Lake Doctor | A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast
Welcome to Lake Doctor: A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast, your go-to source for understanding and preserving the health of our local lakes. Join hosts Dr. Nate Bosch, an expert in limnology, and Suzie Light, a lifelong resident and passionate advocate for our aquatic environments, as they dive deep into the challenges facing Kosciusko County's lakes.
Dr. Nate Bosch grew up in Michigan and received his doctorate in 2007 from the University of Michigan in limnology. With 18 peer-reviewed publications spanning research from the Great Lakes to smaller inland lakes and streams, Nate has been awarded the prestigious Chandler Misner Award twice by the International Association of Great Lakes Research. At Grace College, Nate is a professor in the environmental science program, dean of the School of Science and Engineering, and leads the Lilly Center team, serving the local community with dedication and expertise.
Each episode tackles these critical issues head-on, featuring insightful interviews with our partners, engaging Q&A sessions, and fun segments for the science enthusiasts among us. You'll get a behind-the-scenes look at the impactful research and education efforts spearheaded by the Lilly Center and discover how we can all contribute to safeguarding our precious freshwater ecosystems.
Tune in bi-monthly starting June 2024, and join the conversation by leaving comments or emailing us at lakes@grace.eduwith your questions and ideas. Supported by the K21 Health Foundation, Rick and April Sasso, and DreamOn Studios, this podcast aims to inspire and inform the next generation of water-literate citizens and environmental stewards. Learn more about our work and how to support us at lakes.grace.edu.
Lake Doctor | A Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams Podcast
Hellbenders, Stingrays and Water Quality at the Fort Wayne Zoo with TJ Faur
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In this episode of The Lake Doctor Podcast, Suzie Light and Dr. Nate Bosch welcome TJ Faur, a Grace College alumnus and environmental quality technician at the Fort Wayne Zoo. TJ shares his journey from northern Indiana lakes to the zoo, where he focuses on water chemistry and quality for animals ranging from stingrays to eastern hellbenders.
He explains how environmental audits and long-term data collection lead to real improvements—like installing a simple fan to clear a CO₂ blanket over Stingray Bay and dramatically raising oxygen levels. TJ also details the zoo’s hellbender head-start collaborative conservation program with Purdue University, raising young hellbenders for release into southern Indiana rivers, and contrasts them with local mudpuppies.
The conversation highlights parallels with the Lilly Center’s work: using data to drive action, monitoring environmental parameters, and preparing the next generation of environmental stewards. Practical, insightful, and full of real-world examples, this episode shows how zoo water quality science connects directly to healthier lakes and streams.
Guest Bio: TJ has served as the environmental quality technician at the Fort Wayne Zoo since 2024. A graduate of Grace College, TJ has a passion for the outdoors, water sports, and water. As a student, TJ interned on the Lilly Center's aquarium team caring for aquatic critters. This experience serves him well in his role at the Fort Wayne Zoo where he ensures environmental quality (water, air, temperature, soil, humidity, noise) for all the animals at the zoo. In his free time, TJ enjoys competitive disc golf and ultimate frisbee.
Learn more about the Lilly Center's work at https://lakes.grace.edu/.
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Welcome And Today’s Big Theme
SPEAKER_01Welcome to this episode of the Lake Doctor Podcast. I'm Susie Light.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Dr.
SPEAKER_01Nate Bosch, my favorite lake nerd. What are we talking about today?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I'm so excited. We have one of my former students, TJ Fower. He is the environmental quality technician at the Fort Wayne Zoo. We're going to talk about one of the conservation projects that they're working on there and also talk about how data is so important for making decisions.
SPEAKER_01So his project might be a little hellish with a little ravioli on the side. Stay tuned. The doctor is in. So
TJ’s Path From Lakes To Zoo
SPEAKER_01first of all, tell us about you. Tell us about your journey to Grace College, and then to the zoo.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. First, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be back here in the Lily Center and being able to talk with you guys. Yeah, so I grew up in Auburn, Indiana. Um, I went to school with Ryan Workman. Um he was a few years older than me. Another guest on the podcast. Yes. Yep. So northern Indiana. Um been around northern Indiana all my life. And I traveled to Michigan, Coldwater Lake in Michigan. Um, and that's kind of where the love for the outside, the environment was started. Um my grandma has a cottage up there, and so being able to just be out on the water um started my love. And that's why I've always kind of known that I've wanted to do something environmental. When I was younger, I thought I wanted to work with animals. Um, I've kind of grown out of that, and now more I enjoy like the ecosystem as a whole. Um, and so in high school, I was able to have some great experiences just um at the zoo as a volunteer and then at the Shed Aquarium as an intern. And from there I was deciding where to go to school, and I was between Purdue going through their forestry program and Grace College. So my sister came to Grace in education. So I was very familiar with um the campus and the people, and I loved visiting her. Um, but I thought forestry and Purdue was more where I wanted to go. And then as I prayed about it, as I went visited Purdue, I just kept leaning more and more towards Grace, and then had a few conversations with Dr. Bosch, and then eventually applied and came here. And we're so glad you did.
