DIGITAL MARKETING SYSTEMS: Sydney Sweeney Controversy, Creative Campaign Backlash, and Different Business Models (Ep. 006)

Brands are getting roasted, creators are getting hate, and still your business needs systems to survive the chaos. We break down the latest drama and how to stay consistent when the internet feels like it’s on fire.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why inspiration is overrated (and what your content actually needs instead)
• The real reason the Sydney Sweeney x American Eagle ad flopped — and what Abercrombie + Old Navy did right
• A mindset shift that helps you handle hate, trolls, and online backlash without spiraling

Timestamps:
03:20 – Why your business problems are system problems
06:15 – Creatives vs. structure: can you thrive inside a system?
12:00 – Brand backlash: how Abercrombie + Old Navy clapped back at American Eagle
17:00 – Sydney Sweeney, Dunkin’ ads, and marketing's obsession with “good genes”
34:00 – When trolls attack: neutralizing hate online without losing your mind
45:00 – Final reminder: your business ≠ your worth

References & Resources:

• Sydney Sweeney
• American Eagle
• Ralph Lauren Oak Bluffs ad

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Transcript

Ep. 006: DIGiTAL MARKETING SYSTEMS: Sydney Sweeney Controversy, Creative Campaign Backlash, and Different Business Models (Ep. 006)

[00:00:00]

Joanna Newton: Welcome back to the Click Tease podcast. Today we're going to be digging in into some of the aftermath that came about after the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle controversy. We're also gonna be talking about implementing systems in your business to have really successful outcomes for what you do, and talking about what to do when you get hate online. Hi, my name is Joanna and I'm the co-founder of Millennial Marketer, an agency that helps creators build their own digital products.

Michelle Pualani: And I'm Michelle, founder of To Be Honest Beverage Company or a non-alcoholic functional spirit brand, as well as business mentor and consultant for personal brands and marketing strategy. Let's dive in

Joanna Newton: I am excited to chat today with you about all things marketing. We had a big week last week, a lot going on. Uh, but before we get into the meat of what we're gonna talk about today, I'll be sharing what I'm drinking today. I'm drinking my very kind of boring, usual sugar, oat milk, ice latte, [00:01:00] homemade, cheaper than Starbucks. Because I'm not, I'm using glass and all of that. so that is what I'm drinking today. While we.

Michelle Pualani: Love it. I am super basic today. I'm drinking my mushroom drink, got some unsweetened almond milk trying to reduce my sugar intake right now, which is really challenging. You know, I'm good with like, okay, no gluten, no cow dairy. Like I can cut out a lot of different things, but no sugar is actually really challenging 'cause sugar is in so many things.

And also I like sweet stuff. So like that's been kind of tough, but super simple. Mushroom drink this morning, nice and easy.

Joanna Newton: Sugar is really tough. Sugar is really tough, and I don't think, I don't think I've shared this on the podcast, but I've had. Quite some with my personal home right now, which is making eating really complicated. I had a power surge in my house, which completely fried my refrigerator, [00:02:00] and I've had no refrigerator for like three and a half weeks now.

So we bought like a small. Chest freezer that's in our basement and we're using as a refrigerator till our Fri refrigerator comes, which is coming on Friday. But can I tell you, I'm so busy and I'm running in between things. It's really hard to eat. Healthily when I'm not, when I'm out of system, because if I wanted to run out to my fridge and grab something, I'd have hard boiled eggs or like something healthy that I could just kind of grab and eat in between meetings.

But when it's downstairs and I have less stuff, because I don't have the space, it's very challenging.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, not having the system set up can be really, really difficult. I mean, I think that's true in any aspect of our lives, right? When I came from Healthy habit formation and fitness, it wasn't about willpower or determination or commitment or your ability to actually motivate to do [00:03:00] something. It was about systems.

It was about setting up ways of life and ways of being that allowed you to just do the thing without having to think about it. And so when you think about food, it's very similar when you think about business, it's super similar. When you think about marketing, it's really similar. I was giving a workshop recently to a women's business group and this conversation came up.

Well, I. Struggle with the inspiration. I dunno how to get motivated. And I'm like, well, sorry, you, you shouldn't rely on that. Like there is something to be said about the feminine intuition and guidance to be able to allow yourself to be open to, oh, I feel really inspired by this type of content. Right now I really wanna talk about this topic.

Like this is something that I really care about. I'm very passionate about it and I wanna share it. But ultimately, that should be entirely supported by systems for consistency, regularity. And there's been a couple quotes from successful writers, comedic comedians, um, artists of all kinds that inspiration [00:04:00] tends to show up when I show up consistently to write or to act or to create or to draw or to whatever it is.

And so a lot of people think that. You know, the successful creators, the successful business owners, the founders, they're all working off of inspiration and motivation and discipline to show up and do the thing, and, but it comes from this like. Magical place It, it doesn't like anything that I hear from a successful personal development business like creative is because they've shown up with consistency.

