Recovery Unfiltered
Taking recovery discussion to a different level. Bringing comedy and the lighter side of sober living along with educating non-alcoholics and alcoholics. Hear real stories unfiltered.
Recovery Unfiltered
The Tiger Sleeps But Never Dies
Shawn shares his journey from growing up in a household where drinking was normalized to finding sobriety and reconciliation with his oldest daughter after years of addiction and separation.
• First introduced to alcohol at age five when his mother gave him Schlitz malt liquor for a head injury
• Military career cut short after testing positive for cocaine, returned home to continue cycle of addiction
• Made the devastating choice to step away from his daughter's life when she was six years old
• Hit rock bottom after experiencing hallucinations during a methamphetamine binge
• Found sobriety in 2015 and has maintained it for almost 10 years without traditional 12-step programs
• Recently reconnected with his oldest daughter who told him "I don't blame you"
• Credits his wife Mary for supporting his continued growth and helping facilitate reconciliation
• Now raising their two-year-old daughter with intention and awareness
If you're struggling with addiction, know that it's never too late to make changes. Recovery isn't a destination but a journey, and healing is possible even after years of separation and pain.
Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. recoveryunfilteredpodcast@gmail.com
What no?
Speaker 2:pray. Okay, all right, heavenly Father, we thank you for Sean and Mary. Father, we ask that you sit with us. Father, open our hearts, give us strength to tell the truth, give us strength to save a soul. Father, we ask that everything we speak about saves that one soul that we work so hard to get to. Father, we praise all these in your name, amen. Let's go to work. What are you reading?
Speaker 3:The Two Powers. Hi, Rob, how you doing buddy? Welcome back, prick, I mean Rob.
Speaker 2:God damn it. What are you reading? The Two Powers, hi Rob, how you doing buddy, welcome back, prick, I mean.
Speaker 3:Rob, god damn it, hey, but you notice there's no toilet mentioned. I love it.
Speaker 2:You like that better?
Speaker 1:I love this much better than you sit on the toilet, don't you Fucker?
Speaker 2:don't use that. I still got it. Don't fuck with me. I still got it.
Speaker 3:Not my wife. No.
Speaker 2:No, you're done with it.
Speaker 3:We're done.
Speaker 2:I'm done with it. I'm not going to take him off of here, though.
Speaker 3:That's fine, because every once in a while or you sit on the toilet.
Speaker 2:Just every once in a while I want to sit on that toilet, hey. So we got our guest coming in today. He listened to holy shit, I just turned myself up way too loud he just he listened to, um, our McKenna's and Miranda's story and he, he messaged me on Instagram. Uh, through that way. And when he did, I started I was like, oh, let's do this guy. And I saw that he's from the local area. I'm like huh, so I go in to see all his friends. And so I get down there a little ways. I'm like huh, that's my son-in-law. So I texted, I sent that picture, the screenshot of it, to Pat, and I go hey, do you know this guy? And he goes yeah, he rides the Pismo with us all the time. I'm like well, he just reached out to me. Did you know he's sober? He's like no, so you must handle that pretty good. Welcome in.
Speaker 4:Come on in guest. Thank, you.
Speaker 2:Uh, I am sean. I am a professional recovering, alcoholic professional recovering alcoholic.
Speaker 4:I like that. No, I just spit out there because I know you guys say that you aren't professional.
Speaker 2:So we ain't no fucking professionals. I can promise you that. All right, you shit about us.
Speaker 3:That's professional there are no letters after our names so tell us a little bit um, yeah, I decided to come.
Speaker 2:You know, reach out to you um he's nervous a little bit I know, and get that mic in front of your brother okay, there you go, that's good okay, um, I decided to reach out to you.
Speaker 4:Um, I recently reconnected with with my oldest daughter. What do you mean by reconnected? Started talking again.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:Actually, which brought up all kinds of emotions.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 4:Listening to your daughters on your podcast. I don't know Like I said something inside of me, felt like I needed to tell my story. Okay, even though I've downplayed my story all these years because I didn't have a bunch of death or I didn't, you know, yeah, a story like mine is kind of a yeah, yeah I drank a lot and did a lot of drugs, basically.
Speaker 3:Hey powder accelerants.
Speaker 4:Those are going to be coming up a lot.
Speaker 3:Spalted bottles, powder accelerants Love those things.
Speaker 4:So yeah, and you know it took you what two weeks to reach out to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I'm horrible about looking at messages.
Speaker 4:I was like all right, well, maybe he doesn't want to no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I've done the same thing multiple times with other people. I'm. I've done the same thing multiple times with other people. I I'm horrible. In fact, if any of our listeners wants to run my social media, reach out to me, cause I'd be more happy to let somebody run that thing. Yeah, I'm horrible and I missed it, so I apologize.
Speaker 4:No, no, no worries at all. Thank you for reaching out.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Um, so I guess I'll start from the beginning. Um so, I was born in 77 to a single mother. My father passed away about three months before I was born. He was in a motorcycle accident in La Grange, and then we lived with my grandparents for a couple years out in Hilmar and then my mom remarried my stepfather when I was two or three, somewhere on there, and we moved to Diné You're out in Portageville, buddy.
Speaker 4:In Hilmar yeah yeah, yeah, not knowing that I would end up back there, um, but yeah, we moved to denier um, and you know, if you know, denier, there's got some, some rough boys out there too, right, pretty rough johnny johnny's from that area oh yeah, johnny. So my stepdad was in Vietnam. He sprayed um Agent Orange um. He got sprayed or he did. He sprayed it. Okay, yeah, did he get cancer?
Speaker 4:uh, he got MS actually yeah, so um he ended up passing in in 85, um, which really you were young yeah, yeah, you're still eight, nine, eight years old yeah, um, and he had been the only father I knew um in a welch in a wheelchair for half the time.
Speaker 4:I knew him right, um, but so he was on 100 military disability, va disability, um, my mom cleaned houses, part-time um, and I remember my mom would make a weekly trip down to I think it was called Barrel Inn at the time in Diné, to pick up four cases of Schlitz malt liquor. So, cases back then came in four six packs on a cardboard flat.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:But I I distinctly remember those being, uh, brought into our home on a weekly basis and since he was a you know a hundred percent disabled um and in a wheelchair like that, was their thing, right. They, they like to drink all the time, um, which kind of normalized it for me. I think. You know, that's all I saw as a kid, so I figured that's, that's what you do, um, my first experience with alcohol was when I was five on the 4th of July. I had there was a um we're out in the backyard and I had hit my head on the Eve of the doghouse, right, and it started bleeding. And you know, instead of putting a bandaid on it or give me some you know Tylenol or whatever, Know where this is going.
Speaker 2:Small liquor was the answer right here.
Speaker 4:Take a sip of this. That's what you do Rub some dirt on the sun.
Speaker 2:We grew up in the 80s, baby. Come on, that's how we fixed it.
Speaker 3:So for Sean that was 82. Right Slit some dirt on the kid.
Speaker 4:And like I was telling my wife, like that was as common as you know, drinking out of the water hose or you know, letting the kids run the street, ride their bikes everywhere.
Speaker 3:When you couldn't drink out of the water hose.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right, yeah, I wouldn't do that. So, yeah, it was very normalized for me. And when my stepdad passed away, my mom took it pretty hard and she continued to drink and have have um, I wouldn't call them boyfriends, but have people over every every now and again and she did end up getting a boyfriend shortly after that. Um, and he was. He was an alcoholic right. He would come home on Sundays after golfing and you could just tell like he was one of those people that just turned bright red you know, when he drank and slurring his words, which, you know, it led to arguments in the house.
Speaker 4:Obviously Right, it always does. And I distinctly remember one time he had put his fist through the, through the kitchen window, because my mom had locked him out of the house. And. I remember hiding in my bedroom and you know, coming out and to him he cut his arm wide open and you know my mom called the cops and he was taken to jail and then they got back together, right, like it was a vicious cycle back and forth and you had to watch that.
Speaker 4:I did. Yeah, I, I did, and not knowing it different. Like I said, right, this, this was common occurrence, this was, this was how life was lived. Um, and hearing stories, you know, like my uncle flipping his brand new gto 69 judge on his roof being drunk, my uncle getting kicked out of the house and sleeping in the barn. You know my grandma going to look for my grandpa on payday when he worked at Roy M Days.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh yeah, you know when Roy M Days. It was a mill, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But you hear those stories back then and you know people laughed about it, not saying like like, oh right, well, maybe that person had a problem, right right, you don't think about it like that.
Speaker 3:But my wife's uh grandmother. When her grandfather made a home with the check, sometimes she would time in bed over the weekend so the check would, so they would have money for food and stuff.
Speaker 4:So yeah, we laugh now, but yeah wow, you know serious problems, right, and those are that generational trauma. You know that we obviously try to break, but um, there wasn't a second thought back in the day.
Speaker 4:Um, at least it wasn't in my family, um, so I continued on. My mom dated this guy and my grandparents were getting up there in age so, um, she decided to move back to Hillmar to take care of them. Um, and that was my seventh grade year, I believe. Um eighth grade I started in Hillmar. You know, a bunch of new people leaving all my friends behind. For for all those years um was kind of hard, but I made some good friends pretty quickly. Um, mom was still with this guy, you know. They finally broke up and she was single for a little bit and then got another boyfriend shortly after this guy she had went to high school with in Hillmar. And, yeah, another alcoholic right, amongst other things.
Speaker 2:Was your mom an alcoholic? She was a drinker. He's well, I yeah but I just wanted to hear that, because you, she has, she has a type for sure, right was she?
Speaker 4:yeah, okay, yeah, definitely, um, yeah, and that's uh, that's a story we'll get into in a little bit. I, I think Um. So yeah, moved. Um was very close with my grandparents. You know, I lived there the first couple of years of my life and then moving back there, and I would always but where did you move from back to him, Are you?
Speaker 3:where were you at before you moved back to? Or you were in dinner, yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, I was in for eighth grade in hillmore. Um, yeah, she got this new boyfriend and it was pretty. Drinking was normalized, as always. Um, and then did eighth grade and then the summer of my freshman year, um, and I played basketball and pop corner, you know surprise surprise six four no, but it's tall, he's an inch taller than me, but he's he's wider than me.
Speaker 2:He has big old shoulders on him Wider down here. I wasn't even looking at that.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I did play basketball in Denier and Pup Warner football in Turlock. So the summer of my freshman year, come to find out I had basically a birth defect in my left hip that um needed. I needed a pin put in it to hold it straight. It was kind of cockeyed, um. So the recovery from that was basically nine months no body weight, no kidding, wow, for nine months.
Speaker 3:So cause you were still growing.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So the first day of my freshman year of high school I was on crutches, outstanding For the whole year, right and that kind of you know no chance of playing any sports, obviously. Kind of an outcast too. Yeah, yeah, I did have you know my my friends that I'd made from the previous year, my eighth grade year, but um, and they all played sports and stuff, so I needed another outlet.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And that was kind, of you know, self soothing.
Speaker 3:What'd you find?
Speaker 2:Fucking Rob, you get so excited. Well, what'd you find? You know?
Speaker 4:there was always beer in my, in my fridge, right In my mom's fridge, and Schlitz and not at the. I think we switched the Keystone. Oh shit.
Speaker 4:Okay, stone light Right. 30, 30 stones, yeah, um, and I found that cause they would come home in the evenings and drink right around the weekends and drink. So I found that if I just took all the cans out and left the two beers, the two empty spaces for the beers that I drank in the back, and just moved everything forward, by the time each one of them went to go get beers. You know, it wasn't a second thought, right.
Speaker 4:They wouldn't even know they were missing. So that that did work. For a little while. I did dabble in, in, in, weed a little bit, but it wasn't not for me, man, I don't blame you.
Speaker 2:It's going the wrong direction. Going the wrong direction, yeah, yeah I don't need that.
Speaker 4:I don't want to come down and didn't even think about, you know, depression or anything like that at that time, you know being they weren't even talked about depression in the 80s.
Speaker 2:Well, this is probably getting close to 90 now, yeah yeah, 1990.
Speaker 4:91. Freshman year of high school.
Speaker 2:They still weren't talking about mental health back then no, no, and being you know, you were a pussy.
Speaker 3:Your freshman year was my senior year.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah, Where'd you go to school? Oakdale, oakdale, okay, yeah. So I continued on that path pretty much after I got off the crutches, like lost interest in sports. You know, still had good friends that played sports and I would play with them on the playground, but not really no organized sports going on for me, and football was out of the question because I could not.
Speaker 3:How did your hip heal? How did it like your sophomore year? I mean, did it, you was good. Mobility, full strength uh, no, no.
Speaker 4:No doctor said uh any any large impacts could, could definitely okay injure it, re-injure it um so the pin's still in there I got a titanium hip. Oh, do you?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard the surgery got it out of the cracker jack box. Works like a champ.
Speaker 4:Better mind um, and my, my mom, I think, for the fact that she knew I didn't have a father and didn't have any good father figures that that she had brought around, she kind of felt guilty and so I was. I was a spoiled brat man, like anything, anything I wanted my mom so she parented out of guilt.
Speaker 4:Yes, definitely, and I can't, you know, I I can't blame her. Like she did the best she could with what she had at the time and like I said back then, you know, a lot of these things weren't talked about and people laughed at these stories and and didn't really take them seriously. Um, so she was a cool mom, right, she would end up buying us beer.
Speaker 3:You know, have your friends over as long as you drink here, as long as you drink here, don't leave Right.
Speaker 4:Knock it out, and that was it.
Speaker 3:I thought that was all that happened at our house, or not our house, but you know, like in, that was very common back in the.
Speaker 2:I mean I graduated in 88. So it was just normal.
Speaker 3:That was normal. Call you, call, we'll come pick you up anywhere. Just don't drink and drive.
Speaker 4:Yeah, put your keys over there, yeah.
Speaker 3:Make them don't yeah.
Speaker 2:So all the house parties started getting busted because the parents were doing it. Now you don't hear about it happening anymore. Yeah, anyways.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but, yeah, but it was common, right, right. Yeah, it was the culture at the time, I guess it was it made them feel like better parents, because they were responsible for underage drinking. Cool parents Cool parents.
Speaker 3:Well, they thought this is their thinking. From what I could tell, they're going to do it anyway. Mm-hmm, you know, I know they're going to do it. Yeah, so at least if it's somewhat controlled in our home, we can minimize the damage. Yeah, that was the thinking. That's what my parents said.
Speaker 4:Which I get. You know what I mean. Yeah, I get the thought behind it, but yeah, my mom used to buy me condoms.
Speaker 3:I know he's going to do it anyway, and he still has them. At least protect yourself. Sorry, bonnie.
Speaker 2:You only took them off twice, yeah um, so yeah, that was basically my.
Speaker 4:My high school career was filled with partying and drinking, right I I once I got my license. Um, when I turned six.
Speaker 3:What did mom buy you? What are you driving?
Speaker 4:oh so when my, so when my stepdad passed away, we got a large lump sum. Both the kids I have a stepbrother both the kids and my mom got a large lump sum. And my mom was like you know, I'll buy you a truck right now. You know we'll have it so I can haul things around and then when you turn 16 and get your license, you can have the truck. So many trucks were all the rage back then.
