Recovery Unfiltered
Taking recovery discussion to a different level. Bringing comedy and the lighter side of sober living along with educating non-alcoholics and alcoholics. Hear real stories unfiltered.
Recovery Unfiltered
Through Her Eyes: What It's Like to Love an Alcoholic
What happens when the spotlight turns to those who've weathered addiction's fiercest storms—not as alcoholics themselves, but as the wives who stayed? In this powerful episode, hosts Larry and Rob invite their wives, Katie and Bonnie, to share their side of the recovery story.
Katie reveals how family vacations became sources of resentment rather than joy as everything centered around Larry's next drink. "I had just become independent... doing my own thing," she explains, detailing the subtle isolation that crept into their marriage. Meanwhile, Bonnie shares her initial denial, believing her husband couldn't possibly be an alcoholic because "he never missed a day of work" and "never missed a paycheck"—until a hospital visit where doctors asked Rob if he had "a friend who could walk your daughter down the aisle, because you'll never make it."
The conversation takes unexpected turns as both women describe discovering hundreds of hidden bottles, witnessing medical crises, and making difficult decisions about their futures. When Larry entered treatment during COVID, Katie faced skepticism from counselors who claimed her husband "hadn't bought into the program," creating new worries about their financial stability and path forward.
Yet behind these hardships emerges a profound story of transformation. Both wives unhesitatingly prefer the men their husbands became through sobriety—men who learned to feel deeply, communicate openly, and love authentically. As Larry shares, "The love I have for her now is just... I never felt that before."
Whether you're supporting someone in recovery or navigating your own journey, this intimate glimpse into marriage after addiction offers both comfort and hope. The road isn't easy, but as these couples prove, relationships can emerge from addiction's shadow stronger and more genuine than ever before.
Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. recoveryunfilteredpodcast@gmail.com
Jesus.
Speaker 2:I can't work like this. Go to work.
Speaker 1:I can't work like this shit.
Speaker 3:You sit on the toilet. Don't you Use that as your meditation?
Speaker 1:Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to this podcast.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Covering Up Builders. I'm Larry.
Speaker 4:I'm an alcoholic.
Speaker 3:I'm Rob, I'm also an alcoholic. We are not professionals. That's the end of it. Rob Good, thank God of it. Rob good, no thank god.
Speaker 1:However, you will hear fact, I'm over it.
Speaker 3:Hi rob, hey, buddy, I am not going another step until you brag about your son. I don't brag. Come on, don't be like that why? Well, you already sent it out to but you brag asshole, brag about your son.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'll brag about come on, my son is 20 years old. Uh-huh. He loves the lord. He's a hard worker. He's got great character. He really can't lie. He starts crying if he does. He's a stud on the mat. He just won a belt, yeah boy. You know I went through character before.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 1:That's why I mean, regardless of what he does on or off the mat, I'm proud of who he is Much more than what he does, but he's a proud daddy right there that was fun.
Speaker 3:That was fun for me to see that picture when you sent it to me. I was sitting in the middle of the meeting that you didn't go to. I was sitting in the middle of the meeting and I saw that and I was like, oh yeah, that's going on instagram. You know we don't put a whole lot of pictures of you up there, so when I get an opportunity, I wouldn't either.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you're a handsome little prick so I put you up on there every once in a while oh, my wife thinks so hey, yes, we are number 52 right here. Baby, this one right here is going to drop on july. Oh crap, I knew I was going to do that. I think it's july. Is it july 3rd?
Speaker 1:which is I don't know. I'm guessing.
Speaker 3:No, it's gonna. We dropped our first one last year on July 7th. Okay, this one's going to drop on July 9th. No, I'm sorry, no, no, no, I'm sorry, you're right, it's the second.
Speaker 2:Wednesday.
Speaker 3:So we were both wrong. Whatever, we're both wrong. So we had my number two, we had my number one, and now we're going to do our wives.
Speaker 4:This is something you and I've spoke about since the very beginning two wives we should open that chapter to the wives, to the wives we'll take over and everyone will want to watch us, not them and you want to introduce your wife, then I'll introduce mine this is bonnie, my wife of 20.
Speaker 1:how many years? Five, 25 years, well, 25 years married.
Speaker 4:Or four, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:Five 2001., 24.
Speaker 4:There you go 25 years together 24 years married Attaboy.
Speaker 3:So this is my lovely wife, miss Katie. You've heard us talk about both of them multiple times, but this is my pretty wife Katie. We started dating her junior year and my senior year in 1988. And we got married May 18th 1991.
Speaker 1:34 years, that'd be my freshman year in high school. Hi baby.
Speaker 2:That's why it seems so crazy to hear you're married in 2001. We were married 10 years. We've gone through some shit already.
Speaker 3:We got married as kids.
Speaker 1:That's the year I graduated 91.
Speaker 3:91? Yeah, we got married as kids. That's the year I graduated, 91. 91? Yeah, we got married as children. We were little, we were not I mean, we were children, good grief.
Speaker 1:You were, we were young, she probably wasn't, oh, I was juvenile delinquent still.
Speaker 2:Two and a half months after she turned 18.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that was back in the 20s.
Speaker 1:Sorry Mom, sorry Mom. What were you 20? Sorry Mom, I love you. It was in the 60s. What 20? She was 21? A whole different time.
Speaker 3:I was 91. I was 21.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, no, you were almost 21. You were going to be 21 next month.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm May 18th and my birthday's, june 18th, wasn't even legal to drink no no 21 yeah, he was 20 really and turned 21 in june young buck. Yeah, told you we were kids. Yeah, we were kids, we had kids at kids. Yeah, I mean it was rough, but you know what?
Speaker 3:here's the thing look, look where we are today I'm gonna tell you right now I mean, I told you guys, when I fell in love with that girl right, she sat across from me in the hospital in the hospital yeah, wearing a miniskirt, and I saw her white panties. I was like ladies I was like, yeah, that's my girl, right there, I'm marrying her. She was trying to be discreet, but I'm a perv, so I had no problem. I had no problem.
Speaker 1:what well the reason why you and I are both here with our wives, dr Bob's Nightmare says for some reason, we alcoholics seem to have the gift of picking out the world's finest women.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah.
Speaker 1:Why they should be subjected to the tortures we inflict upon them. I cannot explain. You guys are crazy to put up with the shit we've done. Crazy, crazy, Hold on.
Speaker 4:You act like we knew going into it yeah, I know that.
Speaker 3:That's what it was gonna be right, yeah well, katie had glimpses of it in high school. For me, I mean, you've known me since I was six or five and you didn't know any better to run.
Speaker 1:She was hoping I turned out like my dad. Let's be honest, I've heard these stories oh, I loved that man yeah, that's funny I love Bobby.
Speaker 2:Isn't that funny. You say you've known each other since you were six and I was seven when we moved from Los Angeles here and he lived around the corner. But I really didn't know him. I didn't know who he was.
Speaker 3:She has heard the rumors, yeah.
Speaker 4:We moved from Los Angeles when I was three, three and they were the first family that we met. When we came here, him and my brother started wrestling together.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah yeah, who's your brother? Jason holbrook.
Speaker 3:He's older than you he's my age oh, the name sounds super familiar. I probably knew probably picked on him because I was a prick in high school.
Speaker 4:I think you guys went to school with my cousin Rodney. Well, yeah, rodney, yeah we had talked about that, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I went to school with the best one of all, and that was Tammy.
Speaker 1:She's listening. That's why he says that shit.
Speaker 3:I loved her oh, she was my little pocket midget Loved her to death. Loved her to death. Well, you know what? We're dancing around the subject here. So you know we went through. When we first started this, we said there's two things we want to do. One was have Jason Allen on. That was like the very first thing. And oh no, hold on. Did I already talk about SoCal Kate?
Speaker 2:Can you say?
Speaker 3:Jason A, jason A he. Have I told our listeners about SoCal Kate? Yet no, so since August, you know I'm a horrible on social media, right Horrible. So I read Just a step above me, right, right, and I say that very often. So I have been one of the things I was read somewhere or something to is tag people that you follow. Right, just tag people. There's this, there's lady down in uh, she's in at a, at a orange, and her name she has on instagram is so cal cat and I've been following her and because she just she's sober for nine years, got an amazing story. She just sits. Some of her posts are funnier and shit she's, she's awesome she. So I've been posting, I've been tagging her in almost every post that we do right what does that?
Speaker 3:mean when you tag somebody so like when I tag your picture, your picture that I put on instagram yesterday, I just put tag her in it. It's like like tag katie, I tagged logan, tagged bonnie, I tagged everybody. I wanted to see it go directly, okay, but somebody like her, she's got to accept my friendship, accept me, before she can even see anything. So I started sending that, almost everything. I started tagging her about four or five other people as well, right and um, but this is the one I wanted because she's got such a. She's just I love her story because she's so much. Her instagram posts are funnier than shit, right, she makes fun of herself and that's what I like, right, that's what's fun. And so, anyways, I kept tagging, kept tagging. Finally, on Friday morning she, she just types back Hello there. Well, I didn't see it till yesterday morning. I wasn't, didn't go on to our Instagram posts until after our page, until after I did the thing for Logan and you, and, uh, I was like, oh my God, I was like a little school boy. Again, I'm like, oh my God, she texted me back. You know, I was like a little kid. And then I just wrote back cause it had been two days since you said that. So I texted back or DM her back and I'm like watching it going, come on, come on, wait for the response. And, like 30 minutes later she responded back. We had a great conversation.
Speaker 3:She's agreed to come on the podcast In person In person, right, because I was talking to her about, I was talking to her about just doing it over Zoom and she's like no, I'd rather do podcast in person. And I'm like Where's she, she in person? And I'm like where she's she's from? No, she has, she's from orange, right, her, uh, she has. It's called Laguna shores recovery center, so she has two of them. She also does she's got a recovery center for animals, so she's extremely involved in that. And, um, I, like I said, I've read part of her story. You know the little bit that they put on Instagram, but, man, I'm excited to get her. She's agreed to come down here. Um, she's going to come here and I talked to Mary last night about her doing a birthday, being a birthday speaker at primary and then coming here on Saturday and recording. Oh, that'd be cool. I know, I hope it works out. Like I said, I, I don't, I don't, I want to cross my fingers and pray and you know she's agreed to it.
Speaker 3:You know, she's a she's like whatever. She's just so super excited. I talked, you know, went from talking back and forth on Instagram and then she sent me her phone number. Then it was texting back and forth and then she just called me, like I'm over this. So she just called me. It was awesome, I'm excited, yeah. So, anyways, I want to get that out there. So, yeah, 52 weeks this is number 52 and we got the wives on here and I'm so excited to go through this. We've we've been, I've been beat up with my daughters for a couple of weeks. What are you looking at?
Speaker 1:Well, there's one guy I want to reach out to as well. His name is James Hart, 54 from Denver. Right, okay, been listening to this and I mean nice, well, you sent that to me yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, been listening to this and I mean nice Well, you sent that to me. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, sorry, I should have included a small backstory James Hart, 54 years old, from Denver, 15 months of recovery. What I like about what he said was but I hit my head when I jumped into a pool program headfirst. You know he's in, he's in it now. So, james, glad you listened, right, I mean we have.
Speaker 3:God has worked a lot through this program, right, I mean I've got not just, not just Catherine, but there's there's multiple people that all right about 48 really started reaching out and started agreeing to come onto the podcast. So I'm excited because we've kind of we've we've worked through a lot of our group that we kind of hang out with right. There's still a lot more out there that you know. We've worked through a lot of our group that we kind of hang out with Right. Um, we, there's still a lot more out there that you know. We got Paul that's agreed to come on. But having these outside people getting these other stories.
Speaker 3:Yep, I talked to her yesterday. Oh, she was, she was kind of on the fence. No, she ain't letting her go anywhere. She's gone Um and um gotcha. Yeah, I, I reeled her in yesterday with my, with your charm, with my charm, Fuck.
Speaker 1:How much money did you?
Speaker 3:bribe her with. Anyways. So I'm dancing around the subject here, so I'm going to let Rob uh, yeah, you are. You're going to start with. How do you want to start this? We're going to start with Bonnie. Yeah, bonnie, I got a question for you. Yes, when did you know he was an alcoholic? I can answer that. No, you're not.
Speaker 1:I asked Bonnie, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 4:It's actually funny. I had a very hard time in the beginning believing that he was an alcoholic. When Tammy came over to tell me how bad my husband looked and all this stuff kind of made me mad. I was raised by alcoholics. I've been beat by alcoholics. There's no way my husband? He does not hit me, he does not talk down to me, he doesn't abuse our kids. You know.
Speaker 3:He comes home, he drinks you know, goes back to work.
Speaker 4:There you go. He's never missed a day of work. We've never missed a paycheck. You ever missed a paycheck. You know that doesn't happen with alcoholics. So I think the second week into maynards when I went up there and I got to see him, I realized, holy shit, how bad he was. He was so bad just the eye color, the skin color the swollen. He always looks like kind of shiny like greasy. I guess you'd say just did not. But I guess, since I was with him every day, I didn't really notice it.
Speaker 3:And then when I saw him, I hadn't seen him for two weeks and I I couldn't believe it so leading up to that there I mean we talked about you said you know you grew up with alcoholics and blah blah, you know that that whole thing not blah, blah, that that's horrible. But you grew up with, I mean you did, I mean you grew up with alcoholics and blah blah, you know that that whole thing not blah, blah, blah, that that's horrible but you grew up with, I mean you did.
Speaker 3:I mean, you grew up with it. You were judging his alcoholism based on what your description, not not your, yeah, your description or your visual visualization of an alcoholic was, you know, and I think so many people do the same thing, right, well, he's not living on the street, he's not stealing anything, he's never had a DUI, he's. He's never lost a job, he's never lost a paycheck. He just drinks too much. You know, all these yets, all these yets.
Speaker 1:Right, I did have a.