SPEAKER_01We are so glad you did. And when you were here, you were part of the aquarium project, yes?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I was on the aquarium team for the Lily Center for three and a half years.
SPEAKER_01And did you visit area schools or businesses?
SPEAKER_00Yep. So part of my role as the aquarium team is um we went out and maintained those fish tanks that are out in schools, libraries, and any businesses that are part of the program.
SPEAKER_01So water was an important part of your journey, and it still is. Tell us about your job at the zoo now.
SPEAKER_00Yes, my title is the environmental quality technician, um, but my focus is water quality. Um, so my day-to-day involves a lot of water chemistry. All of the water at the zoo comes to us at some point or another, and we maintain it to make sure it's clean, healthy, safe for the animals.
SPEAKER_02That's sounding similar to the mission of the Lilly Center for Lakes and Streams.
SPEAKER_01Well, in so many ways, Nate. So it looks like you're collecting a lot of data. Do you collect data over time and what what does that tell you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we monitor data, it's all um into our ZIMS database. And ZIMS, yep, that's the database. I'm pretty sure. Okay. Wow, that's great. Acronym translation, Susie. Yeah, if I were to guess, that's probably right. Um, so we can get collect all of our data in there and then go back historically, and then all of our keeper notes are also in there, so we can kind of see and correlate what we have a spike um in a specific parameter every Tuesday, and then we can look at the keeper notes, what happens every Tuesday, and then correlate that. And then we also, Dr. Jean, uh, my predecessor and current counterpart, she created what we call environmental audits. So our goal is once a year, we will take an enclosure and then take all the data we have for it, put it into an audit, and then it will see how often are we meeting our ideal ranges in that enclosure. And then so this was very beneficial because we might the keepers might notice the that temperature was low here and there, but we didn't really know how
Building A Culture Of Water Data
SPEAKER_00often is it low and is it an actual problem. So this tells us yes, temperature was low 80% of the time or 20% of the time. Um so that kind of points out where we can improve all of our enclosures. So to get specific, we have our Stingray Bay exhibit. Um, it's a touch tank currently housing um southern stingrays, cow nose stingrays, and flagtail fish.
SPEAKER_02I love that exhibit. It's so much fun. Even as a 46-year-old, putting my hand in the water and feeling the stingrays swim by is really cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we have been collecting data for that exhibit for a while. We did an environmental audit in 2024, so before I arrived at the zoo, and that told us our oxygen was low, our nitrates were consistently high, and our phosphates were consistently high. So after taking that audit, we made a few changes. We adjusted some of our backwash protocols and timing and how often, and then we also wanted to adjust our low oxygen, and it wasn't super low, but it was out of that ideal range more often than we would like. So then we Dr. Jean theorized that there was a blanket of CO2 collecting over the water. So she had her little CO2 monitor where it was normal outside, became she walked into the building, was normal inside the building, and then did it right above above the water, and she saw an increase in CO2 right above the water. So she theorized that gas exchange could not happen, and so oxygen could not get into the water, resulting in low oxygen.
SPEAKER_01It's too many kids heavy breathing.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, so the change that she recommended was a simple fan. Um installed, it's still there up at the top right of the exhibit, and that blows the CO2 off. And once that was installed, we saw an instant rise in oxygen levels.
SPEAKER_02That's so cool. When I saw that fan there um just uh recently, I just sort of thought, oh, that's just to kind of keep the water cooler or something like that, but it's to blow off that excess CO2.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Wow. So then we can look at our 2024 environmental audit and our 2025 environmental audit, and there's a drastic difference. Um, the audit gives a score out of five on how well we are doing. So the 2024 audit was around a 2.7, maybe, and the 2025 was up to a 4.2, um, somewhere in that range.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that sounds just like what we do at the Lilly Center. We put out an annual report called Beneath the Surface, uh, specifically to uh 16 different lakes that we sample weekly during the summer months, and we do an audit. We look at how is it this year compared to last year? How many times is it over certain parameters? And I love then how that audit leads to action. Uh, we have the same intention here at the Lily Center where this data we've collected is leading to action through our Lake RX program where we can fix some of the problems that the data shows. And then I love that then you can go back and see it was here and now it's here, and you can actually confirm that the action that you took then actually made that system better in the future. And we would expect continual monitoring as part of Lake IRX as well. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we're very thankful to have Dr. Gene on the team. Um, she is very smart.