Now, it doesn't always look the same when they show up, but I'm finding that with my content creation challenge right now is that the more that I do it, the better I get at the systems and the efficiency of it. And so now I'm always kind of in the mode of. Content creation and marketing and positioning.

And the more I get out, the more feedback I get and the [00:05:00] more that I can say, oh, okay, this is the type of content that is working for people, or this is the type of feedback that I get in this setting. Okay, awesome. Now let me change it. Let me do it differently. Let me do this thing. It's, it's part of the process.

So I think having the systems in any setting and context is super important.

Joanna Newton: And I think we kind of want it to not be a systems problem. I think there's a part of us that want like a magic pill that's gonna make your content take off or make your business make money. And we want this sort of. Big secret. That's gonna be the saving grace of whatever problem you're facing, but whether, whether you're trying to like drive more traffic to your website or grow on social media or bring in more sales or create something. The secret is hard work and consistency, and it would be really nice if, right, just some sort of like magic, fancy strategy, fix everything. But there's a reality that whatever you're [00:06:00] trying to do, if you show up every day and do it, you're gonna make progress on that thing. One of the things that I, live and thrive on systems and I would be a very stressed out person if I don't have systems.

And one of the things early in my marketing career that I realized is. As you're like climbing the corporate ladder, you have this idea of like, well, I'm gonna understand why my boss is so stressed. Once I move up one level, I'm gonna understand why my boss is so stressed and overwhelmed when I move up the next level.

But as I moved up in the corporate world, I just created systems and I was a true believer that nothing in marketing is really an emergency, like in public relations. There are, there are emergencies, but generally speaking, marketing doesn't have emergencies. And when you create systems for when you're gonna send emails, when you're going to post on social media, when you're going to do things and you then you create systems for the creation of of those types of [00:07:00] pieces of content, whether it's a new webpage or an email or a social post.

They should all have a process they follow you have those systems. When there are quote unquote emergencies or things you have to respond quickly to or do you come back to those systems, you can say, okay, when we create an email, here's step one, step two, step three, step four. You still follow that system but can get it out more quickly because you have a system in place.

So sort of argument I hear against people who are, who are very. Anti-system as they say, like, oh, I can't be creative within a system, but that system is what's gonna make you money. And then your creativity on top of that is gonna get you to the next level. And I think that's something that I wish people really understood.

Those systems, like sustain their business, their wild creativity, when on top of a business with really strong systems, those are the ones that skyrocket [00:08:00] right.

Michelle Pualani: Absolutely. It also opens up way more space for creativity when you don't have to think about when, how, why. It's about decision fatigue, like decision fatigue is a real thing, right? We only can make so many decisions during the day. And a lot of people start out and they think, especially if you're a solopreneur or business owner and you don't have a consistent regular schedule, which honestly, I actually very much struggle with this and have tried to work out a better approach.

So I empathize with anyone out there who's listening and feeling like. Well, I just can't have the same daily consistent schedule. I'm like, I don't have the same daily consistent schedule. No one day looks exactly the same for me. And that's how it works for me, because I crave change and newness, and I wanna have strategy and systems and automations underneath me to support my business, but I don't like doing them.

And so it's important for me to either hire on consultants or team members who can help with that process. Or figure out, [00:09:00] you know, systems like using AI underneath me that I don't have to actively work on change, adjust, or create as I'm working. But having that structure gives you freedom, and I think that's something that I re rebelled against in the beginning as well when I started doing my own business work online especially, is because I felt like, oh, well I want freedom to be able to do whatever I want whenever I want.

And now it's funny ' cause I'm actually in a place where that is like the truth from a scheduling perspective, but I actually want more structure now than ever because I think I value structure more than ever. And I see the importance of the systems and I see the importance of having that flow through the execution process.

It's this. Podcasts that we do every single week. Like if we didn't have the systems, if we didn't have the execution, it wouldn't get out on a weekly basis and we wouldn't have this marketing platform and we wouldn't [00:10:00] have a chance to reach people at all different levels. And so. You know, especially as I'm working with experts, authorities, service providers, they get stuck on this idea of like, oh, marketing is so hard.

Marketing is so challenging. I can't do marketing. I can't talk that way. Oh, it's so much work. And it's like, actually there are very simple systems that you can set up for yourself in the way that works for you. That will help support grow your business over time. And then you just run those systems. Now when it comes to actually executing on it, right, because you can set aside the time.

You can say, okay, I'm gonna create during this time, I'm gonna write during this time. I'm gonna publish during this time. I'm gonna help my clients during this time. And I do know that there can be some real difficulty with showing up for those things and actually following through. So I think that takes.

A deeper dive in conversation with yourself to figure out and discover what's holding me back from this? What is the belief about this thing? What's my [00:11:00] perception of this thing and why am I struggling to execute on it? And then that's like a deeper conversation, and I think that has a lot to do with limiting beliefs and perception and how you kind of.