Speaker 3:DUI was before her Right. But I mean during that period of time and like katie talked too, I mean you know she had she. There was other signs. I mean my health was going. You know, katie will talk about that pretty soon yeah, we got a good story on that one we'll tell it that's what we're here for it was thanksgiving.
Speaker 1:It was a year before you went to treatment no, not quite that okay, but it was thanksgiving about six months, about seven months before I went.
Speaker 4:He woke up. He was in a lot of pain, doubled over just puking up blood, yeah he would not go to the hospital. For me, I was trying to get him to go to the hospital. He wouldn't go to the hospital, but what?
Speaker 1:did I have you go do? I was laying on the bathroom floor and I would send her to the freezer where the Jack Daniels was, because I was burning puking.
Speaker 4:Go ahead but he wouldn't let me take him to the hospital, so I called steve he called butch and butch called steve well, it was steve that came over and we got him to the. They forget what the second a stands for.
Speaker 4:But we got to the hospital and they're running all these tests on him and it ended up being his doctor was one of Logan's very good friends' dads, so that was a little embarrassing. But he starts telling us how bad his liver is, that it's like three times its normal size and all this stuff, and, you know, because of drinking he. I remember he asked rob, do you have a friend that can walk your daughter down the aisle?
Speaker 4:because you'll never make it oh, wow yeah, so, uh, when we got home, rob explained to me that it wasn't alcohol. It was ageless mel, a vitamin he'd been taking that caused all these problems, and if he just kept taking the vitamin, he'll be just fine, so Sorry, oh my God, that's one I had not heard yet, rob.
Speaker 1:Well, because at this time I also started having like panic attacks, anxiety which I never felt in my life. I didn't know what these were, and so I go.
Speaker 4:Well, he woke me up telling me he was having a heart attack oh yeah, anxiety attacks.
Speaker 1:So I took him to the hospital and that was in sobriety that was early sobriety they're just getting down.
Speaker 3:That was crazy and the anxiety attacks. I lived that my 2002, 2001,. Right around there they had to rush me to the hospital in an ambulance because they thought I was having a heart attack at work. Right, they rushed me to the heart, to the hospital. That was the first time. I didn't know what the hell it was at. I was just face, was just hot. I felt like my whole chest was just an elephant was sitting on top of me and they just basically came in and gave me some medicine and said sir, you're having what we call an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they told me the same thing, like what the?
Speaker 3:I had no idea what the hell it was. And then that was my introduction to anxiety and you know it got worse after that. You know, and that's I mean, that's what I did for years, that's why I drank, was I mean that anxiety would go stupid, and I mean I was on Xanax and drinking and none of it would calm that.
Speaker 1:None of it was calming that anxiety. This is my first experience with it. It was brutal. So what else? What other good times did we have? Oh, hold on. When I was in the hospital because this is the first time I had went to she was going to drink with me. Because she doesn't drink. It gives her heartburn. So the only time I've seen her drunk was at her bachelorette party. When she came home, oh, that was bad, that was awesome, that was so bad I tried to fight the neighbors.
Speaker 1:But that's when times were good. That's long before, right, you know. But so when times got hard or bad, after I failed the drug test, is when my drinking really got.
Speaker 4:But that was fun, that was fun.
Speaker 3:Tell me about that story, tell us about that one.
Speaker 4:He comes home in the middle of the day, which is weird. Like I said, he doesn't miss work, right so? And he was at that time working overtime like crazy so sponsored by powder he comes home and I can't even describe like the look on his face. He'd been crying, he was about to cry and he's like I gotta tell you something emily's, just like two logan's not born yet. Yeah he's like's, like, kind of. I think I was. Was I pregnant?
Speaker 1:with Logan yeah.
Speaker 4:He's kind of shaking and in my I don't know why it popped in my mind. I was like did you get someone else pregnant? Like what did you do? Like what is this bad? And he's like I have to find somebody. I popped a piss test and I'm like, are you serious?
Speaker 1:I'm like okay, okay, whatever, as long as no one's pregnant and you didn't cheat on me, whatever Dude in my mind I had done the worst thing possibly. I mean, I had to leave work, you know.
Speaker 3:You thought you had failed your wife.
Speaker 1:I failed everybody.
Speaker 3:I did. No, I didn't think I did. I failed. Everybody Right and I did, you did. And your dad was still alive and working at that time. He'd already passed away, but you had some pretty good mentors that you were working under that were friends of your dad at that time too, right oh yeah, but then again go ahead, old rob, here, it was just a party thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I just went out and played. It was a card game.
Speaker 4:It was a one-time thing I'm like oh so that's no big deal, they're just being stupid.
Speaker 1:Right, she didn't know the truth. Yet. I told her that lie, the same way as I told people at work.
Speaker 3:Right after you finished that 16 hours of videos, you went back and told her the truth.
Speaker 1:No, it was after the day when I came in from the garage and hit my ass when Tammy was there. Tammy was there and then everything came out. You know, alcoholic right, the piss test.
Speaker 4:Well, I've been admitted what he did the night before the wedding.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh my. God the day of the wedding Truth serum.
Speaker 4:Me and all my friends Cause. Well, my friends smoked pot and stuff and I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm getting married. You know you can't be under anything like you have to be. So I stayed the night with my mom, you know. Yeah, he had a party at our house with all kinds of stuff that is funny.
Speaker 1:Yep, that is funny hashtag pattern to pattern accelerants see he's coming onto the social media.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna get you there sooner or later. We're gonna have one for rob. We're gonna have one mighty portagee. That's gonna be his handle. Yeah, the.
Speaker 4:The Mighty Portagee. He sends them to mine. I'll have people like sending requests. I don't even know who this. Oh yeah, yeah, they wanted to see something, Just okay.
Speaker 3:That's funny. I'm going to ask you another question.
Speaker 4:What about the day that they, the day they told?
Speaker 1:I told her no we were at the doctor's together.
Speaker 4:Yes, we were sitting in front of Cook. No See, I don't remember One thing with me. I shove everything down and I don't deal with it again. We don't talk about it If I have to fake myself out and lie to myself to get myself through it for that time.
Speaker 1:I had a broken leg yeah, so I was on 90. The story I told was that right. I was on 99. He called me from that because we didn't think nothing of it, because we were told twice, three times by three different doctors, two times it's not cancer, right? So that I didn't think the biopsy would be anything.
Speaker 4:You know I was driving down 99 getting parts and it was funny, I actually wanted the biopsy because I was being a smart ass.
Speaker 1:She's the one that wanted it.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. No, we're not going to go every year having to take these stupid tests that don't show. No, do it, and I just figured.
Speaker 1:So I got it. He called me Dr Cook. I said well, I can't get to you right now. Guys did that, told my crew where I gotta go, got back in the car, called terry, henry uh, dwight and aaron schaefer, for aaron was first telling what this is when the biopsy came back so everybody started praying. I wasn't calling her on the phone to tell her.
Speaker 1:No, no, you've said that before I got back how I got back home she sat on the I go you need to sit down, so you sat on the bed and I said that biopsy, that we took it's cancer see, that's how messed up was.
Speaker 4:I don't even remember that.
Speaker 1:Now get up we're gonna go see because the kids weren't home yet we're gonna go see the doctors. We saw the doctor and he wasn't there because he had told me twice that it wasn't. So I think he knew I was coming. I think he left and there was a female doctor that she kind of told me this is what it is, this is where you're at, this is we're gonna send you, and then when we were off and they during covid, but yet it was serious, so they, they didn't. That's crazy, that I mean fuck around you.
Speaker 3:I mean, think about that where these hospitals were just buried with covid patients and now you got to go fight through not only the covid part of it.
Speaker 4:See, that's funny, though, because we were when I was taking him for his radiation treatments and then broken leg. Yeah, the broken leg Leave her alone.
Speaker 3:She's embracing it. Well, tell him about the broken leg.
Speaker 4:When I take him to radiation I would just sit out there. He was getting a cast change right. Like I would, not. You weren't allowed to say cancer, like don't call me and ask me how he's doing, don't acknowledge it, don't talk to me about it. Let me do what I need to do and I'll deal with it another time. So, but will you Probably not? You were just saying you shoved it all in.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:I still haven't dealt with it. Like when people bring it up now.
Speaker 3:I cut it off. Well, see when when we, rob and I, were talking about it last week when we were finishing up our other podcast, I go, you know I'm going to bring up the cancer to Bonnie. He goes, she's just going to say it's a broken leg. And then you did.
Speaker 4:I try and glance over it as much as I can give as little as possible.
Speaker 3:I can tell you this, Bonnie In the time that I've known Rob, which is a little over three years, and the time in here, his discussions about the struggles with the recovery from alcohol was not even remotely like the recovery I'm talking about his wife, you. The struggles that you went through was worse through that period of cancer than it was his alcohol.
Speaker 4:By far.
Speaker 3:And I've always said this it doesn't matter if we're battling and it talks about it in our book, right, it doesn't matter if we're battling cancer or alcoholism or it's a disease.
Speaker 1:I have a question for my wife. We've talked about this, but I want you to cause. You had two conversations, two meaningful conversations, with God One before my, where I got sober. I want you to talk about that. And the conversation you had with God, one before I got sober. I want you to talk about that. And the conversation you had with God about when I was going through cancer.
Speaker 4:No, no, I'll talk about the recovery one, not the cancer one.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:About which part?
Speaker 1:Well, would you ask him. And what did he do?
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 1:The cancer one is actually a better conversation, but go ahead.
Speaker 4:I was actually mad that he got to leave for 30 days In recovery. Yeah, I'm with the kids, you get a vacation. Are you kidding me Like I have to stay home by myself? That's funny. When we first went up there, when we took him to Maynard's, I actually got into it with Chris. Chris is all. You can't go that way. I told him shut up, this is my husband, I'll go wherever I want. And then he was like no, you got to leave. And I'm like no, I don't have to actually like what are you going to do? And Tammy's like no. So we did end up leaving, which she stayed with me a week. I'm very grateful for that but.
Speaker 4:I don't think I would have got through that without her. But then, like after, well, and then when he came home, I was mad too because I was like finally I get some help with kids. 90 meetings in 90 days, like what, really? But Probably about like a year into it, I used to have, like I was telling you, my lists. I lived by lists. I did everything on my own pretty much. So I lived by the list. It had to go this way or I'd just lose it. That was one of the first things that he wanted gone, and he eased into it a lot too, because I'll say I felt like he was stepping on my job. I've raised the kids up to this point. I've done everything. You went to work, you made the money. Now you're gonna come step in and be dead you know and try and discipline my kids.
Speaker 4:I will say, when I let go of that, best thing I ever did was getting rid of the lists and letting him step up.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 4:The kids were better. There was no more yelling in the house Um. I didn't yell, I did. I yelled quite a bit. Uh, the lists were gone. It just was so smooth. But I remember getting to a point before he went into rehab like would it be easier on my own?
Speaker 3:I'm doing it anyways oh wow, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:So you were sort of yeah be easier on my own what god said. And no, I always feel weird saying I felt god talk to me like I heard this podcast is because of that tell me, just hold on right, just wait, you will get everything you want.
Speaker 4:Just wait. And then probably what about, like I'd say, three or four years into it? I remember telling him Should I admit it or yeah? If I would have walked away and saw the man he is now with another woman, I would have waited till the weekend I had the kids. They would have both been locked in our house and I'd have burned them both to the ground.
Speaker 2:I would have watched them both burn.
Speaker 3:He said that before.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would have lit them both on fire, like that's what I wanted. Someone else has it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:So I don't try and tell other women how they should feel or what to do. I think it's a different situation for me. I wasn't abused, you know. I wasn't hurt, my kids weren't hurt. But if you can work it out, I think it's right so much better to work out. I think, if you see, wouldn't you be mad to see someone else get this one? Oh for sure, yeah, especially.
Speaker 2:I mean, you really didn't go through tough times because you really didn't know what his troubles were.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe you did see some of that towards the end, yeah, or towards when you knew that he needed to go to rehab as well. But I saw a lot and I walked through a lot with my girls as well, you know, and and not not just my girls, you know, at that point it was eric was a firm part of our life as well. But we also had grandkids. You know too that we were. You know, mir Miranda didn't want Larry driving with the kids. She'd say, hey, can you stop by and pick up my kids? And I'd say, well, your dad's home, but I don't want my dad to get them Because she knew that he wasn't a safe choice for her kids either. So there was that part of it that was just rough, yeah, you know. And then having to explain to my kids some other things, my girls to talk to them about things that hard had we not stuck in this together and him to have the life that he has now with someone else.
Speaker 4:I feel lucky that our kids were so little. Logan has no memories of Rob ever leaving. He has no memories of you know that dad. Yeah, emily, she remembers going to Maynard'sards, but I think she thought we went as a family. I don't think she she was pissed at her, though she was very mad at me for what she thought I made her dad leave she was a bitch how old was she oh, she was six or seven.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, she was old enough to know better.
Speaker 4:Oh, she would slam the She'd scream at me to shut up, oh wow, and I was like if we weren't in this situation, I'd probably kick you in your face. Yeah, we're not going to do that Like oh, she was mad, that's funny she was so mad. She has Portuguese attitude. She was mad.
Speaker 1:Bonnie's second prayer, after god told her just wait. So I'm 10 years sober getting ready to go through cancer. She prayed. She doesn't tell me this till two years ago, maybe not even that, because she doesn't talk about it. Takes her years to. Oh, by the way, she had asked god she goes, do you let me? You told me to wait and I did. You gave me this and now you're gonna fucking take it from me this way. And what did he tell you? Sorry.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And he didn't. And here we are, you know.
Speaker 4:I grew up with a dad, yeah.
Speaker 3:Go ahead.
Speaker 4:I grew up without a dad. Yeah, go ahead. I grew up without a dad that's what was hard, right.