Speaker 3:So I had a little Mitsubishi Mighty Max. Oh yeah, and a big old boy like you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I really need but the Mighty Max, that's the one that had the extra cab.
Speaker 4:Mine did not have the extra cab.
Speaker 2:I had one stolen.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I did too, but I had it stolen. Did I say that out loud?
Speaker 3:Hey, statute of limitations is over, you're good to go. We got the same thing, chad.
Speaker 2:Love did.
Speaker 4:I've done it. So, yeah, had that truck, you know, until I turned 16. And then I got my license and I was able to drive it right. Well, that was freedom.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was freedom and a bad idea because I I missed probably two months of the first three months of school because I was ditching. I was going, you know, anywhere, cruising you know, going to a friend other friend's house that ditch school to to drink what have you, um, and other friends house that ditch school to to drink, what have you? Um, and I was very good at forging my mom's signature, that's how. So I got away with it for so long, right, um, eventually got caught up. Right, always get caught up. And so the solution was to go on independent studies as a freshman, as a sophomore. Okay, um, so went on independent studies, um, which took very little time right of my week.
Speaker 4:So I got a job at hillmar lumber okay and you know making that for 425 an hour minimum wage was right.
Speaker 4:I was balling, but I was actually, and I was because you had a job, yeah, yeah, right, um, and I was, you know, hanging out with, with the older guys that that had low writers too, you know what I mean and they had a house and we'd go over there and party and getting beer was not a problem, right, ever was never a problem, um, and I didn't. I didn't do drugs. I didn't do drugs, well aside for dabbling with some weed. But I didn't do drugs, well aside for dabbling with some weed. But I didn't do drugs until I was out of high school. So it was all all drinking, which was bad enough at the time, right, um.
Speaker 4:So after that, I, I, um, did my independent studies, was able to come back for my my junior and senior year, did have to do some night school classes to to be able to graduate, right, but all during that time, you know, still, party, house, everything. The same um decided to skip sober grad night because it was sober grad night, right, I didn't go to disneyland, you know, rather, uh, rather, just sit home and have some beers with my buddies, um, after high school, I was pretty much, pretty much a shit bag, um, I, I couldn't hold down a, a, a steady job. Nor did I want to. I worked at a couple liquor stores around, perfect, yeah right perfect.
Speaker 2:That's so smart, ain't it? Yeah, I had a buddy who worked at save martin we it was better than a liquor store.
Speaker 4:So and it worked out good because my buddy that I was uh friends with from the eighth grade um had a good connect for the powdered accelerants yeah oh, yeah, yeah, um. And so he smoked marlboro red, so white marching powder.
Speaker 3:Whatever you want to say, we got to go.
Speaker 4:No, we're good so, um, for my portion you know of of of paying for the you know powdered accelerants was, you know, a carton of cigarettes that I'd you know five finger discounted right the liquor store at night, you know, and I helped do the inventory, so it was no big deal right off the books it was perfect you're smarter than most of us.
Speaker 4:I don't know, and that I love. That right Like that made me feel powerful. It made me feel like, you know, even though I wasn't the man that I should have been, it made me feel like I could be or that I wasn't right, definitely gave me that self-confidence going out, um, and stuff like that. So, yeah, I can. I continued on with that. Um shoot, 19, 20, 21. My mom, uh, had opened up a small business in town that I worked at also Um, and that's where it happened to meet my, my oldest daughter's mom, um, at that business, and she was a senior in high school, I believe, um, and I was 21.
Speaker 2:Um what kind of started your mom open?
Speaker 4:I was a tanning salon.
Speaker 2:Oh, really, that's about the rage. Right, it was at the time, yeah.
Speaker 4:And perfect for me to meet somebody, right, yeah right as they're coming out of the tanning booth.
Speaker 2:You need help with that towel Right Great minds baby.
Speaker 4:Just saying yeah, you're right, and it's still there to this day. She sold it off, is it really?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, mckenna had a haircutting spot right there on the corner, right across from the road dogs just down on the corner. Oh, yeah, yeah, mckenna. Mckenna, when she first started cutting hair was in there, yeah I was in denarii, uh-huh, yeah, yeah yeah, just across the railroad tracks where the where is it? Road dogs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the hardly shop. Yeah, yeah, just down from there, on the right on, just on the other side, but all the way on the corner where the weed shop is now oh, is it right across yeah, there's a weed shop there now legally.
Speaker 3:I mean, we're gonna get out of the seller shops. I don't know son of a bitch. We missed an opportunity when they're gonna legalize that right right, okay, so you meet, you meet, you meet, uh, your oldest daughter's mother I met my oldest daughter's mother.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, I was obviously an alcoholic at the time, and so we were back and forth um for a few years, um, and then I couldn't hold down a job. I remember I had a construction job and I would drive down the road from my mom's house and wait till she left and then just drive right back home, right, like I would try to forge my time cards for this company, right.
Speaker 2:Oh, you were doing everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I was doing any anything and everything to not do anything. Wow, you're working harder.
Speaker 2:You're working harder not to work hard, not to work.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of work to stay drunk and live.
Speaker 4:I just wanted to party all the time, right Like just living for the weekend, and hope to have enough money.
Speaker 3:So you never married, or did you?
Speaker 4:No, no. So this was I was probably 22 at the time, never married at the time, never married. My mom ended up giving me an ultimatum, basically saying you get a job, hold down a job, or you join the military Navy yeah, army. So I thought about it for a while. I was overweight at the time so I had to, you know, run the canal in a plastic trash bag to try to drop some weight, and meth didn't help. Jeez what kind of world. Are you getting this?
Speaker 3:from I had to slow down.
Speaker 4:You should have came. I got to, got you, and it wasn't meth at the time Crank, crank. Coke, yeah well.
Speaker 2:I switched from crank to Coke Because you started making more money.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, because I thought I was a baller Because I was forging those time cards right.
Speaker 3:So what year did you go to the?
Speaker 4:service. I was 23. It was 2001. Okay, so, yeah, went to MEPS, did all my stuff and I got to think about it. Well, you're going to pay me to get in shape, right, you gotta pay me not to drink, at least for a little bit, you know. And you're gonna give me, you know, my meals. Sure, let's do it. You know I'm down for some some um, some structure and some discipline. Sure, why not? So I did, uh, basic in south carolina um six weeks and just cold Turkey, off of everything, right. And first, I mean, days were so, so long and filled up with a bunch of stuff to do you had no time to think about it.
Speaker 2:You were tired when you got back.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, which was great.
Speaker 3:They kept you tired.
Speaker 4:Right Day one. And just going in there at 23,. Right, there's a lot of 18 year olds that go straight in there. So I was. I was one of the older ones that was in there, so, um, I don't know why a lot of them looked up to me for advice, but they did Um you were seasoned.
Speaker 3:I was not the one at 23.
Speaker 4:Um, so six weeks of basic training got out and then, um, my mom had flew out for graduation and the first stop we make because we've got a weekend pass right, the first stop we make is to the liquor store. Go get me some beer, give me some smokes, I'm good. Um, which we're directly told. You know, don't do this, don't do that. You know, while you're on your weekend pass, whatever, how are they going to know? They ain't going to know.
Speaker 2:And I'm with mom.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm with my mommy, right.
Speaker 2:She's going to take care of me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, which she always did. So after that I went to AIT in South Carolina as well.
Speaker 2:What's AIT?
Speaker 4:Advanced Individual Training. Okay, so that's where you go to learn your job, basically whatever you are.
Speaker 3:Navy is called A school, if you have an A school.
Speaker 4:And I was a light wheel vehicle mechanic, so basically a Humvee mechanic, yeah, and we get weekend passes there and a lot of kids, a lot of the soldiers would go off post and sneak cigarettes and alcohol on, which I never really did. During that time I was pretty disciplined and focused on learning my job and trying to go the straight and narrow as much as I could. And then so I was broke up with my oldest daughter's mom. At that time your daughter wasn't born yet. No, okay, no, and this was 2001. And then, while I was in AIT, I found out that her stepdad had passed away on a motorcycle accident.
Speaker 3:It was like your dad.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty wild. So I got to my permanent duty station, which was Fort Sill, oklahoma. Oh nice, not really. Yeah, I don't know. You know, yeah, no, everybody was getting handed out their permanent duty stations. Right, people were getting Japan, hawaii, Japan's nice I've been there, it out there. They're permanent duty stations right.
Speaker 3:People are getting japan, hawaii, japan's nice, I've been there, hawaii's nice, I've been there. Shut up, we don't give a fuck. The navy sent me everywhere. I loved it with your boyfriend.
Speaker 4:That's one good thing about the navy, though, right, you're in the port everywhere. Yeah, um, and they called my name and said fort seal, oklahoma, fort Sill, oklahoma.
Speaker 2:I was like shit, Might as well go back to the mayor.
Speaker 4:Right, pretty much Um, but yeah, I got there, you know, tried to make the best of it. Um, around three or four weeks of me being there, nine 11 happened and before that you could drive on and off post. There was nobody at the security stations, right, and it was complete lockdown after that, Like they had the dogs, they had the mirrors Checking underneath vehicles. It would take you forever to get off post and come back on, which was pretty much like COVID was recently right, Isolated to the barracks. You know what?
Speaker 4:I mean. So that's what we did. Those barracks days were were wild how long did this?
Speaker 3:I mean how long were you in after that? Because I mean how like this is curious when cook because I was out of the military by the time 9-11 happened how long did they have you on lockdown? How long did that go on?
Speaker 4:oh, it was a good six months okay yeah, good, six months of yeah, and not that we couldn't go off post, it would just took so long to get back on, it wasn't worth it. Right, like we would go off post um sunday mornings to pick up our uniforms that we'd drop off at the, at the cleaners, right, and we would. We would wait till till later in the day because during the day it was just, it was hectic like to try to get back on post and so we pretty much stayed in the barracks. You know, bought, bought beer at the PX, you know what I mean and and did our thing. And we had one of the soldiers was from Oklahoma city and his primary job was a drug dealer there.
Speaker 4:Right, so, he would go.
Speaker 3:Perfect, so you didn't get drug tested. Did you guys get drug tested?
Speaker 4:That's coming up.
Speaker 2:God damn it, rob. Shut up, let the man tell his story. Go ahead, fuck.
Speaker 4:So on the weekends he would go home to Oklahoma City and bring back softballs of Coke Right, nice, Nice and my best friend lived off post so he would keep it at his house so he didn't have to bring it on post. I'll figure it out yeah, and so I would go over my buddy's house. Um, he lived off post because he got married to, to one of our friends, anoki. Uh, she was a.
Speaker 4:She was a captain's daughter, I think, yeah, so nice um, so yeah, I would go over there and on a coffee table just like this one, just to you know chop it up, baby, chop it up there's a razor blade right there and just go to town.
Speaker 4:So we had some, some wild nights, uh, to say the least. Um, and then I was put on gym detail, which was great, right, like they take you out of. I got taken out of the motor pool and you're going to go, you know, wipe down, you know workout equipment for six months, which was great.
Speaker 4:I got to work out, play basketball, stuff like that, um, but, that being said, you get a little bit more lax oh yeah right, like oh well, they can't do nothing to me and for some reason, like I didn't have to go to this drug test, that there was no mandate saying if you're on gym detail, you have to go to this drug test. I just remember my roommate waking me up that morning saying, hey, we have to go piss, and I just went, you know, not thinking that two days prior you know I got fucked up, right, so went and took the piss test and like a week goes by I'm like, oh fuck, you know I should be fine, not with cocaine brother.
Speaker 4:I'm like, oh, fuck you know I should be fine Not with cocaine, brother, I'm in the clear right. So I'm at the gym one day and one of my sergeants from the motor pool comes down and says Staff Sergeant Williams wants to, wants to see you, like all right, it's like fuck. I was fuck, I was shitting, shitting bricks man, what the fuck? Um pulls me in his office. So you know what the fuck. What are you doing? You're doing drugs and denial, right oh?
Speaker 4:yeah I ain't admitting to anything. Um, denied, denied, deny. Went and seen the first sergeant denied it. Um, and then CID came into the picture. So the criminal investigation department, we find out. You're lying to us Like you could do. Time, yeah. Military time Okay, I did it, I did it.
Speaker 3:I ain't going to prison.
Speaker 4:You know, kick me out, I ain't doing it. Um, and I don't know how much of that was a bluff, you know what I mean. Like I popped hot on a drug test, like right, but at the time it scared the shit out of me like no, I ain't doing that um you would suck at getting waterboarded, just saying I would, I would, I would.
Speaker 4:I ain't denying it. Um, so yeah, they, they. They bumped me down uh pay grade. So I went through from E4 to E3, um 45 and 45. So 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty. Um, that included weekends. Like you go do your regular job you know, and then you know 46 hours more after that. Good job, and I could have stayed in um. I would have had to switch units, obviously, but I could have stayed in what do you mean?
Speaker 2:obviously, why would they make you switch units um just to break up where you're getting the drugs from? Or?
Speaker 4:that's a good question. I don't know why I said obviously, but I guess yeah I mean yeah, yeah, yeah to to break you away from the, probably the group you're hanging out with, man that yeah, they could have kicked him out right then. Right, yeah, they could have, yeah, you know um, but you know, I was a, I was a good soldier. Up until that point, um never had any problems, so and it cost a lot of money to train us.
Speaker 3:So it's they don't.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It costs a lot of money for those humvees too, but they're pieces of shit, um, and so let me backtrack a little bit, because my my um oldest mom was pregnant with with her at the time, so you had to have been home, on leave somewhere, yeah. I came home on leave, conceived my oldest daughter.
Speaker 2:Conceptually.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we had gotten back together. Right, I'm sorry I skipped that whole, trying to put the past week like I was shitting'm. I wanted to wing this whole thing, and You're talking about the podcast, right?
Speaker 2:Cause I knew about it for a little while and Mary's like what's your plan?
Speaker 4:And I'm like what do you mean? She's like do you? Do you know the timeline? Do you know what you're going to say? I'm like oh yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna wing it Right. She's like I don't think that's a good idea. So literally this past week, I'm like I just started typing and literally four pages of what came, you know, vomited out of my head. Um went out there. So it's helping me remember a little bit, but timeline still gets a little screwed up. So, um, before any of my gets a little screwed up, so, um, before any of my you know, the drug test and all that happened. Um, I came home on leave and got back together with with my oldest mom, um, and then she actually came out to to Fort seal. We went to the mall, um picked out a wedding set, so we got engaged, right. A little time had passed. I came home on leave again, got her pregnant.
Speaker 2:So you, were getting a wedding. You were planning a wedding before she got pregnant. Yes.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, all right, yeah, which I was very bad at right, like I didn't communicate a lot Um, and she broke. She broke it off with me, um, when we were just planning to get married and I didn't know she was pregnant at the time. Okay, she knew she was pregnant at the time.
Speaker 4:And in talking to to my mom, uh, kind of put it in my head Well, this could be a possibility why she's doing this and I wasn't actively helping plan the wedding or anything like that. Um, so, come to find out she was pregnant. Um, I was. I was heartbroken, I was. I had to go to mental health. Uh, while I was in the military cause, I couldn't stop crying.
