147: How to Stand Out When Anyone Can Create Content With AI

In this episode, Jules White is joined by Rebecca Mackay Miller of BLOC + ROSE for a conversation about how to stand out when anyone can generate content at the click of a button. Together they explore why your unique human perspective and lived experience are now the only real way to show you are a genuine expert, rather than someone who simply knows how to use an AI tool.

Rebecca shares how she helps multi-passionate founders become known for one big, ownable idea that connects everything they do, rather than exhausting themselves marketing several different versions of themselves. Jules reflects on how a session with Rebecca was the spark that brought her whole "social media is optional" philosophy together, and the podcast series that grew from it.

They also talk about getting your SEO foundations in place before worrying about whether AI will recommend you, writing in plain language that both people and search engines can understand, why intuition should sit alongside external data, and why being a little contrarian helps you cut through. Rebecca then shares a simple exercise you can try straight away to start uncovering the threads that make your thinking your own.

Key Takeaways:

Why your perspective matters: In a world of AI-generated content, your lived experience and point of view are what help you stand out in search and show genuine expertise.

Commodity vs non-commodity content: Understand the difference between surface-level content anyone could generate and the deeper, first-hand content only you can create.

The one ownable idea: Why becoming known for a single, connecting philosophy is more powerful than marketing multiple versions of yourself.

Plain language wins: Why writing clearly enough for a 12-year-old to understand helps both your readers and the bots crawling your site.

The soft end and sharp end of the stick: How to keep the basics of what you do crystal clear, while building out the richer narratives that give your work depth.

A simple exercise to start: Try the noughts and crosses grid to surface your beliefs and hot takes, then push to the bolder version to find your real thread.

Women and thought leadership: Jules and Rebecca discuss why raising your head above the parapet can feel harder, and why it matters for the generations coming after us.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Listen to how to grow a business without constant posting, the most downloaded episode of the show (Episode 102)
• Episode 128: Is ChatGPT Making you doubt yourself 
• Join the Success Without Socials community
• Find Rebecca at her website, BLOC + ROSE
• If you'd like help translating your unique positioning into words people are actually searching for visit Jules' website for to find out how she can help.

Transcript

Introduction & Welcome

Jules White: So, hi, welcome back to the Website Success Show.

It is Jules here and I'm really looking forward to recording today's episode.

I don't have that many guests come on to the show.

Just bringing in people who I know can really help you to grow your business, escape social media, hopefully make the most of the content that you are already creating and just get really clear on your messaging.

And I just really wanna bring people on that you'll find are interesting conversations and I know this is definitely gonna be a good one today.

So I'm very excited to welcome a special guest today who has helped me in my own business.

So welcoming the lovely Rebecca Mackay Miller from Bloc and Rose.

So Rebecca and I met through the Female Founders Rise community, which is a, it is a fantastic community of women entrepreneurs and you know, I'm all about community and really making the most of the people that we meet and getting to know people and building on relationships.

So welcome Rebecca. It's so lovely to have you here.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Thank you. Um, yeah, thank you so much for inviting me onto this.

So we did, I was reflecting this morning on how we met and it was through Female Founders Rise, but you very kindly offered to be part of some research I was doing into how to I think build a brand as a multi-hyphenate, as a multi-passionate, um, and I feel like now we've gone full circle, right?

Because you helped me through that and then I supported you in some stuff and now here we are, I guess sharing the fruits of all of that, all of that collaboration and work that we've done together.

So yeah, really excited to have

Jules White: Yeah. Think I Absolutely.

Yeah. And I think that it does just show the power of collaboration as well.

I think it's, yeah, it's, it is definitely been helpful when I, I, I can't remember, I think I saw you post something in the FFR group after we'd already met and, and worked together and everything and I saw you post something in the group and I just thought, oh, that would be a great chat to have.

Really. I think so.

So I think part of this is the world of search is changing massively and has already changed.

Lots of things haven't changed, and I've definitely talked about this over the last few episodes of what, what things we don't need to worry about, but also the things where the foundations are often the same.

And I think it's definitely, um, that there's so much there that people need to have set up to get their SEO working for 'em and get their, their business showing up on Google.

And I think we can often skip to just how can I get AI to recommend me?

But we get the foundations in place first.

We get some, get our, our website set up well and set up in a way that's gonna work for us.

But one of the big things, and this is the reason I wanted to have a chat with you, Rebecca, was about the ways that we can stand out.

Because anybody can create content.

Anybody can, um, generate something that, um, generate like content using AI.

But the thing that helps us to stand out, especially from an SEO point of view, is our unique human lived experience, our own perspectives.

And that's really the only way that we can stand out now and show that we are a, uh, an expert in what we do, rather than just somebody who knows how to use an AI tool to create, create content that makes us look like an expert really.

So that was why I wanted to have this chat with you, Rebecca.

So I would love you to introduce yourself and let us know what you do.

Meet Rebecca Mackay Miller

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Sure. So I'm Rebecca.

Hello. Hi.

Um, I do essentially on paper, it's personal positioning and personal brand for multifaceted, multi-hyphenate, multi-passionate founders.

