Recovery Unfiltered
Taking recovery discussion to a different level. Bringing comedy and the lighter side of sober living along with educating non-alcoholics and alcoholics. Hear real stories unfiltered.
Recovery Unfiltered
True recovery begins when you stop lying to yourself.
What do you do when you can't directly make amends to someone you've hurt long ago? How do you release the guilt of harmful words spoken decades in the past? These questions haunt many in recovery, and in this episode, we unpack the transformative power of "living amends."
The conversation begins with Larry sharing highlights from an AA convention in Canada, where a speaker's powerful message resonated deeply: "Higher powers will happen with or without me. Alcoholics Anonymous and the third step in particular is the invitation for me to get on board so I can stop getting dragged behind it." This sets the stage for a profound discussion about moving beyond our past actions.
Paul, with nearly 37 years of sobriety, offers wisdom on making living amends: "I don't do the things to them that I used to do." This deceptively simple statement contains depths of meaning—true amends isn't just saying sorry, it's becoming someone new. The hosts share practical ways they embody this principle: smiling at strangers, asking "Who can I love on today?" before leaving home, and shifting focus from self to service.
The most powerful revelation comes when discussing self-honesty. Many find their obsession with alcohol leaves at the exact moment they stop lying to themselves about who they are. This radical truthfulness—refusing to justify, rationalize, or minimize—creates the foundation for authentic change and makes the entire recovery journey easier.
We also explore the heartbreaking reality that we can't save everyone. People move at "the speed of pain," changing only when staying the same becomes too painful. This recognition doesn't mean we stop caring—it means we approach others with compassion, meeting them where they are without judgment, while being available when they're finally ready.
If you're carrying guilt about past actions or struggling to make amends that seem impossible, this episode offers hope through practical approaches to living differently today. Join us for a conversation that might just transform how you view your recovery journey and your relationship with your past.
Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. recoveryunfilteredpodcast@gmail.com
And Paul Larry loves it when we drink and swallow right at the microphone yeah, I'll fucker. Sponsored by Swallow.
Speaker 2:Hey, you know what I do got to owe you amends, though I'm going to hold on a second.
Speaker 1:Whoa. Then you put that fucker on air.
Speaker 2:That's going to be on air now.
Speaker 1:I'm getting better, paul. You're getting better about the effort, I'm not.
Speaker 2:Hello Robert.
Speaker 1:Hey, hello, robert. Hey, you're getting ready to take a fucking drink, right?
Speaker 2:there. Welcome back, brother, welcome back, hey, so that's so. We just finished up with paul. That was, uh, you know it's fun about your story, paul, paul's back with us. What was so fun about listening to paul's story was you don't hear. You know I I stayed in my same career, right, because I never lost anything. Paul went from having you, went from having zero to senior vice president of a huge you know, of a large healthcare facility. So I mean those. However you want to look at that, whether it's a dream coming true or just the promises, or however you want to look at that.
Speaker 1:Well, all Paul did was follow.
Speaker 2:Follow, walk through the doors that God opened. That's exactly where I was going he always does a foot and just if god says it, just follow it.
Speaker 1:You know, that's one of the things we say and I've shared this. I've even shared it with paul. I was at the uh, well, more than just paul, I think I was at the united spirit meeting. I'll try to, because when I first got in here and I've shared it I try to listen to everybody, which I didn't always.
Speaker 1:While there was some people, when they talk, I just fucking tune them out. There was one guy that I couldn't stand, primary purpose oh fuck, here he goes again. So I just tune them out and at this point I'm maybe two years sober and I've been praying for something, I mean working with God and not getting any answers. I thought and at the end of this guy Sherry, just happened to catch the end of it Like, oh shit, there was my cause, god, god speaks to me, right, right, like oh shit, there was.
Speaker 1:Now, am I going to humble myself and ask this guy at the end of the meeting hey man, I caught the end of it. Would you please Cause it's and the whole thing he says Rob, I love when you, and he doesn't know what I thought about him. I love him today. He doesn't know who this is anyway. That's funny. It taught me God, taught me more humility to listen, but there are certain men that I hear better. I listen to everybody, but there are certain Paul's one of them, bob's one of them, scott's one of them. I can hear when they speak.