Speaker 4:I had to go to mental health while I was in the military, because I couldn't stop crying Wow, I took it really hard and you know, looking back at it now, it was you still didn't know at that time that she was pregnant.
Speaker 2:No, okay, I did not.
Speaker 4:I did not. I didn't find out till later. I actually called her and asked her and it didn't change anything at the time. And it didn't change anything at the time. And then I came back home on leave again for a weekend pass. So I had my mom, I had a 68 Chevelle that I left back and I had my mom sell it for $2,500 so I could buy a plane ticket and fly back home. Fuck, are you kidding me? No, for $2,500, so I could buy a plane ticket to fly back home.
Speaker 3:Are you kidding me?
Speaker 4:No, it wasn't the first car. I had a 67 Tempest also. That was a beautiful car that I wrecked. But that's yeah, yeah, oh yeah. In hindsight boy yeah, can't do anything now, no. So yeah, I had my mom sell that car so I could buy a plane ticket to come back home and kind of try to reconcile um with with my oldest mom and it worked Like we got back together, um, and then all this stuff happened.
Speaker 4:I popped up hot on the drug tests in the military and the reason I didn't stay in is because of that. Right Like, I wanted to get back home to to see my daughter and be with her mom, um, so that's the reason why I chose chose to get out. Um, so I came back home in November of 20, uh, 2003, um, back to my, my mom's house, um, you know, seeing my, my daughter, um, on a regular. I mean, me and her mother were together at the time, but my mom had lived out in crow's landing at the time, um, yeah that's West side baby.
Speaker 4:Um. So I remember we went to the bar right Me and my mom would would go out to the bar and go party.
Speaker 2:Now she had a drinking buddy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, her drinking buddy was back and it was an older home so it had, like, the wall heaters right behind her bedroom door and we came home from the bar one night smashed and she turned that on and opened her door and she had her robe or whatever hanging back there and it just went up. It went up so quick in flames and I remember being drunk trying to put this shit out with a pitcher of water, right like and the water logical and then the water went out because it was hooked up electrically, right to the water, to the pump and
Speaker 4:there was no more water. I'm like we're fucked, like let's get out. So the whole house went up. Um, yeah, lost, lost pretty much everything Um came back came back to to nothing, basically, um, it was we were lucky to get out of the house with our lives so I was thankful for that. Um stayed in a 26 foot trailer um for the next month. Luckily, somebody at my mom's work um had a trailer, had a little bit of property, so stayed in a yeah, stayed in a trailer with my mom for for a month until she could. And you lost your clothes, your everything. Yeah, we tried to watch them. I remember being at the laundry. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4:I forget what you call that stuff, but it's supposed to get out the the burnt smell. No, it ain't coming. No, no, where's it going I?
Speaker 2:don't know, but you're a 27 foot trailer, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, um, so the landlord my mom was renting um this house from had another rental in in Turlock, so we ended up moving there. Um, I had gotten a job as a as a mechanic at the local dealership there in Turlock. Um, and kind of a prerequisite for being a mechanic back in those days, right you? Did dope, like you know what I mean like whether you're, you're, yeah right, seems normal.
Speaker 4:I thought so like a truck driver so made a good buddy there that was. That was heavily into it and I just you know we connected on that level because were you with your?
Speaker 2:were you with your girlfriend at the time? This is off and on, but your daughter's born my daughter's born.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, and I would primarily pick my daughter up, um, from her grandfather's house on on the weekends, um, every other weekend. Her mom worked nights on Fridays, um, so she stayed at her grandpa's house and I go pick her up. But, yeah, that went on for a little while, um, and then my her mom got married, um, so my daughter had a stepdad.
Speaker 3:Um how old was your daughter, oh ballpark.
Speaker 4:Three Somewhere in there. So I was still living at my mom's new rental interlock um back and forth on jobs Like they. Let me go from the from the dealership Missing work, huh.
Speaker 2:Missing work.
Speaker 4:Missing work.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:Um, and my, my buddy the one that was in it with me tried to cover for me. It didn't work. Um, I remember reapplying for there, um, and popping hot on a drug test and the service manager was like what is wrong with you?
Speaker 3:Wait six months Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I think that's why I like going through um checkpoints now right yeah, it's like look at me yeah, no shit, right, I ain't got shit on me. No um, please pull me over, yeah yeah, um, where was I going?
Speaker 4:looking stepdad, stepdad yes, um, so my, my daughter had a stepdad. Now um, her mom got married. I was not providing insurance um for my daughter and she she needed insurance on her. So I remember my um, my ex um, calling me up and asking if I would be willing to have her stepdad adopt her.
Speaker 4:Saw that one coming For insurance purposes and me being, you know, not thinking, clearly, not saying, oh well, you know, no matter what, I'll put her on my insurance, you know, I don't care. I took it as she was attacking me and threatening me. So I basically told her well, maybe, if that's the route you want to go, maybe my daughter's I'm better off staying out of her life, and that I tried to uh, I tried to remember exactly how it went down. I can't, but I specifically remember saying those words. So after that I didn't really see my daughter at all. I didn't really see my daughter at all, and I remember being there for her, her kindergarten graduation. That was the last time I really remember seeing her and I was sober.
Speaker 4:So she's about six, six, yeah, um, and I have a picture that I look at that reminds me, and you know, I would talk to her mom, um, every now and again and ask to speak with my daughter, and she didn't want to. She don't want to speak me. She told her mom that she could send me pictures to see her, but she didn't want to speak with me At that young age.
Speaker 2:She she saying that already. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I wouldn't be told till just recently that you know. I found out how mature she is now I can imagine she was. She was a pretty smart kid, right.
Speaker 2:Can we take a break? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely Hi back from break. Here we go all right.
Speaker 4:So, um, yeah, I'd see my daughter graduate um kindergarten. Um after that I was. I was pretty much non-existent in her life. Um, I took some comfort in knowing that she had a great mom and a stepfather Now let me ask you a question.
Speaker 3:That's because when we people like us, you know when we start to justify, rationalize and minimize, you know we're lying to ourselves. You know you can't replace dad.
Speaker 4:No, you can't. But but.
Speaker 3:But I get. But I get your point.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, no, in my addiction. Like I was thankful that she had some kind of stability right, like I couldn't give it to her, so I'm glad she was able to get it, you know, with her mom.
Speaker 3:Couldn't, they Couldn't give it to her or wouldn't give it to her.
Speaker 4:I wouldn't. Obviously, the choices that I make, the horrible choices that I made, were the reason why I felt like I couldn't give it to her the questions we were asking off camera yeah go.
Speaker 3:I don't want to interrupt his story as long as it's all a part of this story but I was telling, having sponsored you know how many, how many men over the years, and lots of men and a few women. I told him what the child is thinking, you know, when she didn't want to have speak to her father. This is just what they have told me. You know. They feel rejection, abandonment, and it's kind of it's her only power, that she has to get back at you. But she wants dad.
Speaker 3:You can't replace a daughter and a father. You know that, that relationship. But because there's certain times when the daughter needs a father and then then then kind of gravitates to the mother as they get older, like the son and the, the mother, yeah, but rejected, abandonment, and she's wondering what did I do to push my father away? Is there something I did? Yeah, that's what's going through her mind at that time. So the only power she has, no, I don't want to speak to him because I'm gonna get back at him and see I, I blamed her mom um for that right, of course, yeah, you're keeping her from me, all right, not thinking that you know my daughter huge resentment think for herself.
Speaker 4:You know, even at that age you know not to not could think for herself. You know, even at that age. You know not to not to want to see me Um got one more question, there's another.
Speaker 3:there's three men I'm thinking of that that were in your exact situation. One thing they regretted as they got, got sober and worked their steps Now the their blood is carrying someone else's name. That that was.
Speaker 2:I've never heard it put that way yeah, well, that they.
Speaker 3:Well, that's how they put it powerful yeah, you know the decisions we make, right, you know that you can't undo no so go ahead um, so yeah, so what was I okay? She was about six.
Speaker 4:Yeah, after graduation you didn't really see her yeah, didn't really see her um and I I I was bouncing at a bar interlock um finally using your size. I appreciate that right, just just you know, stop working at the liquor store as a mechanic. Actually, I got laid off because I moved from a dealership interlock to a dealership in Newman at the time that our service manager went there, so I was working over there. Times were bad. I think Obama was in office.
Speaker 3:Times were definitely bad. Well, they were bad for me, right.
Speaker 4:Right. So the dealership you know mechanic industry really took a hit on it. So I got laid off um somehow used my EDD and and went to school for a certificate program um in web and graphic design.
Speaker 3:Good thinking.
Speaker 4:Wow, Um, yeah, yeah, I managed up, you know to, to get some kind of, you know, discipline and structure Um out of that um, still living with my mom working at the, at the bar, being a bouncer at night on the weekends, you know, quick, easy money. Um, that's how I met my, my next girlfriend, Um, she was there one night and needed a ride home and I was closing up, so you know, to the rescue, yeah, to the rescue, right, um, probably the most toxic relationship that I that I had had.
Speaker 4:Um, that's saying something, yeah, yeah. And she and she was a, she was a little Mexican, right, um, coming from that culture. And one good thing she did get me out of my mom's house. So, moving out of my mom's house for this first time at 33 years old, outside of the military, right, um, what a fucking loser. Um, that's saying it out loud, I'm saying it out loud. We moved to Modesto actually the same house that I ended up buying, that we own now. We moved there when it was a rental. Yeah, I got a job at a place over off of Graphics Drive in Modesto, using your education, yes, yes, um, trying to build up to that. Um, I was a, I was a dye maker, so we, uh, you know, did a lot of dyes for, for psc and and and those type of companies. So, yeah, I worked from one in the afternoon until 1 in the morning. I did not have a vehicle at the time because I wrecked my Tahoe right, Drunk, obviously, no DUI.
Speaker 2:No DUI, thank God.
Speaker 4:I never had a DUI right. I thank the Lord every day that I did not have a DUI and never went to prison.
Speaker 4:So when I was in the military, to backtrack a little bit. So when I was in the military, backtrack a little bit, I did, um, I had a buddy in the barracks who had a vehicle, who would um, get deployed every now and then and leave me his vehicle, said do not, do not take it out of state. What's the first thing I did? I met. I met some, some chick, you know, the couple weeks prior because he lived, uh, his father lived, in amarillo. So yeah, first thing I did was fucking buy a 12 pack and hop in that fucking truck and off I went right. Um, what state did you go? To texas?
Speaker 3:texas yeah, yeah don't you fucking listen hey, just because he said texas doesn't mean that's where he went I only knew because texas is close yeah, I was headed there.
Speaker 4:I made it into texas, um, I just remember driving I was drinking, driving, of course, um, and they were doing road construction and they had the yellow cones, um all on one side of the road and I was just convenient. Bam, bam, bam, bam, oh shit, bam, bam, bam, oh shit. Um, thinking it's mario brother yeah, apparently it knocked out one of the headlights headlights so I had stopped at a gas station about halfway in my trip to get some beef jerky no headlight no headlight, did not know it.
Speaker 4:Well, the clerk at the convenience store had called the cops on me because she could smell the alcohol. Bitch, how fucking Karen, how you, yeah. Um. So about five miles down the road I get pulled over um, but it was more than the smell oh, I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure I was slurring my words and stumbling everywhere but you're a soldier, yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, um, and this was on a friday night, right?
Speaker 4:so, um, yeah, I get pulled over. They find the you know a couple beers left in the 12 pack. Um, take drinks low I do. They take me to armstrong county jail. Um, thank god it was full. Um, they could not take me there, so they took me back to where the clerk had called the cops and this was in Claude, texas, great great town, right, sounds like it. Yeah, claude, claude, texas. So they take me to the local jail there and you know, I thank God every day they didn't take me to Armstrong County Jail, because it was a lot. They walked me in I could see. You know what it looked like. Like Claude County Jail was more like, you know, deputy Dewey, you know what I mean. Was Otis there.
Speaker 4:They had one other, you know, prisoner there that they let me make a sandwich for for lunch the next day. Let me wash the cop car for cigarettes. I'm like this is, this is all right. If I had to run this prison, this jail, I think I could um. So yeah, and but getting back, right, like I had to be at pt um at 6 am monday morning, right, and I was not going to be arraigned until monday, you know, whenever the judge came in um and they let me go, like because you're the service, I said hey, I gotta be back at this time.
Speaker 3:I took a bus oh man, what'd you do with your buddy's pickup, impounded I got impounded.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I had to let him know when I got back um that'd be fun at least it was close, you know, to amarillo, so you know he was going that way anyway. Um, yeah, it was. It was horrible. I had to take a bus back. I made it back about four in the morning. Um, monday morning went to the px, bought a fucking beer yeah, level out, baby, down that beer before I went to pt. Uh, I remember standing in line of pt and my motor sergeant just fucking looks at me and shakes his fucking head. He's like. He's like what the fuck are you doing? I'm here for pt. He's like what the fuck are you doing? I'm here for PT. So I'll come, come with me. Took me to the motor pool and, yeah, um had the, the soldier that I took his truck there, um, and I really didn't get in trouble. Like I got in trouble internally, you know no consequences, no consequences, so uh got off the hook for that one, I don't know how, um you know, no consequences.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no consequences. So uh, got off the hook for that one. I don't know how, um you know, the lord watching me knew he had bigger and better plans for me. I guess, um, all right, kind of got sidetracked with that backtracking it's all right, um, good story. Yeah, I thought so, you were, you were gonna grab it, one of those. It's one of those ones that you know after I left that I would have um. Yeah, we're working um over at container graphics Um 1. Pm to one 1.
Speaker 3:AM to 1. Pm. You said one to one.
Speaker 4:Yeah, one to one, uh, 12 hour shifts. I didn't have a vehicle because I had wrecked it right, um, and so I was riding a bike to where. It was about seven miles, you know yeah through modesto. Um, you know, now looking back, you know if you don't, if you ride a bike for anything other than exercise, it's kind of, especially at 33 years old.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've made some bad life. You've made some bad life choices.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah but at the time, you know know, this is perfect, I'm getting exercise, no, so I would ride my bike. Every day In the morning, though, I'd wake up and ride my bike to the liquor store and get a three-pack of tall cans. You know I had to level out, because you weren't learning your lesson from riding that bike.
Speaker 4:No, no, it was a good thing. Know the feeling, um. And then obviously you know all the all the beer and um that I drank after work. But I would have to wait. I would have to call and hope somebody was up at the house to give me a ride home at 1 am right right otherwise I was riding my bike home at 1 am in Modesto like um yeah, that wasn't fun.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, convinced my girlfriend at the time to use her income tax money to fix my vehicle and and get it out of the shop. Um, so then I had wheels again, which was great, dangerous, but great, dangerous, but great Right, and it was like it was fixed to be drivable, right. Both airbags were fucking blown Like I was taped them up.
Speaker 3:Fuck it you know what I mean? I can't afford fucking. I ain't ride that bike. No, fucking more. Tape them up, let's go.
Speaker 4:And she remembers that vehicle.
Speaker 2:I had it when, when we met who's she? Oh, my wife mary hi mary.