Interpret the thing that you have to do. You know, whether it's like, oh, this is such a chore, or I don't really understand this, or I never know what to say, then it's like, okay, then you can uncover the next step of, okay, well if you don't know what to say, what's it gonna take in order to get that? Do you need to prepare your hooks in advance?

Do you need to do research? Like what are the things? And I think people get stuck at that shallow level of like, oh, well, I'm just not doing it. I'm like, okay, great. Well then why are you not doing it? Like, let's uncover that process. So I think it's approachable from many different angles, but I know we kinda wanna follow up on some of the marketing things that are happening right now, and of course over the past week.

So Joanna, where do you wanna start with that conversation?

Joanna Newton: Well, I think it would be really interesting for us to dive in a little [00:12:00] bit about the response we're seeing to the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle ad. So in our last episode, we dove in kind of deep about, um. just specifically the controversy surrounding the American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney ad.

And one of the things that happened really since we filmed that episode is a lot of brands started to respond. So both Abercrombie and. Old Navy responded very, very quickly with ad campaigns, which is really interesting to watch. Old Navy came out with a slogan that said, these jeans are the, are the genes your other jeans warned you about, which I thought was a really kind of fun, cheeky response. And Abercrombie came out with an ad campaign showing like. A group of very diverse models when it came to skin tones, body sizes, and all of that saying denim should feel like this. So we see kind of two brands responding to what, [00:13:00] American Eagle put out kind of saying. We're, we're the other ones, right?

Like we're for everyone. We are going to be a brand that kind of stays in the Bos body positivity movement stays in the kind of open for all movement, which was really cool to see. Um, especially with, I'm not sure if you caught this, Michelle, but. The White House and President Trump specifically has spoken in support of the American Eagle and Sydney Sweeney ad saying that people who have disagreed with it or or have issue with it are the problem.

And then that brands who have woke ads. Really need to change their ways, which is like a really interesting thing to see in our country where like speech has been a big part of who we are as a country for the president to come out and say like, Hey, if you didn't like that ad, or if you make ads that [00:14:00] are quote unquote woke, your. Part of the problem. So watching the aftermath I think is maybe even more interesting than even the controversy of itself, and it's kind of dying down. People are talking about it less, but we're still seeing like the ripple effects of what happened in the conversation from last week.

Michelle Pualani: Did you see Sydney Sweeney's response?

Joanna Newton: I didn't see her response. What did she say?

Michelle Pualani: I, I worked really hard to try to find it. I haven't seen, this is the tough part about social media and marketing and our media as a whole right now that really frustrates me is I don't know what I can trust anymore because there's so much deep fake content that's being created. Especially even like with President Obama, I've seen like deep fake content, um, of these AI avatars that are being created.

After popular people or celebrities. And so I, I genuinely can't always trust what I see [00:15:00] in just like one place if it's in multiple places and repeated. So I really had to search for Sydnee Sweeney. The thing that I saw was basically her like mascara. I like cry, having crying. It's like her laid on her couch and she's just holding the phone like very casual.

Joanna Newton: that's an old clip.

Michelle Pualani: Is it?

Joanna Newton: think it's an old I I, 'cause I went down that rabbit hole. It, I could be wrong, but I think that's an old clip from like a past thing. And I don't think that that's directly related to this ad. I think it's an old thing,

Michelle Pualani: Okay, so that's the thing is like.

Joanna Newton: sure.

Michelle Pualani: There wasn't any context in the video. She just was saying like, I'm a person. I'm just sitting here, kind of thing. So that's the thing is like I didn't know what it was in reference to, but of course it's being promoted as the response to this campaign. So I haven't been able to see anything in particular other than like an [00:16:00] AI voice overlay of Sydney Sweeney responds to the campaign, da da, da da, and I just can't even listen to that.

But it'll be interesting to see, like I'd love to hear, and I'd love to see what is the feedback, what is the response from American Eagle right now? What is, what are they actually saying and what are they putting out as well as Sydney Sweeney now? I think it's been really interesting over the past week because there are two other campaigns that I've seen predominate during this time that are slightly related, or at least being held in comparison.

I did a video on Ralph Lauren's Oak Bluffs campaign. And then I didn't even wanna talk about this. I did two videos that were structured in terms of like talking about the neuro-marketing principles and why these types of campaigns work, independent of the controversy and the backlash, and independent of the political inclinations, the racial divide, like all those types of things.

And they performed well on social media, but they're really not [00:17:00] like the direction that I wanna go with my content. You get the comments, you got the interactions, you get the conversations. And I, and I do actually wanna talk about this today, is how you present, respond, and engage with people online that doesn't just promote.