Speaker 2:I can hear when they speak, I can hear them and I need that Very true, and there's some ladies that speak when Mary speaks.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I mean I get a lot from new people only because those are like scouts.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh, stuck in their ass. It was still no good out there. I'll stay sober. Thank you for doing my homework.
Speaker 2:I get when. When somebody says I got 24 hours, I'm all ears man.
Speaker 4:I want to hear it I want to hear their voice.
Speaker 1:I love seeing the pain.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, sir, you know what we're sick to want to hear that right.
Speaker 1:No, I want to see that pain, but if people don't, understand what we mean by that.
Speaker 2:Because if you see that sickness and then you watch that light get turned back on, the joy for us, right, the joy that we get watching that light come on, like we saw with Mikey Stillman watching that all that come back on, like we watched with Nathan. I mean Nathan was six years sober before that light just worked his steps and watching God is just he's just illuminating now and it's so fun. But I'm surprised you didn't make me do my amends before you started running your mouth.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't get it. I can't get a word at edgewise.
Speaker 2:With your big mouth, you started it. Prick, go ahead. Hey, you know how I gave you. You know how I gave you all the shit for uh, for you not having your face close enough to the mic right right and how I always got to mess with your volumes which is wrong.
Speaker 1:I always have my face the same distance. You know what the?
Speaker 2:problem what? I had this fucking mic inside my mouth talking. That's why it was so fucking loud all the time. I finally came back up here, I'm like I got to figure out why your mic is so low all the time. So I recorded on your mic and it was the same as how I speak and I realized, oh fuck, I must be sitting too close to the mic. So, yes, it was me. So was it was me. So it wasn't you. That's an amends that sucked. Who taught you how to make a? Go fuck yourself, jesus, my lousy ass sponsor. Yeah, so hey, I want to talk about canada a little bit. Go ahead.
Speaker 1:So I had, uh, it's freaking great right I went with dougie p who and jason r.
Speaker 2:Jason r, yeah, but me and dougie were travel partners. That poor dude had to travel with me and, for god sake, you've had to stay with me in my motorhome. I'm a very high-maintenance guy at nighttime.
Speaker 1:Paul, he likes to cuddle too. He likes to spoon. It pisses me off.
Speaker 2:But here you were small enough to cuddle, it was your motorhome.
Speaker 1:I got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2:Doug wouldn't let me cuddle with him.
Speaker 1:But man, I'm still a sugar net. When I wake up in the middle of the night, I need sugar.
Speaker 2:I'm good as long as I don't take one, if I eat one and maybe if I tried to go to sleep without it, so anyway, so it was, uh, it was awesome. It was super tough to get into meetings. There was meetings going 24 hours a day. There was you had an East side and a West side side and there was just all kinds of meetings and you had these little schedules not little there. You had these schedules and you know these, mine started from 9 to 11, and then another one's from 11 to 130, then another one from 130. I mean, they were just non-stop. Well, when I set up my schedule right, because I I was going by larry's schedule instead of going, hey, let's just see what happens, today I, I'm going to try and make it to this one.
Speaker 1:Let's let God work.
Speaker 2:today I'm going to try to make it to this one. No, I had Larry's schedule right, oh yeah. So I had one at 9 o'clock that I wanted to go to, so me, Jason and Doug all made it to the first one. I was like all right, what are you talking about? It's filled up. Why would you guys have something like this? Put these meetings out and it's filled up. Fuck. Now I got to find another meeting, so I was looking for another meeting. I went running over that one. It was on the west side. I went running over there and that one was fucking full. Now, Larry's pissed, you guys have these meetings but nobody can get into them.
Speaker 1:Well, the people can get into them. You just couldn't. There's people in there, just not you.
Speaker 2:So I went over onto this couch and I started pouting.
Speaker 3:I was just pouting Is that when I got the call.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's when I called you I was like motherfucker and I was pouting like a little bitch and this little old lady sat down next to me, right, and we're sitting there, we're just chit-chatting a little bit and I go, I've been trying to get into two meetings and I haven't been able to get into them. It's difficult. And she turns around like this. She's like did you try to go into that meeting? And it was come meet your neighbors from the East Coast, right. And I'm like no, it's. And as soon as those words were coming out of my mouth I realized what she was doing I go, I get it, Just get into any meeting, she goes, right.