Speaker 5:Oh shit, sorry say it again that vehicle lived a very short fucking life welcome in mary.
Speaker 2:She comes in with the fuck right off the get-go.
Speaker 4:I love her already uh, the AC did not work in that thing, Like my AC was 465, right.
Speaker 3:Windows down All four windows down driver 65.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I convinced her to use her income tax money to get that fixed.
Speaker 3:This was little Hispanic, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes, and you know, I was heavily drinking during that time and I remember.
Speaker 3:Any powdery cylinders? Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:She had family members that would help out with that. You know some that had been in prison, some had been in and out of the system.
Speaker 3:Good stuff, find that balance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the balance, just enough.
Speaker 4:And that might have been why I stuck with her so long right the benefits Come. That might've been why I stuck with her so long right the benefits, um. But, um, she finally got, so I left that job. I got a a pretty damn good, decent job. Um, I'm still with the company today. So I started up pretty much at the bottom as an operator, um, with this company and, um, we're working 12 hour days and I was loving it, like you know.
Speaker 4:Give me that give me that money right, great money money um you got energy, not that yeah and yeah, there were some scares too. They're like three weeks in.
Speaker 4:I had had a forklift incident oh sure, and luckily I did not do enough powdered accelerant the weekend before for it to pop hot on me, because that would have been my my third drug test that I popped on. I was, yeah, somebody's looking out for me, um, but yeah, so I I stayed with her, like I said, maybe because you know, I was getting the benefits from her family and I paid for a lot, like I was making a lot of money, but her, being old school, traditional, like I had to pay for the rent I had to pay for, you know, and she had two kids that lived with us and I remember when her son graduated, they had a party in the garage, right, um, and the next morning they left all their liquor out and all their booze out, right, and party I drank.
Speaker 4:I drank it and then filled the bottle up with water, thinking that who? The fuck were you hiding it from? Her son, her son, oh um, and he called me out on my bullshit and I, I denied, denied, denying, and he didn't believe me, which he shouldn't have no, he knows better yeah, um, yeah, and it's just yeah. That was a common occurrence too, for is even when I was younger, like I don't know if you guys remember the, the baseball bat bottles uh the.
Speaker 3:Coors and Coors Light ones. Yep, yeah, I was a whiskey drinker, but I still remember those. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, those were, you know, mantle decorations in in my mom's house growing up Right, yeah, unopened, and I tried to drink one of those things like five or six years after, after they put right.
Speaker 2:Oh god, that was horrible, oh yeah, um, yeah, uh, she was finally fed up. Yeah, katie's here. Let's just take another quick break, guys, then we'll get to it this. I've been waiting for her you're good, because uh, yeah, yeah, where were we at?
Speaker 4:we were at uh gay bar, what the fuck oh, your hometown, the rainbow.
Speaker 3:We'll get there perfect uh, we were at my, my ex little oh yeah yeah, mexican girlfriend um well, he almost popped, you know, you almost popped on your third, you almost popped but you did it. God give the glory, and then we're here. So yeah how old are you at this age? Where are you at right now?
Speaker 4:this was 2000, you got a good job. You're still with that company today, so yeah 2013 is when I got hired there um, so that would put me at 30 but yeah, that's good 34, 35, 34, 35 somewhere in there right, finally getting my life together but yeah, well, well, yeah, pieces, I mean, let's be honest there's a piece of place but you're still doing dope and you're still drinking, so not all the pieces are in place.
Speaker 3:Definitely 34, 35 years old. Yeah, how old were you when your daughter was born?
Speaker 4:Your oldest, I was 25, I think I joined the Army in 2001. I was 23. She was born in 2003, so I was 25, yeah so this is 10 years now yeah you know, 10 years. 10 years passed and I remember my like I guess she wasn't all bad, she, she would reach out.
Speaker 3:She had reached out to my daughter's mom the hispanic, your hispanic girlfriend, because they're big on family yeah, advocating for me and my daughter's mom, the Hispanic, your Hispanic girlfriend.
Speaker 4:Well, cause they're big on family.
Speaker 3:Yeah, advocating for me and my daughter's mom was like like I really appreciate this, but I'm not hearing it from from Sean Right.
Speaker 4:She's right. Right, she's got it right A hundred percent. Why would I have, you know, why would I trust that if I was her mother? Um, yeah, yeah, in hindsight now it's stupid, but um, so I guess she wasn't. She wasn't all bad, but, like you said, you know the family and and the culture. Um, so yeah, food I wish I never got a homemade tortilla not once not once yeah should have ran right but the dope was coming.
Speaker 4:Um so like 2014,. She was pretty much done with you. Right up with my shit. Yeah, and I could care less. Like I wanted my freedom, I wanted her out of the house. I just wanted to make my own decisions and be my own man, cause that's always worked out so good in the past, right? Um, so she, finally, she got her stuff and moved out. Um, and I think she was expecting some type of reaction out of me and I didn't give it to her. Um, so, yeah, that pissed her off even more.
Speaker 3:It validated her decision. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Pissed off a latina that ain't good, she was batshit crazy, yeah well, she laid hands on me. So oh, wow, yeah, yeah, wow right into people, just wild, wild shit that's who we pick, usually when we're in that space.
Speaker 4:Yeah and I'm a lover. I'm not a fighter.
Speaker 4:I've never laid a hand on a woman at all, so even in my you know addiction, but um, but yeah, she was fed up, so she I tried to get. I remember I tried to get the day off of work the day she was moving out, cause I knew she was going to take everything. And sure enough, um, somebody else in my department had the day off, um, so I could not get it off. And I was like, oh, I know she's stripping the house right now as I'm at work, and sure enough she'd she had taken everything, um, which you know, it was what it was.
Speaker 4:Looking back now, these you know old ass TVs and old couch, don't make you know right, right, um and a bed and stuff like that, and I had some friends that it'll probably be better that you'd not be there because of what could have taken place, you know. So, yeah, yeah, god, god looked out for you again, right um, and I hadn't been like, I hadn't had a steady drug habit, but here and there, right um, it's never too late. But now, god damn it, rob. Now it was fucking on, right like I had. Now it's on. Now it's on. Now it's on. I had a good job, good paying job. I had a vehicle.
Speaker 2:Don't drug test.
Speaker 4:Freedom. I had my own house.
Speaker 2:Oh, come on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's go. And I remember specifically I had hit up one of my now exes family members because I knew he dealt, and I remember specifically asking him hey, do you have any white lady? And at the time he said no, I'm all out, but I have the other, yeah. Yeah. Maybe I was like fuck it, all right, let's do it. And that sent me on a path. The meth, the meth Fuck, yeah, fucking.
Speaker 2:Rob, that's the other.
Speaker 3:That's the other buddy.
Speaker 4:And I remember, because Mary was reading it, because we were going over this, what I've written down. She's like what does this mean? Like what is this what?
Speaker 5:is the other. I'm like that's wild Methamphetamines.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:This comes from a girl who's never smoked a joint.
Speaker 4:Right, it's come from a girl who's never smoked a joint.
Speaker 5:Right. Yeah nothing, no, he's done this and that's a nerve. I'm like what the fuck is going on.
Speaker 3:Who even wants that?
Speaker 4:So yeah, just partying all the time and I didn't put it out there, like I didn't do it with a lot of people.
Speaker 3:But this is coming to the end, though, for you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah yeah, it happened quick within the last hurrah within a year, Like I was yeah, it was burning the candle. Yeah, oh, definitely Um sleepless nights, you know.
Speaker 3:Okay, I got to ask questions I was talking about this with. I was up with over the weekend, me and my wife went with Jason and Kim. We're talking about this going over all, cause we have the same history, you mean. I mean, if you can't, how much of his story do you hear in mine? You know, oh, a lot, oh, for sure, the military, all that stuff. So this I'm we're going off tangent here. When you were after a couple of days, what would you see? I used to see alligators crossing the road. When, I would you know, after a couple sleepless days I would.
Speaker 4:I would hear helicopters like they're flying over my house right now, like you couldn't tell me they weren't the ghetto birds out there, and it's. They're coming for me. They know, they can see what the hell I'm doing yeah, they're a lot more watching rooftops and everything yeah, I'm glad I never I'm paranoid enough everybody's got this. I appreciate that that was mine. Yeah, um, yeah, just just full force man on a weekly basis. I was, you know, getting one to two teeners a week.
Speaker 3:Um, they're making it to work.
Speaker 4:Yeah, making it to work you know, even came up with a side hustle. So I used my, my graphic design um printing out templates, uh, doing rustic, rustic wood art, you know, california flag, usa flag, stuff like that and I would tweak on that shit and fucking and bust some shit out. And I started wholesaling to a local, uh, local store in Turlock. Um, so they give me, you know, obviously not what, what it's worth, but it's getting my you know my product out there and giving me some money in my pocket, right, which which I needed more of, cause I needed more dope to the vicious circle.
Speaker 4:I don't know why I did it, um, so I did that for cause we're insane, yeah, yeah, it's insanity, yeah, um, I did that for a little while and, and I remember the night that I'd probably been up for two days already and I was scrolling on my phone and on Facebook and you know, sometimes you'll come across the stories on Facebook like a post or whatever Um, and I remember scrolling and it was a letter that I had written I'm hallucinating, right Um, it was a letter that I had written um telling all my friends how much I take advantage of them and and never really loved anybody, and it was written from a place of pride. It wasn't from a place of pouring my heart out for forgiveness. It was prideful.
Speaker 2:Wow, you fools, you're hallucinating all this, I am, I am. Wow, you fools, you're hallucinating.
Speaker 4:I am, I am and I remember scrolling more and getting subliminal messages. You know that would say different things, like I consider myself an artist, right, like making these things, and things would just pop up. That would downplay you know what I thought of myself and I was like what the fuck, what the fuck's going on. You know, like where is this?
Speaker 4:Where indeed, yeah I'm, I'm hallucinating Like this is scaring me. I immediately took what I had and flushed it down the toilet. That's how I'm done. Took what I had and flushed it down the toilet, that's how I'm done. I'm done. Doing dope, um, because my drinking at that time, because you know, doing dope, like I'll set this can over here, full beer, right, go fucking tweak out on something. Forget about it. Go open another one, take a sip, set that one there. So the garage was just full of fucking full beers. So my drinking, yeah, it was there, but this was more present.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I say, it took second nature, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And we thought that that was our problem. Yeah, the dope's the problem, the beers are. You know, the alcohol is never a problem. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:That was my thought process.
Speaker 3:You're telling my story.
Speaker 4:kid, I love it so, after I quit and I was, and that was it. I was, you know, dead set, Like I did not touch it, but I started fucking drinking heavily. I had to replace it, yeah.
Speaker 2:But, you don't realize it.
Speaker 3:No, you don't realize it, what you've just done, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just beer.
Speaker 3:Come on, realize it, but you don't realize it that you do what you've just done.
Speaker 4:Yeah, just beer. Um, come on, unless I was going out like I would, I would make jaeger bombs a drink, you know, it's like right, um, get there faster. Yeah, little little shots. And you know, drink some coke out of the bottle pour the shot in there if I was going somewhere. Um, but primarily beer, um, and I, I like beer, I like the taste of beer, right even now so did I.
Speaker 3:I'll buy. I was a beer drinker, he's a beer lover, yeah I'll buy hops water, okay, um you know which is what's that? What's that? What's that?
Speaker 4:just non-alcohol okay, yeah, I mean zero, zero, like there's nothing. Nothing I got you. Yeah, it just tastes like hoppy water. Yeah, because I like the taste of it right. So I would drink IPAs, a lot of IPAs. So they were, you know 6.5. Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I'd black out all the time, and this was probably the beginning of April of 2015 that I started drinking heavily. And one weekend after so I went to my neighbor was a lesbian, right, and Mary's good friend is a gay man, and I wanted to go out because I felt depressed and isolated. And because you were yeah, I was yeah. So I I hit up my neighbor. They were going to go out, um, today, uh, her and her girlfriend, yeah, fucking wrong sorry go ahead.
Speaker 4:One was butch, okay, um, so they were going out to the tiki all right, did you?
Speaker 3:know? Huh, did you know the tiki lounge? Yeah, but I didn't know it was a gay bar the tiki lounge yeah well, yes, not when I was back then, but that was you know yeah, it wasn't turned that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it turned that way, but close to the end of it.
Speaker 4:I'm talking about 20 30, 30 years ago, 30 years ago, yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't always a game changer, well.
Speaker 2:Tiki Lounge has been gone for 20.
Speaker 4:Has it.
Speaker 2:No, no, they just shut down this year.
Speaker 5:Yeah, July 1st, it just shut down Really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the one on McHenry. Yeah, get me the times. Okay, so you're gonna do anything but there you go.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, six four, good looking guy nice beard right, they call it.
Speaker 4:They call it bears, I think, is what the term is. Um, they call it bears. You know the big burly guys yeah, sweet what do they call the little jack sweet?
Speaker 4:I love it, and so Mary was there and her friend came over to me and Listen to this, Larry. Said my friend likes your beard, can she touch it? Sure, what a pickup line, and so she came over and stro stroked my beard, yeah yeah, come on, but at that point in time you couldn't tell me shit so were you three sheets or were you just?
Speaker 5:no, I never really drank like that.
Speaker 3:That wasn't really a big thing for me. We just met, yeah, but that just, and you told me a little bit of your background, that doesn't seem like your personality.
Speaker 5:Just to go stroke a strange man's beard yeah, it really was, it really wasn't, I don't know. I just felt this weird, like connection almost well, he has a beautiful beard.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting here admiring his damn beard well that like he's handsome as shit like a little bit more gray now yeah
Speaker 5:it was a little more brown time.
Speaker 3:But that still doesn't seem like you.
Speaker 5:No, and it wasn't, but I don't know. There was just.
Speaker 2:Immediate attraction.
Speaker 5:Literally.
Speaker 2:Immediate yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, we met here we are 10 years later, yeah.
Speaker 5:No, he was like let me buy you a drink. Let me buy you a drink.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah whatever and then he was like no, I really want to, I'm like okay. And then he came back and he handed me a beer and he was like I went over and asked him can you tell us at this, you know, at this time 10 years ago, what were you doing? You, can you say that?
Speaker 5:yeah, I worked in um law enforcement. I at that time I was booking inmates, male inmates specifically so I was already like, yeah, she had to get the fuck away from me, kind of towards man Cause it was just such a. I mean I was running into the downtown jail, yeah.
Speaker 3:So that's. That's why I got into the dichotomy. Can I go stroke? Here's a big handsome man. Yeah, I'm dealing with these.
Speaker 2:She's got pretty much a good judge character, but yet you know, that's just crazy how god works. Anyway, I like these.
Speaker 3:I was trying to figure out where the fuck he was going with that. You were gone.
Speaker 5:I'm finding this shit out yeah, and he, uh, he was like he's like, oh, what was it? He's like just keep talking, just keep talking she's got a beautiful voice like you told me to keep talking. That's what you get for the rest of your life bud, I kind of yeah.
Speaker 3:But you need, we need because you're telling we need strong women. Yeah, and we're attracted to strong women because they, you know they'll co-sign. Hopefully they don't co-sign our bullshit, yeah.