Um, and essentially what that looks like is getting them known, helping them stand out for their one big ownable idea perspective philosophy that doesn't separate from what they do, but more kind of encompasses it.

So, you know, imagine you're the kind of person I imagine many of your listeners are who might do group programmes.

You might also do some consulting for corporates.

You might have a creative pursuit that you do on the side.

You might be really into, you might be really active in a cause somewhere else.

And you know, potentially you've got something completely different going on elsewhere.

Um, the, this is who my clients are basically, and when they come to me, they are exhausted from marketing multiple versions of themselves or feeling like they're a slave to the algorithm because they're constantly have to show having to show up in different places.

Um, often, and this is one of the things that came out of the research that you are part of, they feel like their different facets undermined each other.

So for example, I, I had a conversation with this, she had been an actor, she had been lots of different things, but the moment she was doing, she was a singing coach, she was teaching singing to kids, which is the most beautiful thing to do.

And she was also a presentation coach.

So she was a vocal and a presentation coach to corporates and she didn't feel like she could talk about the singing lessons because she felt like it undermined the, her authority in the corporate space.

And to me, that's so sad, um, because none of us are one thing, right?

And it's just so sad and so exhausting.

Especially I think when you get to a certain age, you are like, no, done with this.

I'm done following the line and feeling like I have to show up in a certain way and be one thing to be heard or understood or credible.

So the work that I do with clients is to read this stuff and really mine and uncover the beliefs and the thoughts and the ideas and the philosophies that connect all the different things that they do, find the thread, and then translate that thread into a really ownable, punchy idea positioning platform that is what they become known for.

And they use that to sort of rise the tide, I guess, on everything else that they do.

And what that means is, rather than walking into a room and being like, oh yeah, I do, like, I've got a group programme and like, you know, I consult over here and I'm also, you know, I, I do a lot in for that cause or whatever.

You be like, I do lots of things, but really what I'm interested in is this, or really what I'm known for is this.

And that becomes the spark of the conversation and that becomes the thing that you're known for and recommended for.

So in quite a big nutshell, actually, that's what I do.

The Social Media Is Optional Story

Jules White: That's amazing.

And that does, does say in a nutshell, the work that we did together.

When you helped me, you helped, I had a session with Rebecca and this was the, it was the spark actually that brought together the whole social media is optional philosophy for my business.

And I have to say that since I embraced that and since I had that session with you, well the first thing I did was I created a podcast series and you go back and listen to those episodes from episode 102 to 106.

I've recorded lots of episodes since then about social media being optional.

And I, in fact, even before that, like I think I worked out the other day that episode two is all about social media being optional in one way or another.

It's always

Rebecca Mackay Miller: there.

Jules White: Yeah, it always has been there.

But having that chat with you helped me to map out those, um, four or five episodes that became a series that was re that was, was, I felt really proud about that series.

We talked, I talked in those episodes about like the damaging effects of the algorithm, why women in particular are affected by this.

And it was all things that we'd had a chat about and you helped me to just come together or like get together a plan of how to make that something that was really tangible that I could use in my business.

And I have to say that episode 102, which is the one that kicked off that series, is, has been my most downloaded episode ever.

It's called Social Media Is Optional, How to Grow a Business Without Constant Posting.

And it's far and away the, the, the, the episode that still gets the most amount of downloads.

So definitely it resonated with people.

And that's, I think that's all the one thing that I've found since then.

I, and I, I think all of this, it kind of, you dip in and out and, and I'm still working on this.

I'm still getting this like this, the confidence, I think to be able to say this is, that is, that is the thing.

This is what I do.

I, I help people with their SEO, but the thing that I'm really known for being and becoming more known for is the social media is optional.

Yeah.

And I've just launched a community, the Success Without Socials community, and I'm, I'm honestly, uh, been blown away by how many people have wanted to join straight away.

And I can't say I'm surprised about it because it, this all comes from conversations I have every day with people about the fact that they hate social media and hate the constant posting.

But I think just having that chat with you, it was just so powerful just to get that, those, that, those ideas in kind of one place I think really.

So, yeah.

So thanks for that.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: But I love hearing these stories because like, there's so many things that I can kind of say on that.

I mean, you've got your new community, but you've got your old community and you've got your SEO work that you do.

It's all always sort of centred around that.

But I got the sense from our call that you almost felt like you had to sort of.

But you had to explain what you did or justify what you did, or almost like justify why someone should spend their money with you as opposed to elsewhere.

Whereas now that you are, and under the skin, this was always there.

But now that you've got this sort of positioning piece, this platform, you're like, well, this is why.

And there's so much.

And one of my favourite things I remember about our session and actually all the sessions I have with clients, is that as soon as this escapes your lips, like the energy just shifts, like you came alive and like the series, the podcast series that you mapped out afterwards, those were all the narratives and the, the sort of supporting beliefs and perspectives that you could use to expand on and substantiate that belief.

And there was, once you got going, there was so much, so much that you found you had to say on this.

And this is the magic of it really.

Because then suddenly you're not finding yourself talking about the things you do, you're talking about the things you believe, and there is so much more passion and energy that will come through every word you say and every word you write.