Speaker 1:Don't take this guy away from the kids now. And he didn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's again what you didn't want for your kids. You didn't want that. I don't want my girls to struggle or to go through what I did. You know. I don't want them to have a husband who has struggles, and I'm thankful that both of our boys walked through this, you know from. I mean because Larry's only three years now, so Pat's been in our lives for five years and Eric's been in our lives for 15.
Speaker 1:So but I have a question. Katie, with two things came up with the girls that I haven't heard from him Cause he doesn't know. You know he didn't know the talks going on within the family, but there were talks of you with your daughters, your adult daughters. Hey, we might need to prepare for dad him being gone out of the house. So was that you booting and giving him the boot? Are you leaving or both? Or were you not decided?
Speaker 2:so when I really saw that it was going down a direction which I knew that it was going to be not good, I had to start making sure that we were okay financially without Larry as well. So where we were at, I could have made the house payment. I, you know, maybe maybe got rid of my car and, you know, just bought something outright that I could drive and we would be financially okay that way. But when it was really bad, pat and McKenna were living with us and I literally had a conversation. You know we weren't charging them anything, we weren't asking anything of them financially. But I said, would you stay and help, just because I didn't want to lose the house, just to be able to continue to stay here, at least until things were figured out, whether he went on his own way and did something, or he finally got help, or whatever the case may be. So you know, I, I knew that you know I couldn't do it on my own, but with some help with them too, that I could and know that we could walk away, because you know, I know there's a ton of pressure on Larry and he's he has put himself in these big positions for a very long time, but he's very good at what he does.
Speaker 2:No matter where he's been, he's always been successful and he's never left a job and gone back, except for one time. It was a massive decision that wasn't so good, but we recovered and his trajectory has always just been higher and higher every time. And he's never failed to provide for us Never, and I'm very grateful for that. And he's never failed to provide for us never, and I'm very grateful for that, because he's taking care of his princesses and he calls me a princess which I'm his queen come on now.
Speaker 2:Come on now, come on sorry I keep telling him that but anyways, I just knew that if I could figure out a way to be able to stay in our house and to have some stability, then maybe he would figure things out a little bit too. I didn't think that he wanted to lose his family, but the only thing that he could see was his own pain and and his anguish of really what he was going through. But no matter what I said or did, it was Larry, this, you know this alcohol is only making you more depressed, and he just could not see through that.
Speaker 1:What would his reaction be? Anger?
Speaker 2:No Denial, it was very rare that he was angry. You know, there were other situations and I think I pushed him sometimes with some things that were happening in our lives. Those moments made him very angry.
Speaker 1:I got you, but you want to know one thing that was said that he doesn't know. He found out last week or the last was that the day you got, the day where he decided this I'm done with the Pat phone call. But that wasn't. You were coming home and you hadn't talked to him for me like 50 minutes, but yet you were headed here because you were worried that you were I mean, you were with, he was going to do something. There was there was.
Speaker 2:There was a couple of situations over the years which I mean I think I have a better pinpoint of, when things kind of took a different turn.
Speaker 1:When was that? Was that the the? I see it as the trucking company, you know, when he, when he, when he really invested in the truck and then kind of lost it. Well, just listen to him, that's kind of when his depression really hit. You know, the pride and ego took a shot.
Speaker 3:For me, that's when my depression really. But what did you see, Katie?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Hit it, don't hold back.
Speaker 1:Don't hold back. This is for another wife that may need to hear these things.
Speaker 2:It's still hard, it's hard. It's hard to watch him. I mean, you don't want to hurt other people.
Speaker 1:I got you.
Speaker 2:So I mean, do I think there were some situations? Yes, I mean, Larry was a lot of fun when he was drinking and you know, it became not fun for me really quickly as well, because every you know I'm a huge disney fan, love disneyland. We were pass holders for years. We're now pass holders again and you know, nothing brings me more joy than seeing my grandkids at disney. And I wish that for everyone, because the magic is just as magical as it was with your own kids, but with your grandkids it's even more magical.
Speaker 1:Why is that?
Speaker 2:I don't know guys, because we're not there. You guys, you've had kids and now you have grandkids, but why is that? You know, grandkids are just such a massive blessing.
Speaker 1:Is it because you can give them back?
Speaker 2:Maybe I don't know I think too, because you also appreciate. You know you're living in chaos at first With your own, with I mean, you know you're living in chaos at first, you know with your own and you're just trying to survive and it's just like so much. I mean, bonnie had to have a list.
Speaker 1:And if you get it from that fucking list, hell's going to be paid. And then and then, as we started, they started walking the spiritual road with me. God, not wasn't me God started fucking with her list. She couldn't, and just like, remember the first time where katie couldn't say a little bit, not a little bit, I mean blowing them up. Yes, in a way she couldn't look at me well, you're drunk, I'm sober, and I didn't do it.
Speaker 3:He did it just kind of like you remember when you, yeah, when I yeah told katie she was being a brat, yeah she couldn't say well, you drunk, mother.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, no yeah, she couldn't.
Speaker 3:That was the very first time and I talked about that on Miranda's when you heard 30th birthday and you were pissed off about a lot of things and you were being a brat, and I turned and looked at you and go, you're being a fucking brat. And you had no response to me because you couldn't call me a drunk and we ended up having a great night after that, anyways.
Speaker 4:You could have thought of some other words, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:I've probably said them to him many times. That's all right. You know, life happens.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know paths that you don't necessarily want to walk down and you're forced to and it sucks. And it's not just alcoholism, and it's not drug abuse or anything like that. It's just things that happen within the dynamics of your own family. Sometimes, whether it be cancer, somebody else is sick. There's something else that's happening and you have to rely on your faith, which I mean undoubtedly I did, and I think I questioned a little bit then too, and I think that sucks because you don't want to to have a why me kind of a thing, and I think I did have a why me or why is this happening? And I didn't want somebody to think differently of me or, you know, like Larry with this alcoholism, I didn't want people to think terrible of him because he's been a good dad and a great provider and he's a good husband. He just had a problem.
Speaker 4:That's funny because when we were dating, you know how you kind of cut what you want in a man, how you want it to be or whatever. I wanted the exact opposite of my family. I did not want any similar traits, just opposite of what I was raised with, and you got it. No, I did not, I got the alcoholic.
Speaker 2:You know, and my dad his.
Speaker 1:What I am now.
Speaker 2:No now it's way better. My dad's dad was an alcoholic, and a not very nice alcoholic, and he saw a lot when he was young, and so in my house there wasn't I mean, yeah, they would have drinks, cocktails, whatever else, but never at any point did I question, nor did I think that my dad had a problem. My mom never, you know. Everything was within reason so, and with Larry for a long time it was too so, until it wasn't yeah.
Speaker 4:So and yeah, and it's, and it almost seems like it came on all of a sudden. Huh, but you know it didn't Correct Like it just hits you at one time, but you didn't see the lead up. I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, and the other side of that is, I can almost pinpoint. You know, just like gears in a truck. You know one through 10, I can almost tell you my first, second, third, fourth, all the way to. I can tell you my first, second, third, fourth, all the way to. I can't to, all the way till it's an overdrive in the 10th gear to where it was so bad I was wide open with my alcoholism. Right, I can, literally I in my mind, I can remember each step along the way where it just got a little worse, just a little worse, just a little worse in my mind kind of I accelerated fast mine went over.
Speaker 3:It was a long period of time now that from eighth gear to tenth gear, yeah it went, it went fast and for her and I are opposites.
Speaker 1:I would go through cancer and she knows what I went through. I mean, it's funny when you hear people talk about pain in my white women. You know what they're. When she was talking to me, the day someone's at a 10, she's like motherfucker. I know what a 10 looks like you know I've lived with it, but I would go through cancer 10 times again before I'd go through early sobriety, once I understand what you're talking about she would rather me go through.
Speaker 1:I'd go through sobriety again before because it was just me in early sobriety, she didn't see any of what was going on in here.
Speaker 3:That is very crucial for somebody to explain that more. I exactly know what you mean.
Speaker 1:Well, I had buried and carried shit for years I mean for years, right Like being molested. Didn't come out until my second set of steps. I mean not that that's a big deal to some people.
Speaker 3:Well, it is a big deal. Yeah, but I mean not that that's a big deal to some people.
Speaker 1:It is a big deal, yeah, but it's just a big fucking deal.
Speaker 4:It's why my wife wouldn't let the people bury it. Babies no one but family.
Speaker 1:But I've been thinking that I didn't feel for years. And then when I got sober you know that that's the reason when I work with men and they, I tell them listen, call me, I don't give a shit if it's one, two, three in the morning, we'll have a 20 minute company. Matt G, this is for you, I don't care what time it is, you call me, we'll have a 20 minute conversation. You'll be good, I'll be good, we'll get some sleep. I didn't have that. I didn't have that afforded to me, which is fine. Maybe that's God's way. Suffer through it. And I suffered hard in early sobriety. I had good moments, right, but that night I'd call them the night terrors, where the anxiety would show up that I never felt. I felt at the end of alcoholism and I got sober.
Speaker 1:First year to two, year to three year, I would have moments at night. It was just many times or not, I shouldn't say many three times I'd had a gun in my hand and I'd sleep in the living room at the time because I still snored bad on the floor, and then we would switch back. She'd be in the living room we're not in bed together for a while and I'd come to her. She doesn't remember this. And I would wake her up. I would tell her I love her with my 45 in my hand because I'm going home. And then I'd get out there. This happened three times because it was okay. Who's going to see me? Oh, the kids are going to find me, fuck this. And then I would pray, I mean the whole time praying. I had a rough early sobriety. I'd go through cancer again before that. I would yeah.
Speaker 3:And I understood and cancer sucked, and I've heard you explain that. And on the opposite side of that, bonnie didn't see the internal suffer you were going to. No, she only saw the outternal suffer through cancer. Correct, and that's where you know. Katie has watched me go through 24 surgeries. 24 surgeries she's had to sit in that waiting room and worry about me, some of them minor, some of them pretty freaking major. I've had a couple major ones and she's had to sit in that and she's seen me battle through that pain and I think for her I don't know how would you answer that question what would you rather see me go through again, one of those surgery boy, you're going to have to watch a couple more surgeries anyway, but watching me go through the sobriety of going through that recovery process or watching me be a drunk?
Speaker 2:I mean your physical condition is hard for me because you're, no matter what surgery you have had, you still have pain, and so there's there's that you know that you're not. I don't think that there's going to be a point in your life where you're really pain free and that makes me sad for you because you're not. Because not that it's a bad quality of life, it's just you feel so restricted.
Speaker 3:You feel like less of a man.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's hard, like you can well, you're not, because you're doing things that you shouldn't be doing, but we feel like that I do.
Speaker 1:I feel useless and it's not something that we can break.
Speaker 2:I think too, with his situation, with the pain that he was in and those things it only added to his depression.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, big time.
Speaker 2:Greatly, but that was not something that he was really even putting a thumb on and saying. I think this ties back to this or what I'm going through, and I think that, again, he was good time, larry, and you know he was fun and so he would drink, and it just got to a point where it wasn't fun anymore, where I wasn't for me either yeah, and again on my side, she didn't see what I was going through on the inside right getting well, I was because I was at meetings every day for three years.
Speaker 1:Not my other layer took me to meetings every day, came and picked me up and I didn't see it on her face the alcoholism. But I did see it on her face going through cancer, and I know what she would do for me. I told the story. She doesn't really listen to the podcast, it doesn't bother me. It on her face going through cancer. I would come out and I know what she would do for me. I told the story when I would, because she doesn't really listen to the podcast, it doesn't bother me.
Speaker 3:Neither does Katie. Katie listens to it when I'm editing.
Speaker 2:I get a lot of it because he's editing, so I'm hearing all of these things.
Speaker 1:Which I appreciate because you have a lot of great input.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. I mean, I am a producer.
Speaker 1:She's a CFFS. That's, for fuck's sake, studios.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I know you know why?
Speaker 2:Because every time I turned around and you know, 52 weeks ago, larry was like I need another thousand dollars. For fuck's sakes that's how I felt about it.
Speaker 3:I was like larry oh my gosh find a cheaper hobby just she hasn't seen any of the video.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't, and you know what hey, baby, we haven't paid anything.
Speaker 1:This I'm just.
Speaker 3:I just sit here for free trust me, you're you're paying to me is sitting here record here for free any longer, except for you two. Sorry, everybody, you know we're kind of getting off the topic and that's fine, I mean, I know huh.
Speaker 2:You know, there's a lot of things, yeah, and I'm going to bring something up and I know this is hold on.
Speaker 2:You had said in your early days of sobriety that you had your gun.
Speaker 2:And there was a period in our lives and I want to say that was even before it got really before, before I feel like it really took a downhill slide. That larry was obviously dealing with some depression, which I don't think I had seen the extent of it until he had said some things. But you know, I pretty much thought, okay, you don't need to drink anyways. We you know alcohol needs to be gone but took it as far as we took all of his shotguns, his handguns, took it all up to my mom and dad's and, you know, had it up there. We had no alcohol in the house whatsoever. But you know, I mean I was trying to believe that he was not going to drink and that he was, you know, going to take things seriously, like, hey, we really need to back off this. You know we need not to drink, we need not to have this in the house, because I'm concerned about you. And I think it did help a little. But he was just going behind.
Speaker 4:When they want to get it, they'll get it, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean we had taken steps and measures, especially towards the end.
Speaker 1:Yes, the locked locked refrigerator so.
Speaker 2:Pat and Ken. I could still have some alcohol if they wanted it.
Speaker 1:And they would break in.
Speaker 2:Still yeah.
Speaker 1:Or he'd get into the he got in the closet, got some of Pat's whiskey that he didn't like.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, you can't make fun of that.
Speaker 1:What Because say something.
Speaker 4:Okay, when we first got together, I was huge in NASCAR I was waiting for her to bring this one up. I loved NASCAR. Okay, junior Johnson came out with White Lightning, moonshine and you could get these collector bottles and I got one. I was so excited, I got one.