Speaker 2:So Larry was humbled pretty fast, pretty fast. But then on Saturday we I was like I told Doug I said, hey, whatever happens today happens, right, here's a meeting I want to go to. And then we went to the first one and I'm still sitting there pouting a little bit, and because I just hadn't, I mean, and Doug and Jason were just going off about this other meeting and they were talking about how great meetings they were into and I hadn't been into one, and I sat, we finally, the three of us, went to the first meeting of the day and the first speaker came up and it was like, oh, this is good, it was better than what I've seen. But then the second one came up. This girl was Madeline H from out of new york and she raised the freaking roof of this place here here's the big spoiler alert.
Speaker 3:I don't know how many people are new in this room, but if you're new, I'm gonna blow the lid off the thing higher powers will happening with or without me. They don't need me on board, I don't have to sign off, I don't need to be in acceptance that shit is happening. Alcoholics, anonymous. And the third step in particular is the invitation for me to get on board so I can stop getting dragged behind it she went off for 20 minutes.
Speaker 2:I mean she, she just hold on.
Speaker 1:She used the f4 too, right?
Speaker 3:I don't know how many people are four things in the world that I care about more than anything else, and that is power, control, attention and affection. Those are the four things I am truly motivated by as a person and as an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:And so I was sitting there and when she said that, right there, I, I'm like this girl is inside my brain, right, I, I, I'm like this girl is inside my brain, right, I mean it was incredible how, when she said those four things, I'm like that's exactly what, I've all that, that's exactly it. And then, so she finished, I mean I got, I, I was able to, we were able to buy all the recordings, right, I was able to get several recordings and I actually got the one that Doug and Jason went into and I'm going to try and listen to it this afternoon. But so at the end of that, I'm like I got to get this girl on the podcast. So when she was done, she kind of came down off the stage and she was just surrounded, right, and I was like screw that.
Speaker 2:So I left and, uh, I went upstairs. I was going to try to go into another meeting as I was going up that escalator, god hit me, get your ass back down there. So I went back down there and I was standing there, standing right. I wasn't gonna wait in that line, because I'm Larry, I shouldn't have to wait in a line, right? No, you shouldn't.
Speaker 2:I mean, just look at me, you know who I am yeah, come on so I stood there for the longest time until that line finally got short enough and I'm like, well, she ain't gonna break away from that to come over and talk to me, because so I'll might as well go stand in line. So I stood in line. I finally got to the end of it and I told her. I said, hey, I got a podcast. I love, love, nothing more to have you come on. And she goes yeah, I go, can you? You know, can we talk at your desk? So she finished up and then, um, I got her number and I said can we meet afterwards, like outside? She goes, of course. So she came up, she met with us and we talked about it she's.
Speaker 1:She actually lives in new york, but she comes out here, uh once. She comes out here in june and she comes out here in december. So she was done. She was getting ready to fly back home.
Speaker 2:June's my sobriety, jim, december's my belly button birthday well, she'll be out here for your belly button birthday.
Speaker 2:So she's gonna come out years old so she's oh god, so she's gonna come out here record man, and I'm going to tell you I am she, she, when I was done, listen to her. Jason's like do you want to go to another one? I'm like, absolutely not, I'm done, I'm done. You know, and we would mean Jay, me and Doug did finally try to go into one, but it was full too, and I was like I told Doug, I said, you know, I am that, listen to her speak. What paid for my entire trip. As far as I was concerned.
Speaker 2:I mean I literally the from the Friday of just. I mean I got to a couple of meetings but they were blah, but then and but I got to hear her speak and she, her whole story was just incredible. Listen to her, just the way she spoke, it was almost like she was inside my head and I can't wait to have her on the show. So she's going to be here. Good, she's gonna be here.
Speaker 1:So you wanted to bring up um, I did so, uh, and this is this is gonna be for paul we got, because I'm not on social media paul at all, never have been. Uh, larry is so I had no, so he's I, he shares, I live vicariously through him, through the social media avenues and bonnie and my wife.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So here here I'm gonna read this is a. This is a from jim. I gave away his identity last time. It's jim hart. He's our age a little bit at larry's age, a little bit older 33 33 years as a firefighter, retired, living in Denver.