And people pick up on that and they're like, yes, I believe that too.

Or like, I hadn't even thought of that, but yeah, I'm interested.

I wanna know more.

How could that work for me?

And it's far more, a far more effective way of connecting with people and cutting through than just talking about the benefit of SEO, which to your point, earlier.

Anyone could ask that question in a chat and they would spit up content that isn't wrong.

Jules White: Well, sometimes it is quite, quite often, well, not, maybe not wrong, but maybe a thousand people's voices.

That's the trouble, right?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Exactly.

Exactly.

It will be boring and bland and forgettable.

Jules White: Yeah.

And quite often, not necessarily wrong, but maybe out of date or you know, not, or not right for your unique business or, or maybe not coming at it from the point of view of, or social media is optional, but if you're not gonna use that, then these are the other things you do need to do.

Really.

Yes,

Rebecca Mackay Miller: exactly.

Jules White: Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

So I think this, it's really, it's, there's kind of two sides of this really.

There's the human side, and I think this is true with websites as well.

There's the human side of you want of, you're thinking about the person that's reading your website, but also behind that you are also thinking about the bots that are reading through your website and understanding more about what you do.

And I think as you say this, we, we have to use, we have to use the words that people are searching for on our website.

And that's something that can be, I think can be a bit difficult.

And especially for, I, I see this quite a lot if I'm doing website audits and things like that, I see this quite a lot.

It's a common thread actually that does come through that people, it's just not clear.

I look at a website and I'm not a hundred percent sure what people do.

And I think that can be hard when we use very emotive language on our website and we, and we are those kind of multi-passionate people who, um, who don't wanna be boxed in.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

Clear Messaging for Humans and Bots

Jules White: Does this work that you do?

I, I know sort of how it helped me from, from my point of view, but in terms of actually getting these things into plain language that somebody can understand.

What are your kind of thoughts on that?

Because I think it is really important for the bots and also for people.

I always say if, if my 11-year-old nephew or my 82-year-old mum can understand what you do, then that you, you know, that that's helpful really to be put in the arena to even be considered to show up in search.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Um, a hundred percent.

Like my filter that I have for myself is not, would my daughter understand it because she's eight.

And I think that might be challenging myself a bit too much at times.

But like, could a 12-year-old, I feel like a 12-year-old is sort of the base level.

Like could, could a 12-year-old understand and get a grasp of what I do.

And actually I'm giving my daughter a bit of a hard time 'cause someone asked her the other day what she said and she said that I help people find their voice.

And I was like, it's not necessarily language that I would use, but I was like, that is, that is it.

But that is what I do.

Um.

And it can be challenging because sometimes the thoughts and the perspectives and the philosophies, like they run quite deep and they're quite expansive and, you know, it requires a lot of distillation and organising.

So much of my work is, I call it soft end and sharp end of the stick.

Um,

The Sharp End vs Soft End of the Stick

Rebecca Mackay Miller: and the sharp end of the stick stuff has to be the very basic, like, who are you building this for?

What do they need?

How do you deliver it?

How are they gonna measure success?

What's actually gonna change for them?

Like really, really base level stuff.

And you wanna be able to answer those questions in a sentence, a short sentence, and, you know, focus on, on getting that stuff really, really clear.

But the softer end of the stick is where you elaborate on that.

And that's when you can share, well why that outcome matters or how your perspective on how you achieve that outcome is different.

Or perhaps how the specific problem they're facing or challenge that they need your help overcoming is connected to something on a cultural level.

Like what are the bigger patterns, the bigger behaviours, the biggest shifts that are going on that are feeding into that.

And what that means is that you, yes, you are able to explain what you do in the impact of your work and who for to humans and bots in really simple language.

But also you don't get bored because then you have all this material and, and I call them sort of thought-leading narratives that enable you to ladder out and expand on all these points that give it substance, that give it tissue, that give it fabric.

And the idea is that by developing out the narratives that sit underneath or around or cushion the very sharp end of the stick stuff you, like you did with your podcast, you find that you've got a series of works that you can talk about.

You know, this can be, this is the basis of a body of work.

It, these things can become the chapters of your book.

They can become the sections of your Substack.

They can become the series on your podcast.

Um, and the idea is that you are fleshing out this body of work that is centred around this very sort of specific, well yeah, this is what I do.

You know, you need people to understand it.

Like, you can't go too, you can't be, you can't overindulge yourself too much because otherwise, to your point, people are like, I mean it sounds great, but how's that gonna help me?

Um, it's, oh yeah, it sounds great and why aren't you fascinating?

Yeah,

Jules White: yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Aren't you interesting?

Like, that's such an interesting perspective and actually that's so aligned.

Yeah.

And often when I have conversations with people, it's like, yeah, I've thought all of this stuff, but it's like out there, it's like in my other life.

Yeah.

That isn't connected to work and I don't bring that to this space 'cause I dunno how to merge the two.

But I want to, but, and that's what this work is, and I call it, rather than, I think traditionally sort of messaging and positioning systems frameworks have been quite hierarchical.