Speaker 1:It was number two.
Speaker 4:Yes, it was.
Speaker 3:So funny.
Speaker 4:A couple of years after he's been sober and through all this stuff, he admits that it's water that's in that bottle he bought us like you were ever gonna drink it. Yeah, drink the moonshine out of it it wasn't that good. Anyway, it was thankful he left the bottle and didn't like try and get rid of the evidence.
Speaker 2:So I still and it's autographed, yeah I still have the bottle, but let's give larry some kudos here in this situation about the wine larry has a magnum of wine with the football team, his high school football team who went to championships section champions, and a lovely friend of ours put it on his favorite wine, which wasn't a big wine drinker but he liked this one, and that was the only bottle that he did not open.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we still have it.
Speaker 3:You know why I didn't open it? Because it has a wax seal on it and everybody would have noticed. I swear to God, no.
Speaker 4:I believe this. This wouldn't have the like little tape thing. No, this one would have the little tape.
Speaker 3:Thing that went over the cork you could tape that down with clear tape and nobody from afar you couldn't see it. What do?
Speaker 1:you think Rob did, it's done. That's exactly what I did.
Speaker 3:No, trust me, you never even told me that, but I can tell you that's how I did it.
Speaker 1:It's clear tape, but far enough away you won't see it.
Speaker 3:And if it means anything, it wasn the fucking night and you want to know what that was like getting down whatever the fuck they were, they were fucking nasty tomato bullshit we don't drink for taste. I'm gonna tell you right now I'd look at the back of the refrigerator. Go oh fuck, go through withdrawals or drink that. What's the decision gonna be? Drink it, drink it yeah, you know, robberies you know?
Speaker 2:and me I'd be like who was drinking these? And then I'm like, are you drinking those? And she's like, no, it's not me. And I knew she wasn't lying because she was looking at me like I was kind of crazy and I'm like are you drinking those?
Speaker 3:he's like it's not me the fuck I wouldn't drink those nasty ass things. What's wrong with you? You know that what rob was bringing up, I haven't talked about nasty ass things. What's wrong with you? You know that what rob was bringing up, I haven't talked about this in a very long time but, katie dear, it was during covid and katie had this stella rosa wine that she really liked, right, and it was extremely hard to get during covid. Well, I would start getting the withdrawals around two, 30, three o'clock in the morning and I one morning I was like I was just coming out of my mind. I needed something, opened up the pantry door and in the back was bottle that Stella Rosa, and I'm like, oh my God, I don't know what I'm going to do. So well, I ended up opening it. I was going to say you knew what?
Speaker 4:I'm going to do so. Well, I ended up opening it. I was going to say you knew which you were going to do.
Speaker 3:No, I knew no. Bonnie. In my mind I'm thinking how I'm going to be able to hide it, right? No, we're going to drink it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm going to drink it.
Speaker 3:The dilemma was how am I going to hide it and replace it Before she finds out, before she finds out? So I drank it about 5.15. I knew one of my customers that owns a liquor store over in Riverbank. I knew that he was selling it because that's where we bought those at and I got up about 5.15 and I ran to Riverbank right and I finished the whole bottle, then two drinks. It was gone. I went to Riverbank as soon as he opened up at 6 o'clock. I went in to grab a bottle and as I grabbed the one bottle I'm like might as well get another one. So I grabbed two of those bottles, drank the one on the way home, came home, put the other one in the back of the pantry before if you were at a liquor store, why didn't you buy her three bottles of her wine?
Speaker 4:grab something for you on the way home, bonnie, that would require that would require sane thought process insanity, fucking alcohol when you're, when you're not yeah, it's insanity.
Speaker 3:Insanity for even doing it.
Speaker 1:For god's sakes, it's like tell me about the gate. Remember the gatorade? I went with jack and coke, jack and gatorade because it was healthier.
Speaker 4:Gatorade was healthier than coke less calories wouldn't dehydrate you Insanity. Look I'm being healthy with my drinking. Aren't you proud?
Speaker 3:Just insanity. Check this out right when my liver, my pancreas started.
Speaker 2:I was drinking, Coors.
Speaker 3:Light and then I went to Make a love ultra. No, no, no, no, not yet, not yet. I went from Coors Light and I was drinking a 36 pack a day, easily right. It's like water at this point and I'm like I can buy the 805's With more alcohol For about the same price. So I started drinking the 805's.
Speaker 1:Well, because it had more alcohol and I needed more alcohol Because at this point, my body was just starting to Stop working off alcohol, because it had more alcohol and I needed more alcohol because at this point, at this point, my body was just starting to just stop working off alcohol and so I started drinking that 805.
Speaker 3:And then that's when my pancreatitis and everything really started getting bad and my the, the, just the liver was just horrible and in my mind it's the beer. I had to go back to Mecca love ultra, because it's that 805 was getting to me. Yeah, that was the insanity of my thought process he ended on.
Speaker 4:We started with jack daniels and then, I think, went to maker's mark because it was cheaper and I think, at the end canadian mist we ended on canadian, I ended on kessler's.
Speaker 2:I have a family from Canada and that's their drink of choice Canadian.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I went from drinking Crown every morning to Kessler's. I would not stoop to vodka. No, I wouldn't have never done it.
Speaker 2:Oh wait, it's got to be brown whiskey. No, I would drink it. If it was in the house, you would drink it. No.
Speaker 1:Katie, I would have drank anything. She's right, I would know I would too.
Speaker 2:But Okay, you want insanity and this whole part of it. Larry was actually taking advice from another alcoholic when he was having all of these health problems. You know he's bloated and he's he just. You know he feels like I mean I would make a lovely dinner and everybody else would be scarfing it down and I go. What's wrong? Do you not like it? It tastes like shit it down and I go what's wrong, do you not like it?
Speaker 4:it tastes like shit. I can't even tell you how many times I've not remade things because it tasted like shit anyways, my point is he was talking to another alcoholic at work and oh he's like oh, when you feel like that, I just drink that alkaline water there you go.
Speaker 3:I had, I'd forgotten about that.
Speaker 2:Your acid levels too high, your acid levels, your ph and your body is all messed up. So he tells me you know he, you know this gentleman does have a drinking problem. I knew it, he had talked to me about it. And he tells me this and he was just like maybe I should try that alkaline water.
Speaker 4:And I was like, okay, let's do this so, yeah, isn't it funny how we're like yes, let's try something new, yes, let's do this.
Speaker 2:That's gotta work for that guy yeah, it had to work for him and, trust me, I mean, we probably had a good 120 dollars out in this alkaline water that he drank, I'm sure, with his whiskey is it because your taste buds were shot, or you?
Speaker 3:I had so much acid in my I had so much acid in my mouth, it was in my mouth. I got you. I mean, I just couldn't. No matter what I ate, no matter what it, the only thing that I could drink was alcohol and well, I had to drink coming up with twice a year because if I that's the one that would I'd be dry heaving on mondays.
Speaker 1:I'd be dry heaving because I didn't drink on sundays usually, or I didn't couldn't drink all day on sundays because I had to work. I never drank before work so I'd be dry, even telling myself fuck, you know, I'm done. I'm done by the afternoon. Well, shit, she's gonna have a great dinner because she and if I don't eat it, she, she's going to know, because you fucking drank so much. That's what she's going to think in my mind. So I'll just have a half pint, which will settle my stomach down. I can eat dinner, she won't be mad. That's how I'll talk myself into the next. And I never get a half pint. Who the fuck buys a half pint? Get a fifth. I did.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, when we cleaned out his truck when I had to, when he was at Maynard's, and you go for that counseling or whatever.
Speaker 1:Tell them what you did with the house too.
Speaker 4:They're like you have to do everything opposite. Now you know there's got to be this great big change. I painted my house. I took things from that cupboard, put them in that cupboard. That cupboard went to that cupboard. I did all this stuff right. I had to get everything cleaned out.
Speaker 1:No Listerine yeah.
Speaker 4:I had to get rid of all my vanilla, all my extracts, my mouthwashes, perfumes, um body sprays. Anything that said it had alcohol had to be out of the house. I went through his truck because he didn't have a work truck. Then he had his black dodge. No exaggeration. At least 300 of those little airplane bottles of Jack Daniels or, um, what is it? Crown.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:If that wasn't enough, I start cleaning the garage, the most random places. I would find bottles in the most random, shoved in shoes, like who, like I don't. There were just bottles shoved everywhere, like and I didn't have to hide it yeah, but I did no, and that's toward at the end.
Speaker 3:I mean, I hid my whiskey. Well, I thought I did for a long time, because when they know beer. Yeah, when the beer stopped working, fuck beer I well, I know, but that's what I could drink in the open.
Speaker 3:If I had just started drinking whiskey in the open, she would now I'd go have a whiskey at dinner or something like that long island. Well, I'm just saying a whiskey at dinner was normal, but drinking whiskey just around the house, that wasn't normal for larry, for larry's style of drinking. I was a beer drinker, right, or if I had to drink, if I was at a conference or something and be drinking all day long, I would stay on beer right, because I've said multiple times I didn't like to get past I I did not like to get drunk.
Speaker 1:I didn't, I hated. That's why, when I had the powdered accelerants, I could balance that shit anyway, after larry had his gastric bypass.
Speaker 2:Talking about that, I do we've talked about that.
Speaker 1:Looking back now, I We've talked about that.
Speaker 2:Looking back now, I I don't think that they truly address a lot of the other issues.
Speaker 2:You, he was addicted to food at that time and even though he had to go through all the steps to qualify for the surgery, I think that the food addiction was something that was never really addressed, and so I think he he had the surgery, was super successful, as he is still successful with his surgery but he had a huge addiction to fitness.
Speaker 2:I mean he was walking and riding his bike faster than his surgeon even wanted him to. I mean, he came from home, from the hospital, that same day, he was on his bike and he was doing like five miles and then he did P90X and he was doing like five miles and then he did p90x and he was lifting weights and he was running on the treadmill and he was doing all of these things because he also wanted to look good now that he had dropped all this weight and he was feeling great, and so I think he had a and he wasn't drinking at this time, because not until he crossed the neighbor's house he got that beer yeah, and that night, you know, looking back now it is funny because he's like I just drank my first beer and he was totally lit off of one beer.
Speaker 3:But gone in about 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that and that is. You know, I don't know everybody's experience. I can tell you, larry Shep, larry, larry's experience.
Speaker 3:Larry Shepard, waterford, california, anyway, everybody's experience Larry Shepard, Waterford, California.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I can tell you Larry's experience. He would be fast and furious to get drunk and then he could be sober within half an hour.
Speaker 1:That's crazy, I mean, but there's something with a gastric bypass.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Well, I think addiction is an addiction. So when you get rid of one addiction, you replace it with another and I've always said I am so lucky and I'm so grateful. He got addicted to God, he got addicted to the Bible.
Speaker 3:He was addicted to this AA book.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know he was the addictions that he took annoying at times, but Talk to me what's annoying. You know what's annoying? I'll tell you. You can only get AA'd so many times. And then it really sucks because you'll be yelling at one of your friends and you'll AA him and I'm like son of a bitch and I'll hear it.
Speaker 3:What was your part in that?
Speaker 4:Yeah. But they like it when they do it to me, because I told my story Thursday. No, now I see my kids doing well, I see.
Speaker 1:Emily my to me because I've told my story thursday.
Speaker 2:uh no, now I see my kids doing well I see emily, my daughter, did to me what great coping skills for your kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, honestly my daughter's awesome with aa stuff yes, with her friends I know, but like how she implements it in her day-to-day life.
Speaker 2:And I think, even going forward, our girls, potentially our grandkids, will have those better coping mechanisms yeah, mechanisms to handle things, because Larry's outlook on life and his outlook on other things that happen within your family are completely different. You know I mean his. You know which is beautiful, you know moving forward, you know some things that you have to go through and I know that he said this already once before. But my dad has cancer, which he's in remission, thank God. But when we were given my dad's diagnosis it was really on the bad part of Larry's alcoholism and so what? My dad is a silent fighter, I say he's very quiet about his, his health and his, what he's gone through and what he's had to deal with and what he continues to deal with on a daily basis, really. But my mom is this very strong, quiet figure who holds him up and they just deal with what he's had to go through.
Speaker 1:Kind of like you, uh-huh, just like you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, yep, but Larry knew that he wasn't going to be there for me emotionally because he couldn't because of his drinking and I was walking that couldn't because of his drinking and I was walking. That what you know, ari's dad got cancer 10 years ago, a little over 10 years ago it's been a while yeah and he, in my opinion he was great.
Speaker 2:He was taking his dad to chemo. He was taking his dad to the majority of the appointments that his dad had to go through. And his dad's a very stoic, very, I don't want to say he doesn't rely on anyone, he just does his things, you know, for himself. So you know, larry would make sure that he would take him to his chemo and he did. And Larry was there for a lot of it because he did have the blessing of working from home at that period, which he still does now. But he, you know he was able to.
Speaker 3:I had the ability to do it better than my brother and sister yeah, and it's no.
Speaker 2:I mean no shame to them, but I mean he had a for that time afforded to him where he could work, sitting next to his dad who was getting treatment. So he had that.
Speaker 1:So you know, larry had support at home with me, you know you didn't have it I didn't, you know you're a caretaker at home and a caretaker and helping to, and I had my girls but I couldn't really even talk to larry about other things that were happening.
Speaker 2:you know there's, you know things I don't want to say at work, but you know work environment, that kind of a thing that we're changing, and I couldn't talk to him about it.
Speaker 3:She would try. She would try. I mean, I just didn't give a fuck, I really didn't. Page 62. I just didn't.
Speaker 1:Hey, were there times that you would? Would you keep things or not share things with your daughters Cause you didn't want them to have a different look at their dad at times?
Speaker 2:Just say you would hold on to those. But you know what? We're pretty much an open book.