Speaker 5:I didn't.
Speaker 3:And I was a lot.
Speaker 5:I had a lot more energy for a child, so I was a lot more spit, fiery, but yeah, don't do that, dude. He um, we were leaving and he's like, following me out and he kissed me on the cheek and one of the girls that we were with actually hit him like you don't fucking hit kiss women, why didn't? I was just like whatever, he's drunk, not a big deal. And I'm walking out and he's like, hey, can I have your number? And I turn absolutely the fuck not.
Speaker 2:Bitch, you just touched my beard. I don't know you.
Speaker 5:And I was like you can remember my name on Facebook tomorrow because Facebook was a lot more popular back then Right. I was like. You can remember my name on Facebook, then we'll see you must have I did.
Speaker 4:I did yeah.
Speaker 3:So okay, now let's get your version. So what were you thinking you, okay, Go ahead and touch my beard, but what was it?
Speaker 4:Oh, I'm taking her home. I'm taking her home that night, right. Oh, that was your thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Nope.
Speaker 4:No, she was gorgeous.
Speaker 3:But again, women like don't say was. Women like to be pursued and men like to pursue.
Speaker 2:So it was perfect. Yeah, yeah, hunter, and the no, she was a.
Speaker 4:She was a spicy, little thing, I could tell we're going on fucking dating game here now no, but this is good.
Speaker 3:This is a startup.
Speaker 2:I know it is about ready to quit drinking no, no, I, I know this is coming, the dope stopped because of well, I know what the dope stops, I've been there, so that's perfect.
Speaker 3:So now, but you're hot and heavy yeah, yeah, you remembered her name.
Speaker 4:I did remember her name In a gay bar, at the gay bar, the gay tic-tac. This was May 30th 2015.
Speaker 3:So you're five days away.
Speaker 4:I'm five days away, mercy. A lot happens in that five days. Talk to me, I want to hear this. I remember we were trying to figure out this timeline yesterday. I remember talking to her one time on the phone and it must. It must've been that Sunday.
Speaker 5:No, it was on phone, it was like Facebook messenger.
Speaker 4:Was it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I didn't give me my number.
Speaker 4:So it was on Sunday. That Sunday was my rock bottom, like I. I woke up the next day and I was like my moment of clarity, like what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2:All by yourself too.
Speaker 4:All by myself. Wow, what would you say I had?
Speaker 2:the first time I've heard that.
Speaker 4:I told myself I had to stop blaming everybody else for my problems.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, you just gave me chills.
Speaker 4:Ownership, take responsibility for my actions. And you just gave me chills. Ownership, take responsibility for my actions. And it wasn't until later, sunday, that everything came together. I believe I'd called my oldest mom at the time and blamed her for keeping my daughter away from me, and I had reached out to a buddy asking for a gun and he was like, absolutely fucking, not like you know, smart friend, go fuck yourself. Um, yes, I thank him to this day.
Speaker 4:And another person told me, like the only way you're going to get into rehab, you need to take care of yourself. The only way you're going to get in is if you're suicidal. I go, yeah, okay, I just asked for a fucking gun, yeah. So I called my mom. My mom came out, I told her what was going on. I'm like I want to get into rehab, like I'm done, like, but apparently the only way I can get in is is by being suicidal. So I I'm trying to remember. I don't remember if my mom drove me to the hospital or if the ambulance came and got me. I think my mom drove me.
Speaker 3:Which hospital.
Speaker 4:Doctors Okay.
Speaker 3:You get there.
Speaker 4:Get there, explain the situation. They take me in. They draw my blood Sitting there. What was a couple episodes ago? What was his name? Paul when he said that the healthcare system is so screwed up around mental health that just that solidified it really is. I sat there for a few hours. They had the ambulance drive me to DBHC, put me in a fucking padded room with a blanket overnight and the next morning around 6 am they released me fuck damn yeah and luckily I live fairly close to where they released me and I was able to walk home.
Speaker 4:But I'm like what? So what do I do now? They? They had no information for me, nothing, just let me go. So I called my HR of my work and I was like this is what's going on, this is what I need. Can you help me? Can you help me? And yeah, she was great. I miss her. She was ourris um person at the time and she's all giving it. Give me an hour or so and I'll give you a call back. She's all called the call-in hotline for work and call and say today I'm like okay, uh, she called me back and said these are the places your insurance will partially cover, and one I believe was Maynard's, and the deductible for that was outrageous. There's no way I could come up with it. And so the ghetto alternative was Changing Echoes in Angels Camp, yeah, and it was ghetto, so the ghetto alternative was changing echoes.
Speaker 4:uh, in angels camp, um, and it was. It was $500 deposit Um but it's something that deposit and I had no money and I was, I was not going to ask my mom to cover it Right. So, uh, I hit up the local shop that I sold these signs to. I'm like, would you buy? Would you buy for these signs? You know if I could have them to you by this date? I said, yeah, no problem. So I sold four signs at one, 25 aiece to pay to get into Regattas. Mm-hmm Good.
Speaker 4:Lord. So I called them. They couldn't get me in until that Thursday, so I had four days to figure out what to do. So I busted my ass and made those and had my mom right there the whole time watching me, spent the night at my mom's house that whole week, just uh, I didn't quit drinking.
Speaker 3:you couldn't I had my.
Speaker 4:You really couldn't had my talk hands and that's that's why I remember from from larry's when they told you don't, don't quit, don't quit.
Speaker 4:Um, they did not tell me that, I just uh you couldn't do it yeah yeah, yeah, I couldn't have and I remember, I remember my last talk in, uh, the night before I left, you know, and I had my bags back and my mom, um, took me up there and, you know, did the in processing and stuff, and um, at that time I was like I'm not here for drinking, like I'm here for drugs that was, that was my problem right, yeah, even though I had quit a month before coming there justify, rationalize, minimize I'm like I'm gonna get out, you know, drink like a gentleman, I'll be just fine.
Speaker 4:My hat's off to you right um during my time there um. But you didn't apparently. I did not, no, no, during my time there, I experienced a lot. There was one kid there that was detoxing off heroin Maybe not heroin, but opiates Same thing, and he was just huddled up in the corner just shivering shivering, shivering, shivering Jimmy legs.
Speaker 4:They were feeding him candy. You know, um, I was like what the fuck? This guy's got a problem? I don't, I don't, you got to check this guy out over here, right? Um, but just the, the stories that you hear in there, and I'd never opened up to a group of group of men before, um, before going there, and that, just to be totally honest with them and not not trying to build myself up for any reason Um, it was it life-changing for sure, um, and I remember they want to be to be house manager or whatever they called it at the time, and, uh, the, uh, the cook shot it down because he wanted me in the kitchen. I was like motherfucker, dude, I don't want to kill these fucking people. Um, and you know, that place definitely increased my nicotine and caffeine intake, for damn sure. That's all there was, right, um, but you know, going to those meetings and and and talking not just with the counselors but with the, the people that were there, right, like it, those stories.
Speaker 3:Do you now how many people that you were in there with do you? Did you talk to any of them now?
Speaker 4:no, no, I did um, exactly, yeah my point exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because they don't make it no, and they're rare yeah, and a lot of them aren't they're not yeah, like the the opiate kid, like he drinks but he doesn't do opiates.
Speaker 4:I'm like teach sarah like I'm not here to judge. You know what I mean at all. Um, if you can live and he looks like he's doing fine, we're friends on facebook. He looks like he's thriving, so good for you. Um, but yeah me going in there thinking that dope is your.
Speaker 4:I was just there for dope and I could walk out of there and have a drink. Um was quickly, quickly diminished. Yeah, it was after being there a couple of weeks. Um, and my counselor was great. Um, yeah, after being there a couple of weeks and just hearing everything, all the stories and reflecting back on me, I was like oh shit. That's me. Oh, you have a drinking problem.
Speaker 3:Similarities Similarities, not the differences.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, by the, by the time I got out, I was. I was never going to drink again Like I. I knew it.
Speaker 2:Like, like would you say your obsession was lifted, going back or thinking about that?
Speaker 2:as far as the obsession for alcohol. Yeah, the obsession for alcohol. You know not the thought I mean to be. Well, what I mean by that is like we can be. I can be around it. Let me rephrase it I can be around it all day long because I have zero. You know, rob says that. I say it. I don't think about drinking any more than I do breathing right, because that obsession's gone yeah, so and page 64 tells me that alcohol wasn't my problem.
Speaker 3:Anyway, right, I was the problem.
Speaker 4:Yeah liquor was just a symptom but yes, it, I believe it got lifted and there's. I was telling mary there's a few things that I really took away from inpatient rehab is the three-headed dragon and, from a sobriety standpoint, there's many different interpretations of the three-headed dragon. Give me yours. Mine that I use currently is physical, psychological and spiritual. If I keep those three heads on and they're all in alignment, my life is beautiful, right? How often are all three in alignment?
Speaker 4:It's work maybe yes, yes, but I remember in rehab it was thinking and feeling right and you're chopping off those heads um of the dragon, which kind of say that again, drinking, drinking thinking and feeling okay um. So that really resonated with me at the time. I was like, okay, not that I've perfected all those things, but I've managed all those things. So what does the three-headed dragon mean to me now? And and that's the, that's the physical, psychological and spiritual, those are the, those three things. You keep those at a, at a good, steady balance.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 4:You should be in harmony right, I feel.
Speaker 2:I just got to get the physical.
Speaker 4:Me too, I've been lacking that.
Speaker 2:Spiritual is most important right.
Speaker 3:It is spiritually fit, thank god because it keeps me mental, yeah, without that right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I wish the mirror would say the same thing, but it doesn't. And the skill yeah.
Speaker 3:And the scale from it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have not only been mentally and physically ill, we've been spiritually sick. But when the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically. Spirituality is always first, yeah, never last, never second. Once that's, then the other two will fall in line, or you have a chance for the other two to fall in line. You'll get there, baby.
Speaker 2:So you get out of rehab.
Speaker 3:Oh, the other thing that I took away was the, the sleeping tiger. Yeah, he's, that's where he's at. Yeah, yeah, he's growing, he's doing, he's doing push-ups right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, our tiger is doing push-ups and we had a conversation me and mary had a conversation about that and she's like really, I don't think that it would be like that initially like the first day drinking or whatever. But I think eventually, like with a quickness, it would. It would definitely.
Speaker 2:So you understand that yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, oh, I've seen it, we've seen it. Yeah yeah, you spend a few.
Speaker 2:spend a few, a little while in the rooms. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, well, it's been a sponsor. If you man, you'll see it. Yeah, a lot of us die out there because that tiger wakes up. Yeah, the first couple of times, maybe the first day or two, yeah, you know, maybe a week, a month or two, yeah, but it's progressive. You eventually become right where you were. Worse, yeah, and I know where I ended up was about where you ended up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. You know so yeah, and at this point I got 10 years. Man, I got too much fucking time invested and this is the most time I have had invested in anything besides our marriage. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:That's about the same time. I mean you close. She went. If you were that man she wouldn't be here for 28 days after he had.
Speaker 5:So I did. You wonder what the fuck? Well, he ghosted me, you son of a bitch, like yeah, I was dating, doing whatever. And then, come october, he messages me on facebook. I was like, hey, can I call you motherfucker?
Speaker 2:that was all I'm like hey, okay, that's fine, he's got that great fucking beard.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'm like he was super handsome, okay, whatever, and I don't know anything in between what's going on? So he calls me and he's like. I was like, oh, I answered the phone, I'm like, gladys, you're not fucking dead. And he goes. I've been in rehab for the last day and I was like, oh, well, fuck.
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't know how to respond to that.
Speaker 5:I'm 24. I'm like I don't know, I don't even have a frontal lobe yet. I don't know what to say. It's almost developed, it's almost there. I was close, but so, yeah, and then we talked and he's like I'd like to get a date. I'm like, okay, cool, great. That was October. Yeah, first week of October went on a date second worst first date in my entire life.
Speaker 3:Whoa second worst first date.
Speaker 5:Come on where'd you guys go? I can explain why. Well, somebody didn't know how to date. Sober no.
Speaker 2:No, I get it. Yeah, I'm sure he didn't. That's kind of what I'm waiting for.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I'll backtrack a little bit. So when I got out of rehab I had while I was still in rehab I had asked my ex's brother to be my sponsor because he was working the program the Hispanic yeah.
Speaker 2:That there is a story.
Speaker 4:And you know, I I told my ex that if I, if we ever broke up, that I would get clean and sober and start working out. So, if I'm still sober till this day, out of spite, maybe you know but, um, yeah, so in another spiteful way, you know, I had, um, her brother be my sponsor. Um, you know, it was, you know, pre COVID time. So we had our weekend visits and he came up there, brought me cigarettes. You know, my mom visited and I remember we had to, we had to make our, basically our first amend, so my mom had to sit directly in front of me and I had to read the letter that.
Speaker 3:I had written her.
Speaker 4:And that yeah that tore me up.
Speaker 2:Let me ask can I ask a quick question right?
Speaker 4:there was your mom still drinking at that time, so my mom quit drinking two weeks after I went into rehab. Okay, god bless and she never worked a program. You know she may still have character defaults that you know are gonna live with her the rest of her life, but at least she was not drinking Right Like she's sober. She's sober, she's open to this day. She'd never, she'd never drink again after that.
Speaker 3:Tell me about the letter.
Speaker 4:Uh, the letter, the parts that I remember, um, it was just basically telling her sorry for being such a piece of shit, son. You know what I mean, like all the things that she had to put up with when she was just trying to give me the best life that she could, right.
Speaker 2:But nowhere in that letter did it say, you were a fucking drunk too.
Speaker 3:We're not supposed to do that. No, no, no, no. Well, that's what I was getting at.
Speaker 2:That's what I was getting at.
Speaker 3:Because there's one question I want to ask you but it hasn't, because when you had your revelation, before you went to rehab, you had called your daughters, your oldest daughter's mother, and just laid it on, I mean, and just blistered her, yeah, even though you were the problem. So you were the problem, yeah, did you ever correct that?
Speaker 4:I actually spoke with her several times before I went into rehab. Yeah, when I was staying at my mom's house. Okay, I was in contact with with my mother's, or my, my daughter's mom, yeah, yeah, and and that she, knowing Sean's story, that woman's a saint because bless you, to you to say stuff like that.
Speaker 5:That's good the amount of love for her daughter and even just the well-being of sean to not put him through what I probably would have put him through if I was her, is astonishing. As a female, well to have done and she, I think, was one of the contributing factors of making sure that Sean was able to reconcile with his oldest yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:Saying that because we were talking when Larry was dicking off. It's rare because I've decided to sponsor. It's rare, but a lot of times the parents will use the children as weapons and obviously she didn't. She put the daughter first, as she should have, which is awesome. Which is amazing.
Speaker 5:She was a very good mom. She is a very great mom.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I totally agree. Everything's on me, it's all me, it was always me.
Speaker 3:But the realization of that is painful, isn't it? It is it is, it's very painful and it it has been for you know, he knows that there's nothing more we want to do than to go back and fix go back and fix, oh yeah, you want to fix it so badly yeah?
Speaker 5:well, that's what men do. You guys are fixers yeah whether we want to be fixed or not, or yeah but, but once we know.