SPEAKER_02That's good to have smart people around. Yep. So uh our mission at the Lily Center for Lakes and Streams is that our lakes and streams will be clean, healthy, safe, and beautiful. And so very fun to see the comparisons there. You're looking at that from a uh zoo standpoint so that your animals there at the zoo can be healthy and flourish and people can learn about them. And we're doing that in our uh natural ecosystems here in northern Indiana as well.
SPEAKER_01But you're also growing students to go out into the world in different kinds of environmental sciences, and that is huge. So thanks, TJ, for being one of those strong advocates for environmental sciences.
SPEAKER_02And I'll have to say that I've gotten to visit TJ now twice at the Fort Wayne Zoo in his role there, and I just couldn't be more proud of him. It's so much fun to have him uh take myself and some of our other staff members around the Lilly Center and show us all of the different aquatic environments that he has responsibility over and him talking about, you know, well, we had to troubleshoot this and and we're promoting this and and we're gonna be changing this, and we do a great job here with this. And um it's it's really it was kind of a uh proud several moments there going around with him, and he's doing such a great job, even young in his career there and Fort Wayne Zoo. You said it earlier, Susie, is really a top-notch zoo, and we're so fortunate to have it here in northern Indiana. Uh, my family and I just went there just a few weeks ago and uh spent the day and had just a wonderful time.
SPEAKER_01Well, I've been going to that zoo for over 50 years, and it's neat to see the changes that have been happening. And I imagine you are driving some of
Stingray Bay Audit And The Fan Fix
SPEAKER_01those. So one of the um props that we have on the table is something that you're very familiar with. It it kind of looks muddy. It kind of looks maybe like a leftover of the dinosaur era. But tell us about tell us about those unique animals.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So in front of us we have a hellbender, an eastern hellbender, and a mud puppy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, they're models, they're not the real things, guys. Yes.
SPEAKER_00They do look pretty lifelike though.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like if you love those, you've got a unique taste.
SPEAKER_00Yes, so um a big part of the zoo's mission is conservation, and our current conservation project is the Eastern Hellbender. So we are working with Purdue um and as a part of their research project, and um, it's called a Head Start program. So we go and collect eggs from the wilds, we grow them up, hatch them, um, give them a few years to get big and strong, and then re-release them into the water um and to the habitats that we they were taken from.
SPEAKER_01Where do you have to collect eggs from?
SPEAKER_00They have to be taken from where there's existing populations, and that is pretty much only where there's good water quality in rivers. Um, so there's a spot in Ohio and then the Blue River down in southern Indiana.
SPEAKER_02And so we would call these bioindicator species, right? Because they're very susceptible to different environmental problems. And so the where they still are surviving is an indicator that the quality there is really, really good. But as we continue to do conservation uh across the landscape uh in the Midwestern United States, we're moving some of those degraded streams towards uh being better quality again, and so now they're uh able to support these hellbenders, um, whereas once they weren't able to because of some of the degradation, and so it's a success story that we can then put them back because they're not able to get there themselves to those areas that have gotten better again, and so you guys kind of help them out with your partners at Purdue. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is cool, and it it's I imagine you've got this big team that helps you do this, but you know, people like me who go to the zoo and we see the animal exhibits, we don't necessarily understand the conservation role that you're playing. So if you can delve into that a little bit more and tell us about the team that you have that goes to do these things.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we are all a part of the veterinary staff. Um, so while I'm not medical, I'm technically under the vet staff. Um, there's two of us in environmental quality. It's me and Dr. Gene Ealick. And then in our conservation side, we have Dave Mesman is our conservation specialist. And so we all um Dave does all the hard work, hard labor to help uh maintain these Hellbender exhibits, and um we help them out where we can. We're water quality, and water quality is very important to Hellbender, so we work very closely together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I've been able to meet those uh colleagues of TJ's there at the zoo, and it's really fun. We on on the podcast here used the word nerd affectionately, right? You're a lake nerd, yes. That's an affectionate. These were definitely nerdy people that we got to meet over there at the zoo, and uh I just remember particularly with Dave, just his passion for these critters, these hellbenders, was just so apparent. And he just wanted to keep talking and talking about them. And um, as as you alluded to, Susie, you look at them and they're maybe not particularly attractive animals, um, but but his passion for them and helping them get out there in the environment. And TJ, you're more on the role of looking at the water that they're in, and how how so so how do you keep the water clean for these guys as you're growing them up, getting ready to put them out in the natural environment?