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Grant hosts Sam, from Frax - a modular rollup - who shares his insights on the importance of DeFi and how it's the foundation for a successful ecosystem.

The podcast discusses the current state of the crypto industry, specifically focusing on Ethereum and DeFi (Decentralized Finance). 

Sam critiques the current narrative around Ethereum, arguing that it's being valued as a business rather than a store of value. 

Sam also emphasizes the importance of long-term vision and commitment to developing a successful chain or community.