Speaker 3:But when you see the wreckage, yeah, you want to and there's, you can't, you can't unring the bell, but you, what we can do is the next right thing. And yeah, you know, yeah, but it's painful, I know, I can see it. Yeah, I can feel it. Yeah, hey, um, let me ask you a question, larry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, why you gotta do it right fucking now, and I'm trying not to fucking cry, prick why do you want to cry?
Speaker 5:I can feel.
Speaker 2:I can feel that pain.
Speaker 4:I can feel it.
Speaker 2:I can feel it. It hurts nothing with you, fucking hurts.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you're, here.
Speaker 4:I'm very happy that I'm here so I, I want it um.
Speaker 2:So I mean, we're all over the place right now, not really not really, so I mean my brain. Where's the?
Speaker 3:relationship now sorry my brain is your oldest.
Speaker 4:how is the relationship? Where is it? Oh, I was getting there, okay.
Speaker 3:Sorry.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and there's. Where do we live off? Rehab, rehab, just out of rehab Wait wait.
Speaker 3:You guys, you got out of rehab, you went on your first sober date.
Speaker 2:We were talking about the first date.
Speaker 3:You sucked at it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but she's there. There were some things before that yeah, outpatient. Yeah, I did.
Speaker 3:Sober living.
Speaker 4:No, no, no, Just outpatient treatment. I think my insurance paid for three months of outpatient, which I did breakthroughs in Modesto Corey. There was great in keeping me in check, you know, coming back to civilization, and I lived with my mom for two weeks after I got out of rehab just to make sure I was.
Speaker 2:I was taking care of your house during this time.
Speaker 4:So I was disability, screwed me around like I was heavily trying to get that disability check in there, um, before my rent was due, okay, um, and it, finally, it finally came through, it finally dropped and good, luckily, rent back then was only like 700 bucks a month. So, um, yeah, so the house was good, um, everything, everything paid for, um, live with mom. A couple of weeks after went back home, um, actually. So I got out July 3rd, right, and July 4th we went to an A's game and went to go watch fireworks, and it was the most miserable time I've ever had. Like, what do you do at a baseball game without drinking a beer, right? And then it's fair time I go to the fair. This is even worse. Like I can't go to beer gardens. Like, no, you can't, you can't, you better figure it out. Like you better find something else to occupy your mind and your time, you know, and it was like that for a while. I just had to go out there and keep doing things how was your sponsor?
Speaker 3:didn't work.
Speaker 4:Any steps, obviously um, I had started to and, and that's the thing, right like my garage was full of um beer signs and mirrors and shit, and he was like you have to take those down, that's a reservation. I was like what, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4:I like it, it looks cool, right, like I can guarantee you I'm not gonna drink again because of a fucking sign yeah, I can guarantee you I'm gonna keep this shit up in my garage because it looks cool and I paid a lot of money for it, right um? And then you know, no new relationships for for a year. Well, if I would have taken that advice, I wouldn't be with my wife, right, right, possibly. Right um, that's a stupid you know?
Speaker 3:no, they say no major decisions for at least a year. Yeah, motherfucker, I just turned my will and my life over to the care of god, or I mean, I just went into. If that's not a major decision, what is?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, and I think those you wonder where they come up with that shit, because it's nowhere in the fucking book.
Speaker 3:No, they just make shit up.
Speaker 2:Neither is the 90 and 90. Where the fucking comes from is beyond me.
Speaker 3:Ego, someone's ego.
Speaker 4:I guess man, but um, I I don't know if that was the deciding factor of me stepping away from working the program. I know Mary had gone to some. We used to go to Northside Fellowship.
Speaker 2:That's a rough one.
Speaker 4:It is very rough. A lot of in and outers man, no comment. I would get something sometimes from the stories, but there was so much relapse going on in and out of that fellowship that it was just like, yeah, what the fuck Like, is anybody serious about this? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's very hard when you and I once again, I don't want to talk negative about any meeting right North side. There's a lot of people that got sober there and that are still there.
Speaker 1:But which one were the one that broke off first time because they want to smoke pot. All right, let's move on there.
Speaker 3:Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 5:I got a lot out of it honestly, like, um, my past relationship before I got with sean. He was an alcoholic and I um, when we broke up, I was driving home and I was just crying, hysterical, whatever, and I was praying and I wasn't very. I didn't have my faith that I have now. It was just something you did, whatever. And I, like physically, can feel how I felt in that moment of praying. Like Jesus, I can't be with somebody who drinks again. Like, please bring me somebody who does not drink, cause I am not strong enough to do this. I cannot do the ins and outs, cannot do the bar pickups. I cannot do this anymore. Like god, you have to help me. Like I need help. I can't be with somebody. Obviously I'm not picking the good ones. You need to help me. And then we heard you we yeah.
Speaker 5:So like I had a little bit of history of being with somebody and you know there's certain alcoholics- did they help you understand a few things.
Speaker 3:so, being that I had a couple alcoholics in my family, did they help you understand a few things?
Speaker 5:So, being that, I had a couple of alcoholics in my family and, like I, it was always like, not taboo, but just like that wasn't a world that I came from. So I had no understanding because, like I grew up in a home where, like my parents may have drank and my parents were divorced, but either home they may have drank whatever, but like it wasn't prevalent that like nobody was gonna they're just normies yeah, like didn't fuck you normies yeah hey, go on with the show.
Speaker 5:Um, so I'm sitting in these meetings and I'm just like enthralled and I'm like like just eyes wide open and trying not to be judgy, because I'm just like that, what the fuck are we doing here? Kind of a thing, but just I don't know. Just seeing the different perspectives and a lot of it, like okay, like the biggest takeaways for me was okay, I know that I'm going to be with this man and like he cannot drink like a gentleman, and that is one of the biggest key phrases that came out of that as well as why not me? And literally like we went through a lot of infertility and a lot of stuff like that, and that literally stuck out as far as like well, why not me? And I think that had I not gone through that, it wouldn't give me a foundation to understand what sean was going through or how to respond to it, or because it was very like we're gonna hit the ground running when we got together yeah yeah, it was um you flipping, got a good one, buddy.
Speaker 3:You outkicked you just like him. You outkicked your freaking coverage that's all right, though.
Speaker 4:Good for you, and you've seen a lot of clientele in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't feel like yeah, I did, I just remember. Oh, this harder walk in. Oh shit, I just booked your ass, I'm in trouble yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 4:So I think that was my demise at the time of of working the program um you ever thought of going back, maybe working the steps and cleaning some house, or you?
Speaker 3:know, like I said like, just I mean it wouldn't hurt my grandmother like I said, sobriety is not a destination as a journey oh, absolutely I'm not, I'm not throwing anything out the window like I'm.
Speaker 4:I'm open to whatever it's gonna help me continue or help somebody else continue, like that was my whole reasoning for reaching out. You know, to larry for the podcast, like even though I may feel a certain way about my story and that it's not, oh, it's powerful that you know it's my story.
Speaker 3:It is so much of its mind is I love it.
Speaker 4:And I think for me, for me to tell it, like I kind of feel comfortable now, you know, speaking about it, but like just the thought of speaking about it when I hadn't told it, like Mary didn't know the whole story, like I never really sat there and you know for me to and you know from A to Z put it all together.
Speaker 3:How did it make you feel, putting it all on paper, like you?
Speaker 4:did? How many teardrops hit the paper? Yeah, well, they would have had to hit the computer screen, but you like the keyboard. Yeah, yeah, it was tough. I didn't hit writer's block, but there was a lot of a lot of things I didn't want to type out. That that I did, um, and and I let Mary read over it, she's all um, she wasn't, you know, not making fun of it, because I was just typing right, like I wasn't writing a novel. I was just typing out everything that I thought and that I remembered.
Speaker 5:It was written like a journal entry.
Speaker 4:Yeah, literally.
Speaker 5:Yeah, just throwing it out there.
Speaker 4:But I'm so glad I did because if I would have, you know, taken my own advice and just came here and winged it like there's a lot, of, a lot of things I wouldn't remember, A lot of feelings that that wouldn't have came about if I didn't type it out.
Speaker 2:You know it's funny, Sean. You say that I've told my story a lot and when I got invited three years right, I've never seen anybody with three years get invited to speak at Primary Purpose, right and I got asked to come and tell my story at a birthday At your home group, At my home group, and I had told I had told it a week prior and there was a part of my story that I never said out loud ever, even behind the walls with my wife ever, and it just flowed out of me like just and when I was literally done, I can remember thinking where the fuck did that even come from? I've never spoke about that anywhere.
Speaker 3:Someone in that room had needed to hear that have.
Speaker 2:I spoke about that.
Speaker 3:And God will pull it out of you. And it was factual.
Speaker 2:It wasn't shit. I embellished, it was nothing. It was literally shit that just came out and I can remember, as I was saying it, what the fuck is going on right now and just feeling that shit leave my body. It was just like another pound taken off of me Right. And I truly believe, as we go through life, we alcoholics, that are walking the correct path as we go through this and I mean I've heard guys at 20 years and 30 years. Just there was a guy speak at at our oakdale fellowship had 30 years of sobriety and he talked about giving his son up for adoption and and as he was saying it, broke down crying. 30 years after it happened, he still broke down crying.
Speaker 3:Well, you spoke the week before. I spoke the month before Right and about my mom and her trip to Maynard Right.
Speaker 1:I forgot about that I never shared that Right, and it just came out.
Speaker 3:And as you go, as God's not done with you, your stuff will come out Because you didn't go. This was not exhaustive. No, no, no no, so there's more stuff that'll come wherever company you're in. Yeah, different parts of your story will need to come out.
Speaker 2:It's amazing there's some more here that I'm not going to let him leave until I get, because I've had a moment to speak with you. So a couple of questions I want to cause.
Speaker 4:Are you done? Do you got more of your story? You're going to tell, yes, okay, keep going, cause I got questions. Um, so yeah, just just doing things until they became normal, right Without without having a drink or all the first, yeah, first golf game first bowling first yeah, everything
Speaker 4:right um, and, and you know, fast forward to me reaching back out to to mary in october, um of 15. So I was over what? July, august, september, four or five months, yeah, four months. Um, you know, I had to win some monster truck tickets on the radio. I was like hell, yeah, I'm gonna take it, let's see if she wants to go to the monster trucks.
Speaker 4:Not knowing that that was a jam you're gonna find out um, and luckily, her friend that she was working with at the time, like she wanted to dismiss me, reaching back out to her and her friends like, oh, give him another chance.
Speaker 3:He ghosted you yeah.
Speaker 4:So she did and we went and I remember it was awkward, right, and especially like the age gap at the time I was 38 and you were 24, I think, yeah, and you know, my first monster truck show without a beer, right. And then I think we did, we go out that night we went to the twin, the twin rivers yeah. And I was like what I do here.
Speaker 5:You know it was one of my first bars going to after I got, so and you're only four months out, yeah, which is wild to me to hear it now, because at that time I was like well, I'm going to the 20 going with me like, I don't give a fuck if you're an alcoholic or not. I'm sorry, that really sounds like your problem what is his problem?
Speaker 2:you're a thousand percent correct it ain't yours right thousand percent. You want to be with me. I'm going to the bar and I was testing him because I'm right yeah I'm drinking crown and cokes.
Speaker 5:Are you coming? Like are you gonna drive me? What's going on?
Speaker 3:I'm here, to lifelong dd. So, but long before that, you prayed a prayer that got heard. So, yeah, you need to test that, yeah. And then our second date.
Speaker 4:That'd be better, was it?
Speaker 5:I don't know, that was our first date. Second date was oh was it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first date was the second worst date she ever had yeah, so the first date is where wildfire is.
Speaker 4:Now I forget what it was. It's like chicago. Um, we yeah, we had dinner there. Um, all I remember is is ordering um chips and salsa. I was just stuffing my face and she was just looking at me like this guy's eating food, like he's never fucking ate before. That's because you didn't know what else to do. I did it right. I just want to stuff my face and like got outside and like got a side hug, high five I'll see you later. Right like I'm going home because I don't know how to do this.
Speaker 4:Like I I need to go out to the bars after this. What do we do now?
Speaker 5:yeah, because he was like text me when you get home.
Speaker 1:I was like okay, my girlfriend's already at the bar. I'm in my mid 20s.
Speaker 5:I'm doing what I want to do, yeah yeah, so that was and now we're here yeah, we are here um years later, right?
Speaker 3:like with another doctor, you're two-year-old, two-year-old daughter.
Speaker 2:Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on you got, god damn it well, we're gonna get to that, but I I need to hear the relationship progressing here a little bit because, I think our listeners want to hear, because at this point, mary, you should just fucking cut.
Speaker 5:Pretty much.
Speaker 2:Block his ass at this point.
Speaker 5:Like if that was my daughter, I'd be like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:So tell me the switch in you.
Speaker 5:So we had a couple more dates. Everything was going great, and then we had our first. Whatever the first day was like, the first week of october I was doing peace off memorial run. So it was like the first weekend, a couple dates and by thanksgiving, which is what like november 20 something yeah, you could not tell me I was not going to marry him and I am not really I am not impulsive.
Speaker 5:I plan out my life. I'm not having kids out of wedlock, I'm not doing a lot of shit like, and not that that's bad or good. It's just like I knew what I wanted for my life good for you and you weren't going to tell me anything different. And by thanksgiving I was like and that's what? Six weeks like, there was just this conviction in me that, like, this is who I'm supposed to be with, let's roll. You could have asked me to marry you.
Speaker 2:I would have married you, not thought twice about it but do you have, no, no idea where the switch was at?
Speaker 5:no, honestly, is. What sticks in my head is like thanksgiving morning. I was over there the night before woke up, went got coffee, went wash my car and I looked back at him and he was walking to the house because I was like, like I got to go we got the ads for Black Friday.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we went and got all that Back when Black Friday was Black Friday, yeah.
Speaker 2:Hold on, hold on a second, hold on, hold on, yes, hold on. You're leaving his house. Yes, yeah, okay. Well, we left the second date. Now you're leaving his house. What the?
Speaker 4:fuck happened here. This is I had a kid. Yeah, she couldn't stay away.
Speaker 2:All right, so second. So I'm probably going to cut this out but, I'm still fucking trying to figure this out. Within six weeks it went from terrible to but the third date. Was it the third date? Something switched.
Speaker 5:I think so. My mom always told me this rule she goes give men three dates before you cut them. But think about this thing I'm going to give you three dates.
Speaker 3:Here's a man who is not drinking, which is awesome. He's got a conviction. He's not. You know he had a problem. He's working on it. He's not trying to jump your bones. Right after the first or second date You're getting a high five or have dated before. You have to be intrigued like he was more mature getting because he's 30s, but still he's not doing the things that would normally a man would do. Right, I'm intrigued.
Speaker 5:I would think and I hadn't been dating like like the alcoholic before and like I was in like a four or five year relationship before that.
Speaker 3:So I was very I'm thinking the prayer is hitting home no, I'm thinking the same thing and like I don't know something.
Speaker 5:We were just like I was working swing shift at the time, so I was getting off. I mean I would work 16, 20s, whatever and get off hella late in the morning and we just were talking the whole time and going on dates and just hanging out.