Argumentation that actually promotes like a healthy conversation. So we can chat about that in a little bit. But doing this type of content really allowed me to kinda like dive into this. And so I don't know if you saw the Dunkin Donuts commercial with, I think, I think the actor's name is Gavin something, but he pay plays Jeremiah in the summer.

I turned pretty.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, I

Michelle Pualani: Did you see? Did you, you saw it.

Joanna Newton: I saw the ad and it came out

Michelle Pualani: Okay.

Joanna Newton: time as the Sydney Sweeney ad.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, so then you see TikTok just like, go down. I just, social media is such a funny place to me, but everyone was then responding. Not [00:18:00] everyone, but a ton of people are like, really Dunking Donuts genetics. Like, you had to put this out right now, and then everyone else is like, oh my God, it's fricking Dunkin Donuts.

Joanna Newton: ad though. Like, like the thing what with that ad, and I know a lot of people have varying opinions on this ad, I. Like why, like, watching it, least from my perspective, it feels less harmful and less intentional than the Sydnee Sweeney ad. But like why be like, I'm tan because of my, I just think that was like such a weird thing to put in an ad.

Like why is it even there?

Michelle Pualani: Well, the name of the drink, right, is like summer something. It's like Golden Summer. I think that's the name of the drink, right?

Joanna Newton: But like say like I get a golden tan. Like why bring up genetics? I just think that's weird. I think

Michelle Pualani: I don't know.

Joanna Newton: Like it was a

Michelle Pualani: I think, well, [00:19:00] because overall, I think from a marketing perspective, what the approach is meant to do is basically feature good looking people and just say like, this is just how I am and who I am. Like this is just genetics. This is just part of. Me, I, I think that it's tough because the conversation around the Sydney Sweeney ad.

Going into the eugenic side of things is, it's not to say that genetics has not been referred to in plenty of ads in different contexts. Now, that ad could have easily been done with any, without any copy, without any voiceover of Sydney Sweeney, and then having that, like what sound, you know, like the man of.

Sidney Sweeney has great genes, and it was like so abrupt and so abrasive. At the end of each of the videos, Sidney Sweeney has great genes over and over and I don't know, just there were so many things about that campaign that [00:20:00] even, again, not from like a political or racial perspective, we're just not.

As thoughtful as I feel like it could have been, especially, and I think the biggest issue with that campaign was really the lack of authenticity and trueness to the brand of American Eagle, and I think that is one of the biggest reasons why it'll ultimately be a negative impact on the brand. It made money at first, the campaign totally worked.

Yeah.

Joanna Newton: the.

Michelle Pualani: Well also. If you look at the stock and like, like I looked at some of the things, so I looked at some of the revenue numbers, I looked at the valuation, I looked at the stocks, which like I'm not a big financial person in the stocks realm, so. I, that's not like a strong suit of mine, but if you even just look at like over time and the valuation like Ralph Lauren versus something like American Eagle, where Ralph Lauren already does like [00:21:00] 1.3 ish times annual revenue.

Their valuation though is about nine x and their stock comparison. At the time I was looking at it, American Eagle was sitting around around like $10 or something like that, or 10 something. Um, and, uh. Ralph Lauren is like over 200. So just the comparison of the brands is very, very different. But the Oak Bluffs ad, some of the things that I highlighted about that now there was of course backlash from the black community because they felt like it was elitist, classist, that it didn't represent all black people, which I think is kind of from my personal perspective, humorous in and of itself because it's tough.

When you look at the historical implications of race in this country, there are so many challenges and different directions. You can take the conversation, but with the conversation around what someone would call like black excellence. And black people doing really well. [00:22:00] So you're talking about like athletics and celebrities and politicians, and you're looking at like HB HBUs and HBCs as historically backed colleges or universities that have created an environment for education.

For success, for political involvement, for wealth building, for growth. That's a segment of the black population. Now, not all black people associate with being in that way. The thing is, is that there are a lot of Ivy League schools that are predominantly, maybe not predominantly white, but have a huge white history as well.

And I don't, I didn't go to an Ivy league. I grew up under the poverty line. I consider myself majority white, even though I have a mixed background and I don't look at ads. From like Hugo Boss or Prada or Versace, or name the [00:23:00] brand Ralph Lauren of white people and say, that's elitist. That's classist because it's just a different, like there are always gonna be different segments of the society and our culture that appeal to mass quantity, like low cost.

Middle class, a little bit higher, et cetera, and then you have like luxury, and that's capitalism. We, we don't live in a society where there's equity across brands and across. Products and across people. We live in a society where you can make a certain amount of money to live a certain type of lifestyle.

And just because there's a, this be what I consider to be a beautiful campaign that comes out, that represents now, I've never, I didn't, I've never heard of. Oak Bluffs. I've heard of Martha Vineyards. I've never been there. I've never been to this area. I've never been, I've, I didn't go to an Ivy. I'm not [00:24:00] black, but I can watch something like that campaign and I feel a sense of admiration, pride, and legacy, because that was what was communicated.