You know, you have your vision statement at the top and then you have everything sort of slots into place.

But what that hierarchy or that those frameworks produce is very static statements that might look great on a headline, on social media post, but they end the conversation because there's no depth behind them.

And often when you just produce those frameworks, even though the thinking is there, like you know it, but what you haven't done is, is built out that narrative so that you don't necessarily have the tools to hand to be able to expand on them in conversation.

And that's a huge part of, of what we do.

And so the way that we build it when I work with clients is we sort of position it, we look at it as more of an ecosystem.

So we have that positioning concept in the middle, but then we build out from there.

And the idea is that, or it might even look like a spider's web, like the idea is that you've just got rings or concentric rings that sort of expand out and you know, you've got this that you can talk about here.

And actually one day you might go this ring and you might talk about this thing and you bring it back down and another day you might go over there.

Um, and everything feels really interesting and rich.

But it's all connected.

And so you're building this body of work that's full of very specific opinions and perspectives and drawn on facts and, and cultural issues and topical matters, and they stand alone, but they all connect back into the sort of the central positioning piece that you're known for, which in your case is the social media is optional.

Jules White: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's, that's really important actually, one, when you'd explained it to me, I think when we were talking about, I was thinking of it like spokes on a wheel.

So with that hub in the middle of the social media is optional.

And I can picture it in my brain right now, what we, what we mapped out, but the, it all comes back through that message and through, but through thread, through the different ideas.

But back to that fundamental principle that social media is optional.

Yeah.

And I think this is really relevant actually for another part, another one of the, the core things that I believe is that we create content.

I, firstly, I believe that we create content that we own first.

So you mentioned Substack there.

Content Strategy & SEO Foundations

Jules White: I would always say, let's get it back onto our own domains, but yes.

Um, but it's because I think, you know, dream big home, we kind of think all Substack is a way to then get in front of more people.

But actually, if you can really get that strong message on your own website, I believe that your website is the hub of your business and everything should come back to that.

Again, it's the, the spokes coming back to that message or that point, I think really.

But coming back to that, and then we, we don't have to do this all at once.

The other thing that I really believe is that we create content that has a purpose as well.

So we are not churning out content for the sake of it.

And this is something that's developing more.

I think the, i, this idea, I'm definitely leaning into this more than ever.

So businesses start with their core pages.

They get those set up, the pages that are closest to the sale.

If you're trying to make money from your business, then get those bits set up first and actually even weaving those core topics and that, that one idea, weaving that through those pages first and foremost, and then create some, some cornerstone pieces of content, as you mentioned, the thought leadership pieces of content.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

Jules White: And then you've got those webs to then expand on from there.

But you don't have to do it all at once.

And it, you never have to, as you say, never have to worry about running out of ideas because there's always things there that you can expand on.

But from an SEO point of view, what that also then helps with is that, is that thing of having this bank of content as well.

So ha especially if you are linking all of your, all of those things together as well, then the bots that crawl through your website can see all of that content linked together.

And yeah, I think that that's one of the strongest ways to make sure that website content is, is you're making the most of that content and the content is actually, um, showing that you, you've, you know, this topic inside and out.

So rather than just covering stuff at a very surface level, which is again, what AI content can, what AI can generate that kind of content, where there's a new term coming out now that's like commodity versus non-commodity content.

And commodity content is the stuff that any AI bot could create and anybody, you know, like the list of top tens and all of those kind of things that we've, we would've seen on blogs years ago.

Actually the non-commodity content is the stuff where it's, is your unique lived experience, I think as well, really.

So yeah, it's, it, it is so powerful, but it also does mean that we don't just have to churn that content out for the sake of it, I think. Really.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah, and I love that and one of the things that clients often come to me and say is, yeah, like, it sounds great, but like,

Finding Your Unique Perspective

Rebecca Mackay Miller: what if I don't actually have an opinion?

Like, what if I actually don't have something really unique to say and.

Or like they do, but they just think it's too distant from my work or, you know, it.

And once we start kind of going through this and actually pulling ideas out, you can almost see there's this like visceral, like exhale and like shoulders dropping or almost sort of like, oh, like wow.

Say, or like, and there's a sense of like belief and then relief actually that, that there is all that, that they've got this sort of wealth of rich ideas and perspectives within them.

And it's not that they were never there, but what they've never been able to do is organise them because they're too close to it.

And so because it's felt too complex or too messy or too scattered or whatever, they've defaulted to the, what should you call it?

The commodity type content.

Because you know, you've gotta get something out there, right?

You have to show up, you have to be visible.

Um, but to your point, but you're absolutely right.

It's about doing less of that and more of the stuff that's gonna make an impact.

And the way that you and I and everyone synthesises what we learn and what we experience and our expertise and how we move through the world, like no one else is gonna, even if people have had quite similar journeys or quite similar backgrounds or do something the same, no one is gonna synthesise that in the same way that you do.

No one is going to anchor that into a specific perspective or use a specific filter with which or lens with which to tell that story or share that point of view.

And I think.

Now more than ever, that's kind of all we've got going for us in this world.