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we have cycled enclosures, so we are monitoring the nitrogen cycle, that's the most important um part of that side of the job. And then um, so I work with Dave. Um, we have a strict range protocol where for every exhibit at the zoo where we monitor water quality, um, the every parameter that we test has an ideal range and then an acceptable range and then action range, and then when a parameter gets into the action range, we have steps to take. So what the keepers can do to get it back into ideal, and then we have our emergency ranges, um, which just have more aggressive steps. Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01So keeping nitrogen out of water is important and having healthy water, like they're an indicator, like the canary in the coal mine, right? They're indicator that the water's healthy. In our area in Casasco County, we don't have hellbenders, right? But we do have other species that that are also indicative indicative of good water quality.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and we have that on the table in front of us as well. That's the mud puppy, uh, related to the hellbender. These are both uh salamanders that are aquatic, meaning that they live their life uh under the water as opposed to some terrestrial salamanders. And the mud puppy is not quite as large as the hellbender. Mud puppies are here in northern Indiana, whereas the hellbenders would just be in southern Indiana. And um, we have Mabel, the mud puppy, that lives here at the Lily Center in one of our aquariums, and you cared for her as a student here, and she's uh doing well. I think actually she might be getting a little less shy as she uh grows up here at the Lily Center. I see her out uh out and about a little bit more and able to sort of be seen by uh thousands of K-12 kids that come through the building here on an annual basis. And so difference when we look at them, and maybe you can speak to this a little bit, TJ, but uh a big difference
Hellbender Head Start Conservation Work
SPEAKER_02I see one is the size, although the mud puppy that we have here on our table uh is a little smaller than what Mabel is, or what the total size would be of a mud puppy. Um, but you also start to you can notice a little bit different coloration. Mabel's a little bit smoother, doesn't have all of the wrinkles that the hellbender would have. But also the mud puppy has these gills that are external to the body, kind of these frilly um uh appendages coming just just below the the base of of the head. And that's that's an uh a very specific, unique part of the of the mud puppy, and those gills, that's where the mud puppy is pulling in oxygen out of the water, just like a fish would have gills to pull oxygen out of the water and be able to uh breathe underwater, so too. The mud puppies do that, but it's just that the gills are outside. So the hellbender then must have gills internal to its body somehow.
SPEAKER_00Hellbenders have no external gills, and if you can see the side of the mud puppy um has these flaps, almost looks like ravioli. Yeah. So that's to increase its surface area.
SPEAKER_02So TJ's holding up the hellbender right now. For those of you who are listening, this might be a good plug to say maybe you want to watch this on uh YouTube instead of just uh listening. So okay, continue on.
SPEAKER_00Yep. So the ravioli flaps, that is not an actual term. Scientific term. Yep. Um ravioli flaps. They increase the surface area for the skin of the hellbender to help um be able to take up more oxygen. So they have no external gills, which means they have to take up oxygen through their skin, and that is the purpose of these flaps. Wow. And also frills.
SPEAKER_01Are they frills?
SPEAKER_02Flaps.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02The ravioli frills or flaps. Excess skin. I also remember when we were there at the zoo, uh, Dave was telling us that it's really important for them to have high oxygen concentration in the water, high dissolved oxygen in the water. And could that be in part because they've got to absorb it through their skin? And if there's not a lot of oxygen around them in the environment, they're gonna have a tough time getting enough oxygen to survive since it has to come across uh their skin. So while they have the adaptation or the design feature of having these ravioli, I can't say it with a straight face, but having these ravioli uh frills or flaps um gives them more surface area that still they need to have a lot of oxygen, which is one of those water quality features that has been degraded in a lot of our uh lakes and streams across Indiana and throughout the Midwest. So that makes them uh a little less uh able to survive in some locations.
SPEAKER_00Yes. This year we are blessed. So the entire project, um Hellbender Project, which which includes Indianapolis, Louisville, Mesker Park Zoo, and a few others. Um, every Hellbender being released is coming from Fort Wayne Zoo. So we have over 200 Hellbenders being released in southern Indiana this year. How old are they? Three to four years is the average of ours.