Through the actual campaign and the marketing that they presented. So it's kind of almost a disappointment to see black communities who respond to that type of demonstration of a black lifestyle that doesn't fit their model of the world.

Joanna Newton: And that's the, the reality with these advertisements or any media or any movies or anything that we consume, is that. Things get a reaction, right? And, and you might watch the ad and react one way. Another community is gonna watch the ad and react another way. And the reality is, is they're actually all valid, right?

Like I can watch the Sydney Sweeney ad have my thoughts and opinions. Someone else can have their thoughts and opinions. What's tough is when someone says, your opinion is. [00:25:00] Wrong or invalid

Michelle Pualani: Yeah.

Joanna Newton: White House did with all of us who have some issues with the American Eagle ad. So brands are connect with people like that, right?

And we talk, we've talked on this podcast, you get attention by taking a stand, by by being specific, right? Some people aren't gonna like you, and that's okay. So

Michelle Pualani: Yeah.

Joanna Newton: campaigns have to get a reaction, and as a brand you get to pick what you want. My husband said a really interesting thing about, 'cause we shopped at American Eagle. Um, it was never my favorite store, but it was like, for me, a great place to be like, I need t-shirts, or like, I'm looking for a hoodie or like a good basics option. My husband now said, he's like, you know what? Even if they apologized at this point, like. I'm not gonna throw out all of my American Eagle clothes, but he's like, I kind of don't wanna be associated with that brand.

That brand doesn't fit me anymore. Whether they did [00:26:00] anything wrong or right. Like if they're going in that direction, that doesn't fit me and my lifestyle anymore. So like I don't wanna represent them. And so there's a reality that we have to connect with brands and I think why? I think why I personally am kind of like passionate about showing body positivity and diversity and you know, people of all skin tones, living all types of life lifestyles is because I really do think it impacts us and I think it impacts how we interact with the world.

And for me as a business owner, I wanna put things out that, into the world that do things positively for people. And one really good example of this, we talked about K-pop demon hunters like a couple weeks ago in that movie, like my daughter is obsessed along with a lot of the world, with K-pop demon hunters, and you think, oh, it's just a cute movie on Netflix. now she wants to [00:27:00] try Korean food, she wants to listen to. Other Korean music. She wants to learn. She wants to go to Korea. She wants to kind of learn their history. Now, her mind, because of this film, which which is rooted in Korean culture, she's now opening her mind to other things, and that is like. If you make really great ads and really great content, you can open people's minds up to new possibilities instead of closing them down, or you can create content. That them think narrow, more narrow and, and what do you like, what do you wanna do as a creator? Do you wanna help people like open their minds and see possibilities and expand and grow? Or do you wanna help them keep a narrow worldview? You have a choice as a brand, right? And, and you're gonna attract different customers based on what content you put out.

Michelle Pualani: You know, I, I'm, I'm [00:28:00] seeing a lot of conversations around this of like, okay, well, if she wasn't white, blonde hair, blue eyed, how would this campaign have gone? Or would it have the same intention, the same feel? There's nothing wrong with Sydney Swee. Sydney Sweeney.

Joanna Newton: Sydnee

Michelle Pualani: Yep. Sydney Sweeney. I've said it so many times over the past week.

Sydney Sweeney. Okay. And there's nothing wrong with her being white, blue-eyed blonde hair, which might be dye anyway. Like there's nothing wrong with her and how she is. And again, that campaign would've been. Totally fine and probably very well received had they not brought up the idea of genes being passed down, et cetera, like they chose that narrative and whether it got the response that they wanted to or not.

Who's to say now? I think that there's something. Really important to keep in mind as we approach these types of things, because I did see something about fashion, like if you have fashion [00:29:00] models, say you are in Sweden, there is a certain type of look and person from a, not just heritage, but geographical sense of someone's gonna look a certain way when they come from a certain area.

Same thing. If you go to Africa, same thing. If you go to China, same thing if you go to Korea, there's a certain type of look India that I do think it's beautiful to represent and to recognize, and so highlighting and leaning into a representation, so let's just say Oak Bluffs because that was all black people and someone can come out and say, well, there should have been diversity and representation.

In that ad in order to diversify the skin tone, the body size, the look, the feel, the whatever. But that ad was a representation of an area and a culture that was developed there around black people, and [00:30:00] they're feeling represented and associated with one another and seeing people who look like them ex.

Sell in school, in politics, in wealth building, in business ownership. And that told a very specific story. So we're not looking at that campaign and say, Hmm, I wish that they had thrown in some Chinese people, and I wish that they'd thrown in some white people in order to quote unquote diversify it. But the intention was very different and the representation was very different.

And what they were talking about was very different. Talking about heritage and legacy and pride and generations. And just the way of being in a certain area and what that looks like. Now when it comes to the Dunkin Donuts and the Sydney Sweeney ad is one, you only have one person. One person that is of celebrity value because they're both like, right.

