah, they were really good. Um, I I had like three plates of those, which was so good. Because that's uh that was like all I ate that day, because I didn't have a very picky eater.

Robert 12:05

Now, what about those two burgers you had? Remember the the Galician um beef where you had a little roadside stop and you had a burger and you said can I Papa can have another one? They wouldn't they weren't big.

Harper-Lee 12:17

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That one that oh, I remember. Yeah, that was actually those that burger was really good too. Yeah, I really liked that one.

Robert 12:24

Okay, I knew you liked that one. And um as far as um Coca-Cola, how many things how many Cokes do you think you drank?

Harper-Lee 12:31

I can't keep count. It's so much.

Robert 12:34

Alright, let me ask you this. What was the funniest thing that happened along the way?

Harper-Lee 12:38

Oh funny. Oh, so okay, there was two, but it happened the same day. So we were Papa thought that we were like the only people on like a road. Well, it wasn't a road, it was like a path. And um he was like singing, you know, to a song that uh he was pulling on his phone, he was like singing to it. He thought that we were the only ones there, but there was a lady and a few other people right behind him, and then the lady uh walked past it and then it like scared him. And it was so funny because she was like hearing him singing, and I saw her because I was looking at him and I saw her right behind him, and I thought he thought he knew she was there, so I didn't tell him.

Robert 13:15

It was so funny, but she did yeah, I was surprised. I was like, Where the heck did you come from?

Harper-Lee 13:20

And that same day, we were like, we have this thing, so if we're having a standing break, I'll hold his poles, lean on them, and then we'll sit stand for a second and then keep walking. A sitting break, so we take our backpacks off and we sit like on the floor or like on a wall like on a wall or something. And we were like taking a sitting break. We were sitting, we had our backpacks off, we were sitting on this like little stone wall thing. And I asked Papa what was uh his most I was so bored, so I was like, what was your most embarrassing moment? Because I wanted to laugh. And um he said one time in Bandcamp, and then this lady came, um, she was walking by us and she was pretty ahead of us, but oh, after he said that, and she said, She doesn't need to know that. And then we had to um we had to look up because he didn't know what that phrase was from. He just had been hearing people say that, so he he was saying it too. So we had to like look up where that phrase was from, and it was from American Pie, some movie that um was not appropriate for me. So yeah, she probably had watched it and she was like, She doesn't need to know that.

Robert 14:21

Right, and I didn't need to know it either, I guess. No, that was funny. Those two things happened the same day, very close together. They were both very funny, and we uh we had a good laugh for both. Alright, so describe um how you felt um how your feet felt most days.

Harper-Lee 14:38

Okay, so the first few days my feet were like fine. I uh I was mainly focusing on my backpack because my backpack was bothering me the first few days. But towards like the second week, my feet were really hurting. Like, okay, it wasn't that bad. Like I'm kind of describing it, like I'm overreacting right now, but it was my feet were just hurting more towards the second week. They weren't like that bad, like not as bad as I expected, but they still look were like um really sore.

Robert 15:04

So uh yeah, mine also. Actually, I have arthritic feet, so in the morning they they would be uh I would feel kind of some pain, and then as I walked it would warm up a bit, so but uh in both feet. Uh I was using a pair of um uh topos, T O P O's t T-O-P-O, and that's a type of sneaker that uh I found very, very helpful for my arthritic feet. And Harper, you uh were wearing Merrills, a brand new pair of Merles that were seemed to work pretty fine.

Harper-Lee 15:35

Yeah, they were nice. They had like the like I don't know what they're called, like the spikes at the bottom or something, and that made it helpful for like when we were walking on like rocky paths. But because like the shoes were kind of high, um, high because of the spikes, I kept tripping a lot, and at one point, um, a few days into the Camino we were on this path, then I started counting how many times I was falling.

Robert 15:58

You never really fell though.

Harper-Lee 15:59

Well, I didn't fall, but I like I would trip.

Robert 16:01

Right, right. Um okay, so what kind of an effect has the camino had on you if it has had any effect, and maybe more so what long-term effects do you think the camino will have on you in the future?

Harper-Lee 16:14

Well, before I had the like I started the Camino, I my I don't have like a I didn't have a really simple lifestyle, like that wasn't too long ago, it was only a few weeks ago. But like it was I just I felt like I needed things that I didn't, if that makes any sense. Um and then after the Camino I realized that like I really don't need that much. And that's definitely gonna like affect me as I get older, like okay, I don't do I need this. Like if I'm want something, do I need this? Like I'm always gonna be thinking of that before I get something.