It's where any idiot can spit out content

Jules White: and they can look like they know what they're doing.

They can look

Rebecca Mackay Miller: like, look, you know what's really sad is that they probably really do, they're not giving themselves a chance to actually share the richness that they hold because for whatever reason they're defaulting to AI.

Jules White: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

I think, um, I think it, we, it, there's lots of interesting conversations going on around AI and around how it maybe is it can be robbing us of that creativity and that, that that sort of, that creative, I dunno, like coming back to thought leadership I suppose really that just, that ability to get our ideas out of our head.

And actually I, I

AI's Impact on Creativity

Jules White: I created an episode about this.

Um, let me just have a look for which episode it was.

It was about, um, let me have a look.

Should have looked at this.

Um, episode 128 is Chat GPT Making You Doubt Yourself?

And I talked in that episode about how using AI too much for the kind of making like the thoughts, the thinking stuff.

I definitely am all for it, for getting rid of the, the work that you know, that and that, that you don't need to have your brain, you don't need to be the one thinking about it.

But actually, yeah, even that, just, just going back and forth with AI and relying on it to almost think for you, I think is a real dangerous point.

And I think we're at, at a point where the businesses that do keep hold of that creative power and keep hold of their own thoughts and their own unique opinions, then I think that you, it does help to strengthen your position moving forward.

I think really.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Of atrophy is, is real.

And I don't think it's only down to AI because I think it's been slowly happening for a long time.

But you think like scrolling and I remember reading something about how, like since we all started scrolling as opposed to sort of physically turning pages in a book.

Like we don't have that pause.

We where our, to give our brains a chance to actually sort of stop and process in any way.

It's just this constant stroll.

But I think that AI has accelerated that and you know, there have been times where the brain fog has been so real that I have found myself like in Claude being like, oh, what do you think of this?

Or what about that?

And then I have to step out and be like, no, because I don't know, recognise what I'm saying anymore.

Like this is like thinking, it steered this conversation and it steered it away from actually what I think.

And you have to be really boundaried with yourself.

But it's it hard because it's silently become second nature for so many people.

Um, and it, it, I think it is dangerous.

Jules White: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think

Rebecca Mackay Miller: not just from a standing out and a becoming over something point of view, but also for just like our mental capacity agility and

Jules White: yeah.

I get, I do wonder whether we are at the point where it feels like each generation has got, has, has, has got more educated over, you know, so more people are able, have been able to read and write than probably ever in human history.

And you do wonder if things will tip back the other way, especially with voice chats and things like that where they're actually, we are now at a point where future generations will become less literate and it's Yeah, it's, yeah.

It's, there's so much to it and it, it's, it's interesting.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: But there's also like, and this is one of the things that actually one of my clients really believes and it's, it's something that we are really building out with her.

Like she has this belief and it's just, it's it not even really a belief.

It's a fact that our, we are last generation that knows what it was like to exist without phones and this kind of technology.

And so we almost have this duty of care to fu to our kids and to future generations to.

Pass that on and to make that known.

Um, and that's a really, that feels like such a pivotal point in human history, doesn't it?

And it feel It's a lot.

It's like, God, yeah.

Like they look at our, my daughter's childhood and she is not on screens at all by any stretch of the imagination.

Like it's a very different world that she's growing up in, like so much.

She's eight and so much of her homework is online.

Jules White: Yeah,

Rebecca Mackay Miller: I know.

Like, I need to write a story at night, use a pencil.

Jules White: Yeah.

Sounding boring.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

Jules White: I can't even imagine growing up with this connected, like being connected.

I can't even imagine being at school and then being connected when you are outside of school as well.

I just think it must be really hard.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

Jules White: Yeah, I agree.

There's definitely something that I've found, like since I quit social media at the end of January, I've, uh, and I'm gonna do an episode in a couple of weeks about this, about, um, like your first 90 days outside of social media, it's like almost the, the detox after it.

So, but um, yeah, it's definitely been interesting.

I've read more books than I have over the last few years definitely.

And I feel like a lot of the noise in my head has, has quieted down.

Cool.

So I think, um, yeah, again, having this and having that philosophy there and really sticking my flag in the sand around it has, has been so helpful for me, really.

And

Women & Thought Leadership

Jules White: I think probably for women in particular, and one of the things that we explored when we were chatting was about this, the feminism thread running through what I do as well.

And I definitely don't feel I've explored that anywhere near as much as I want to.

But do you feel like for women in particular, it's this, this sort of thought leadership and this standing out and almost sticking your head above the sand and believing in something is, is harder for us?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: I do.

I do.

And, and for a plethora of reasons.

I mean, there's the, the sort of the obvious one I guess, which is that this route hasn't been available for us to hundreds and hundreds, thousands of years.

You know, this intellect, this thinking, this writing, this storytelling, all of it was very much the, the realm of men.

And it wasn't for men.

And you see that through history with brilliant female authors who.

Sold their workers or, or pushed their work under male names and you know it.

Or

Jules White: a lady?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: A lady.

Exactly.

The famous a lady.

Um, and.

It still happens in the workplace today.

Right.

Women are still undermined and overruled.