Uh, the summer I turned pretty and the Gavin actor playing Jeremiah, he's very popular right now. And then Sydnee Sweeney, of course, with all, everything that she's done, [00:31:00] she has like over 25 million followers or something on Instagram. She has very well followed, very well, quote unquote liked. In America, I would say, or in our culture and in our society.

And so when you have just one person representing something that's supposed to be a brand that speaks to a lot of different type of people, I think that's when you come into an issue. But I also think that we are in a time of so much noise that brands are trying. Hoping, scheming to try to figure out how they can stand out from the crowd and really make a splash, because there's tons of money that goes into these campaigns.

Not to mention they're planned out way in advance. Dunking Donuts didn't see the Sydney Sweeney ad about genes and genetics and then say, Hey, Gavin, come in. Let's film this thing and then put it out around this time, and then add to the fire of genetics conversations. No, these are multi. Billion dollar, million, billion.

[00:32:00] I actually didn't look up Dunkin Donuts, but billions of dollars in revenue. Billions of dollars in. Valuation. And so the budgets that they're working with are ridiculous. The teams are huge and it's an extensive period of time that they've planned out these things. And so I think people just lose sight of that and lose track of that and also are incredibly mean.

Like there's just so much meanness happening in the space. Like I'm grateful that, I feel like the conversations that I feel like I've been able to start by putting out videos around this are positive. And I will say, I'll add this 'cause. I brought it up earlier in terms of the comments and things like that, is that I've always been nervous to create content because of getting certain types of comments or feedback or backlash, and I've had to kind of change my perspective on that and change the narrative for myself to release that fear and that limiting belief and allow myself to embrace.

One, I'm [00:33:00] gonna attract the type of person that who's gonna respond positively and compassionately. And two, I can handle any of the comments that come my way. Whether that is criticism or whether that is someone wanting to have a deeper conversation. I think that a lot of people, and someone actually commented and it, at first, it seems like the comment is a little abrasive or a little bit rude or a little bit defensive.

But if you respond in a more neutral and inquisitive way with them and help them see something different, their feedback and that response to my comment was actually like, yeah, I'm so sorry it came off that way. You know, I just don't really understand like what's happening here. And then asked a couple questions.

They asked a couple questions and was like, I tend to be def offensive or defensive when. Someone's expressing negative feelings about this. And so I think that a lot of times online we're moving through things really quickly and people are responding really rapidly, and a [00:34:00] lot of people have a knee jerk reaction.

So people are seeing a lot of negative things about this Sydney Sweeney deal. And so they're gonna be mean. It's like. Driving. You know how when you're driving and you have road rage and you're like yelling at the other drivers, you would never do that in person. Like you would never treat people that way.

And I think it's something that we should all remind ourselves is that even though we're behind the screen, we're dealing with other like real people on the other end. And that's all I really have to say about that.

Joanna Newton: I've, I've gotten in myself and knowingly so into several situations in my social media career of like angry hate comments. One of my Sydney Sweeney videos, I think it's up to like 4,000 comments like

Michelle Pualani: Holy cannoli. 4,000 comments on one video.

Joanna Newton: people what? Because what happens is when if like you get [00:35:00] that very. Mega heavy male crowd. If you get them to start commenting on your videos, the video gets sent to more of them and more of them, and they're literally just oddly enough, regurgitating what Fox News. Says about people like me, about liberal women, and the truth is, I think this video worse was worse than others.

This was like the first video I posted like that where I have my tattoo and I was getting like negative comments about women's with tattoos. Like, it's just wild. I'm, I'm making a video about trying to hold businesses accountable, billionaires, business owners accountable for putting out positive messaging into the world and get like your ugly in response.

There's no, there's no logic or or anything when someone goes. Because I'm saying like maybe we should hold billionaires accountable. I'm not saying I don't think the CEO of a [00:36:00] American Eagle is a billionaire, but you get what I'm saying, like very wealthy elite people. Are are, we should hold them accountable to, well, you're just ugly and jealous.

Right? And it's, it's wild. But, um, you know, when that happens, the weirdest thing that happens to me when that happens is when that's going on on my phone and I leave my house, especially if I leave my neighborhood where I don't know people, walk around and I see adult men with their children who. Like, and I, I live in a pre, uh, pretty heav, heavily like Republican area who are probably Trump supporters.

I think that could be the guy, like that could be the guy saying, you're just an ugly, woke, jealous liberal, right? He could just be a normal person walking down the street with his children, and I think there just is like, I actually feel a [00:37:00] lot of compassion for them. Like, like I know I, maybe I shouldn't because I'm getting yelled at and berated.

I mean, people saying horrible things. Some that get like denied by TikTok 'cause they're so bad. I think. These, of these people are being told by the media to think and feel certain things about me, and they're fighting against me instead of what we are all supposed to be doing as American citizens.