Robert 16:46

That's a great question. Because a lot of times I'll buy a book that I didn't need and that I didn't read, or uh will I ever read it in the future? You can look around have all these books on my bookcases, um, or the bookshelves. So that's a great question for us in uh in the West because we tend to be very materialistic and we tend to buy almost impulse, impulse buying. So that's a great question. Do I need this? Will I use this? Is this something necessary? Does the Lord does God want me to have this? Uh will it enrich my life or make my life a little bit more complex? So that's a great question. I think that alone was worth the trip. All right, um So if you were to plan your perfect Camino, who would you go with? What would you bring? And when would you go? And now you don't know all the roots, but we were on the Camino Francaise. Um and how long would you like to be on the pilgrimage? So um who would you go with?

Harper-Lee 17:42

How many people do I have a max? Can I just pick anyone?

Robert 17:44

Yes.

Harper-Lee 17:45

Okay, so I would want to bring like a a friend, like someone who I can like talk and laugh with, because I noticed I would tend to get like really bored on like while walking, and I would just start thinking of a bunch, like I would think of my life in the future actually, and I would like tell you what I'm thinking of. Um yeah, and I'd yeah, I was yeah, and so like I would want to have someone who I can like talk and laugh with, you know, like make jokes with, just talk with while on the path. And then I would also want to bring my sisters, my younger sisters, because I feel like they would also make me like I could like laugh with them, like they would it would I just want someone to like you know be with. And then I would probably bring you and Mimi as well and my mother.

Robert 18:24

You have to drag us. We're so old. All right. So uh, and how long do you think because you you listened to uh you you spoke with um other pilgrims and they had been on the road for three, four weeks? How long would you like your future pilgrimage to be?

Harper-Lee 18:39

Ooh, um I would say like about three or four weeks. I think that's good.

Robert 18:45

Yeah, that's that's definitely um I think impactful. That's that's a long time to be on the road. Um Okay. So why do you think some people only do the Camino once and then there are others who keep coming back to the Camino, like your papa?

Harper-Lee 19:02

Well, it really depends on your lifestyle, like because some people don't do the Camino multiple times because they're I don't know, it's just like they're not used to like they're used to being able to take like a nice deep shower every night and like have their own bed, um, sleep in the same spot every night and like they're just very you know materialistic and like maybe like they're not used to walking that much. Like so people like on the first from my experience the first your first pilgrimage is like very difficult because like you're not used to what you're like you're doing. So that might be why they don't come back because like they're like, oh I'm not gonna be able to get used to this. So that might be why some people don't come back, and then other people might go back because they realize like, oh, this is like it's kind of a calling too in a way. Like it's like you you're like you know, you're being t told to do this in a way. I don't know if that makes sense, but um not like told by someone else, but like it's just it's a calling. And like maybe they wanna like be able to walk more and like have a healthier lifestyle as well, rather than just sitting down in bed all day like me now. Um and like just you know, they're they want their lifestyle to be like how it is on the Camino.

Robert 20:20

Okay, that's interesting. No, I understand I think the Lord calls people to pilgrimage, and I think oftentimes the um people on the Camino, because it's such a long and arduous trek, that they are called by God for some reason um that maybe is only known uh by God. Okay, what was the most memorable aspect of this Camino? Something that you won't forget.

Harper-Lee 20:44

You know when I said those two things at the funniest moment, those are like really funny, and like we got to like laugh and like it was just you said that those that uh the one time at Bandcam thing was really funny, like one of your most funny experiences. Um, so I'm not that's I'm probably not gonna forget that that was so it might not sound funny as I'm explaining it, but it was really funny in the moment.

Robert 21:06

Well, right, when that woman came up on my left, I I was like, Why I was laughing my head off because I wasn't singing for her. You know? Okay, so finally, how do you feel now that this experience that was promised to you for years is now fulfilled?

Harper-Lee 21:22

Um, I'm very happy that I got to do it at such a young age because I know people who are older than me um don't like get the chance to do that. So I'm glad that I am able to do that, like while other people can't, like I have that chance to be able to do something. Like, because how many people my age get to do that, like the Camino? Like it's just I'm glad that I'm able to do that. Wait, what was the question again though?

Robert 21:46

I forgot. Like, sorry. No, that was it. No, that's good. No, no, I'm glad that we actually that um it was planned and that you know we executed the uh pilgrimage and the the Lord allowed us to do it together, and it was a very special out of all 11 Caminos that I've done, that was probably the most special in its own way. I mean, I've done it with your you know, your with Mimi and with um a few other people, but it was a very special time and uh was it was a great blessing for me and I think for you also. And so, like always on the Camino, when you see another pogrom, what do you say?