SPEAKER_01Three to four-year-old hellbender is going to be about five inches long, six inches?
SPEAKER_00Probably up to seven, eight. Okay, so not quite as big as big as this one.
SPEAKER_02Maybe closer to the mud puppy size that we have on our table.
SPEAKER_00Yep, maybe a little bit bigger than the mud puppy. Okay.
SPEAKER_01And then what's the lifespan of a hellbender?
SPEAKER_00That is a great question. And I don't have a great answer for you.
SPEAKER_02That's always good in science if you don't know the answer to certain things.
SPEAKER_01It gives you more opportunity to do some learning, right?
SPEAKER_02Research, right? Yeah, more research. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Speaking of research, um, when you were here at Grace College, you were part of a team that was doing some data collection. What was your favorite lab with Dr. Bosch?
SPEAKER_00My favorite lab has to be the bog. Um, going out and attempting to get data um of the water beneath the bog. Um, just all the troubleshooting and all the different methods we tried while we were out there was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that was a lot of fun. So uh we had uh Jason Kissel here on the podcast uh during season two, and he leads Acres Land Trust, and Acres Land Trust was the um the owner uh of this particular bog that we went to, and uh just a wonderful time. And I've been there year after year with my students, and the the way the bog works is you have this phagnum peat mat on the top, and then you've got water underneath it. And um we've we've wanted to sample what that water is like under the moss mat that we're all standing on. And as we walk, it's kind of like you know, moving up and down. You can sort of feel the the waves in the water. Uh so we know the water is under there, but we can't get any of our scientific instruments down into the water, and so uh Uh Susie and I have a picture of TJ in front of us right here on the table of him holding up this really muddy PVC pipe because we had this idea in TJ. Yes. Okay. So so we, I mean, the the first year we just sort of tried to push the mat aside with our hands, and then the instruments just kept getting caught in that moss. The next year, um, we had a student that was kind of putting their feet in there to try to press it apart and try to get instruments, and that wasn't working. We had someone actually in a hole in the mat kind of thrashing around as they're holding themselves up. That didn't work. Uh TJ's year, yes, we had this PVC pipe, and we're like, oh well, if we get the PVC pipe through the mat, we can put the instrument through the middle of the PVC pipe. Didn't work. We did not get it. Nope. So how close, how close did we get that year?
SPEAKER_00I thought it would be pretty close. Uh-huh. Um, I mean we got the PVC pipe all the way down, and then the probe went through the PVC pipe. Well, we thought was down into the water, but we just couldn't get readings out of it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I think it was the year after TJ's, then we got a smaller PVC pipe to go inside the bigger PVC pipe to try to push all of the debris out of the larger PVC pipe, and uh debris just kept coming into it, and so so it remains an ongoing uh an ongoing uh sort of mystery to see what that water is like under the mat of that bog.
SPEAKER_01You had an interesting journey to get here. What would you say to students that are thinking
Mudpuppies Hellbenders And Oxygen Basics
SPEAKER_01about about their educational journey and their interest maybe in the environment?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, start early and get involved. Um I believe I was talking with my dad early high school, um, talking about my desire to be environmental something, had no idea where I wanted to go at that point. And he just gave me the advice of look online, try and find opportunities. And so from that, I became a volunteer at the Fort Wayne Zoo, um, was part of their Teens for Nature program for three years. And then I also found the research project for the Shed Aquarium, so the high school lake ecology. Um, we did a research project up in the Apostle Islands, and so did that for a summer, and that was really fun. And then working here at the Lilly Center was a part of the aquarium team, and then Dr. Bosch also helped get me to connect with the DNR and working with the fisheries biologist of northern Indiana, and I spend a summer with them just out on the water and learning more about our lakes and how to manage them. So pretty much start early and get involved.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it's uh I think it's so important for youngsters if they're thinking about moving in this direction, is to get some of those early experiences because you can think theoretically of what it's like to work in an environmental career, and you may be way wrong. And so you might try it and realize you it's not like what you had thought it would be. You may try it and confirm even more, like in TJ's case, that this is what you love and this is what you want to do. I I tell my students all the time that my goal for you is that you have a career where you are excited to get up for work each day, um, to go and and have an impact. And uh so it can be really rewarding. But I would uh totally agree with TJ that start early, confirm those directions, see if that's something that you really want to go into. And um I I think whether we're talking about labs in college classes or we're talking about those earlier experiences, what I think those experiences do is it helps inspire. Um, because sometimes things can be hard in environmental careers. We've got challenges that are hard to overcome, and and we need that inspiration, that sort of love, that passion that got us into this field. We need we need to to have that continue to fuel us, and then also those experiences I think help prepare, um, help prepare for that future career. I'm I'm sure you have this. I know I have this uh in my own life, where you're working on a new project or you've got something, and you sort of look back in the rearview mirror of your life, and it's like, oh, I had this experience or I learned this back there, and that's actually helping me right now, which I think is is God's providence and him kind of helping prepare so there's not wasted steps. But regardless of how you would look at that, the it's interesting that we can see these these uh pieces, these building blocks to get us to who we are today, and then and then we have those experiences that we can rely on for what we're currently facing.