Speaker 1:Just jumped in. He jumped in AA with both feet, so he's brand new kind of. He says guys, I promise I'm not stalking you so I'll quit sending emails, but after every episode you ask us, the listeners, to let you know how you did. I'm old, so he's retired and he mows lawns on a golf course a day and catch up. Today I listened to Mike and Kim. It's Mike Stillman and Kim. They lost their son at the same time. Jason lost his son. I took so much from it. The support of Kim was so incredible and touching. I could go on and on about the story, the similarities and differences, but I just want to hit one major thing and have you tell Mike. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I played some music on my headphones for a few hours yesterday after I listened to your show Total 80s hits. I dig it. It took me back to high school and a bit of nostalgia. With those memories came a lot of reflection on the start of my alcoholism. Along with that, of course, came the memories of people and how badly I treated so many of them.
Speaker 1:I was actually feeling pretty low and guilty by this AM. I mean, how do you make living amends to people you don't see, and of course, at this point you can't make amends to someone. You had you treated poorly 36 years ago without hurting someone. So I was feeling guilty in the morning. Then mike got to talking about how much guilt he feels with kim, his wife. How could he make up for so many things? Then larry was talking about the same things with katie. Then rob the voice of reason always pops up with great insight. Thank you for that, jim.
Speaker 1:I guess the point is, by the time the show was over I felt so much lighter. Had Mike not taken it down that road, especially near the end, I may have walked away still feeling down, but didn't. So you wanted to help at least one person today. Today, that was me, so Paul, day that was me, so paul, and because I don't know a lot of the things that used to bother me I work in the steps were not so many things that I'd done to people, but shit that I had said, the hurtful shit that I had said. And you can't go back. Hey, remember when I called you a fat toad or you know whatever back then and you and you would hope they would forgotten about it, but you know they didn't, because I don't forget nope no, you know, sticks and stones is bullshit.
Speaker 1:Words. I mean words. My dad could have told me cut in, cut deeper than any, any lash, any whip I'd rather had a spanking so the question he asked is how do you make a living amends to people you would hurt, you know, and paul's got 30, coming up on 37, 38 years of sobriety. Paul, how do you make a living amends to people you would hurt years ago? What is it? What is a living amends to you? And and how would you answer that gentleman's question?
Speaker 4:this may sound too simplistic, but no, I, I don't do the things to them that I used to do.
Speaker 1:I you know or to anybody new right.
Speaker 4:The behavior must stop and and you know it's I've got a, I've got this, this health app on my phone that goes through work, and two of the things that it asks me on a daily basis have you shown yourself compassion with your emotions? The other thing have you showed kindness to somebody else and to me? Those two things I can always answer yes, no-transcript, and can I give myself forgiveness for, you know, for the things that I don't think I do? Well, um, my first sponsor instilled in me that just, just what you just said, there are people that I'll never be able to make amends to.
Speaker 4:Okay, but the but that's where the living amends comes in is is how we, we take the things that we used to do and the hurtful things and the selfish things that we used to do. We just don't do them anymore, you know, and if you want to flip that coin on its other side, overtly be kind to other people, I'll tell you something funny. It's something I learned years and years ago and I've done this as kind of an experiment. I still do it from time to time, walking in public somewhere and just smiling at people oh yeah and watching to see. Do they smile back? I don't, you know, don't get a resentment if they don't, you know, it's like that's their business, that's, you know, whatever, um, but that is one of the kindest things that you can give a gift to everybody and you don't have to know them, you don't have to say it doesn't cost you anything doesn't cost't cost you anything.
Speaker 4:Just smile at somebody. There are times when you know when that's gotten me in trouble. It's like what are you smiling?
Speaker 2:at Right. Why are you so fucking happy? What are you looking at?
Speaker 4:But the point being is, I don't care. I especially love it when I'm walking and I see and I'm reading the facial body language of somebody who looks like they're in turmoil or deep in thought about something, and maybe it's, you know, maybe it's something, maybe it's nothing, but if I can make eye contact with that person and give them a smile, I feel good. I feel good that you know, maybe they needed that and whether or not they smile back or whatever, I feel like that in a very small way, that's transmitting love Right.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, I tell you guys that Now you answered the question.