And, um, we've had this very strong narrative that's been instilled, which is stay quiet.

Jules White: Mm-hmm.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Don't make a fu Don't

Jules White: stand out.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Don't stand.

Yeah, exactly.

And you know, that narrative is changing of course, but it's still so internalised for many of us, I think.

And I think we're all at a point in our lives, and many of my clients are at a point in their lives where they've hit midlife and suddenly they're like, and why?

No, actually, I, they, they have this recognition that they followed a path that was perhaps not, not necessarily chosen by them consciously.

Um, and now they're at the point where they're like, perhaps they started their own businesses.

Maybe they started their business a few years ago, but still kind of followed the rules a little bit and did it the way it was supposed to be done.

Um, and suddenly they're like, no, I've got all these ideas.

I've got all these thoughts, and they are screaming to come out and I am just done.

Holding them in.

But then what happens is the perfectionist rears its head and it's like, but I can't, I'm, there's, there's almost like an unsurety, like, I need to be sure on this.

I need to have this argument really well written.

I need to be really clear on what point I'm trying to make and you know, how I'm trying to articulate it and what I'm trying to say and who I'm trying to say it to before I voiced it.

And so it still goes unsaid.

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Um, and I think there's a fear isn't there, of raising your head above the parapet.

You know, women are trolled, women are attacked, women are sexually abused in comments sections on online, you know, it's awful.

Like, it's awful what can happen.

So I think it's a frightening place to be, but it's also vital that we put ourselves out there because we are paving the way for the future generations.

Right?

Yeah.

It's, it's, nothing changes if nothing changes.

And that change has to come from the field up.

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Because it's not coming from the top down fast.

Jules White: No, definitely not.

I definitely had some feelings around that when I created the series after I'd spoken to you and I created some that series, a couple of the episodes brought those feelings up for me of, oh, I, I dunno that I should be talking about this.

I'm not enough an, an expert.

Like on the episode on how the algorithm silences women, I was like, oh, I'm not sure I have enough evidence

Rebecca Mackay Miller: of it.

And I remember in our session, you were really unsure on that and we had to spend some time on it because you were like, oh, I don't really know about that, or I need some more stats before I can talk about that.

I need to do this.

And I was like, do you know what?

Like it's actually fine.

Like if you feel like you need more stats to substantiate it, that's fine, because that creates a, a broader, richer narrative and opinion and argument in case.

But so often we let that stop us.

Jules White: Yeah.

And I can go back and expand on that topic later.

I haven't, I haven't revisited it part probably partly for that reason, but I'm glad that I've at least got that episode out there.

Yes.

And when I listened back to it, it was like, actually, yeah, I'm not claiming to be an expert on this.

I'm just saying, you know, just raising the, the, uh, topic.

And actually it does relate to all of the other things as well, really.

So, yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: And actually that's an amazing point about not trying to be the expert.

And I think that once, and this is a reframe that often comes with this work because it's quite easy, not easy, it feels safer to hide behind the deliverables.

If you do this, you will get this.

And I think sometimes people do it, whereas sharing, but then also there's the fear of being expert.

Whereas when you start sharing opinions, it's like, oh God, I'm really putting myself out here.

But the reframe that needs to come with that is.

But by sharing this opinion and this belief, like inherently, it's not necessarily true.

I don't, it's not not true, but it's your lens, it's your perspective.

It's how you've synthesised that information.

And so rather than needing to be an expert or feel like you're claiming to have all the answers, it's, it's seeing is a, is a contribution.

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Like this is just me contributing to that conversation, contributing to the wider narrative, like connecting dots that maybe people have seen before, but perhaps they haven't, or perhaps my people haven't.

Jules White: Yeah, absolutely.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: And if you can see everything as that little contribution, it takes the pressure away.

Jules White: Yeah, it does actually.

Yeah.

Definitely.

And then even just linking to, I'm just thinking from a website point of view and a blog point of view, even just then linking out to the places that helped me to form that opinion.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yes.

Jules White: Even simple things like that can help to reinforce the fact that you have done a little bit of research.

You've, I've, you know, I've not just had AI generate this for me.

Yeah.

I've been out there, I've had conversations and the, those are the kind of, um, things that actually if you c if you are the person out there doing the research, you, like you did your, um, research with founders.

If you, I dunno if you have you created any piece of content around that, but if you did, if you had spoken to a certain amount of founders and you created a piece of content, I know, I know FFR do their founder report, don't they?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

Jules White: If we can create that kind of stuff, and it doesn't have to be massive, um, vast studies Oh,

Rebecca Mackay Miller: sorry, is

Jules White: no.

Yeah.

But we can, if we can generate that something that actually shows we've done our research Yeah.

Then that can be really helpful.

It can be helpful for, um, people linking into our website and also just in increase, like showing a bit more that we've actually done our diligence rather than just using AI to generate something really.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yeah.

It, it adds depth, doesn't it?

De And it, it shows definitely that, um, there is a.

Uh, yeah, like a depth to the, to the opinion.