SPEAKER_01You know, we talk a lot here on the podcast about stewardship and stewardship of the environment, stewardship of the water. Um what you're talking about, Nate, is stewardship of your own life direction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. A new application to that stewardship idea. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, TJ, tell us about how data collection helps you. We know that it helps the Lily Center. How does it help you in your work?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So almost everything we do um over in the lab is data driven. We get asked questions a lot by the vet
Field Science Stories And Bog Troubleshooting
SPEAKER_00staff or our keepers and or our management staff. Um pretty much about everything, and we want to be able to support our recommendations or be able to help them, and all of that comes from the data we collect. So we talked about our range protocols a little bit. Um so for every parameter we have our ranges, and then what are some of those parameters that you guys are testing for? Yeah, so for the sake of simplicity, we have two different types of exhibits that we test for. We have our cycled exhibits, which would be our nitrogen cycle, including our hellbenders and all of our fish. And then we also have our chlorinated exhibits, which we which would be more of our marine mammals, so our pinnipeds, our otters, sea lions, and um penguins or are some of our marine mammals. And then for our chlorinated exhibits, we test chlorine to make sure we're not overchlorinating, but we also test coliform to make sure we are disinfecting enough so the water is safe for the animals. And then for our cycled exhibits, we monitor the nitrogen cycle. So, most importantly, ammonia, uh making sure that our biofiltration is keeping up processing that ammonia, processing it into nitrites and then into nitrates, and then we can, depending on our amount of nitrates, will tell us how often we need water changes and backwashing our filters. And so those are just a few.
SPEAKER_02And those uh the nitrogen cycling is something that you worked on a lot when you were here at the Lily Center as well with our aquariums, because we have that same sort of nitrogen cycle at work in I think we've got around 90 aquariums. Yes. And so that's a lot of nitrogen cycles to keep track of. And so you were well prepared then moving uh into the zoo environment um to be able to look after those cycles. So can you speed that cycle up or slow it down? Or you just have to make sure that it's continually cycling to keep the the animals safe? Like what are sort of the you had talked about ranges and and you can get involved. What are sort of the the ways that you can you get the data and then you you do something with the data as a result? Like what are some levers or knobs you can change to actually make something better in the exhibit based on the data you get?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So for the nitrogen cycle specifically, we want to make sure our biofiltration is running properly. And if we're noticing that it's not keeping up, so we're seeing residual ammonia or the nitrites aren't processing fast enough, then we can make changes by adding more surface area, so more bioballs or increased biofiltration, just the size. And then we can also add more aeration since that process of converting ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates requires oxygen and alkalinity. So we can make sure both of those parameters are up enough that it is not impeding the uh process of transforming those.
SPEAKER_02Let's dig into that a little bit. So you mentioned bioballs. So those are those rubber, spiky little balls that maybe some aquarium hobbyists uh would recognize. And those are all about having lots of surface area that bacteria can colonize, and those bacteria are the ones that are making that transition possible, right? Yeah from the ammonia to the nitrite to the nitrate. Yep. And then you also said oxygen. So little uh chemistry lesson for you here, Susie, on the set would be um, so ammonia would be NH3. So notice there's no oxygen in the chemical formula, just nitrogen and hydrogen. And then we go to NO2, which is nitrite with an I has two oxygens. And then we go to nitrate, NO3 has three oxygens. So notice how what TJ was saying, you add oxygen. Oxygen. Yeah, and then those those uh other per nitrogen parameters are less harmful than to those uh critters. So you want to move it from ammonia towards the nitrate to be uh healthier.
SPEAKER_01The bacteria on that spiky ball actually eats the ammonia?