Speaker 1:You answered Jim's question. How do you make a living in men's? I think living in men's. I've got an answer myself.
Speaker 2:Well, and I've said this before on the living in men's, and I think Paul said it well is stop doing the shit that you've done right With my wife.
Speaker 2:I just had to change everything about myself right. And and those living amends. This is I'm kind of going on a couple of things here, there. If you stop doing the bullshit that you did, eventually right, Eventually that becomes the past right and you don't, and those things you become on a new persona and a new character. And those things you become on a new persona and a new character and that new character takes on a new life of itself and that old person dies away and they forget about that stuff. There's my living amends.
Speaker 2:My toughest time, my toughest time when I got sober, was forgiving myself. That was the toughest thing I had to do was forgive myself. And how I do that. Now, paul said it too. I give back to others, right. The more I give, the more I feel better about myself. I tell you guys in the group text every once in a while. I always say make a stranger smile, right. I used to tell that to my kids even before I knew this. Hug a stranger, right. I used to tell them that make a stranger laugh. Today. I just I've always felt that inside, you know, because when somebody makes me laugh that I have no fucking idea who they are. My whole day changes. My whole day changes Because if you're sitting shitty, you know. If you're sitting like Job, like pouting, and somebody smiles at you, you go huh, okay. Or you say what the fuck are you so happy for? You know, it just depends on how deep in the hole you are. But that's my living amends, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and mine is as practical. Because, if you ask, doug, because my last prayer we talked about this before I leave, because I do my 11th step upon awakening. We're going to retire at night. But before I drive away, because usually I have to drive somewhere, I ask God who can I love on today? Right, and Jim, this is my answer to you. And I ask God, who can I love on today? And sometimes it's the cashier at the grocery store who needs just a kind word or a smile. Many times it's in my own house, right, you know changing that, right, and it's always getting out of. And now that does not take away what I said 36 years ago Nope, nope. But I am not that man anymore and in my way, and I pretend that every time I do something kind for someone else, not just for the sake of being kind, God is blessing that person, that I said that harmful thing to.
Speaker 1:So I try to make it a conscious effort and in my way that's just every time I do something kind and get out of rob.
Speaker 2:god's blessing that person you're further and further away from that, from that prick right.
Speaker 1:You're further and there are times, paul, I have struggle and I get up and I'm not much, but I'm all I think about in the day and just, and it's a grind like mother, but I I mean it happens I mean you, you know, we are not well.
Speaker 2:This is progress, not perfection. We are far from being perfect. Far from being perfect.
Speaker 1:But and I want to say something what you had said about three minutes ago was one of the most profound things I ever heard you say, which was also the way you described it. So that's the only time you're going to get a fucking comment.
Speaker 2:I'm sure glad I got that recorded, yeah, but but it's the way I think.
Speaker 1:That is truly the way I think. That is truly the way I feel. Anything that gets me out of here is always a benefit. And when I'm sponsoring, I just got done with three men Sam just got done, three have been through the steps, one just went and got a job. It's awesome, I'm proud, I'm super proud of him. But when I'm pouring myself, when I'm giving of my time, my talents, my treasure, whatever God's given to me, treasure, whatever God's given to me and another human being who's filling me up, right, it's God, and that feeling is what I've been chasing all my life through sex, drugs, booze, yes, and I didn't know that's what I needed.
Speaker 2:And I'm the same way with you, rob the more I give of myself, the more I give of myself, and the more people reciprocate with thank yous and that kind of stuff. That's what I was looking for. Or, and that kind of stuff, that's what I was looking for. Or even if I don't get that, no, no, and you're right.
Speaker 1:But if I see by doing it, but if I see that person growing off of knowledge that I've given them, that's what.
Speaker 2:That's what I chased okay, now to thine own self, be true. Yeah, so about that. So, um, it was I. I don't want to go into a ton of detail on on the person, but I was. I got there, I got to go sit with somebody yesterday I just got out of rehab, right and talking to them and working through some stuff, and he was still such in so much denial and I, I actually what do you mean?
Speaker 1:He was just, he was still blaming, he was still blaming, blaming everybody else, right, right, right, he was still blaming some stuff, right, he was still blaming stuff, stuff, right, okay, he was still blaming stuff and you know he fresh right.