Speaker 2:Friendship. Yeah, okay, I like I said I just for I couldn't go from the high five at Uno's to leaving his house. I'm like wait wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 3:Okay, so now that we got there, Okay, thanks for kidding.
Speaker 4:Now we're there. Our first kiss was at our third or fourth date.
Speaker 2:Okay, what was your mom's rule?
Speaker 5:She goes three dates. Three dates before you cut him in.
Speaker 2:Okay, Fair enough. Thank you, Mom.
Speaker 3:Fair enough, so you're leaving on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 5:Leaving on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3:You look back and I'm going to marry this cat.
Speaker 5:I literally looked out the door or out the window and I was driving away and I looked back and I was like, okay, god got it, got it, I'm done.
Speaker 2:Just gave me chills.
Speaker 5:Like that that was. It still gives me chills. Like there was. You could not convince me that. Like I've never in my entire life known exactly what I was supposed to be doing at the same exact moment, like that was my calling that.
Speaker 2:That was it. That was me walking katie out of the hospital.
Speaker 5:Yeah, uh-huh, know that feeling very well and that's only happened twice in my entire life what's first time sean the second time.
Speaker 5:Um, they told us that we could not have children after five years of IVF or not IVF, five years of trying to have our daughter, and they're like you can't do it naturally, like you're going to have to IVF. So we're like, cool, let's refinance the house. Because, like I was meant to be a mother and I didn't care, we're walking on water, I don't give a shit, we need to do what we need to do because I'm having a baby and not that we had talked about adoption, blah, blah, blah. Because I had multiple miscarriages, multiple targets and, yeah, I had six pregnancies. She was my sixth pregnancy in a short in two years. Yeah, after not. I mean, we tried for five years, but refinance the house, got everything situated and they told me you can't do it.
Speaker 5:And in my brain I was like you don't know what the fuck I can do right and I we were like, okay, and it was just like a fully, I just felt the feeling of surrender and I was like, and it was prayer, and I was doing all the wild shit to get pregnant. Like went to a healing doctor, we started chiropractor sean's like I cut out all the toxins out of our house. He's like, hey, can we stop cleaning with vinegar?
Speaker 2:Did she make you wear a different underwear?
Speaker 1:There was not one thing that the internet told me we were supposed to be doing that we were not doing.
Speaker 3:What do you think was the prayer? Where's the camera, kid?
Speaker 5:Come on, lay it on me, it was. We got baptized In 2020, 2022. It was. We got baptized in 2020.
Speaker 5:And I had already had a couple pregnancies, a couple miscarriages, a couple ectopics and I'd wanted to get baptized the fall before because we were starting to get into church and stuff like that and find our faith and I was like well, you let me know when you're ready, because something in my heart says we have to do this together, like this is very important to me, I need that, I need this, I need this together. So he's like okay, okay, whatever and I was like I'm not gonna push on you. Let me know when you're ready because, like one thing about like sean does a lot of shit out of spite which I use my we've learned in our marriage, but I'm not.
Speaker 5:I'm not going to push him to do something he's not ready to. So they did baptisms in January 22nd 2022. I'm I'm a Aquarius, my birthday is 27th and we just happened to go the weekend before, cause sometimes we'd we'd watch it at home, whatever. Well, they open them up and they're like, if you feel a calling, come up. And I walked into church and I saw this lady and we go to Shelter Cove. So I mean, it's not, it's a big church. It's huge.
Speaker 5:I had locked eyes with this lady walking in and I was like that's really weird, like and I'm very aware, I'm over aware of my surroundings, like I'm a very hyper aware person, and I saw her, we locked eyes. I was like that's so weird. We walked in and they opened him up and Sean turned to me he goes, it's time we need to go. And I said OK, and we're fully clothed, like fully.
Speaker 4:I got a fresh Dixon on you know.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Brand new Vans.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah, I got a closet for Brian I got him hooked on Dixon's A good friend of mine bought me some.
Speaker 5:Yeah that wouldn't happen if he didn't buy him for me. And we went in, we got baptized and I I literally looked at the lady who I didn't know she was sitting. I just took my phone, I hand it to me. I was like I'm going to want this. I said, hey, can you take pictures and record? She looked at me and she goes. The Holy Spirit told me to look at you and I said, okay, she goes. I knew what I was supposed to be doing. I said, okay, so she took pictures, got baptized and then we. So they said we couldn't have her. But that mixed with I don't know Like I don't know, like it was just a feeling in my gut that I knew. And then we got pregnant, naturally, yeah, after surrendering the thought, after refinancing the house, doing all the paperwork.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was. And that was my biggest, my hardest time with faith at that time, with Mary going through all the miscarriages. Why, why, why, why? Because of me, right like wayne, might be punished yeah, no am I not deserving of it. Um, and so my, my faith was depleted a lot at that time, and then we gave ourselves over, you know.
Speaker 3:And God always blesses obedience, not because we deserve it, but he loves to give his children good gifts and, by God, mary's going to be a mother. She was and she's a great one, I bet. Thank you, that's a great story.
Speaker 2:I'm just yeah, yeah if I hear nothing else, is it time for my questions yet yeah, ask your damn questions go ahead. Yeah, oh, you're gonna take a break, okay I go bathroom.
Speaker 3:That's love. Love is love.
Speaker 2:Don't hide right um, okay mom, you'll get it, you'll get it so I've never taken this many breaks in the podcast and it's fine. I mean the interruptions that we've had, it's perfectly fine.
Speaker 3:Well, you wanted her to say something on air.
Speaker 2:No, we were talking off air and you said something A. I love the compliment and I appreciate it. She gave you a compliment, she gave us Mary. I'm, I appreciate it. She gave you a compliment. She gave us. She gave us a compliment.
Speaker 5:Um, I was telling Larry that I'm very grateful that you guys do this, because it's definitely I've been listening over the last couple of weeks because Sean had to. Um, my husband doesn't ask me for a lot very rarely ever. Like he is a very good provider, and more than just monetary, emotionally, physically, all of it, spiritually, and so when my husband asked me for something like that's usually I'm not going to tell you now, and he had asked me for a week and a half to come on here and I was like, oh no, no, like you're good, you're good. But so I started listening because I was like, okay, what the hell are we getting into here? You know, this is very vulnerable and we've never, oh for sure.
Speaker 5:We've never. I mean, I worked at the sheriff's department. We were at canine dinners and hiding stories and not promoting things or dumbing things down. So to sit here and be very vulnerable was a lot for me.
Speaker 2:And I appreciate it you know you're right you know what this podcast goes to? 18 different countries. I've had 18. We have had 18 different countries. Listen to our podcast.
Speaker 4:I caught it, fuck you, I fixed it, you prick. I'm gonna call you next week, larry, and tell you I don't want to, I don't want to do no you you, fucking you.
Speaker 2:You bounce this one out, sean I, I'm going to be pissed. This is a good one and 6,000 plus listens. So I mean it's and I appreciate it. As I've said and we've said, it's the one soul. Right, it's the one soul, and I don't know whose story or how it's going to go or what it's going to say. You know, my change in life came from just somebody asking me why are you turning those chairs around? It's something that simple Changed my world, and you know what you're saying is. You know your perspective changed by hearing something that was said on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Right, I love stories. I love not just alcoholic stories or people. I love hearing people's stories because we all have them. Right, I love stories. I love not just alcoholic stories or people. I love hearing people's stories because we all have them. Right, every human being has a story. My life ain't no different than anybody else's life, right, my story's no different than anybody else's life. We all grew up in the same. We all have shitty parents. We all have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, I mean. So I love stories.
Speaker 2:I can remember going to celebrate recovery before I got sober and I still listen to those podcasts, the um. What do they call them at celebrate recovery? They call them. They call them something else. But when people get up and tell their story testimony, thank you. When they get up and do their testimony, I can remember being attracted to that and that was one of the things that made me like, even in the side of my, my alcoholism made me want to try and get sober. Obviously it wasn't enough, but you know it was um. Anyways, I went down a rabbit trail.
Speaker 5:Sorry, no go but that's kind of what we were talking about.
Speaker 3:Off air was just and you are close to his daughter. Yeah, in asia.
Speaker 5:Yeah, um I knew that marrying shan or sean sorry well, shana depends on what he's wearing I'm at the gay bar, yeah um, I knew that marrying sean I I was marrying an addict and I knew what that meant for the rest of my life and I did not take that job lightly and I know it's always going to live in our heads, it's always going to be there. But I knew like listening to this has really helped me to not bring it to light or that I'm concerned about it, but sometimes it just gets. It's so normal, right, we don't think about it no more.
Speaker 5:It's just it is what it is, but it's definitely helped to shift my perspective on certain things, or why his brain works the way that it does, or why, whatever Cause I mean we're, sean and I are very big into mental health, like we both go to. We both go to active therapy we've been.
Speaker 3:We've been in therapy for years.
Speaker 5:Oh, that explains a lot then.
Speaker 4:Um, we've done marriage there before and, like sean's perspective on there, you want to tell your perspective on well, it's just like I know there's a perception of somebody that is sober and doesn't work the program, you know that they're not getting but, but spiritual side and I'm getting you know yeah, I was gonna say you're not a white knuckler, no, no he's not by far, uh-uh.
Speaker 2:I mean it's you're rare and I told you that on the phone, but guys like you are rare but it wouldn't say it, it still wouldn't hurt to clean.
Speaker 3:I mean to it would open up your eyes. I mean you would, you would, once you did it not that you need it, I would say, but you would, you would, you would be grateful. Wow, I'm so grateful I did it.
Speaker 4:And even, and especially now where you're at, yeah, and I'm sure if I opened up my big book again there would be a lot of things in there that resonate with you know how I am now and how I feel now.
Speaker 5:A lot of it, too, is you have been this pillar of openness within, like our community, and I give you a sobriety coin every year. You do Really. Every year, every year Good, because 10 years.
Speaker 4:He came home in June and the house decorated and like it's a big deal we celebrate. It was a badass one. I got it at work, you know.
Speaker 5:But how many of those rings have you given away? Are those coins work? But how many of those rings have you given away? Are those coins Five? And how you know, like you, they come and they seek you out and you're such a support for them. Yeah, and it's. I don't know what it is and how alcoholics, brains, I don't know how you guys find each other, but there's just this secret, telepathic, it's like yeah, it is god, it's our gay dark. You're right, it's god.
Speaker 5:But you know, like it's just, you started working the program like you know I met your sponsor, you're you know I was friends with your sponsor yeah so yeah, and it's just, we fell into well, not fell into, but, like we did, premarital counseling you know what I?
Speaker 4:mean, and then from that doing the the group counseling together. We kind of did our own counseling separately, right, and that kind of didn't fill the void of working the program but it kind of did right.
Speaker 3:It does I mean, because I have my own person, that I could talk to it's accountability and it's it's openness, yeah so what are your questions? I was kidding fuck is your problem he's wanting to say something fuck sean.
Speaker 2:He's wanting to say, no, I, I just. There's a few things and you, you're, you're through your story. I have a little go go, go. I want Sean to finish his story because yeah we got distracted. Can I interrupt? No, shut up, I'm kidding, I have things to say, sir.
Speaker 5:Okay, like I don't know if I said it earlier, but Sean's never. We've never sat down and had these conversations. We've had the conversations. I put the pieces together.
Speaker 5:I love this man with my whole heart, but to sit down across from him from a table and hear this and knowing that the prerequisite not prerequisite, but the pre-conversations that we had to this is our oldest daughter, his oldest daughter, however you want to word it, um, she doesn't know his story and this, the reckon, the reconciliation that's happened over the last since easter is pretty much when all all the reconciliation has been happening.
Speaker 5:And we met in june and she included me and I'm very gracious of that and she I love that kid and like um, but for her to hear it from this perspective and have like Sean and I were talking, like he was explaining to me, he's like she has the opportunity to listen to this and press pause and ask questions rather than sit down and let me just dictate to you my entire life, and for her to hear it from this great point, absolutely Like what an honor and what an honor it is to be married to a man like this that is able to sit down and clearly depict that, and I'm very grateful that you guys are giving him this opportunity and our family's opportunity yeah, as soon as he reached out and told me I was not, I mean he.
Speaker 3:Well, and to know that someone's working a program or the program. Right is when a man or woman owns their shit yes, doesn't justify it, doesn't rationalize it, doesn't minimize it owns their part of everything which he does.
Speaker 5:He does.
Speaker 3:That's a man of God. In my opinion, that's a man of God, period.
Speaker 2:That's how a man handles business. Yeah, I mean, you honestly went down, mary. You opened up something that I was wait hold on. Sorry. I have mine written down so I don't forget. I want Sean to finish. I want to make sure Sean has every ounce of the platform he needs for that purpose right there.
Speaker 4:Okay, so it is. I'll pick up right after our baptism um in 22 um, and I remember me and mary having a conversation about how, um I need to make a decision, what's going to happen, how I'm going to approach um, contacting my daughter and reaching out and trying to have that relationship with my oldest daughter and she pushes me to do it Like she's all this is not right, like I'm technically her stepmother and I'm not comfortable with this.
Speaker 5:Like I'm not comfortable, not right, thank you.
Speaker 4:Right, thank you. And so it was around that time in 22 that I consistently started texting my daughter, whether she responded or not. Consistently, on her birthday holidays I would text her and wish her a happy holiday or happy birthday and tell her that I love her. You know, um, and I didn't always get a response back. And I remember I had texted her about um mary being pregnant and my youngest daughter being born and she had wrote back. She said, when the time is right, I would love to meet her and I didn't read too much in it at the time, but it was a premonition of what was to come right. And I don't think I got a response back from my oldest since Thanksgiving of 23. And I'd reached out to her on Easter of this year and she responded back and I'm like Mary, what do I do? Like, how do I handle this? She's all respond back Tell her what you want On her terms, in any capacity. This is what I'm looking for. Is this a possibility?
Speaker 2:What was her response to you to cause that thought process?
Speaker 5:Let me you want me to answer?
Speaker 2:Well, obviously, while your finger twitching. There's been a lot of conversation there has third Good.
Speaker 4:So there has not been um one day that has passed since Easter that either I have text her or she has text me, which I couldn't imagine, you know it's fine you can paraphrase it Um, basically she said I hope that you and your family are doing well. Um, how is, how is my youngest daughter doing? Right Like, okay, that's a, that's all a branch, right Like?
Speaker 2:that's, that's a conversation. Yes, that's not a high. That's not, that's a. That's a, that's a conversation.
Speaker 4:It is. And so from there, you know, I took my wife's advice and told her what, you know, I wanted and if she would be willing to, you know, accept any of that, If she would be willing to have a relationship, whatever it looked like you know with me and she basically said you know I would. I would like to start fresh, no expectations, um, I said that's fine. How would you like to communicate? You know phone calls, facetime text. She's all uncomfortable with text like perfect, like this is what we'll do.
Speaker 2:And you were okay with that.
Speaker 4:I was. I was more than okay to have a a continual um open dialogue, yes. And she had let me know um that she would be coming to California they visit every year to visit family, right, and would I like to get together. And she proposed that she did, she did and, of course, yes, yes, I would um. And then she had to reconfirm.