Speaker 1:That's kind of what I gather. You know, the fab four or the core four, the core four.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my girls are extraordinary.
Speaker 1:They're amazing, both of them Differently, differently, but they're both amazing and they got different parts of you too, yep.
Speaker 2:I say I have the light and the dark version because Miranda's got that bright blonde hair and McKenna's gravitated toward the darker colors in her hair. But their personalities are.
Speaker 1:And you have both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, their personalities are similar, yet so far apart as well, but they're both extraordinary. They're both very strong, very determined, driven, and I'm very proud of them. But they have they've also chosen the best partners for them.
Speaker 1:They already shared the same thing. You're just grateful that the men that they've chosen yes, yeah, I'm very grateful for both of them.
Speaker 3:For our boys, I say yeah, and I said that on Miranda's podcast. I said one of my most grateful things in life are my two son-in-laws. Yeah, life for my two son-in-laws? Yeah, because for them to take care of. For a dad, the one of the things you want the most is a man to take care of your dog and I got two amazing son-in-laws yeah, amazing katie, uh, as larry's going into recovery, as he's going to maynard's, you're dropping him off.
Speaker 1:Are you hopeful? Did you see something?
Speaker 2:different? Did you see something different? I was tired. Oh, I bet I was there.
Speaker 4:You needed a 30 28 day break yeah, I wasn't like bonnie, I was you know, I mean, I had two little kids and no babysitters, like we wouldn't let anyone babysit, so so it was just me. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, was it tough? Yes, the months leading up to it were very tough and you know, I don't think that Larry's even talked about this, but we were. You know, it's COVID, it was weird. There was a lot of things that were happening and you know, I was trying to control things that I could control. Larry didn't have a lot of control of any money, he had an allowance, but it didn't matter. You know, I mean, you guys, what is it? Cunning, conniving?
Speaker 1:cunning baffling powerful yeah there you go.
Speaker 2:So, and it's true, it's, you know, and hiding things at all cost. And oh boy. I don't want to say that he was a liar, I don't think that I was a fucking liar, okay, you can say it back.
Speaker 2:I mean to me I wasn't questioning him in other areas of our life. I knew that this was the singular greatest issue that he had was his alcoholism and he didn't want to say that he was an alcoholic. I think maybe internally he was saying that he was, but he didn't want to say that he was an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:I think maybe internally he was saying that he was, that he wasn't admitting it and I was screaming it inside, yeah, inside but I don't think that we were trying to give you a pass either, and I think that we were trying to like, okay, if we can control this, then maybe we can, you know, help him in this way.
Speaker 2:Did I feel that it was really out of control? At a point I knew that it had gotten bad, and that's when I was trying to get my ducks in a row and what was happening here in this house was me just trying to survive. And then I was grateful that I still had McKenna at home and I feel horrible that she had to walk through that with me because and Patrick as well, because he was here and I was leaning on them a lot, but yet they were also very supportive of me. And then Miranda too, even though she was still cautious about, you know, her little ones being around not not being around Larry, like he was dangerous. She just didn't want him to be the sole caretaker of them. It was fine if I was home, because you know, let's be real, it's still that way. I'm the one who takes care of them when they're here, it's my job.
Speaker 3:And vice versa. I knew where I was at and I did not want, I didn't want to drive with them. I knew right. So I mean self knowledge, right, I knew that I love my grandkids enough to know I was not going to drive with them. I was not going to, you know, put them in any kind of harm's way, because I knew that I, you know, I just knew I wasn't such of a fucking drunk, I didn't know what was going on. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's good you knew that. I recognize that you love that and recognized it I did. But you loved them enough that you didn't know in that position.
Speaker 1:Speaking of that, I never thought of, because when we had the old Durango you did all the driving.
Speaker 2:You hate to drive.
Speaker 1:That's back then. She don't drive shit now because we're not going to let her because of the ticket Pulling off the gas pump. They all know that. I've told the story.
Speaker 4:See, they call me the passenger princess. I hate driving. That's what was so funny when I went to stay with Tammy. That's what she needed help with the most was driving and I'm like you go bitch. I don't drive and I'm like, and there's snow, oh boy, there's rain.
Speaker 4:So then I'm like telling her boys yeah well, if it's snowing, you guys are still going to have to drive us. And they're like what happened to you? They're like the auntie that we remember was like so tough and I'm like, oh yeah, no, no, I'm like I don't drive anymore. You're still tough.
Speaker 1:I'll still throw punch somebody I. I'm just not driving in the snow, motherfucker.
Speaker 4:She's got 15 seconds to back it up, so it's got to end really, really fast.
Speaker 1:We're working on her cardio. I think she's got about 18 seconds right now.
Speaker 3:She could go when she's done. Hey, kate, I want to bring something up.
Speaker 2:Wait let me go back to what I was. So there was. You know we were trying to like okay, larry, you know let's handle your depression. So he was seeing a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3:No, both actually.
Speaker 2:Technically you were, and I said you have to be honest about what you were drinking. You have to tell them what you were drinking, and he had assured me that he had shared, and he had assured me that he had shared. And what was just so strange to me was that all they did was oh, that you're still depressed and this is happening. Ok, let's change your medicine. And then he would get a new medication and I'd call Miranda our nurse, and I would say Miranda, what is this?
Speaker 2:And she would be like I have no idea why they would put him on that.
Speaker 1:Mom, this is while drinking as much as he does.
Speaker 2:Yes. So Larry said, if you don't think that I'm not being honest, I'm going to let you sit in on my um appointment, zoom appointment, because it was COVID. It was weird time, you know. I mean, he never physically met with this doctor, never physically saw her in person, so they couldn't really see him. I don't think they cared, no, honestly, and it was just like okay, well, here let's do this.
Speaker 3:I forgot all about those appointments.
Speaker 2:So he was telling me you don't believe me, okay, you sit with me. And he did admit to her I'm still drinking and she's still giving him this medicine that the combination could kill him and she's still giving him this medicine, that the combination could kill him. That's ridiculous. But is it surprising? No, no, it's. It's that's kind of when I said we need to do something, you know. So this is 2021?. No, 2020? Yes, it was probably fall of 2020. Okay, yes, timeline it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Miranda and McKenna kind of get the timeline. It's somewhere around there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's COVID.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, where did I feel that he had gone off the deep end? When I was in Disneyland with Miranda the B12 shot. Well, I wasn't here for that.
Speaker 2:I heard all about it, but you were in disneyland when that happened but you know my mom and dad had gone because you know again we're taking the grandbabies larry. Larry was still positive on um, taking a positive covid test. I was negative. We had had this planned. I was still going to go. I knew it kind of gave him a pass not to go, but I'd also let me go back a little bit too, and I I'm thinking I'm not finishing my thoughts well, but um, I don't like to go back here, by the way.
Speaker 1:I know this is for someone else.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there wasn't a time that we did not take a trip or go somewhere that I I wasn't resentful because it was for me hey, let's go do this. And for him it was like, well, where, where am I going to get my next drink? And so we took this trip in February of 2016, I believe, and it was a couple of days of what I wanted to go and do and see, and then we were going to travel back up Highway 1. And so for Larry it was like, oh, malibu's great, where are we going to stop next and get a drink? And we were in Venice, I'll never forget. And we're walking down essentially their boardwalk or whatever else, and Larry's just looking for the next bar that we can sit and have a cocktail in. And I'm all for day drinking. Sometimes it can be a lot of fun, but when you have an alcoholic in your life, it's not fun, because then your sense of responsibility. I didn't want to drink because somebody had to drive, somebody had to be responsible.
Speaker 1:You can enjoy.
Speaker 2:No, and I wasn't enjoying any of those trips or any of those times. And we were married 30 years and we went to Palm Springs because we had to mark the anniversary trip. We had to do something. We've been married 30 years. A lot of people don't even get to five to ten yeah. So I said we had to stop and get alcohol for the room. We had to have alcohol at the pool. We had to worry about where we were going to drink that night for dinner. You know, everything was centered around that. In my opinion, is is how you're not wrong.
Speaker 2:You're not wrong so you know, and there was, you know, I saw it at home, I saw where he was drinking and I would question him a little bit and he would, you know, like it's no big deal, but there was two things that he would do that would kind of give him away. And he says I didn't ever do that and you did, but I call it high stepping. What's high stepping? But I call it high stepping.
Speaker 1:What's high stepping?
Speaker 2:He would just literally get up from his chair and just walk to our half bath, which is not very far 15 feet 15 steps. Yeah, but it's an over exaggerated step.
Speaker 4:So he's like in a marching band you know, like
Speaker 1:super exaggerated.
Speaker 4:Frankenstein walk Frankenstein walk diver high step no, uh, you would do the blank stare like you'd have the blank stare, like I'd be talking to you and it'd just be gone thousand miles there physically and then just walk off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay yeah, there was that.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing is we'd be sitting out on the back patio and you know the kids would be here, we'd have other people or the kids would have friends here or something like that, and we'd all be having a great time. And we'd look up and we realize that larry's gone because larry put himself to. You know he would just go and lay down.
Speaker 3:Good thinking. Well, like I said, I didn't like to get drunk. When I got to that point, I'm like I'm going to bed All right, Before I got drunk and did stupid shit.
Speaker 2:No, I think that you had hit a limit of feeling pretty good, and you were just going night-night, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I've said this multiple times my drinking was to put me to sleep. That's the reason why I drink.
Speaker 2:But I think that has a lot to do with your anxiety. Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And the things that you were trying to control my depression, my anxiety.
Speaker 2:Again, he was only making himself more depressed by drinking, and he could not, no matter what I said.
Speaker 1:You couldn't convince us of that.
Speaker 2:He wouldn't even listen.
Speaker 4:No, what's crazy with him is. You know, I've never seen him drunk. I've never seen him drunk. No, yeah, I wish I could say that about.
Speaker 3:Katie, because we'd go to weddings and stuff.
Speaker 1:Not really.
Speaker 4:No, I've never really seen him. He's never been a fall down. He always went to bed before.
Speaker 1:But I was the same way before, but I was the same way I wouldn't, there was very, I mean there's Well, there was one time when the alarm was going off in the house and the door, the garage door, I had to open the garage door and set the alarm off and I laid down and went to sleep or something.
Speaker 4:No, you were standing in the doorway, buck naked, outstanding no clothes on, and the house alarm's going off and I'm like, what are you doing? And there's that stare.
Speaker 3:Did you go out to get a drink? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I don't know what he was doing. I had to bring him back in the house.
Speaker 1:I said I never had a blackout that I remember. Ha ha ha. That was the only time in my life.
Speaker 4:I couldn't turn the alarm off because he wouldn't get out of the doorway so I could shut the door.
Speaker 1:I said we would sleep in the living room or I'd sleep in the bedroom because the snoring went back and forth. That's when she was out there and I was in the bedroom. Some reason I opened the door, alarm going off, and then I got. That's what I kind of came to and she's screaming at me for down the hallway like what are you doing? And I'm just looking at her.
Speaker 3:I don't know that's there, yeah you know they're, they're going man, a loss for words? No, that's not loss for words. You know Katie brings up some stuff that you know that obviously I've buried a little bit. You know the stuff that I've put her through. You know I'm still mad at myself, for I know, right, I'm getting better at it, but I know, when I see her talk about it, that that pain is still real. Oh yeah, and it hurts me to see it, because I want nothing but the best for her.
Speaker 1:We want to take it away, we want to fix it. I want to drag it out of her.
Speaker 3:So bad, let me shoulder your pain Right, best for her. We want to take it away, we want to fix it so bad, drag it out of her so bad. And we can't let me, you know. Let me shoulder your pain, right, let me do it. You caused it, let me fix it. You carried mine for so long. Let me carry, and you know those things. When she talks about those, those trips that I wanted to be so special for her and to know that I ruined them and know that those trips were more for me than it was for anything else, you know the trip she's talking about is when I sold off my trucking company, the 30th anniversary.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, the 2016. The 2016 is when I sold back my trucking company and I had a couple of weeks. I took a couple of weeks off and she took a week off and we spent, you know, in my 2017,.
Speaker 3:I think it was 17,. But in my disgusting brain for me, I wanted to spend time with my wife because I'd been away from her for so long, but in reality, all I was doing is escaping and drinking and dragging her along with me. I wanted a drinking buddy for a couple weeks, right, and that's what I was wanting, because I just wanted to go fucking drink. It's all I wanted to do. But you know, I we went to disneyland for I don't know a couple days and then we just drove all the way up the coast, coming home and stopping when it should have been an amazing time for for her and I. I made it a fucking misery for her because I was. It's all I was thinking about. We're going to stop here, we'll drink here. We're going to stop here, we're going to drink here. And it's really looking back on it now. It's exactly what I was fucking thinking. That's it.
Speaker 3:I didn't care about, you know, the, the stress that I'd put her through the two years of the. You know, I took an enormous pay cut, enormous pay cut when I bought into the trucking company, you know, because as an owner, you don't take big checks, right. So I took that and just damn near bankrupted us during that period of time and um, and I just wanted to give back to her. But in the meantime, in my mind I was so fucking depressed all I wanted to do was drink, for fuck we think we're doing good things.
Speaker 3:We think we're thinking of everybody, but we're're not. We think of ourselves and ourselves only. Page 62. No, and then that 32, and then that, our 30-year anniversary. You know, we went into Disneyland again right?
Speaker 2:No, we didn't. We just went to Palm Springs.
Speaker 3:No, we went into LA.
Speaker 2:No, we only went to Palm Springs, and that was part of the problem is because he was so, they were so dependent upon him to handle like all of these things, and they kind of had a dysfunctional office kind of situation, in my opinion at least, and the whole time his phone rings, he's working the whole time that we are away, and it was just for me. I mean, yeah, we went and we marked that anniversary, but it wasn't a celebration by any means, because it was just miserable. He was working, he was drinking, and I mean, none of it was ideal.