Speaker 2:So I don't want to start getting on a soapbox and pounding on it because I, I, I just was trying to be cautious of what, how hard I went right and and when I left there, I just called somebody and I said, hey, I just spoke with so-and-so, how is it? I'm like, you know, I don't think he's, I just don't know. And he's like, well, he can't be true to himself. And as soon as this person said that, I was like, yeah, he can't right. No, he won't, he won't right, he won't.
Speaker 4:Big difference and it's just like and it's what.
Speaker 2:So my question is this for me, my obsession for my alcohol and lying to myself left me at the same time, literally left me. At the same time I realized how much I was lying to myself about the man.
Speaker 2:I was right, and that obsession for my alcohol left when I stopped lying to myself, justify, rationalize or minimize stopped lying to myself of who I was and how I was supposed to be and just started being very true to myself. In my inner thoughts, right In my inner thoughts, life became easier. Just this whole walk through a just became easier for me. Everything that I do become easier because now I'm true to myself, right, I don't I. I, I respect what you say, but I'm still going to what I feel is going to be how I feel. How I walk is going to be how I walk. How my Lord tells me to walk is how I'm going to walk. That's being true to myself. And if I have to tell you stories about myself, no, right, I can't do it. And so my question is is do you remember, when you that? Do you remember that actual, that transition in yourself to where you stopped lying to yourself and you started getting real with yourself because he'd hit me between the eyes with things that I didn't even realize.
Speaker 4:And that self-introspection thing about lying to myself, it really I mean, that was several years long and it continues to some degree. Oh yeah, I catch myself.
Speaker 4:The way I describe it in me is what is my motive? Is my motive selfish? There's a difference between my wants and my needs, and is this something I want or is this something I need, and not just beyond? You know, not just. Is this what I need? Is this what I need to be able to be the best person, I can be right, so that I can be of help to other people? It it's, it's a you know, um, yeah, but that that lying to myself, I lived in lie. I mean, lies were tools for me to be able to get what I wanted, you know. And so, as far as a conscience about truth, I had none. And then getting in here, you know it's a whole different realm of thought and feeling when you start getting into the introspection in yourself and start asking yourself why am I doing this? You know what is my motive for doing this, and I mean down to the thoughts.
Speaker 1:And the big book is full. That's what it is. Motive why? Why are we doing what we do? Because, if God can, does God care about what we do with our hands? Obviously yes, but does he care more about why we're doing it Right? Obviously, because, if he can get to your heart, he can change the outcome of your hands, the outworking of your hands. Motive is everything.
Speaker 4:I heard this more than once coming along is that you're right where you're supposed to be. Okay, you know and, and and but. But the thing is is for me, and I think the difference was was that when people accepted me where I was and they could, and yet they still showed me the love and compassion that, that you know that that it was like okay, whatever you're you're, you're where you're at. Just know that that I'm here for you. I'm here, I'm, you know, whenever you're ready, if, if something changes.
Speaker 1:Great advice. I need to listen to that.
Speaker 4:I want you to know. I want you to know that I'm here and that there is. You know there is a solution and, and you know you may not be ready to hear it or want it now, um, you may. You may want to blame all your problems on here and, you know, on everything else around you and everything. But when foot back to what you said, you move at the speed of pain, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so yeah, he, he. I made it very clear that I'm I want to help, right, I'm right here, but I mean I think there's a.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I, I don't know where that's going and I, well, we spoke, I get, and I, and I'm not gonna, I get frustrated because none, I've heard. Paul, there's a guy, he's dead now, but in there, the old, uh, friday night meeting, I'm not gonna. Uh, he, he had said one time I was, I had like four, three or four people in there. You know when that meeting used to be huge, remember before COVID and this old timer who's a prick Sorry, don't erase that, he was a prick Anyway but he had said some of us got to do.
Speaker 1:One person, one of those newcomers was sharing about they just lost a cousin who didn't have them, and then his next share was some of us got to die so others can live. No, no, some of us will die, but they don't have to, right, we don't have to. And me and Larry get, we're passionate, we get frustrated because you know, and I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm never going to stop looking for that one word To maybe think I can stop them from one more Right, I can save them from one more episode, right, and they get it. I may never, because we move with the speed of pain, but I need to let people be where they are a lot, yeah, so I appreciate that.