It's like holding the government and holding businesses accountable. We're supposed to vote. our votes and we're supposed to vote with our dollars for who we think is gonna like actually help us and protect us. And that's how like capitalism theoretically is supposed to work. But what happens is instead people are defending. The billionaires and defending the people in charge when we should be holding them accountable and instead thinking I'm the problem. woman on the internet saying like, Hey, and my takes on this thing have been pretty mild compared [00:38:00] to some I've seen. Instead of saying like, Hey, maybe we should take, take people, know, hold people accountable for this. And then they fight me. And I, and I think that's like sad, but I think it's something important to know about like human nature. We have this like hive mindset, right? We find we find our tribe and we wanna stick with them. And I think it, it takes a special kind of person to be open-minded there's good and bad on both sides, right?

Like, it's not, it's not so black and white and, um. you know, I don't know the point of all of that, what I was saying, but there is a reality when you go on the internet and you have opinions and you make a stand that you're going to get that backlash. But you're right, Michelle, like there is something to be said with like how you craft things to, to attract the right people.

But that being said. Sometimes even when you're careful, which I am, when you're [00:39:00] careful, if you spark the wrong nerve because woman with an opinion that's different than that of the president of the United States, you'll be attacked. Um, and that's just kind of a reality we put ourselves in. But for me, like I want to be a voice People and like say things when I see something that I think is wrong.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, I think it's just about the decision of how we choose to engage in our. Right, like. If you are listening and you are in the business space, you don't have to talk about Sydney Sweeney's ad with American Eagle. You don't have to talk about anything that's occurred over the past couple weeks. We do believe in and usually promote on the Click Tees podcast overall that as a personal brand, you should be representing your values.

Now, for a lot of people, that doesn't mean that you have to cross into the political. World now, obviously there's just been so much change over the past year with our politics and [00:40:00] with office and with the things that we're seeing happening in the US that it is hard for a lot of people to continue to go silent, you know, and not talk about these things, and so.

You are gonna see a lot of that, I think a lot more in people's personal brands and what they're talking about and, and everything else. But we just ultimately get to decide. We get to decide how we engage online and we can steer the conversation the direction that we want it to, and we can avoid certain topics, you know, and depending on who you're attracting, you know, some people could see that video and be like, oh yeah, I completely agree.

I'm totally in support. And other people will say, no, you're. Dumb or whatever the case is, and it's just you are opening yourself up to that vulnerability, and I think it's finding the way in which it's gonna work for you and also protecting yourself, because mental health is a really big part of that conversation.

When you're getting that much hate online, it can be really hard to internalize it and also feel [00:41:00] like, you know, when you're building a business online. You're creating content consistently where you're connecting with people online. You have your clients online. Sometimes it can feel like that world is very real, right?

Like that is the quote unquote real world. And all of these people's opinions of me and what they're saying about me are true, right? Like if you didn't have such a strong internal fortitude of. Who you are, what you stand in, what you believe in, and can see these people for what they are in terms of their projections and their difficulty.

And you're right, having probably been fed, you know, media and news that has led them to this place of narrow lens. Is that there are a lot of people who could be more affected by that. And I think we all have that sense of like, well, what if we get criticism? What if we get hate? What if we get trolls?

And I like to remember that everybody that I admire look up to. Also have [00:42:00] haters. You know, they also have people who say negative things about them, whether that's behind their back to their faces or online. And I saw this, I don't know if you've ever seen, but I forget which show it it's on. But celebrities read mean tweets about themselves.

I think it's so funny because here you have these ridiculously successful people in their career who, you know, everyone's so different, but whether they're a musician or a celebrity or a comedian or a producer, whatever, they've contributed something in terms of creation and they've usually put themselves in a position, again, of vulnerability by having fame or by having attention on them or anything else.

But one of my favorite ones is about Zendaya. And she's sitting there reading it and it says something to the effect of like, Zendaya's feet probably smell like Funions. And she just takes off her shoe, holds it up, which it's a, it's a red bottom shoe. So it's a what? [00:43:00] Manola. Blahnik. I think

Joanna Newton: Lou

Michelle Pualani: Louis Vuitton.

Joanna Newton: Are

Michelle Pualani: I thought that was Man

Joanna Newton: or man's bottoms? This shows

Michelle Pualani: Red bottom.

Joanna Newton: this

Michelle Pualani: I'm pretty sure.

Joanna Newton: brands.

Michelle Pualani: I'm pretty sure they're manola blondes. So anyway, and she smells it and she says it sells like success to me. And I just love. That perspective because even someone like Zendaya, who I think has created such a powerful, successful career for herself, I think from an ethical, personal lifestyle perspective, she's never really gone down the route of drugs, alcohol, conflict.

She doesn't have a huge, huh?

Joanna Newton: at least that we know

Michelle Pualani: At least we know of, but.