And I also think on the flip side of that, yes, it can help having that sort of data and that, that insight, but then there's also something that I feel, and this my side, it'd be at odds with the specific conversation we are having, but I also really believe that we've massively outsourced our own sense of knowing to data.

Yes.

And you know, one of the beliefs that really underpins my business is that intuition and in knowing should override external data and analysis every time.

And so I think it's about finding the balance, isn't it?

And often the inner knowing piece and the perspectives and the philosophies come first, and it's like, actually, I inherently know this to be true.

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: To me, I inherently know this to be true, but before I take it out into the world

to gather some additional insight or validate it or whatever.

And, and for some people that's, that's brilliant.

But I don't always think that clients need to do that because again, then sometimes you are, you are just relying on that external validation rather than leading with what you inherently believe to be true.

Um, because that's the, that's the heart of your thought leadership.

Jules White: Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

I think that's really important actually for positioning as well.

And that's something that, that in itself can help you to stand out in, in this context, stand out in search.

If you are giving the alternative view, then that that's, yeah.

Yeah.

Not a bad thing to do.

And especially if you do, especially if you already have demonstrated that you are an expert or you know, an expert in this in terms of your, you've, you've demonstrated that you already have some knowledge on this or you've already put some thought into this, and then you have your unique experience and your unique perspective on it.

Even if it is, it does go against the, I guess a bit like the social media is optional thing.

A big part of my messaging with that is that we've been sold this lie, we've been sold this lie that you cannot have a successful business without social media.

So Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's

Rebecca Mackay Miller: contrarian.

Jules White: You have

Being Contrarian to Stand Out

Rebecca Mackay Miller: to be a little bit contrarian, I think to stand, to stand out because you have to, like you said earlier, you have to put your flag around,

Jules White: yes, this

Rebecca Mackay Miller: is stand for, and actually not everyone is gonna stand for this and that's fine.

Like how boring well be.

We all said the same thing.

Yeah.

Um, so I think being contrarian

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Is really important.

And I often, I'm doing the exercise when I'm teaching this or when I'm doing this with my clients, I'm like, okay, you've done this sort of the first version of your opinions.

Like what's the, like what's the really extreme, like what's the version of that belief that makes your skin prickle a little bit, or what's the rated version of, because that's actually get the skin of what you really think because without noticing it, we do.

Slim, like we do put this like vanilla filter, don't we?

Over our beliefs and opinion sometimes just to make it feel a bit safer or a bit more palatable.

And actually it's like, no, like what's the most extreme version of this?

Like what do you actually think?

What are you gonna scream about in an ordinary drunk or like talk to someone in the toilet at 5:00 AM about like, what's that version like?

That's the version that we kind of wanna start with.

And you know, the exact wording of that might not be what goes on your website of it.

It needs to be what comes through because otherwise.

You're not being the most, the most version of yourself.

That's not articulated very well, but do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I know.

Jules White: I, I

Rebecca Mackay Miller: know what you mean.

We've got a, and often like when I'm doing this exercise, I kind of say to clients, you sort of need to put your, almost kind of view this like, yeah, your expertise, your credibility or the qualifications or the clients or you know, whatever.

All the stuff that gives you your credibility, gives you your edge.

Like that's sort of a bit of a tick box exercise for now.

Like, we've got that.

Okay.

That's sort of the base level that clients expect to work with you, that you've got this base level credibility.

It's almost like run for the course now because there are hundreds, thousands of people that do what we do, and most of us have at this stage a similar level, similar level of experience or water.

It's the lens that you look at it through.

Mm-hmm.

Jules White: Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: That's what's gonna make you stand out.

Jules White: Absolutely.

Definitely.

How to Get Started: Practical Exercise

Jules White: So if somebody is thinking about getting started with this, what's the, what's the best way to start?

Like if you've got no idea how to even get started, what's the best thing to do?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: So the exercise that I always share is to,

is if you are gonna do a giant game of noughts and crosses.

So like two lines across.

Two lines down.

And set a timer for about six, seven minutes.

And in each of those boxes, just write a belief or a philosophy or a hot take or something that you believe to be true about your industry, about your community, about your clients, about the culture we exist in, about the world we live in.

It can be politicised, it can be very spiritual, it could be really centred in kindness or you know, it can be anything.

But just try and not overthink it.

Write as many things down as you can.

Then give yourself a minute, have a drink, whatever, draw another grid and then do the X-rated version and give yourself permission to be like, okay, no one's gonna remember that.

If I say that in a networking room, what's the version of that that someone's thinking about when they wake up the next morning?

And just start there.

And what, once you've done that, just have a look through and you might find that there are some real threads that are a bit, that are beginning to emerge.

And those threads might be a, it might be, um, an interest that actually you're like, do you know what all of these opinions they were first formed when I was doing this thing, looking after horses, crafting, hiking.

I dunno, it might be that there is a real sense of activism that actually comes through that.

It might be that there's some rage, there's usually rage, there's usually a lot of anger that comes through.

It might, you might be like, do you know what curiosity is a real thread here.

And so just try to identify the kind of the thread and then just start to begin to paint a picture of like, okay, do these different things.

So I've got these different beliefs.