Speaker 4:the closer it got, I'm like my, my decision hasn't changed, you know right of course, um, and then I wanted to know if she just wanted me, me and her, or you know the family, and obviously you know in my selfishness like, yes, I just want me and my daughter.
Speaker 4:Oh, for sure, I can imagine, I want that Right, right, but, um, her boyfriend was with her and she wanted to bring her boyfriend and you know, probably comfortable for her. Yes, yes, safety, blanket type of type of thing. That's, that's perfectly fine. I want to meet the person that you her life spent him, her life was right, um, and she wanted to meet mary and and my youngest daughter, um, so, yeah, we set up, set up the date to meet, we, we went out to dinner, we went out to Dust Bowl and, yeah, I don't know why that's, but, okay, and I don't know if it was subconsciously, but I think I told you, larry, like, like, does my daughter drink, you know, right?
Speaker 2:Right Now. We talked about this, yeah, and does.
Speaker 4:Is this passed down for me, like, do you have potential for a problem Right Now that we talked about this? Yeah, and as as this passed down for me, like, do you have potential for a problem? Right? And we ordered drinks, and they both ordered sodas, I think, and I had brought it up. I'm like do you, do you like to drink? She said in high school, you know, like every high school kid or whatever but, she said really, not really, um, and that just like thank God, right, you know cause.
Speaker 5:Those are conversations that we've had, yeah, like is this, is this something she struggles with? Is this something? Yeah?
Speaker 3:Did I give her the worst part of me?
Speaker 4:Right yeah.
Speaker 5:And then somebody told me it skips generation.
Speaker 3:I'm like great. So my youngest? Um no, but I didn't skip generations in my family. I don't, I don't think that's kids is right in the face.
Speaker 4:Um, but you know, awkward. It was awkward, but I just came out and said this is awkward, you know, and this is good for you. I've been waiting for this for so long. I explained to her how much guilt and shame Right there in the middle of the decibel. Yeah, god damn how much guilt and shame that I carry for what I did to her.
Speaker 2:Good for you, good for fucking you, god damn Good for you.
Speaker 4:What came fucking you? God damn Good for you. What came out of her mouth next? I did not expect she's all. I was so young that one day you were there and one day you weren't, and you had to go fix yourself. I don't blame you, I don't blame you and I don't blame you. I believe I'm paraphrasing yeah, basically that she does not she didn't have any resentment to you right and because if it was me and my parent did that to me like I've seen all kinds of resentment.
Speaker 5:Most times she told him you wouldn't be where you are today and we wouldn't be sitting here had you not done what you did oh yeah and what?
Speaker 4:21 year old right, she thanked mary, she's all I want to thank you, because he told me he wouldn't be here without you because I opened the table up I said hey, I know we're all on comfy, do you have anything you want to ask?
Speaker 5:because the way we run our house is an open book. So what do you want to know? This is not you don't have to be embarrassed like. We will answer wholeheartedly and honestly. If it ever hurts, what can we, how can we help you heal and what can we do to support you? What do you need?
Speaker 2:And the response, or? Sorry, I'm wanting detail, I'm sorry, I'm like I literally I want to be on the table listening to this, because this, this is incredible. So what? So where are you at? I don't want to miss anything. I want to know where you're at now, but I don't want to miss anything from that dust bowl to now. Where are you guys at right now?
Speaker 4:I'm still uh texting back and forth conversations daily conversations. Her, her boyfriend, has a four-year-old daughter, um, and it's summertime so they're getting her like every other week. So when my youngest was born, like I wanted so bad for her not to grow up and not want anything to do with me and it's just my mind, right I did that to my oldest and there'd be no fucking reason for my youngest to not want to but we had had some multiple conversations.
Speaker 5:I mean, we had five years to prep for a kid, so there was a lot of conversations happening about how I wanted to parent, how I wanted to style, how this was going to go down, hopefully, and one of the big conversations we had had was you will not parent my child out of the guilt and the the lack of healing from what has taken place.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 5:My child will not pay that price.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. And how did you accept that?
Speaker 4:It's, it's all right. I mean, I still work at it. To this day. Like it's. It's very hard, cause I don't want to be the bad person, cause I don't want to give her any reason not to.
Speaker 2:You can overdo it, though I would think. I don't want to sound like I'm coming from a psychologist's brain, but I could imagine you may overcompensate, like your mother did, I think.
Speaker 2:I would. Yeah, I think I would. I think it's me because I know how much guilt I carry in me and we're going to try to fix and overcompensate. And I think Katie sometimes gets frustrated because I'm over the top, wanting to do whatever I fucking can for her. So I try to make up for all the shit I put her through in one day. I mean. So I can imagine. And same with my daughters, right, I mean I'll do for them what I've never done.
Speaker 3:Remember that's not love.
Speaker 2:No, it's not, it's not.
Speaker 3:I want my daughter to have, or my child to have, this because I didn't provide for the first one, or you know, and that's that's not love. You know, it may look like love, it may seem like love because we're going to provide for, but make sure that it's it's it's got to be and love. Love takes different forms and it's not always in a gift. It's sometimes it's not receiving the gift of not giving. You know, withholding at times, but I think you'd be, I mean, you, let god lead, you'll be fine, but but that's beautiful way you said it. We don't parent. How to get like your mother did. You were deprived of a father, so I'm going to give you the, the pickup, I'm gonna give you all this. That's not love, that's just stuff.
Speaker 5:Yeah and I think the pendulum swung so far for him when we had our daughter and I'm I'm a first-time mom, but it swung so far over that it was it had to be corrected and the through conversations that we've had and just like hey, god was preparing you with those five years Beautiful. There is a reason that God waited five years to give us her.
Speaker 2:How hard did you cry when you held her for the first time.
Speaker 4:Oh, it was overwhelming the amount of love and joy I felt holding her, because I wasn't able to do that with my oldest Right. I was in the middle of getting kicked out of the army. You weren't there when she was born. You were mentally not even there.
Speaker 5:It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:I mean with the alcohol, the drugs, we weren't, we were stuffing and burying, and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:The birth of my two first grandkids. It was all right, can we go get a drink now, Right, yeah. And then, when I got the whole, my Everly emotions.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right, yeah, and just going through the experience with Mary and like the whole experience, the whole time, and you know, almost catching her when she came out.
Speaker 5:Well, they told me to stop pushing cause they didn't have a doctor.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 5:I literally said, said that doesn't sound like my problem my husband will get my daughter move, you're right and they're like you have to wait, you have to wait, you have to stop. And I'm like, no, get the fuck away from me, I can do this myself move but I, I know anything's possible.
Speaker 4:You know, being with this woman right here who has pushed me. You know, from 2015 till now, like so many great things have come into my life and happened to my life because of her, and I know that she has nothing to do with my sobriety, but she has everything to do with my sobriety yeah um, good way to say it. You know she's we bought a. You know we bought a house together before we were married. She had pushed me to go to the va to get disability.
Speaker 5:We bought a house together because I said I'm not paying or we're not paying for a wedding, I'm coming home to pay somebody else's fucking rent true true, um, but she pushed me to go to the va for for disability compensation that you know I was 20 years out of the military right.
Speaker 4:There's no way they're gonna get me, and sure enough like I said, buddy, you're, you got some.
Speaker 5:You got some problems. We need to go get checked out, you know.
Speaker 4:And I had forgotten the stuff that was in my out processing packet. You know what I mean because if you're, if you're enlisted, they're just gonna push you through unless you're, you know you get that dd214, yeah, yeah um. So you know it helps us out greatly, you know, in monetary value for our family yeah, but more than that you've been able.
Speaker 5:You just completed your bachelor's. You're taking a certificate course at UCLA right now. Yeah, you're projected to start your master's in the fall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why don't you talk about yourself? What the fuck is wrong with you guys that do this? Who did we find out, like two days after? Oh, it was Mike that had a daughter that didn't talk about it.
Speaker 5:I'm like what the fuck, it's because you need to bring the wives on.
Speaker 2:No kid was here, you ain't kidding, you ain't kidding, yeah.
Speaker 4:And from a kid that had to go to night school to graduate high school and didn't have no interest in college after high school Because I had the opportunity right through my dad being 100% disabled veteran. They would have paid for my high school paid for my.
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 4:Anywhere. I want Right, except for Harvard. Right, I dicked around. Right, I enrolled at Merced JC and went to one class. Fuck, never went back. I enrolled, you know, took some bullshit, fucking classes at Modesto and fucking.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but it wasn't God's timing.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 2:And yeah, but it wasn't god's timing, right, and that was the baseline. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, all in god's timing. So a couple questions before we wrap up your graphic design. Are you still doing that?
Speaker 4:um, I do, I do, I dabble, I still have my uh, you sell it, no, okay, no, I uh, I can create and I love creating. I just haven't had the opportunity for for anybody Um other than myself you can make a graphic design for FFS studios, for ours. I would love to.
Speaker 2:I would love to hang something up in here. That would be pretty fucking cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, what FFS stands for.
Speaker 4:No, I do not, for fuck's sake.
Speaker 2:You know why? Cause every time I bought new mics or something, katie, that was Katie's response. For fuck's sake, what now? Need a thousand, need a thousand. Yeah, I mean, you said that, so I was just curious about that. What are you studying in school?
Speaker 4:So I got my bachelor's in business marketing.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:I'm currently taking a project management certificate program okay, uh, through ucla and then most likely my master's is going to be in business marketing well, you want to market this, this podcast.
Speaker 2:For me, sure, dude. Like I said on the last one, if anybody wants to, anybody wants to run influence in it, then I would anybody wants to run my social media, I'd be more than happy, because I I'm going to you, that's.
Speaker 2:I'm horrible at it. I'm horrible at it and I've had a few people try to do it, but because I'm not the anyways, I don't want to go down that road. It's just it takes somebody that knows what they're doing. It does do that side of it, sean, I mean the, the sobriety side of things.
Speaker 4:Like I remember when I first got sober there was o'doul's. Right now you have 805. You guys here in nevada, like everybody's jumping on board and we've even talked about opening up a, a sober bar right like cigar bar, sober bar, like it's the stigma around being sober, it's like it's cool. Now.
Speaker 2:There's a lot. There is a. That is very right.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean what's funny is I want to be careful how I say this, because I know people people are using their sobriety because it is cool, not because they're sick, right, right, and I that frustrates me when I see it, because I know it right, they're using their sobriety because it's the cool thing to do and there's a lot people pushing their marketing because of it. The you know what? I? I follow a lot of sober pages, you know, for studying of the podcast and there's just there's so much monetary stuff happening because of sobriety and it fucking pisses me off when I see it. I I had somebody trying to reach out to, wanted to be, wanted to be on the show, right, and come to find out he was pushing a marketing side that he wanted just to do some marketing and call and do, and I was fucking livid and I was like how many more of these motherfuckers are out there taking using what we worked so fucking hard to get and many people work so hard to get and trying to monetize on it? All right, you fucking prick. Yeah, I was pissed, so I'm. You know there's a lot of people that make money doing this but are recovering. Addicts are recovering, are are solidly into it and they should be making money doing what they do because they're smart. Yeah, they know what they're doing.
Speaker 2:We have a lady coming up from la who owns two recovery centers and a recovery center for for horses. She works her ass off. Following her is a blast and she finally reached back. I've been texting her since like august the last year and she finally decided to come. She finally answered me. So they're.
Speaker 4:My point is is it's just anyways, I went down a fucking rabbit hole because it pisses me off yeah, yeah, no, understandably like, and you know, I feel like I'm a, I'm uh, I feel like I would have the right to do something like that I'm so fucking loot and it, it excites me, like to do something like but then, but then again. Oh, in another 10 years is that going to be popular, right?
Speaker 3:Is it a fad, one day at a time?
Speaker 4:Cigar bars. Cigar bars.
Speaker 2:Problem is, for us alcoholics, this ain't no fucking fad. No Right, for real alcoholics it ain't a fad. Yeah, sean, anything you want to leave us with.
Speaker 4:I'll just say you know, one day at a time, and recovery is not a destination, it's a journey, and I'm happy to have met you know, are you?
Speaker 2:been rob and and you know, I think our brother brad says this right I don't care how you get sober, as long as you stay sober, right, and I mean I and I said this a little bit ago he is an anomaly for somebody that can stay, that be 10 years sober and not white knuckled.
Speaker 3:Well, let's be honest. Who's keeping him sober? God? Well, no, geez. Oh, all right, I say my power, we got well, God, same higher power we got. For me it's God maybe he was a certain type of heartbreaker. I think he's definitely one of us but he's doing it the same way we are he's going to counseling getting baptized, but you know what? He needs to do, he needs to come join us on Monday nights and I'll take him to the steps and he'll get a second eye opener.
Speaker 2:I knew that shit was coming. I told you, sean he'll get a second eye opener and he'll be even more I told you he's gonna fucking hit you with that there's so much more freedom that you can get there is, and you know the thing is, 10 years sober. All that. He's awesome. It's amazing.
Speaker 3:I love it this is one of my favorite ones. I love it no, thank you. Mary, thank you for coming.
Speaker 2:No, thank you for asking that right and thank you for thinking of that, because she is a huge part of your story. You know what I'm going to throw this out there because, especially if your daughter is listening, there's a seat there for you and there's a seat right there for her. That would just absolutely be amazing, and God can do all things as you know.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean it would be absolutely amazing. It was the most difficult thing I ever had to do was sit across from my daughters and listen to them I could imagine pour their hearts out, but, and and my wife but, the amount of healing that happened for my daughters happening, and it's still happening, yeah, and the thought of them coming on to the show the weeks come leading up to it was healing because of the conversations that happened the month before katie up, not even the months the the whole year prior, because Katie and we'd been talking about it for the whole year prior. The conversations that happened were healing and open. It's just incredible. And and I just I would literally fly from wherever I'm at If she's here and says, hey, we want to record tomorrow.
Speaker 2:I know that man sitting across from me would do it. So, without a doubt, to have something like that, my seat, my house, my seats are open for you, our seats, just absolutely. Larry, she's here, let's go, I'm, I'm there. We'll heat these mics up in a heartbeat. I appreciate that it. It's a healing process. Man, it's a healing process and you know to do it in this forum, right? I think, mary, you said that a minute ago. It's just relaxed, right?
Speaker 3:it's just relaxed. You should forget about.
Speaker 2:These are even there yeah, it's just a relaxed setting and anyways, I'm going down that rabbit hole. I want to make sure you know that's. That's a thousand percent available for you to open. Yeah, okay, rob rob's on a hard out, we gotta go. Thank you two, very much, thank you very much this opportunity all right, thank you, see you, I need your help.
Speaker 2:Oh god bless. I can't tell you what it is. You can never let me hear that he's watched the town. I feel like thank you for joining us today. We hope you learned something today that will help you If you did not come back next week and we'll try again If you like what we heard, give us a five-star review.
Speaker 3:If you don't like what you heard, kiss my ass. I can't say that, can you? Anyway, if you don't like what you heard, go ahead and tell us that too. We'll see what we can improve. We probably won't change nothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks, rob. Come back next week and hopefully something will be different and something will sink in. Take care, this has been Recovery, unfiltered. You, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.