SPEAKER_02No, it's it's converting it with in the presence of oxygen. It's uh bacteria, we would call them aerobic bacteria because they need oxygen as opposed to anaerobic bacteria. And with those aerobic bacteria, we're able to move it along that progression
Ranges Protocols And The Nitrogen Cycle
SPEAKER_02towards the nitrate.
SPEAKER_01So we're gonna have a couple of days here of really hot weather. Does the air temperature or the wind or other things factor into the your data collection?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so uh oxygen is inversely proportionate to um temperature. So as our heat goes up, our oxygen decreases, which could affect our biofiltration and not work as efficiently. Thankfully, we're all closed systems, so then um we have heating and cooling systems on every system that needs it, and we don't notice too much of a change in our um enclosures with the change in outdoor temperature.
SPEAKER_01So I'm thinking about the penguin exhibit because uh you know we always visit the penguin exhibit when we go to the zoo, and you've got all these lovely penguins that are diving into the water and doing acrobatics and then getting up and then sliding back into the water, but that doesn't seem like it's a closed system, is it?
SPEAKER_00That would be one of our chlorinated systems. Okay. Um, so we don't rely on the nitrogen cycle for our penguin exhibit, we rely on a chlorinator um to keep the water clean.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I get it.
SPEAKER_02And that water is probably is it chilled? So is that can the penguins kind of cool off when they get in the water, or is the water just a function of the air temperature around it in the penguin exhibit?
SPEAKER_00I do not know if we have a chiller on that system. Okay. We do dump and fill often, so and generally the water we use to fill is a little cooler. Okay, all right. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_02And going back to our hellbenders, yeah, we talked about them needing high oxygen, and what TJ just said is interesting about how oxygen's inversely correlated with water temperature. So if we need high oxygen, here's a quiz for you, Susie. Does that mean we would need cold water or warm water where these hellbenders live?
SPEAKER_01Hmm, I'm guessing lukewarm water.
SPEAKER_02Nope, cold water. You tried to uh get out of it with a compromised position. But uh yeah, so we need so cold water holds more oxygen, and so since hellbenders need a lot of oxygen, they're gonna be found in colder water streams, which is another reason why um why they they can have some difficulty because uh there's not a lot of cold water streams. A lot of streams uh get pretty warm in the summer months.
SPEAKER_01So we have Tippi River here, southern Indiana has Blue River. I'm thinking southern Indiana is warmer than northern Indiana. How come we don't have Hellbenders in Tippy River?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's gonna depend on a few factors. So you can have cold water rivers even as you go further south, if those rivers are being fed by spring water, because in Indiana, either even in southern Indiana, I love going spelunking, and TJ got to to do that uh when he was a student here at Grace. Um, our our ground water, our ground temperature in Indiana is 54 degrees Fahrenheit. So if you've got water coming out of that 54 degree ground temperature, the water is going to be around 54 degrees. And so if it's a if it's what we would call a groundwater fed stream, it's gonna be a cold stream. And uh if it's a surface water fed stream, maybe water's running across the surface of the ground or water's coming out of a lake uh and it's coming off the surface of the lake is kind of what's overflowing uh into the stream, then that's gonna be a much warmer stream during the summer months when when the air temperature is so warm. Sometimes you can get a cool water stream even after a lake, if the water coming into the stream is coming from a deeper water depth in the lake rather than the surface water, which is going to be warmer.
SPEAKER_01And a lot of the research that you're doing here at the Lily Center is collecting data that talks about oxygen levels and temperature. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes, and the relations to uh nutrients. So yeah, that's that's another uh an or another correlation between what they're doing at the zoo and what we're doing here at the Lily Center and some of our natural environments. You need data to make good decisions. And we're embarking on this new program here at the Lily Center called Lake RX, where we're developing custom prescriptions for individual lakes and how to fix the problems that our data is showing. And those solutions are evidence-based. We we need to know there's evidence there to support a solution before we're gonna implement that decision. And then, just like TJ does at the zoo, we're gonna continue to monitor the data to see what we're doing, if it's working or not. Just like when when they add more bioballs to see better uh cycling, and then they're gonna watch it. Is it working or do we have to add more in the same way? Uh, we'll be tracking wetlands and see, okay, is that reducing nitrogen phosphorus coming into our lakes? Oh, it's not doing it enough yet. We need to add more wetlands, or we got to change this particular wetland and the design of it to help uh make those ecosystems even better. So uh it's all data driven, and so that's really fun that that the the zoo does that, and and we do that here too.