There's this thread here that actually, let's say it's curiosity, for example, that's what's in my head.

Let's say that curiosity or connection to nature or whatever is the thread that's coming through that.

Now I'm gonna look at the different things I do in my work, my group programmes, my memberships, the consulting I do in corporate, my art, whatever it is.

I'm like, oh actually maybe I apply that lens of curiosity or that lens of nature as the blueprint or whatever it is to all of my work.

So there's a thread that I can see here now, and almost once you can identify what that thread is, you don't need to immediately do the work of crafting that into a beautiful positioning platform or you know, messaging.

It can be like, okay, well how can I just weave curiosity as a starting point through my content?

How can I actually let clients know that this is.

Part of the approach and just look at the sort of easy ways that you can weave it in and build it from there.

But there's, there's always a thread.

Jules White: Fantastic.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: And if you can't uncover the thread, then work with someone else to do it because it, so

Jules White: who could, who could we work with to do that then

Rebecca Mackay Miller: maybe me.

Um, but it's really hard to do this work on our own because even though this thread exists, and actually when I work with clients, so much of what comes out isn't revelation.

It's recognition.

Jules White: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: We are not really coming up with something new.

We're just piecing the puzzle together in a way that they hadn't previously seen.

And like the feedback that I get from clients more than anything else is that I see what they're not yet brave enough to articulate.

Jules White: Yeah.

Yeah.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Absolutely.

So it's there.

I just see it and give words to it before they're able to, and often that's all we need.

Jules White: Yeah, absolutely.

That's definitely, um, how I would describe it from how we work together.

Definitely.

Yeah.

It was there.

It's always been there as a running thread, even way before I started the podcast.

I think I, um, I'm a member of the Female Entrepreneur Association as well, and the way that I found that was I searched for a, like, can you grow your business without social media?

And one of Carrie Green's YouTube videos came up.

It's like, I realised that was way back at the beginning of my business that, that, that thread was always there.

Really?

So, and

Rebecca Mackay Miller: that's an example

Jules White: together

Rebecca Mackay Miller: of, 'cause often people then say to me, well, how, if I've got this thread, like, how do I use it?

And I'm like, well, that's a story.

That's a story that you can say, this thread has always been part of me.

Wait.

Like, you know, that's a piece of content.

You know, that's a, that's, you know, there the, all these stories and anecdotes that once you identify the threads, you can trace back through your lives and through your jobs and through your experience and be like, oh my God, that it showed up there.

That's a story I can tell God it showed up there.

Yeah, I can, I can talk about that.

Jules White: Yeah, definitely.

Amazing.

So

How to Work with Rebecca

Jules White: if somebody does wanna work with you, then how can they get in touch?

Where can they find you?

Rebecca Mackay Miller: So on LinkedIn is probably where I am reluctant, although actually I'm taking a slight hiatus.

So leave out of your book actually, just to be like, okay, what happens if I'm not really on LinkedIn?

Um, or my website, which is um, blocandrose.com

Jules White: blockandrose.com.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Fantastic.

Jules White: Yes.

I always love it when people do actually share the content that they own as well.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Oh my God.

Don't say social media.

Jules White: No, you can say I definitely see the social media is optional, but I do love it when people say, well, you can find me at my website firsthand.

That's

Rebecca Mackay Miller: the better place that I feel like the website is a truer representation of.

Jules White: Oh yeah, of course.

And because you control it and because you can, you know, you can send people there and you own it as well.

I think that's the amazing, yes.

Yeah, definitely.

So then this,

Closing Remarks & Outro

Jules White: this has been such, um, a great conversation.

I knew it would.

Thank you for joining me here and I hope that it's been helpful for those listening.

I think just remember that social media is optional, but standing out against the AI generated content isn't, and I think this is the way to stand out.

This is gonna make such a massive difference, really.

So yeah, make sure you reach out to Rebecca, say hi, let her know you've heard, heard her on this podcast episode and yes,

Rebecca Mackay Miller: please do.

Jules White: Yeah, fantastic.

Thank you so much for being here.

And Rebecca, before we do leave, can you just remind us again what you do?

So just quick, your 60-second pitch or whatever, it's just let us know again.

Rebecca Mackay Miller: Yes.

So I work with brilliant, multi-passionate, multifaceted founders who might have a million different strings to their bow and are exhausted or exasperated perhaps.

We're trying to market different versions of the, of themselves, become known for the one big, brilliant ownable idea or philosophy that connect everything that they do.

And so they can stop having to show up as different versions of themselves and just step into this.

Identity, I guess, of this is who I am, this is what I believe, and I do this.

But really we do it without having to niche, without having to undermine any of your message.

Can't believe that's the first time I've said not having to niche messages.

Jules White: Oh, fantastic.

Oh, thank you so much.

And if you need any help or if you've, if you've already worked with Rebecca and you need any help in actually translating those messages onto things that people are actually searching for, then you can always reach out to me.

We can have a chat about what's missing from your website and what you can, how you can use this unique positioning to help you to show up on Google as well.

So thank you so much for listening.

Thanks for being here, Rebecca, and I'll see you soon.

Bye.