Speaker 3:I remember the morning the next morning we got there katie probably don't even remember this, but I had an ice chest in the back of the truck and I went down that morning and drank like six beers and came back up just just to get through that morning oh yeah, it was just in in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anyways, you know, those are the drunk logs and stuff that you know, and katie said something a while back is that she felt guilty that she led me down this and it's one of the things that you know. I talked about it with Miranda and I didn't really allude to who had said it, because I was waiting for Katie to be on here to talk about it. You know, katie and I one of the things that's been very nice to have our daughters on here. It's created a ton of conversation, right. You know Katie's been very hesitant about agreeing to come on here. It's created a ton of conversation, right. You know katie's been very hesitant about agreeing to come on here because she didn't want to come back into these, these things, and there's still get into the heaviness right.
Speaker 1:We dodged a lot of it, but there's we have, and you know, and there's, there's still a lot.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's still so much of the upside that through my recovery of this and you, you know Katie has felt guilty. Babe, if you want to talk about this, we can, or if you don't, you know, she said something to me on the phone the other day and it just crushed me and is is that she felt guilty, that she forced that. She, you know, she made me go down that road and you know, and I told her absolutely not right. You know, there was some heavy ass shit that we were going through, but I was the one that picked up that bottle, I was the one that decided that's the way I was going to run from all the issues at home. It wasn't her fault, it wasn't. And it just makes me sick to my stomach that you, that you carry that and I hate it and I can't remove that, except with time and except with my living amends, except just telling you you, that is not, that is not your burden to carry, that is.
Speaker 3:And bonnie's 14 years down the road right you know, and that's where I wanted bonnie on here to kind of help at some point did you feel, like where was your accountability in this?
Speaker 2:Like did I do something? Did I push him, or was there like the stressors of home and the family and everything else?
Speaker 4:I think I most felt guilty. The only times I really felt guilty was I'm a master enabler, so I would, when I would go to church by myself, I'd make up oh well, he had to work. Or, um, what was the? I just thought he didn't come to a lot of the family things. Um, I'd say he had to work. I'd make a lot of excuses um, I would always go buy the alcohol because I didn't want him driving, so I would go buy it. And then you know, oh well, I'm monitoring it, I'd seen exactly what. Well, I didn't know. He had a bottle in his truck and in the garage too.
Speaker 2:I enabled it for a long time, you know we had, you know here was we would go to costco and get the Costco pack of Coors Light or whatever he was drinking at that time and I would assume that this is the allotment that you know. Okay, look, I mean this is ridiculous for you to have anything over five, which I still thought was excessive, but you know, for him that was just getting started.
Speaker 4:Oh baby, that was breakfast, yeah, or Saturdays. If I didn't have to buy a gallon, the gallon of Jack Daniels, and I was lucky if it made it Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was one thing he wasn't drinking. I mean not saying that we didn't have a hard alcohol in the house, cause we did, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean there there was other alcohol in the house, but I didn't think it was, you know, like Pat and McKenna, their friends, which I loved them all they would come. They're garage sitters, so they all would hang out in the garage and which was fine, cause it was, you know, we. I'd rather them be here, you know, and they were all safe, which I was thankful for. Over age as well, so it wasn't like underage drinking. But if there was a handle or if there was a larger bottle of alcohol or something, I would make sure that Patton kind of brought it upstairs with them, because I knew that Larry was going to be the first one up and he would probably be drinking.
Speaker 2:That In my mind I knew that that's what was happening, but I wouldn't buy any alcohol for Larry. I wasn't stopping and getting additional beer for the house or anything like that. I would call on my way home and say, hey, do you need anything? I'm going to stop at the store. Do you want me to pick up anything? And he knew not to ask any longer because I wasn't buying him alcohol, because I wasn't going to enable him or contribute in that way.
Speaker 2:I just wasn't going to but it didn't matter, because he was doing what he wanted to anyways. And even when I was restricting, you know, when I took over all of the finances and restricted him and he had just a separate debit card that he used and there was a small amount of money on there, it didn't matter, it was still happening.
Speaker 3:So I just you know that she brings up those 36 packs from Costco, where I would drink, and then this is such a stupid I would drink, you know. Then I would bring a 12 pack home and fill that 36 pack up. So it didn't look like it was down this far. And why did we do that? Because we're just manipulated. We had, I had to have it and I didn't want her.
Speaker 4:You didn't want to get called out.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to get called out on it.
Speaker 1:I didn't want her you didn't want to get called.
Speaker 3:I didn't want to get called out on it. I didn't want to get into that argument. I have to answer right fucking chilled.
Speaker 1:I'm a child, yeah, we're a fucking child running and hiding the grown man.
Speaker 2:Child that's I didn't say hey, the night before. I mean, I just stopped arguing. I didn't want to, it wasn't really an argument, but I just knew it was going to turn into something bigger and there was nothing that I could say that it was going to turn into something bigger and there was nothing that I could say that it was going to make a difference unless.
Speaker 2:I left and I didn't want to leave. You know, if Miranda was home I wouldn't have wanted to leave Miranda either, but I keep saying McKenna because McKenna was still living at home, at home. So I didn't want to leave McKenna because I knew that McKenna, being like me, is going well. Miranda would have done the same, but they would have picked up the pieces. You know, they would have tried to manage things and I didn't want that burden on them either. So you know, if I could shield them from it, I was going to. And you know, I think my mom had a good inclination of what was happening because she was also my safe haven. But our business was our business and it wasn't anybody else's business. And what would it have mattered if I had talked to Larry's mom or dad about it? What were they going to do?
Speaker 2:Nothing, you know nothing, because in the situation was going to be the same. He had to make the decision to get the help. He had to make the decision to change his life.
Speaker 3:He had to my sister was texting me this morning. She just listened to, uh, miranda, miranda's or mckenna's one of them and she, she was just, you know, over the moon apologetic that she wasn't more involved and didn't see what was going on. I just said, sis, nobody outside this house knew what was going on.
Speaker 2:It's not her fault. I mean, it was evident in some ways.
Speaker 1:But to the extent we're pretty good hiders.
Speaker 3:I didn't want anybody outside. I mean, as far as everybody else knew, I was still just a casual drinker. I went to stay with my mom when my mom was going through cancer, outside. I mean, as far as everybody else knew, I was still just a casual drinker, right, I mean they, you know, when I went, I went to stay with my mom when my mom was going through cancer. I mean I would go sit over there and I'd have beer out in there in my, in my bottle of Jameson's, that would. I would blend in with my beer. My mom knew I was drinking beer. She didn't realize I had a fricking half thing of Jameson inside of it with it, right, I mean, it was just, it was just a miserable.
Speaker 3:Do you want to talk about a depressing period of time? Yeah, buddy, buddy, I'm telling you that. That, those memories of going through through all that and it was just, you know, and I think back now and you know, and I, I, you know, I, you know I can't fix a lot of the shit I did. We work through them, we talk through them. That's why I was anxious or excited to do it with my daughters. I was excited to do it with my wife. I love talking about it because when I talk about it it heals me.
Speaker 3:It makes me see. Not only does it heal me right, it makes me see okay. And not only does it heal me, it gives me. It gives me in tools to help somebody else right. And that's why we do this. You know it's one of the katie was just having a really hard time with coming on on. Did you have a hard time coming on, bunny?
Speaker 4:no, but it's been so much longer I've had so much but again, but do you see how hard it was?
Speaker 1:but you mentioned one word oh yeah you mentioned alcoholism she'll do that no, you mentioned cancer talking about it.
Speaker 4:No, she's gonna talk about.
Speaker 3:That's still too fresh right for sure, yeah, that, and, but as we work, I don't like to live back in that time, that period of time either.
Speaker 2:I don't, like you, know what's done is done and we had to go through that. I mean, thank God we are marriage weathered as well. And in ways were much stronger, for it as well. But I don't like to go back there. I don't like to live in that space anymore and I don't have to.
Speaker 4:I choose not to. I've been asked like, like. Is there things that trigger me? Is there something that he does that sends me back? That word alone triggers rob okay, but for her there may be, but for alcoholics there's no fucking I don't have any triggers, but I will say one thing I notice is there used to be a smell?
Speaker 3:oh.
Speaker 4:The smell that would come off of him, the way the bedroom would smell, and I didn't realize how bad that bothered me until recently. I got that smell again and almost threw up.
Speaker 1:It made someone else had that smell about them.
Speaker 4:And I did get angry. I was like you know, just I felt like I was gonna throw.
Speaker 2:That I cannot handle that I don't know how to explain it. It's funny how just one or two you know things. We this. I can't remember when it doesn't matter in the timeline when this was, but larry had a co-worker who was fun and we all went on a party bus for his birthday and we went to a Giants game. God.
Speaker 3:I forgot about this and it was drinking. I love this thing.
Speaker 2:From the moment that we met everyone else at the party bus to the very end until the time we got off. Honestly, there was jello shots on the bus. There was little airplane bottles beingello shots on the bus. There was little airplane bottles being passed around on the bus. There was all of these weed there.
Speaker 2:Yes, there was lots happening, which it at the moment. It was a fun day until it wasn't and I'm not sure that I can go to the Giants stadium again because he nearly fell down a flight of stairs because he was so bad and he nearly fell up as he was coming up to our stands, up to our seats, and he was just a mess and I was unbelievably angry with him that he had gotten to that point like why can't you control this? And it was just whatever was put in front of him. He was going to drink or he was going to eat that jello shot or whatever, it didn't matter, and he could have cared less what was happening around him and I was the one that was suffering for his actions. So we took our our grandson Kane is a huge Dodgers fan, and so we went to the Dodger Stadium this past year for his birthday, and walking down to our seats just brought back this horrible memory.
Speaker 2:But then it was also beautiful, because I'm so thankful to see how far he's come since then. That's not something I have to worry about anymore yeah, I got a question.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna read it. I love my book. We'll read a little bit.
Speaker 1:This is from the family afterwards you need a new book no, no, they say it's well loved uh, the head of the house ought to remember that he is mainly to blame for what befell his home. He can scarcely square the account in his lifetime, since the home has suffered more than anything else. It is well that a man exert himself there. He is not likely to get far in any direction if he fails to show unselfishness and love under his own roof. You go back. This should remind you of page 19. Fucking wrong, we feel. The elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and lives. So when you dropped him off over three years ago at Maynard's, I don't know if you foresaw the future. Have you even daydreamed about what life could be in sobriety, if this, if he is successful? Did you see this where you're at today and what do you when? What did you imagine? What do you? What do you think about where you're?
Speaker 2:at today. I was hopeful. I was hopeful that that he was going to embrace this, that he was going to learn something and that he would come out better. And his journey at Maynard's was not easy and maybe it was a little bit self-inflicted, Maybe. Well, I mean, I'm trying to give him some grace.
Speaker 3:Okay, it was extremely self-inflicted.
Speaker 2:It was hard for me to hear him, and then he was cautious of what he was saying on the telephone and there was no visits, there was no. Covid because of COVID. Well, really we're kind of coming out of COVID at that point, but still they had so many restrictions that there was no family visits, there was only phone calls and that was it. And so I knew that.
Speaker 2:I had a phone call with him about six o'clock in the morning and it was for about two minutes and that was it, and then he would call me later in the evening and again it would be about two minutes. And it was just because he was restricting, like what he was saying, and he really didn't want to talk about too much, he would. I could tell that he was frustrated and I was very, very worried that maybe this wasn't going to be okay do you remember hearing a interesting?
Speaker 3:do you ever remember hearing a change in my voice when I was at maynard's?
Speaker 2:yeah, I did. You were still cautious of what you were saying and there were some things that I think were happening there, um, that you you didn't want to talk about. You were still, which you shouldn't have any. What I mean there was some trouble with other people that were also in recovery there at the time that Larry was struggling with and that was very hard for him and he was trying to be kind and it was very hard for him to be kind to specific people at that time.
Speaker 3:I just remembered who you're talking about.
Speaker 2:This person graduated the same day as Larryry and I'm sitting in the car and he's having not very nice things to say as this person is loading their um. That was a drama their suitcase anyways, was there a change? Yes, there was, and I could tell that there was a market change in him, but it was like nine days before he was going to come home and then and here's the other thing there was.
Speaker 2:I can't recall what it was. I had to drive up there and I remember speaking with a gentleman there and kind of feel conflicted on this one but he kept saying that Larry hadn't bought into this program and he thought he was going to have to stay longer.
Speaker 2:And in my mind I was like, wow, this just cost us a ton of money and that we had to come up with this money very fast. And you know, there was that burden of it. And I was like, and this man is now sitting here telling me that my husband is not being compliant and he's not doing what he needs to do and he's not bought into this program and he's going to have to stay longer. And in my mind I'm thinking, oh, this is not going to go well with anybody with his job, you know, with his insurance, who probably isn't going to pay any more for him to stay. And then he's talking about him having to potentially go to sober living. And I thought, oh God you know this is all things that we did not prepare for.
Speaker 2:So how are we going to handle this? And you know, know me, I'm sitting here worried about these things. How is this all gonna pan out? And it was probably two days later that I got a phone call from him. And it was night and day from what we had, what I had heard, and I thought, okay, maybe we're getting somewhere with this. But then I could tell it was more upbeat for the days following and he was like I didn't know if it was excitement that he was getting out to come home, because I knew that he really missed us and he really wanted to come home. But it it was different. It was definitely different, but and I think that's just when he finally bought into the program.
Speaker 1:So he got home and went to meetings, yeah, and then he kind of got disillusioned. Jay, I mean I would say, but just because of the speed he was going, what did that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think Larry is very zero to 100. Yeah.
Speaker 1:True fact. I'm not much different, am I?
Speaker 2:So you know he wants to get in there and he wants to know everything. He wants to get the knowledge, he wants to get the information, he wants to implement the tools, all of those things. He just wants to do it today. You know, I mean no patience Zero.