SPEAKER_01So your students that are coming to the Lily Center at Grace College are graduating with environmental degrees. TJ, your degree was in environmental science. Okay. And you're now monitoring water, you're helping a really important asset in our state, the Fort Wayne Zoo. Um what other types of careers do students have with an environmental degree?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so we have a number of them. Probably I'd put them in three categories. So we have students who go out into the public sector, that would be in government agency jobs. So maybe United States Department of Agriculture, United States Environmental Protection Agency at the state level, uh, Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Indiana Department of Environmental Management, County level parks and recreation, health department, city level, stormwater, and helping manage stormwater. And then the next major category would be private. Um, and that would be for-profit companies, maybe uh maybe working for an attorney office in environmental law. Uh, it could be working for an environmental consulting company, it could be working for um wildlife control. Yes, it could be it could be working um in in wastewater. That would probably be more on the on the government side again. Uh it could be in agriculture, research, and development, and then you have the nonprofit side, and I think Fort Wayne Zoo is a non is a nonprofit, right? A 501c3. And so we have lots of roles in those as well. And um, those could be school corporations being in education
Environmental Careers And Hands-On College Paths
SPEAKER_02as well. And so we can prepare students into all three of those positions. We have three different environmental majors: environmental biology, environmental science, and environmental studies. Uh TJS he said, graduated with environmental science. And I think it might be important here to mention for youngsters or parents or grandparents of youngsters that are listening to this and kind of thinking about hey, my grandson or my son or my or myself personally, um uh or daughter or granddaughter has uh an interest in environmental stuff. Well, well, what sorts of things um might they need to think about if they're thinking about college? Well, one, we've already talked about it, hands-on. So be looking for a college that is hands-on, where you're gonna literally get your hands dirty and your feet wet. Wet. And uh and and uh you're you're going to be inspired to continue to move in that direction. And you're learning field skills that will be beneficial to you in your career. You're learning laboratory skills, uh, all of these things hands-on. That's going to be so critical. Certainly, there needs to be some foundational concept knowledge and some textbook knowledge, but they're even more so needs to be uh hands-on experience working outside in the field. And that's that's definitely an important part of our program here at Grace College. The other thing I would say is looking for the right size program. You know, TJ was talking about earlier, he was debating a large public university and a small Christian college, right? And I'd like to think that where we are here with Grace, we've got the best of both worlds. At Grace, we our environmental science program is large enough that we have all of these great opportunities with the Lily Center and research and these things that we've been talking about, but we're small enough that we get to know each one of our students as an individual. And each of those students gets a tailor-made program to get them ready for what their career is going to be. Notice TJ talked about how we got him an internship with the DNR, with a fisheries biologist. And so knowing what his interests were long-term for his career, we made that possible for him, not for all of our students, but for him because that was an important direction that he wanted to go. And then the last thing I think that we do well, and I and I would suggest people look for in a college program would be one that offers internship and research opportunities. Gone are the days where you can just get a great environmental job because you have a degree and you have some classes from a transcript script. No, now you need to have a resume already built by the time you graduate from college. And TJ kind of talked through his resume a little bit. It's a pretty impressive. He was able to get a really impressive job right out of college at the Fort Wayne Zoo because that resume was already built. He had internships, several different internships he mentioned. He had research experience, and uh that helped set him up really well. Even entry-level jobs require several years of work experience. And so that seems well, well, how could it be entry-level if it requires work experience? Well, that's the reality of environmental positions today. TJ, through his time working here at the Lilly Center, he said he worked here three and a half years. He already had three and a half years of work experience, worked here uh during that time, worked in summers doing internships as well. And so he was able to get a wonderful position. And that's what we provide for our students at Grace.
SPEAKER_01You know, I think I'm gonna add two well, one thing, wrapped up in two things. You also are innovative and a collaborator. So the innovation, not just the creation of the Lily Center, but also the Lake Dr. Rx, which will be an opportunity for your students to add to their student resume of job experience. And you collaborate when you look at all of the entities that you're working with, including those public institutions. Um so kudos to you and TJ, kudos to you. I I think your mom and dad and grandparents just supposed to be overjoyed. One that you're creatively employed in your degree, like, oh yay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01As a grandparent, I'm going, oh yeah.
Final Encouragement And Sign-Off
SPEAKER_01Oh, and you obviously love what you do. So congratulations. And I'm so glad that your journey has led you back to being able to share your experience with us at the Lake Doctor Podcast. So I would invite our guests to tune in to the next Lake Doctor Podcast when the doctor is in.