Speaker 4:Isn't that in some way us playing God, though?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:It is, and it's just that it goes back to my control. I'm just a control freak, right?
Speaker 1:I want to be able to pop his head open, turn a couple screws, shut his head back down and he's fixed or not fixed, he's ready, ready already, yeah receive, but he's not ready and it's not for. It's not my job to get him ready.
Speaker 2:No, it's my job to be prepared when he is ready right and and be available when he is right, and that's what I think. When I go back to that, the more I think about you know, and I think there's a lot of people that were asking me to go see this person Right, and I, you know, I feel like there was a little bit of a pressure put on me, but about it and I probably put it on myself is probably what I did but I just want to help people so much that I just want to be able to just drag them in and say just follow me for a little bit. I ain't perfect, but I can help you show a way.
Speaker 1:But our book talks about it and I know the book a little bit. It says you know, we can ruin a later opportunity. Yes, and I was reminding myself of that, which is where you know, paul, that's where the wisdom of it you know.
Speaker 2:And I reminded myself of that yesterday when I was sitting with that guy. It's like I had to back away a little bit because I didn't want to. I just was like, okay, we can ruin a later opportunity, Right right, and I just backed. But he's sober, he's got 45 days sober, so I mean he's, I mean he's God bless, yeah, he's there, he's working it, you know.
Speaker 4:So, anyways, that's really what I wanted to talk about. One of down. I'm not going to chase you, I'm not going to try and force this down your throat. The only thing I can do is share my experience strength with hope with you and point out to you, when I you know, the things that I observe and see, that that you know, that I think I understand about you. He said but your recovery is your responsibility.
Speaker 1:We've shared that too.
Speaker 4:It's your life. It's your recovery and that's, and I and I tell people. You know, and I've seen I mean most recently there was a guy that I sponsored on and off for a while uh, used to come to the night's ferry meeting, um, uh, he would come in and out and you know, and I and I, I just tell people, as long as you're still alive, there's still hope, right yeah, yeah, but it goes back to what we talked about in the previous episode, or maybe it was this one a little bit earlier.
Speaker 2:But it's like when you know we all, when did you say they're going to come? When they're ready, right, when they're ready.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they die out there and they don't make it. I think that's the thing.
Speaker 2:That's the part that hurts me. Right Is that you don't have to die, man, you don't have to die. But what is that? Like, I got a friend that lives in Texas and I'm trying to help with the daughter right now and he's just like she's hopeless. She's hopeless and I'm like, well, as long as she's alive, there's hope. And we'll just keep working, we'll keep talking, keep praying.
Speaker 2:And this whole podcast started from a guy that just kept working with his son, kept working with his son. Kept working with his son Kept a roof over his head, kept helping him. Kept helping him Just happened to take the wrong dose at the wrong time. Right, he didn't do anything wrong. You know, my friend didn't do anything wrong, he did everything right. He just the son just wasn't ready. Right, just wasn't ready. And some of us don't. And it just goes back to what I want to talk to the very. They just weren't being true to themselves. Right, they weren't, they were still telling themselves lies. That this is just where I'm going to be, this is where I'm going to end up.
Speaker 1:So I justify, rationalize and minimize the minute. I'm doing that, I'm lying to myself. And once I'm thoroughly convinced that I'm going to lie to.
Speaker 2:Paul and once's, something that I could text I got back after leaving my discussion yesterday was that you know, he's all these things. I'm like I was every bit of that. In fact, I was probably better than he was. So I mean, he's no different than the rest of us, right? He's no different than the rest of us. We're all liars.
Speaker 1:So, paul, given your, there's a question I want and I asked Rachel, she wasn't, she doesn't have what you have as far as you know the experiential aspect of it. But I'm going to go, I'm going to go back to on the street, you know, we see him. How many have I mean I mean ballpark are out there because of drug and alcohol abuse? How many have mental, mental problems because of drug and alcohol abuse? And how many are out there, you know?
Speaker 2:just because of mental health yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I mean what? What do you? What can we do to help more? What can we do, I mean when what's out there, because I can't deal with the mental health issues, but someone with drug and alcohol addicted whether you know whether that's brought on, I mean I can I've got a good friend that um, actually he sits on our community board, um or hospital and he's just, he's a, he's a just a I mean just to me he's a saint.