Speaker 4:Zero.
Speaker 2:No chill whatsoever, not even even what do you nod your head?
Speaker 1:yeah, I get that anyways from him or me. You oh?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh yeah yes so you know what was I cautious, very, but you know our outlook and attitude. Okay, no alcohol in the house, like Pat McKenna and all other friends were still coming over and they were. All. Let me tell you the support that he had at home to come home to.
Speaker 1:It was awesome, it's amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:You know, and this is nothing against Miranda and Eric's friends, which are a separate set of friends who were also very supportive, still are, yeah, I know they are, who were also very supportive, still are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, they are.
Speaker 2:Everybody is very respectful. But again, because Larry was out in the garage sitting with Pat and Ken as friends and hanging out with them and they loved Larry. Everybody loves Larry. Larry Bear, everybody loves him.
Speaker 1:That's not Diane anytime soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's not.
Speaker 1:Doug started calling me that yeah lair bear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, I can bring in another one, but booger no, that's high school loco, larry loco larry, there you go.
Speaker 2:He had many football players that called him loco larry, but anyways, um, you know he had a whole cheering section waiting for him at home. All of their friends were happy and excited. Larry was back and it was a change we all kind of had to figure out. You know how are we going to be around Larry. You know no drinking, no alcohol in the house. And he set us all straight real quick because he said the alcohol is my problem, it's not your problem and I don't want you not to have the alcohol in the house. I have to learn to live with it in the house from day one.
Speaker 2:From day one and we were again cautious. But you know, I had to have faith in him and he always tells me I shouldn't have faith in him. But I do have faith in him and I put my faith in him that he's going to make the right decisions and he's going to continue to walk this path of sobriety. And I have to believe him, even if he doesn't want me to have that faith in him I've seen a lot of couples that have had the relapse and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:That's one thing I'm grateful for right I would not have stuck around through all that. I would not do the two, three, four, five I don't think I could either.
Speaker 2:I don't like I won't I can never go back. I love. I absolutely love what I have right now in the home, and you're so fortunate too, because you have been through this for so many more years than yeah, than larry, and I have as well, and you've seen a lot of those. What do you guys call them? Two steppers or something?
Speaker 1:three, three steppers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, or they're in and then they're out, and they're in and they're out.
Speaker 1:The hokey pokey drunken ones Hokey pokey.
Speaker 4:I like the California sober ones.
Speaker 1:Fuck them people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I like those ones. They make a lot of sense, yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyways.
Speaker 1:She's being sarcastic. I mean very sarcastic.
Speaker 2:You've seen the evolution of his walk in sobriety as well. So, and the people who have come in and the people who have gone out, and the people who are maybe no longer with us as well, she's had to really distance herself, because a lot of the hard stories that you've heard, right, she's had it in the families.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's been a lot of joy, right, there's a lot of success, but all those, especially when the kids are getting hurt, I don't share a lot of that stuff with her because she feels it, she's a mother and you shouldn't right, I mean I don't, I don't bring some of that stuff into Katie because, it's, it's not, you know, but I I will share with her a lot of the successes that we, that we see and have One more, and how?
Speaker 1:one more question for katie, and I've asked this to miranda and I've asked it to mckenna. Uh, the day larry got like the number one sponsor in the world. Uh, how did his life change?
Speaker 2:well, um, I was there at that friday oh, that's right you were katie, yes I know, I was there and you know this is sarcastic, I just fucking figured out what you're talking about you know, zero to 100 lar Larry's going to. You know good, go headlong into anything in which he's got sites on at that point. And so, yes, I was there. I was there, she was sitting right next to Friday, and I was behind you both Uh huh yeah.
Speaker 2:So, um, I was grateful and Larry did take it seriously that he I was grateful and Larry did take it seriously that he did go to a meeting that very first night, that he was home and he had this whole plan. You know, I'm going to bring you every receipt for everything I buy. So you know I'm not buying anything other than what I said I bought. And if that made him feel better then that was fine. But again I had to believe that he was going to make the best choices.
Speaker 2:so he goes to a meeting and then he starts mapping out meetings. Same thing and he was going to saturdays at jay's. He's going and I think he was getting a lot of it, but again he wants to go from zero to a 100 and we went to that friday meeting and he's maybe, maybe a month sober.
Speaker 3:I mean I know.
Speaker 2:I mean I'd only been with you a couple times technically, you're probably about six weeks out from from the start of your day at maynards to where you were, and because fridays are open meetings, so family can come, and so he was wanting me to go with him, which was totally fine. I was embracing this as well, because it was really something that had to become part of our life, and so Jay and Jeanette are lovely, lovely people and I'm grateful for the good work in which they do, and I really want to say they're like the head of that situation there but they're so respected and very well loved and I'm very grateful for them too.
Speaker 2:So, but yes, there was this guy who was there and Jay said oh, I want to make sure you meet Larry. And I remember turning and looking Rob and there's Rob. Really the biggest blessing. I mean, you are like a little brother to Larry.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:Be, nice.
Speaker 2:Literal, be nice. You got him to where he needed to be for sure. You got him through the steps, which are very, very important, and again, probably zero to 100, because Larry wanted to get moving on them. And so I'm very grateful to you, but not only for being his sponsor and being one of his closest friends, you also brought your community and allowed him into that community too. Tell so many other men that he loves them, because he loves brad, doug, jason, how could you not? Mike, there's so many men, monday nights, saturday mornings, and it's those meetings that he gets the most from. Oh, aaron sorry, aaron, don't forget, and I'm sure there's more, and please forgive me, but there are, you know. There's just random people that he's going up and talking to, which larry's doesn't meet any strangers I mean, everybody's his friend. But here's this like oh no, they're, you know, monday night men. You know, but he gets more from those meetings than a traditional AA meeting.
Speaker 4:Rob has actually commented a few times like we've gone to different churches. We like where we're at now. Commented a few times like we've gone to different churches we like where we're at now, but being at different churches he gets more out of the men right in his. He does, then he does.
Speaker 2:It's anywhere else you have a brotherhood there that is so strong that you guys all make each other accountable. And there's some Brad that are very real and tell and I love him for it because, just like Rob, he tells Larry what's what and you know, yes, but the fact that God built, oh God, it's not me, I mean God, god, and it's amazing and you know what. It makes me sad that there's some people in AA who don't have a community like Larry has.
Speaker 3:We all have, not just me, none of the Monday.
Speaker 2:I know, but, what I'm saying, the community in which you are in right now that where you per se get fed the most is in your Monday night group and your and your Saturday mornings. Those are what are very important to you, but it's all men and and whether it's you can be real and raw or whatever you know, but they also keep you accountable and they, they humble you in many, many ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we've talked about that group so many times on here and it's you know, I love my AA meetings because you know you're getting a different group of guys and you're getting a topic or you're getting you know. You know it's where we hear the serenity prayer and, like I said, I hadn't been to a Saturday morning meeting in quite some time and last week when I was in there we don't, you know, cause it's our money group is not an AA meeting, it's not. It's literally a group of guys holding each other accountable. We come in, we read, we talk, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:But I hadn't been in an actual meeting and I sat there and I started to say the serenity prayer in this group of 15, 20 guys that's in there on Saturday morning and after the first word I had to stop and just stop and listen because it was just I hadn't heard it in a meeting and when you hear a group of people saying the serenity prayer, it literally just melts you, right, right, because you, you, you. So my point is to be in that AA meeting is important for me, to be in there and to hear that serenity prayer, to hear the topic coming in and to hear other people's perspective on the topic and to do all that. But that Monday night group, that's my boys, that's that's my boy, we don't have to.
Speaker 1:When you're in an open, when you're in a regular, even if it's a meeting with men, you're tempered, not as much. In the Monday night group we don't temper anything. If you're in a meeting with women, they temper it more than I do, but I still temper what I say, just because hey, I'm going to start wrapping this up only because it's going in two hours, but I don't want to.
Speaker 3:I'm going to leave with an extremely important question to Bonnie and to Katie.
Speaker 3:If, and I've got one for you after you're done the way we are now, which I feel like I'm. You know, I was telling my sister this morning I didn't learn how to love until I went through the steps and Katie was like, well, that's weird, I go. No, I just didn't, because I was just a selfish individual. I wasn't able to give of myself. And when I gave of myself, I was able to get love in return, something I'd never felt before. Right, you know, and I've said this and Rob, rob, the way I say it, rob disagrees with, but not that I had to, but everything that I went through made me that, god, I didn't, everything that you went through Everything I've went through has made me the man I am today.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Right, that has made me. Did I have to go through that stuff? Nope, I didn't have to, but I did Right. Would you rather have the men you married or the men we are today?
Speaker 4:Today by far.
Speaker 2:Oh and by far. Undoubtedly.
Speaker 3:That's AA baby. That's God. Talk to me, katie.
Speaker 2:I mean, I loved him then I just didn't like him for a period of time and I love that it has a and him going through this.
Speaker 2:I don't think that larry could have gotten sober on his own. I don't think that what we were doing here. I don't think that because we're not equipped with it, we don't know, I know, and I honestly think that he had to have that total hiatus, away from work, away from the stressors and everything else that was going on. I think that he had to truly focus on himself. I don't think that he could have done this and I commend anybody who says I just stopped drinking. But you know, or maybe they just took off into the rooms.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need something like I just stopped drinking, but you know, or maybe they just took off into the rooms, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, and good for them. I mean it's awesome, but and thank God that they're here, you know, but again I left him then. I love him more. Now I don't want him to go back. I don't want any of that.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I hate that other people have to go through what we've gone through I do and it makes me sad, but there's very bright days.
Speaker 4:Just think of what they're going to have ahead in the future he wouldn't have had.
Speaker 2:you know, miranda got married six months after Larry. And some of us boys got to be there. What a gift. And how lucky he was to be able to walk her down, and for her too. Now McKenna is getting married in September.
Speaker 3:You know, I think this one is not that the love is different.
Speaker 2:Emotionally. You are handling McKenna getting married better. Miranda was still fresh. You were still fragile because there were mean I don't know about. Well, you did say it. You were kind of fragile even in the beginning yes, I was there. Uh, you know, you had that fragility and he was still I don't want to say struggling, because he was, he was strong in some ways, but I think he was still searching emotionally the right fit was right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, and things are still wrong.
Speaker 3:We don't know how to process a lot of it as it comes out you know my gratitude hadn't really hit home, yeah, not yet that six months, my gratitude, the depths of how grateful I am to be able to be a part of that right, to know that I was and am still just one drink away right. I mean from losing all of that right. I mean if I went back to drinking I would not come back. You know you and I have spoke this before I wouldn't be back, I couldn't do it again.
Speaker 1:I won't do it again. I'm sure I got another drunk in me. I do not have another coverage.
Speaker 3:And I've told Katie this if I decide to drink again, I'm going to quit my job, turn in my keys to my truck, sign everything I own over to her. Kiss my kids Goodbye, kiss my grandkids, goodbye. Go buy all the alcohol I can and go up in the hills and die, because that's basically what I'm going to be doing anyways. Right, but instead of doing it slowly, I'll do it quickly so they don't hurt as much. Right, because that's what's going to happen, you know, and those thoughts come up about oh, that drink. You know that, you know.
Speaker 3:I'm not only I'm at three. You know that three I'm at three. Never say only I know, and I always think about the guys that five to seven, right that we always talk about that five to seven, right in there. And I think, as long as I stay involved, as long as I stay in there, I don't have that. That's what.
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 3:Jason Ryan talked about he was struggling with it a little bit.
Speaker 1:He had heard it, he had heard it and he it, and he's like man, I need to redouble down right and he did that's what I?
Speaker 3:that's what you do you see a lot of these guys that go back out, that go back out and try it again because life got good, right, it's right around that five to six, right, yeah. So when I the thought process goes in my head, well, maybe I couldn't, oh, fuck that. No, because I, you know, I remember what. The second, the second thought, the first thought, don't hurt you. That's the second thought that's going to hurt you, right? But Pat always says that. Anyways, I don't know why I went down that road, but you said you were going to ask me a question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have asked it on 50, 51. Do you love your wife?
Speaker 2:you can see he does I know you know he, he's talked about me a lot on here.
Speaker 1:You know just a little and that's what we, that's what we usually get. I gotta break in and I get to, that's. I bring up your name so I can fucking talk sometimes you know, uh.
Speaker 2:I'm very blessed and ties back to what I want him, the man that I married at. The man that I have now and the man that I have now, because I feel more's just you. You become complacent in relationships sometimes and you just accept what you have and what will always be and it's a different and I, you know there was a period of our life when I was doing things independently and I would just you know, we don't live close to anything.
Speaker 2:We're 20 minutes from a target you know, hey, I need to run and get people towels and I have to go do this. Do you want to come with me? And he would say no, because he just wanted to stay home and drink.
Speaker 2:And I had just become independent and I was just doing my own thing. And then when he came home, no-transcript. But I didn't complain because I knew what he needed. I knew for him to be successful he had to be in these meetings. Knew what he needed. I knew for him to be successful he had to be in these meetings. And now it's not. I mean we were in san diego and larry was finding a meeting. You know we were in I think it was monterey larry was finding a meeting, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was it and I think you can tell when they need them you do, you can tell when they need them. You know it's like a little tune-up.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it has nothing to do with drinking. No, it has.
Speaker 3:For me, it's just being around my people, right.
Speaker 1:But I sponsor so many men, like I'm doing three right now, so I can't hit as many meetings, but that is my meeting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but those are many meetings in itself.
Speaker 4:Actually they're better than, but there's been times when you've been really busy at work. Oh yeah, you know before, I'd say before cancer, before you took this other position where you've been super busy at work.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 4:And he'll come home, you know, every day. And then, finally, about Thursday, hey, rob, I think you need to go to a meeting.
Speaker 3:We both need you to go to a meeting they just get so like I don't know, I don't know if I've that release. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever gotten to that. I and I've said this well, there's been times I couldn't.