Joanna Newton: a good, uh, pr, PR person keeping

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, but I think she's taught Tuly, like she's not a big drinker and she just doesn't engage in a lot of that stuff. And she's chosen a lifestyle for herself. She's absolutely gorgeous, has done so many ridiculously beautiful shoots, and she's just a really good [00:44:00] person.

She does a lot of like nonprofit work, give backs and everything else. So I can see someone like her as. What I feel is like that is like the top of our society, like in terms of excellence. Like she does super great for herself. She's a really great person. She lives this life and there are people out there hating on her.

And I just think that we're in a world that independent of what you choose, what you do, you're going to receive some type of backlash. Obviously some larger than others, and. This was my takeaway from the entire past week and seeing all of these ads come out and seeing these people like 'cause, right?

Sydney Sweeney and American Eagle. Like theoretically, we should be going after the brand because this is a brand and business that put this out into the world. Now, Sydney Sweeney is getting a ton of heat for this as an individual, as a personal brand. So. My [00:45:00] takeaway from this entire experience is that if you have a business, if you're creating a platform, if you're building any type of presence with your personal brand, you have to figure out what are your values, what is authentic to your brand voice, commit to it and move forward.

Like you just have to keep moving forward and you have to stick to what you believe in and, and do that.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and I know we're talking about this today in like a very grand scheme, right? Talking about Sydney Sweeney and Zendaya and these huge, huge brands, American Eagle, all of these big brands. The reality is that like. Understanding yourself and having enough sense of self and thinking about that and the brand you put in the world.

It's important whether you have zero followers and you're just selling through like networking and traditional sales outlets. Whether you're creating content, whether you have a hundred followers or at. [00:46:00] Thousand followers. Having that strong sense of, of core self is so important. If you're trying to be a business owner, first of all, for everyone, it's important, but I think especially for business owners who are going out and paving a different path, like you will get hate. But that hate might not even come from online, right? That might come from people you know? And for me, I've been building a very different life for myself, for me and my family. When my husband decided to be a stay-at-home dad, we received direct hate from people we knew. When I decided to start a business, I had family members laugh at the idea that my business could make over a hundred thousand dollars in a single year. My business has made well over a million at this point, right? And not this year, but like in total. And so if I internalize those comments and I let them stop me. From doing the things that I want in [00:47:00] life, I would not be where I am today. I would not be able to take a whole afternoon to fill my podcast episode with Michelle and get it out in the world.

I would not be able to live a life where me and my family are home together all day, which is amazing. It puts me in a position where I can work really hard and get to see my family and have relationships with my family. I have made choices that go against the status quo, gotten hate from that both online. And from real people in my life, have had to say, have enough security in myself to say I'm gonna do it anyway. And some days are easier or harder than others, but I think that that's how you grow a successful business and a successful business that you love, that you wanna wake up and do every day that you want to be a part of.

When you have a strong enough sense of self to not let the haters, whoever they are, like affect you negatively.

Michelle Pualani: Yep. Haters gonna hate. And I think it's so important that we find our internal [00:48:00] fortitude and find our lives outside of the digital space, right? Like we talk so much about marketing and content creation and online digital platforms, but. Get outside, like take a walk. Like if you're dealing with that, that sometimes like shit storm of emotion that comes up and that spiraling thought pattern of how people are responding to you or the criticism or your worry about judgment or fear of what's gonna take place is like go to the beach, go to a park.

Go talk to real people. Go to a cafe, meet with a friend, like sit down and drink a beverage that you love. Have a nice meal, like pull yourself out of that place. Read a book, do something else. Like just get yourself out of it because that.

Joanna Newton: pretty with Michelle.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, watch the summer. I turn pretty, I am watching it actually.

I am loving that. They're releasing one. This is great. They're releasing one episode a week, like through September, so the [00:49:00] entire third season is not just dumped. And I actually really love that they've made this choice. So you can't just binge watch the entire season, which is a really bad habit that I feel like we, as a society, myself included, have gotten into because of Netflix and because of our streaming platforms.

That never used to be the case. I did not grow up binge watching. 8, 10, 20 episodes of a freaking show back to back, to back to back. That's not the way that we're supposed to engage in things. And so the fact that they release a new episode every single week. At first I was like, Ugh, that's stupid. But now I'm like, actually, this is genius.

This is one extends the interest of it. Now there's more conversation online. What's gonna happen next week? I predict that this is gonna be the thing and. It has something for, you know, like we have something to look forward to and. It just, it makes it more engaging. So the point is, is get out. Live your life.

Remember that you are a [00:50:00] whole person and that your marketing and your business is just an aspect of what you bring to the world. It is not a representation of your value as a human being. It is completely independent from that. So thank you so much for joining us today on the Click Tease podcast. Hit that subscribe button.

Share with a friend who needs a reminder that he comments online does not. Make up who they are as an individual, and we'll see you next time.