Speaker 4:He actually goes out on the street yeah, and, and he take and he takes things like uh, you know the wintertime blankets and sleeping bags, and he's not. He is not in any way ever asking anybody to do anything. He's there to try and make make their life as comfortable as he can. I mean, um, and, and to me it's like, wow it. It takes, it takes a lot of heart to to just go out and try to to see to someone's comfort, rather than to try and save them.
Speaker 4:You know, he's not trying to bring them in, he's not trying to do anything Certainly can share. You know where there's resources, but those people out there that are just, I mean, you stop and think they're lost. They're extremely lost and things have happened and I speak from my own experience about. You know they came from somewhere. You know they probably didn't ask for you know they came from somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know.
Speaker 4:They probably didn't ask for, you know, to have this life, but they've somehow managed to navigate this life, you know, the best way that they can, and that is their circumstance. I think we there's a reference in the Bible about, you know, about the poor and saying when Jesus said, we're not going to save them all, we're not going to save the poor from their lot. And then there's other lines of thought in that same thing. It's our mentality that puts us in that place, that thinks that that's where we can't climb up out of that. And I don't know, I mean, I'm not going to get into that deep a thought. What I know is that it would be an impossible task to think that we could go out there and really save a lot of people.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of people out there suffering. I know that. Again, it comes down to for me it came down to the circumstances that were, you know that presented themselves, and I just pray that they have those circumstances present themselves to them. I think everybody has the deserves to have the opportunity to live, to live a safe life where they're you know whether or not they're not, um where their basic needs are being met and and I think we do as a society. Society, we try to do the best we can but, uh, we fall far short, largely because of our greed. We see power, greed and money and all this other stuff. There was a TV evangelist, and I don't necessarily care for a lot of TV evangelists because there are a lot of times.
Speaker 4:But this guy. He made a very profound statement. He said we have the money and the resources to solve homelessness, hunger, all of that. We have it, we just don't do it. And to me that was like wow, yeah, okay. How long has that been going on Since recorded history? You know civilization, the haves and the have-nots.
Speaker 4:I look at, you know, I love anthropology from the standpoint of looking at which civilizations have done the best at trying to, and there have been civilizations and societies that they actually look after their people. They, you know they don't let. You know, they don't let people suffer. They'll, you know, they'll look after them. You know everybody is their brother and sister.
Speaker 4:We just don't live in that world right now, you know, and so you know, what can I do? I can use my position and the things that I've been given, the doors that have opened for me, to try and do the best I can, to try and make something better, and I think for all of us it's. You know I vet charities before I give money to them. You know I vet charities. Before I give money to them, I look online and see how much of their money actually goes to the thing that they're trying to do, rather than you know how much of it goes to administration and cost and things like that. So I mean just things, that just being conscientious about what can you do, are you doing what you can? Don't hold yourself. You know, know, don't beat yourself up. For for all that, I don't know what god's plan is for this world. I know, but I, I know this isn't anything new it's been gone for thousands of years all right all right guys.
Speaker 2:Well, robert, thank you, you're welcome. Paul, thank you for coming in, appreciate, appreciate it. Hey, don't forget recovery on filtered podcast, that gmailcom If you want to reach out. Recovery on filter podcast. Just like our boy heart did from Denver, he said I haven't even told you. He's actually going to be in studio so we're trying to work out the date, but he wants to come. He wants to come to a few meetings with us and he's going to come in and record. He's going to come in and record. He's got some PTSD stories that's going to tear your heart out. 33 years as a firefighter, he told me in one day, one day he had to pick up three babies from Sid in one day. That's just horrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that'll drive you to drink.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, yeah, so I'm excited to get him in here. He's going to be in here. All right, guys, let's get out of here. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. We hope you learned something today that will help you If you did not come back next week, and we'll try again.
Speaker 1:If you like what we heard, give us a five-star review. If you don't like what you heard, kiss my ass. I can't say that, can you? Anyway, if you don't like what you heard, go ahead and tell us that too. We'll see what we can improve. We probably won't change nothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks, Rob. Come back next week and hopefully something will be different and something will sink in. Take care, this has been Recovery Unfiltered.