Speaker 1:I would, because we're working night by a plant, like where brad's at right your hot plants going night and day. Right, you've got, you're working 14 to sometimes 16 hours. That's when I had a different boss so we could do that. You know, and you were just, I just didn't have time, homework, homework. And then she would, when she would say that I got that I better go, I better listen and go I know when I'm traveling, you know gone.
Speaker 3:You know I've hit meetings, you know on the road when. But it's to be around my people, right, it's never you know what. And I've said this. You've heard me say this you fucker, you had to, had to do it, didn't you?
Speaker 4:I just heard it.
Speaker 3:I heard him slowly, it's so hard to get that out, don't try. About three or four weeks into me coming home, I remember calling Katie. You guys have heard me say this multiple times, but I remember calling Katie when I left, when I left primary and I was about halfway home and I just told her. I said you know, I have to find a different balance. This isn't. This isn't working for me. I miss you. I want to be home with you. I didn't get sober to be sitting in a fucking meeting somewhere. Right, I want to be with you. Right. If I need to get a meeting, I a fucking meeting somewhere. Right, I want to be with you. Right. If I need to get a meeting, I'm going to get to a meeting. Right, if I need to be of service, I'm going to be of service. This podcast for me is a ton of service for me and it's healing for us.
Speaker 1:It is if I'm not working on.
Speaker 3:If I'm not recording, I'm working on how to make it better. I'm doing. I'm constantly doing something with the podcast and this, so I embed myself myself in here and if I'm very fortunate that I have a wife, that if I need to sit and talk with her, she will talk with me, right, she, she, I never I don't think I ever opened up to her when I was drinking.
Speaker 1:I don't think.
Speaker 3:I and I don't, but now I don't even think about it. I just sit down and we start talking, right, and it leads to just to amazing conversations, the conversations that her and I have had in my sobriety. There's shit that people should talk about before they even get married, right, talking about stuff that well, that would have been nice to know 34 years ago, or you know, just talk, you know, and you asked me a question and I'm sorry that it gut checks me because the answer is astonishing. I can't even begin to tell you.
Speaker 3:You know, before I got sober, before I did all this stuff and learning to stop and loving myself so much and being so selfish, I never got jealous. I didn't. I never got jealous, right? I mean, my wife is amazingly beautiful. Once again, I'll kick my coverage by a long shot. And you know, she would always get hit on in bars and she'd always people would comment on her this or that and it would always be. I'd always say, hey, take your chances. Right, it was never. But I'm going to tell you something I'm a jealous. I'm jealous now, right, I am, I am I just the thought of her running away with another man, anything? We finally love someone more than ourselves.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 3:God, the love I have for her is just. It's not a bad jealousy, because it makes me want to do more for her Right. And when I say that, I know my limitations on what I can physically do is extremely diminished. We're getting there. It breaks my fucking heart. We'll get there, you know, because I don't want somebody else to come in this house. I don't want another man to come in here and do a fucking thing. This is my house, this is my wife. I'll do it for my wife, you know.
Speaker 3:But I'm getting to a point where I can't do it. No matter what I do, rob and and I just got back from my hip doctor on Friday, you know, I may just be at a point in my time. This is all. This is the best it's going to get, and I'm starting to come to that.
Speaker 3:Okay, right, but it fucking sucks because, more now than ever, I want to do for her Right. I don't want to go outside and fuck around for myself and drink a beer while I'm mowing the lawns or doing this shit. I want to do for her and do for her as much as I can, but now I'm fucking limited on what I could do. It's frustrating, but you know what God's working with me on that, you know, and I'm learning to let go of that a little bit and I've worked a lot of the steps on my own to work through that, because you know I could call you and talk to you about it. But you know, and I've done a lot of this and I don't I don't suggest this to a lot of people, but I can talk to somebody that's a non-alcoholic and get what I need from them. Right, I could talk to somebody I know. I've talked to my boss multiple times on stuff and he's just got good wisdom and knowledge back to me.
Speaker 1:manship, yes, right it's exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:It's more manship than anything else, right anyways? So the answer your question. My heart is over over overwhelmed with love for not only her but my daughters, and why our capacity.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 3:Oh, and then, why I get more emotional now for McKenna is because the my gratitude has grown so much. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:And a year from now it'll be deeper, oh yeah, and deeper.
Speaker 3:And deeper. Well, shit, katie, how you feeling. Baby, I'm all right, this was good you feeling okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm good you want to add anything.
Speaker 3:No, I mean, I don't know Any advice for a lady that's watching her husband.
Speaker 2:Don't give up In the hopes that they get better and support their journey outside of their sobriety. What they're, you know the meetings, the need for a meeting. You know if they need to go and talk to somebody or go and help somebody, because that really does make a big difference in helping someone you know walking through that, but you're also not alone out there. There's a lot of us that have had to weather the storm in different ways. Bonnie's is definitely different than mine, that's for sure.
Speaker 4:I'm grateful that your kids don't remember or see yeah, I am very grateful for that.
Speaker 2:And there's not a lot of amends that Larry had to make to the girls, or even to our boys in regards to this, and I'm thankful that our grandkids will never know that drink. You know, there's none of that that he has to worry about, but he also. When our youngest granddaughter was born, he was sober and it was honestly for him.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was, he was a wreck. Well, it was good wreck, I mean he was just grateful, but it was again that gratitude he was, you know, he told us he could embrace the whole.
Speaker 3:Feel it, yeah, feel it, feel it you know, I hear people say it and I still go through it, right where you go through a period of you. Would you know you want to stab yourself so you can feel something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, buddy, you understand you know, and there's just that when you get to that point you know I literally was just thinking this the other day I mean I just and it's so hard to explain to somebody that has never felt that right Because when you're fighting depression or you're fighting something and you just can't feel, you don't have any joy, you don't have any pain, you don't have any sunshine, you don't have, there's just nothing there. You know, you just have to.
Speaker 3:you feel like you need to cut yourself to feel something, you know, something, you know and when. I, when I saw it, I was had only about him.
Speaker 2:When was she born?
Speaker 3:August. Who, everly, everly, she's April, april of 2023. Yeah, so I was a year sober. Um, yeah, uh, so yeah, it was uh, wait, no, no, no, that's not right, yeah, everly was a year sober, yeah, so yeah, it was Wait, no, no. No, that's not right yeah.
Speaker 2:Beverly was at Miranda's wedding. Yeah, she was.
Speaker 3:So I was over a year sober when Miranda got married. For some reason I was thinking, no, because yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, I was over a year, just Just over a year. So, yeah, it was just the feeling that I had when she was born. It was just. I never I hadn't felt that. You know, I watched my grandson and you know, come into this world that I was probably several deep. You know, when I saw that, my granddaughter, same thing, my second grandson or grandchild, your first granddaughter.
Speaker 3:My first granddaughter. And then I went and got recovered, went and got sober and then to watch Everly come into this world and to watch my daughters, you know, and my son-in-law, and watch that joy come into them. Talk about feeling every ounce of it. It was incredible.
Speaker 2:I don't know if either of the girls talked about this, but when Larry was in Maynard's you know it's kind of hard, I mean Camping you ruined it.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, we Cain gosh he was.
Speaker 2:I think he was in kindergarten. Brandon, you ruined it. We came, gosh he was, I think he was in kindergarten, if I, if I recall maybe first grade, but it doesn't matter. But um, he, cain, loves his Papa. And Cain, I said, you know, we, um Papa, was not home and he and the best explanation that was given to him was Papa was camping. So papa has a bunch of camping friends, so y'all are his campers you know it's been it's.
Speaker 3:It's enjoyable now because kane understands what I do. He understands the At 10.
Speaker 2:It's, he's very proud of his Papa and knows and and Claire, who is six, almost seven, she talks about it too, and not that alcohol is bad. They know that alcohol is not a bad thing. They just know that sometimes some people aren't good with it. So Kate is a and he knows that he's helping.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's actually talked to me about people that I've helped and it's just, you know, it's enjoyable, I don't know anyways you brought up something, though, about being in before you ask her.
Speaker 1:I want to share something with my wife. Okay, good, I never made this connection until now. Uh, you brought up about how we are in our addiction right in the alcoholism world. We're kind of inside battling and I talked about early sobriety, when you start feeling, but that internal, that time struggle was just like. Remember when the chemo hit me the first time and I'd be in here and I couldn't. I'd be in my own mind but I couldn't get out. That's what early sobriety was like.
Speaker 3:That was that was hard to watch, man. I was fortunate I didn't go through that. I just don't remember, I did not go through that.
Speaker 1:No, you didn't. I did not, I didn't. Every time I hear you talk about it it breaks my heart. You and I will talk later afterwards why it was that way. I'll tell you why it was that way for me and why I go through great lengths to do the way I do it, so men don't have to suffer that way. That's why I do what I do the way I do it. One because the old time is it. But and that'll tell you, but I don't want to hurt. I don't want to hurt anybody.
Speaker 2:That's what it was like for me. There I'm. You know, AA talks about your higher power, which ours is, our Lord and Savior.
Speaker 1:Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think there's so many people who are in the rooms sitting in some of those meetings where that's not theirs, no, and whatever they want to believe in is what they want to believe in. But not only has Larry's faith gotten stronger through this whole process, it's the graciousness of God in our life and what we have been given, what we've been able to do.
Speaker 3:Promises, baby yeah, promises Cannot get done.
Speaker 2:No, but it's what he's given back to us for his faithfulness as well, you know, and that's where my faith had to be and him to get through it, because I don't think that we would have had we not. And also the people who surround you. You know it and it could. It may not be your siblings, it may be your cousin, and it could be somebody who's not actually blood related to you, who you're, who you rely on, who are your greatest supporters, but who love you hard during those hard times.
Speaker 1:I like that quote love hard. I know what you mean.
Speaker 2:You need those people in your life.
Speaker 1:Yes, you do.
Speaker 2:And sometimes they come from the most unexpected places.
Speaker 1:That's a God thing.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. So yeah, the journey kind of sucked for a while, but it's pretty good.
Speaker 1:You want to ask her anything?
Speaker 3:You said you were going to ask her a question. No, you said you were going to ask your brother.
Speaker 1:No, I just wanted to share that with her because I wanted her to kind of, because it's hard to put into words, but she understands the cancer, the chemo, that chemo did to me yeah.
Speaker 3:I was going to do the same thing as I asked Katie Do you got advice for and I'm going to ask you a twofold right, because I feel like you battled two battles with your husband Do you got advice for women that are going through it and the cancer?
Speaker 2:Well, she doesn't have to talk about the cancer she doesn't have to.
Speaker 4:You get a pass. I don't suggest people do what I did.
Speaker 1:With alcoholism or.
Speaker 4:No with the cancer thing.
Speaker 2:No, Like I said, I shoved it down Um yeah, but sometimes when we scratch that surface, it hurts more. Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4:that's why I don't like to talk about it, don't bring it up If you don't mention it. I'm fine. I don't want to do that about it. I can't even tell you how many times.
Speaker 1:I've said I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:I'm not ready. I mean, Rob wants to ask me, Come on kid.
Speaker 1:If another woman came up to you and said I heard in the rooms that your husband went through cancer my husband's getting ready to go through the same thing he did Would you not talk to her?
Speaker 4:Of course I would.
Speaker 1:Even though it would scratch Of course I would.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to tell her what I went through. I Tell her you expect this expect this, that makes sense. But I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:Give her your personal feelings.
Speaker 4:No, because I don't think that's helpful for somebody. Don't do what I did, because I'm sure in like 20 years I'll be all screwed up from it. Need some therapy.
Speaker 1:I'll send her to Maynard's.
Speaker 4:My 30-day retreat. My turn, my turn.
Speaker 2:God damn it I mean it would be nice when I went on the beach in Mexico, or something that would be a much better 30 day retreat.
Speaker 4:I don't know, when I went up there and saw those little cabins, a little lake, I was like you pitch, you pitch, I want to stay in that one and I want to go have a campfire right there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you got it before he was like, yeah, it's not as yeah. Eight hours of sitting in class ain't heaven.
Speaker 1:I had a great experience from the second. I almost left the second day, but the crier Julie saved me. The third day I met Chris and then from then I was on a roll.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that took me about 18 days to get to that point. Yeah, I know took me about 18 days to get to that point. Yeah, but I was just. I was trying to fucking control everything about it. Rob. A end of a year, brother.
Speaker 3:End of a year yeah, here, here I'll drink to that yes, sir, that is uh that you know from the living to be swallowed drink monsters, you know we're gonna, we're gonna come back, and the wives are gonna come back, and we're gonna. We're gonna kind of uh for number 53, which is we're gonna record again, and we for number 53, which is we're going to record again and we're going to review the last year. We're going to talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 1:You got some notes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got some notes. We're going to do some highlights, do some update from some of the guests right and go through that the wives, it'll be a little bit funner one. I'm done with this family shit bud.
Speaker 4:I'm telling you that's but I'm telling you I'm done with it. Katie might do our own and just make funny couple hours.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you, in between the three, what it's done internally for the family has been amazing. What it's done for our listeners has been amazing. What has done for the podcast is I as God only know, because I feel like he's, he's starting to work in ways that is hasn't. Oh, it's coming, it's coming, anyways, but we're going to come back and talk about that, okay, but we're going to get on out of here. Thank you for joining us today. We hope you learned something today that will help you If you did not come back next week, and we'll try again.
Speaker 1:If you like what we heard, give us a five-star review. If you don't like what you heard, kiss my ass. I can't say that, can you? Anyway, if you don't like what you heard, go ahead and tell us that too. We'll see what we can improve. We probably won't change nothing, but do it anyway, hey, thanks Rob.
Speaker 3:Come back next week and hopefully something will be different and something will sink in. Take care.
Speaker 1:This has been.
Speaker 3:Recovery Unfiltered.